115: Mycotoxin Blood Testing w/ Dr. Andrew Campbell

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey, guys, before we get started on.

This episode, just wanted to give you.

A little summary of what you're about to be hearing. So this is a conversation I had with Dr. Andrew Campbell a little while ago. I thought it was a really interesting conversation. It was actually different than a lot of the other talks that we've had with other medical practitioners. And so the opinions might be a little different than maybe what you've heard, but I do think it's super important to sort of hear other people's takes on things, because, honestly, a lot of this stuff is still pretty new, and a lot of people are still learning about it, and the medical modalities and the treatments and the diagnoses there, they're ever evolving and changing. So Dr. Campbell has a really long history in working in mold and mycotoxins, but I. I will tell you that some of the opinions that he has is different than some of the other.

People that we've had on. Right.

So just want to give you a heads up. Obviously, I'm not a doctor.

Right.

So, you know, what I'm trying to do is bring people on that can provide you guys some information that if you feel like it resonates with you and you want to research it some more, you can absolutely do that.

Right.

And so that was this conversation. It was pretty interesting. It definitely got me to start thinking about things a little differently. And do I know all the answers?

Of course not. Right.

But it's important to see different sides of this, you know, this. This whole sphere that we're looking at, because we are in an era of.

Something that is still very new.

So I hope you guys enjoy it. If you take something from it, that's great, but, you know, just make sure that we listen with an open mind to everything that. That I talk about that, you know, my guests talk about as they come on here. And the purpose of all this is to try to. Try to empower you guys to get on the path that you need to get for healing. So, without further ado, here we go.

Hey, everyone.

What's going on? Really, really excited for today. I've been talking about this person for a while with some people that I.

Know who are actually working with him on treatment, on a treatment plan.

And they were like, hey, Brian, you need to talk to this guy.

You need to get him on your show.

He's doing some really kind of cutting.

Edge, interesting stuff that not a lot of other people are really talking about.

And it's been super helpful. I was like, oh, yeah, I should.

Probably get that person on the show.

So, anyways, we have him here. This is Dr. Andrew Campbell. Dr. Campbell, thanks for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

Really appreciate it.

Yeah, of course. So let's just kind of start with an intro.

You want to give a little background on who you are and why people should listen to you.

Just a little background.

I was educated in Switzerland. I finished high school, prep school, and I was a week before my 14th birthday. And then I went to college in the U.S. finished at college in three years and went to medical school and then started my training in cardiothoracic surgery. But after a while, that didn't. I didn't like it as much. So I went to immunology and toxicology. So I started seeing a lot of patients in Houston, where I was based, who had silicone breast implants. And they published about 25 studies on what happens with that and so on and so forth. And part of the problem was that people, women, would get their implants removed and thinking that that would make them feel well again. It didn't really. Just they improved about 10, 20%. So I found this doctor and PhD doctor in Montreal, Canada, who examines failed implanted devices, knee implants, hip implants, breast implants. And I said, why do women not get better? He says, well, because the implants are full of mold. I said, what do you mean? How do they get in there? He says, during the manufacturing process. And anyway, so we wrote a couple of studies on that, and then I had to go testify at National Institutes of Health. And they removed the implants from the marketplace until they showed they were a little better and more carefully made. And so I treated these women with. For these moles. They got better? Absolutely. Well, it was fantastic. And then I had people coming to see me. They said, you know, I have mold inside my house. Can you help me? Because you helped my mom, my sister, my grandmother, my neighbor, my girlfriend. Can you help me get red? So I said, okay. I started looking at that. This is 32 years ago. So I started treating patients. And I had a good friend who owned a laboratory out in California, and so he developed a Test to test for mold is kind of like the gun. Mycotoxins are the bullet. They're the ones that really make you really sick.

Same analogy that I use all the time.

It's so funny.

Like imagine you're sitting with a gun.

It doesn't mean you should. It's like, Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

Exactly. So I started seeing a lot, a lot of patients and using the antibody test to mycotoxins. And I'm an evidence based doctor, so you've got to show me evidence that something is valid, etc. So I started using that test and then after about 10, 12 years.

The person that ran the lab retired. Poof, the test was gone. Well, it was replaced by these urine tests. But the urine tests, unfortunately, when a lot of doctors that I knew were doing it started using urine instead of the blood test. Turns out they're really not accurate because they'd have a patient who was really, really sick and the urine was fine. Or the.

Can we pause real quick on that? So were people using. So first off, when you say antibody.

Test, just explain this a little more for people.

So we're actually talking.

This is a blood draw. This is what we're doing for these tests. Is that what you're saying it is?

