112: The Mold, Brain & Hormone Connection w/ Bridgit Danner

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey, everyone. What's going on? I'm actually really pumped for today's talk, so I got Bridget Danner on today. Recently, she had put together the toxic mold masterclass, which I spoke on as one of the, I don't know, lessons modules, whatever. Whatever they're being called. I talked. People listen. And so I wanted to actually have her on. On this podcast, too, because we were chatting behind the scenes, and, you know, she just knows a lot of stuff, and I figure, you know, you guys might want to know some stuff, and she's someone who knows some stuff, so. So I'm bringing her up.

You just nailed that intro, Ryan. I know I can use the same one for everybody. This is a person who knows stuff. Here you go.

Honestly, I might just write this down as a template, and then I'm just gonna read this. This A person knows some stuff. You wanna know some stuff? Here's some stuff. Anyways, everyone, meet Bridget Danner, if you haven't already. You want to do a quick intro?

Sure, yeah. You know, I don't always read people's intros because I feel like by the time they start talking, you know, the information should speak for itself. But. And it does a little bit about me. I was a practicing acupuncturist in Portland, Oregon, when I was having my own chronic symptoms that went on for about eight years before I found out I had mold in my home. So it changed, you know, my life path and my work path as well. And I focus now on teaching about detoxification from, like, a functional medicine perspective and really have a lot of emphasis on mold detox.

Yeah. And like I said, she knows some stuff. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done with that.

Anyways, so we were chatting before this, uh, everyone who. I don't know. I've said this a lot. I usually kind of go into these things and just wing it because I feel like real conversations are better than we're going to talk about X, Y, and Z and just kind of see where stuff goes. So we literally were talking for two minutes before this, and versus, like, like, hey, what if I talk about the brain hormone connection to mold? And I'm like, that sounds awesome. I haven't done that before. So we. We started diving into it a little bit more, trying to dive into, like, how mold affects the body, like, at the cellular level, the different pathways that it affects us, maybe some of the mechanisms that we might notice it happening and then kind of this brain connection. I think all that stuff is really cool. And, you know, I see, like, posts here or there. You know, the fun thing about Instagram, you get like a little snippet of stuff, but, like, it's not enough to actually really do anything about, like, until you really start diving in and understanding stuff. So, you know, you see kind of the brain piece and you see some of these other things. But, I mean, I haven't really dove into it much and I haven't seen it, you know, really deep dove, deep dive. Deep dove, Deep dive into. So.

So, yeah, let's deep dive. Honestly, Brian, I could have written my whole book just on how mold interacts with the body. Like, it's so fascinating. You know, on a. On a real life level, it's just so tragic and destructive. But on a science level, it's a very fascinating thing to study. It's just the way it travels in the body and the different ways it can affect. And I mentioned before we got on, yeah, you don't have to know all this stuff, certainly. But for me, learning some of these things really sort of made me feel better about where I was at in my journey or symptoms I had gone through, which, as many of your clients, Brian, have been told, like, oh, you're just stressed out, or it's in your head, or, like, you're just an anxious person.

No, that's all, you know, that's all. Yeah, we do all have, like, our genetic tendencies. But mold so powerful in the body that it can do it can create really almost any symptom.

And it's so crazy because, I mean, a lot of people listening to this, they. They at least get it, but they might have a spouse who doesn't totally get it, or family members who don't totally get it. And it's this whole thing of, like, well, you can't see this stuff, so, like, it can't be that big of a deal. And I, like, jokingly said this the other day, actually think I was in a. I might have been, like, talking to an attorney or something like, when I said this, but I was like, listen, Covid just ravaged the world. You can't See that floating around.

Great point. People are still wearing masks, walking down the sidewalk.

Yeah. So just because you can't see it doesn't mean stuff's not happening. It's just so silly to think at. So part of what we're going to talk through, which I think is cool, is like, one, I think kind of getting into the. How it's actually moving through the body stuff is cool because to your point, like, from an understanding point of view, I think a lot, and I'm one of these people. If I can, like, sort of get, like, how it's happening, then it validates it a little more for me, and then it kind of, like, lets me understand, like, okay, so these are things I need to do, and this is what this particular piece of this protocol is targeted for. Right. So that way I can, like, look at the whole thing and say, okay, this is. This is where I'm at. This is what's happening. This is what I'm doing to fix it. And I know, and I feel comfortable about the path that I'm on. Right. Not everybody thinks that way. I think that way. I think some people think that way. But the other piece after that, that is to. Is to see things that are actually more visible. Like, visible to us. Right. So, like, how is that manifesting in a symptom set? Or what are some of the things that you might not realize might be triggered by this stuff? And I think if we could, like, go down this path, that would be kind of a cool talk for today. So maybe you tell me what you think the best way, because you explain this stuff obviously, more than I do. Is it better to start at, like, how it works? Or is it better to go backwards, like Quentin Tarantino and say, here's your symptom, and then here's how, like, I.

Can do both at once. Brian. I think I can kind of say this is going to be happening in the pathway, and then this symptom is going to pop up. So I'd love to start even just with what happens when we inhale mold, which is one of the main ways. It's not just mold, Right. There could be spores, there could be mycotoxins, There could be cell fragments. There could be other bacteria from the home. As Brian's taught you, it's probably a complex array of toxins that are in your home from mold, and it can be from chemicals and other things. So. So let's just say. Let's use the example, too, of somebody who's been out of mold. Because once you're out of mold. You become more sensitive to it when you smell it again, right? So let's just say you walk into like an old church and you smell mold. That's going right up into the center of your brain, right? Your nostrils go right into the center of your brain. Smell information is information that your body takes in. If you smell like a certain cookie that your grandma used to bake, it makes all these memories. When you smell, it goes right in, gets processed by the limbic center, which makes some of those emotions and reactions. This is why when we get re exposed to things, we do get real inflammation. That's real. But we also get panicked because the brain is, oh, our enemy has re entered and it's freaking out. And your blood pressure may go up.

It's a real thing. You get real inflammation. You may have rage, you may have a headache. That thing.

Twitching could start up that thing. If you've been living in a moldy home, you may not really smell it, but that's what's happening all the time, is the body's getting that information. I think the reactions can be a little dulled because your body's like, we're living with an enemy. We're just going to try to cope and keep her functioning. Those are some of the emotional reactions that can happen right there. And some of the adrenaline reactions now say the mycotoxins in particular, they can break down the blood brain barrier. They can cross into cells. They can penetrate the brain, which is not supposed to really be penetrable. That's why it has a barrier. This great little enemy can break down that barrier.

It has a fatty component or a water component. It can enter anywhere. One area enters is the hypothalamus, which is also right in the center of your head there a very convenient place for mold to go immediately. It can become chronically inflamed. And now you're signaling for hormones throughout the body is off. And this can be sex hormones. You can have low sex drive, weight gain, spotty periods, which is something I was dealing with for a long time, low metabolism, that kind of thing. But, you know, hormones control like so many things in the body. So when that is suppressed.

Many, many symptoms can come from that infertility. And then it can penetrate other areas of brain. So thinking, reasoning, remembering.

Areas of the brain can become shrunken or swollen. Neither one is good. Depending on where it lands, you're getting hypofunction or hyper function, depending on where it lands. And there are scans for this, and there's testing for blood brain barrier permeability. But kind of like you mentioned before, like, sometimes the testing is great, gives you more information. But if you're exposed to mobile for a long time and you are having, you know, poor recall, anxiety, twitching, loss of muscle mass, you can basically assume, Brian, the blood brain barrier is penetrated and there's. There's some mycotoxins in your brain. So.

