https://www.listennotes.com/e/46aee22598f14f1eb06aaa4aa6058a82

From performanceriders.com this is the Pabry Podcast. I'm Nat Foxen and each episode I challenge World equestrian Games top 10 dressage writer Brett Parbury to explain and discuss what I call a Parburyism. That's a pearl of wisdom I've written down over the years of working together in our performance writers programs. Brett doesn't know what today's Pabraism is. Let's get into it. Okay, Brett, I am ready for a new episode of the Pabri podcast. Are you ready for today's Pabrism?

Yes. Let me have it.

Okay. Today's Pabrism is equipment is only as good as the rider. Equipment is only as good as the rider. So I think with this, I think this is going to be a really interesting conversation and it's a really topical issue. I know certainly on social media we're seeing a lot of conversations about the use of spurs, whips, even double bridles. We're seeing a lot of talk around this. And even you the other day on performance writers social platforms, we had a little video with you talking about when you do and don't use the whip and what the whip is good for and what it's not good for and, and that post went crazy. So I know this is on people's minds. So do you want to give us the 101 on what you mean by equipment is only as good as a rider?

I mean, everything we use can be classed as equipment. You know, even the bit in the horse's mouth, the bridle, the saddle, even a bitless bridle, for goodness sakes. You know, anything that we use on a horse is under the label of equipment to be used to enjoy the horse. And the bits of equipment have been designed for a purpose and the purpose is to assist the rider or the trainer could be, you know, the trainer on the ground doesn't have to be the rider, but these bits of equipment are used to train the horse. So they're there as a tool for the rider, trainer to assist them to do whatever they want to do. So, you know, for dressage spurs, a dressage whip, various lunging gadgets that you'll see around the place, dare I say it, draw reins, you know, which have, which fall in the category. That's probably the. When you said, when you said that to me, then drawings are probably the first thing that pops in my mind as being a piece of equipment that was once invented for a purpose that became misused and therefore had a bad. Got a bad name. And it was the misuse that gave the equipment the bad name. Not that the equipment is bad, is bad. And that's the difference. It's how you use the equipment is the difference. I mean, anything, spurs, a bit, anything, even a bitless bridle, even a halter can be bad if it's used badly. So, you know, when we get back into that discussion, it's all about pressure, release. What is the softest version of the aid that you're looking your horse for your horse to respond to, and how that piece of equipment provides support to that conversation around that aid, that response to almost direct or show the horse into the better response, the clearer response, that the rider can then release the pressure. You know, like we often say, horsemanship or training horses is all about pressure and release. It's not all about pressure and it's not all about release. It's about pressure and release. And the equipment is there to bolster or back up an aid to the point where the horse gives a response and then the response is either repeated, released, rewarded, whatever, from there on.

So let's go through what you use. So obviously, you know, stating the bleeding obvious, you're riding in a saddle and a bridle. I think the things that people are going to be most interested in are the common sort of artificial aids that you would use. And you're not using anything crazy. You're using, you know, the standard sort of spurs, sometimes a whip, and of course, the double bridle you're using on your more advanced horses. Let's talk through these one by one and go through how you use these pieces of equipment and how you want them to be used. Should we start with the, the spurs? This is, you know, the spurs are ones that I hear a lot about. You know, I know whenever at a dressage rider posts video wearing spurs, they're often then hit with a barrage of criticism, you shouldn't be wearing spurs, etc. Etc. Even if they're nowhere near the horse. So tell us about your use of spurs.

