https://www.listennotes.com/e/4883c79aec4a4c25b698e7fc05dea267

From performanceriders.com this is the Pabry podcast. I'm Nat Foxen and each episode I challenge World equestrian Games top 10 dressage writer Brett Parbury to explain and discuss what I call a Parburyism. That's a pearl of wisdom I've written down over the years of working together in our performance writers programs. Brett doesn't know what today's Pabraism is. Let's get into it. Today's poverty ism is one that said a little bit tongue in cheek, bit of funny one. And it is that a nice accent isn't a reason to book a clinic. Brett Parbury I mean, what does that like, does an Australian accent count or what do you mean by that quote?

Oh, look, I'll probably get myself in trouble for this one. Look, I think what I'm leaning to with that is that look, riders have got to look deeper into the, the person giving the clinic or the coaching. So look deeper into their philosophy of training.

Where they've done most of their training. Like learn the history of the person. Don't just sign up because they're from a foreign country or from another country.

You know, or from another city, for example. Like it's nothing to do with location. Of course, we all know that dressage is dominated by the Europeans, specifically the Germans. But you can also get, you know, coaches in Germany that just don't have the same philosophy as what that you.

Would have as a writer.

So it's important that your philosophies kind of match or at least if the other person's philosophy of training complements yours or can add into your training little holes that may be in your training and not just going to the clinic and saying, oh, I'm just going to.

Ride and you just tell me what you see. Like that's just so random and such a bad way to gain information.

Okay, so let's say we hear that there's a visiting clinician from, you know, an exotic sounding country where we think they do dress as well and they've got the lovely accent and they probably charge a lot of money. We think, yes, this will be definitely worth going to. I'm going to sign up, I'm going to go along. Don't really know much about them, have never seen them teach. But going to go along and ride, what can go wrong in that scenario? Like what worries you about that?

You've pretty much just described the whole visiting clinician scene really in Australia.

Look, I think.

What, look, I'm only.

Going to repeat what I've heard from.

People who have done exactly that.

And I've done it myself.

Right. I've done it myself. But I often hear people get disappointed.

Now, I don't believe that's the clinician's.

Fault, and I don't believe it's the fault of the, the people going to the clinic.

Right.

I, I think it's a fault of the situation. Now, what would be better? Let's say so. So, you know, because the clinician is just.

They're put in a situation where they're standing there. They've never seen this combination ever in their life. They've come from a country where there's certain expectations and in their own writing.

And with their own training, there's certain expectations. And then they, they start to enforce those expectations.

And of course, oftentimes this goes worse.

Before it goes better. Now, the rider then has a hard couple of days and they come away with a view that the clinician didn't help them at all, like, but, but they don't. They only got like a very small slither of that person's whole phosphate and life experience in that particular moment. You know, what would be better is to. And when we did this, actually as an experiment with the American writers, before I went to the States, the last time was to have an online session for an hour, maybe an hour and two hour and a half. Sorry to just describe, okay, this is what I'm going to expect. This is sort of where I come from.

This is my philosophy and this is.

How I would like to see it done. This is the sort of things I.

Expect from my own writing and from.

My people I work with regularly.

And this is what I'm going to.

Be really looking for. And, and what I, what I'd love you to come away with once I'm, you know, once we're there, I'll flesh.

It out more on the ground when.

I'm there, but this is where I'm coming from. So immediately you're in, you're in a better place because you've pre. Warned them about what you expect from the fundamentals, you know, their fundamental writing, what you'd like to get across and where you'd like to take it. And you've got a much better chance of, you know, achieving that, but also the, the writers understanding where that information's coming from and why you're being so strict on certain things.

Yeah.

And you know, hopefully you're getting the.

Rider better value for money and clarity.

You know how I always go on about clarity, that it's the horse that benefits from clarity. So, yeah, I think.

I mean, in those situations, like when we do go to a clinic, you know, we. That's one thing that can happen is that the writer comes away disappointed. And I know you're being pretty diplomatic, but I'm going to push you on this. I mean, do you think that sometimes it will be great? Of course. But if it's the wrong match, can that be. Can that set us back or damage our training progress in some way?