Yeah, to me, like, that's all pretty fascinating and informative like you said. Some people may not believe it, just knowing that little bit, you're like, oh, that sounds pretty bad, right?

Yeah. And it's funny.

I've changed the way that I speak to clients after I talk to people like you because I learned stuff and then I try to sort of like pass that along to kind of do what we're doing right now, like help people sort of understand what's happening and kind of what needs to happen. So at first I think when people think of breathing, you're like, I breathe in my lungs. And then you're like, okay, that's all that I do. And then you start. Now, more recently, there's been an understanding of the connection between breathing straight to your gut, because you could breathe straight into your gut and you can impact that. So then it's like now you got like kind of two paths that you could get into. But now when you're breathing, you could be breathing straight into your brain as well. Because that's basically what you're saying, right? I don't want the words in your mouth. That's kind of what you're saying.

I mean, you do breathe through your mouth, so to speak, and into your lungs. Your lung is another barrier system that can break down. But yeah, I mean, no matter how it's sort of getting into the bloodstream, you know, your bloodstream is nourishing your brain and it's supposed to. The blood brain barrier is supposed to protect you from, you know, it's supposed to bring in nutrition to the brain and keep out pathogens. But when that barrier is compromised, you can potentially have toxins be entering and maybe nutrients not getting in either. So when that barrier is inflamed or leaky, it's not, it's not just leaky. It can also just. It can be like inflamed. So same with the gut. It's the same kind of barrier and they're, they're like brothers. So we can talk more about what happens with the gut in mold. But, you know, you're getting that gut barrier breakdown and you're getting that brain barrier breakdown, the gut barrier. You may be able to feel, so to speak, a little more because you're getting digestive symptoms. You can't really feel your brain, but you can start manifesting symptoms like depression and kids with adhd, just insomnia.

So some of it's hormonal, some of it's brain based. But I think the brain, even though we all know the brain is in charge of us, we kind of forget because we. We identify as ourselves. But the brain is an organ just like all your other organs. So if you're saying, like, oh, my gut's off, or my adrenals are off or whatever, it's like, that's true, because mold can penetrate those, but it's also the command center is being affected. So, for instance, one symptom a lot of people have, or a few are like, nausea, constipation, indigestion. Yes. Some of that is because your gut's off, but some of that's because just your brain and your nervous system isn't signaling correctly anymore to move things along in that system. That's one error I see people make in treatment is just forgetting the brain is in charge of that movement.

That's just another way to recalibrate your treatment protocol.

Yeah, that's actually a good thought, because you're right. I feel like. I feel like we think of. I mean, I. So you just said it, like, I'm thinking of it that way. It's like each thing is its thing. And, like, yeah, they're kind of connected, but, like, your gut is your gut, your brain is your brain, and your. This is your app. But, like, the brain really is in charge of all of it, and it's, you know, it's interesting. So, like, for me.

And there was. So I have. I haven't tested in a little while. I'm. I'm just starting, like, a new hole protocol process for me. Just saw my doctor last week, but gut problems, sibo, like, mycotoxin issues. Like, all this stuff. This is the benefit of being in all the houses I've been in for all the years I've been doing it. So. So now I'm, like, trying to fix it all. So. But the thing, like, specifically you're talking about, the brain controls other things. So, like, sibo is something that, you know, I'm kind of dealing with. But the explanation to me, it's like, well, mycotoxins are affecting how your brain is communicating to your. Basically, your intestines stuff. And, like, how to move food down, basically. So it's not moving it well enough. Right. Kind of what you were just saying. Right. It's not doing it well enough. It's not getting the signal. It sits around where it's not supposed to sit around, and bam, you get something like sibo, for example, when. Yes, it's something that we have to deal with now. Right. But that wasn't necessarily, like, the reason that it started. Right. And that was kind of like how I was talking to somebody.

Right. 100%. Yeah. I mean, the body does not want bacteria to pile up in the small intestine. And, yeah, just go backwards. Like, why would that be happening? There can be some, like, valve issues, and you could have, like, one big infection that kind of triggered things. But also there's just a motility issue. And I was just talking to the coach who works on our team, and she said 90% of our clients. Clients are constipated. It's just that lack of movement. So you do need to work on healing the brain and be using substances that keep things moving. They're called prokinetics. So things like ginger and artichoke are a couple ideas. I mean, of course, do the basics, too, like exercise and drink water and stuff. Maybe avoid big meals at the end of the day, be eating bigger meals, you know, earlier in the day. But, yeah, I think. I think that's a great example, Ryan. It's like you. You can say, well, I have this condition, but how did you get it? So you got to kind of back up real quick.

We'll keep going a second. 90% of your clients are constipated. Can you. So. So can we explain what constipated means? Because I. I am, too, but I didn't think that I was until I had a conversation, and I was like, oh, crap. I am, like, literally, oh, crap.

Yeah.

My coach said something really funny. She's like, people think they're not constipated because they drink coffee or they take a bunch of magnesium so that things are moving. But what if you didn't? Then you're constipated. So constipated means you haven't had a bowel movement in over 24 hours. So at the minimum, you need one bowel movement a day. But when you're detoxifying, you actually ideally want to have two, two or three bowel movements a day, because you want more chances for that stuff to get out, especially when you're actively detoxing. So there's definitely.

Some movements, no pun intended. And functional medicine community to have more bowel movements. And it is a real struggle for a lot of people. And I think part of it is from that brain thing. Some things that help for that are taking digestive enzymes, maybe apple cider vinegar, some of those prokinetics like I talked about. Magnesium can help.

And then yeah, ultimately like if the brain is involved, I mean why, why are 90% of our people constipated? I think it's a lot of brain based stuff. I also meant to mention fiber is and like good probiotics. So for me in my body, like fiber, mucosal support enzymes usually keep me moving enough, but some people that's still not enough. And we have clients doing 800 milligrams of magnesium a day just to poop. Doing coffee enemies just to poop.

What type of mag. There's so many different. This is so off topic. We'll get back to it. There's so many magnesium types. Like I feel like if I have these questions as somebody who's kind of in the world and then I don't know, then other people are probably going to have questions as well. So like there's like a bunch of magnesium types. I see all these posts like this magnesium is for this and this one's for this and this is for your muscles and this is for food, like all that. What type should you be taking?

Yeah, let's get there. Yeah, because I think it's, I think these conceptual things are great, but we have to kind of give people some real things to do. So yeah, there are a lot of types.

If you're doing it just to move your bowels, in a sense, magnesium citrate is good because it's, it's not real absorbable and you're going to tend to kind of like move it out. So that's, that's. But at the same time, like we sell a chelated magnesium and that means that magnesium is stuck to an amino acid to make it more absorbable for your body. But if I take 700 milligrams of that, I would 100% poop.

So I think some of it is just quantity. There's also magnesium threonate, which is good for your brain. We have a magnesium malate which is good for your cellular ATP. So it's just whatever they're attaching the magnesium to. So some, yeah, are definitely more absorbable or maybe go somewhere. But at the same time, like.

It'S all sort of magnesium. It's all going to play a similar role just with A bit of a.

