Tapping into the Influencer Economy to Make a Billion Dollar Brand with Ryan Williams

Welcome to Make More Marbles. My name is Brad Hart and we're here to interview the game changers, the future makers, the co collaborators and creators who are here to collaborate with one another towards a better future for all of us. Enjoy the show. We've got a great guest coming up for you right now. Welcome to Make More Marvels. My name is Brad Hart and today I get another chance to interview Mr. Ryan Williams. How are you, Ryan?

Brad, what's up? Pumped to be here and make more marbles?

Yes, sir. I'm stoked. I mean, we tried to do a podcast and it didn't quite work out and then we actually ended up just geeking out for like an hour on, on a phone call about all the things that we're working on and we ended up having a few more conversations. I got to know you really well and now, yeah, like now we got to have a real podcast and I feel like I know you super well. So I want to bring that what you're doing the beautiful stuff into the world, L.A. sarcasm at all. He made a comment before the show that my haircut didn't look super good. Then I had headphone hair.

Your haircut looks wonderful.

Thank you.

And I think that, yeah, it's almost like we did like a pre call during that when we had the botched audio. So now we're going to really over deliver for the listeners and just a.

Little behind the scenes. Like, I don't always get to do the amount of research I want to do on people beforehand. Sometimes I do and I have every minute that I possibly can. I do, absolutely. But like, for example, when I first started doing this podcast, I thought the CEO of Heard Galactic was actually like a mid level VP until about 5 minutes before I got on the. In the interview and I'm like, oh my God, I'm about to interview the CEO of Virgin Galactic.

Hey.

Who has questions about the future? Facebook goes crazy. It was like a lot of fun. Had I known for weeks or even a month beforehand that it was him, I probably would have freaked out a lot more. So it's kind of good not to know.

Sometimes I think, yeah, I do. Like, ignorance is bliss sometimes because. And then you come in without having any baked questions. Especially when you feel like a big egomaniac and you're interviewing someone, everyone, like kisses the ring and then you act like, wait a second, who are you again? Like, I don't know who you are. And like, makes them stay on their toes.

Exactly, exactly. So let's kind of just roll down the punchline. Let's get people clear just to orient for people on the show, you know, who are we talking to? Ryan Williams is a freaking genius in a lot of ways. I'm just gonna say that unequivocally. It's an opinion.

Yeah.

But it's really true.

We have one thing in common. We agree that I am a genius.

He's basically a genius and God's gift to humanity.

I'm happy to agree with you, and.

You'Re all very fortunate to be listening to him right now. But I'd like to really ground that in story and I'd like to ground that in a way that people really get it. Because ultimately people look up to you for successes, but they'll really resonate with your failures because most people can't relate to success. Most people can relate to failure. I think everybody can relate to failure.

Yeah, totally. Failure is definitely something that you have to tackle and embrace with your weaknesses becoming strengths in the long run. But oftentimes that takes a long time to settle. And, you know, my background is in marketing, business development and collaboration with influencers. Was an early employee at a company called machinima.com which is based in Los Angeles and West Hollywood and just recently sold to Warner Brothers for a hundred million dollars. Last year. I was the first marketing person they hired. And we helped launch to market Minecraft, which is, you know, a small game at the. At the time. And we developed a marketing strategy for it with Influencer, collaborations with big YouTubers that were in our network. And it blew my mind when it was acquired for $2.5 billion a couple years later, considering we had the games creator. Yeah, Notch, exactly. Like in our office when he was pre egomaniac phase. We were joking before that. Notch, for those of you don't know, is a creator of Minecraft, which Microsoft now owns. And he bid on a house versus Jay Z and Beyonce that has a giant gumball machine in the lobby of the like $27 million. Then he tweets out again. He majority majorly owned this company for, you know, Minecraft and the video game that most of us have played. And he tweeted out that he can't date women because they can't deal with his fame. So he is so unhappy now that he's blaming women for his problems of dating. It's not on him, of course, being out of touch with reality, but when we work with him, he was just a small guy in town from Sweden, and it just blew my mind that we could help launch this game. And so, yeah, I've been a stand up comedian in a former life, worked in film and entertainment, and now I'm an author, wrote the Influencer Economy book. And you know, my bio, I'm not going to list everything now, but, yeah, that's the story. Yeah.

And Ryan has just been involved in so many incredible launches and incredible brands and bringing things that were great ideas and making them really palatable. And I love talking with him because he really pokes holes in a lot of the assumptions that you make as a creator, as an influencer, as an idea. You know, that's the economy we live in now.

Right.

You got to be able to come to something with a sense of sobriety and really understand, like, okay, cool, yes, this might be a good idea, but let's really stress test it. Let's get out in the world and stress test it some more. Because if you can nail it, if you can get it right, then it'll scale to billions.

Sobriety is the key word. Yeah. Because a lot of us, like, I grew up in Des Moines, Iowa, and I always say, like, never build in a silo, Never build by yourself. Never build in a cornfield where no one's around. Like, you can't just like, there's two things to think about. You have to share or collaborate to get your ideas seen. And I don't want you sharing. Sharing is like Facebook, where you're frictionally just expanding people, you know, getting content they necessarily don't want. But collaborating is different. Collaboration is when you opt in and someone actually buys what you're selling or they want to collaborate or barter or work together. And you're not just going like, willy nilly. People always ask, like, oh, do I want to go? And, you know, just tell everyone to pitch my idea. No, you don't. But you want to collaborate with people, but you want to make sure they opt in and they want to help you and they want to buy in. So ultimately, you know, I think about the Internet like three different zeitgeist. You have 10%, 1% and 89%. And those are the subgroups of people you're going to work with. And the 10% of your community is your networkers. Those are the people that are in your network. Their weak ties are strong ties. They're people that you can stress test with early adopters. I call them like the bar regulars at happy hour on a Saturday night. So they're the people that adopted Twitter early on when they were techies in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, New York City. And these networkers really helped Twitter, using that as an example, grow, but it had a ceiling. And Twitter didn't really start taking off until they got celebrity influencers involved like Ashton Kutcher and Larry King and Lady Gaga. And that's like the next segment. So after you get your 10%, the networkers, you get the 1% influencers. And this author named Scott Belsky, who wrote a great book, Making Ideas Happen, which I highly recommend you read after checking out the Influencer Economy. It's a book about saying that he says there's no idea meritocracy and the best ideas don't win. And I'm a firm believer, if you like to use your terminology, stress testing that if you get Those networkers, those 10% of the market early, get feedback, they're the bar regulars, they come for happy hour, then you pitch the influencers and ultimately they, you want to get buy in from them, then 89% of the market will come, it really will. And once you get to the right influencer partnerships along the way, and all.

