127: Mold Toxicity Ignorance in the Mainstream Medical Community w/ Matt Kelly

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey, everyone, what's going on? Got another episode today. I'm really excited for you to talk to my guest today. His name is Matt. Spoiler alert. And his full name is Matt Kelly. I was going to let him introduce yourself, but here I go. Full name, Matt Kelly. So Matt is actually the owner of pharmacy.com, i got in touch with him through some chit chatting on the Instagram behind the scenes, and turns out he has a very interesting but also super kind of relatable common story about how he got into the world of becoming a detox specialist and being a functional health practitioner. And I just thought it would be really good for some people to hear it because if nothing else, and if the drum doesn't keep getting beaten, that it's not always some dramatic, crazy thing that goes on. This happens to a lot of people. There's a whole bunch of stories out there. You're not all alone in doing this. And if you could get a little inspiration, kick in the butt maybe, if you're not sure and you're whatever, then hopefully this can do that. And if it could just also even show you some hope, hopefully this conversation can do that as well because there's some of that there at the end of the tunnel, too. So with all that said, Matt Kelly.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. I can almost hear the clapping.

Hold on.

Oh, thank. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Well, my journey started with my own health issues, so I had become a detoxification specialist because I had severe digestive issues, gut issues that I went through our system. And for 15 years, I learned the hard way that you're not always going to get the help you need in our medical system. So it was then that I went and trained under a naturopath and and became a detoxification specialist and was able to heal my gut in nine months using the power of food and fasting and herbs. And I thought that I was going to be off to the races and I was going to be able to help people. But right when I was ready to ramp up, that's when our son Isaac crashed down. So my wife Amy and I. We have five kids, four girls and one boy and Isaac. And you know what? I still know the date, because you remember these things, right? You remember the dates of big things. And it was January 16, 2018. And Isaac, like all our other kids, went to bed, you know, happy, healthy, normal. And he woke up in the middle of the night, and that's when his life changed. But that means everyone in the family's life changed. And that's when our mold nightmare began, when he walked in in the middle of the night, bent over, holding his stomach, say, crying that his stomach hurt. And that was when we knew something was wrong. And we did not know at the time what we were in for, what this mold journey would look like. But it was mold toxicity that was behind this.

Yeah. So let's backtrack a little.

Let's talk about your gut. So starting with you, then it starts with Isaac. So what type of gut issues did you have? Because I think it's interesting, like, you could kind of figure some things out before they actually happen to become a bigger thing. Right. So this is almost like a precursor or like a something like, hey, something was going on. You had to fix some stuff. What kind of. What kind of issues were you having?

I was having severe digestive issues. Like, without giving TMI here, I don't know what your listeners are willing to hear, but if I was going to leave the house for the big chunk of a day, I had to start prepping two, three days ahead of time. Like, I couldn't be away from the house in case there was an emergency. Okay. I would have abdominal pain and have to empty the garbage can so I could puke if I had to because I would have such distress in my intestines. Now, Isaac also started with this, but it was. It was very different than mine. And mine had been going long before he was born. So I don't know. I grew up in a moldy home, too, Brian. Like, we had. And the basement floor would just grow white fur. You know, we thought, oh, look at that. The basement. There was no sump pump when it rained. The foundation was cracked. And it was my job to go down and scoop water off the floor into the. Into the basket where it would pump out the window. Like, I grew up, and it was over 100-year-old home, severe water problems. So I imagine that was playing. Playing a part in me as well. But then with Isaac, he had. We lived in this beautiful farmhouse, is only about 25 years old, but it had the original wood windows. And in between the two panes in his room was molding. So, you know, the gasket was gone. It was molding inside. And I saw it.

And you say molding just so we're clear, not like some sort of decorative thing. There was actual mold.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The window.

Yeah. All around the edge there was like green black speckles. You know, mold was growing in between there. And I saw it, I knew it needed replaced, but of course they don't want to spend the money right away. So I was like, I'll do that sometime. I had no idea of the toxicity of mold, so I thought, being smart, I would put masking tape around it. Brian. I said, I'll just put tape here and prevent any problems, you know. And also the mold was growing on the inside of the masking tape inside his room. And I was like, huh, this mold is a crazy thing. But I had no idea. And when that night hit and he came into our room crying, we thought appendix, you know, he's holding his side, he's bent over, and it, it turned into this journey that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. And through this journey, I learned three things that are. Are good to warn people about. One, mold's toxic. You know, I didn't know when it started. And that's why I've gone down this rabbit hole to no end. And every day I learned something new. Mold is toxic. Two, we learn that the medical system has no idea, by and large, how toxic mold is. And in our case, no idea how to test for it or even to consider it. And three, no home is safe. Even if it doesn't look like you have a mold problem, it doesn't mean it's not hidden. It could be there feeding the problem.

Yeah, all of that 100 true, obviously. What happened? He comes in. Did you guys go to the er? Like, what did you guys do?