Antibodies are what your body builds to fight things off. So there's two types of antibodies. There's antibodies to live things, viruses, bacteria, parasites, etc. Those are alive. They have cell walls. Then there's toxicology. Take mercury as a toxin, pesticides, mycotoxins, these are not alive. They're molecules. Mercury is not alive. The difference is that if you have an antibody to a toxin, it means it's in your body right now. You're right now fighting it currently. The other part is that the urine test, test for metabolites of mycotoxins. So say tomorrow at lunch you have some asparagus. Well, the rest of that day the urine is going to smell of asparagus because it's a metabolite. Same thing with this. But the asparagus isn't causing you any damage. The other thing is almost all the urine, mycotoxins come from very small amounts that are contained in food. For instance, milk, cow's milk, all cow's milk contains some little bit of microtoxins. 91% cow's milk contains at least one to four mycotoxins. So if you had a bowl of cereal or yogurt, or ate some cheese or something, you have a tiny little bit of this which you're going to excrete through the urine. Whereas the antibody test is very different, it's very precise. So if you have any disorder or disease, your body's going to make these antibodies and it can be tested in blood. For example, at my micro lab, we're doing studies with Washington University School of Medicine and we're doing studies with the university in Finland, we're doing university studies because it's a very precise test. Urine test. No one's ever done any, no medical school would ever do a study with them.

Was anyone doing. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Was anyone doing these, these blood antibody tests?

Prior to. You mentioned the lab shut down at some point, then the urine test became more prevalent. What were people doing then before that?

No, once there was no urine test until the lab shut down. That's when they started popping up and doing all these tests. And it's not a validated test, whereas the blood test is a validated test. So that's why universities use it.

When you say, I'm sorry, I keep jumping in because I keep getting so many questions that are coming up.

So I apologize. So when you say that it's in.

Your body right now, the antibody is coming, or the antibody shows up in.

The body right now, what's the timeframe on?

Like, what does right now mean?

Does that mean within the last, like day or two?

Does it mean within the last, however long?

Like, like what is, how is that.

Relation actually tied in?

Say you live in a moldy place and you found out it was moldy and then you left.

The antibodies indicate that you're not well. So in other words, as long if you leave the place and you're fine, you don't need anything, you don't need any tests because you're fine. But if you're not fine, you need the antibody test. Why? For example, you could be affected if the antibody test for mycotoxins is positive. Means today, right now, you are in an environment that's been affected. The other possibility is that you have been colonized. Say you live in a moldy place three, five, eight years ago. Well, and then you have symptoms. Let's take a symptom like chronic sinus problems and headaches and things like that. Memory, short term memory loss, brain fog, chronic fatigue, joints ache, etc. Well, Dr. Ponicow, chairman of the department of ear, nose and throat surgery at the Mayo Clinic, did A study on 210 chronic sinus people who were really having problems. He took them to the operating room, put them under anesthesia and dug out from their sinuses as deep as he could go all the crud out and send it to the lab and said, I want to identify what you found in these 210 patients. 96%.

Had moles.

We know that these people were colonized by molds and these molds produce mycotoxins. The first place mycotoxins go is the brain. They cause brain fog, fatigue, sleep disturbance, headaches, aches and pains, et cetera. As I mentioned, short term memory loss. So studies started coming out about mycotoxins. Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston found that probably 60% of what autism is caused by mycotoxins. I can verify that myself because I've treated a lot of children, autistic children, and they get better by treating the mycotoxins. The other part is studies have shown that for als, which is amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, everybody knows that is Lou Gehrig's disease and lou Gehrig's disease, 5 to 10% are caused by genetics. The other 90% caused by molds, mycotoxins.

Wow.

And Alzheimer's. Now 28% is caused by mycotoxins. They found 28% in brains at autopsy of patients who died from Alzheimer's. 28% of those.

Had mycotoxins in the brain. The number one country in the world for dementia is Finland. They have more dementia than any other countries. We are now doing a study with Finland on mycotoxins and the dementia.

Because Finnish houses being so far north, they're covered with snow so much, and then the snow melts and water intrusion and all that.

Yeah, man.

Some of these percentages and stats are crazy.

Let me ask you this. So we talked about if you're currently.

In the house, obviously you're being exposed if you have a colonization.

Yeah, we've had other people that said the same thing. That's always the first thing, by the.

Way, that we'll hear. So we're working with somebody.

They either leave the house or remediate it.

The testing in the house comes back good. Like the house is fine at that point, whatever. But there's still symptoms.

So then a lot of times, like, well, this didn't work.

You guys missed something.

It's like, well, let's not go quite that far yet.

Like, the next question is, do you have something in your body? Is it still?

There is so kind of to what.

You were saying, saying about a colonization point.

Let me ask you this other, this other scenario, though. So mycotoxins are fat soluble.

They want to live in fat, you know, fat cells. Obviously, our brain is a lot of fat lipids. So that's where it hangs out. To your point, or is there. Am I. Am I off on this?

No. Mycotoxins affect mitochondria. Mitochondria is one of the principal cell inter in your cells. It's the engine of your cell. And mycotoxins damage mitochondria. And so you have cell death. They're not stored anywhere in the body. They kill cells. They cause what in medicine is called cell apoptosis, which means cell death.

Including in the brain. So, no, they don't get stored in fat because as soon as they get in the fat cell, they hit the mitochondria and that cell dies. They go to the next one, you know. So, no, they're not stored. That's a total misconception. That's very. That's been known since the 80s, 1980s.

