05: Remediation Overview / Moldy Refrigerators

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

So today we're going to do a broad scope review of remediation and the remediation process. And I really wanted to do this one today because I actually just got off the phone with one of my clients and I did a review of their report and their results and what the remediation recommendations were. And as I was talking with him, I just realized that I was kind of explaining the overall process. He had a lot of really good questions about why we're doing things and how it all works. And not that it was combative or anything in any way, but it was really just educational for him. Because for him and for a lot of you, I'm sure this is a new thing that we're trying to figure out. And so it's really important to understand the steps of the process. So we, you know, one, aren't skipping anything which could then have an impact on us later on, and two, we're kind of doing things the right way to ensure that we're actually achieving the ultimate goal of remediation. And the ultimate goal of remediation is to remove the mold and ultimately to remove our exposure so we can create an environment that is going to be suitable and healthy for us. Right? And that's the ultimate goal. And there's so many times that whoever is executing the remediation, so the remediators, they're doing things in a way that really isn't getting to the core of what the problem is. And so the first thing I want to talk about today is the general concept of remediation. And.

The idea really centers around cause and effect.

I use this analogy all the time. I think I used it like an episode ago and I'm going to use it again. Mold is like a factory, okay? So if you drive by a factory, they're making whatever they're making inside and smoke is coming out of the top. The idea is, as long as the mold factory still exists, that the smoke coming out of the top is going to continue to come out of the top. The only way to stop the smoke from coming out of the top of the factory is to actually shut the factory Down. Okay, so in this analogy, if mold is the factory, then the smoke coming out of the top is the mold spores, the fragments, the different mycotoxins, and that's what's spreading through the house. Okay, so what we have to do is not just like, clean the air in the house, right? Because if we didn't stop the factory from creating the problem, it's just going to continue to create it again, and we might get the house clean for a short period of time, and then the problem's going to persist, it's going to come back. And so that's what we were talking through today. And so the big piece of this is that you have to remove source. So what does that mean? So when we go through and we do a mold assessment in a house, it's all about figuring out where the actual mold problems are coming from. Is it in this wall? Is it in the ceiling? Is it behind this cabinetry? Wherever it is. And we do testing to validate where all that stuff is, because it helps us put the remediation plan together. So what we want to do is we write up the plan for whatever needs to be removed structurally in order to get rid of the growth and get rid of the colonies that have basically taken over and get rid of those factories. Once those factories are gone, we're not done. Okay, so if you think about this factory analogy, again, if you shut the factory down, so you fired all the workers and you sent them all home, what's going to happen is that the factory won't be producing smoke anymore, but all the smoke that came out isn't going to get magically sucked back into the factory. Right. It's still going to be out there. And so we have to essentially now address the air pollution that's been created by these factories. And so again, that's what's happening inside of your house. So you had these mole colonies, they were spreading out these spores and fragments and toxins. They were moving around. So the first piece of the remediation, we went and we actually removed the factories. We removed the drywall that was impacted. We cleaned the wood framing and the studs, and we did all this stuff to basically get the colonies out. So we're no longer creating more of a problem. But now we have to address the fragments and the spores and the toxins and different things that had already been released into the house. Right. So now it's the smoke that's moving through the house. We have to get rid of that too. Okay, so there's a whole Separate phase of the remediation that's focused on that. And so basically what we do is phase one, get rid of the sources. Phase two, we then implement a secondary plan that is basically called a fine particle remediation plan. It's basically what kind of how it's referred to, but it's the idea of getting all these little particles and things that had gotten out from the colonies that are floating around the house to grab all of that stuff and extract it out too. And there's a specific process for doing that also. I'm going to go real top line on the processes. Just know like, don't take exactly what I'm saying and implement it as is because there are other pieces of the equation in order for it to be 100% effective. But I just want you to understand, you know, kind of the basics on how it's done. So from the source removal or phase one, we basically have to do two things. We have to remove the non structural building materials. So that's drywall, cabinetry, you know, anything else that's not part of the actual like frame and structure of the building. Remove anything that's contaminated. Once that's done, we then have to clean the structural components that are left over. So if you remove a wall, there are studs that are behind the wall. So a question I get a lot is, God, do we have to remove all the studs too? No, you don't have to do that. As long as they're not like wood rotted and structurally like the integrity is to the point where it's not like doing its job. As long as that's not happening, which is very rare, then you can clean them. Okay, so in terms of cleaning, it's not just spraying them with something. Okay, so what a lot of companies do, they want to come in, they just want to spray everything and then they're going to tell you that everything is fine. That doesn't work. That's not how it works. We actually have to remove the colonies from the wood framing. And to do that you basically have to like sand and wire brush and kind of scrape out like the roots of the colonies that grow into the wood. Okay. So it's a, it's a forceful process to go through and basically hand remove all of that. And you're sanding it and wire brushing it and wiping it and trying to get all that stuff off. And that's, that's really the core of what source remediation is. It's actually removing the source. And the thing that a lot of remediation companies do is they skip over this phase and they don't worry about removing the source and they skip straight to phase two, which is trying to remove basically the smoke, right, that has come from those colonies. So they're trying to remove just the particles and stuff that are flying off the colonies and they go straight there. And a lot of times they'll try to do this by saying they're going to fog your house with some magic fogging solution and that's going to fix all the problems. The challenge is that that fogging, it doesn't get into the walls. They're going to tell you that it does and it's fine. It doesn't. I'm just going to tell you now it doesn't. I have a lot of testing that shows that it doesn't. And they're going to claim it's going to do all this stuff. They're going to claim it's going to be cheaper for you. You know why they're doing this? They're doing this because their business is based on volume, okay? So their business is based on how many jobs can we get done. So that's one. It's based on profit margin, which is two. So how many jobs can we do and how low can we keep our internal costs? So our profit margin is as high as it can be. That's what they're trying to do. So the way that they've come around doing this is to say, okay, we're going to come into your house, we're not going to remove any of the walls and stuff, because that's going to take time. By doing time they're not able to keep to increase the volume of jobs they're doing. So that's the first thing that they're basically wiping out of the equation to help their own business. Then the second piece is.

