149: Understanding IV Laser Treatment & NAET for Mold-Related Health Challenges with Dr. Daniel Johns

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey everybody. Welcome to another show. This one's pretty cool. It's interesting, it's different. It's probably not something that you've heard a lot in many different places. I actually had a story of a client who was in a similar situation as this individual that I'm going to introduce in a second. Where it was, it was a kid. He was nine. He was a normal nine year old kid. He was doing peewee sports, doing all the things, moved into a house that had a mold issue. He went from being that active sports kid to being in a wheelchair nine months later.

And then being able to bounce back and recover from it as well. When some things got figured out, exposure got taken away a couple small. It wasn't even like a big thing that had to happen for him to bounce back. It was just understanding what triggered it and kind of fixing that. And most people's stories are not like that extreme to that extent, but everybody has their own version. And to yourself it is extreme all the time.

What I want to do is bring somebody up who's maybe more on the extreme end of the spectrum of their impact of what's happened with them and how they actually help to heal themselves, who also happens to be a doctor and now works with people as well who are going down their journey but are impacted by environmental stuff, mold stuff, all that stuff. So this is Dr. Daniel Johns. He was a chiropractor whose life turned him into an integrated medicine provider, which is kind of everybody's story in this world. Everybody has their own connection and then they're like, oh, why am I not doing this? This is so much more fulfilling and whatnot. So with all of that said, Dr. Daniel Johns, how's it going?

All right, awesome. Thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and just super excited to be talking about this.

Yeah, I'm excited too. I hope what people get out of this, and we talked about this a little bit beforehand, is.

To spark an idea of something that may help if you tried a lot of things and they haven't helped yet. And I think if that's like the thought process going into this episode, everyone listening. What Dr. Johns did for himself was not necessarily like full blown. Full blown standard protocols that you see on social media everywhere that everyone posts, frankly, because everyone's unique and individual and you could try to put stuff out as much as you can, but binders only help so much people. So.

He did some interesting things and it may or may not be the right fit for anybody. Right. Just like any portion of a protocol isn't. But what's interesting is hearing where he started, where he came from, and.

Then understanding some of the things that you did to help get you to that point, I think is interesting and it may resonate with some people to bring up to your doctor and who you're working with or to deep dive research more and whatever that might be. So that's kind of the goal for today. That's what I hope we get out of today for everyone listening. So, Dr. Johnson, why don't we start with your story. Let's have everyone sort of hear what happened, where you started, where it ended, all that stuff. Let's go through it.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So, yeah, before I go down that road, just to kind of go off of what you were saying, that my biggest thing to people is don't ever give up. Don't let someone tell you, like, this is. This is the protocol. You either responded to it or you didn't. And that's always my big thing. So hopefully that's something you guys can take away. Today is no matter who you're working with, no matter what protocols you're trying to keep going, if you're not there, there's always more things out there and. And don't give up. So, yeah, this all started for me last year, June of 2022. Woke up one morning, it was a Saturday. Woke up and felt like I had pulled a hamstring. And I remember texting my brother and I was like, is this what your mid-30s is like? You just sleep weird and you pull a hamstring?

I couldn't unbutton my shirt. I couldn't walk downstairs. I couldn't peel a banana. I had to have my staff open up my lunches for me. I get the prepackaged lunches, and by Thursday, I was starting to lose my voice. And so fortunately, I have a nurse practitioner that works for me who's good friends with a neurologist. And so we kind of got on this right away and started working through some things, started doing some blood work. But by Thursday, once I started losing my voice, I was like, nope, like, we got to go to the hospital. So Friday morning, ended up in the hospital. I was there for six days. And we did high dose steroids, ivig, all the things which stopped the progression. Like, I stopped getting worse. But at that point, the neurologist was like, you know, we did all the tests, we did all the MRIs, all the biopsies, all the things. And the neurologist was like, you have inclusion body myositis, which anybody in the medical field, you know, that's not a great outlook. And he was pretty much like, you're going to be in a wheelchair within five years.

Can you explain what that is?

A little bit more, yeah. So there's a couple of different types of myositis. Inclusion body myositis is the one that I was presenting as. It's not what it ended up being. Ended up being a autoimmune myositis. So my body just started attacking my muscles and I literally, like my quads, within a week just visibly shrank. My muscles were so inflamed that they couldn't function properly, they couldn't contract properly. And that's what a myositis is. Inclusion body myositis is we start getting things in the muscles and it just progressively gets worse and worse and eventually, you know, takes your life.

So that's, that's what I left the hospital with. And fortunately, I'm married to a woman who moves mountains and she was like, I'm getting in with every specialist and we're going to figure this out. And that started my journey over the next couple of months of bouncing from one neuromuscular specialist to another, to a geneticist and all of this trying to figure out what was going on. In the meantime, I had severe, severe fatigue. This is a common theme. I could be up for three hours at a time, then I'd have to nap for another three hours. All the brain fog, all of that. All this time I had people, I had to step away from practice completely. So this is a very, like, public thing. So we had all the people that, you know, patients, family members, all of that that were like, well, have you thought of this? Have you thought of this? And mold came up multiple times. And I was like, it's not mold because mold starts slow and mold doesn't respond to steroids. So it's not mold. And, you know, I kind of kept going down that route of it's not mold. I've been in this. Nothing happened in the house. Nothing changed. I was fine. Friday and something happened. By Saturday and then it was there. Fortunately, I ended up seeing a naturopath at one point who was like, you know, this is not mold. He's like, but it might be mold. Might be a portion of this, or lime might be a part of this. He's like, let's rule out the fatigue and the brain fog isn't at least mold. So we kind of started down that route. My muscle stuff was still getting worse. Actually, a year ago last week was, I was. We went to the Baltimore Aquarium and I had to be in a wheelchair just to go around the aquarium. And I did a four mile bike ride this weekend, so. So that's exciting.

