Ep 9: Our job is to build the best version of our horses

And this is what makes dressage so wonderful. It's a long term game. It's a sport of development. The sport itself will create the animal and the horse to be the best version of itself. It just comes down to how we apply it.

From performanceriders.com this is the Pabry podcast. I'm Nat Foxen, and each episode I challenge World equestrian Games top 10 dressage writer Brett Parbury to explain and discuss what I call a pabryism. That's a pearl of wisdom I've written down over the years of working together in our performance writers programs. Brett doesn't know what today's pabrism is. Let's get into it. Okay, Brett, here we are, another podcast episode. We're getting so many lovely comments and messages about the podcast so far. So I'm really excited about that and thank you everybody for getting in touch. Now, Brett, are you ready to potentially get stumped with today's papyism?

Right, let's do it.

Let's do it. Okay. Today's papyrism is our job as riders, is to make the horse the best possible version of itself. Now, I'm not sure if I've worded that exactly in the right way, Brett. I know that you know what I'm getting at with that one, because you tell this to us all the time in different ways. How would you word that?

Yeah, look, it's something I say a lot, and I usually use that in the context when I'm trying to say don't be distracted about other people having fancier horses or someone else is doing a lot better than you are at a certain level at a show or someone's got this coach and they're. Everything's bigger and better at the end of the day. The job that we sign up to when we do dressage and the brief that we sign up to. And I think it's. It's a really good feeling when you can get an understanding of this too. Is that to take the horse we have and try to create the best version of that horse possible, given what the horse is. Is it a hot horse, a cold horse, is it a heavy light? You know, you name it, they're all different. But what's the horse we've got? What's the strengths and weaknesses? How am I designing my training system and my, my program to bring out the best in that horse? And if, if we can do that? And the beauty about dressage is it's such a long sport. You know, it goes from preliminary right through to grand Prix. And a horse that's shining in preliminary might not make it to Grand Prix. And a horse that you don't even look at twice at preliminary might be the best Grand Prix horse you've ever seen. So the beauty of dressage is it's a long. There's a long sport there. There's a lot of development to go through, and you just never know when that horse might hit its straps. And if you can. If you can train and compete and engage in the sport, not necessarily for the successes, but for the development and to bring out the best in your horse by being smart and being committed and being systematic, then that is what you've signed up for in. In taking on dressage.

So let's dig a little bit further into exactly what you mean by the best version of itself. What is the best version of the horse? What do you mean by that?

Well, I think when I think of the best version of the horse, I think of a horse that looks happy, healthy. Happy and healthy. And that can be seen in mannerisms, eyes, ears, coat, muscle development, just in the overall nature of the horse. Does the horse really want to be with me when I'm working them, Are they willing? Am I. Am I training a horse to be willing? Am I rewarding them at the right times? And when I'm repeating things, am I doing it in a way where it's understandable, trying to get the horse to where they really enjoy our company and really enjoy being trained by us? I mean, of course they would prefer stand under a tree, but to be totally honest, if they are going to do this sport with us, at least try to give them the benefit of training them in a way where they feel good through their body, so gymnastically and getting them balanced and gymnastically developed so they feel good. Let's train them in a way where we offer lots of reward. Repeat. I mean, you can't only train a horse with rewarding but rewarding at the right moments. Don't keep it a secret, actually. Just reward them by using a voice aid or a scratch on the neck, but reward them in the right moments, repeat things. If they get it wrong, break things down for them in our training system, break it down into small pieces that they can understand, then bring them together so they learn how to respond to each individual aid better. And really just look at it like it's a sport of development. And if something's taking a bit longer, it may not fit in your time frame for what you want or you expect, but the horse is telling you it's taking me longer. So just listen to the horse and just remember you're doing this for them, not for your friends or not for kudos or not for an ego. You're doing it to develop them to be the best they can be in the sport.

So this might be a slightly controversial question, but, but I'm thinking then with this pavrism that our job as dressage riders is to make the horse the best version of themselves. You must then have an underlying fundamental belief that dressage is a positive influence in a horse's life.