You need is one, right, all you need is one big name to sign off on something and say, yeah, I believe this, I want this to win in the world. And that brings you above the line of super credibility which Peter Demandis talks about. You know, when he launched the X Prize, $10 million prize for the first, the original one, there's multiple now, was can you make a spaceship that will take off and land to space to the earth twice in two weeks? And that was the challenge. And whoever won that got 10 million bucks. He only had about half a million bucks raised when he launched the challenge, right? And that allowed him to go and say, okay, now I'm committed and go get the buy in for the people like, you know, the chief of staff at NASA and this one and that one, the other one to come on stage, John Glenn and all of them and say, hey, we're behind this mission, we want this to happen, we need it to happen. Because it's basically launched privatized spaceflight, which now we know is a thing. And Elon Musk took it to the next level. But basically knowing that if you can get above the line of super credibility, you win that from there on out, the leverage gets a lot easier to create. So it's like getting those 10% doing that hard work, getting it right, stress testing the idea, failing forward until you can get to that one influencer and make that one pitch, and that's where everything goes. And then overwhelming that Problem with solutions.

Right.

You don't need just any influencer.

Yeah, sorry.

Just, you know, it doesn't have to be Oprah, it doesn't have to be Tony Robbins, any one of them.

I would actually recommend not leveraging them. I think, you know, I mentioned the 1 percenters to make it easier for people to understand. But really I want you to ignore the mega celebrity 1 percenters. Like I call them the zombie tweeters. They're the people that just tweet your product out and they don't care. There's no passion, they're not collaborating with you. And ultimately like you don't want the walking dead tweeting about your product. You want to find lower level influencers like the Tony Robbins for your industry or the Oprah for your business. People always, you know, that I work with that want to book themselves on podcasts, say, oh, I want to get on, you know, Tim Ferriss show. And it's like, no, don't worry about that. Like find the Tim Ferriss of your industry, find out who interviews Tim Ferriss on their podcast. And there's a lot more alternatives to just going after the mega celebrity in your business right away. Because ultimately you don't want to get no's. You don't want to get rejection hurts. You know, I cry when I get rejected. I'd rather get maybes. And I ideally want yeses and even getting ignored is okay. But yeah, you don't want to pitch people that are, you know, mega, mega celebrities. Because first of all, who cares? Like it's not gonna change my mind. Brad, if you have on your website that Tony Robbins endorsed you, I mean, Cassie Robbins endorses a lot of people, right? But if you have like three people I've heard of that are very well respected, like Cameron Harold, I saw you had him on your show. And dhh, people like that, like that matters more to someone like me because I'm your real ideal collaborator.

Absolutely. And you can do a lot more with the rising stars than the people already on top.

Right?

Because the people on top, they're, they're constantly in defense mode. They're constantly blocking and tackling, trying to keep away from them. The rising stars, they still want to collaborate, they still want to win with you.

Yeah. They say the mega celebs are like, yeah, no, no, no, I can't do it. Your point about blocking and tackling. But what I found out was very interesting. Can I tell you about the book blurbs for my influencer economy? Because I learned psychologically so Much about collaborating with really busy, famous, well known people in your business. I use my podcast as a platform to connect with and build community. And I love talking to folks. I'm a former stand up comedian. And then I had to research the book and I had these influencers from my podcast and I leveraged all that. And then finally the book's coming out like some two years later from these people I've interviewed, many of whom I have not kept up with. Right? Because you can't just ping Seth Godin and be like, hey, bro, I got you a smoothie coupon. Go to, go to Smart and Final right now and pick up strawberry daiquiri or something. Because these people don't have time, so you got to hit them where it counts. And so what I would always say to people like Adam Grant or Willie Geist at the Today show, all these people that were in my network, I want to book blurbs from. And I would write them nice notes and say, no worries. If not, after every ask, I'd say, can you please write a book blurb? If you are interested, let me know. I'd be happy to send it to you in the mail. Like, you know, I'm writing Adam Grant, who's this professor at Wharton, wrote this great book, give and take. And you know, I write no worries. If not, you know, nope. Because I don't want to put pressure on these people, right? Because they're so busy they don't have time to say no sometimes. And all of them said yes. I went like 4 out of, actually 4 out of 5 people. Seth Godin said he was too busy to read the book, but he did give me his address and I sent it to him. So ultimately I got all the blurbs I wanted, but I took the pressure off. And that's why I feel like it's a big relief to people because I don't want to have to give you a yes or no if it's not the right time. And I'd rather do a deal with you in a year than burn the bridge right now with having you, like, write a book for me, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that big of a deal, right?

An expert, and ultimately it's an abundance philosophy versus scarcity philosophy. If you believe you have to get this person and it's got to be that way, then you're more likely to fail and you're more likely to alienate that person. Whereas if you just say, okay, well, I need an influencer like that, I've categorized what I need, and if I can have 20 possibilities and get five, I'm in really good shape. It takes the pressure off the whole system.

Right. You diversify. Right?

Exactly. And ultimately, like, certain people at certain times are going to be busy, and they would have said yes at other times, but that's just the time you're launching your thing, so you got to have that kind of capacity in the system to handle your request. But everybody wants the thing. They want to hang out with Tim Ferriss. I get hit up because I spent time with him in Africa about eight years ago, seven years ago. We don't really keep in contact, but I get hit up constantly by people who want to be connected to Tim Ferriss. And I'm like, I'm sorry, bro. Like, he's off doing him and I'm off doing me, and never the twain shall meet. And we're cool, but it's not like, you know, I need to bother him all the time. I could reach out to him. We don't have anything in common anymore.

It's so funny that you say that, because I got a email yesterday for someone who wanted to meet someone who I'm friends with, that I did a live event with in la, and I talked to this person in a year, and she's like, hey, I did this. I'm doing this podcast. And it's like, no, no, I'm not gonna introduce you to this person. If you would have kept the relationship going with me, like, for the last year and be like, hey, Ryan, I like launching a podcast and even ask me for advice, like, stroke my ego, Keep me in the loop. Like, that's the thing about reaching influential people is you have to have some social grace to, like, acknowledge that you respect them and that you respect their time and who they are. It's just funny. Yeah, you get pitches all the time. Like, literally, people write Dear Influencer, comma, like, can so and so come on your podcast? Can I send you this book? Can I get you this product? It's like, you are the laziest pitchers ever. Like, people are so lazy and they farm it out to someone in the Philippines, they're paying $5 an hour to not put any thought in their pitches. It's like, why are you handing your brand over to someone who you don't even know? Right?