Yeah. So anyway, so we're starting down that road, started working with the naturopath, and he was like, you know, let's do some testing. We did our army test. It was through the roof. He started me on some binders and nothing was helping because I was still in the house. And finally he was like, you just need to move out, see what happens, go move to an Airbnb. And, you know, so finally I moved to an Airbnb. Not knowing a whole lot about mold, I chose a terrible Airbnb. Fortunately, God was in control, and somehow I got an Airbnb in downtown Annapolis. It was super old that didn't have mold. So moved into there, and within two days, I went a whole day without napping. And I was like, ah, okay, hold on. Maybe. Maybe this is actually mold. So, um, found a really good mold provider and started down that whole route. The binders, you know, the IVs, all the things. And I made significant progress. And my brain fog went away, my fatigue went away, but the muscular stuff was still there. And then I was still getting positive findings on emgs and the neuromuscular specialists, the rheumatologists were like, this is. It's like you still have the autoimmune disease. Like, I'm glad that your other stuff is getting better, but the muscle stuff is still there. And one day I went into the mold provider that I was seeing and I had a cough. And, you know, I got. I have two kids and they gave me a cough. And he was like, you know, there's a bunch of mycoplasma infections going around. Let's do this thing called IV laser. And it knocks out mycoplasma really quickly. And that was on a Thursday. So I did the IV laser on Thursday. This was back in February. It was my son's birthday party that weekend. I was still fatiguing, walking upstairs by Thursday. By Saturday, I was jumping on trampolines and throwing 5 year olds into a ball pit. Like it was light bulb. Like things changed and all of a sudden I had my muscles back and.

I was like, explain what Ivy laser is.

Yeah, so it's super common in Europe. It's been done, and I think it was actually developed first in Russia, but it's been used in Europe for about 30 years. And it's literally an IV and instead of infusing something, they run a fiber optic cable into the vein and then run through a bunch of different wavelengths and irradiate the blood while it's flowing around for about an hour to an hour and a half.

Yeah. So really, like, I mean, I think we have one now. We're like the second one in the state of Maryland to have it. It's just not super common here in the U.S.

What is the Met? Like, what does it do? So. Because I know that there's late. Like, if you actually had. I did this recently. I was having a shoulder issue for months and like resting. It wasn't fixing it. I couldn't lift my arm up. I was having all these, like a lot of pain problems in my shoulder. And I was going to. I started going to a chiropractor for, you know, like, I don't know, maybe there's something here. But it felt like it was more of like a muscular thing is what it felt like. Or. Or like a cartilage thing. Just like something that was more structural.

As opposed to whatever.

And he has laser treatments in his office. And he was doing it on my lower back because I'm like, apparently my body is like twisted or whatever. I had no idea. So he was doing it like down there. And I was like. Then I started researching laser stuff and I was like, oh, it's interesting. Like what laser does. It influences healing. It brings. It brings, you know, boost the immune area, you know, the response, all the things that it does. And I went and I found a laser device online. It was like 400 bucks or something. And you. It's. It's mostly used for people who do like CrossFit and stuff when their joints are hurting and they need to like regenerate and like kind of, you know, for. For repair and recovery. And I put it on my. And I did it on my shoulder probably for four weeks every day. And I have zero shoulder pain afterwards, like completely healed. It blew my mind like, how effective it was.

So.

So obviously I know the wavelengths and stuff, but like the laser just like laser therapy in general is like very, very interesting. So with that kind of precursor or that like set on there, like what does, what does infusing actually laser within, directly within the veins and the blood. Like how does that work? What does it do?

Yeah, so that allows us. So what you probably have is either a red light laser or an infrared laser, because the only two that are going to actually penetrate through the skin and get to muscle and all of that. So in the, in the manual therapy world, the infrared in your red lasers do all sorts of great things, just like you got to experience there for the shoulder. What we get on the infra or on the IV side is we can use blue, we can use yellow and we can use green and we can use ultraviolet. We still use red as well. But ultraviolet, blue, green and yellow will not penetrate deep enough to actually get to your arteries and veins. So the problem is the skin absorbs all of that, so it can't get in. So we get. And that's why there are some devices out there where they'll actually pull blood out, use UV light to basically clean the bud and then transfuse it back in. But this actually allows you to transfuse or to irradiate your blood as it circulates. So that's the biggest being able to put it right into the vein is you get these other wavelengths that just wouldn't physically be able to make it to the vein without being physically placed in the vein. So what it does, they all do a bunch of different things. So green does a lot of anti inflammatory things. It also pulls hemoglobin off.

The wall, the arterial wall or the vein wall, and allows it to be free flowing. It also increases nitric oxide so that we can get some vasodilation. And that's one of the big things that the laser does is it increases micro circulation both in the brain and throughout the tissues. And I think that was probably one of the things that got me that like immediate jolt back was all of a sudden all these muscles that had been so deteriorating over time got this big flood of oxygen and blood flow to the muscles as it was irradiating the blood. It also increases your immunoglobulins. So once I was out of the hospital, we tried ivig, like donated immunoglobulins twice and both times it put me in the hospital with severe reactions. But the IV laser increases your endogenous immunoglobulins. So they've done studies where they've looked at your immunoglobulins. They Do a round of the laser and then measure immunoglobulins again. And your immunoglobulins are significantly higher after the laser. So now your immune system is able to function at a higher rate, which is why it's so effective for autoimmune conditions.