Well, it doesn't even have to be the wrong match because it could be a wonderful lesson. Like you could have two wonderful lessons and come away going, wow, that was great.

But unless it has plugged into a training structure, right. That you're getting complimented, it'll.

Within a week it's gone.

And then all of a sudden you're trying to find it and then you're on a tangent and tangents will take you nowhere. So. So it can be bad or good. Doesn't matter.

What's more important is the information you get.

You know exactly how that fits into your training. You know exactly how you got there and what, what fundamentals that you had in place to get you there. And you know, if things go wrong in the future, okay, this is what got me there in the first place. You know exactly how to backfill the info. So. Because sometimes if someone comes and for example, say the rider is. Has. Is in a system of training where they're making the horses quite hot, active from a reaction from their leg and getting the horses a bit more sensitive and hot and working a lot harder. And then someone comes along and says, okay, no, no, you need to wrap your leg around the horse a bit more and, and like tone down those responses and make them smoother.

Well, that person's right. But then what happens is that rider.

Goes away and.

Where they had the.

Benefit of the prior training in the lessons.

In the lessons with the person is.

The horse was responsive.

And then they toned it all down.

And they got these lovely sort of reactions that weren't crazy and weren't over the top and they had three great lessons, but then they follow that and all of a sudden the horse becomes duller and they've gone completely off philosophy. They're on, but they don't know how to get their responses right the other way. Well, then all of a sudden they go on a tangent for six months.

Yeah.

And probably end up coming back to what they were doing, getting better, quicker responses. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that's probably not the best example. But you know, it's, it's often around that, it's often around a really fundamental like underlying fundamental like okay, how do your horses to respond? How, how what posture to put your horses in? How's your half halt work? You know, of course the instructor is going to bring some great exercises. You know, that's, you know. But as we always say, the exercises are for the riders and the aids.

Are for the horses.

Exercises just make riders put the correct aids on. But it's, it'll often be a bit of an underlying fundamental thing that the visiting instructor will.

Yeah.

Change or tweak and then of course going into the future that that writer doesn't know. So it often will put you on a tangent unless you've really, you really know exactly how this fits into your system.

I think also, you know, I've seen, and again, this is not the fault of the clinician, like you said, it's just sort of the situation I've seen potentially really rider coach relationships cease because the rider goes down a tangent based on the clinic and thinks that they need to go in a different direction than that, that they were on with the coach, which was probably a good direction. But they don't sort of have the full picture in mind from the clinician. And it's a real shame because like you always say, consistency, consistency, consistency and you know, all of a sudden we sort of get off track.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. It's, it's all about consistency. It really is all about consistency and, and yeah, it's a show. I know some situations like that as well. It's a real shame.

Yeah.

That the interaction from a visiting clinician.

Can make someone completely change their direction.

Now unless you've got that support network of, of a coach that either can.

Slip into place, it's a bit more.

Aligned with the way that clinician was going. You are just completely taking yourself out of what was a. Probably a. You know, it doesn't have to be a world class training system to get you where you want to go. It just has to be consistent.

Yeah. A system. Yeah. So I mean look, clinics are fun, right? They're a bit of fun. They're something different, it's something novel. So how would you like to see us writers include clinics in our training programs in a way that is beneficial and isn't going to set us back or damage some, you know, a nice system that we're already a part of? So what are some practical things that we can do to sort of figure out that this particular clinician has got, you know, our own individual tick of approval.

I think first of all is look.

At the way they. They ride or train or people they ride with or train, and look at.

The way they ride and see whether.

That fits with how you want to ride. Yeah. Now, for example.

You know, you might.

Be a small lady and the clinician's this big, tall guy, right, who's quite strong and firm. And you think, okay, well, unless that person can relate to me and get horses responding better, you know, they are going to rely, you know, ride in a different way. But I would look at the way.

They ride or people they train and.

See if that fits with what you want to do. Like, then I'd look at kind of some background of where they've come from, you know, through what system and what thing. I would try and work out what are their strengths? Because everyone has strengths and weaknesses. I'd work out, what are their strengths, how do their strengths fit into my.