And it only takes a few cycles of doing that to realize it doesn't work. And it's just adding to more noise. And there's no excuse. There's a million and one podcast saying this Exact thing, guys.

Yeah, get it here.

Now grock it, understand it. Put it in a little compartment, stick in your back pocket. Don't pitch in a way that's not valuable. Don't pitch in a way that's not specific, not considerate to the people that you're speaking to. Pretend they're human beings for a minute. Pretend like you're in their shoes. Take yourself out of yourself for a minute and think about how would you like to receive this, if at all? Maybe it's not the right.

And it's okay if it's not the right fit. Walk away. Yeah, put it down. Put the laptop down and walk away. I always think about, like, you gotta figure out what the give is and what's the offer. So what are you gonna give this person? And then what are you gonna offer them? Because ultimately, at the end of the day, like, if you're not gonna give me anything, what's the point, right? And if there's no offer in the long run, then also I may not be interested. So, yeah, it's. It's all about, like, what's the give in the short term, what's the offer in the long run? And once you figure that out, you may think like, holy shit, I've spent my whole life thinking I need to get this person to acknowledge me. And they're actually the wrong person, you know, for my. My credibility and my brand and my company, you know.

My best friend growing up. We grew up two houses away from each other, and I was. We were best friends until I was about 24, 25 when we fell out. But I remember he gave me some really great advice because I was like, geeking out, that I was going to meet Tim at the time. And that actually kind of ties into that story, is that he's like, man, don't try to be Tim Ferriss. Try to be the best Brad Hart you can be, or something to that effect. And I didn't really get that until many years later. I was like, oh, I'm still trying to be that guy, or trying to be this guy, or trying to be this woman, or trying to be, blah, blah, blah. It wasn't until I went all in on being me as best I could be that things started to really expand. And it's just age and growing up and all that stuff. I get that now. But at the time, it just. It was so foreign to me that, no, I have to do it this way because this is how everybody's doing it and they're successful. I gotta be Successful. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Well, it's like the social media bubble, you know? Well, the so and so is on Necker island right now with Richard Branson. How did they get there? I mean, I'm cooler than them. Like, why would Richard Branson want to hang out and necker with them? And you're like, oh, my God, log out, put the computer down, walk away. Stop comparing yourself to everyone else. Because that's where I, like, take a. I've taken a Facebook sabbatical the last six months, and I can't do the rat race of, like, you meet someone at a conference, then they tag you, and they tag all their friends, and they, you know, tag how awesome they are, who they're hanging out with, and you're like, this isn't like sixth grade. I hated many points of the superficialities of sixth grade. And I'm not in sixth grade anymore yet. That's what Facebook, you know, makes us come down to in the lowest common denominator.

Yeah. And actually, the Necker example is kind of funny because Nekker and Mosquito, Richard's two islands down there in the Caribbean got destroyed in this last hurricane.

Oh, they did?

Yeah. So you could actually go to Necker island right now. It'd be very cheap. And when it's high season and it was not destroyed, you could go, you know, it's 40 grand or whatever. It didn't. Has nothing to do with whether Richard likes you or not. He's gonna network with everybody. That's what the islands for.

Play. Exactly.

If you got the money, you can go, and that's it.

It's almost like buying a product placement.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, you're the product, and the placement is Necker island. And maybe he'll play tennis with you. And the only reason you do it is put it on Instagram, Facebook, and every social media channel just so your friends back home are like, wow, that guy's crushing it.

A way better strategy is to be world class at something that would want. That people like, that would want to align with you anyway. You know, I'll just give my own Richard Ranson story as an example. Like, when I met Richard, I had all kinds of worthiness issues, right? And I didn't, you know, know that I was gonna be pitched by him to follow up on something, and I just totally bungled it and didn't do it right. But he was really geeking out on his 3D print that was geeking out about. And I was like, oh, cool. We actually have something we could, you know, Add value to each other's lives about, he's got giant piles of money. And I've got this cool idea and let's have the brand new pair of roller skates discussion. Except I wasn't prepared to do that. I did that. Blew my damn mind. It was a great lesson on how not to do things, but ultimately, I wasn't ready.

Yeah.

And it's kind of funny. Like, you think that you're ready for opportunities until they actually present themselves, and.

Then you have to, like, level it in your own mind that it's not that big of a deal that you screwed it up.

Right. And it, you know, came full circle seven years later, all that good stuff. But it's all good now. Back then, I just wasn't ready. And just knowing that there are so many great opportunities that aren't. That there are so many great opportunities that aren't the. What you perceive to be the pinnacle of success or what you are being trained by society or Facebook or social media to think is the pinnacle of success. As soon as you can let go of that, you can create a great story of your own. And now people reach out of the woodwork to connect with me for all different reasons, because I've been the best that I can be. And you can do that, too. Ryan's done that. The reason people that want to connect with Ryan now is because he is that rising star.

Right.

