Brian Gubernick On Upping Your Self-Awareness, Masterminds & Harnessing the Collective Genius in a Room — Next Level Agents: The Kevin & Fred Show - Interviews with the best and brightest minds in the real estate industry

Hey guys, welcome to the Next Level Agents Podcast. I am your host, Kevin Kaufman, and along with my business partner and co-host Fred Weaver, we bring to you our podcast all about getting to the next level. Sometimes we talk to real estate agents, sometimes brokers, sometimes people just in and around our space, and sometimes just entrepreneurs in general. But our point here is to talk to the brightest and the best and to pull golden nuggets out of them and bring them to you so that way you can take little actionable pieces of advice, sometimes big actionable pieces of advice, and make your business even better and help you get to the next level. Do me a favor, if you haven't already, go over to ratethispodcast.com. ratethispodcast.com/NLA stands for Next Level Agents. And please leave us a 5-star review if you have not already. All right, without further ado, welcome to today's episode. All right guys, we are back on the Next Level Agents podcast, and today I'm joined by I guess kind of a returning guest in a way. Brian Gubernick. Brian, what's going on, man?

What's going on? Yeah. Kevin, I think you, Fred, myself, we've been doing things together for 15+ years now. That's crazy to that. Yeah, probably 15 years. Pretty darn close. So yeah, I guess I'm recurring. I can show up.

Oh, you know, it's funny. I was referring to the fact I think I played the audio from You did— you've done a couple things now at some of our masterminds, but I did— I took the recording off of the one you did around life and time last year and ran that as an episode, I don't know, a month or two ago because that was pretty good. But you're right, man. We've done— for anybody who's, who's been watching or listening to stuff the three of us have to say from the short sale days, we have— we've got probably more videos recorded together than any of us care to really admit.

Yeah, we do. That, that's not an endorsement to go to YouTube and watch any of these things because we all look ridiculous. Yeah. Um, Fred especially, he looks absolutely ridiculous. No, I'm just kidding. But, but, uh, yeah, we've got a few things out there. But it's cool. I remember, I totally forgot about that, but you had told me you had rerun that, that Time deal a couple months ago, which which I appreciate because I'm, well, you know me, I'm pretty fired up around that topic. I know you feel the same. So I'm glad you got that one out there.

No doubt. We, so Brian, let's do this real quick before, 'cause you and I could just go into it and never actually get to anything specific. Tell the listener that doesn't know you yet, like who are you? What do you do? And then I'll give some background, kind of how our paths crossed and, some of the things that we'll talk about today.

Yeah, sure. So, so Brian Gubernick, I'm here in Scottsdale, Phoenix area, Arizona, and I've been in real estate since really '05, got licensed in '06 and actually started actively selling in 2007, which when I say that out loud and you think 16 years ago, that was quite a while ago. I started as a solo agent like many. Built a small team that became a large team, brought that team to a handful of different states across the nation, got into other areas of real estate like brokerage ownership and title company ownership and coaching and training and investment and all of that. And, and so I've worn virtually every hat I think one can wear. And, and today, uh, I spend my time with a couple things, uh, one coaching and training through, uh, a group we called— what we have called Metrics. I run a quarterly mastermind with my partner Ben Kinney, and, uh, I spent some time, a lot of time on personal real estate investment. And then in my free time, Kevin, I, I, uh, I have a chief real estate officer role over at a company called Place. And so, um, still, still dabbling, trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. Uh, I think like many of us, uh, I've had a few more W's than I have had L's. Which is why I think I'm able to still talk around some things. So lots of, lots of challenges and obstacles, a few wins here and there. And, and so I think I'm net positive right now, but, uh, there's still a lot of time left in the game.

I heard you refer— you said your free time over at Place. I heard you refer to it as moonlighting the other day, uh, over at Place. Uh, tell me about that, man. Uh, I want to dive into the metric stuff and and a few other things. But before we do that too far, I think, and I'm sorry, I'm going to put you on the spot. How would you describe Place? Like, what is Place? I've talked about it a handful of times. I've had Suarez, I've had Stu, Fred and I took a crack at explaining why we joined Place as partners. But I'd love to hear it from, in your words, what is Place? And tell me a little bit about what What does a Chief Real Estate Officer do? So far anyways.