Training, what I'm training?

So it could be a Piafmeister coming out from Spain, or it could be something and then trying to really narrow down what you want to take away from the clinic. So, yeah, let's say it is a PR person coming from Spain and you go, look, I really, you know, I think I've got my horse set up, ready to start. Can you show me how you start it and what I should be looking for and you know, and really ask questions around that specific skill, that strength of that.

That coach and even go deeper with.

It and say, look, what fundamentals do you or what foundations do you need to have to put you in a place before you start PR for whatever it might be? So, you know, do you need a.

Good walk, trot transition? Do you need a horse that's trotting.

In front of your leg? Do you need adjustability in the trot under saddle? Do I need to have lunged my horse or double lunged or, you know, started some in hand work or really try and learn the whole process the day, put in practice for whatever their skill is. Their best skill could be half passes. They might write amazing half passes and just ask them, really drill down on exactly what it is and then start to go, okay, well, now I know what fundamentals they use or what they want.

Now I know kind of the way.

In which they do it and how they work through it and what reactions they need. Have I got that in my horse?

Do I have it in my horse? Or do I need to go back.

To basics and get things a bit better.

Is there someone on the ground who.

Was at the clinic or maybe organized the clinic who can, who shares that philosophy, who can follow up with me on this and become very targeted and very specific as to what you want to get from those lessons? Of course, I agree these clinics can be fun. You know, you, you go there and you have a lesson with some famous writer from overseas, but don't make their job harder by, you know, chair like letting them just choose what you're doing on the day, like become very specific about what you want to get from them.

They're only there for a short time.

You're there to try and find out a couple of things that fit into your program.

Just a quick message from us. If any of the ideas discussed today resonate with you and you'd love to dive deeper, head over to performanceriders.com there's a bunch of free content for you and there's loads of opportunities as well to work with us by enrolling in one of our training or mentoring programs, performanceriders.com so the part reason we're talking about today is a nice accent isn't a reason to book a clinic. Now, I can imagine that some writers listening to what you've just been saying about, you know, how we can be quite proactive in discussing with a clinician what we'd like to work on after we've done our research about them. I just want to dive into that, dig into that a little bit deeper because I feel like some writers would be thinking, who am I to show up to this lesson with this famous writer from overseas and tell them what to work on. But Brett, you've done loads and loads of clinics to people you don't know these days. Mostly you only teach people in the program. But I mean, would. Would that have bothered you if someone sort of turns up and takes control a little bit?

I think in the past, certainly when.

I was less like, let's say, philosophical, I suppose, about how coaching should be and a bit more of that old sort of writing lesson mentality. But now I have taken a lot of time to learn about and understand coaching at a professional level across every other discipline in sport.

I mean, there are times when the.

Writer has to shut up and listen, like, there's no doubt.

Right?

But, but I just don't think a coach should deprive the writer of like, actually really understanding this concept by being an ignorant ass, you know, Can I say that?

You just did.

That's true. Like, why, like they're paying you to Be there and, and, and give them the respect of trying to help them solve the puzzle. And because it is difficult to learn, the concepts are often hard to get our heads around. So don't like. And if I guess. And look, I understand that.

It'S daunting.

But you're not really telling the rider, the coach, what you want to do.

You are.

You're saying, this is what I'd like to do. This would be my wish list for what I want to get from three days with you.

I probably.

I'm not there, but I wouldn't mind if I'm not there to work on these things. Take me back to where I need to be and then tell me how I get to where I've got to go. Like what? You know, just, you know, but this is, this, this is the, this is the thing. I don't want to 20 candle for 20 minutes and then trot for 20 minutes and walk for 10 minutes and just do this standard old riding lesson.

Right, right.

Where we just go, scatter gun approach. Just show me what you're doing and I'll pick bits. You know, a bit more of this, more forward, you know, a bit more shoulder. Like, that's not good enough.

Not, not today.

Like, we need to be better, like coaches and clinicians, we need to be.

Like, better at coaching our athletes.

So they come away. Because, like, I'm very passionate about the fact that it's the horse that gets.

The benefit of this.