Well, if you've been woken up by a kid crying, you know, it's like a bucket of cold water on your face, right? It's like the ultimate freak out. Yeah, you know what it's like? It's the biggest freak out. So you jump up and you're like, oh, what's wrong, bud? Do you have to puke? You know, like, are you sick to your stomach? And it's like, no, no, we didn't know. So we waited five, ten minutes and then it was. It was clear this wasn't just going away, Right? So we decided we'd take them in. Amy stayed home, of course, because we got the other four girls and I didn't go to either of our local two hospitals. I drove them an hour away to the children's hospital because I thought, if it is his appendix, I want to make sure we've got the best doctors and everything to take a look at them. And we made four ER visits in the first month, three of them within the first week because we went from 0 to 100. Now, what it was, spoiler alert, was a mast cell flare in his intestine. So it just. It was just like a knife going in, like the size of a silver dollar. Like one spot on this, on this, on his right side. And it was just like he was being stabbed, he said. So we went in, they do a blood test, a urine test. They tried to look at his appendix with ultrasound. Didn't see it. You know, we're there six or seven hours. They said, we can't see a problem. You just go home. So we go home and he keeps getting worse. Then about three days later, we go back again, and now he's dizzy and nauseous and adding in more symptoms. And this time they added an X rays and again did blood and urine and didn't see any problem. And this, I think it was the second visit when they said it may not be physical. And I'm. I'm. Oh, I don't like where this is going. Right. Third time we go, they do ultrasound, check his appendix, check his kidneys. Everything looks fine. And they said they can't fix it if there's nothing wrong. They were assuring us nothing was physically wrong, but here this child is. I'm literally carrying them in. Brian, he can't even walk, he's in so much pain. I'm carrying him up and down our stairs like a baby on the front of me. He's 10 years old. I'm carrying him in the front of me, in and out of the hospital. And.

They were alluding. Well, not alluding. They were saying, there's not a physical problem here. So that was very deflating. It was very maddening, frustrating, all those emotions, right? So we go to our regular doctor. She sent us for a CT scan, or someone sent us for a CT scan again. Everything comes back perfect. Just confirming that it's likely in his head, right? Because they can't find anything physically wrong. And our doctor said the ER can't. They will take you serious the next time. They can't ignore you. So we go back one more time. A month later is just about a month. We take him back the fourth time, we're in horrible shape. He doesn't want to eat at home because he's nauseous, he's dizzy, he's got all these mast cell symptoms, but I didn't know at the time, and they had no idea. He's got chest pain, he's got fatigue, heart palpitations, air, hunger. His food, the foods he can eat just keep shrinking. So I take him in the fourth time I lay him on the bed in the er, cover him up with my hoodie because he can't sleep at night. He's in too much pain to sleep. So finally he falls asleep in the er, sit there waiting for our turn. The young doctor walks up, looks at his clipboard, and he says, I'm not your guy. I'm like, pardon me? And he's like, I've looked at his. I've looked at all his tests. He's been here multiple times. I'm not your guy. There's nothing wrong with them. We can't help him. And it just. It was. It was frustrating, it was saddening, it was. It was heartbreaking. It was every emotion at once. Because first of all, he doesn't walk up and say, hey, Mr. Kelly, what's happening with Isaac? Or say, hey, Isaac, I'm Dr. So and so. Can you tell me what you're feeling? It was just complete write off. It was like, I'm not even going to acknowledge you as a person. I'm not going to acknowledge you as a patient. We've already tried. There's nothing wrong. I'm not your guy. And then he leaves and he comes back, you know, 20 minutes later with another doctor. And they asked if they could speak to me. I said, sure. So they took me into another room across the hall, and that's where the doctor explained to me that I need to stop thinking about the body and think about the mind. And that was. That was it. That was our last trip to the ER. They had written us off 100%. This is a not a physical problem. It's all in his head. And I literally get to carry Isaac out in my arms back in and drive him home and tell Amy that we've learned absolutely nothing still. And they're blaming it on being in his mind.

Man, I. Dude, I can't even imagine.

I know. People get this. They get it all the time. They're crazy. They're nuts. It feels worse somehow, thinking of it being directed at a kid for some reason, even though, like, it's the same kind of crap for everybody, but it's just it is.

It is. It's worse when it's your child than if it's you because you're so desperate. A parent's job is to take care of your kids. You'll do anything to take care of your kids. And here I am, literally carrying them in, and we're just being dismissed and you're free to go. And it was just so frustrating. So after that, we got to go. We got to go. We had been going. We got assigned a pediatrician. So you go to the pediatrician and, you know, most the time is spent getting his weight, getting his height, getting his blood pressure. Don't see anything wrong. See you later. Then we go again. Get his height, get his weight, get his blood pressure and palpate a little bit. Don't see anything wrong. And then she. I remember this moment exactly. She. Isaac was sitting in the chair and at least she acknowledged him. And she squatted down beside him and said, so you haven't been to school? And he says no, because he couldn't go to school. He couldn't even walk down the stairs sometimes without me carrying him. And he said no. And she said, does going to school make your tummy hurt? The thought of going to school. And I'm just behind her, just wanting to put my head in my hands. Here we go again. So maybe it's anxiety now. And then we get our appointment with the pediatric gastroenterologist, and I'm like, surely this is all he does is work with kids in the GI tract. Because the biggest. His biggest pain was. Was in his abdomen. Right? But he had all these other symptoms too. But we thought, this is the guy that's going to figure it out. And I remember sitting in that appointment and I had. I got to Talk for about 11 seconds before I was cut off and was told, he knows what's wrong. He pulled a muscle and I was like, that doesn't make sense to me, but I hope you're right. And so we had gone down.