Yes, yeah, I would agree with that simply because it is such a rounded sport. You know, the requirements of, of dressage first and foremost is in that gymnasticizing and suppling and the sport itself a little bit the same as gymnastics or I guess ballet is. The horses can't do it if they're not developed certainly at the higher levels, if they're not being developed properly to do the sport gymnastically, strength wise, mentally being able to cope with the, with the questions and then being able to understand them. I think that in itself the horses and the demands on the horse aren't high powered, fast demands. It's, it's often a sort of a slower developing sport, not like a racehorse where they, you know, they have to develop blistering speed straight away and their careers are over by the time they're sort of five or a cutting horse where, you know, the, the stopping and turning around is so hard on them that their careers are, you know, over. Ours are only getting sort of. Well certainly they're only learning in dressage nearly the full, the full, let's say, spectrum of what they need to know by their eight or nine. Then there's two years in becoming more established and better and more comfortable with the, with the Grand Prix knowledge. And then you know, like on an age for stage basis you're looking at like 11 or 12 and then there's another six to eight years of competing grand prix in that horse that takes them through till they finish their dressage career. So, so our horses develop over a much, much longer career and therefore we, we need to train them on that basis that we do want them to be a happy, healthy 18 year old, you know, dressage horse that hasn't got, you know, problems with his legs or problems mentally or had nervous breakdown or whatever it might be that they've actually got a full, they're very, and the dressage work I should say is, is keeping them at the best they can be, you know, the endorphins are being released, the body's being suppled, the strength is there. So yeah, I do believe that dressage is a great way to, to, it's great for the horses.

So how does this idea apply differently to different types of horses? So, you know, you haven't said to us your job is to create this very specific looking type of dressage horse. You've said our job is to create the best version of our own individual horses. So how does it apply differently to different types of.

Yeah, I think definitely as a horse person and a trainer, we need to step back from our horses and take a view of them, a bit of a non biased view on trying to identify the strengths and weaknesses because every horse has got strengths and every horse has weaknesses and there's never been a perfect horse born yet. So every horse has got some form of a strength and some form of a weakness. And our job is to step back and look at that, that and try to design a training program that fits for that particular horse. So if you don't feel confident, you know, being able to do that, try to find, you know, a coach or a mentor or someone who you believe is a good horse person and can help you to just identify where the strengths and weaknesses are and then, and then set about trying to design your training program to strengthen the weaknesses and, you know, consolidate the strengths. And once you do that, then start to look at, okay, now how do I move to the next level? And this is the beautiful part about dressage is it's, it is such a structured, step by step, level by level. So sport, how do I step to the next level now? And then what might happen there is, we find a whole brand new set of weaknesses. So you, you, you're all the time building upon a really solid foundation and the foundation you can always, for every problem that presents itself as you're going up through the levels of dressage, there's always a very simple foundation answer. An answer back in the fundamentals and it might be just something that's been lost on the way through or something you haven't done well enough at the beginning. But the answers to the tough things and the difficult questions are always in the, in the, in the simple fundamentals. And don't be misadvised there that simple. They're not simple fundamentals are hard like the fun. The good fundamentals are difficult and they're hard and they're very specific and, and they need to be very, very visited a lot, you know, through training. Because it is the fundamentals that make the hard exercises. So I think what you'll find is, as you go through the sport of dressage, things will present that are hard and difficult for that particular horse. And then you'll just tweak your system to try and strengthen that. And that's what it's all about. Trying to find how to make this horse the best version of itself by being the more intelligent, the more intelligent of the combination.

What sort of indicators can we look for in our horses that might be a sign that we're, we're along the right path to developing the best version of our horses?

I think the, the body, the way the body is developing is a good one. You know, the coat, coat and muscle development. So how healthy does my horse look in their coat? Because remember, it's not only riding, it's the whole management. It's everything to do with that horse that will be a reflection. You know, the horse is like a mirror. When we're looking into the horse and looking at the horse, what we should see back is everything we're doing from good feeding, farrier, good saddle fit, good grooming through to good training. So coat muscle development, they're two good ones. Attitude, you know, does the horse like being with me? Does he run a mile when I try to catch him? Is he, you know, does he like my company? And also then when I'm riding, can I feel that I'm not having to do as much as I can train as I train my horse? And this is the whole point, like when we train them, we should be able to do less. So our whole point of being able to train horses is the more we train them, the more understanding they get, the less we should have to do, the smaller aids we should be able to use. So am I able to do less now to get this to happen? You know, could be a leg yield. Am I able to just give the suggestion of the aids and my horse is going to know what I want and move off my leg and leg yield or shoulder in or walk hander or whatever it might be. So in the training itself, or am I still, or am I actually having to use more aids than I did at the beginning? Which that's a worry, that's telling you that you're not getting your horse to respond well enough and your horse is getting more and more, let's say numb or, or non responsive to your aids and you're getting sucked into it. You know, you're, you're having to do your, your horse is convincing you to do more While he's doing less.

Yeah.

So the training and riding itself, and then, you know, as you go through the levels, as the, the exercise get harder, am I feeling like I'm working harder, the harder the work gets, or am I feeling like I know where the problems are? I'm fixing them through the fundamentals. I'm bringing it all together to the tougher stuff. And I can feel that we're developing. I can feel that we're getting better at this. I can feel that this will be. That we're going to be fine another six months, eight months, whatever, developing, working on the exercises. This is going to be fine for, for me and my horse. They're all signs that you are on the right way.