Yeah, look, the spurs is one thing that can differ slightly as to the build of the rider. So my leg and where my spurs would sit on a horse's sides is sometimes different to a shorter person or a shorter person riding around a barreled horse. And the ability for me to be able to let my leg off sometimes is a little bit easier. But at the end of the day, and this is where knowledge is important. And I think that that often people who are commenting on you shouldn't be wearing spurs. Also, maybe don't have the same extent of knowledge to know what horse training is about. But. And the one comment I've never ever got my head around is when someone says, I need to get the horse better off my leg, so I'm not wearing spurs. So just to break that back down, the sequence of leg aids that you want to use on your horse starts with a light leg aid, generally from your calf or thereabouts. You know, like your calf, not your knee, but your calf, your inside of your calf. Just a little squeeze on the horse's side and it doesn't have to be much. As we know horses can feel a fly on them. So a little squeeze with your calf that has no spur involved, that should be the first pressure that someone uses. And it's an inward pressure around about where the girth would come up into the saddle thereabouts. Now, of course, like I said before, different build of rider, different build of horse might put that in a different spot. But generally your calf should be the very first aid. The next aid is either an increasing of the. This is assuming the horse is not responding to the aid. So the rider's given a light aid, no response. Then the next aid is something firmer. So that might be the calf again with maybe a light touch with your heel. Now if your heel has a spur on it, then not maximum with the spur, just calf. And maybe nice if it wasn't the heel, the spur. But if you're going to use your heels, you're probably going to touch them with the spur. But this is where the rider makes contact roughly around where the heels are. And then we're after a response. So because we can only reward a response. So if the horse doesn't respond, then what is the next aid? Right, so what's the next aid in the chain of sequence here? So oftentimes riders will go to the whip, and that's where I'm a bit against that. I'd prefer a rider to use the spur in a different way. So it might be like a little tak tak, tak tak tak, tuk tuk, little, like quick use or even a very light little scratch, not scratching hard. So you're hurting the horse. Because horses don't respond to pain, they respond to agitation. So something that becomes an agitation that becomes, I won't say unbearable, but like something that they just don't want anymore. You've got to prompt a reaction and then you can start molding the reaction into what you're you want. So a little like with your leg, which I can't explain that any better than that. That weird noise or a little scratch like, like a, like a tickle that someone. If you were sitting there and someone put their fingers in your ribs and started tick little bit. But something that creates a reaction from your horse. And as soon as the horse reacts in a positive way, you reward them. The alternative, and you reward them by pressure release and a reward. So the spur comes off and the leg comes off and you get a reward. You give them a reward. The alternative is the horse doubles down on the negative. Well, then we have to go on with something until we get a positive response. Right. Which is a different conversation altogether. But what we're after when you use the spur is some form of a positive reaction which is immediately released and then over time, as the horse learns that there's a sequence here, that the very first stage of the sequence was the calf. The next stage was a light touch and the next stage was something that was a bit unbearable. And I, and I wanted to, I wanted to respond and get away from it. And as soon as I got away from it, it went away and I got rewarded. Then the horse learns to respond to the calf, to the very light aid. And then that ties in with the philosophy of when it's done well, it should look easy and it should look easy because we're losing using light aids. So it's impossible to get a horse to understand that sequence. When you go either immediately to the spur or and immediately to a strong aid, there has to be a sequence of lighter to firmer and from the lightest, most invisible aid we have through to what we know we can get a response from, which is the spur. And, and that's why it's important in that moment not to introduce another aid, which is a whip on the backside. Because the horse then thinks back, it's. It's in a completely different spot. It's not even related to the same place on the horse where you want to start getting the horse to understand. When I touch you in this place, I expect this response. So to go and smack them in another place, it just confuses it completely. So it's best to get better skills. Now, of course, spurs are. As a famous, famous trainer once said, spurs on some people are like knives in the hands of a monkey. And, and that can be the case, right, because you have to have a steady lower leg and you have to have a secure lower leg, which is why the importance of good riding comes in. Because if you are going to use this equipment, you've got to be able to have control over it and not have rubbing on the horse's sides and going on and off and on and off because we want every aid to mean something.

Yeah.

Is that, does that make. Is that a good.

I think it really does. That really makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, hearing you speak about. What we're trying to aim for here is to have aids that are almost invisible. And I think then to my mind, the spurs help us achieve that. In that you can give. You can actually, if you're working your way up that sequence of aids you described, you can give the horse a tiny, almost invisible touch with the spur. That's going to be far more effective than. And not enough better for the horse. Quieter aid for everybody versus if you didn't have it, you'd have to have a lot more movement with the leg. So it actually allows you to give a quieter aid.

Yeah. Now, if somebody can get those responses without spurs. Great. Like, that's really good. And some horses don't need it. Right. So, I mean, I have horses that I don't wear spurs on, so. And they're very sensitive. That's great. But that doesn't fit all horses and. But the most important part is that the rider has control of the spur with a steady lower leg and that they're not. Then the spur doesn't become overused, you know, or sometimes you see. And this is again a bit of a confirmation thing, short rider, big barrel horse. But a rubbed. A rubbed patch on a horse's sides, well, that is completely overuse of spur in a very rubbing friction, not a responsive way where the horse responds. And then the rider lets the leg down and off and it's just this leg that's always on, on, on, on, on, and that just makes the horse dull. And then of course, when you got spurs on, rubs the sides of them and in some instances almost delaminates. I've seen. This is awful. Where the horse's skin on the side goes a bit different. Funny. So that's. Spurs are there to. To create a response and then they need to be put away. And it's a bit like you only use them when you need them. Once you've got your horse schooled, you very seldom have to use them. Yeah. And. And that's the other thing is like, just because someone's got them on doesn't mean they're using them. Right.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got horses that I don't even touch them with disperse.