And he has done really cool stuff, and he has been a part of projects that changed the world in their way. And you can do that, too. You just got to start on something, go really deep and narrow and focus on something.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people also, they undervalue themselves and they undervalue the story of the experience. And so they don't think, like, you know what? I did something really fucking cool, and I was the lowest person on the totem pole, but I still was there for that cool thing, you know, for me, like with Minecraft, I wasn't CEO of our startup. I wasn't a venture capitalist. I didn't own the majority of the company. I was our director of marketing. I was senior marketing person there, and I did the marketing launch plan to help us collaborate with Minecraft to make it go viral. But ultimately, it's like people undervalue their own stories and. And you have a podcast. I have a podcast. We hear a lot of BS stories that are told really well, and I call them inauthentically authentic. Like, they're people that are so damn inauthentic. But they can tell an authentic story. And we think that they're like telling us the same. I mean, we think that we're impressed, but they tell the same story every time. It's like going on a talk show. And so I feel like, you know, a lot of folks I meet and then I help solve problems for, like, they don't know how to tell their story and they undervalue it. And they think like, to your point, Brad, like, people are starting doing stuff right now, listening to this that are kicking ass at it, but they have some sort of imposter syndrome or they feel like they don't deserve the attention, or at worst they let other people tell the story and take the credit. Because I used to get overlooked for job promotions all the time. I got laid off from a job at Disney Big Corporation because my boss, I took. My boss took all the credit for the work I was doing and I got laid off. I cried in my car. No shame in admitting that. I then got drunk on margaritas with a coworker down the street from the Burbank office in la. And then I actually got a better job in two weeks at Machinima, the company I described earlier that, you know, we got acquired for $100 million. I got more stock from that, got more from the sale. All these great things happened because I got laid off. But ultimately, you know, for people, you have to understand that, you know, your self awareness in these modern day environments, like you can't discount your experiences and you can't undersell yourself and realizing that what you go through with both ups and downs is you. And I've been reading a lot more about vulnerability the last couple months and I'm just very fascinated by that whole word because I think it's overused and underused. And I think vulnerability is like, it's a sign of leadership, but it used to be a sign of weakness. And now we're at this point where you can, as a man especially, you can be yourself and admit your failings. Like you just told us that eight years ago, you fucked up a couple big opportunities. You're not beating yourself up over it. You've come to accept it. And that's where now I think as leadership goes, or people building companies or ideas, it's like, try not to sell yourself too short. But then also consider that maybe being honest about things that aren't going well and all that moving forward is your, your semblance of like putting your one foot in front of the other to succeed. Yeah.

And that's really interesting how life works, right? You talked about the story of you getting fired and that was horrible for you at the time. But then it led to your biggest breakthrough and now, you know, the life that you have today and you can't see the whole story, right? You can't zoom out on your whole timeline of the way we experience reality and be like, oh, yeah, that's totally going to make sense in a few weeks or years or months or whatever, you know, but you're really like the author and the read reader of your book at the same time, right? The life story of you is happening now and you can't see the ending, nor would you want to if you knew how your life is. Why the hell would you want to read that book?

I don't want to know about that.

Right, exactly. So, you know, just accepting that every single chapter that you're in is exactly a chapter, being grateful for that and just focusing on what's the next best thing. What's the next best, you know, of what I know now, what's the next best decision I can make? What's the best, highest and best service I can be to humanity right now, myself and others. And when you think like that, life shows up to support you in ways which you never ever could have anticipated. No matter how smart you are, no how much you strategize, no matter how much you think, I got to figure it out or I'm gonna do this and get here and do that. It's. It's more magical if you allow it to be magical and just keep. So it's really cool.

And sometimes it takes years to figure it out. Like, it's not like a. Because if you fail at something, it's. You're like, this is terrible. Because the job of Machinima actually kind of sucked too. Like, it was terrible. I got a raise and better stock, but I still hated my boss, you know, I hope he's not listening. I doubt he will because he doesn't really understand technology, even though he was a gaming company. And that's where, like, I struggle with depression. In my early 20s, doing stand up comedy in Washington D.C. and I had, you know, beer cans all over my desk with comedy note cards and dishes stacked up for weeks and, you know, my kitchen and linens on the floor. I never made my bed and I struggled to breathe and get out of the house. And comedy helped me, in a way, self actualize and get real feedback. I call it my jumping out of an airplane moment where I really came to my senses. And was like, holy shit. I'm much better at marketing and behind the scenes. And I can pack comedy clubs with a hundred people where Comedy Central hosts will perform and headline and I won't pay them anything. And then they're texting me. Why can't they get anyone to come to their neighborhood shows? Because they can't market. So it allowed me to pivot my career, and it was hard for me to explain my career in comedy during job interviews because, like, what the fuck, dude? You went to college, Ryan. Why are you doing comedy and making no money? Like, oh, you must come from a rich family. Or, oh, you must be lazy. Oh, you must be a slacker. And so it took me probably like 10 years to think like, okay, actually this comedy stuff helps me be a presenter, helps me be a public speaker, helps me do better sales pitches. I can actually make people laugh more intentionally when I tell people I'm a comedian because they have permission to laugh whenever I'm in a meeting. And it took me forever. So that's another thought, you know, based on what you're saying is like, these things happen and there's a reason that you don't know the outcome for. But also understanding that they take a long time to sometimes work themselves through.

I was a bartender and an emt. You know, being in emergency medicine and seeing people almost die a lot and trying to prevent that provided so much more clarity on the nonsense that I deal with on a day to day basis.

Yeah. What about bartending?

Bartending, I think, gave me the ability to connect with anybody anytime, hammered or not, no matter where they were from. Because I worked in Irish bar in Times Square. Talk about meeting everybody in very short window, and everybody needs a pint. Everybody needs to be happy and everybody needs a shot. And everybody needs this now. And it's got to happen immediately. You got to keep all these people happy. How do you do that? In a very clear and concise way. So now when I podcast, it's actually really easy for me to come up with great conversational threads to pull on.

I totally could see that. And you're dealing with someone who's not angry at you because they're drunk after six pints and pissed that there's a line. I mean, that's the funny thing is my comedy, like, imagine me. I'm in, like, your. The visual you just created was great. Like, everyone needs a drink right now. There's a line like, imagine me, I'm fresh out of college. You could smoke in bars. I'm in Baltimore Maryland, my first open mic night. It's $2 minimum, Bud Lights, so people are already paying like 10 bucks just to get in the front door. They're eating greasy chicken wings, smokes in the air. I get up and every comedian has their little set list on their beer coaster. I put my beer down, super nervous. I forget my second joke, forget my third joke, my fourth joke. People are heckling me, calling me awful names that I don't want to even repeat right now. I'm so demoralized, I don't even get through my set. I walk off the stage, right? So now imagine me, I'm speaking at Google in February with a bunch of geeks that like technology and games and marketing and biz dev. That's like. I mean, a joyful occasion. I don't have any chicken wings, smoke in the air, or water down beers. And people used to sit like this and, like, make me laugh, you know, and they'd be so mad if you didn't make them laugh and just so rude. So to your point about, like, yeah, you're. You're. Now you're hosting a podcast. No one's asking for a pint. No one's drunk. No one's in line. Like, life is a lot easier now, like, paying your dues that way.

But you had to, right? If I didn't have this, I wouldn't have this, right? If and when you can be grateful for your painful experiences in the moment. It sucked. We made good money. I'm not gonna hate on it, but, you know, good money, what is that?