Interesting.

So this. So now I'm thinking through this because.

That'S changing everything that I've kind of known to this point. So let me talk through where I'm going.

So if we're not storing them at.

All.

Basically, it means they're kind of.

They will, they will.

But it sounds like they're. The way that you're describing.

They're bouncing around from cell to cell to cell.

So are they looking for somewhere to be or do they just kind of. Whatever they hit on the way out the back end, like so.

Yeah.

Let me explain it to you. Your hair. My hair is about 100 microns thick. Mold spores that carry the microtoxins are 2 to 3 microns.

So they go anywhere they want. They go get on your skin. You breathe them in through your mouth, through your nose. They go to your lungs and they hit the brain. Mycotoxins are 0.1 microns. They're the size of COVID virus. So what do you think? Covid viruses get stored in fat cells?

Of course not.

They go around damaging cells. They're not stored. They're just ubiquitous there. They go everywhere because they get in the bloodstream, they circulate. But there are certain parts that we know that are affected more than others. The first place is the brain.

Second place, what's the reason for that?

Because it's easy to cross the blood brain. It's easy for mycotoxins to destroy and get into the brain. For example, there's a mycotoxin known as T2 toxin, and that was weaponized because of the Effect on the brain. So they used it in Cambodia 50 years ago, right after the Vietnam era.

We know very much and very careful studies have been done on that. My micro lab tests for 12 different mycotoxins because those are the ones that exist.

That affect people. There's a lot of mycotoxins that affect plants and trees and livestock, et cetera, et cetera. But These are the 12 that affect human beings.

So there's only 12 mycotoxins that actually affect people? Correct.

12 to 15. But three are very rare, 12 are very common.

What are the three that are rare? Just out of curiosity, I won't make you name all 12. What are the three that are rare?

The other three are Citronin and.

It'S a mycotoxin from Fusarium mold that's kind of rare. Fusarin usually makes. And a very important point to make here. One mold does not make one mycotoxin. One mold makes several microtoxins, and one microtoxin can come from several different molds. A lot of people think it's a one to one. It is not. So my micro lab is going to add these other three just to make it very complete and in the next few months. And so it's going to be 15 mycotoxins that they're going to test for. Why? Because my micro lab gets serum from Africa, India, New Zealand, Cambodia, Australia, and then of course all over the United States and Canada, Latin America, Europe, et cetera. So those, the European, United States, Canada, etc. Have more common these kind of molds. But when you get into places like rural China and rural Africa, you're going to find these other rarer mycotoxins.

Interesting.

What, so you mentioned a serum.

So what do you mean by that? Like what's, what's the. How does. You're getting things from different places or like, so maybe walk through what that means.

Serum. If you take a tube of blood and let it sit for an hour, the bottom looks like red wine, dark red wine, and top looks like apple juice. That top is serum. It's what cells float around and in your blood. Serum carries antibodies. All autoimmune tests are done with antibodies. Rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis. And by the way, according to.

Studies done at Rutgers University, 60% of Ms. Is caused by mycotoxins. And I've treated many patients with Ms. And they're fine now, they don't have any Ms. But.

These mycotoxins as.

The body's immune system Will respond by producing an antibody to try to fight it off. But it's very hard to fight off a toxin. Let's replace it with mercury. To get rid of mercury once it's in your system takes sometimes years. Mycotoxins with treatment and I've published all these in medical journals, peer reviewed medical journals, have chapters in medical books. It takes me about six to eight months to get a patient well.

And that's to remove the mycotoxins from the body.

The first rule in toxicology is get the patient away from the toxin or the toxin away from the patient. Otherwise the patient no treatment will work. Then you start treatment. By the way, I don't use binders, which is all over the Internet. Binders have been tested in laboratories with chickens, piglets, sheep, rats, mice. It's never been tried in humans. I can't give a patient something that's never been tested in humans. Just like you shouldn't use a vaccine that hasn't been tested in humans.

I've been doing this for 32 years, so I know what works and what doesn't. But the more important part is that this has been published and shown because any publication has to go through a peer review process that's very strict.

Can you give a top line of.

What the main pillars of your treatment plan look like? You don't have to get. Obviously everybody's probably a little different, I would imagine, but just the highlights.

Sure. Last week.

On Tuesday of last week, I gave a webinar on treatment. Once the person has either remediated the house or moved, moved away from the house, etc. What you do then is one fake part of the treatment is using an antifungal because these mold spores carry the mycotoxins. By killing the mold spores, there's no more mycotoxins. So that I use itraconazole in my patients, which is a prescription. I also give them for their brain. A supplement known as.

Well, several supplements that help the brain. One is phosphatidylserine, the other one is I use melatonin. Now everybody thinks melatonin is for sleep. Yes, it does help sleep. But there were studies done at University of Texas San Antonio that showed that melatonin is an excellent neuroprotector. Protects your brain and the nerve cells and the other cells in the brain. The third thing that helps the brain is a very strong antioxidant such as vitamin C.