Yeah.

They're only there Just in case the horse decides, oh, I'm going to push against that aid and I'll go, no, no, no, you're not. And when they respond, good, remember, and that's great. And then you get this clear communication oftentimes, and this is probably the thing that will, that will come out of this session is it's sometimes easier for a horse to learn what to do by never ever realizing the bad things to do. And if you can have a little bit of equipment at the time to go, no, no, don't push there. Remember this, this will be annoying. And when they move off it, remember that's a reward now. And they never, ever learn the wrong thing to do. And they, Those horses tend to go through their life with a much calmer attitude and in training than ones that have been allowed to see, see a resistance way, like, okay, you know, of the horse knows if I push hard enough against that aid, it might go away. Or if I stop now and threaten, this pressure might go away. Well, those horses, they have this level of angst in their training that's very hard to get out of them.

I think that's so amazing what you've just said there. And that's reminds you of, you know, being a parent, that those firm boundaries actually serve the children or the horses in this case, so much better through their lives.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And they just, they. We often say the quickest way to get a good horse is to make it yourself rather than someone, you know, dropping one off or a problem one, because then it's a quicker path. Once they know your aids and what you how to respond to them, it's almost quicker to go through the process.

Just a quick message from us. If any of the ideas discussed today resonate with you and you'd love to dive deeper, head over to performanceriders.com there's a bunch of free content for you. And there's loads of opportunities as well to work with us by enrolling in one of our training or mentoring programs, performance riders dot com. You've mentioned that you don't find the whip effective to use as a backup to, you know, a leg that's asking for a sort of more forward, more energy. So what do you use the dressage whip for?

So I'll use it one as a way of developing the technique of the horse in collection. So the whip is going to reach back to the point of buttocks and the hips and on top of the croup and down beside and in some instances down near the horse's belly, like down near where your leg goes. So the whip's going to get down to these or back to these areas where you'd like to create a little response. Again, I, I would sort of say to riders, try to use the whip with a really good feel. Like, don't just go smack and think that that's going to be the aid. Like, try to use it where you have again, a sequence of response of aids. So, for example, if I'm carrying the whip and I'm doing some piaff work or whatever it might be, and I'm trying to work on the technique of my horse to tuck their hips a little bit lower or become a little bit more active in a hind leg or something like that, I'll have the whip off the horse, like carrying it sort of over my leg and off the horse. My first aid there. If I'm not getting the responses that I'm looking for from my leg and from, you know, from the combination of my, you know, activating from my leg and the half hole, I'll then give the whip a little wave, just a little like, swish, swish, to see if the horse notices that out of their eye. And then if, if the horse doesn't respond to that, then I'll go swish, swish, little tap, quick one. And if the horse gives me a great response, I'll. I'll release all pressure and reward them, even let them sort of go out through the front just to say, good. Notice the tap. Sorry, Notice the swish. Next time when I ask you to do it, I want you to respond to the swish of the whip, not the actual smacking or tapping of the whip. Because I don't want to. I don't want to be smacking horses with the whip. Like, I don't like it. I don't think they like it, to be honest. So I try to use the little swish, just a little movement of the tail of the whip to mean something. And then if it doesn't, of course, then I go swish and then little tap. And once you get a horse to respond to that, you very seldom, you can just wave it near their backside or wave it near their hip or wave it on top of their crib. And they'll respond like they, once they learn the response that you want from the aid, they're happy enough to do it. Like, they don't necessarily want to get smacked or kicked or pulled or whatever. Like. Yeah, so having a sequence with the whip is also very important. And I think that the only other thing, apart from using the whip as a technique, like assisting with the technique of collection of if I want to try and shape my horse's posture, is that I might take it and carry it down in my leg. And when I'm doing some rising trot or sitting trot, just to get my horse to be a bit more excitable, to just get them to try a bit harder. So if I'm trotting or cantering and I. And I. And if I'm not quite getting the response I want from the leg, I'll carry the whip down in my leg and I'll just give it a little swish and maybe a little tap on their belly just to get them a bit more excited and a bit more. And trying that extra length. And then as soon as I do that. And that's often. That often follows the fact that I've tried to create something for my leg. So there's a sequence there as well. That's what I try to reward them when they're really trying hard underneath me. That's the only other time I use it.

