Ep 31: I'd prefer to watch a well-ridden palomino pony...

From performanceriders.com. this is the Pabry podcast. I'm Nat Foxen and each episode I challenge World equestrian Games top 10 dressage writer Brett Parbury to explain and discuss what I call a parburyism. That's a pearl of wisdom I've written down over the years of working together in our performance writers programs. Brett doesn't know what today's Pabraism is. Let's get into it. Okay, Brett, here we go. Another Pavri podcast episode. And are you ready for today's Potburyism?

Yes, let me have it.

Today's papyrism is I'd prefer to see a well ridden palomino pony than a badly trained, fancy imported warmblood any day.

Oh, gosh.

Why'd you say oh, God? You feel like you're gonna say something controversial?

I mean, okay, you know, everyone gets, everyone goes ooh and ah and oh, wow, wow, wow. About the big fancy moving dressage horse. And of course, those horses are impressive as athletes, you know, athletic, you know, often young. Um, but you know, the whole thing that that comment is around is that training dressage is based off training. And the fancy moving horse doesn't always, you know, you can't see much about the trainability in that horse at that young sort of age. You know, when they're flying around knees up and flying, the trainability, the way in which they're going to collect, the way in which the rider and the coach or whatever you know, the trainer puts in the half halt and the way the half halt develops collection and the fact that dressage is all about collection as you go up the level. So you know what I talk, what I sort of say, there is a beautifully ridden palomino pony. No disrespect to the palomino ponies out there, but I'm just trying to say that a well ridden horse that's not as fancy, but beautifully ridden, meaning really through, really straight, really balanced in front of the leg, riders sitting beautifully and the riders putting that horse back on their hind leg, you know, each time they need to balancing the horse back and putting the horse through gymnastic exercises to develop collection. I'd prefer sit and watch that all day. Then a big specky. I was a big. Could be anything, could be small, but a specky, athletic athlete flying around with the rider just hanging off them and really not doing much to do with dressage at all. Doing more to do with stay in shows or auction riding or young, low level young horse riding which requires no training, you know, not much training. Involved in that. So that's, that's, that, that's what that's all about.

I feel like you're entering your no Filter era and I'm loving it. I'm here for it.

I don't know if this is the format for no Filter, but, you know, yeah, look, I guess it happens when you get older, doesn't it? You get to see more. You've seen more. You've also, you know, at the end of the day, you don't want to see other people make the same mistakes that I've made or other people have made. You hope that as we go through the generations, we get smarter and smarter and we identify things quicker. So, you know, let's go back to that, that young horse that's flying around with the knees up and everything. Now what you can see is the obvious things, right? The horse is an athletic mover. It trots really well, it can, is really well. It, the horse walks really well. That's obvious. What the job is about. This, you know, training the dressage horse is now, how do we take all those weaknesses and then develop them at the same time? And they're oftentimes the things that aren't obvious. So, you know, can the horse trot smaller? Can, can, you know, can you, can the horse handle just standing on the bit with its feet still and halt? Can the horse walk and be adjusted in walk and can the horse's brain just slow down and accept the aids? You know, they're the things that aren't obvious and, but they're the things that are more important for the horse going forward than this big flashy athleticism. Certainly for the, certainly towards Grand Prix, you know, if someone's just wanting to win stuff, lower level stuff, and get lots of accolades on the way through that, that's, they'll do that. But going towards Grand Prix, there's not saying that horse is not going to be a good Grand Prix horse. I'm just saying that without attention to those things that aren't as obvious, you're not giving yourself much of a chance of getting it.

There's, and I think also this comes down to more broadly what we value in the sport, you know, and what do we want that to be? Do we want it to be kind of what it is now, which is, oh my God, amazing horse, amazing horse, what's the breeding, etc. Or do we want it to be about the skill and horsemanship of the rider? Like, do we want it to be about the training?

I think, you know, I Wouldn't say now is particularly, I think we've been that way for quite a while. I mean there's, you know, I think as long as I've been doing it, which is coming on to 27 years now, we've always been really amazed by these really spectacular moving horses. Now of course that is, that is the product of breeding genetics and the breeders are breeding for a market. So the market. So once upon a time the horses moving with a lot more scope and a lot more expression was, was done through training and collection and you know, good training. And then of course the breed is cottoned onto the fact that if we could breed the horse to look like it trots like that and have it trotting like that as a foal or, or a two year old will sell the horses quicker. So. Because no one wants to, not many people want to go and watch a horse trot around small because you can't really, you can't really see into the horse either and see, oh, could I, could I build this trot into something bigger? No, no one's really impressed by a horse trotting around small. And they all, you know, we all want to see what kind of looks like the future, but the future is kind of trained, trained more so than bread. And of course if you've got breeding and training and a brain, then you have a superstar. So I'm not saying it's, you know, one or the other, but yeah, there's just far, far more involved and I don't think that's, I don't think that's been lost now. I just think we just keep, need to keep reminding ourselves that that's, that's the job, that's dressage.