Twist, so it doesn't matter. So I feel like I got, like, analysis paralysis of the eight different magnesiums, and then I just don't take any of them because I don't know what to take.

I would say if you want a magnesium to get into your cells for things like headaches and, you know, anxiety and, you know, muscle cramps, don't take magnesium citrate. I would take a chelated magnesium.

And ours is. What's ours called? Chelate. Sorry, Chelated magnesium. There's one more word on it anyway, I'm forgetting. But citrate, I think, is more for just. If you like, you just need to go. I would use that one.

Got it. Okay. I didn't mean to sidetrack.

No, I think it's good. Yeah, people have that question. It's confusing.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we were talking how the brain connects to all the different things that are going on. So we talked a little bit to how it's actually to motility and how it affects that. So that's one thing we got off the list.

Where do you want to go from here? I feel like I shouldn't be driving this.

Hormones. We didn't get into that too much. So we just so far talked about it can inflame your hypothalamus, which can mean, like, sort of low hormone production. But there's more to it. It definitely has a thyroid connection. Lots of people who've been exposed to mold have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis. The gut has been compromised. There's inflammation, there's immune dysregulation. So Hashimoto's can develop or just poor thyroid conversion or production. So you have to convert to an active form of thyroid to feel it for, like, your energy and your metabolism. Some of that conversion happens in the liver, a lot of it. And the liver is not very happy. When you're living in a moldy home.

There'S a few other ways that thyroid hormone can be suppressed and mold. So I think that's actually a really great thing. You can potentially check and get supplemented for, like, actually, do, you know, thyroid hormone replacement? Because the act of, like, going through, you know, a molding home and moving or doing whatever you need to do is exhausting.

Yeah.

And I know for me, Brian, like, I was a natural practitioner, I never really had taken hormone replacement or I sort of had, like, a bad attitude about it. And in retrospect, I wish I had done more of it sooner because it takes a little tweaking to, like, find the right thyroid supplement and this and that. But, you know, getting your testosterone up, if that's low, getting, you know, supporting your adrenals if they're depleted, getting your thyroid working better, it's just going to give you more energy for the fight, so to speak.

No, that's. That's a good thing. So I, you know, I hear hormone a lot, right. And how, you know, but I don't. Like, how would I know? How would I feel a hormone imbalance or deficiency or something like that? Like, how would somebody even. I mean, obviously you could do tests and stuff for it, but what if you're just kind of like doing like, internal inventory on yourself and trying to see what that feels like?

Yeah. I'll tell you some typical thyroid symptoms. Thyroid hormone is pretty easy to test with blood testing. You just want to get, like, a thorough test. You know, I have those markers in my book. Or just be seen like a functional doctor who, you know, knows the right things to test for.

But, yeah, unfortunately, a lot of. A lot of it does overlap with mold toxicity. You know, fatigue, maybe gaining weight.

It could be, you know, your eyebrows are thinning, your hair is falling out, you're constipated, cold hands and feet, foggy brain, sleeping a lot. But I had a thyroid issue, and I was not a typical thyroid person. I'm pretty thin. I don't ever get constipated.

You can't always go right down the list because we're all a little different. I think that's one worth getting checked. I guess I'd say, especially sleeping a.

Lot.

You know, can't lose weight, would be kind of like two big ones.

So I was just watching Jill Carnahan put, like, snippets of the talk that she just did recently on Instagram. I don't know if you saw those come through or not. And one of them. Yeah, she's putting a bunch. I think she's snipping them in the interval. So I didn't see all of them, I don't think, but I saw one that was about weight gain.

And how did she. How did she say it?

Oh, it was like in the whole concept of the. What's. What's. The guy who said this initially, Jill. Krista quotes it. She just quoted it. The solution and delusion is pollution. Was that Walter Crinian that originally said that?

Maybe. I don't know.

I forget. But I've heard that. And everybody always, like, refers to who it came from. So, like, I feel like I just don't remember who it was.

Somebody who knows a lot of stuff.

But yeah, I should get that person on who knows some stuff.

So anyways, she mentioned that. But then anyways, the tie in was that the body is storing and bringing in more fat, not letting it go because mycotoxins want to get into fat and trying to dilute. Like, this is my understanding what she said. So tell me if I thought it right then, and the body's trying to dilute or. Or diminish the amount of. Of fat that's impacted by the toxin by adding a bunch more fat so it's not like it's more balanced or something. Does that make sense at all that I understand?

Yes. That's one reason we can gain weight sometimes quickly when we're exposed to toxins. And it can happen in other situations, too, like different cancer treatments or something. Yeah, the body can't keep up with processing the toxins, so it stores them in fat. But there's other reasons we gain weight when we're supposed to mold. And one of them could be the thyroid that we just talked about. One could be you have poor gut health, not enough bowel movements, so you're cycling toxins back in, and that's creating a load. One thing you can be recycling back in is estrogen. And estrogen makes us grow, so to speak. So that can be some of the weight gain. Also, mycotoxins, some of them are estrogenic. They look like estrogen to the body, so that can create growth. Also, cells can be inflamed, so it's blocking the normal, like, intake of a healthy level of hormones into the cells. Instead, they're just kind of floating around, and then, yeah, they're getting put into fat tissue as storage. So.

You know, I say I gained a little bit of weight when I was at my very sickest because I was just kind of like, not exercising and like, using more carbs to just, like, get through the day. But some people, like, literally will, you know, gain 50 pounds really quickly even though they're eating well. Other people can go the other way, though. They can, you know, be nauseous and not eating and losing weight.

What do you see more often? Do you see gain or loss?

I would say gain.

But I wouldn't say it's like the number one complaint, you know, and it could also. All people are like, well, I have these extra, you know, 10, 20 pounds that a lot of people complain about. I think people, you know, especially going through something like this are more concerned at that point about you know, the quality of their life and how their brain's working kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the brain stuff. So basically we've gone down this road, we're exposed to stuff. A lot of stuff that I'm talking about today.

You're doing great, Ryan.

I'm on my game. I love my game today. There's a stuff with these things, and they mess you up a little bit. And the end.

Should we talk more about solutions or I could talk about more hormones. Yeah. I want. What do you think would help people to most?

Yeah. So I sort of kind of recap like where I think we're almost telling the story. Like, someone gets exposed. This is sort of how it's manifesting and building up. Right. And here's some of the symptoms that you see. You even talked earlier about almost the. Sure, there's a better way to say this, but almost like the PTSD reaction that comes when you smell something that you were exposed to in the past, and then it triggers things when. Even though you're not necessarily exposed to it at that moment. I had this talk with Dr. Tesla year too, on the episode I did with her a while ago, but we didn't get like, super, super into it. But that's just a. Almost like a muscle memory kind of thing that's going on. Right. It's like your body's like, oh, crap, this reminds me of this. And then it goes into like, fight or flight. Is that kind of the concept behind something like that?

Yeah, basically. Yeah. So it is sort of a.

Protection, sort of behavioral reaction. But then there's these things actually cascade from there, like releasing inflammatory cytokines to respond, that kind of a thing.

You know, blood pressure going up. So it's. It's like a physical thing.

That sort of starts with almost more of like.

Emotional trigger, but sort of.

Yeah, because I think as soon as you sniff something, it's not so much that it's overwhelming you, but the body's like, afraid of what's coming.