Let's talk about the double bridle. This is another piece of equipment that often, you know, on the good old Internet, people jump on. Why are you riding a double? La, la, la. I mean, the truth is, it's, at the moment, it's part of the sport. So what's your take on the double and how you want to see people and how you want to yourself use that?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a part of the sport. It's. It's. It's part of the challenge. And I'd like to. I'd like to see how successful the people who are making those comments have been in their career in dressage. Because part of the challenge that we take on is actually training the horses to accept the double and. And not. Not treat it like a. A punishing tool, you know, like accepting. Teaching a horse to accept the double and that There's a whole degree of horsemanship that's involved in that, firstly by getting the appropriate bits, so bits that fit the horse comfortably and that aren't uncomfortable for the horse to wear, and then teaching the horse to respond 80% from the snaffle, maybe 90% from the snaffle. But then when you're putting in so much energy from the back end that then you may need occasionally to use the curb bit to get the horse to give you a little bit more. Give you a little bit more relaxation over the top line while they're up and working, but again, it's momentary and then you back it off again. So again, a snaffle bridle can be equally used badly. Let me say also here. No, like at the beginning I said pressure and release. It's not all about pressure and it's not all about release. Someone riding around, releasing, releasing, releasing with the horse's neck in the air and the back down is awful for a horse. That is punishment to their back. So someone with a snaffle on and not putting any pressure on the reins and trying to do collected work is detrimental to a horse. Their horses aren't even mechanically moving like they should in nature and they're the ones that end up doing injuries to suspensories because they're loading their joints in a way which is not using their back and using their core and putting even, even weight distribution across all four legs. So back to the double. Teaching the horse to respond to the snaffle, not having to use the curb is the ultimate. If you need to use it, it again, it's a tool that gets used and released. Pressure and released. There's a fair bit of skill involved in that and it's. But of course with practice you can get it right and, and yeah, making sure the bits are appropriately fitted. Now, I'm, I'm not sort of for or against it from a traditional perspective. I think if someone can do a Grand Prix and a snaffle, good luck to them. That's great. Not all horses are the same. Some horses have a much stronger construction through the neck and pollen jaw and they press a little more into the reins and they're probably not quite as easy to put together from the back to the front with the snaffalon and possibly need a little bit more there because remember that, that if a horse is unable to be trained to the level that we want to get them to through good horsemanship and good training and if people want to discuss, like have it where you only use a snaffle and that horse is unable to be trained at that level, that horse is deemed useless for the sport of dressage and therefore that horse has no future. So we've got to be careful about the, the, you know, the direction in which the world wants to go with this. Of course, no cruelty double bridle at fit chains that are chains that are appropriate and padded and nose bands that are appropriate and padded and the likes. But the ultimate response is for the horse to feel some form of pressure yield to it. The rider relaxes the pressure and the horse learns to work in a really comfortable way and is developed over time to work in that way. And so doubles are more than good tools suitable have stood the test of time, but in the wrong hands again can be, can be bad. Like any bit in a horse's mouth can be bad with the wrong person hanging onto the other end of the reins.

And when we're us riders are analyzing our own use of the double bridle specifically, what are some red flags or common issues that you're seeing that we want to watch out for as riders?

I think just ongoing strong pressure in the reins. I think when you're riding around asking yourself the question is, is this contact adjustable? It doesn't have to be light. It doesn't have. It does. You don't want it strong and you don't want it, you know, wooden and resistant, but is it adjustable? If I, and also if I was to relax the pressure to zero, what happens here? Like if I was to ride along, sitting trot and just push my hands towards the horse's mouth by 1cm and remove the pressure from the bit, what happens? Does my horse fall flat on his face and pull long or does he kind of keep himself there a little bit in self carriage? And then can I take the contact on both sides and can I ask for flexion? And is it adjustable? Like I said, it doesn't have to be light. You don't want it to be overly strong, but you need it to be comfortable for you and the horse and adjustable into the shapes for the level you're training. So you know, as you got the levels, of course, the shapes of the horse that we make, half passes and the likes, we need to be able to make those shapes without resistance. And that's where teaching the horse to respond to the contact is, is a very important part of that. And that's with a snaffle or a double. And and of course, the more, the higher we go through the levels and the more collection that is required and the horse becomes shorter through their whole body more elevated with more energy and suspension off the ground, the horse then comes into a better self carriage. And therefore ultimately over time the whole horse should become lighter and not necessarily just light in the hands like the whole, you want lightness to be through the whole horse from their feet, shoulders, neck, back, everything becomes lighter through, you know, energy and collection. So I think a red flag there is, do you feel like you're pulling backwards and holding on and the horse is just having to brace itself to, to to put up with this. Is the horse not adjustable? Are there any mouth issues? You know, is the horse telling you via opening their mouth, crossing their jaw, hanging their tongue out, all these things gr. You know, that it's not happy with. It's not happy and the comfort's not there. And remember, it is all about just trying to train them to the point of comfort, so. Because then they're most likely to want to do it again. So our job is to keep using. This is where it's hard. It's complicated. Is. Is using pressure and release to show uncomfortable, comfortable, uncomfortable, comfortable. And that's the conversation you're having all the time is to say, no, don't pop out through there or don't lean over here. Respond to this. Now you're comfortable again. And there might be 10,000 little aids that happen in a writing session that's going, no, don't do that. Now you're comfortable. Don't do that. Now you're comfortable. And that's. You're ultimately trying to keep them in this comfortable place and then they develop the right muscles and then they become, you know, they don't. You don't have half the issues, Brett.