So let's say you're hanging over the fence of a warm up arena somewhere at a competition and, and you see that palomino pony, that beautifully ridden, beautifully trained palomino pony. Can you dig down a little deeper into what it is you're loving? You're seeing in that sort of imaginary image what is the rider doing or what? How is the horse responding that you think that is a well trained horse?

Well, it's funny you say because at the most recent big show in Australia that I went to, which was Sydney City Eye, that actually happened. Now it wasn't a palomino pony, but it was not, not a, not the most spectacular moving horse in the class. And I was watching and I never really, I never get a chance to watch that much, but I was watching the warm up and I Thought, my God, that girl's a good writer. And I've known the girl nearly her whole life, but I hadn't really watched her. I always knew she was competing. I thought, my God, that girl's a good writer. And I was watching what she was doing, just in her own little world, warming the horse up for the show, for the competition. And I really liked the line she was riding. I liked the transition she was making. I was watching the, the way in which she wasn't letting the warm up distract her. And I had to say something after I saw her. I said, I watched you ride for the first time. You know, I've known her probably 20 years, but I said, geez, you rode well and good on you. You know, I love watching that. And it was all about that just good choice of structure, like a good, good choice of lines. Everything was in balance. She was trying to, every time she corrected the horse, she'd put the horse into a place where she could sit quietly. So she was very aware of pressure on, pressure off. She was making, you know, little sort of corrections without overcorrecting. And it wasn't the easiest horse. And anyway, she ended up winning the class. And so it's not, not saying it's not a bad moving horse, it's a nice moving horse, but it's a tricky horse. And she ended up winning the class. And I thought, wow, that's great like that, that's that good riding was really rewarded. There were horses in that class that could move bigger and were more spectacular. But the good riding got rewarded not only by me, but the, you know, the judges rewarded as well. And it'd be that same writing. If I saw that on a buckskin pony or, you know, or something like that. If I see that riding good, good lines, focus a rider that's making corrections. The pressure's coming, the pressures, they're putting the horse in a spot where the pressure's removed and they're trying to think about everything they're doing in a calm, methodical way. That's what impresses me more so than someone sort of overriding to create this, you know, horse with its knees up, overriding. And then when they override, they ride the horse off balance or ride the horse against them and then they over correct that. That response. That's the opposite.

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And let me say there's been a bit of a run on Palomino Ponies in Australia. I've. I think I can't remember where I was. I think it was the local competition and at one point they the Barbie horses and we pay extra range from.

Ponies through to something that you just said. When you're describing the sort of real rider you were describing and in the warm up that you're watching thinking that, that she was doing a wonderful job, you said that every correction she made was to put the horse in a place where she could then be quiet. And I thought that is such a gold nugget. Every correction correction we make is to put the horse in a place where the rider can be quiet again. Absolutely love that.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's how you try to achieve harmony. You know what the magic harmony we're all looking to achieve. I mean there's not one horse that's just going to stay in that spot for you. It's about the way you rebalance or correct or choose a line or create energy when you need to find more expression how you do that without riding the horse off balance and if the horses do go off balance how you can quickly notice which why is that happened make the correction and the response is then to let the pressure off again and not let the pressure off in the wrong moment. But when that horse goes back to where you want them underneath you and balanced and underneath you and you can through.

Now you touched on a few of these points that momentarily on the flip side of the coin, what do you not want to be seeing? Like what isn't aligned with your system and your philosophy that you'd prefer not to be seeing in that warm up arena that maybe it even might go in and score quite well but you feel like perhaps there's not longevity to that system of training or they're going to run into setbacks at some point. So what would that look like?