Down this journey of him wondering if that was it. But then we had an upper scope to see if anything was wrong. And everything came back clear. And every time they found nothing wrong, it was more, you know, weight on their side of it's in his head, you know, And I was glad when things were clear, but we still needed to get to the root of the problem. And then we also had a colonoscopy and everything looked fine there. And he explained that it was the healthiest colon he'd ever seen. And he confirmed again, he's just Pulled a muscle in his abdomen. And I remember saying to him, I said, if he pulled a muscle, why is it when he eats certain foods or drinks certain drinks, that it sends him into an extreme pain flare? Because I didn't know anything about histamine or histamine liberators, like Isaac would have some of our grape juice, which had fresh lemon squeezed in it, and literally, like, within two, three minutes, he would be just crying, like, tears just pouring out of his face. And I'm going, what's. What's triggering this? What's going on? Like, I was taking him to the chiropractor, too, because we were going everywhere, Brian. We were trying to figure out what was going on. We were early, so we stopped at the grocery store. We grabbed a salad. We were in the van. We're eating our salad. And the vinegar in the salad dressing just triggered a flare. And he just. He was just destroyed again. And we couldn't even go to the appointment. I had to take him home. And so that day, when the gastroenterologist said, it's a muscle. I'm sure it's a muscle. And I said, why then when he eats or drinks these things, does it trigger immense pain? And while I'm asking this, he won't even look at me. He's just waving his hand dismissively like, you can just stop talking now. And he says, we just hope it heals up together.

God.

And I'm like, I just want to scream, but I'm in a hospital. And you can't tick them off because you're in there with your kid. You know what I'm saying? And I'm just like, this. This makes no sense when you know what triggers the pain and then you say it's on the outside of that. Why. Why can you not connect the dots? And after going through this whole journey, I mean, I see these things from a mile away in people, because this is. I mean, it's easier for me and you because this is what we do, right? But how can you have a senior doctor that's a pediatrician and a gastroenterologist not connect the dots between eating and drinking foods that sends a child into extreme pain? And we were just dismissed at every turn, and it was absolutely horrid. And after that colonoscopy, we stayed in children's Hospital for a few days just so they could continue to test and keep an eye. And Isaac was obviously thin, you know, because mold, mycotoxins destroy the gut. He also had Lyme and CO infections. That destroys the Gut. And the gut goes down with either of those, but you combine them both, that evil hybrid, the evil duo, and it wrecks the gut.

Yeah.

And so he was, of course, thin. His digestion was shot. When he would go to the toilet, I could see what he ate by looking in the toilet. His digestion was shot. I could see the food going in at one end and coming out the other. And I told the doctors that at the hospital, and then they wrote it down wrong. They said, dad says that they see that he sees food in Isaac's vomit. Now, of course you're going to see food in the vomit. It was in his stool. So I'm trying to tell them is his gut's wrecked, his digestion's wrecked. And then they came into his room on rounds one morning, and the five or six doctors all circled around his bed. I'm sitting in the corner chair, you know, and they kept talking about his weight and how thin he was. And I made the mistake of actually speaking up and saying something obvious. And I said, when his stomach. When his digestion isn't working, he has poor absorption. When he has poor absorption, he's not getting the nutrients he needs. I said, if we find what's causing that problem, what's wrecking his gut, then his body will balance out at the weight he should be at. And Brian, I tell you, Brian, it was like a hive mind. They all just turned and stared at me without saying a word, like, why are you talking? And then they all turned back again, and it was a day. Either that day or the next day, I heard out in the hallway one of the doctors saying, I don't know if we can trust dad.

Oh, my God. All right, this is a lot. One question I just have kept asking myself in my head, did you ever go back to any of those people.

And be like, no, not after. No.

Yeah.

No.

I mean, I know nobody wants to. I don't know if I ever would either. But at the same time, it's like, hey, everyone who thought you figured out what was going on, go open a book and find some research studies and actually become.

Spend five minutes on PubMed, type in mycotoxin. Yeah.

Unreal. Okay, so how did you. How did you put the pieces together like you did, you know, you had Lyme at the time, or.

No, not then. Right after that.

So we.

We got out of there by the skin of our teeth, and we got home, and we knew this was all on us now, so we had gone. We were taking them everywhere, trying to figure this Out. We've gone to physio to see if it's muscle related. One doctor and another practitioner mentioned maybe if there's a hernia in there. So I took him to Toronto to a hospital that only works on hernias and said, here's our son. Do you think it could be a hernia? They said, no. I crossed the border into Michigan to a D.O. near Detroit and he didn't know. But while we were there, we did some ivo zone and vitamin IVs. That didn't help. I went to multiple biofeedback practitioners. No one could tell me a root cause. Went to multiple osteopaths. He was well aligned but couldn't see a cause. Went for acupuncture, and that just seemed to make him worse because he was so inflamed where the needles were going to. Took him for electrical pulse therapy, which sounds awful, but it's like a TENS machine. Went for lots of chiropractic care, laser treatment, all kinds of things. And then we weren't getting anywhere. We still didn't know the root cause. And then I started.