Right?

That's relative, too. At the time, it was awesome. It allowed me to live in Manhattan and pay my bills, and I had money left over at the end of the day, and I'd stumble out of bars at. At nine in the morning drunk and go on with my day. And people, you know, wouldn't know any wiser. Actually, they did. I was covered in grenadine and wearing a tuxedo at nine in the morning.

What was the bar?

It's called, oh, lunnies on 45th street between six every.

My old comedy bar was Nanny O' Brien's was an Irish pub in D.C. oh, yeah.

Irish people, man, they're fun. And I was the outsider, and I'm Irish, but I was American, so I wasn't good enough for their.

Big difference. I totally get it. Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland.

Oh, it's huge. Yeah. And, like, I got so good I could recognize where people were from, like, what county and what their accents.

County Cork.

Yeah. So that was a really interesting experience for me, but it taught me a few things, is like, you can belong and not belong. People you want to belong with, and you don't want to belong with. There's rabbit holes you want to go down and you don't want to go down. I mean, some of those guys, you know, unfortunately, you're still tending that same bar. And now I have a life that I chose to create through a lot of ups and downs. You know, finance, real estate, starting companies, failing a lot, losing, making a lot of money, finding myself, you know, just. Just completely. Just tearing it down every time and just be like, nope, gotta grow. Nope, gotta grow. And just. Just stepping up consistently and wanting to die a lot and wanting to stop a lot and wanting to quit a lot. If I knew how fucking hard it was to start a business or a hedge fund or any that shit before I started, and how many fucking cycles of loneliness and terror and fear I'd have to go through, I would have never started.

Yeah, I agree.

Life is a book that you get to read and write at the same time. You don't know what all the chapters are going to hold.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd recommend my business path to people. Parts of it, yeah, but not like the whole. I mean, risk is great, but to what end, Right? I mean, that's where people now, like, I feel like it's interesting, right, Because I feel like if you think about celebrity right now, like, Richard Branson or Arianna Huffington are like celebrities that people in our generation. But the more I talk to, you know, people that read my book that are in their, like, early 20s, they. They don't. They don't look at celebrity like we do. Their celebrities are like very niche celebrities. It's like very specific people that they follow that are, like, doing YouTube videos, podcasting, whatever, but they're not like global celebrities. And I feel like when you think about Richard Branson, like, he's exhausting. Like, his life is exhausting. Yeah, sweet. He has half naked models, you know, driving with him on jet skis in Necker island or what used to be Necker island or area. Huffington is internationally known. Well, you know, knows everyone. But, like, what do they have to sacrifice to really do it? And I feel like in a lot of ways, like, that type of entrepreneurial story, like, isn't. It's like being proved out that maybe that's not the best model for people to follow.

Well, and then you look at it, it's really interesting to see how many People believe it's all them.

Right.

They see the leader of an organization like do we all want to be the Bill Gates, the Richard Branson, the Elon Musk. But they don't really pay attention to the fact that there's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people that go into creating that story. Sure, they were the starter and the visionary and they, they become the public figure that gets a lot of the credit. But guess how many people had to be involved in order for that story to come true?

Right.

And ultimately you can also create that by being certain and by, you know, working on yourself and by growing the team around you and by supporting people. And you just don't see all that stuff behind the scenes because that's not the. That they portray. But it's all happening.

Yeah, it's manicured.

Like we can break down Richard a little even further. He's a creator, right? Just like Elon, just like Bill Gates and several others who have created something on the strength of their ideas alone. And his move, if you know enough about him, you read enough of his books, you spend enough time around him. He's got two assistants through which he runs 400 companies. You know, he starts a company, he's got Virgin as the brand. Right. He goes to the second in command of his top competitor, he says, hey, can I hire you? Come work for Virgin, we'll make it cool. And we'll do this piece and we'll do this piece. And this is how we're gonna be different, is that we're serve people differently. And they go and create a Virgin brand.

Yep.

On that thing. And they compete in that niche. And then he backs the hell off. And through his assistance, the two assistants that run his entire life, he makes sure that they are supported and gets the hell out of their way. Money, resources, people, etc. And that's his whole move. That's how he started companies, many of.

Which have failed, right? They totally have.

And then those companies. Yeah, then those companies have a mandate that within a year they have to be self sustaining or he's going to cut it building an orchard at a very big level.

Yeah, that's interesting because he's got a lot of bad ideas. Like the Virgin gaming never took off. Like he had a professional gaming league, I remember. And yeah, he's failed a lot. But that's where it's all about image, manicuring image. Image is like the most important thing. And that. What I hate are people that. I hate the word hustle. I think it's like, the most trying, hackneyed, tried word ever. Because I don't care how much, like, effort you put into work, just work. Just show me the result. You know, let me in the journey if it's interesting or entertaining. But, like, just don't tell me you're up at 5am hustling. Like, there's nothing more obnoxious to me than people grinding it out and telling you how hard they're working. Because guess what? That's called work. And I think that what even is worse about that is people that sell you on this whole grinding and hustling mentality. Then get a bunch of disciples of people that think that's how you be successful. And I don't know about you, I'd rather be, like, working less hours and making more opportunity for myself than working more hours and having the same opportunity. I mean, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that's what most people would rather do. So, like, just working to work is so stupid. Like, you need life balance, and it.

Doesn'T take talent to be busy.

Yeah.

And yeah, at first it's like you got to do stuff like, because nobody cares a shit who you are, what you've done. Like, you just got to do something, anything, and do that hard and you'll get good at it. And ideally, you'll make enough money to pull yourself up out of your, you know, oh, my God, I have more month at the end of my money funk and actually do something that matters. So you got to get there, right? That's got to happen. That's a phase, that's a gear, but it's first gear, right? Just get the car moving. But then to shift up, it's actually about what you're not doing. It's about how you focus on what you are the best at, what is the best and highest use of your time. And based on those skill sets of doing a lot of stuff that didn't work out, knowing that these are the things I love, these are things I'm great at, these are things I could be world class at if I really go all in. And here's my not to do list. That's been huge for me. I run three companies now. I can't be everywhere at once. Something's going wrong all the time. I can't be emotionally affected by that all the time, right? And I need systems and processes and people in place, incentivized in such a way that the things that I do to add value to people, the systems that are available to serve people, can Run without me. Because now I have reached the bottleneck. It's not about what I can do. I can do a lot. It's what I, what I don't do. It's my not to do list. And that's the next level of evolution. So you need that mentorship and support that's at that level or above in order to get there and keep going. So when people say hustle, I look at it as like, oh, you're in first gear.