Dr. Linus Pauling won two Nobel prizes for his work on vitamin C. For first few people that's run it twice and he's shown how strong vitamin C is as an antioxidant.

The other thing is, if you're over.

50.

Your body reacts to mycotoxins by.

Creating a lot of inflammation. And so you need something to help get blood to your brain, to bring more oxygen, to bring more nutrients to the brain. The brain has 100 billion cells. Each one of those cells needs nutrients and oxygen. So there's 400 miles of blood vessels in your brain.

Wow.

Yeah.

13 gallons of blood flow through there per hour.

So you can imagine the brain really is a delicate organ. It's the only one completely surrounded by bone for that purpose. And you give nitric oxide, which is N1,01.

Not zero, I'm sorry, O1 for oxygen, nitric oxide, N1, O1. And that dilates the blood vessels leading to the brain and allows the brain to have more oxygen and more nutrients.

I like to give patients vitamin D3 because vitamin D3 is an essential part.

Of the immune system.

The other thing is.

You'Ve got to help your microbiomes. 80, 70, 80% of your immune system is in your gut. And a lot of these mycotoxins cause the loss of that intestinal barrier. What is what the public calls leaky gut. Yep. So people try to deal with the leaky gut part. No, get rid of the mycotoxins and the leaky gut goes away. So you don't treat. You, you find and treat the cause, not the result.

So having said that, Dr. Simon Cutting in the Reading University in London did studies on the common.

Probiotics that help form a healthy microbiome. And the two most common ones, Lactobacilli and bifidobacterium, that you find on every shelf in vitamin shops, et cetera, drugstores. Well, 80, more than 90% of these lactobacilli, bifidobacterium, which are the most common probiotics, are destroyed in this in the stomach by stomach acid. Less than 90% get through. He called it dead bacteria therapy.

That's the British for you.

So what he did find is that spore forming bacilli get all the way through. So there's a supplement that I use that is a spore for actually five spore forming bacilli in a, in a capsule. And I take it every day personally because 80% of the immune system being in the gut, I want my gut to be fabulous.

The megaspore.

Yes, correct. Megasporebiotic. And so, for example, everybody, there's a, everybody has proteins Proteins are what help build our body and is the most important thing we can help our body with proteins is the house. They're made by bricks called amino acids. Well, there's amino acids that we make ourselves in our body and then there's what are called a few.

Essential amino acids. Our body doesn't make them. We have to get them from. One is tryptophan. You get it from red meat and eggs, for example, and chocolate.

I mean cocoa, not Hershey's.

So when you have a normal gut, l, tryptophan helps produce what is called serotonin. Serotonin is your happy.

You know, that's what psychiatrists give to depressed people. Prozac, things like wellbutin. Those are these substances that are derived from tryptophan, an amino, an essential amino acid resulting in serotonin. And then with a normal microbiome, serotonin becomes melatonin. So people are happy and they sleep well. Well, when the gut is disrupted by microtoxins.

You get depressed, you have anxiety and you don't sleep well. So you don't give it. By giving it more serotonin, more melatonin and more tryptophan, you go and get rid of the mycotoxins. So the treatment is find the cause, remove the cause, and treat the damage.

This is what I teach before COVID This is what I lectured at Harvard School of Medicine and at Oxford University in the UK in England. I taught these. And it was only faculty. It wasn't other students or anything because summertime is when students are gone. So this, this is always during the summer. And, and I showed them. Well, they, they understood the concept right away, but yet to show them specifically how to do that.

So.

Do you have a thought on.

Why more doctors are not using antibody blood testing as compared to like the urine tests for mycotoxins.

The urine people spend a lot of money on marketing. They do a great job at marketing. They have courses that they give to promote their product. But they can do that because it's an unvalidated test, a validated test. You cannot market like that.

The federal government would be on you right away and tell you, what are you doing? You're not allowed to do that. You validate test. I can't give discounts just for this or that purpose.

To promote because then it would be considered kickback.

For the people that listen to your show. We're going to give a 30% discount.

It would be against the rules and the laws. Yeah, that big difference. Or come come to a Course. Listen to this course and I'll give you a coupon for half off. Can't do that.

Another question I wrote down. So you were. When you're talking through the kind of your flow through stuff you said for people over 50, inflammation is created. Doesn't that happen for everyone though? To some extent. It's not just people over 50, is it?

No. I see patients from one year, one year old on.

Children. The major points are misbehavior, learning difficulties, behavioral problems, add, ADHD and then.

Autism, but also Asperger's syndrome, things of that nature. Because little children don't know how to express themselves. In adolescents and teenagers they just can't learn. They have huge problems learning anything at school, learning anything new. They're also very moody and they're not well then in young adults on to older in your 60s and 70s, more or less, it's the same symptoms. I have a 14 page questionnaire that I use in all my patients and I encourage doctors, if they want a copy, I'll be happy to send it to them. I've developed this 30 years ago, 30 some odd years ago. Helps focus on what is the, what is the issue. For example, I get a lot of patients who were, who were tested for and turned out positive for Lyme and they're still not well after two, three, four or five years of treatment.