What about scores and competition results? Are they an indicator that we're on the right pathway?

They can be. They definitely can be. I mean, I wouldn't use that as a sole verifier that we're on the right way. But definitely, if you're taking, if you're taking your horses to shows and you're getting feedback from judges, you know, judges, they, they actually want to give you marks. I don't, you know, if someone's only giving someone might be a. Just a naturally, a low marker. Right. But I don't believe they're like the, they're not jumping from low marks for this one to high marks for that one. It just fits with their philosophy and fits with what those judges want to see in the arena. So, you know, if you're able to understand why you're getting certain marks from the judges and why some judges don't particularly like your style or like your horse or whatever. If you take the time to understand that and if you agree with them, if you go, oh, yeah, I can see that point. I can see why they're not really liking this picture. And then you go away and you break it down, you work on it and you come back and you see some uplift in the marks, then that can be a verifier that you're on the right way. If you're finding a certain level a lot easier than you did, that can be time to say to you, you know what? I can do everything in this level to a point where it's, it's, it's easy now. And I feel like I'm very competent at this. I'm now training onto the next level. You know, your marks might not have gone up that much, but you feel way more competent. That can be. Those can be verifiers to say that you're ready to push upwards and you're on the right way.

Just a quick message from us. If any of the ideas discussed today resonate with you and you'd love to dive deeper, head over to performanceriders.com there's a bunch of free content for you, and there's loads of opportunities as well to work with us by enrolling in one of our training or mentoring programs. Performance riders. You mentioned earlier that noticing that you're having to use more aids, more and more aids could be a bit of a red flag. You've slightly gone off track in terms of what we're aiming for here in creating the best possible version of our horses. What are some other red flags that we might want to look out for that could say to us maybe what our approach or our system at this time is not perfectly aligned to this horse?

Well, behavioral issues, that. That would be probably the first one. Horses respond to pressure and release. That's. That's their natural way of communication. So pressure and release. So if we are riding in a way where there's pressure, pressure, pressure when the horse is doing what we want, and then the horse gets a little bit sick of that, so they give a little resistance and they feel something release that will tend to get them. They will investigate that further.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. They'll investigate.

I liked that I gave a resistance here and I liked the fact the pressure released because, let's face it, the horses would like to be left alone. Even when we're riding them, they would prefer be left alone. And it's impossible to do dressage and leave them alone all the time. But we're aiming to do the minimum of every aid. That's how you can create the picture that you're not doing much at all. We're trying to do the minimum or just the guiding or the suggestion of the aid, and the horse notices that and they respond to it. And then you can go, okay, well, I can let the pressure off. And what that does is it you tend to stay out of their way more. You stay out of their way and you guide them. And you, you, you, you can do anything with that. The best riders in the world are creating energy off a small aid. They're creating a half hole off a small aid, and in between that, they're leaving the horses alone. So if you feel like you're riding and you're right, you're having to hold one end and you're having to push and kick the. And kick it with with your legs to keep them going. I guarantee it. The horse is not enjoying that. They're not enjoying that. They would.

No one's enjoying that.

No one's enjoying that. So the thing is that. That's called pressure, right? That's pressure. Pressure on the mouth, pressure on the legs. Now, okay, I come along and say, oh, by the way, you've got to try and lighten all these aids off. Well, the first thing that happens when you start lightening the aids off is the horse starts pushing out, pushing out of those aids. So if you let lighten the reins, the horse will push out its neck longer. So then the rider goes, but hang on, the horse feels worse. And I go, I know. That's the point is you've got to try and train him now not to pull longer, but then leave him alone when he tries it. So you've got to develop in the rider way more skill. And it does take a lot more skill and a lot more timing and a lot more feeling, but developing the rider more skill to notice when the horse is in the right position, how to soften the aid a little bit, notice when the horse goes against them, correct it and soften again. There's way more components to that, right? And it's much easier for someone just to hang on than it is to actually go through all those little components to get the horse to feel great. And that's the whole skill of riding, is to develop your skill set and your understanding and be open to it and try to be the better athlete. So you give your horse a much better, let's call it natural way of going that then they'll want to do time and time and time again, and they become willing with that. And I've. I've struggled with that over the years of coaching when I'm trying to. When I see the style of riding that I was telling you about before, of course it gets results. It'll get you. You'll get a horse through a dressage.

Test like that, right?

And there could be a dead end to that at some point, but who knows? You might. You know, horses are amazing things. They will give you everything, even if they're not enjoying it. But I'll come along and I'll go, by the way, you know, we'll get this all wider and easier and Grand Prix, our goal here. And then it always feels worse before, it feels better, and then the rider feels useless because they feel like they haven't got the skills that we're talking about. And it's much easier to hang on and push and hold. So in those instances, and I don't know how I got on this tangent, but anyway, in those instances, you've got to go a long way backwards to then get back to what looks like the same point. But you get back to the same point with a horse that is way more willing, way more developed, that is the best version of itself for that point in time that will then end up going further in the sport.