Is that they're doing this fogging process that is going to be a lot cheaper than it would be to have all the labor come in and physically remove things and do all of that. And because it's cheaper, it's increasing their profit margin. And by doing those two things, they're able to have a very successful business. If you just look from a monetary standpoint, right, More volume of jobs, less cost per job, they're charging everybody the same, and there you go, they're making a lot of money. And so that's what these remediation companies are trying to do. So it's super, super important that we find remediation companies that look at the project. More like a medical type of job than a construction type of job. So it's the mindset of how they're coming in. You need somebody who's going to come in and doesn't mind that they're going to have to spend time. Right. And doesn't mind that they're going to have to have a lot of man hours that are going to be required to do it properly. And that's really the key in finding the company that's going to do it. And companies are going to skip over phase one, which is actually removing the source immediately. Do not hire them. Like that's it. Like if someone's telling you they're going to come in and fog your house 100%, don't hire them because I guarantee you it's not going to work. Okay. And you're going to spend a good amount of money for them to come fog your house too. They're still going to charge you a lot of money. It's just cheaper for them. So their profit margin is higher. So they're still going to charge you a lot of money and they're going to come in and fog everything and you're going to see a decent result maybe for like a week or two because it will have taken some of what was floating around out. But what's going to happen is because they didn't do the first phase of remediation, those factories are still in operation that are behind the walls and the cabinets and stuff. And they're going to continue to push that slow smoke into the house. It's going to fill the house up again with these particles and these toxins and these byproducts. So that is the broad scope overview. The remediation process is two phases. It's phase one, removing the source of the problem, Phase two, removing the smoke or the cross contamination that was created by the sources. Those are the two steps. If these two steps are done, remediation can be successful. Okay, so that is the quick overview on how the remediation process looks. So keep this in mind when you guys are looking for your projects.