I test them for blood, mycotoxin antibodies, they light up and then the, you know, then these are sometimes young people and the parents start calling me Dr. House.

Yeah, I mean I've definitely the, the Lyme.

I mean honestly, not just Lyme. It's like there's so many different.

That's what I'm looking for, just different illnesses and things that people are dealing with. Where mold plays a factor in what's going on. Autoimmune issues, Lyme, you know, I'm sure there's more you could fill and I'm going off top of my head but you mentioned with kids like pans, pandas obviously. And like some of those things.

When.

You'Re toxins can also do and I see this commonly is they alter hormones and men, they lower testosterone way down so you're almost sterile. In women they flip flop the estrogen and progesterone production of the body. They cause a lot of autoimmune thyroiditis. The other issue about mycotoxins is they trigger autoimmune diseases. Rheumatoid arthritis, et cetera. There's over 100 autoimmune diseases.

Yeah.

Dr. Schoenfeld in Israel is like, the world's most famous doctor for autoimmunity.

And he's done some studies which show how all these different things, like mycotoxins, trigger autoimmunity. But the key here is not to treat the autoimmunity, is to treat the mycotoxins. Then the autoimmune problem goes away. So, like, for ms, which is an autoimmune disorder, multiple sclerosis, I've treated many, many young people. I'm sorry, by young. I'm an older guy, so obviously young is anyone from late teens to in their 30s and early 40s.

I'm still young.

I got it.

So, you know, with Dr. Schoenfeld, Yehuda Schoenfeld, I mean, he's brilliant, man. Brilliant. No question. He's known all over the world. And I encourage any doctor or clinician to read his studies because they will help you help your patients. And that's what really a doctor has to do. And as a result, these autoimmune diseases get treated by rheumatologists who focus.

On the autoimmunity.

Instead of focusing on, why did this woman now have Hashimoto's thyroiditis? Why did this develop? Instead of saying, oh, you have antibodies. Here's a prescription.

No, it could very well be from, yeah, they're tired, they're fatigued, et cetera, low thyroid. But could there be another possibility? Yes.

Yeah.

Do you.

You may not have a sense for this.

I'm just curious of, like, how often.

An autoimmune issue is triggered to an environmental issue like this. Do you have an idea of that? You don't have to. I'm just asking out of the blue. Sure.

No, no.

We.

I. Dr. Vujdani and Dr. Pollard at UCLA and I, three of us, published a study on environmental effects on autoimmunity in the journal Autoimmunity a few years back. There's a lot of triggers. For example, you can get autoimmunity from. We talked about Lyme. That's one of the triggers. There's several triggers for autoimmunity. Unfortunately, a lot of doctors don't look at the trigger. They just say, you have an autoimmune disease. Take these pills.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's unfortunate.

So even as you get into, like. Like, beyond, like, you go to your.

General and your general doctor's like, oh, you got this. Take this pill.

Then you go to, like, a specialist.

It's like an autoimmune specialist.

And it's like the same thing.

Like, it's when do you finally get to the person that's trying to dig out the reason that so many things are happening?

I'm sure it's not always tied to one thing.

I'm sure there's other things that go on too. But like, like, at what point do you stop digging? Right.

Like, have we decided that the environmental.

Piece is the core root of everything? Or is there something beyond that potentially? Or. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

Studies done at Harvard show they studied several communities throughout the United States for moisture and water intrusion. And they found that over 58% had that. All kinds of communities, small, medium sized, larger. So they didn't discriminate. You know, they weren't all in Louisiana where there's, there's another hurricane every. No, they went all over.

And they found this was, you know, they're very careful about their studies. And so there's a lot of this that are going on. I have a friend of mine at the University of Kansas.

And he did, he's a pediatrician and he was seeing all these kids come in on the weekends with a crisis, asthma crisis, which is terrible, and they're on maximum dose of everything they can take. So he got the chairman of his department to agree that a nurse can go with him to the home of these particular kids. And in every single one, there was mold found.

I mean, I'll tell you this just from personal experience. Anytime that any doctor, practitioner, health coach, whoever, whoever's like, put their finger on.

The fact that there's a mold issue in their patient or whatever they're working.

With, if that person has come to.

Us and we've gotten referred to us, this isn't even an exaggeration. Every single time, like 100% of the time there are problems in their house.

I mean, it's, there's not. There literally has not been one in.

All the years that we've been doing this, we're like, oh, there's no mold problem here. I don't know. Literally has never ever happened.

Like, like, if your doctors or your.

Health coach or whoever you're working with.

Is telling you, like, yes, that this is happening, it's happening, right? It's happening.

That's right. And you know, I've treated patients from all walks of life. This molds and mycotoxins are an equal opportunity disorder. I mean, I have patients with very, very limited economic means. And I have treated people whose clothes you wear with their logo sometimes and who, who you've watched on TV programs and in movies.