So it's like a physiological trigger that happens that you don't really know about, but it still creates. So this is the thing that's really interesting. And so I, you know, there's been people that I know of, like, listen, we went through the house, found the stuff in the house. The house is in a good spot going through, you know, whatever treatment that they're going through, and things are going well. They get a hit somewhere and, you know, an exposure piece somewhere. And then all the symptoms come back, Right. And then they kind of last for a little bit, too. At least from what I've been. You know, people told to me, it's not like it just goes away as soon as you walk out of wherever you were exposed to it from the people I've talked to, anyways. Yeah. And then. And then it's this whole thing of, like, well, then they get back to their house, right. And then they think there's something new at their house because the symptoms are, like, not turning off. Right when they leave wherever the exposure happened, Right. So, like, I go into 7 11, I get a whiff of their terrible air conditioning system that has mold all up in it. Bam. I have a reaction. I go back home. My reaction lasts for X in a period of time. And now I think that there's something still going on in my house when really that's not the case. Right. It was handled. And nothing new has happened at that point. But the body sort of freaked out right. When it saw this thing. So I think. I think that's a piece that I have not seen a whole lot talked about on that side of it. And I know part of that is like, brain retraining or limbic retreat. I don't know.

Something sort of retraining, getting more popular. Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to talk about that because that's more the stage I'm in. Right. I've been. I'm out of mold. I'm in a safe space house, and it's getting less and less for me. But one thing that developed for me after the mold exposure and plus maybe some parts about the age I'm at is just a recurrence of some old, like, airborne asthma. I used to get out, like, allergic asthma. So the body, you know, it's pretty smart, but, you know, it's also. You've been through something very traumatic that you inhaled and other things you inhale now, it's like, what's this?

What's this?

So for me, that's been pollen. So I got some reactions to pollen that are over the top. And I've been slowly working on it so I can talk more about what I did. But some of that cascade can be histamine. So that's an immune signaling thing. And many of us with mold are dealing with a histamine overload or that later we're having that. So, say this client in your example got exposed somewhere, and it may be one night that they don't feel well. It could be a week, depending on what they're going through. Because now all the inflammation has come back up. So a, you want to decrease that inflammation in the moment with things like binders and Epsom salt bath and rinsing out your nose. Definitely take a shower, put your clothes in the wash.

And then you want to reduce that reactivity. Right. Like, you know, some we have to go into 7, 11 sometimes that's like, it's never very pleasant for anybody, but we should be able to, you know, do it right for the most part. So we do have. That's that limbic system retraining. And there's these programs like Gupta program, Annie Hopper. I will also say from my own life experience.

Well, a few things. So there's other ways to like calm your nervous system besides these exact things. There's, you know, using essential oils, doing coaching, doing certain, like, nootropics that are calming, that kind of thing. So that was sort of like my path. It's. It's a slow path, but all of this is a slow path. And then there's just like reducing any other triggers that could be contributing. So for histamine reactions, a lot of it has to do with gut health. Like your gut breaks down histamines. So if you're getting exposed to histamines or histamines are, you know, like, for me, with the pollen, I'm getting some histamines. A colleague of mine, you know, pointed out, he's like, well, you still have some triggers going. And I was like, oh, yeah, duh. So I did some parasite cleansing and stuff this year. The gut always needs pretty much periodically, so just clearing some of those other factors that may be contributing to histamine intolerance is one way to approach it as well. From the physical level.

Yeah, I think that's helpful. So much is focused on our side especially. So much is focused on find it, get it removed properly. Cool, you're good, right? And then there's the health side that takes longer, right. Depending on what's going on. But then you kind of hit this point where like, okay, we've done what we need to do, but that doesn't mean that like the body is still not gonna react like later on, you know, and it's like kind of get to these steps and then you kind of forget like that last thing. Like there's kind of this like wrap up phase that has to go at the end of it, which you explained it very well. It's like a trauma, right? So now you have to deal with this trauma piece after you've gotten rid of the trauma, right, which happens A lot in other situations that people. Right?

Yeah, 100%. And just like in other situations it goes on longer than you want and you're like, I thought we worked on this and here we are again, right?

Here we are.

So yeah, that. But for me and I probably for a lot of people listening, because that's why they're listening. It's like, I really, I want my body to work the best it can. You know, sometimes I still make choices that aren't the best and some things that aren't great for histamine spines are like tea and chocolate and coffee. And I still have some of those things. But I keep learning and you know, in my recovery years, which have been like the past, you know, five years or so, I keep learning, like finding new little like tweaks and hacks that do improve things for me. So, you know, this stage is not as dramatic as the early stage, but you can definitely still make progress and just still be learning things that help you.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's, listen, moles aren't going anywhere. And you know, it's funny because everyone's like, oh, we live with mole for so long and this and that. But then you also look at like, stuff like chronic issues that have continued to increase while our living situations have gotten worse over time. And I'm not saying it's like a direct correlation, but like, just because we're just now starting to realize it doesn't mean that it didn't exist before and you weren't exposed to it. You just didn't know any better. Right? So it used to just be, oh, we're getting old. You forget stuff when you get old. Oh, Alzheimer happens when you get old. It's just something that happens when you get old. Right. Like now we're able to connect some dots, Right? It's not always 100% correlated, but you're able to connect some dots, thoughts and, and it's like, oh, now all of a sudden. Well, it's not that all of a sudden it's just causing these things. It's just now we're finally like realizing it and able to share it. Yeah, yeah.

As I was getting ready for this call, I was kind of reading that like mold can contribute to liver cancer and why. And you know, that's how my father in law died maybe four years ago. And you know, he lived in the Pacific Northwest like most of his life. And I was just like, and he wasn't rich, you know, and it just kind of made me think, huh. So. And you Know, he lived here while he was going to cancer treatment. And I can tell you that zero people had any concern about where this cancer may have developed from. Right. So that's conversation that you and I can have and, you know, people can participate in online. And I think. I just think it's. It's exciting, you know, that. Yeah, it's getting awareness.

Yeah. I mean, you guys. I say we. I mean, you guys are learning so much. I'm just, like, siphoning it out like my own parasite and taking it.

No, I learned so much for you. Yeah, I just interviewed you last week because I'm like, I don't know, like, you know, the home is just as complicated is basically what I've learned. It may seem easy to you now, but, yeah, to me, it's still. Home is still really complicated. So I. And they just go hand in hand. So it's just great. We can, you know, put the information together for people.

Yeah, of course. I had this other question. It was kind of awful what we were talking about, but I had another person that I'm talking to, client that I'm talking to, and they were. They've. They've gone out and found, like, a lot of.

So word that I want to use. They've gone out and found, like, specific doctors that are, like, really kind of like, pushing the envelope in different types of testing, different types of things that might be even beyond maybe what some of the core functional docs are doing. Right. And I have no concept for whether it's good or not good or whatever, but one of the things that they came back and told me was that they found in a blood test, they found more mold in their blood, but not like an antibody or something, but like, they actually did some sort of test that found mold in their blood. And I just. Because we're talking about blood barrier and how stuff moves around and all of that, I know I'm putting on the spot. We didn't really talk about this. You could not know the answer, and that's fine. But I mean, have you heard of anything where you're able to kind of do that in a test?

You know, it's funny, I had somebody on a group call recently say. Say the same thing, that they found mold in a blood test. And I asked the same thing. I was like, was it an antibody? So I don't think I know fully what that type of test is.