It's not the rider, it's the horse that gets the benefit, the ultimate benefit.

So where do you see or how do you see that mix? Ideally for riders between the, the local coach, which, you know, hopefully they have access to, but maybe not. Maybe it's online, whatever. Where do you see that mix between the regular coach, let's say, and visiting clinicians? I mean, is. Yeah. Where do you see that mix?

Well, you'd hope, you'd hope that some.

Of the local coaches are getting a chance to get to the visiting clinician or at least are invested enough in the rider, the athlete, to ask them about what they worked on or even give them direction and have a little pre.

Yeah.

Pre clinic meeting and say, look, I can't make it this weekend, but, you know, such and such is great at riding pirouettes. Can you just get them to break that down? Like actually come up with a formula for the rider to help them and give them the confidence to ask.

A lot of this is in communication.

You know, just being better communicators and I think being A better communicator is in.

Having the time for the rider.

Like just giving the rider more time. And, and often coaches like myself, we're time poor and the last thing you feel like doing is talking to someone about their clinic with someone in a week's time, you know, at 8:00 clock at night.

Well, I mean, that's why your programs exist, you know.

Well, that, yeah, that's true, but I think it all is in communication and it's, it's just all trying to, you know, just trying to all get better at it, trying to improve.

And what about in the frequency, in terms of the frequency mix? Like, what would you like to see your writers doing in terms of how often they're working with the regular coach versus, you know, either a regular clinician or a, you know, once a year, whatever it is, one off clinician.

Look, I think once a year is not going to get anything, you know.

Really.

If you, if you see that there's someone from overseas who, you know, they're obviously they're mixing in circles that are, have got far more.

Competitive tension, so they're having to be at the top of their game.

So you. We need overseas influences. We, whether we live in Australia, America, New Zealand, wherever, or whether we're in Europe itself, you know, we need influences from people who are performing at a higher level because they are mixing in that circle. That's where the information should theoretically be better.

Once a year will do nothing but confuse you.

Like that's, that's a waste of time. Waste time, money.

Three times a year.

Like do you expect someone to come out here, make a big trip three times a year? I think is, is also a lot, but if you can get them to go on three times, they, you know.

It should be at least two times.

You know, and I guess you'd say, you could always say this, this applies to master classes as well. You know, the one off master class that happens every year or, or every two years.

Again, go to these things equipped with.

What you want to learn from, like what you want to bring home from that master class that fits into your system or what you want to come home from that clinic. So yeah, couple times a year with the, with the, with the big, the big gun and then the local coach, you know, two weeks, one week. Yeah, Once a month, depending on what you can afford or the access to them together with some video reviewing at home with someone who you trust, you know, could be family member or partner, you know, just some, some sort of. And I just think what I'm describing there is ultimately the best way to improve and progress in a situation which is pretty stock standard for everybody I know in Australia and New Zealand, like, and even in America, like, most people are training remotely. Like, most people are training on their own. And less than once a week, every two weeks, as you get more remote once a month, but then with a video. Video Reviewing the visiting instructor that comes in. Yeah, I always try and make sure, like, if I am doing a clinic somewhere, I always try and make sure that I am connected to a local, to. To the main coach of that area.

Yeah.

Because it's important that I can have a conversation with them and say, with this writer, I saw this, and that coach might go, you know what? I've been. I've been saying that forever. I'm like, okay, well, at least we're.

On the same page now.

We have to work out why it's not happening. You know, let's maybe think about trying something different with them.

That's the ideal situation, really, isn't it? When you're. Once in a while, two or three times a year, that clinician is. Is connected with your regular coach. I mean, that's really something great.

You just, you know, ultimately, we're tr. We're trying to. And look, I could say 99% of coaches really want the best for their riders. And, you know, they've got other influences, but they do want the best for their riders. And I think, you know, they don't mind talking about the rider and saying, you know, what did you do? What did you do here? What do you think about this? And if you can have that debrief. That's always a good thing with the clinician. I try and I try and do that. I try and include the coach with me because there's no point me coming in. I could come in, give the best.

Lesson the riders ever had, but unless.

They can repeat that.

Yeah.