Especially one recent movie.

That'S very popular, we've done the same.

Yeah, I'm sure you have. The only one I can mention, because it's public knowledge, it was published in newspapers, was Ed McMahon of the Johnny Carson Show. He. He flew out to see me, and I treated him. He would. His. He had a very nice home, obviously.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because it's not about the same thing.

I've been in some very, very famous people's homes, a lot of people know. And then you go in homes of, you know, regular. Regular old person that doesn't live in, you know, lives in a regular neighborhood. Right.

And the problem is.

And it's.

To your point, like, I joke around.

We have. We both have analogies. I'm hearing your analogies while you're talking. I have a lot of my own.

But I always talk about water not being that smart.

Air is not as smart as you think it is. Mold isn't as smart as you think it is.

Like, the stuff isn't.

It's not, like, purposefully targeting somebody. You know what I mean?

Like, if there's an issue there, mold's like a seed.

It's gonna grow. It's just what it's gonna do.

It doesn't care if you're in one.

Room versus the other room. The air in your house is going to move it. The air doesn't stop at one door because this is my room, and then go to another room.

So that the thought that, well, we're going to stay in a different room.

Because the mole problem is in here. Your house isn't that smart. It's not. It's going to follow you around. Right.

And it's kind of what you're saying, too. And I think sometimes we as people.

Try to rationalize things in certain ways, and it's just how we, like, kind of cope with stuff and understand things. And in doing so, it's almost like we personify things that shouldn't be personified. Right. Like, oh, this.

This mold is like a. It's, you know, it's just a living thing.

It's a living thing.

Well, there's a lot of different types of living things. There's living things like us that have.

Brains that think and actually make, you know, critical decisions. Right. And then there's living things that literally just exist and have no say in what they do or why they do it. And.

And that's kind of what it is. Right. And so we have to differentiate that in our minds and then understand like.

How we think through this process.

Process and to sometimes, like, take a step back and just look at it for what it is and try not.

To get so into it.

I don't know if you see this.

I'm going to tell you something. I see. You tell me if I'm. If you see different or think different. So I'll have people that are like.

I have this one particular mycotoxin.

I have this one particular thing. We're looking for this one mold type.

And they're like on this hunt for this one mold.

Guys, you're doing this. This is not the thought process. The thought process isn't the one. The one we'll type, right?

Because if there's one, there's going to be other ones. And also, whatever test you did is just whatever you happen to catch at that period of time, right? Like you're talking urine.

We were talking urine earlier.

A lot of times people will pee.

And nothing will come out, even though they're loaded with mycotoxins. Other times they'll pee and a bunch of stuff will come out. Right. It doesn't matter.

That doesn't mean that's the only thing that's impact, right.

And.

But it'll be, oh, we have ultra.

Toxin Ace, or we have trichophysine. So we need to find stacks. Stachyboxers is where it's at. That's the one. And we go through the house and.

We find 20 different sources of all kinds of problems.

And there's plutonium and there's different Aspergillus.

Species, and there's even toxins we're finding in whatever. But we didn't find that one thing. And it's like, well, we didn't.

We didn't do our. We didn't.

We're missing it.

We're. It's. It's still here.

It.

The concept is water, and this is.

Kind of where it's getting to, right?

So water creates a mold issue.

Molds. And you said it earlier, too.

Different molds create different toxins.

Some create multiples. Some other toxins come from the.

Right.

It's not all like one to one linear.

But mold or water creates a mold issue.

Mold happens a thing.

So, like, I'll just talk from my.

Point of view right now.

Going through a home, it's very similar to how people.

How the people who know what they're doing look at the body, right? You're trying to understand source. You're trying to understand how source is impacting other spaces and not just Relying on. Well, I did an air sample, so that's what it is, right? Like, where did it come from? What are you going to do?

And the thing is though, when you look around, like if there's, you know.

For people on video, if there's mold in this wall behind me that I'm pointing at and I do a cavity test in this thing and I find that there's a source of a mold problem back there, three feet over the other direction, there might be another type of mold that maybe grew because the humidity from this water source penetrated over a little further to the left. And maybe there's another type of mold.

Growing over there that I didn't pick.

Up in this direct sample, but we.

Sampled here because this is where we.

Feel like the kind of the core of the water issue sort of settled, right.

So you go to the spot that it looks the worst and then the goal is to say there is a.

Problem here that needs to be remediated. Like that's the goal, right?

It's not to say, well, this one species is here and then this one.

Species is over here, right?

Like, and so that's. You just sort of kind of reminded.

Me of this tangent I go on sometimes with.

The goal is to understand that there.

Is an issue that creates the problem and to get to that issue and to remove that issue.

And at some point, if we try to get so data heavy, at some.

Point it's too much. At some point we just have to understand a mold issue is a mold issue.

And this is kind of where I.

Was going to go ask you where I was going with this. If.

Exclude if you had a previous.