I can forever about the Weber laser. So I don't want to go, like, too deep down that I know.

I'm like. I'm, like, super interested in this. While we're doing this, real quick, before I forget, we'll get back.

Oxygenating the blood for muscles, for organs. Like, there's a lot more benefit to that than I'm sick and I need, like, help on something. Like, is. Is there an application of this stuff for, like, preventative maintenance for increased performance for things like that?

Like, is.

Is it IV radiation type of. Not radiation, irradiation type of therapy? Yeah, don't radiate it.

Is that, like an application? And then do the specific colors, like, do different things essentially. Like, if you're thinking of it like that.

They do. Yeah. Yeah. So we actually have a couple of semi pro athletes that we also see on, like, the chiropractic side of the clinic. This, because there's been studies in Italy where they've looked at your max performance lifting. So they've looked at. Looked at max deadlift and max bench press, and after one IV session, it increases your max bench and deadlift by 10%, and that lasts for about 10 weeks. So you tell an athlete that, and they're like, dude, sign me up. I'm ready to do this all day long. It's completely legal. There's, like, no doping. It's literally just your own blood cells. We're just getting your red blood cells to function better. We're getting better perfusion into the muscles, and that automatically makes you stronger. Wow.

Yeah, we can. We can get off of the tangent, but this is. This is really, really cool. Okay, continue. All right, so you started doing. You started doing this. You were jumping on the trampoline a couple of days later.

Yeah.

All right, let's jump back in.

Yeah. So. So, I mean, that was, like, the pivotal moment in my life, aside from, you know, the pivotal moment of not being able to walk down the stairs. That was also pivotal, but this was a positive pivotal moment of, like, hold the phone. It, like, changed my whole perceptive or my perspective on autoimmunity. And I was like, we can fix autoimmunity, because I just did it in, like, three days here. Unknowingly. My muscles are better. So that's starting me down a whole path of like, okay, so how can we take. Not only for autoimmune patients, but also for people struggling with cirs, how can we get their immune system back to. For me, I was always like this. Like, prior to June 6th, I was completely healthy. I was treating patients, I was working, I was fine, I was healthy. June 6 game, and it was just, you know, something changed and then I wasn't healthy anymore. So how do I get back to that? So that was really my, like, big push. And I was like, there has to be a way to do it. As soon as I had the laser, I was like, ah, this is. This is proof that it can be done. And I've also practiced NAET for years prior to this. And we used a primary Nate NAET therapy as a way to retrain your body away from allergies. It was developed by a really smart lady who has lots of degrees. And it's a way to retrain the central nervous system so that you don't have immune reactions to gluten or whatever. And we've been doing it for years and really use it strictly for retraining gluten sensitivities, lactose, you know, I'm allergic to my cats, things like that. As soon as we had the experience with the laser, I was like, oh, what can I do from a NAT stand for you? Or what can I take from this to also continue retraining the immune response, because clearly it can be changed. So then, then we kind of developed our own, like, I don't want to say it's our own protocol, but, like, went down a different path with NAET of trying to actually train our antigen presenting cells, our mast cells, our B cells, our T cells, all of that. So I had to find a naturopath who makes his own vials. And we can talk about the vials here in a second. But that has all the oscillatory frequencies of these different cells. And I was like, okay, I'm going to like, literally just start from the ground up and train my central nervous system to work properly with antigen presenting cells, with our B cells, with our T cells, and just work my whole way through the immune response and try to fix my autoimmunity and fix. I also, you know, as lots of people do, had a lot of sensitivity to smell. I could literally, like, walk by somebody that had perfume on and I'd have severe brain fog and all that. I was like, I have to be able to train that away too.

So then I started down that route of using kind of the basis of Nate and going a little beyond that to retrain the immune response. And it all sounds really, really crazy. And out there and 80 is one of those things I do all the time, and people are like, this is voodoo. This is. This is kind of crazy. Like, I can't believe that this just worked. I can, you know, pick up my cat again, and my eyes don't itch. And now we're able to use it to decrease their sensitivity to mold and mycotoxins and to perfumes and all the, you know, VOCs and all that. Wow.

Interesting. So it's a combination of the two things. The IV laser is more about kind of immediate healing in a way. And then the NAT is changing the body's response to antigens so you don't get those histamine reactions, which is essentially what an allergy is. Right. So you're not getting the histamine releases.

Yeah. Wow. There's the whole. There's a whole concept of that's what's causing the brain fog, is it's your mast cells overreacting, creating more histamine that creates the inflammation. Then we're closing off all those little arterials in the brain. We get less blood flow, and then we get all the decreased brain function. Right?

Yeah. Mast cell is kind of the exaggerated version of a lot of that happening, which causes a lot of these things. Right. So is the idea that you look at NAT as like, a mast cell treatment modality? Is that the idea?

Yeah, yeah. Kind of a. Kind of a. Like a little more global than just mast cell. But we can treat mast cells with it, but trying to just retrain that hyperactivity in the central nervous system so that it can impact the immune response, that we don't have this mast cell release. We don't have the histamine release. We don't have the, like. We can do a lot, actually, on the, like, brain side as well. I know you've talked a lot about on the podcast the just limbic response to being in a moldy environment. You smell mold, and that whole limbic system fires. And, you know, it's not enough maybe, to really, actually impact your body, but your brain says, oh, my gosh, we're back in a moldy environment, and. And you have the whole freak out. You know, another way. There's lots of different ways to retrain the limbic system, but NAT is another way that I found that does a really good job of doing that.