That's why I've heard you say it's very difficult to coach a rider who's winning but needs to change some things.

Hardest person to coach or the hardest person to teach is someone who doesn't believe they've got anything to learn. Yeah. And, and, and winning is verification that that style is working. Right. And, and I, you know, I agree with them. I. Why would you want to go and completely change things when you're getting verified that things are going well? But at the same time, if your goal is to go to Grand Prix, then I would definitely have an open mind about that. Even if, even if it's completely against your, let's say, philosophy and mentorship and the way in which you believe the sport should go. I think everybody needs to have an open mind because we are dealing with a living creature here with horses. They aren't servants, they're not servants, they're living creatures. They are able to have their own thoughts and they are able to choose whether they want to do this or not. Now, most times, because they're wonderfully compliant animals, they will find a way to do it for you, even if it's not comfortable for them. But if we want to be super nice and super, super engaged in the whole let. I want to bring out the best in this horse and I want to do it in a way which I'd love him to turn up every single day and want to do it and be the best he can be for, you know, at least 20 years old in the sport, then we've got to think about making ourselves the better athlete. And, and, and, and going about what I was saying before. Be smart, identify strengths, identify weaknesses. That comes, that also refers to us. What's my strengths? What are my weaknesses? What can I do better? That horse's weaknesses are also my weaknesses. So I need to get stronger in this area. All of these things that need to be thought about. And this is what makes dressage so wonderful.

Right?

It's what makes it so wonderful. You can, it's a long term game, it's a sport of development. You can develop them all the way through to lead 20. They're always getting better. The sport itself will create the animal and the horse to be the best version of itself. It just comes down to how we apply it.

So the part reason we've been talking about today is that it's our job as riders to make the horse the best possible version of itself. Brett, I have two final questions for you. The first one is, are there some horses that are not suited to dressage that do that to this. This pabarism does not apply to them.

Yeah, yeah, look, there are. There's always going to be horses that just. Dressage is not for them. Now, that could be a physical characteristic or a physical challenge or a mental. Usually mental. I think physical, you can. You can get over that in some ways. You know, they might not be amazing, but you'll definitely. You'll definitely produce the better version of themselves. Mentally, it's difficult. If a horse is just mentally not there, unable to be trained, it doesn't matter who you are and what you do, that will be difficult. But definitely, like, certainly some horses are way more suitable than others.

Final question in today's episode, do you have a favorite horse or perhaps a horse that you've coached or one that you've competed, that you've just seen this transformation happen in over time that you've been particularly proud of? When we're talking about this process of training and riding, creating the best possible version of our horses, is there one that springs to mind for you that you think, you know what? Yes, the training and the journey through dressage absolutely brought out the best in that horse.

Wow, that's a good one. Look, I think every one of them. I can't think of one horse that hasn't come through our stable here that. That we haven't been able to make what we think better and be a better version of themselves? I think we've been very lucky in that way where every horse that comes through here has come out of here a better version of themselves. And I'm very proud to be able to say that as far as one standout. Oh, look. No, not really. There's. There are definitely horses when, as you go. And I've got. I mean, I've probably got three or four of them down there now, as you go through their training, you think to yourself, wow, I just. You really are a nice horse. Like the horse. Everything about the horse looks nice there.

So, yeah, you're. You sort of unlock potential as you go.

Yeah. And. And I mean, I often say to, you know, people, when we get horses in, whether it's an owner's horse or whether it's one we've bought, this horse will grow to fit, fit me, because, as you know, I'm tall. I'll say, this horse will grow to fit me and will I'm go, I'm pretty sure we're going to make this horse more beautiful than they are by nature. That means their eyes and ears, the way their neck develops, the way their body develops, the way they move, you know, and there's so many nuances in that, you know, just the way in which they move with that fluidity and that little quickness off the ground and spend more time in the air, they always look more beautiful. And especially then if they've got a lovely round neck and they've got lovely round sort of body and they're happy and they've got this lovely look about them, eyes and ears, you'll always make them look more beautiful than they would be just standing on a tree in the paddock. And so, yeah, I think to answer that question, yeah, they've all, they've all developed in that way. I'd like to think that our horses have a certain look and I'm sure other people's do too. I'm not trying to just say we're the only ones, but they always have a certain look and that, that is reflected. That all of what I just spoke about is reflected in that look. And I'd love to think, think that that's been able to be applied on all of the horses that have come through over the years.

Love that. Perfect note to end on. Thanks so much for the discussion today.

Pleasure. It's a good one. I like.