Exposure to something and you created almost like an autoimmune response to it, like when you were younger or something and your body specifically acts because it was sort of trained in that way.

But let's kind of take that out of the equation and let's just say.

That somebody is exposed to Aspergillus, Glados Forum Stacky Botchers Three different types of mold types.

Is the body toxins out, toxins not.

Included, just the mold types.

Is the body going to see those as like, oh, this is that kind of mold.

And so I'm going to do X versus this is that kind of mold. And I'm going to do why is that how the body looks at them?

Very, very good question. So when you produce an antibody, the body looks at these at molds are alive, they have cell walls and they're multicellular. All the ones that you mentioned, they're all multicellular. There are molds that are single cellular. Those are yeasts, like Candida.

I see all the time. Patients call me and they're taking nystatin. Nystatin works great for single cell. Doesn't do it. It doesn't have any effect on multicellular molds. So anyway, on multicellular molds, your body recognizes the mold. Yes. And will fight it off. It's an alive. It's a living thing. On the mycotoxins, which are not living. Okay. Your body recognizes each mycotoxin because with the body, with the immune system, and everybody's immune system is unique and different. Okay. The immune system will make a specific antibody from the molecule of. Of that mycotoxin. It's like a key and a lock. So the antibody to, say, stachybotrys toxin.

Is not going to affect.

Any other one because it's directly off the molecule. It's like my key. Front door will not open. Your front door.

Got it.

So what about.

So what about the actual living mold pieces themselves? So how does the body react to those?

By getting. It's. It's. The body will fight off any pathogen. There's four pathogens, as I mentioned before. There's bacteria, viruses, parasites, and moles.

There's nuisance molds that cause.

Athlete'S foot and skin things, etc. Those are nuisance. Then there's pulmonary aspergillosis, which can land you into the icu. Okay. Because it's in your lungs and you can't breathe. You have chest tightness, you have chronic cough, etc. And I have patients with that. But when it's mycotoxins, so your body fights that. And there are medications for all four of those. There's antibiotics.

Does your body create antibodies to that? I'm sorry?

Does it create antibodies in the same.

Way they create antibodies? Yes.

Is it a single antibody to the.

Single mold type the same way that it does with the mycotoxin, or do they lump them all as a multicellular mold organism? Right.

So if you had hepatitis A 20 years ago, you have a hepatitis A antibody floating around today, but it's not going to protect you against hepatitis B or C.

It's very specific. And that's why in medicine we test antibodies, because they're highly specific.

So would you have a separate antibody.

For like, Aspergillus versus Penicillium versus Gladysporium?

Absolutely. Versus Tritonium versus Trusarium, etc. But it only says that either today, either recently, or maybe when you were. You were in the summer camp somewhere. You, you were exposed and. And was. Were affected. Okay? It doesn't. So it doesn't specify antibodies to say, a toxin like mercury or mycotoxins, etc are saying right now your immune system is dealing with this. Why? Because when you get treated six months from now, after treatment, you're not going to have any of this in your blood anymore. You won't have antibodies. You got rid of the mercury after six months. Test the blood for antibodies. There are no mercury antibodies, bodies or pesticides or arsenic or whatever because you got rid of it. If you look at your shampoo bottle, you've got 20, 30 chemicals in there. And people shampoo at least once a week, if not more. Okay? Do those chemicals affect you? No.

You're not sick. I shampooed this morning. I'm feeling fine. I don't. Not. Although there's a lot of sweat glands in your, on your scalp. You don't absorb it. Okay? Women put all kinds of chemicals in their hair. You know, colorings and things like that don't affect you, but toxic things do like mercury and mycotoxins. And then once you get rid of them, that's the beauty of it. You can test.

Say that again.

You can test and that's.

Tells you the body burden. How much? It's a quantitative test. How much are you carrying? It's not a yes you have it or no, you don't. The other thing is you mentioned ochratoxin. Ochratoxin. And this is studied this over and over. Ochratoxin is 99.8% bound to albumin, the number one protein in the body. It cannot be excreted in urine.

But it can show up in a blood test.

So as a pass through stool, like, how do you get out of it? What pathway does it take?

So the only way you test accurately for ochratoxin, it's the only one that's very tightly bound to protein, is by a blood test, antibody test. That's very well known in medicine and science.

So why is it when I did.

A urine test, I don't shocks and they come up.

You, you, I mean, you're, you're gonna, you're looking at. Not. The tests for urine are not for mycotoxins, okay? They're for the metabolites. Mycotoxins.

Like I mentioned about asparagus, the blood test is directly on the molecule.

If you want to test a person for any kind of poisoning by mercury, and police know this and forensic doctors know this, you test by blood you don't test urine.

What's the urine test telling me, if anything? When I see that I have ochratoxin, I actually had citronin in mine too, and I had something else and I had mycophenolic acid in mine.

That's a very good question. If you call the urine testing company and ask them to send you studies from medical journals, they'll tell you we don't have any.

So what's the metabolite? What is that? Is that.

Maybe.

Is there an analogy or something to.