So what is NAT like? How is it executed?

Is it.

Is it a visual thing? Is it.

What. What is. How does it work? No, so it's. It's based on muscle testing. And I have to. I have to say this. What. And this is so that Roy doesn't call me afterwards and say I'm misrepresenting NAET. But what we do is separate from the NAT protocol. Like, the NAET protocol is you treat your baseline 15 on every single person. It's not based off of muscle testing, all of that. So I. I want to be clear, like, I am. We're. I'm going to say NAT a lot, but it's not really the true NAET protocol. It's kind of our version of that. But. Yeah, so what we do, we have all the little vials, and it has the oscillatory frequency of whatever it is we're testing whether it's eggs, whether it's T cells, whatever. And that person holds it in their hand, and their arm test will go weak, and they'll be able to hold their arm test out, and I will push down on their arm, and they'll be strong. We put the vial that they're responding to in their hand, and their arm test goes. We can. I can literally, like, push people down with a finger. And that's the part just by holding.

The vial of the trigger, you're just holding. You're getting the muscle response. Like that.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Because it basically, like. The way I explain it is that it freaks the central nervous system out. The central nervous system says, oh, my gosh, like it's, you know, eggs or cats or whatever it is that we're treating. I don't like that. And sets off the alarm bells, and then you globally go weak. So it's easy for us to test one muscle and. And feel that immediate loss of muscle strength and your shoulder muscles or, you know, whatever muscle we're testing.

So it's the frequency of that trigger, and not like the breathing or ingesting of it, but it's. It's an actual frequency that your body's reacting to.

Yep, Yep. It's the actual, like, oscillations that the body's picking up on. Oscillations, Energy, whatever you want to call it, but it's the oscillations of your fingertips holding that that is enough to set off the central nervous system. Wow. Yeah, it's. It's wild. And I will be honest. So I got into this because my wife had autoimmune disease, thyroiditis, years and years ago. And she saw an AT provider, and it got significantly better, and she didn't have to go on medications and all of that. And for the first three months of the training, I was like, I wasted my money. There is no way this works. And it wasn't until, like, month four that I was like, all the light bulbs clicked that I was able to pull in the neurology side of it. I was like, oh, we're just retraining the brain. I get it, okay? But it's weird to have a little glass vial that someone puts in your hand, and your arm test goes weak, but.

It'S pretty fantastic.

So that's like, the diagnosis piece of it, kind of like, what's the action?

Like, does it activate or work? So then the treatment is treatment up and down the spine. So we do oscillations and vibration up and down the spine. It's similar to stubbing your toe on your nightstand and rubbing your toe. You didn't fix anything from just jamming your toe into the nightstand. All you're doing is providing touch and proprioception back into the central nervous system to say, hey, everything's okay. I don't feel any broken bones. There's no blood. Like, turn off the alarm bells. So that's all we're doing with the vibration up and down the spine is turning off the alarm bells while they're still holding the thing that set off the alarm bells. Initially.

Within 20 seconds, their arm test will go completely strong. And then we do a couple action points, and we wait 25 hours, retest them after 25 hours, and so long as they pass it, they're strong. We move on to the next thing down the line. So, like, does that fix it?

Like, one. Like, how many times you have to do this? Like, what? So how does this work?

So typically, it's one time per allergen, so. Or per sensitivity or whatever we're trying to retrain. So if we're treating B cells, it's one time. The next time I test you, you should be strong on it. And we'll move forward every once in a while. So somebody will be, like, really reactive or their central nervous system won't be where we need it to, and we'll have to repeat one. But that's. That's really pretty rare. So it's one per thing that we're treating. So let's say you're coming in and you have brain fog and mold exposure and Lyme and all the things you might fail. 30 different things, and we're going to go through and treat each one of those. Not necessarily that we have to treat all 30, but we're going to go for the most, the biggest ones, to make that change to your central nervous system so that it can start to function properly. Once it starts to function properly, we start to get kind of a cascade effect of like, okay, well, you used to fail all of these when I tested you the first time around. Now that we've fixed some of these bigger triggers, now you're not feeling that anymore. Now your central nervous system is able to function normally.

Wow. So if you come in and you're known to be allergic to cats, and you pull the cat vial of whatever the cat frequency is, and then you do this thing, you do the spine massage for the period of time.

Time.

We're saying in theory, I could walk back into an apartment with cats and.

Not react anymore a day later. Yeah.

And it holds. How long does it stay?

It holds outside of significant trauma. So significant trauma can throw off the central nervous system and it'll revert. Like, we just had someone a couple of weeks ago who I treated years ago, and she had been fine and then she was in a really traumatic event and all of her migraines came back and all of her sensitivities came back. We only. It only took us like four times, granted, the first time around, it took us, I think, like 15 sessions to get her. This time we only had to redo, like, four sessions and her migraines went away. So outside of significant trauma, it will hold forever. Childbirth also counts as trauma. Yeah.

That's fair.

I've seen it. I get it.

Yeah.

Wow. Okay. Can I just ask a question? Why is nobody doing this for allergies?