Okay, cool. Yeah.

When you're ready to go to second or third gear, let me know.

And you're selling first gear. It's like a starter kit and people need first gear.

Yeah, first gear versus sitting on your ass and playing video games. And nothing wrong with video games, but doing nothing of productive value to society is gonna keep you there forever.

Right.

But here's the total is it starts to compound too. Just like, you don't have to floor it to go 10 miles faster in fifth gear, when you're going 70 miles an hour to go to 80 miles an hour, it's a very small little touch. You start to experience that in your life as well. As you level up, as you shift gears, it takes less effort to go further faster.

I agree. Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. First gear, you're just starting to rev up your engine.

I like it. I like it. We should talk about it on a podcast sometime.

Yeah, I think so. It's a good idea because I wrote this article about how I was like, for the love of God, stop telling me how much you hustle. I used to go south by southwest all the time and it was like, oh, we're grinding, we're building the product. We're launching next month. We're working 20, you know, 12, 14 hour days and I'm in the office, I'm sleeping there. And you're like, I'm so not impressed. I know people like that, they want that aura. Or like rise and grind hashtag. And I think it's going down a little bit. Like, I think that whole era is hopefully winding down. But I mean, everyone wants to work smarter. It's like, not harder. I mean, I don't know who wants to work harder. I don't know anyone that really like, oh, I need to work hard. Unless you're lonely. Because I think sometimes if you work hard, like if it's Saturday night and I'm like, ah, you know, my wife's asleep, I'm by myself, I'm going to outwork people because you know, but for me, that's more like clarity. It's like, okay, I can organize my thoughts. There's no pressure. There's no deadlines or distractions. But I think some people actually do are lonely and they just want to work a lot because they don't really have a lot of interpersonal relationships or enough to do. So that's all they know how to do. And then it really reinforces them to be more socially challenged.

Yeah. And then they attribute all their success to hustle. And we got a new generation of hustlers. And they say, no, you just have to. You have to beat yourself to death for 10 years and then you can be successful. It's like, no, if you're as happy and connected and beautiful as possible and living your truest and best version of yourself right now, and then working from that place, you're going to be way more effective and get way more done than if you ever. Or to hustle and kill your health and your balance.

Oh, yeah, anything.

For the first three hours of the day, I routinely guard that time like a frickin pit bull because I know I need to be in the best state I possibly can be consistently every day. And that is not always the same. I don't always wake up feeling great. And if I'm gonna do a whole day of podcasting, you better damn well believe that. I gotta have my coffee and I gotta go for a run and I gotta, you know, make sure that I'm hydrated. I gotta make sure that all the emotional stuff is handled so that I can show up in best and highest service. Because I know that I won't be able to get through seven podcasts otherwise. If I eat crappy food during the day, forget about it. I don't even eat on podcast day and I'm on fire. So where does energy come from, gang? Is it food?

No.

Something else.

Ritalin.

The answer is on the next show. It's Adderall Podcast. No, I don't. I don't do Adderall. I don't do drugs. But I do very clearly pay attention to the things that, for me, and I'm not saying they're right for everybody, like fasting and hydration and caffeination and just the very specific little things that actually work for me, and I can do something and sustain. Oh, my God. It's a game changer.

Yeah. I found that yoga is a big thing for me now. I do lunchtime yoga. I'm like. And I just tricked myself into thinking whether this is true. Or not that I will be more successful the more yoga I do. Again, there's no science behind this. There's no data, there's no analytics. But I've convinced myself that I will be more successful if I do more yoga because I feel better. So at the very least, I will be healthier. But there's no necessary correlation between yoga and my bank account.

Ryan, I want to hear about your podcast journey because I know you have a really successful podcast. I know you're a successful influencer. I know you understand how to grok the science of that. It's not by accident. You can replicate that success if you so choose. What are some of the things you've learned through this journey of podcasting? And what would you do differently? Going back to the beginning?

Yeah. The podcast journey for me like really was like six years ago. I wanted to start one, but I had jobs, bills to pay, stresses it. Started a full time job and launch a podcast. Like, it's really hard to side hustle a podcast. Like you really have to dedicate like day hours to it, like during the week. And so I finally left the company where it's after machinima. It's called state.com. we raised $14 million. The startup was an opinion network that had, it was like semantic Twitter. We had Deepak Chopra on the board with some great investors, 14 million in the bank. And then unfortunately, some startups go boom or bust. This one went boom and then bust. So ultimately I left there. I was really burned out. My wife and I, she was giving birth to our first kid and I was like, well, I got to do this podcast now or never. It's like over three years ago. Then I wanted to write the influencer economy book. So I was like, all right, big vision, writing a book, got the domain. I don't know how to write a book. I'm not a professional author or even a writer. I'm a blogger at best. I was like, I'll use the podcast as research for the book and the podcast will help me. So it's like the symbiotic relationship between the big vision of the book and the platform of the podcast. And then along the way it started getting all these YouTube influencers, these gamers, these vloggers, all these very famous people that are now like in Silicon Valley, the TV show or Pitch Perfect, a movie. And you know, they're these rockstar gamers that go internationally around the world and they were well known and signing autographs for hundreds of people at a time. And all these Folks were just people I had in my network. And I was like, holy shit. Like, I can access a lot of smart people. And then suddenly, like, you know, I was getting introduced to all these really good business authors and writers and people like Adam Grant, you know, give and take. And I was like, holy shit. I can reach really anyone I want to. If I craft the proper email or if I put it in the universe, that someone can make the connection. And I just started being like, holy shit. Like, this is changing my whole business in my book and everything around it. And so the biggest learning I have is you have to create opportunities for yourself. This is personally and professionally that you put a little risk out there. Maybe it's 10% of your time, 20% of your time. There's a guy who I'm friends with, Patrick McGinnis. He wrote a book called the 10% entrepreneur, and he talks about how everyone needs to spend 10% of their life pursuing something with meaning on the side. And I'm a firm believer in that 10 to 20% model. Even if it's like a hobby, instead of watching football or gaming on the weekends, you do something. And for me, that was the book and the podcast helped facilitate that. So I feel like that's what makes my business and my life more interesting now. And if I wouldn't have done that, then I wouldn't be where I am. And there's been highs and lows and a lot of, you know, I've been knocked out, I've gotten up again, and that won't change. But I still think I live a much more interesting business life than, you know, most of my friends and most of my friends live vicariously through me. When I tell them how much I'm struggling with some certain aspect of my business, they're like, whoa. I mean, I sell real estate for a living, so like, that's pretty cool you're doing that. And ultimately, I think that, you know, if anyone listening here has wants to start a podcast or do anything that's, you know, technically like a 10% entrepreneurial gig, then do it. Because over time that just makes everything more interesting. And even if you make zero money or becomes your full time job, it will most likely be somewhere in between. You'll find more meaning and you'll like your day job more. You may like your spouse more because you get to like, be creative on the weekend writing a book, you know, because, oh my God, my wife lets me do stuff. And it's just stuff like that that keeps us going that I didn't realize now everyone needs. I just did it because I thought it was cool, but I never had the intention of that happening.