So last week on Instagram, I posted a short video of a refrigerator I was looking at at an appointment. And I went into the refrigerator and I showed like where the ice comes out of the refrigerator and, and where the water comes out and it was just covered in mold. And this isn't the first time I've seen this. This is like a super common thing in any refrigerator that has a water line. And I always look in these to show people this, because a lot of people use their refrigerator water and the ice that comes out of their fridge. And if you think about it, if you're seeing all that mold on the front end piece of it, then you're going to be drinking that stuff. Right. That's super important to know and to avoid. So. So if you want to see the video, it was posted on May 23rd at Mold Masterclass, you can see the video that was there. So some of the questions that came out of this were about, like, how do you clean this? And I thought that this was a better kind of conversation to have, because the concept of cleaning mold.

It holds true. Like when you're doing remediation as well as, like, when you're just cleaning a certain area, we have to think that mold is not just what you can see. This is the big thing to wrap our heads around. I totally get it. Right. How do we grasp this concept that there's this invisible thing that's out there that's impacting us.

And how do we basically kind of accept that and then do what's necessary in order to handle that? This refrigerator questions that I was getting is just like a microcosm of that concept. And so here's the thing. If we're seeing on the front end where the ice and the water come out of the refrigerator, we're seeing it covered in mold. Well, where did that come from? Right. There's a water line that's running that's connecting, you know, to your fridge. So there's a whole line of water running through there. It'd be kind of silly for us to assume that the mold is only at the very end of that water line and it's not running through the whole line. That's the assumption that we have to make. That's the assumption that I make. Now, granted, I'm not dismantling these refrigerators. So I guess there is a possibility that the water line that's connecting all the way up into the refrigerator to where the ice is and where the water that eventually goes into our glasses, I guess there's a possibility that there's not mold in that line too. But if you look at what this looks like, which is just covered in mold, I think the chances of that are really slim. And so if we say, okay, is there a way to clean it? Well, how would you clean it? The best way that you could clean it is to basically surface clean what you can reach. Right. Which is like the ice piece and where the water comes out but there's no way to address the water line that's connecting all the way through the fridge. So the answer is that you can't clean it, right? I mean, that's truly the answer because you can't get into that. You could in theory clean it, the front end of it, and then maybe replace the water line and get a new water line. But it's probably just going to happen again. Like this happening was not the fault of the homeowner. This happening was because when you get your water or your ice, some moisture stays kind of on those components and then mold grows on it. I mean, that's what's happening. And that's probably what's happening inside of the water line too. And so if we tell someone, yeah, you could just surface clean this and you're going to be okay. My worry and my concern is that the water coming through the line all the way to get there is still passing by a bunch of mold and bacteria and they're still going to have an issue with that. When I saw this in my refrigerator, I immediately stopped using it. I did clean the surface of it. I use Benefect, which is a product that a lot of my clients use. And it's a more botanical based mold cleaning product. The active ingredients are different essential oils like thyme oil. So it's less chemical heavy. So it's a product that I like. We use that and then we just stopped using it. Like the end. We don't use our refrigerator water anymore. And I went and I bought a Berkey water filter. And I mean, they're not like a sponsor or anything, but it's just, it's a product that I like. I saw Dr. Jill Carnahan and a lot of the other doctors out there promoting the product as well, for everything is able to filter out. But the cool thing about that type of filter is there's no like water lines anywhere. It's. It's a gravity filter. If you look it up, you basically put water in the top stainless steel drum. It filters down through these filter components into a bottom stainless steel drum, which then has a spigot that you put your cup under. So there's none of these rubber water lines, plastic water lines that, that can get moldy and eliminates that piece from the equation. And for me, that's what I did. But I just wanted to talk about that because there's a lot of commenting and questions on different things that could be done to clean this. And listen, if you're mold sensitive, right, cleaning this and then continuing to drink out of it, in my opinion. And it's just my opinion guys, but doing that, not a good idea. So I just wanted to share that with you guys from the post that I had put out a few days ago.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment and subscribe and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.

Sam.