So there's a decent number of NAET providers out there. It's just not. Because I think. Right. It sounds crazy, right. That I'm going to give you a vial and your arm test is going to go weak. So it's really hard to market that. So I don't think a lot of people know about it outside of, like, if you're already seeing a provider that happens to do it because it sounds so crazy. And people are like, no, there's no way this works. So then providers that do it are like, well, I'm not going to advertise it because how am I going to advertise this and make people understand it? So it's typically a like, word of mouth thing where like, dude, it worked for me. You should go and try it. It's crazy. I. I know it sounds crazy, but it worked for me. Go do it. And then that person comes in. It works for them, and they tell me they're different, and it goes from there.

Oh, my God. Can I tell you how to market this in my world? And the way I'm thinking about this, just side event, you.

I.

First off, I. What I want to say before we get into this, I love that we're talking about two things that have, like, their own effects. And then what you did was figure out how to, like, work them together to address something else. This is so cool, by the way. And I keep going on tangents on the individual things, because the individual things are so cool. So real quick, the way that I would set this up, if I was going to market it, I would say free treatment come in. You give your credit card, the treatment costs, whatever it costs. Let's just say it costs 100 bucks. I know it's more than that, I'm sure, but let's just say it's 100 bucks. You don't get charged for seven days. If within the seven days you feel like it didn't work, we won't charge it. Otherwise, it charges. And then people are getting, like, free trials, but the card is on file. Automatically charge them. You give.

I don't know.

This is how I would set up. Because if it really works that quickly, like in a couple days, like, you're noticing it, it's incredible.

Yeah. Like, what your allergies are, you know, if it's strictly just a cat allergy, like, that is literally like a couple of sessions. Sometimes it's a. Like, okay, you're allergic to the cat, you're allergic to the cat dander, and you're allergic to the cat hair. Like, it's annoying. We have to treat each one, but three sessions in, and you're completely gone. Sometimes it's like, hey, I have a dairy allergy. And we go through and we start testing, and turns out you have a dairy allergy, you have a sugar allergy, and you have a lactase sensitivity. So it's not even just. Lactose is the enzyme that breaks it down that you're also responding to. But, yeah, when it's like, one allergy, it's super easy to treat. I'm. I'm now to the point where, like, I'm not even really treating allergies anymore. We're doing all CRS patients. So, like, when people come in, they're failing 20, 30 things and they're filling all the. They're failing the lines and they're failing the babesia then. And we're going through and treating all of those things. But yeah, when you're doing it for like just allergies, it can be a couple of visits and done. Crazy.

Absolutely crazy. And very cool. And it's like a 20 second thing. Like, you hold it 20 seconds. That's a treatment like rubbing the back.

So you hold 15 minutes afterwards. So we do the, we do the sections up and down the back. You muscle test strong. We stimulate a couple acupoints with a little accustomed. And you hold it for. Because we've got to give the brain a little bit of time to process what just happened to it. So it's about a 20 minute proven. Amazing. All right, I'm.

I'm done going down this side too. I'm sorry. I keep sidetracking everything. I just think it's all so cool.

All right, so let's, let's put it together now. I think we're at the point where you're putting it together and talking about how you use it.

Yeah, yeah. So, so as I like went through all of that and had this like, you know, epiphany of like, okay, we can retrain the immune response. That changed. Then my progress and all of a sudden it went from. And you hear this so much in the mold world of like, okay, you got to get out of the exposure, and you absolutely have to get out of the exposure. And then you just have to avoid mold for two years. And that's what my provider told me. I was like, I live in Maryland, dude. I can't avoid mold for two years. What are you talking about? Like, I treat people that are in moldy environments. I'm never going to get better from this. And I was like, I refuse to go down this route of I have to avoid it for two years before I'm going to be able to go like into a restaurant and not freak out about it. And that's really what drove this, like, nat stuff of trying to figure out, like, okay, what is each step that I'm doing this happening in my brain as soon as I smell mold or I'm in a moldy environment that is causing this to trip up.

And so that combined with the laser, I'm still not totally at a point where I can walk into like a moldy environment, but I can now treat moldy patients and have zero issues. I can be around anybody with perfume and I don't have issues.

And the, when I do have, you know, the mold hits, I can bounce Back within a couple of hours, and then I'm. I'm back and rocking and rolling again. I think, honestly, probably my goal is by November to be the point where I can go into any building and have no reaction. And that's what I'm working towards. We'll see if I. If I get that soon enough. But November was like, the first time that we made the connection of, like, oh, I think there's mold involved. So that's why I'm pushing for November. But I've seen so much progress already. There's zero part of me that doesn't think I'm going to be able to get to that point.

Wow, so you're working towards that. So, like, how frequent are your treatments of this? I guess, like, how frequently are you doing the IV blood stuff? Because you said that people started noticing after, like, 10 weeks. Was it 10 weeks or something? That it would. That it kind of had to refresh or something. So, like, how does this work? So you're working for a year. How. How are you, like, intervaling things? Like, what are you doing?

Yeah, so for our patients. So as a, you know, typical provider, I'm putting my patients ahead of what I should be putting myself on. So my patients are going through a much more regimented, better protocol than I'm putting myself through because I'm a bad patient myself. But we're doing twice a week with the IV laser for patients. I've done nine IV lasers by now, so I'm doing about once every two weeks. Just because that's when it lines up with. When I can get in with our nurse and I don't have patients.

And I do Nat. Like, I just had my wife treat me. And we're doing that again because. Terrible patient. Probably every two weeks for patients. We're doing every two weeks. Sorry. Twice a week. I'm doing it about every two weeks.