Afterwards, there's no. That's a waste of time.

That's right.

So it's better to have the coach involved and get them understanding and even.

Achieve less in the lesson, but make.

Sure everyone's on the same page. That would. That would do more for the future.

Oh, for sure. Just a final point. Not strictly related to clinics, but when you're talking about the frequency that, you know, writers should look to have lessons, as we call them, which is a silly word, but anyway. Can writers be overcoached?

Yeah, and I think it's probably. We do call it lessons, but we really should refer to as Coaching. Because it is, it is coaching.

It's a sport.

And we're getting, you know, coached. Yeah.

Over coaching 100.

Because what that is. And, and I think this is another area where the dressage and even equine industry, we, we have gotten into this pattern of. This is the style in which we coach. You start writing, I start talking, and I'll just talk, talk and, you know, tell you what to do and you just do it. Like a puppet.

That's right.

Well, that is like, no one really benefits from that.

The horse probably does on the day.

Because you're getting the rider to, you know, get a better ride, do less and like just kind of, you know, be this puppet. But unless the rider really knows how they did it, it's no point. And then what happens is the moment you take that voice away in an.

Overcoaching situation, you leave the rider. They don't have the ability to think for themselves.

So I think that when us coaching in the business need to really look and experiment. Not saying I know the perfect formula, but what I'm saying is we need to experiment with better ways of coaching.

Like, I can still remember.

Really famous.

Rider trainer Harry Bolt.

Right, Harry Bolt. I mean, probably there's no one more famous on the planet when it comes to dressage. And when Harry used to coach, he doesn't do anymore. But when he used to coach people that would coach, get coach. Oh, he doesn't say much.

And then.

Which he didn't feel the need. He had to until something needed fixing. And it probably was a better way because he was making the writer think for themselves.

Yeah.

Versus.

Possibly more modern coaching, which, I.

Mean, Harry, you could say comes from an older style coaching to more modern coaching, where we believe we've got to say something all the time because we keep them engaged. Which, yeah, maybe we are overdoing it.

Maybe we're not letting them think for themselves. Maybe.

And this is what I've been playing with. I've been playing with the concept of just asking my riders lots of questions when they're riding. So, you know, what, what trot is that? Is it?

And they go working trot. And I go, perfect.

That is working trot. It's you. It's a good working trot, you know, now let's make a transition to collected trot. And the rider does it and you go, okay, does that feel like collected trot? Oh, no, it feels a bit slow. So you're getting, you're getting this feedback all the time and you're drawing their.

Awareness to certain things.

Yeah.

And then hopefully that then prompts them to draw their own awareness. Then when they're both.

Yeah. Then they feel more confident about.

You.

Know, doing things, riding with effectiveness, doing them. And if they make a mistake, it's no problem. They feel confident that, well, this is.

What I need to do. Rather than second guessing themselves.

Because second guessing yourself just makes it.

Hard for the horse.

Riders get frustrated and takes you nowhere. And then, and then of course you're looking for tangents. Then of course you throw yourself in the position of getting a, a magic bullet lesson from a local, from a visiting instructor. And yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll just finish this by saying we've heard this a thousand times, but I still think people believe that magic bullets exist. They do not exist. There's no such thing. There is no such thing as a quick fix to anything. There'll be some ideas. There'll be an idea. There'll be. Try this. Put your hand here, take the shoulders over here. But there's no such thing as a magic bullet.

Yeah. I always say that to people, like, there are no advanced strategies. You think you're going to unlock these advanced strategies. They're not there. The good writers are just doing the fundamentals to a really great level.

That's it. That's it.

And.

As much as we'd all like them to be there where they're not. And, and, and that's where I think the, the, the, the, that sort of brings us in a complete loop back.

To the beginning of.

Just because someone comes from another country, just because, because they have an accent doesn't mean they're armed with magic bullets to fix your problems.

I absolutely love it. Perfect way to wrap up this conversation. And I think it's going to give us all a lot of food for thought the next time we go to assess, really assess whether someone is the right fit for us at the right time. And. Yeah, thank you, Brad. Great conversation.

Right, thanks Nat.