All right. So, well, so, so a couple of things. So first, I have been saying moonlighting. I always say I've been moonlighting at Place well before I took a formal role because, and I would say the same of you, Kevin, in that you moonlighted at Place as well. Why? Well, because we're, you know, I'm close with Ben. I'm close with Chris. We grew up, we all grew up together in real estate. And so, um, while I've done a number of different things that had nothing to do with Place, anytime one of those guys had called me or asked me to do something or help in some way, you know, I drop everything and do it because I'm— I've always been supportive of what— of what our, our friends and partners are up to. And so, yeah, I've always been a fan of Ben. Ben actually does a great job of this. He always— he says something to the effect of You're either part of PLACE or you're a fan, right? Like, that's who I want in this world. Like, if you're part of it, or maybe you're not part of it, but you're still a friend and a fan, a friend of PLACE. And so, you know, when I moonlight, when I say what I mean is I've just always been supportive. And I think we all could say that about a variety of people in the industry alongside us that grew up with us. For describing what PLACE is, since you've had Stu and you've had Chris, and you've probably had others on that gave a more formal description. I won't talk around like it being a backbone or bone up business services or anything like, like that's what it is. But here's how I describe it. I don't know if this is the right way to describe it, but here's how I describe it. If you run a real estate team and you're recruiting an agent to your team, what are you sharing with that agent? What is the— why would that agent want to join your team? And the agent would want to join your team no matter what your spin or value proposition actually is. An agent will join your team if they believe that you will have the ability or your services or your value, or you personally can expedite their, their process, their journey from point A to point B. Right. So they have to see you as a conduit to getting to where they want to go faster than they would get there independent of you. If you are recruiting an agent to your team, I think of Place in much the same way. Why would a real estate team join Place and partner with Place? Because whatever their endgame looks like, whatever their, their objective is, they see a partnership with Place as an expedited path to where they want to go than they would accomplish independent of Place. And that's, that's how I describe it. So you're like, okay, well, what does Place then offer that would get me from point A to point B? And again, it's, it's not a heck of a lot different than what we'd say we offer to our agents. It's just done at you know, 10x or 20x or 100x, that level, because we're talking, uh, real estate teams and big businesses versus— no, no disrespect, but smaller production or single agent production, just obviously different degree. So Place, much like you'd be offering an agent tools, services, coaching, training, you know, accountability, etc., etc., because that's what we'd be offering an agent who joins our team, Place does the same just on, on a much larger scale. So training, education, business services like tech, like legal, like accounting. The endgame being that aligning us with us will get you to where you want to go and get you more profitable at a more expedited path. And that's, that's my definition. Again, we can talk the technical definition, which I think Suarez and Stu probably did a great job of, but that's my layman's definition. I'm a layman.

That's a good definition. So what, how do you see your role and kind of what are you excited about through like your kind of day job there, if you will?

Yeah, I've only been at it now for a couple months, as you know, just over a couple months. And, you know, the first 30 days or so, this isn't specific to place. I think that anybody would do the same sort of thing no matter the position or role or partnership they're getting into, the first 30 days, my objective was to just learn, like do the best I could to keep my mouth shut and just ask, you know, questions, take notes and don't judge, don't assess, don't try to fix anything, uh, or, or, or dive in, which is really freaking hard, right? Like, like, you know, day one I was like, oh my God, we could do this 3 different ways. It's better than, you know, and The truth is I was probably wrong, but you get excited. You want to go make a mark and make a difference. So I, I spent, uh, the first 30 days just learning, right? And then the next 30 days trying to carve out where do I think I can make the biggest impact, right? Like where, where can I go make a mark? And, and do I have the ability to make a difference in an area that maybe someone else dozen. Not that there's not fantastic people, but we all have unique backgrounds and experiences and unique abilities. And so I had to kind of assess where's the opportunity and am I best suited to go attack it, and if in doing so, would it make a difference, right? Like, for me, and I think for, for you, Kevin, I know you well enough, like, call it what it is, I, I won't make the old head jokes anymore, but we've been around we've done lots of different things. We get to now at this stage of our career, look around and say, okay, what's fun and where can I make the greatest impact? And for me, that was kind of like my first 60 days, like learn, then decide what's going to be a lot of fun and what's going to make a sizable impact. And so where, where have I landed within Place? You know, I have this Chief Real Estate Officer title, which really just allows me to, to take on virtually anything. It's a pretty flexible universal title. I borrowed it from our friend Chris Heller, so you can thank Chris Heller for that Chief Real Estate Officer role. This is the second time now I've been a Chief Real Estate Officer. The first time was at Homeward over the past few years, but I took that from our buddy Chris. Um, I'm not sure what Chris would describe he does. I know he does a lot, but I don't know how he would describe the title. But for me, it's universally applicable, so I could plug into different areas. And my objective at Place is, is to really help my partners and Chris and Ben especially get things off their respective plates so that they can go do what it is they're unbelievable at. I like those two guys are killers. They're fantastic. They're great at most anything, but there are lanes or areas where they should be spending more of their time. And as you scale a company and chaos ensues, you find yourself maybe spending less time in those areas. And so my overarching objective is to take things away from those guys, but it doesn't mean log into their calendars, if Ben actually kept one, uh, or take their phones away from them, um, and just reply. That would be a Band-Aid. That would be inefficient. So where I'm spending time, Kevin, is designing out, uh, models in areas of need, um, that the byproduct of that is that Chris and Ben have less Uh, firefighting to do because I accomplished the mission that I'm working on. So I'm spending a lot of time with our teams integrating Place playbooks, Place models. I'm working on integration right now, like how, how we get these teams up to speed on all the value that Place provides. So I'm spending a lot of time there. I'm spending a lot of time working with our top 10 or 20% of our, our operators. Of course, everybody, I'm going to work with everybody, but designing specific things for those that have the most robust businesses that frankly have the most things going on. So I'm working there. And then of course, lastly, trying to contribute in any other area where necessary and just provide my— whatever my insight might be over 16 years of selling real estate.