So is there a difference between, like, a SIRS patient versus an autoimmune patient versus a Lyme disease patient? Like, because all. It's all connected. Like, I know we're kind of making this mold through line, but, like, they're all connected, obviously. So how does that work differently between. Between it.

Yeah. So a lot of the autoimmune patients are still failing all of those immune things. So they're still failing our B cells, our T cells, our immunoglobulins, our TH1 pathway mast cells, all of that stuff. The difference is they aren't failing all the molds. I mean, a lot of them do fail the Molds because, you know, it's linked. But if they aren't a true, like, CRS patient, they're really just a rheumatoid arthritis patient, or they're really just a thyroid, thyroiditis patient. It's. We're going through and we're treating the immune cells and then we're doing the IV laser for the CRS patients, for the Lyme patients, we're going through and treating the immune response, and then we're going above and beyond and we're treating the molds, we're treating the different, you know, co infections with Lyme, we're treating Lyme, we're treating the mycotoxins. Like, we have all the little vials for individual mycotoxins. So we go down that route with different mold patients, but they're all getting IV laser. So what we're finding is about 10 IV laser sessions. Is this kind of the key point that you want to get to? You start seeing Progress at about 5, 10 is when the lights really start to turn on and you're like, all right, this is it. Like, I'm back, baby.

Wow. How many patients do you have? You know, sirs, let's, let's do, let's do the combination of autoimmune issues, mold issues, kind of all that. How many, how many patients that are kind of multi system, multi symptom stuff do you, are you working with on this currently?

I think we have, I don't even know.

Maybe close to 30, 30 to 40. And like, I just got. We just got the IV laser ourselves in May and started doing this in May, June. So I think our total, like CRS caseload right now is about 30 to 40 patients. Got it.

So is it too early now, since you got that to. To know sort of the success rate or how long it's kind of taking for people to get to that point?

I would say the ones that started with us in May and early June.

I think several of them, I think we will be done by the end of this month. There's two that pop into mind that are a little more complex, and I think it's probably going to take us into like the end of September before we're discharging them and moving forward. But several of the ones that started with us in the beginning were starting with us after already seeing other mold providers. And so we're getting them after these other things have failed, which is why, like, I'm so passionate about trying to get this out there. And it's not that we're greater than anything else out there. I just, like, don't stop. If you've done another protocol, like, keep trying all the things. And for those patients, they have one of them, we've. We're like, just about to discharge already. And he's gone through three other mold protocols and didn't see any improvement. So that's. That's been exciting to see that progress. I mean, the IV laser, we had a patient literally cut their C4A in half within three IV laser sessions. I mean, you know, C4A. I don't need to explain.

Yeah, I mean, you can. For somebody listening, go ahead and tell them real quick what it is. Yeah.

C4A is one of the biomarkers we run for CRS patients. Typically, we run TGF beta, C4A, MSH. Interesting side note on MSH, our melanocyte stimulating hormone that is almost universally low on CRS patients. And it's made in the thalamus. And the way mold impacts the thalamus is it actually down regulates the thalamus. It impacts your leptin receptors, all of that. What the IV laser does is increases thalamic function. So we're seeing MSH rising with the laser because of its impact on the brain, and specifically on the thalamus, of getting additional blood flow and oxygen to the thalamus so that the thalamus can light up on that functional mri, start to function at a higher level, and produce more msh. So your MSH isn't just tanks, you know, hanging out at the bottom.

Wow.

So your first people that came in in May, when you got it, you're kind of at the discharge point now, which means. So, like, the improvement from their point of view, I guess, from like, start to finish when they are discharged, what is sort of the quality of life for them now? Like, what does that look like?

So we aren't discharging until they can come in and say, hey, my brain fog is gone. I can remember things. I'm not having trouble with my word finding anymore. My energy levels are back up. And then we're going to start. Okay, well, let's see how you do in your more controlled environment. Let's start to ramp up that environment a little more. Let's try to go to the restaurants, to the hotels and see how you do. Then progress that on from an AET standpoint to see what is still tripping them up and what we need to fix from there. Got it. Because that's the, like the initial, just, like, getting them better is the easy Part, if you will. The harder part is, let's make you a, quote, normal person again. They can go into any environment you want without being worried that you're going to have all these adverse reactions because.

Trained to react in certain ways. So now it's like fixing that kind of trauma component of the body reaction.

Right, right, right.

Yeah. Super interesting.

I'll say. The other cool about the. The NAT is.

And this has been like, probably in the last, like three weeks, four weeks, we. I hadn't been treating mold specifically like mycotoxins and four molds for people that were still actively in mold. And about three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I was like, you know what? I have several patients that just are in a position where it's going to be another six months before they're out of the molding environment. And like, we got to figure out something. So even if it's going to make them a little sicker, let's try it. And across the board, every single person that I have treated for the molds and mycotoxins while they're still in it have gotten significantly better while they're in the moldy environment still and are able to be like, my brain fog is getting so much better. Which then allows them to start making the progress that they need to make to get out of the molding environment. But that's most exciting thing about this is that ability to help those people while they're still physically in the moldy environment, trying to figure out what to do, because that's the really debilitating part. And if we can help with that and get better brain function while they're in the environment, that's huge.

Real quick to expand on treating while. Is it that you're treating the mold stuff and more of a traditional protocol, or is it that you're starting treatment with somebody while they're in their environment, as opposed to saying, get out of your environment first, then we're going to treat you.