Time has passed up to this point.

Oh, nine months. Nine months. And he's just wilting away at home, right, because of his guts wrecked. And the irony, Brian, which makes me feel awful as, as a parent, is the worse he felt, the more he stayed in his room. Well, the room, his window was literally three feet from his footboard. So the worse he felt, the more he stayed, the more exposure he had, the sicker he got, you know, and you feel awful as a parent realizing, but you don't know what you don't know. Right. And so that, I think, just accelerated that downward spiral. So finally I wondered if he possibly had Lyme disease. I didn't know a lot about Lyme. I knew very little about Lyme, but.

I knew across it. Is that how it popped up online?

Just, you know, in passing here and there? Maybe the news. I just knew it was one of those diseases that affected the body systemically and nobody wanted, like, I knew nothing at the time. And I had a little bit of experience, muscle testing. So I ordered a muscle testing kit for Lyme. Just a small kit is maybe 20, 30 vials or something. So it cost me $90. It came in a week or two. And I still remember getting. Because I was excited, I was like, are we going to learn anything? Because we're desperate, right? No answers. And it's getting blamed on, you know, torn muscle, us as bad parents. It's all in his head. He's referred to a psychologist. He was referred to a pain clinic to just learn to live with it. These were the options coming from the medical doctors. So I get this Lyme kit. I still remember walking up the stairs, Isaac was playing Fortnite. I said, hey, bud, can I muscle test you? He has no idea what muscle testing is. And he says, sure. He's a very compliant child, which helped us a ton, right? He did not put up. He didn't put up a fight at all. So he says, sure. So I said, so I put a violinist. And I said, you're just going to hold this one to your chest and I'm going to push on your arm and you just resist, blah, blah, blah. And we went through, and it's like, strong, strong, weak, strong, strong, strong, weak. And I didn't even know what all these names meant at the time, right? So we go through, we get done. We got, I think about five vials. I said, here, bud, let's try this. We put all five vials in his hand. Hold that up. And we both laughed. His arm, he had nothing like his arm was so weak. So I was excited about Lyme disease because we had an answer, right? And yet, you know, Borrelia, babesia, bartonella, mycoplasma, deer tick virus, which is Powassan virus lineage two. And so we finally had an answer. And I found Dr. Jernigan from Honza center in Wichita. And we went there, it's now biologics in Tennessee for the Lyme treatment. And it was there that Dr. Jameson, our wonderful doctor there, I take notes like a madman. I need to know how everything works. I need to know everything. So he would. He would be testing Isaac with frequencies and hand modes. And the one day he turned and looked at me and he said, molds coming up as priority in his gut. And I'm going, mold. That's weird. But I put it in my notes, finished our treatment at the clinic, and Isaac was doing so much better. I think what it was was we were out of our house, right? So we're gone for three weeks. And I think we're going back to normal. So I'm excited, Isaac's excited. We're giving Amy, my wife, updates at home. Everything's going good. We're coming home. We make the 17 hour drive back home. I'm outside and talking to everyone. Isaac goes upstairs to his room to throw his backpack in. He comes back downstairs and goes, dad, I'm dizzy.

And our. We go from being on cloud nine to our hearts just shattering again. Because what the heck just happened? But, Brian, that was the best news, looking back, because now I knew something in his room was bothering him. Now I knew that Dr. Jameson just told me that mold was a priority in his gut. I already knew about his bad window. And that started my crazy research into mold and making me learn how toxic it is and how this was actually the root cause that suppressed his immune system, that allowed his body to not be able to. To deal with Lyme co infections and started that downward spiral. So that was the crazy journey. And that took over a year to get to that point. And then I was in my crash course of learning about mold and becoming a mold hunter at home. I tell you, bro, I went everywhere, like, under the freezer, you know, in the basement. So you got the cold slab, you got the warm freezer. I'm moving everything. I'm looking everywhere, you know, trying to find. So I find mold there, clean it up. And then during one storm in our living room, I saw a water drop or two come down from the trim of our window on the inside. And I'm like, where's that coming from? So I literally stripped all the siding and everything off the outside of the house until I could find some corner flashing on the wraparound porch that was missing, and that was letting water in, which is working down. I was on the hunt because I knew I was finally learning how toxic mold was. And then I learned about mycotoxins. And we had no mycotoxin lab in Canada, so now I had to learn about Great Plains at the time. And then I see his mycophenolic acids over 500, and his ochratoxin A peaked over 100. And I finally was getting the data. I was finally learning, and I was finally able to start putting the pieces together and start pulling that back down.

I mean, the crazy thing about this whole story that sounds ridiculous is that it happens to so many people and almost like the same way, you know, and it's just. It's unfortunate that, you know, you get out of med school and if it wasn't in the book that you read in med school, you're now done learning medicine forever. Because now you're a doctor and you got your. You got your degree and that's it.