Yeah, it was interesting because it was one of the molds that comes up on. On an army panel. So there's like, Correlation to like the army that was in the house. And it was. The mole was called Muker or Mucor, but. But that was the mole that was there. And. And so, you know, I see that all the time. Shows up, you know, on the panels and stuff. And then they like saw that in the blood. And however this was done and you know, when. When we talk. So let's get off of that specifically. But more interestingly just. Or to kind of go more into how, how this passes into the blood. I guess we talk about how like blood is. You know, we were talking earlier how it gets into the, you know, in your brain. It kind of moves around, does all this stuff. What's actually getting into the blood?

I think more of like the toxic end products, byproducts are my understanding of what gets in the blood. As far as mold living in the body, I hear about it more like colonizing in different type of tissue, like the biofilm of the nose or the gut. Like those two are pretty known. It can happen there. I think there's some theory about it being in lung tissue in.

Even bone I read about once.

But yeah, I don't know. Is it actually.

Getting into the blood itself? I thought more the toxic products were getting into the blood.

Got it. And it could be. I have no idea is when. When we're clearly. I have no idea when we're talking about.

So is it. Talking about. Inflammation is obviously a big piece of it. Right. So your brain gets inflamed and then so you kind of broke down the difference. There was inflammation and there was like actual permeability of what's going on. I guess that's how I understood it. Are those. Are they two different things when you talk about that, or is one kind of create the other one? Or does inflammation create the hermit ability.

Kind of the first? So the way that like mycotoxins interact with the body can create inflammation and like immune reaction that can break down this barrier and like the toxin itself can just break down the barrier. I feel like I have some quotes I could read, but I don't know if I can find them fast.

Okay.

Yeah. So inflammation is happening like on the cellular level and on like the immune level because a lot of immune markers are inflammatory markers. So the body is supposed to have some amount of inflammation to respond to, like you ate something that was bad for you or you stubbed your toe or whatever the problem is. And even if you're say exposed to mold, like super intermittently, a healthy gut can process that, you know, a Healthy immune system can potentially process that. You know, if you're pooping every day, you can be honestly process that. It's more the like the chronic nature of, of the mold that becomes the problem. So a lot of people ask me once they're out of mold, like, you know, I visit my mother every now and then and I think that house is moldy and you know, it is a new exposure that you may want to sit in the yard instead of go in or whatever. But I don't think those quick exposures are nearly as troublesome as just the chronic. Living in an everyday exposure, that's what really starts to break down the systems because yeah, initially you're going to deal with it like the house I lived in, I didn't notice anything at first.

You know, it took time for symptoms to just like increase and increase and increase to the point where, you know, that got mentioned as a possibility.

Yeah, yeah. But then before we were talking about earlier though, so now you've kind of gone through the recovery piece, then you go back into the house that has, has the issue and then maybe you do notice a short term reaction from some of the kind of unconscious physiological things that go on.

Yeah. That is an example of the body being smarter now is like, oh, you know, we know what this is like. And going back to that blood test real quick, you know, I think this is still an emerging field and one thing we do in our practice is we'll just like review labs for you and if it's a good lab result, you know, we can read it and get a sense of like, is this an antibody thing? Or like what exactly is going on here? So, you know, I'm, I'd be curious for that kind of test and I think we'll see, you know, more testing over time. I don't even know what it'll be, which is kind of exciting.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Like I think you and I both like, if there's, I want to see all the things I can see. Right. Give me all the data, let me see everything.

Does it necessarily like every time influence, like however you're going to handle something or treat something or address it, like probably not. Right. Like if you have enough of the other things that you know what you're going to do. Like do you need that to. I mean maybe not, but like it's nice to see it just to help like tweak and dial certain things in, in some cases, you know, like I was, I was talking with my doctor last week. She's like, listen, we could run, you know, X, Y and Z. But she's like, she's like, I'm sure that, you know, when you go in somewhere, if you suspect that something looks like something, you have a pretty good feel for it. And if you have seven other things that line up with that, you kind of know what's going on. She's like, so you know, I could run it if you want to do it. Like, I know that you're, you know, I know that you really like seeing all of that stuff, but I. She's like, but for what I'm doing, like, I don't think that it's really going to impact, like, my plan.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of that. You know, finances are a real consideration when someone also has a multi home and maybe they're not working. So sometimes they'll say to clients, like, if I had a magic wand, like, blank check, I would run all these three chests. But right now, if, if you know that's not in the cards, let's just run this test. So I think that's okay. You know, you can use some discernment like that. And, you know, even with detox, like, a lot of it's the same, like, get in the sauna, drink water, make sure you're pooping, get sunshine. Like, we don't necessarily have to know everything that's in there to get it out.

The gut testing has been helpful for me with certain things. But at the same time, I talked about this in the summit you were on. If you increase the strength of the organism, you will start fighting that stuff off.

For me, I did do Epstein Barr protocols, parasite protocols, all this stuff, and maybe it really was necessary because it reduced some of that burden on the body. And those things, things produce toxic, you know, their own toxins.

You know, but. But maybe also if I had just kind of kept strengthening the host, so to speak.

Those things would have fallen away. So this is sort of more of a philosophical argument about how to treat. But it also can be financial too, because I know people and you probably heard this too, Ryan. It's like people can be really, like annoyed and fatigued with like, how much all these things cost. And they feel like, oh, I've got to do this cool thing. I heard about, you know, the IV therapy or this or that. It's like, you don't necessarily have to. There's lots of ways to get better. So, you know, it's. It's a. Maybe a big ask of people, but I do Say, like, you know, kind of use your discernment. Use, like, your gut instincts. Don't, like, choose from a place of fear. Choose from, like, a place of, you know, interest and that kind of thing.

Yeah, we worked out for me, kind of like a phase thing. We're like, so we're going to start here, and then if symptoms don't get better, we're not. Then we're going to do this. This test after that, and we're going to see if maybe there's something else going on. So instead of, like, doing it all up at the front, we're kind of, like, phasing into it and, like, see how that went. So that's what we ended up doing. That's a good idea.

Yeah. And like, I want something. Clients are coming, and they still in the molding home, and they've spent thousands of dollars on testing. And I'm like, we're just going to have to do all this again later to see how you're coming along. So that's another way to kind of think about the timing of everything.

That's a really good point because I obviously that see that piece of it a lot, right. Like, to go through a house and do it the right way and get what we need to get to know, like, do you need to replace an H vac system or can you clean it? Right. Like that. That's a huge difference in cost on, like, the fixed side of things. But there's certain tests that we need to know which would alter that decision. Right. And so there's an expensive test. On the grand scheme of things, if we do those number of tests and they all come back, we're like, wow. We think that this is cleanable, not replaceable. You just save like, 20 grand and replacing an H vac system. Right. If not, then now we know that you have to replace it. Right. But, like, those things will sort of drive that decision. But kind of what you're saying, and I actually heard.

Dr. Bredesen, I was on a live with him thinking the other day, and he was talking about how the average amount spent for somebody who has Alzheimer's, like, during the treatment phase of all of that stuff, however long that goes, is $350,000 over the term of dealing with that until they're gone, basically.