Nice. So to concisely say what you just said back to you, Chief Real Estate Officer is the free safety of the executive team.

The free safety, uh, you know what I would say, uh, you know, this is digging deep here, Kevin, but, but in football, uh, in high school football, they give out like that All-State team and there's always this guy on the All-State team that they don't know what position to give them, give, you know, to actually recognize him as All-State, so they create this athlete role. They just call it just this ATH, athlete. No one knows exactly what he was fantastic at, but he was good enough to make All-State. My hope is that maybe I get to be that athlete role at Place. I don't know if that's a good analogy, but that's how my head works on this.

We'll see. Time will tell. You mentioned, you mentioned your other business, and Ben happens to be your partner in that, Metrics Masterminds. Tell us a little bit about that. I mean, you've had that going for a number of years now, but give us an idea of what the current iteration is. You mentioned getting together 4 times a year? Obviously, I know this answer. So I'm a member, but would love for you to kind of tell our listeners more about it.

Yeah, no, this is so, so Metric's been running it for, for a while. Ben and I really joined forces on it in 2020. And in essence, you know, the core of what we do, we hold a quarterly mastermind for the top of the top across the nation. Top of the top real estate team owners and real estate business owners across the nation. It's more than just real estate team owners. We have a number of other real estate business owners in that room as well. And it's a group of, call it, high net worth, high net income individuals who get together on a quarterly basis and work on all sorts of things, including their real estate business, but things like leadership, wealth building, even get into things like health and really the object— tax strategy. The objective really is, like most things I've been describing thus far, help us accelerate our path to wherever we want to go. So we get together quarterly. It's a couple of days with Ben and me, and Ben and I definitely have some content that we'll run through, but we'll also make it into what I believe to be a true mastermind. Right. And I'm passionate about this specific thing. I think too many things out there are called mastermind, but really it's, it's just people talking at you. And don't get me wrong, there are elements of what we do where we are teaching a concept to a room. But mastermind to me is really getting a group of, you know, high-performing individuals together and allowing them to collaborate and brainstorm and pick apart what one another is doing. Extract the best parts, help to eliminate the worst parts, and just really create that community. I think that's what— I think that's what Napoleon Hill had in mind when he coined the term. Like, it was, it was modeled after, after Carnegie and all of his friends. They were around a room. These are the, these are the wealthiest individuals in the world comparing notes. And that's, that's the power of the mastermind, right? And so Long story short, quarterly, get them together, get some topics out there, teach a little bit, but get the group working together in solving for a variety of things that we're all looking to solve for to get wealthier, wealthier, wealthier, financially wealthier in terms of our health, wealthier in terms of our relationships. Just put the room to work and harness that power.

Yeah, we talked about— I know you and I talked about this last week, kind of the mastermind thing. Um, and how this label— there's a label of the word masterminds gets used for a lot of different things that are not masterminds. Um, and it's, it's okay because I think there's a, there's a, there's always a time and a place for somebody from the front of the room teaching. Like, that's like, we need that to a certain extent. But there's also, um, there's also a big need for allowing the rooms like collective genius, if you will, to kind of, kind of come through and let everybody benefit from all of the really smart people that can, you can put together in a room like that.