And like, absolutely, yeah.

And you have to. You have to do stuff. It's like, do it on your own, but you have to be your own champion. Always going to do it for you, right? If it doesn't fit. You've heard this, I'm sure if it doesn't fit in a diagnosis code in the doctor's system, then it doesn't exist. They can't prescribe a pill for mold illness because mold illness isn't a code that they can prescribe a pill for.

Therefore it doesn't exist. If it's not in their textbook, it's.

Got to be in the code book, and it's got to be in the textbook. Otherwise it's not a thing. And, you know, it's one of the things you said, which, you know, people are getting out and about more now than they have in the last couple years. And before the last couple of years happen, this is always such a telltale sign, even something that we even talk to people maybe trying to do. If they could leave your house for a week, go on a vacation somewhere, see if you feel any better, see if when you come back. I mean, his hit when he came back was really quick, right?

It took like 30 seconds.

Yeah.

Insane.

When you get back, do you feel it worse? A lot of times you don't feel the better as. As dramatically. You're just like, oh, I'm, like, feeling good today a little bit, or whatever. But then when the bad hits you, it's like getting hit with a bad, you know, pile of bricks.

Yeah.

And if you're seeing that and you're feeling that, I mean, that is as big of a sign as you're gonna get from something. Right. And it's not in your head, and you're not crazy, and you're not associating your sickness with your house or your school or whatever the hell they're trying to tell you. Like, your body doesn't feel stuff. Let me say I'm diminishing, like, psychiatric stuff. I know there's something that's there.

Right.

But, like, your body reacts to stuff. Like, that's. That's how it happens. And typically get literally no background. It's like, you know, like, psychology stuff. So don't, like, hold me to it. But, like, trauma is triggered by something you don't just. You're not just around. And now you have trauma that creates response. You know, responses that are driven, you know, like psychiatric types responses. There's some sort of trauma that your body or your mind then adapts to to create whatever that response is. Sometimes it's super early in life, you don't even know what it was. Right. So that could definitely be a thing. But, like, if that's the case and you're talking about some sort of, like, historical trauma, there's no Reason that he just wakes up randomly when he's 10 years old in the middle of the night in the same house he's lived in and doing the same things he's done every day. And all of a sudden it's a problem, right?

Absolutely.

Like, so something you were saying and. And you said a couple times, like, it just doesn't make sense. Like, I. I've said. I've said this a lot, you know, talking about the gut, but get, like, the function out of it, you know, it working or not, but just the concept of, like, your gut being like your second brain in a way, right? Like the gut, brain access. I think that our gut knows what's happening before our brains can figure it out. I think our brains are too smart for their own good. They're trying to process stuff. They're trying to create associations or trying to do all that stuff. And I think our gut is just like, yo, this is.

Something's off.

And that's when you get that gut feeling. And you're sitting in the house, you're watching the horror movie or the person in the house, like, oh, there's somebody back here. Like, logically, there's no reason to think that, but your guts, like, telling you something like that, right? And like, if anybody feels like that regarding this stuff, like, you've got to take that, right? You got to take it. Be like, listen, my. But your body doesn't lie to you about stuff, right? Now, you know, it's so easy to point to, like, psychiatric stuff because actually, in the same way that, like, mold illness doesn't have a typical symptom, you know, it's just like this invisible thing that no one can diagnose, and bam, that must be it. It's like a diagnosis. Because everything else couldn't be diagnosed. So now this is the only thing it could possibly be, which is a little arrogant when you think about it, that apparently the medical community has thought of every single ailment that exists and ever will exist in the history of the world. And because they know all of that, the only thing it can be is a. Is a. You're crazy, Right?

Exactly.

I guarantee you two years ago, nobody knew what Covid was. But that was new. That was a thing, right? So why can't, like, new things happen? Like, why does it always have to go back to, like, you're crazy, you know? And so, like, people listening to this, like, think of it that way, right? Like, you said it earlier, and this is so funny, you said it because it's something that like my family says all the time, like, you don't know what you don't know. Right. So they only know what they know.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, I mean, Covid is the perfect example, because it literally came out of the blue, like nobody knew what it was. Sure as I was making people sick. And guess what it was. It was an airborne thing that we breathe that created internal problems. What does that sound like? Sounds like mold.

Bingo.

So if it's possible for that to do something to someone, but because it's a virus and they understand how to test for viruses, it's okay. Your body gets a foreign invader that's not supposed to be there, it freaks out. It creates responses. It can infect you. You're literally describing mold just as a different organism. That's like, literally what you're doing. Right. So, you know, for everyone out there that's like, going through this. You know, I've told stories before. I've had a couple people on, but, like, hearing these stories hopefully gives, you know, some people the support and the hope and the. And the fortitude they need. Listen, it sucks to have to do all this for a long time. I can only imagine I've never had to do it myself. It's one thing to hear the stories. It's another thing to actually live it.

And I will.

I never have. I mean, we did a. We did. I'm part of the Change the Air foundation, which is a nonprofit that we started this year. And so we donated an inspection.