I'll just say at the start of this that here in Australia like I think the horsemanship's quite good. Like I do, you know we might not be producing, you know, world winning gold medal grand prix horses but the horsemanship at a general level is actually pretty good. You know the people get, they get it. But of course trying to win competitions brings out you know, you're trying to, you're trying to find something extra for your horse. So what I don't like watching is pretty much what I said there, that, that when the horse is trying its hardest, that the aids stay on that. You know, like, for example, if the horse is trotting like hell and you know, the riders had to sort of spice them up to do that, that, that the rider is then holding that horse in that spot by either keeping their legs sort of on and pushing and holding the front and there's no release. So the horse can't really sort of, you know, it's not anymore. There's not. There's no incentive for the horse to want to keep doing this because the rider is just going to keep holding them and keep pushing them. That's that. That will take you nowhere. Certainly it'll win you some ribbons low down the sport when training and training is at a minimum. But the higher you go up the levels, the less that strategy will help you. So that's, you know, the rider is trying to just keep all the pressure on to keep this happening. Then also a rider who is using up all of their capacity to hold that horse together and then not thinking about transitions, not thinking about lines, you know, the lines, because a line, you know, a line, we say a line, let's call it, let's say a diagonal or a circle or a center line or a quarter line. The line is like a tightrope and you want to keep the horse as balanced as you possibly can on that tightrope. So the horse can actually start to let themselves go and not feel like they're scrambling for their life around the circle or whatever. And with that, with that comes more resistances. So, you know, the rider that, that is very measured about. I'm riding this line now and now I'm getting the balance and now I'm disappearing. And then, oops, I need more energy. And momentarily, that horse might over respond, but then the rider rewards the horse for the over response. And then in the next few steps, they put the horse back under them on the line and balanced and leave them alone again. So not saying you have to make it look perfect all the time, but it's noticing like when you need to make a correction, then making the correction either rewarding or repeating the response you're after, and then taking that response, putting, putting it back into kind of that combination of age you're looking for, and then disappearing and letting the horse realize, you know, this is now pressure off. And then the horse Makes another mistake. Okay, now I correct you again. And either the horse goes back into where you want or they don't. And then you have to work on getting a response. And when you get a response, you know, the whole process goes like that. And that, that's a slowed down version of, of that process yet.

So thinking about this topic all the time, all the time, Advisor rider, you can keep quiet and wants to go and buy the fancy imported warm blood. Do you ever revise them? Actually maybe, maybe that is not the horse for you right now that we need to work on your skills and ability more on another type of horse before you get that horse or what's your thoughts there?

I mean there's nothing wrong with buying the big fancy warmblood that's like still say to people like don't, you know, still buy those ones but just really understand, like understand that, that where you want to go, understand how you're going to get there. And of course, if someone's saying that's amazing, like that trot's amazing, don't get too caught up in that moment because we all know it's training the adjustability of the paces, it's training the collection that that is what we need to do. So my advice would be find the horse that you feel you can do that on, you know, if it happens to be a fancy mover. Because I'm telling you what the horse I'm describing for you now is the ones that you don't see for sale in Europe. Like, like these people know how to look, how to keep them in their stable as well. Oftentimes the ones and of course they're not. If you uncover one and you find one, great, great, great job. But usually it's the ones that I'm that I'm describing there before that have this sort of really expression, lots of expression, lots of athleticism, but not a lot of adjustability or the brain doesn't allow for training, allow them to be trained or they're a bit weak. And you know, if, if someone's buying a horse like that and you asked the question of have I advised people over the years, having been in Europe and been in other countries and people come and ask me to look at horse with them. I've advised lots of people about, I don't know if I'd buy that one, but I really like the look of that one over there. And I'm not here to talk about how right and wrong I've been, but certainly the ones that raise red flags, they didn't go anywhere, like I can. There's a long list of them. And certainly some of the ones that came back that were good ones went on to some good things. And then there were ones that surprised me where I'm like, oh, that was good. And how'd you do that? And then. Then you learn, oh, that person's got a really good system. Like, they've got a good training system. They're really smart. And so then you, you know, you learn from that as well.

Yeah.

So. And I know with the ones we've bought, like, I've made those mistakes over the years that you buy the horse and you think, oh, that's what, you know, the world wants to see all of this. Then you get them home and you realize, oh, gee, how are we going to train all this? And then you start tweaking your system, which is, you know, one of the reasons why I begin in hand PR work at, like, very, very low intensity at about five and a half years old. And that's now part of my system because I realized that I could put nearly all horses through that, starting at five and a half and kind of rolling that out till they're eight, you know, seven and a half, eight. And giving them a good two to three years to understand that. And the way in which, you know, I train short pony steps and activity and all of that, and then close it up and then start training technique of piaff that was designed on the basis of, we've now got these horses. How am I going to teach them to be Grand Prix horses? Because possibly, you know, they've got all the gears at that end and they're spectacular.

Yeah.

Now I need to teach them to.

Well, that was such a fascinating conversation and, you know, welcome, Brett, to your no Filter era.

Making those mistakes, too.

This is the official launch. No. Well, I'll try to get more controversy out of you as we go in future episodes before we finish up.

Didn't feel. No.

Do you want to, like, credit where credit's due? Do you want to tell us who the writer was that you were admiring at the show? Fantastic conversation. Thank you, Brett.

Thanks N.