Well, I mean, take, take the mastermind that you run, right? Like, is it small group discussing things all day long? No, it's not. I've been part of it. I've seen it. But you have a dozen different presenters giving different vantage points, different ideas. Many of these presenters are individuals already sitting in the room. And the idea is Teach, talk around something, but prompt thought, prompt ideas. And then after the mastermind or at lunch, everyone's collaborating or talking around whatever that topic may be. At the end of the day, I think that there's a time and place for classes where you go, you attend, you take notes, you leave, you take those notes home and you go to work. That's a powerful thing. There are also these other things where you go, you discuss as collectively as a room. You compare and contrast and you solve problems literally in that room. That's just a different format. And, and it's the one that we like to leverage. It's the one I know you like to leverage.

So I've, I've had the, I've had the, what's the word I'm looking for? I've basically been, I've been able to watch most of your career, like 95% of your career side by side, right? So I've seen you, I've seen your business in different iterations. From my vantage point, uh, and I'm going to leave Place out of the conversation because it's so new for you, it seems to me like this mastermind, like Metrics, like seems to be the thing that you have really— I don't want to say you like the most, but it seems like it fits you the best. It seems like it's the thing that you've stayed the most excited about for the longest period of time, uh, and you and I have had countless lunches, meals, workouts, you know, traveled to different masterminds and events like that. So like I've spent, I don't know how many hours with you over the last 15 years. This seems to be the thing that like has kept you going and fired up the most. Number one, is that right? And number two, I'm certain you're going to say yes. And if so, why?

That's— it's a really good question. And you're right when you say I'm certain— you're certain I'm going to say yes because it's true. Um, how we got there, that's— I've got to think through this, right? Like, I, I don't think I've ever had anybody ask me that, so it's such a great, great question. The truth is, if we go all the way back, Kevin, um, you, Fred, me, a bunch of us, we've always enjoyed teaching and training and, and coaching and influencing or helping others. And, um, I think the last part I said is probably what we like the most. Like, we liked— I've always liked having an impact or making a difference in someone's world. Like, it just, it feels good. It's rewarding. And I did that for so long, um, and was doing it on a small scale. And as my, my career, I think, progressed, things like the Mastermind, you know, having some success, which gives you a platform. And then leveraging that platform to then maybe doing it at a larger scale is what ultimately formed or led to the Mastermind. Well, let's be clear. It is a business for me. So I love the sport of business, right? Like it is a business, but I don't ever feel like it is. And I know it's sort of corny or cliché. Like we all read books or hear podcasts about like, do what you love and You know, find what you're passionate in and the money will find you. And the truth is, I kind of am living that a little bit as it pertains to the mastermind. Like, I really truly love writing content. I love bringing people in a room and pulling them together. I do not have all of the answers or even close to. Like, any event I run, anybody that knows me, like, yeah, maybe I've got a couple half-decent things to share that I probably read in a book. And I'm just regurgitating, or maybe I have some experiences that I could share. So I think maybe there's a couple things there, but that's not, that's not necessarily, I think, my superpower. My, my superpower is bringing that group together to begin with and getting them to communicate and asking them the right questions and getting them to think a little differently. And it's just, it's just a lot of fun, man. I just, I just really, really truly enjoy it. It gives me a ton of energy. And I, I do think about, and I, I want everyone that's listening, ideally, you know, they're hearing some of my story, but I'm hoping that they take some action items or learnings of their own. For me, I'll tell you what a huge turning point was. Um, and you'll probably smile because I know you're going to know what I'm talking about, but Ray Dalio wrote that book Principles, and which is a great book, it's a really good book. And in that book, and this is me paraphrasing and I'm probably going to butcher how he said it, but Ray describes really— this is my takeaway— 3 phases of your career. And, and phase 1 of your career, you spend proving to yourself that you can do it. Phase 2, which is hopefully short-lived, is showing others that you did it. Proving to others that you did it. And then phase 3, which is the most rewarding phase, is showing others how to do what it is you did. So if I go back through like my career, you know, phase 1 for me, proving to myself I can do it— let's just call it what it is, man. When I got into sales, it's because I didn't have anything else to do because I just lost my ass in the real estate market and I didn't know what to do. And so I became a realtor. That's what we all do. Like 90% of the real estate business people got into real estate because they tried other things, or they didn't know what they wanted to do, so they get a real estate license. Well, I was one of those. And I'll tell you, man, like, as confident as I, I may be in my abilities, and, you know, as a kid growing up or having some success in that, or success in that, in these other areas, like, yeah, I probably had some confidence, but I was just coming off of like my first major loss, and I had a lot of self-doubt. So I know that for the first— not year or two, but like the first like 6 years I spent like showing, proving to myself I could do it. Like, hey, you just lost, but you can battle back and you can be successful and you can make money and you can build a big business. Like, I had a lot of self-doubt. And so phase one, I spent a lot of time, 6 years probably, proving to myself I could do it. Then there was no question, and hopefully it was short-lived. I, I, I hope there's not many people out there that said, no, Brian, you definitely lived in this phase for a while, but Phase 2, like, yeah, I probably wanted a little accolade or a little applause, like, hey, I did it, you know. Kevin, we, we built, you know, we, me, you, Fred, you know, we built some pretty big short sale businesses and gained some notoriety or accolade around that nationally. And, and hey, it felt good, right? And, and probably, you know, I probably wanted that, that recognition or accolade you know, a little bit. And hopefully that was a short period of time. I believe it to be, but I think, uh, I think my peers would be better to answer that. But phase 3, showing others how to do what it is you did, um, that, that's where I think I'm at right now in my career. And, and I don't— don't get me wrong, I don't think I've accomplished all this stuff. I've just— I've had a few more experiences than others. And I can share those experiences and the paths I've taken, the things I've done right, the things I've done wrong, and just show them how to get— I'll tell you, I have people that I'm working with over the past 4 or 5 years that are well past me now, and damn, it feels great, right? Like, it feels so good to play a role, you know, in— like, there's some real estate team owners I personally coach that run businesses 3 times the size of mine ever was, but I got to play a role in helping them do that. Like, that's a lot of freaking fun. And that's just kind of where I'm at in my life these days. Very long-winded answer, but hopefully there's some things people take from that.