To this family. We had all these submissions that came in, and the family, the story was crazy. They had three kids. Middle kid drops down. Just four minute seizure on Thanksgiving and continues, just continues. Seizures after seizures after seizures. Just over and over again for a long time.

Awful.

And, you know, they finally kind of get the same path, right? Nothing, whatever it is, take these pills, do this, you know, figure out how to deal with all that stuff. Finally get to somebody who does the mole connection. Then we come in. I mean, the house was not good. I mean, there was. There was stack everywhere. There was katomium everywhere.

There were mycotoxins that we picked up in the house. I mean, it was. It wasn't good, you know, and the whole family was feeling stuck, too. It wasn't just the kid. It doesn't always work like that. So don't make that the through line. Anyone thinking of this, it doesn't have to be everybody in the house. A lot of times it's just one person or a couple of people. But this Particular situation was everybody, it was really bad. Right. And then they figured it out and now they're going, you know, helping them to find a new spot. I got them into molefinders method so they can look at other places and like oh good do and all that stuff. But it's like this stuff happens, it happened. And we, we, we just had our company like annual meeting which was like, really got me like pumped just about everything this last week. And we showed like the video story of that whole thing is probably the 10th time I've seen it. And every time I see it I end up like tearing up like towards the end of it. Every single time.

Yeah. So.

All right, I had another question. So how did you figure out it was mast cell that was doing that was causing the pain?

It was just research, you know, because it didn't make sense to me. And, and because I'm the type of person I am, I research until I find the answer. I don't stop. You know, it's like you, if, you know there's, if you see stacky in here, you're going to find the source of it. Right. And I'm that way with, with like a health detective. And it was, there has to be a reason. And it was just research because there's no, you know, clinically, it's a clinical diagnosis because actually getting a blood test at the right time in a flare, if you have a doctor that actually believes you and is willing to do this, which is a massive hurdle to cross, it can be extremely hard to get. But it became crystal clear and then it became obvious like if he was feeling okay. And I remember one time we stopped at a secondhand store because the kids like to look for toys or games or stuff, they're cheap and they would buy it with their own money. So we went into here, into the store and you know, in a secondhand store, this is where the stuff comes from. Out of people's basements and attics. Right. And we circled around the store, saw nothing that he was interested in. We were literally in there for about three minutes and we came out, got back in my truck and we were going to our next stop and all of a sudden his stomach pain just flared. The needle just went from 0 to 100. And it was just, it was, you know, you could start connecting all the dots. It's not just food, it's not just the house, it's this. And then it would trigger dizziness, nausea, head pain, fatigue or stomach pain and fatigue and you'd see the same thing each time. So whether we went to someone else's house where it was, you know, the air quality was questionable, and then you'd see him flare, it became obvious that it was, that it was mast cell and histamine problem because he'd have the same thing if he ate high histamine, food or drinks. It was always the same. The trigger would always be the same.

Well, that's the thing that makes it so hard, is that, that you're triggered by food, you're triggered by environment.

It absolutely makes it nearly impossible. And that's why it was so frustrating, because I had to learn this all the slow, hard, expensive way. And I had the time to because I was self employed and worked online. And that's why I do this now. Because how are regular people who have kids go down and they have full time jobs and can't stop, how are they supposed to get the help when they go to the medical system? Just like we did, and we spent nine, ten months in there getting referrals to psychologists and pain clinics so he can learn to live with it the rest of his life. That's not okay. That's not fair. That's not common sense. That's not. They're literally doing more harm than they are helping. And that's what made me so angry about what we went through and why I do what I do now. Because like you, you can see these things a mile away now. And this is what you understand, right? And it was just so backwards, everything we went through, all the way down to the can we trust Dad? I don't think we can trust dad. And it's like, how did I become the enemy? Because you don't know anything about mold toxicity or histamine or mast cell flares or Lyme disease. But when all else fails, maybe we should question mom and dad. And it was just such a frustrating, awful experience. And you have to be so careful when you're in hospitals with kids, right? You can't rock the boat. You can't say what you want to say because that's not always a good idea. And it was just ridiculous. And then people would ask, how's Isaac doing? And how's the other kids doing? And even our Abigail, who was a toddler at the time, she had just gone off the deep end at times, just scream fast. And looking back, she was having pan symptoms from the mold exposure. But we just thought, what's happening to our happy? She would, she would just scream. And when I say scream, I don't mean like pout wine cry. This is like we put her in her room or I would literally take her out to our barn because we still had our farm then, which was a nice barn. Brian, this is not a mean barn. This is where we'd roll her blade, play basketball and things, but just to remove her from the house. And she had screamed so loud and hard that she actually damaged her vocal cords and had a raspy voice. And she would have meltdowns in the kitchen, meltdowns in the mall. And Amy was trying to get her on the bus one morning and she kicked the bus backwards. And Amy and her come back out of the bus and it was just. We couldn't figure out what was happening. But looking back now, that's exactly what was happening with her. But as we removed exposure and added in a little bit of supplements, that all peeled back away and was gone. But parents, you see this happening all the time. And parents don't recognize what's happening with their kids. And it can be something as simple as mold in the house.

Yeah. So for people listening pans, Pandas, it's a.