Sorry, treating, like treating specific molds through. But we were still like, you know, doing the binders and everything. But like, if you're in the environment, because ideally in nat, you want to avoid whatever it is that's triggering you for 25 hours. And I was like, these people are going to get really sick if I try to treat Aspergillus. And then they go back into their home, that is through the roof. With Aspergillus, it actually ended up being the opposite. Yeah, they got a little sick for 25 hours, but then their brain fog and all of that Was significantly better in that environment where Aspergillus was still super high or stacky or whatever it is.

Interesting. So it ends up being a way to kind of cope while you're trying to figure out next steps or at least reduce the impact that it's having while you're there.

Yeah, yeah.

Interesting.

Which that is for exciting.

I'm curious, do you have any sort of theory on like what the straw was that like broke the camel's back for you? Like it was just like it happened one day. Like, do you have any theory on what it was?

Yeah. That is a continual debate in our household and probably will be forever.

What, what triggered it. So I don't know if it was just one of those things like myositis can just come out of nowhere and I don't know if it was, you know, that just came out of nowhere or was it that our house eventually, like the mold levels in our house eventually started eating away at my mitochondria and my mitochondria started leaking mitochondrial DNA into the body, which is one of the theories on autoimmunity. Your mitochondrial membranes break down. Mitochondrial DNA, which is not supposed to be in the rest of the body, leaks into the rest of the body and triggers an autoimmune response because the body says, oh my gosh, what is this new DNA in here? We're going to attack it. And then it starts attacking the body. But I have no idea which one it was.

Yeah, it's just so. It's so crazy that it was so like snap of a finger.

Yeah, yeah.

I had a couple other questions writing down as we were going.

Back to the laser piece. Yeah, that's something that sounds like incredibly interesting you were talking about. I forget which wavelength it was, but that it helps to break down the hemoglobin that it. That builds up on the interior like artery walls and you know, veins and all that stuff. So are we talking like plaque? Are we talking like heart attack, clogged arteries, bypass surgery type stuff? And it helps to clear that out. Is that, is that the same thing or.

No, no, no. So it's just allowing more free flowing hemoglobin, which is what our binds do in your blood as we're doing the radiation. So that combined with the increase in nitric oxide is what helps get more of that. So not only are we opening up the arterials, we're also now allowing more hemoglobin to be processing and flowing through the body to grab onto those oxygen molecules and take it to tissues. Got it.

So what's happening is that I actually was just looking into something else that is something similar to this. It's like a. For when you're exercising, it's like an oxygen machine that like really oxygenates you and it opens up your arteries basically to allow blood flow to go a lot faster. And it's like obviously oxygen and blood for healing and everything. So we're saying the effect is more like. It's just kind of ballooning them open a little bit. So there's more going through as opposed to like breaking down, like any buildups or anything. Is that, Is that what I mean?

Not. Yeah, it's not like breaking down. Plaques got. Does have a lot of cardiovascular effects as well, but it's not breaking down like plaques, like cholesterol plaques on your arterial walls or anything like that.

Got it. What's the difference between like a. A 10 pass ozone IV treatment as opposed to like this laser then?

Sorry, say that again.

It's like an ozone 10 pass. Are you familiar with that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what's like the difference between an ozone 10 pass versus. And I guess maybe explain what that is too, versus having like the laser treatment like we're talking about?

That's a good question. I think the big difference is the impact on the immune response. So ozone does a fantastic job of killing things that are, you know, circulating around in your body. And we'll get, we'll get that with the uv, we'll get that with the blue. What ozone. What we don't get from ozone that we'll get with the laser is that increase in immunoglobulins, better leukocyte function, which are your white blood cells, and better overall immune function versus just physically trying to go in there and kill. Got it. Which trying to do. And it does it really well. I'm not, I'm not bashing ozone by anyway, any means.

Yeah, no, I know people that have talked about it, that have done it, that like kind of talk. But this is interesting. So just like to explain. So a 10 pass is basically like you're. You're taking blood out of your. Out of your body. There's like a connection or whatever. Blood's coming out and it's running through this ozonation process outside of your body. Right. And then the blood gets put back in the body and then the clean blood, if you will. So the ozone patient's cleaning it and the clean bug comes in. And then 10 pass just means they.

Kind of do it 10 times. Right.

Is that, Is that kind of works.

Yeah, so.

So the. The IV portion is still doing.

Cleaning, let's say killing, cleaning, if you will. But then it's also boosting immune response in addition to that.

Yeah, yeah. And I don't think there's any studies. I don't think there's anybody that's compared, like, side by side of the. How effective ozone is at killing versus how well the IV laser kills. But they both are killing. The ozone's doing it outside of the body as it's cleaning blood, essentially, and then putting it back in. The IV laser is doing it as it's circulating the blood, but then also able to stimulate the immune response.

Interesting. So one other thing, you kind of flew past it a little bit when you were talking about mycotoxin vials and that how the vials are created specifically for certain, you know, whatever the response is that you're trying. You're trying to cheat or treat. Excuse me. So what I'm sure you probably can't say, like, what goes into the vials. I'm sure, like, that's proprietary to whoever builds them or whatever. But, like, what's, what's a mycotoxin bio. What's the concept? You're somehow extracting a particular mycotoxin, which is a chemical, and figuring out, like, how that goes into one of these things to trigger your body's response.

Yeah, yeah. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to treat, like, trichosines individually or we're trying to treat.

You know, aflatoxins specifically, instead of just saying, like, okay, we're going to treat aspergillus, we're going to treat our penicillins, we're trying to treat mycophenolic acid. We're trying to go a little more specific to, like, okay, what are the things that are really tripping you up? What is triggering that immune response? So just freak out instead of say, like, okay, it's a toxin. We're going to process it and move on. And how are we making sure that the central nervous system and the immune response is actually paying attention to this toxin that's floating around in your body.