Nah, man, that, that's good. And that's not, that's not too dissimilar than what I, what I anticipated your answer would be. It, it's always, you know, for me it's a balance. Like, you know, you, we came up together. You mentioned you wouldn't make any more old head comments, but the reality is, is I think you and I, I mean, I don't think, I know we had, we had conversations around the folks that were, that were the old guys when you and I were the young guys and where it was like, you know, I definitely don't want to be like that, or I don't want to, to kind of go down a similar road. It's always such a, I think it's such a fine line between being in phase 3, the way you described it versus kind of talking about the good old days and not actually being effective any longer. And you've managed to stay actually in phase 3. And I know that based on, I mean, just the examples you just gave about some of the people you coach or the, the group that you run in Metrics or the fact that Ben and Chris would want to partner with you at Place. Like, that's a, that's proof of that to me. But it's such a fine line, I think, especially in real estate, man. I've never met a business where people want to get into so bad only to then get out of equally as bad as they wanted to get into it to make money. And so like, it looks like I got to get out of production, right? Like, I'm like, maybe you should sell a few houses first or, you know, learn a few of these other skills. So it's— I mean, it's a fine line and I don't think it's one to, to take lightly because not many people kind of walk that line very well.

You know, I mean, you mentioned it, right? And you're dead on. Like, there— I remember being a younger guy in the industry and seeing some of the more experienced people around us. And some of them were definitely still in the know and were top of their game and incredibly impressive. And then there were others who were like, hey man, you gotta hang up the cleats. Like, you know, no disrespect, but I don't think you still got it anymore. And we did say, I definitely said, I don't want to be that guy. As a matter of fact, Kevin, I think I said to you at one point, If you ever see me behaving in that way, you sure as shit better tell me. Like, you better hit me and say, hey, it's time, buddy. Like, it's time to put you out to pasture. I mean, like, tell me. But I'll tell you, for me, I don't think I'm there yet. Maybe others would feel differently, but I think I've got a lot left in me. And I think a lot of that is self-awareness. Like, I'm a big fan I think we've got to look in the mirror a lot more than we're looking out the window, right? Like, like, to me, this year especially is a lot more mirror and less window because, um, I've got to really be aware of— I've got to ask myself questions. I got to allow myself to think. I've got to do my best to put my ego aside because generally, generally, that's what, what's driving it, right? Like, it's ego. Um, and, and, and be honest with myself and be aware. And I'll tell you, I, I still think that, and I think you feel the same way, man. I am still learning something every day. I'm still growing. I'm still as hungry, if not hungrier, uh, now than I've ever been. Um, I definitely work smarter than I did back then. Um, early in our careers, we had nothing but hard work, right? Like, that's all we had available to us. So Yeah, so I did work incredibly hard, long hours. I don't do it quite like that anymore. It's not necessary because I'm smarter today. At least I think I am. I also, you know, we all have, I think, 3 variables we get to play with, right? In business, we get, we have our time, we have our capital, and we have our influence. We have our time, our capital, and our influence. And early in your career, all you have is time. Right? Like, that's all I had. That was my— the one variable I could play with. I didn't have any money, I didn't have any capital, and I, I didn't— hadn't earned any influence, I hadn't earned any relationships. And then over the course of time, over the course of your career, you start to gain some of those other variables. You start to have a few more dollars that you can put to work, or you start to have a bigger Rolodex, like more influence, more relationships that you get to put to work. Or leverage, and you don't have to put in as much time. But I think everything that we do, you got to look at which of those 3 variables, what's the combination of those 3 variables, and how do I feel about that? Like right now, hey, call it what it is, like what I'm doing at Place, that's a time commitment. That's time. Now I am leveraging some of the influence, right? Meaning that I'm credible to have conversations with the top people and the right people at Place and outside of Place. So I leveraged some of the influence. My capital is not at work. My time is what's at work. So I'm accepting of that. I'm aware. I'm aware of that. Now, on the flip side, you know, if there was a new business opportunity like property management— I'm in property management, uh, there's no— I'm putting zero time into property management. It's just not where— it's not something I'm passionate about. It's not something I would do. However, I can leverage my dollars and I can leverage my Rolodex. So you just play with these different variables and you kind of assess, like, what am I willing to give up? What am I willing to, to commit to? Kind of went off on a tangent, but I think it all kind of brings us back to the self-awareness conversation. At some point in my career, probably it will be zero time commitment to anything, but my dollars will still be at work and my influence may still be at work in some way. But I'll be out of the, I'll be out of the, I, I won't, I will no, no longer be in front of things. Right. And that's, that's the, the, the zero time commitment.