And it's just one of those things, like, you're so in it, I think, sometimes. And this. This concept, like, applies to so many things, but, like, for this, sometimes you're so, like, in it that each individual thing is, like, really Spiking and standing out as you're kind of seeing it. But, like, when you take a step back and try and try to get, like, a more macro view of what's going on, you realize that, well, in the grand scheme of things, like, this little piece might be more right here, but, like, the. What you're looking at big pictures way up here, right? So, like, understanding what's happening at the front end is super important. That's kind of what you're saying. Just a second ago, what I took out of it was like, why. Why spend thousands and thousands and thousands on medical testing when we know that the house is a problem, right? And it's almost like what my doctor's doing with me right now, which is, listen, we're going to phase into this stuff first. We have to do this first. Focus what you're doing there. Let's not run these other tests over here that we don't need yet. We don't even know if we're going to need them yet. Focus on the first thing, then go to the second thing. And one thing that over the years, I've taken away from all of you smart people out there is that, you know, the exposure wins at some point. There's only so much you can do if you're in the environment where stuff is going on. And, you know, a lot of. And I think there's almost like this sunk cost feel sometimes, because by the time people get to us a lot, it's. They've been working with folks like you and been spending money on testing and supplements and IVs and like, all the things, you know, that kind of come through, like the detox process and figuring it all out. And, you know, it gets better and then it plateaus and maybe it goes worse or whatever's going on because they're still in the space, you know, where things are happening and. But in the mind, in their mind again. Because I feel like we get. So when you're in the tornado that's spinning around, you can't see everyone everywhere, right? And so, like, you're kind of like in the tornado, you don't really have concept for what's what. And it's like, I've spent, you know, 15, 20 grand on medical stuff already. And then to test my house is how much, and to go through the house is how much. Like, well, I'm already kind of where I like, I don't want to do that here. I want to get better, right? And it's almost like switching, like, the.

Priorities, focus on the thing that seems easier and not do that thing. Yeah, yeah.

And that's a very long about way of me just you kind of triggering something in my mind. It's like it's understanding the relationship between the two. Like, the reality is that you're not dealing with a mold issue in your body or a mycotoxin issue or all these side effects that we've been talking about for any other reason than you're being exposed to something and it's building up in you. Right. Like, if you weren't being exposed to it and it wasn't building up in you, then you wouldn't have to be going down this road. So really the first thing is then to kind of figure that piece of it out and almost switch. Not to say that the health piece isn't a priority, of course that it is, but like, you could spend all this money on the health thing, but if you're still having the reason that it started in the first place, you're going to be spending all that money again. Right. So I try to think that through and I don't know if it makes sense to say, okay, listen, if we're going to start diving into a house journey of fixing the house pieces of things, do we look at what we're doing on the health side of stuff? And it's a question more than me giving an answer. Do you look at what's happening on the health side of stuff? So, okay, here's everything that we're doing right now. Like, we've been trying detox, we've been trying this, we've been trying that. Whatever. Whatever it is that's been going on, and it hasn't really been working to the expectation. And maybe that's why the house thing comes up. Is there a way to dial that back more to some sort of maintenance mode of some way to then reallocate the dollars that are being spent over there more towards the original source of the problem, which is the exposure piece. I don't know what the answer is.

Yeah, no, I totally get your question. Yeah. I mean, if you're still being exposed because you haven't quite decided, like, are you moving out or maybe you're sorting through your things or, you know, you're in that. In that phase of the house where, you know there's a problem and you're working on it or deciding what to do, it's not the time to do a parasite protocol or, you know, spend a bunch of. It's definitely not the time to like buy a Sauna and stick it in that house. Yeah, we can kind of get caught in the weeds. And when you were on my live recently, it's like, can I bring my house plants? What kind of air filter should I get? I'm like, those are small things. Like, let's take care of the big one, which is the house. And yeah, I don't think it's the time. You may want to do, like I mentioned, some hormone testing to just give yourself some of that, like, fortification as you go through that. That's not really part of the detox process. So that could be, I think, an option to get you through to help. And you may want to, like I said earlier, use binders. You know, take. Take the shower and then do the nasal wash after you've been in the home. Like, for us, we were in a different place, but we come back to the house and, like, deal with it. Right. And so we had, like, clothes we would take off and, you know, we had these certain procedures. And when we're back at the new place, I would go to use the sauna or, you know, take my binders and do certain things. But then, yeah, the real, like, healing, where you want to maybe be doing. Running that gut test or, like, doing. Doing more protocols is probably going to be after. Right. You know, it doesn't make sense to be doing all that. And I think you had a great point about, like, stepping back.

It's just what makes sense. And the house part is. Is very hard. It's very challenging. It's very expensive. But I now that I suppose I'm doing a lot of interviews lately, I see so many people still in the house, and they're asking me about supplements to take and stuff like that. And there's one lovely, lovely woman, only like, 29 or something, and she was still in the apartment for five years. I'm like, look, email me when you're out and then we will talk. Like, it just is like. And I know how it is because my brain was spinning too when I was going through all this. But it's like, let's stop the spinning. Let's take care of, like, the biggest enemy, which is you're still being exposed.

So, yeah, I basically agree and say, like, save the heavy lifting for later, just for now. You know, drink clean water, eat real food. Like, take melatonin if you can't sleep. Like, just take care of some of the basic things until you're in a safe home.

Yeah. Some of the things that aren't super expensive, that are like, Things that you can do to almost kind of like be on maintenance mode as much as you can and help a little bit. You know, it's. It's funny, like I was talking to, like I said, I saw my doctor last week and been. I've been working with her patients for years and years and years, which is partially where I developed all of the issues. I feel like she like, feels like she owes me or something.

So. So I was talking to her and you know, I've been talking to her throughout the years and stuff. And she's like, listen, I haven't talked to her in a couple years. She's like, listen, you have to get out of the houses. Like, you know, for whatever reason. You just, you know, it's whatever you need to get out. And so I kind of explain, you know, our new, you know, the setup and how everything's working. She's like, cool, okay, now let's, now let's like dive into it, right? But that's always been like, we've been talking about it for years. I'm like, yes, the plan is that I'm not going to physically be in the house anymore. We're going to create a system where I can be there and have other people and rotate them out so the exposures aren't significant for everybody. You know, like really trying to think through all this stuff for everybody. And so now that we're there, it's like, okay, cool. Now let's really get into what's going on. Here's your first week. Here's weeks two to seven. We relook at stuff here. Here's what we're doing afterwards. And here comes the fun part, right? But I just spent $800 on stuff, on supplements and parasite this and detox that. Like all the things that people get. And.

If you're comparing that, like if I'm someone else, I'm like, okay, 800 bucks to get all the things that are supposed to do all the things right. Or I have to go through my house and fix my house and tens of thousands of dollars to do all the remediation. I'm naturally going to be inclined to lead towards the $800 supplement side of things. But then you have to think, how long are you taking that? How long would you have to do that? Because kind of like forever. Ish. Almost. Because if the exposure is always there and it's almost like this, like long term, like that 800 keeps at. That's a monthly cost. Like if that's what you're doing Right. So, like, you're in, you know, you're in 10 grand for a year, but you haven't been out exposure yet. So you have to do it for another year. You have to do it for another year. And next thing, you know, like, long term cost, if you just handle the house in the first place, like, all that stuff on the back end would have started coming down. And that's the whole idea of like taking that step back and seeing it in that different view that a lot of times you don't see when you're just comparing 800 for supplements for the month or, you know, 20,000 to remediate a couple rooms in my house or whatever it is. Right?