Make that easier to kind of understand what we're seeing there?

A metabolite is basically something that the body doesn't need and gets rid of through excretion.

So is the, the body reacts with the mycotoxin, then it creates a metabolite off of that. Is that where the metabolite.

No, because it's too small an amount. It's, it's parts per billion. The body doesn't deal with it, it just gets rid of it. Okay, so I'm, I'm wearing glasses. I'll do this. Okay.

I see some people go like, like this. You don't think there's stuff on the, on their finger, they've touched other things, et cetera, et cetera. We're, we're getting read and excreting things all the time. That's why we have excretion. And urine is one of the things that we, where we get rid of things that we don't want or need. So if you eat, if today, you know, a little later, you have a nice big thick chocolate piece of chocolate cake, guess what's going to come out your urine? Sugar.

What's that?

Sugar.

If you measure glucose in your urine, it's going to be high.

But.

Are you a diabetic?

No.

Right.

Okay.

So if you eat a tomahawk tonight for dinner, okay. And you check your urine, you're going to have more protein in your urine. You just ate out a whole tomahawk. I've never even been able to eat.

A whole tomahawk, but I could barely, I could barely eat a six ounce fillet. I don't know if I can even like comprehend eating it.

All right.

We've been talking for a long time. I haven't even realized how long we've been going.

Well, let's try to wrap up here. Is there maybe one last thing you.

Feel like that would be the thing to take away from the conversation that we're having today that people can walk away with?

I get about five to 10 emails, seven days a week. Imagine in a year how many emails that is and how many have. I've been taking this treatment by this protocol, by this doctor, that order, protocol, by that doctor. I've done it for three years, four years, five years and I'm still sick. What should I do?

Well, obviously if you get the right diagnosis and the right treatment, you're going to get better.

If you don't get the right diagnosis and the right treatment, you're not going to get better whether it's mold and mycotoxins or anything else. Right?

Yep.

So the point I'm trying to make here is don't fit a one size, don't use a one size fits all. Your T shirt is not going to fit me and my shirt is not going to fit you. Everybody's unique, different. You've got to treat each person uniquely. That's why I like, that's one of the reasons so many doctors are now using my micro lab, because it's very specific.

Just like you said. You know, in this corner of this wall, towards this corner, there's such growing and then two feet away there's such other growing and then on the ceiling there's some other thing growing. It's the nature of things.

So do you want to target because people love the term black mold? Well, what about the ones that are green and red and gray and all the other ones? Those are okay because they're different color. They're not black mold. They're all producing mycotoxins.

Yeah, it's just the black mold had.

A good PR agent. That's what it was. Everybody knows who it is now.

Right?

Awesome. Well.

It'S very treatable. People get so depressed, have so much anxiety, feel so bad for so long. It's treatable. I've done this for 30 years. I've helped over. Right now it's getting close to 15,000. It's well over 14,000 patients with problems with molds and mycotoxins. So, you know, read the publications, read the chapters in the, in the textbooks, etc. It's all there. So any doctor wants to get the information, it's not there. Don't watch somebody on the Internet who's giving their opinion.

Learn from the best source of learning. And that source of learning has always been from books.

Or journals or things. But evidence based, not opinion based.

Absolutely. So much easier for opinions to get out these days too. And some people are really good at making the opinion seem like that. They're not just opinions.

So I think That's a good thing.

To end off on.

Listen, everybody.

Anyone who's listening, everyone has gone through this, have most likely seen multiple doctors, have most likely worked with multiple consultants on the environmental side.

And you find somebody and you do.

Your research and you vet them. Right? And that's part of what it is.

So, yeah, there's a lot of cool.

Stuff that we talked about today. Thank you for taking the time to share some of this with us. I appreciate it.

Anytime, anytime. Appreciate it very much. And it was great.

Of course. It was great.

Yeah, it was great meeting you, too. How do people find you? Or do they find you?

How do I.

How do we get into your.

1 of 5 to 10 emails every day?

Just. I'm the medical advisor for my micro lab, so it's my m y mycomyco lab.com.

They can get in touch with me, ask questions. I have consultations with doctors all the time who ask me, how do I interpret these tests? What does it mean? What do I do? How do I help the patient? What treatment do you think is best? I do that all day long.

Awesome.

This test that you're talking about, do.

You need a prescription physician to allow to get this or can somebody just call and get this themselves?

You can get it done from any place in the world. And the test is the lab gets serum from all. The only place it doesn't get it from is North Korea.

But otherwise we get it from all over the world.

So it's not an issue.

Got it.

People can get it, doctors can get it, dietitians can get it, naturopaths can get it, chiropractors can do it, doctors of osteopathy, medical Doctors like myself, etc. Anyone can.

Awesome.

Well, it's great. We'll link to the site here in the show note piece of everything.

But thanks again, Dr. Campbell. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Brian. I appreciate you.

All right, bye bye.

Bye bye.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment and subscribe and give a rating. Wherever you get your podcasts, it'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.

It.