I think, uh, first of all, that's really powerful to think of it as in those three kind of those three areas. Going back to the word you said a few times, self-awareness. Um, how does someone who, who maybe when you heard you say that went, man, maybe that's something I need to start paying more attention to. So I know it's something that you've paid a ton of attention to for like at least the last decade. Specifically, how do you, how do you tell people? What would you say to the person who went, you know what, do I think I need to check in on that right now? Where does that person start?

Yeah, it's a really, it's a really good question. Number one, the The content of what I read, the type of books that I read, um, have evolved. It's evolved over the years, you know. Early, earlier in my career, it was heavily tactical or strategy around real estate, around sales. So like every book I read was around how to be a better salesperson or how to be a better, you know, business builder. And as time progressed And I started getting into, okay, now I want to be not just a better business person, but a better human. You know, the content that I, that I began to consume were more around that. So more self-development type books, more, more, uh, podcasts related to, you know, getting my mind in a different position and higher performance around that outside of the office. And so my first thing is, you know, anybody that says, hey, how do I up my self-awareness game? You know, I'm always gonna say, well, what are you reading? What are you studying? Like when you go and, you know, Google a pod or search a podcast, you know, what are you looking for? This sort of topic? Are you craving it? Because here's what happens when you're thinking about it, when it's on your mind and you become more purposeful around, around that subject. Well, suddenly things start showing up, right? Like a class to go to shows up, a book that you, that somebody mentions to you that probably had been mentioned to you before, you hear about it again. You know, those things start to show up. So number 1, what are you studying? Number 2, I think the quick way to create more awareness is to simply ask for feedback from those that know you really well. That was the thing I did. You know, like I, I would ask uncomfortable questions of people that know me really well. I'd say, hey, be honest with me. What do you think, uh, what do you think I'm really good at? Like, what do you think are my strengths? And, you know, maybe they'd give me something and then I'd say, well, where do you think I have the greatest opportunity to improve? Like, be honest with me. Like, please know I'm really trying to up my, my game. I'm trying to better understand who I am, trying to understand my strengths. I want to know where I can improve. Uh, I trust you. I love you. It's not changing our relationship. Tell me, tell me where you think I can improve. And, uh, I would ask questions like that of the people that know me and even love me, probably rather annoyingly, like, like the frequency was annoying. You know, I remember asking my mom, of all people. Now, I'm not always looking for family members because you're not— you're sometimes going to get jaded feedback from family members, not from your mother. Your mother is going to be straight with you. But, you know, sometimes I'm looking at best friends or people that you may have more objective business relationship with, but that know you really well in that forum. Well, I had asked my mom, you know, questions like that. I'll never forget. And she said, uh, you know, Brian, I think you have an issue or a challenge. No, I think she said issue. She wouldn't have used the creative coaching language like an opportunity to improve.

I think she said you have an issue.