Pediatric acute neurological something. You got me off the top of my head. Do you have it off the top?

Pediatric, acute onset neuropsychiatric syndrome and pediatric. Yeah, it's. They just autoimmune encephalitis. That's why I like calling it AE because we don't. I mean, one is triggered by strep. One can be anything but strep. Their brain's on fire. And mold and mycotoxins cause such immunosuppression, immune dysregulation, which causes autoimmunity, which can attack the brain and go there. Other kids, I see it attack and go to their intestines. And we've got seven and eight year olds diagnosed with Crohn's and it's just ridiculous. It's like, no, fix what's. What's wrecking the immune system. What's causing this immune dysregulation and dysfunction.

I mean, that's the thing with autoimmune. Like something causes your body to attack itself. It freaks out. It sees something, it goes nuts. It doesn't do it for no reason. Like anyone who has. I mean, I've seen people with Ms. And other things like that absolutely start to get better. All of a sudden that mess starts carrying itself when you get out of the, you know, something that's non curable starts curing itself when you. There was, there was a study. I was at a classic years, years ago. I'm trying to remember off the top.

Of my head.

There was a group with cancer or a group of people who were all diagnosed with cancer, right.

Half of them, they put.

And.

And antifungals don't help everything when there's mold issues. Right. Like, there's more to it than that. But half of them, they put on antifungals, and half of them, they just left alone. And a big portion of the ones on antifungals started getting better.

Wow.

And that's. Antifungals isn't even, like, the primary way.

No, I know.

I handle stuff. So I. I remember I had. I've worked with several people that had cancer, and one of them. I won't mention the doctor, but she's pretty prominent in the world of this stuff. And it was her patient and was diagnosed with cancer. And she calls me.

Or I called her, and I let her know I, you know, got somebody. Anyways, we were talking. She's like, yeah, I'm convinced. I'm convinced her cancer is because of her house. I'm just convinced. She's like. I was like, all right, well, you know, I'll go in. It's interesting because this particular house had a kid in it, and the kids. We're talking about kids stuff. So a couple, like, really big, like, kid triggers and things. If they start, like, peeing the bed again after they haven't peed the bed in, like, five years, and all of a sudden, they're having bedwetting issues. Huge, huge sign. Well, you were describing with pants Panda. Stuff other people describe as, my kid literally has a different personality. Like, it's not my kid anymore. It's like they're possessed. It's like somebody else.

Exactly. Yeah.

That's another big thing, right? It's like, those are a couple of things. So I go in the house, this particular kid had a re.

Re. Bed wedding, had come back, right? And then, you know, the mom was. Was, you know, had cancer, obviously, and going through the house and places, a disaster all day. I was there for, like, I don't know, eight, nine hours going through.

Wow.

And then I called the doctor on the way back, like, it's not good. This place is not good.

And she's like, yeah, I knew. I knew that it was. We know the problem. And guys, like, listen to this. All right? The problem with a lot of people is when you start talking about it being their house, they start getting defensive. Can't be my. Like, we're saying you did something wrong. Like, that's not what we're saying, right? It can't be my house. It's my home. It's my, you know, it's supposed to be my. My place of protection and. Or I keep a clean house. There's no way to have them because I clean my house. I'm not this slob that has mold growing all over the walls and stuff like that. And that's not. None of that is what it is. Right. So if you. I mean, I literally, like, coach doctors on how to navigate this objection. On what's going on. Because no one can help somebody who's in, like, hardcore denial like that unless they realize that that why they're in denial doesn't make sense. Right. And you have to get out of that mode before you're open to doing stuff. And I will literally sit down and, like, train doctors on how to, like, have conversations that, like, help to work past, like, this whole my house can't be doing it thing. Right. But that's really important. So listen, if you're here, you're feel. You're listening, you're feeling, you know, whatever stuff goes off. I mean, honestly, if you're listening to this podcast, you already kind of open your eyes.

The fact that mold.

No, nobody's, like, who's browsing like. Like their podcast. Like, oh, Rogan something. Oh, And Moldfinders Radio. Cool. Nobody's doing that.

You never know. You never know, Brian, how they found you.

We'll see. We'll see how that happens. But I imagine you're already there. But maybe you have a spouse or a husband or somebody who's not there, because that's pretty common.

Make them listen to this. Right? Like, these stories are the things. And if nothing else, even if your husband or your spouse is like, I still don't believe it. Just be like, what's the worst that can happen? We can get better. It's the worst that can happen. That's it. The worst that can happen is we actually figure out what's going on, and then we decide. And I think one big thing is, like, man, if I decide or if I find out that it's the house, I'm stuck for so much money. And then it ends up being, like, the fear of having to spend money to fix something then becomes a reason to not even try to figure it out in the first place. And then I'd rather just sit here and feel like this for the rest of my life. Guys, just because, you know something's going on doesn't mean you have to sit there and Spend all the money to fix it. You know, the other option is you get up and go somewhere else where it's not bad. Like, that's the other option.

And you know, there's things about, you know, if you own your house, you have to disclose. You not have to disclose. Give a quick, quick one, one big tip on the disclose, not disclose stuff. If you don't actually test anything.