And then every once in a while, you actually truly help somebody and they reach out to you and they tell you so.

Oh, yeah, that's. I mean, that's by far the biggest surprise was the community that I developed around. I knew I could reach people, but I didn't expect, like, I do a couple episodes, a couple episodes every quarter on depression and mental health, talking about my struggles and other people's struggles. And I talked to some pretty successful people about their mental fitness. And I get emails once a week like, hey, I've thought about suicide. It's like, oh, wow. And they're like, can I Skype you for 15 minutes and just talk you through? And then I have a framework I can help them with, you know, jumping out of the airplane, like I mentioned before. And that kind of stuff is really unexpected. So overall, yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty amazing. It's just the one thing I would advise people in general about podcasting is not to just do it. To do it, like you need a purpose. Like, I had the book and that was the purpose. Because if you start losing interest, then you'll be sloppy, the quality will go down. You just not want to do it anymore. So I feel like if you find that bigger purpose, the meaning and the vision behind it, then you'll love it. And just don't expect to make, you know, game changing money out of it. Right.

And it has to be tied to some bigger goal. Like you said, like, for me, it's eventually I'm gonna get to a place where food, energy, water and shelter for every single human being on the planet is sustainable. That's the make enough marbles vision.

Right?

We've made enough marbles. We don't have to make anymore. We're covered. There's a lot of steps in between.

You got a lot more guests to talk to, people.

Yeah, I gotta, I gotta make a lot more connections. But having this platform allows me to reach out to people, say, hey, I've had bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam on the show. Would you be interested in also being interviewed? And they trust enough that those people make good decisions with their lives and haven't flipped out and come and, you know, bent my door down here in Cardiff with a torch that, you know, okay, cool, I'll take a risk on that too. And then they get on the show and we actually have a face to face conversation and it's nothing to do with how many people I want to have listened to this. It helps them. Certainly. I get tons of messages that say it does. But really the reason I do this, spend my entire Tuesday doing it this, and eat tacos every week and publish one every day is so that I can connect with people like Brian. I can connect to people like whoever.

Right.

That just. I have their attention. I live with people. I just had a great podcast with a woman named Samantha Scelly who I see all the time, that I've never dropped in as deep and learned as much about in this hour on this podcast. We live near each other, we see each other all the time. Yeah, it blows my mind that this medium, you know, there's so many levels to it, right? It's the level of you and I having a discussion and conversations level the people listening. It's a beautiful thing. It's a level of that one person that vibrates towards that thing that they need at that time, like the depression or the alcohol story, whatever I share on this, that I just allow to flow through me. And it's really just a function of getting the fuck out of my own way so I can show up and be in the best and higher service.

Yeah, I think that, I mean, you know, to your point, it's like the amount of listeners I've had two people ask me how many listeners I have. One was Larry King and one was a 75 year old music producer named Bob Lefsitz. So both the guys were over 75. They're involved in like the TV ratings era or the box office for movies. Right. So they're different mantra. But what's remarkable, it surprises people when I tell them this is some people just want good conversation. Some people live a life where they work really hard. They don't, they can't connect. And they liked having people ask them questions and they can talk about their philosophies because they don't get to do that every day at work or they don't get to do that. Right. And ultimately that conversation piece is, I think, the most important part. It's like the other day, you need social proof, you need good guests, you need to have an audience. But if you can't, if you can give people a good conversation, then you're gonna keep doing this for a long time.

Yeah, I don't even know what my numbers are. I'm not even looking. I gotta be honest, I let my team handle that because all I want to do is do the best possible podcast with the best Possible people I know how to do, and that shows up for me. And consistently, I get great guests. And guys, if anybody is listening and wants to do a podcast, if that's for you, go into it with all your heart and soul and just don't worry about the numbers because you're always going to compare yourself to the Tim Ferriss or the whoever and whatever, and you're going to make yourself crazy when you can just be the very best.

That you can make you mad. Yeah.

And I think it's just, you know, they've maximized being them. You maximize being you, and the world will show up for you.

Those people have, like a decade on you.

Yeah.

Like, that's the Funny you look at these people, like, wow, that guy is a top podcast. Like, yeah, this person's been doing what they're doing for like eight years and that, like, Tim Ferriss is doing this forever. It's not like he just showed up one day and could rock the podcast. And what's remarkable about his show is that he's not even that good of an interviewer.

Yes. The same question over and over. If you notice, most of them are very similar, although they evoke really, they're great questions and they evoke great responses. They're not off the cuff. Yeah, I tried to be like Tim. I would get bored as hell. Like, I don't care, you know, about hearing the same answer from same people. But then he comes out with tribal mentors. I really like that book.

Yeah, right.

And that's really just distilled down to 11 questions. He asked everybody. He took the best answer. So there's ways to do it, guys, and there's so many ways to be creative in this space. And I just really love getting another podcast in the show to kind of hash out because it's, it's, it's a fun medium and I hope more people do it, but not with the expectation it's gonna make them a bajillionaire youe know, for every JLD or Tim Ferriss or whoever that makes a really great living off of it, there's tons of people that just do it for the love of the game. And I would love for you to be that. Be okay if you just did it for lovely game and that filled you up enough. And then if it goes wild and becomes top itunes, whatever, it ends up being awesome. But not having to make that your story of, oh, if I don't get this and mommy and daddy don't love me, and the whole world's gonna Die and puppies and babies will be harmed because I didn't become the top of anything.

Yeah, we don't want any puppies or babies to be harmed in this episode.