Yeah, I think she told me that I lacked authenticity. Um, which really kind of caught me off guard because I didn't think that to be the case. Uh, she said, yeah. And I'm like, well, help me better understand that. She's like, how you show up, you know, at, at work, and how you show up in certain relationships, and how you show up at home— like, there are like multiple versions of you going on. And, um, in my head I was like, yeah, I, I— that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Like, I compartmentalize these worlds. And for me, I'm not saying that that's not healthy for some people. I thought that was a healthy approach to business and life for me, compartmentalize. Like, I'm a different guy at home and I'm a different guy at the office. But I could see what my mom was saying when she said, hey, because she sees me in the work environment and the home life, obviously. Uh, when she said, you're not authentic, I'm like, gosh, I'm not being me. Like, that was a big self-awareness check. Like, how am I showing up? Uh, kind of slapped me pretty hard. Well, I've had, I had multiple experiences like that. Now again, there's some good things like I'm told, hey, you're good at this, you're good at that, or here's your, here's your strength zone. But I really value like the things I'm, I'm told I can, I can improve on.

Well, you know, it's tough, dude. First of all, your mom is my experience of her, and I think I've known her for at least 10 years, maybe, maybe 12 or 13. She's pretty much a kind of no bullshit. Very direct person. And while she's super loving and motherly, she's also very fucking direct. And so I don't know that everyone's going to get that, that good of feedback from their mom because your mom's— your mom's usually going to be your biggest cheerleader. That said, having— what I see is especially some of the circles that you and I run in where we're around some super successful business owners, whether that's in real estate or mortgage or whatever, they're kind of surrounded by people that would never be that brutally honest with them, would never actually say something that direct. I mean, I'll just tell you, like, Ben— something I respect about Ben, he said to me on the phone not even a month ago, he said, hey, I need a— he's like, I got a question for you. And I said, okay, what's that? He said, hey, are you gonna give me some, like, real feedback because you're my buddy and, like, because we're really friends, or are you gonna do what my other friends do and just tell me everything's been really good? Or are you going to be honest with me and actually be my friend and tell me, tell me where we suck? Like, give me some actual feedback. And I was like, okay, that's a good point. And if anybody is going to have people around them like that, it'd be somebody of Ben's stature, right? And so the fact that you, that you sought that out, someone who's willing to give you what could be perceived as negative feedback, I would just call it honest. Um, and their experience of you, I think that says a lot about you as a person. And I think it, it also— it's the message I'm trying to, I guess, convey is to the listener is if you don't have, if you don't have multiple people like that around you, like, you got to find out. You got to ask yourself, is it because you're keeping those people away from you, or do you just need to get around different people? Because you need, you need to be able to have that sort of feedback.

You know, I, and that's so good. I mean, I think what you said, you nailed it. I think in my head, um, as I'm thinking through all that you just said and what we're talking around, um, we have to put the, I mean, we really have to put the ego aside. Like, I think for me, and I think you'd say the same, like, I'm, I'm good with who I am. Like, like, like, like, I'm comfortable. Like, like, not to say I shouldn't, I shouldn't, I can't get better every single day. I mean, I absolutely strive to get better every single day. But I'm saying, like, I need that feedback and it's not going to shake my confidence. Like, I've gotten myself to a point where, like, yeah, I'm good. And, and I need this. Like, a good example, Ben said to me, ironically brought up Ben. Ben said to me, like, a month ago, he said, hey, can I give you some, some direct feedback? Now, Brian of 10 years ago would have immediately, like, pulled back, maybe even pulled my shoulders back, like, said, all right, man, let's get into it. Like, are we about to get— are we about to argue? Over something. And Brian of today, when he said, can I give you some direct feedback? And I lean in, I'm like, yeah, please. Like, what do you got? And to me, the difference between me 10 years ago and me today, it was ego. Like, whereas I may have felt defensive today, I know that a guy like a good friend and business partner like Ben, he's trying to give me something constructive. It doesn't mean he doesn't love me. He's trying to be constructive. And what he had said to me, for what it's worth, he said, hey, I think you're drawing a lot of conclusions on things and you're not asking enough questions. So if I can encourage you to do anything, will you ask me more questions around how something got to be the way it is? And he was referring to not even place. He was referring to a different business thing we're looking at. And he said, when you start asking me more questions around how we got here, versus, you know, connecting the dots on your own and assuming you know where it's at. Sometimes you just kind of jump to conclusions. And I'm like, you know what, man, you're freaking right. But again, if he had started like 10 years ago with me, it might have been like fighting words. Today it's like, please give me that, like I need that, thank you. And now I'm aware. That is a funny thing.