Then you have nothing to disclose. If you do test stuff but you ask your inspector not to send you an inspection report, you don't have a report to provide in disclosures. So therefore you have nothing to disclose. Now listen, it's not about like trying to hide stuff or whatever, but if that's the thing that's like keeping you from like doing something and you're afraid of that happening.

You could have your house inspected. You could have it tested. All the lab results go to your inspector. They don't go to you, right? You could have your inspector give you a verbal on what's going on and choose not to have stuff sent to you. And bam, there goes your excuse. It's not an excuse anymore. And that's such a huge excuse for people. Now obviously I would love for everything to get disclosed, and in a perfect world, that would happen. But the real world is.

While the way that homes are built and homes are maintained and the knowledge of people about homes and all this stuff is really not good, it's not necessarily on an individual person to have to change all of that on their own, right? And say, oh, we did all this testing, now I'm on the hook to fix this house because I can't, you know, do, you know, leave a house or do whatever, right?

That's what we're trying to do with, change the air. So to make your, make your guilt feel better, let me and my team work towards that. We've got four states where there's literally mold laws been written into state legislature in terms of disclosures and things like that have to happen. There's another 10 that are moving towards. We're working with federal entities, military, we partnered with the iicrc, which is the industry standard for remediation. Like, there's a lot of stuff. We literally launched this thing in like the middle of the year and all of this stuff has happened like since then. So if, if that's the concern, put it on, put it on. Me and my team and everybody that we're surrounded with, we'll push that envelope, right? Just do what you need to do to handle yourself. And if you want to be an advocate down the road like Matt has become, and he's become somebody that people can lean on, then you can do that. Or if you're somebody who just wants to go on with your life and not have to worry about it and feel guilty about it, you could be that person too. That's okay, right?

So let's wrap it up by talking about what you at what you are doing now. What is pharmacy.com? what's, what's the deal? What are you up to? What do you help people with?

So pharmacy.com is with an F, not pH. So it's like a farm, like grow your medicine. Because the beautiful thing is God made herbs and plants to be full of medicinal properties and you don't have to go into the western medical system to get drugged to health, you know, so mold toxicity, we have a whole swath of amazing herbs and binders and supplements that you can use to get better. So with pharmacy.com I wanted to make some of these lines that aren't available to regular people or they don't know where they should be going. These accessible to regular people because not everyone can afford to have expensive doctors. And if they can come and watch some free videos or if they want a consultation, they can do that with me. But they can also get their hands on these things to start walking this backwards. And as you know, the number one step to healing from old toxicity is avoidance. So just remember folks, to try not to treat. I mean, you need to treat in place if you can't get out. But absolutely make it your goal to either fix the problem or move. Because you can't do quick full healing if you're constantly breathing mycotoxins in. So that's always my number one tip to people is what's your air like? And like you said, so many homes are, are moldy and they don't know it. And that I see that with, with almost every client. They say what you said, surely my home can't be moldy. So it's helping people understand. Let's check your body with the mycotoxin lab. No, you don't have to give, you don't have to get a blood draw. You can just do a simple fasted urine test. We can rule it in or out. You know, we have easy labs to confirm or rule things out. We've got good, healthy, safe options for treating the body. And then there's amazing inspectors like yourself that if there is a problem in the house, you can come find that problem, help write up that Report and they can find someone to help deal with that so they can get back to the life that they want to live.

Absolutely. Listen, Matt did it. His son did it. Right. His daughter. His daughter did it. You can do it. Other people have done it. It can happen. So I know it feels overwhelming, and it sometimes it takes a really long time. And at some point, we hit this wall where we're like, ugh, this is just what it is. Like, it doesn't have to be that. And learn from the mis. I don't say mistakes. Just learn from the path that people have taken. It's not like you're making mistakes. It's just that you had to learn what you didn't know. Right. Didn't know, we didn't know. Like, learn from this stuff and speed up the timeline. Right. There's the old way of doing it, where you have to literally go through everything matches described in this whole journey. Or there's the new way of doing it, which is finding people that dealt with it and fast track a lot of that stuff. Right. And surround yourself with people that know what they're talking about, you know, and not every answer has to come from a traditional doctor. You know, just. It's just there's other ways to do stuff. You know, they're good for certain things. Listen, I have a general practitioner for basic stuff, and I have a functional doctor for all the other things that I know that they're not going to think about. Right. Like, you build a team around you of. With people who are specialists in areas that you're looking for help in. Right. It doesn't have to be one person, you know, so. All right. You got anything that. That we should throw in here at the end?

No, just consider the big things we talked about that understand that mold's toxic. You're not always going to get the answers from your medical doctor. And your home could have mold, even if you think it shouldn't. So those are kind of the big things under keep your mind open as this of being a possibility. And just remember, we have easy labs and ways to find out if this is affecting you or your family.

Awesome. Thanks, Matt. I appreciate you taking the time. Come on and chat. And we're doing something else that we're working on, so sometime in the future, there'll be something else. Kind of cool.

I'm very excited, and thank you for having me, Brian.

Yeah, of course. All right, talk to you later. Bye. Bye.

Bye.

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