No puppies, no babies were harmed in the filming of this episode. I can guarantee it, 100%, unequivocally, without remorse. So, Ryan, this is the Make More Morals podcast. And as you know, my mission in life is to connect people to the resources, the opportunities, the people and the systems that they need in order to move their miss forward faster. So a, let's get really hyper specific clear on what that is right now and then how can we help you do that?

How can you help me do that?

Yeah, well, me or anybody else listening to this podcast, those four people that we mentioned earlier.

Well, to your cousin and your uncle and your aunt that's listening.

No, they don't listen. They're. They're sick of hearing me talk.

Oh, I have no idea. That's a. Can you lead me a little bit better with that question so I understand?

Absolutely. Thank you for asking. So I would really love to hook you up with, like a person that helps you get to the next level or, you know, hey, I really need this right now. What do you recommend? And either myself or somebody who's listening will most likely have that answer and maybe be able to reach out to you and provide it.

Oh, I don't. I mean, right now I'm looking to do more webinars.

Got it.

I like webinars. I'm really good at storytelling. I like to do public speaking. Speaking at the Santa Monica Public Library in February. I'm speaking at Google in LA in February, speaking at Santa Barbara in February. So I love getting the word out through webinars online or speaking in person.

And then with regard to webinars, is it doing more in the sense of like, you want more opportunities to see other people's audiences or you want to get a webinar that works really well for your business?

I have an odd. I already have a webinar. I'm looking to get my webinar to other people's audiences.

Got it.

So promotional partners, promotional partnerships, joint venture, and I do webinars on connecting, collaborating with influencers, pitching, you know, storytelling how to tell authentic stories. So it's really about finding your story, pitching, and then growing your influence.

I love it. So if anybody listening has an influencer or a audience that they have access to, either yours or somebody that you know, that would be a really great fit to hear about how to use Influence and the Influencer Economy to grow your business or do your thing. And you should really reach out to Ryan. What's the best way to do that, ryan?

Go to influencer economy.com and I will make a custom link for this for people if they want to go to influencer economy.commarbles. and what I can do is I have a handbook. I can give people about how to tell authentic stories with their, their badass story, their pay my bills story or their, their ultimate story, which is their tearjerker, you know, to really get people emotionally connected to you. And then I'll have my contact info on that page just for the people listening.

I appreciate that. Thank you, Ryan. So that's going to be influencereconomy.com marbles.

That's marbles.

And then you'll grab those stories? Actually.

Yeah, I'll send it to you. Yeah, I just did a final pass at them. And it's all about stories for the right room, the right audience, really anytime when you're talking to people. Because a lot of us, like I've seen undervalue our stories. And as you know, we talk to people that are full of bs, that tell really good stories and I hate those people. I want to help people that are real and authentic and have good stories to understand how to tell them better. Yeah, that's the end of the day.

Like this. I still get it wrong because I'm.

All over the place.

I'm just a bundle energy. I know I got great stuff and experiences and relating and all that good stuff that if I just put it in a better framework and structure, it would, it would impact more and land more. So that's why I'm interested.

Yeah, that's what this level is all about. Levels, levels up. We're gonna up your levels.

We like levels. Make more levels. Leverage, leverage. Luscious levels.

Leverage your marbles and levels.

We just went really meta on the show and it's awesome. But I want to wrap it up on a high note. Ryan, what is something that you wish everybody in the world knew? And if you had a microphone in everybody's ear in the world, what would you tell them?

Wow, that's a really Tim Ferrissey question. He's not listening. Okay. If I could do one, if I could help people learn one thing, I would tell them to consider that we start something and you're pitching, you're giving a talk, you're doing stand up comedy. You're out in public, right. And you're telling your story, you're presenting it always finish it when you're presenting to people. And I say this because when I did stand up comedy, I did that first gig in Baltimore, that dive bar, people smoking and drinking water down beer and chicken wings and eating them and stuffing their face and not laughing at me. I quit in the middle of my set because I forgot joke 2, 3, and 4. Right. Even though I had, like, the note card there to remind me on my beer napkin. And so I talked to this comedian, Mitch Hedberg, who sadly has passed away. One of the best storytellers. So funny. Just incredible. He love him, and I still do. What's that?

I used to love Mitch Hedberg, and I still do.

Oh, he's. I can just go down the Wormhole on YouTube.

Drugs, but he still does.

Yeah. He's like, why is it when a elevator is broken, instead of saying out of order, it should just say stairs? You know, so very much like Stephen Wright. And he told me before he passed away sadly, that you always got to finish your set. He's like, it's not about the audience, about you. And so I feel like that's a good mentality for life. Like, anytime you're in a business environment, you're pitching someone, you're doing a webinar, you're doing a talk, you're doing whatever, and you're like, oh, my God, this is going terribly. Like, you're on a podcast and you're interviewing someone and the guy's being a jerk or the gals being awful. You just got to get through it and power through your set. And I think, you know, metaphorically just applying that mentality of, like, get through your set, like, your six jokes, you know, and if it's. If you're bombing, just remember it's not about the audience always. It's about you. And make sure you get your reps and your muscle memory and your behavior to perform well.

I like that. And you never know if you could turn it around if you don't keep going.

And some of those are the best moments when, like, you just pull things out of thin air. And I didn't pull that, you know, dive bar in Baltimore out of. I didn't pull anything out of that. But when I was at the improv and people laughed because it was much easier room because people will actually want to laugh there. Then I was like, oh, yeah, I performed that dive bar. I got through it.

I like it. Ryan, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure just getting to know you and connecting on all the things that were talking about and just having you on the show. And I'm glad that it happened the way that it happened so that we could have this conversation now.

Yeah, totally worked out great. Thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. And for everybody listening at home, check out influencereconomy.commarbles to get in touch with Ryan and grab those bonuses. And thank you so much on behalf of everybody in the Make More Marbles community for being here. Appreciate it.

Thank you, sir.

Thanks so much for listening to the Make More Marbles podcast. For more tips, hacks and strategies to create and emerge amazing abundant life in your health, wealth and relationships, whatever that means to you, head on over to makemoremarbles.com check out our cool explainer video about what we're about and join our community of entrepreneurial game changers. We want to help you level up your life in every possible way. And don't forget to subscribe to us on itunes, Stitcher or Google Play wherever you listen to your podcast. And please do leave a review. Thank you so much and we'll see you on the next podcast.