Yeah, exactly. I think it's great we're just preaching this right now because it's the thing that people are doing without realizing. Right? And you're seeing it and I'm seeing it. I'm not trying to just take your money. I'm literally saying, go give it to Brian. Like, go work on your house. Like, I know, you know, it's not. We're not in this, you know, to like make a buck. You know, we're in this to, like, tell you the right order of things so you don't waste money. And I waste a lot of money. Like, not knowing how to remediate correctly, which is why I wrote a $20 book about it. Like, that can save you tens of thousands of dollars as well. So, you know, again, take that step back. Get yourself educated. That's why this podcast is great. Like, get yourself educated before you start ripping up your house or, you know, you spend $3,000 at a new clinic. Because, yeah, it's like the order of things with money does matter. And yeah, you're not going to like how I still know moldy house. Do you think you're going to get rid of Candida? No, this is not going to happen. So why you keep spending money on that? And yeah, it's tough, but I think since I went through it personally, it makes it easier for me to say, like, look, this is what you have to do. I know, it's now I'm really saying Ryan too. I'm like, go live with that relative that you don't even like that much. Like, I don't care. Stop being in the place. You know, it's been years. You're not going to get better. You know, you're going to get liver cancer or something like Alzheimer's. Like, do you want those things? No. So I know these are really tough choices. But, yeah, getting away from the exposure is so critical and really, like, the. The rest is the aftermath. And that's what I do, really. I work on the aftermath. And I'm almost glad, Brian, that, like, I've gotten to know you better and, like, the subject matter, because a lot of you, I get in these interviews who want to know about the house. The house, the house. And in a way, I'm glad because it is the first thing, right. You need to. You need to understand how mold grows in the house and what to do about it, because it's an environmental illness, so the environment needs to be addressed kind of first.

Yeah. I want to dive just, like, in one more thing. And I feel like. I don't know if you've heard this. I've heard this from people where they're like, this doctor wouldn't even work with me because I'm in this house. And they're, like, pissed off at the doctor. Right. And it kind of depends how that whole conversation went, Right. If it's one of the things where, like, I won't even talk to you until you're out of the place or something more like what you're talking about. Like, I've been talking this person for five years, and they haven't handled the situation at some point. Like. Like handle the situation. Right. I think those are two very different, like, scenarios that happen. But there's. There's a reason that they're telling you this, right? Like, it's. It's so interesting because there are. There are some doctors that I've, you know, kind of heard of out there, and even inspectors to do it in their own way or whatever. It doesn't get pitched to somebody like this, but it turns into this. Where now I'm on an IV subscription plan with the doctor's office because I have to keep getting IVs to counteract and counterbalance whatever the hell is going on in my exposure issues. But I'm still in the house. So, like, it's not actually going to fix anything. And I'm doing, you know, whatever the. Whatever the IV concoction is that we're doing that's, you know, glutathione drips, nad drips, whatever it is to, like, help, like, combat this stuff. But it's. It's like you're on a subscription plan, right? Because. Because it's not. There's no end in sight, right? So unless there's an endpoint where it's like, listen, once you're out of the space, we have a baseline for where you are now. Our goal is by here, we would love to be somewhere around here, and by here, we'd love to be somewhere around here. And what you look like, does it always match that? Of course. Like, it's not always going to be exactly like we're planning, but at least there's a plan of progression. And ultimately the goal is to not see me again. Right. Like, that's. That's the goal. Right. I would imagine. And when. When you're talking to someone, this is more just like, for people listening. Like. Like, check yourself. If you're in this situation, if you're working with your doctor, and it's like, all right, IVs, binders, this, that I need to see you every so often, you're still in the house. There's no end plan in place. You're on a subscription plan that's going to cost you way more in the long run than fixing the problem in the first place. You are. You're on a mobile medical subscription plan, and that's not what you need to be doing. On the inspection side of this, I see people going into houses, running ermies in, like, 10 different rooms, which is the biggest waste of fricking money ever. And then telling them to fog the house, and then they fog the house, and the house is better for a month or two months. And then it gets bad again because, of course, all the sources are still there. And then they start reacting again. And then the person's like, oh, you gotta run more Ermes, and we'll figure out what's going on. And then. And they're on a freaking army subscription plan. And. But they're making them do every single room in the house every time. Like, it's freaking insane. It's absolutely insane.

I haven't heard that crazy.

So, you know, everyone who's listening just kind of think of, you got. There's got to be a plan, right? There's got to be an end goal. There's not an end goal and a path to get to that goal, then whatever you're doing and whoever you're working with and whatever the plan is, the plan's wrong. Like, like, otherwise you're just sending money for no reason, basically. So just think that through. But it's not always the doctor being a dick, saying, hey, if you don't get out of the house, then, you know, f you. That's not what they're trying to say, really. What they're trying to do is show you. And please don't let me talk for you. But just like, what I've gathered from people is like, if you don't get out of this, stuff's not going to get better. At some point I have to draw a line and be somebody who's going to try to push you to make this thing that's actually going to. Going to make the impact that you're looking at. Says Dr. Brian, who's not a doctor.

No, yeah, I totally agree. And you know, it is why with all like the love and respect as someone going has gone through it, like, I'm given a little tougher answers now, like, you know, about moving. There's another woman. I think it's a good example of what you just said. She's the one who came with me with all this labs, like, super knowledgeable. Everyone comes to us already super knowledgeable. You know, run labs, taking supplements, you know, really sick. Like rashes all over her body, can't work. Like, I think she's got like dizziness or something. And she's like, her husband's like a contractor. She said, well, we're planning to build a new house and you know, we can be in it in like two years. And I'm like, okay, what are we doing between that, you know, and. And it's hard because I don't know all her options. But I was like, you know, get really centered. Think about your options. One thing we came up with is living kind of in her, on her screen and porch. Just like a big porch, you know, when it's warm enough or whatever. It's like, you just gotta like, get out of the exposure. This is two more years of your life you're talking about. So I don't know her status right now and what's going on with that, but, you know, you do have to be creative and, you know, brave and see what opportunities are out there for you to, you know, move on or get out. And I'm really thankful for my ex husband because I was a sicker one. And I was like, I don't.

I don't want to deal with this, you know, and he was like, you know, let's go, let's go. And that's, that's probably rare that, you know, a spouse is like, yeah, I.

Feel like it's the opposite.

I know. I think it's because he's an engineer. He's like, very practical. He was a little sick. So, you know, he got it and yeah, you know, it. So I sometimes have to be that person now for people to give them a little push.

Yeah, one last example on this and we can wrap this up. So I was talking to somebody else, so went through their house, kind of. There's a lot of stuff going on. So. But it was the same kind of thing. Like, there's this, like, little timeline. Like there's a plan in the next year and a half or two years or whatever for something else. I said the same thing. Two years is a long. A long time. So you're just going to sit in here for two years when you know all this stuff is going on and not do anything. And then we started talking about, like, the market, the real estate market and this and that and kind of everything that's going on. And it's like, listen, I can't ever talk about, like, the morality of selling your house or not selling your house. You absolutely have to disclose everything that's there. That's all that you can do. As long as you're being upfront and honest about stuff, like, that's what you can do. But listen, the market's up right now, right? Like everyone. You could sell a house with dead people in it and it would still sell over asking right now. So. So listen, I know there's an expense. There's an expense that's coming up with you. There's this whole other financial side of stuff that nobody thinks about. I actually really like that side of stuff. That's why I, like, in Urmy code, I do like a whole breakdown in the back end of all the things to think about and the cost of all the stuff and how to, like, balance it out and figure out what you're spending and everything.