What's really funny is like, uh, those words, like I could literally hear Ben saying that. So that's, that's total Ben thing. Well, dude, you talked a little bit. We got to, we got to wind down. I know you and I both got to have a hard stop here in a few minutes, but you mentioned kind of not just ego. You talked about a lot of things. You mentioned kind of getting better every day, which, you know, ties into the name of your new podcast, No Days Off. Right. Tell me.

Yeah.

Give us the, give us the 30 seconds on what is No Days Off like. The mindset, but then let's go into another minute or two on the podcast and kind of why you're doing it, what people could expect to get out of it.

Yeah, thanks for that. So I am running this podcast now called No Days Off, and the concept, the thought is, and I had mentioned this earlier, I really believe, and I think all your listeners think the same, I know you certainly think the same, every single day I really think we can do something to get better at something, right? Like every day, it doesn't matter whether it's Monday or Saturday, every day we can commit a minute or 10 minutes or an hour to improving in some aspect of our, of our life, of our world, right? So if it's health, what's one thing I can do right now? What's one thing I could do today that would make me a slight bit healthier? And for some, that might be swapping the French fries on their lunch for broccoli. I know that sounds silly, but that one thing will make you healthier today. Or if it's self-awareness, what can I read for 5 minutes today that will change my perspective around self-awareness or how to gain more self-awareness? Or if it's relationships, how can I learn to be— how can I be a better father to my daughters today? Right? Like, for me, that might be saying I love you one more time. The thought is, Kevin, at the end of the day, like, every single day represents a day to get better. And so the podcast, what I'm aiming to do is, is just ask the right questions and get people thinking about what actions they could take that day, right? So recent episodes, we talked around how to create, you know, what's the number one thing to creating more wealth? And the answer, in my opinion, is awareness. So how can you create more awareness around your wealth? Or we talked around leadership. Okay, how can we increase our leadership a little bit more? My suggestion: model the behavior expected of those around you. But what can you do to change your leadership today? And again, it's spend a minute. I don't care what it is, spend 3 minutes. It's just that life is so short and, and time is so, you know, precious. It just makes a lot of sense to me. We might as well try to we might as well be trying to maximize our game in all these areas. So every morning I got a podcast that comes out. It's 5, 6, 7 minutes in length, and it's, here's the topic, here's my thoughts, here's the focusing question, you know, that you should be asking yourself. Now get out there and, you know, go take action. And that's it every day.

Nice. Yeah, it's good, it's good. I'm not just saying that because we're friends. It's good. Been listening to it, listen to every episode so far. Uh, and it's hidden. So if you guys liked what you've heard at all today, you'll love the little bite-sized 5 to 7 minute episodes of No Days Off. Is there anywhere else? Obviously, that's an easy thing to go find. Brian is, is a podcast feed. Is there anywhere else that the listeners who want to kind of check in on you, maybe Metrics Masterminds website, like where would people kind of learn more about you or kind of what you got going on?

Yeah, find the podcast on Apple or Spotify or if you want it actually text. If you want us to text it to you every morning, Uh, just go register at nodaysoffpodcast.com. You can just throw your info in there and every morning the new episode will show up in your text, uh, if you want to check it out. Uh, metricsmasterminds.com. Metrics, M-E-T-R-I-X. So metricsmasterminds.com. That's the quarterly deal that Ben and I run, and there's a whole bunch of other stuff that comes with that beyond the quarterly, but that's the crux of what we do. And then, of course, you know, I hang out at Place a little bit. So if you ever want to email me, shoot it over to Brian, Brian@place.com. Anything I could help out with from, from maybe the latest health craze I'm into to buying mobile homes, shoot me a— shoot me an email. I'd love to help out.

Maybe you'll talk about selling the mobile home after you buy it to just just for the fun one. That, that's for the listeners that go deep. All right, man, thanks a lot for taking some time today, uh, for the podcast. And, uh, listeners, if you liked what you heard, which I'm sure you did, reach out to Brian, subscribe to the podcast, and, uh, talk to you guys next week. Thank you for tuning into today's podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. If you're looking for even more valuable content and resources to help you grow your business, then we invite you to join our community, Next Level agents at eXp Realty. By joining us, you'll gain access to exclusive benefits like live trainings, events, masterminds, weekly Zooms, digital downloads, and so much more, all designed to help you grow your business. To learn more and become a part of our community, simply visit kevinandfred.com/contact and get in touch with us today. Of course, if you're not quite ready to take the plunge and join our community, that's no problem at all. You can still access all of our great content for free right here on this podcast. And again, we thank you for listening. We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and more advice in the future.