Now, this might be. This is a tricky topic, this one. This particular piece of equipment is definitely a little bit controversial, but let's go there. Let's talk about the use of draw reins. When is that appropriate? When is it not? What is the. The good and bad use of that equipment? And you might need to also describe what that is for people as well.

Yeah, I mean, I don't mind being controversial because I'm fairly comfortable with. With why things were developed and how they're supposed to be used.

So.

So drawings, the reason they're called drawings is because they're supposed to. They're supposed to promote the drawing action of a horse's neck forwards, downwards. So when it comes to posture, or as we call it in. In performance, riders, frame control, there's. There's what you're after from the posture of a dressage horse or any horse that you need to use their back, is that they reach. They'll reach forwards, inwards, downwards, in a round shape, not upwards and backwards. So for anyone listening, you know, if you see a rider and anything happening momentarily is irrelevant, but if you see a horse's way of going all the time, where the neck is upwards, backwards, and the poles coming up, but the nose is pulling upwards and the whole top line is getting tight and. And there's tension in the top line, that is a Horse, you know, hollow, tightening their back, not using their core muscles, not lifting up through their core and using their back properly. And what you're after, the opposite end of upwards and backwards, is a horse reaching forwards, downwards, inwards, even when the poll is at the highest point. So the ultimate thing is the horse is up in the pole when they're, when they're really up and going and their neck is reaching forwards, inwards, downwards, which means they're over their back, their whole back is letting go and they're engaging their core muscles. And that's what we want, right? So. And that's called drawing. So when a horse draws its neck forward, that's what most people are wanting. And the reason draw ends are called that is because they're supposed to promote drawing. Now the, the one thing there is that when in the wrong hands, and unfortunately this has happened way too often, they can be used. They're like a. They're like a triangular shaped, just the two reins, big long reins, and they go in a triangle. They go down from their rider's hand through the bit and back to the girth. Now, sometimes between the legs, sometimes back to the side of the girth, but. And it's on both sides. And it's supposed to. If the horse gets a little bit strong or resistant against the connection and wants to pull their neck upwards backwards, these reins are supposed to engage, put an extra bit of resistance here so the rider doesn't have to sort of get too handy. Lets the rider provide a stability, like a stable resistance that's enabled to be controlled and moved as the rider wants to make things uncomfortable. And the horse feels this. And then after a while the horse goes, well, that's too firm, I'll yield to them. And when they yield, the reins go loose and the rider rewards the horse and the rider's contact softens so the horse goes back into comfort again. And that was the way these reins were designed. But unfortunately, too many inexperienced riders have chose, had, had used them in a way where they were always pulled on. And that's the equivalent of always having your spurs in the horse's belly or always having your hands pulling the bits backwards. So any aid, any tool or aid that's used all the time is suddenly useless to the situation. So draw reins that are used all the time being pulled inwards, downwards to keep a horse's head down. The horse is just resisting them anyway and the gears only holding them in a shape. It's a false, it's a false sense of achievement. And you know, but used in the right hands where they, where they're spending 90% of the time just swinging, just hanging and swinging and just loose. And when the horse wants to go against the rider in a moment, when the rider's asking a little bit more from the horse and if the reins engage the right, the horse and the rider doesn't have to get too handy in that moment, the rider can just be like, no, I'm just going to sit this through. And the horse feels it and then the horse lets go over that top line. That's when they're used the best and that's what they were designed for. And yeah, you can say the same with any tool that puts a horse in a round shape. That was what they were designed for. But again, use wrong, use the bad way. No good.

When we're done with pabrisms, we might start a new series of Pabri's controversial conversations.

Yeah, I know, but I'm happy to have those conversations because I think it's just a lack of knowledge that. And it's. At the end of the day, it really is about getting the right knowledge. And all of this keeps triangulating back to the common goal of pressure and release. Great horsemanship, improving your skills. And the good rider will always bring the best out in the horse.

What a note to end on. This has been such a fascinating and topical discussion. Thank you very much, Brett.

Pleasure. Thanks, Nat.