But.

The only reason I thought about this because this happened to me when I was a kid and my dad. So before the big bubble burst in 2008, when all the real estate prices were skyrocketing up at that time, my dad asked me at that time, I'm. I don't know, in my 20s somewhere. And my dad, he's like, hey, you know, I was kind of thinking about maybe selling the house, you know, because it's like he owned 200 and it was. He could get like 700 to sell it or something. It was like, ridiculous. We lived in Vegas, so that was like the biggest peak of the boom in the bus was in Vegas.

And I was like, yeah, I mean, that's cool. But, like, where would you live after? Like, if your house is marked up this much, that means every other house is marked up this much. So, like, are you really getting the benefit of selling the house if you're going to have to overpay for something else, right? And I was like, I hadn't. I just didn't know enough yet, right? He's like, we're like, oh, okay. He ends up not selling the house. Few years later, I'm like, how stupid was I? Sell the house, go rent something, pocket what you would have made on the sale, rent something for a little bit, wait for stuff to come down, buy in later, and bam, you just like. Like, this is how people make money in the stock market, right? Like, I didn't even, like, think about it at the time. And so anyway, so I had this. I've always had this, like, scenario in the back of my head because I. There was like this one lesson I'll never forget, right? You just kind of apply to different things. So we're in another market like that, right? And so I'm saying, like, listen, we know that there's like 12, 13, however many things are going on in our house, right? And if your plan is that you're not going to fix any of this because you're going to move in like a year or two and you're not trying to put a whole bunch of money in here, then your options are either you just stay in this place for two years, you already know what it's doing to you, and now every time you look around, because you really know where it is, you're probably going to have even more stress and all that other stuff that comes from it. So there's that. Or sell the place. This wasn't even an option. Selling wasn't even an option in their mind. Why don't you sell the place right now? Go rent something. We have. Molefinder's method teaches you how to go through a house so you don't get into a house that's as bad as this one. So you know that you'll end up in a. A spot that's not as bad as this. You'll be in a better spot. You'll be out of this. You'll have pocketed the cash that you're making off of the difference because the market's so high. You'll rent a space that's better than that. Now granted, it's probably not going to be perfect because you're renting it. You have control over everything. But your options are a place that's really bad or place that's better than that for the next year and a half, right? So sell that place. Rent something for a year and a half or however long it's going to take while your new house is being built. Right. Because they're building a house. Right. It was like one of those. Similar to what you're saying. And then go into the new place.

Yeah.

And they were just. And they just like this. You could hear. I was like, just on a phone call, you could hear the light bulb go off. Right. And it's like. So you really do have to think through the options of stuff. And it's not always like the one, like the only thing you can think of. That's why it's nice to talk to other people and just get other points of view. I'm like, what the options are.

Yeah. Like, maybe that lady could they. That couple could sell. You know, they probably have a ton of. I think they built that house. It's probably pure equity. Yeah. You have to disclose, but you don't have to necessarily fix it. You could just disclose. Go live in a rental house for a couple of years and then don't feel rushed to build your house. You just gave me an idea for her. Yeah. It's good. We get stuck.

Right.

In our timeline. We think our life is going to have. And then, you know, we can't think of other options. So I get it. It's hard. Like, everybody kind of has fear of the unknown. So do I. You know.

Things can get better, things can change, but you sometimes got to be the change maker to say, you know, I'm taking a step away from this thing. That's threatening. I say in my book, and it's kind of dramatic, but, like, if your house burned down, would you try to still live there in a pile of ash? No, of course you wouldn't. But it's like we're doing that.

It's like the equivalent. Yeah.

So if your house is really bad, and I know you rate this on your thing, or your health is really messed up, like, it's. You got to almost think about this. This house is gone to me.

So, yeah, that's a happy note.

I know. I wish we didn't wrap up on this, but hopefully, really what it is is, like, if you're working with someone like Bridget or me on my side or whoever else you're working with. We've seen so many of these. Right. Like, the thing for you is that you're you. Right. And you haven't talked to thousands of other people necessarily are going through what you're doing. We have in our own ways and have seen what other people have done and can probably give you some ideas on Stuff just because we've seen what other people have got. Right. And we've just seen it. So, you know, it's this, your situations. Like I say a lot with rental contracts, this and that, like, oh, I'm under contract. I can't do anything. Sure you can. Contracts are meant to be broken. There's ways to get out of contracts. Happens all the time. Right? Like, don't. Don't think that we're so locked into whatever the initial thought process is. Like, there's options all the time. There's always stuff that you can do. It might not be what you thought of, and it might not be the hundred percent solution, but there's ways to navigate stuff. And I think talking to people like Bridget, me, and whoever else can kind of help you at least maybe trigger some ideas of your.

Yeah, and we do talk to that. You know, like you said, some doctors want to talk to you. You know, our people are coming to us in various stages, and we're happy to talk to you. And we're just going to be honest if we, you know, we think you're wasting your money on certain protocols because you're still in the house. Like, you know, yeah, I'm in this. I'm so passionately in it to fix that person's health. I will tell them, like, whatever needs to be said. That's what they hired me for. Right. Like, I have a divorce. Coach tell me some stuff to be really harsh, you know, like, look, this is what you need to do again, because he's seen it thousands of times. Right. I mean, he's super great guy and all that stuff, but, yeah, it's like we can, like, love and support you and also tell you an inconvenient truth. So, yeah, we are willing, if you want to sign up for that, give us a call.

Once I have an armchair therapy session. You're more than welcome. All right, so let's wrap this up. So a couple of things we referenced that I meant to reference at the top, and I forgot your book. What's the name of your book? Give the quick little rundown on your book.

Oh, it's called the Ultimate Toxic Mold Recovery guide. Take back your home health and life. It's on Amazon in three forms. And, yeah, it's kind of like just covering all of it. The, you know, the home side, the emotional side, the health restoration side, which is really, you know, my specialty.

Yeah. So I think it's a great resource to have, and you can, you know, flip to different chapters to look different things up. As you go through the process.

Yeah, the chapters are broken out in a pretty easy way, so you could kind of like. You can almost use it like a. Like an index of different things to pop into here and out, too. So that part's cool. And then if people want to work with you, how does that happen?

So my main site is my name, bridgetdanner.com and then we have a shop site, and you can just put in your cart. You can order, like, a mold test and we review it with you. Or again, you have old tests that you want to bring to us. We can review those. I'm mentioning that because the lab testing is usually the most popular. You can also just opt to just talk to us. But no one does that. Everybody usually. No. No one does that. Either they have old labs that they want us to talk about and review, or they order a new lab. That's basically. And then we have a. A whole array of, like, detox and gut supplements on there. So it's kind of a nice blend of, like, professional support. And there's some things you can, like, pick and choose yourself from our shop.

Awesome. Well, that's great. Anything that you want to leave people with, where we wrap it up?

No, this is just, like, a great combo. So I'll definitely share the interview. You know, I feel like we started a little more clinical, but then we really just kind of talked, like, talk shop, which I think is super interesting for people. I hope so. I'd love to hear the feedback.

Yeah, me too. I like doing them like this when it's not all structured, and then you end up having, like, real conversations and, like, war stories and comparing, like, all that stuff that's not so stuffy, and you can just, like, really get into, like, examples and stuff like that. So, yeah, this is cool. Well, thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Brian.

All right, bye.

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