Interesting. So you kind of worked with. With the provider of NAT or whoever created it to create these compounds essentially, that. That are being used. Is that the idea?

Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't. It wasn't actually an AET that created these. I had to find somebody. I found a provider out in Washington who was able to create these. I was like, listen, I can't get These anywhere else. Can you make these? He's like, I think I can do it. And I was just like, okay, let's see. Let's see what happens. But I, time after time, get patients that fail specific ones. And I'm convinced that they are legit because I'll get someone that I know is coming from a house that, you know, scored really high on Aspergillus, and they'll fill all the aspergillus vials, and then they'll fail aflatoxins and be fine on, you know, some of the other molds. Or there'll be someone that is really struggling with penicillin, penicilliums, and then they'll fill my phenyllic acid, and we treat that. They get super sick, and then they get significantly better afterwards.

Got it. So you do molds, and then you do mycotoxins. They all have kind of their own.

Their.

Their own individual vials for that. Is it species level molds, or is it, like, how. How into it does it get?

Yeah, like, so we can go, like, mixes. So we'll do aspergillus mixes, we'll do penicillium mixes, but then we'll go, like, Asperger's penicilloides. We'll go for Aspergillus versus color. Aspergillosaurus color was the one that was, like, really game changer for me. But we just try to find, like, what are the big ones individual and treat for that one.

Specifically.

How do you determine that? Is it by looking at, like, a dust test or an Irving a house to see what's really high, or is it that you're kind of just checking their response to every vial they pull to figure out which one they're reacting to?

Both. So we'll go off of, like, okay, let's look at which one you're testing weakest on. Because sometimes literally, like, I'll put the vial in their hand, and before I even start to multitask them, they're going to be like, no, I already don't feel good with this one. So that's obviously one that is a much higher priority than one that like. Like, maybe. I mean, maybe if we used our imagination, you're a little weaker on this one. But if we compare that, then with, you know, an ermie or a dust test and say, like, okay, well, look, your Aspergillus penicilloides is through the roof in your house. You failed Aspergillus penicilloides. That's going to be the first one we're Going to treat on you. So it's just kind of putting the pieces together.

Really interesting. Okay, so.

You'Ve kind of figured out a way to put these things together and, and it seems to be showing promise and working. I'm sure not everyone listening to this lives where you live. Is that, like, how. How does someone go about figuring out, figuring this out if they don't have somebody who's doing this, like, nearby?

I think it takes. Take some dedication and it's going to take probably piecing together a team. So if you're not near me, and most of you aren't going to be trying to find someone who can do a laser, find someone who does an AET and talk to them about, like, hey, like, I'm coming to you because I have this mold issue. Like, can we work together to try to do some of this mold stuff? I know it might be outside of like, your typical mold or like your typical NAD protocol, but, like, this is where I'm at. Can you work with me? And you might have to piece it together. You might have to find someone that has, you know, I'm a big fan of the nanov and all of those. Like, you might have to get a vagal nerve stimulator on your own. Like, try to piece these things together, find the providers who will do different pieces of it. If you can't find somebody that'll do it all and find. Find what works for you. Got it.

Do you consult with anybody to help them? Not, I guess, maybe not patient and. Or practitioner, I guess, to help, like, work through this.

Unfortunately, because the licensing issues, I haven't figured out a way around that without crossing state lines kind of thing. But we do have patients that come in from out of state for at least like a, like the initial, and we can go through, like, hey, this is what it would look like. I'm trying to develop, and I'm not anywhere near there, but trying to figure out a way that we can help kind of coach patients through. Like, okay, we're going to buy you the vials, send them to you, you're going to do your own treatments, those kind of things. I'm still a ways away from that, but it's definitely something that I want to try to create because I have patients that are like, my sister in Oklahoma needs this, but she can't come in. You know, my brother's in Iowa and he needs this, that kind of thing. So hopefully in the future.

Yeah, I mean, that. That sounds really cool. And it feels like it needs to be that way. So, yeah, figure that out while you're at it.

All right.

This was a really cool, really cool conversation. Thanks for sharing your story and some of these other options that exist out there.

Anything else you feel like we should wrap up before we call it?

No, I would just, you know, urge you, really, from the bottom of my heart. Even if you don't think that it's mold, obviously if you're listening to this, you're already suspecting mold. But don't mark it off that like, hey, this doesn't fit the description that I've heard other people say. And this is just the way it is. I have this autoimmune thing. It's not going to get any better. Keep searching. Find IV lasers. Find places that do ozone. Be ready to go out of the country, whatever it is, because life is, is too short to live it following what your specialist is saying. So that's, that's really my, my message to everyone that I meet. And I get so many people that are like, ah, you know, it's just, I have this, I have this muscular condition and it is what it is. And I just, you know, it's my, my urging that you don't give up 100%.

Don't identify with what you have. Look at it as something that you can change and you can fix. Once you say, I have this, I am this, I am that, it becomes so much harder to look at it the way that you're talking about. Where do people find you?

So we're in Annapolis, Maryland. Elevate lifeclinic.com.

Our Instagram. I'm not really good on social media, but I try to get. Put some stuff out there. Elevate Life Clinic. Our is our Instagram as well. And yeah, I like, you know, if people want to email, I am more than help. Happy to try to help find other providers or whatever. I just can't physically give you advice, but I am more than happy to say, like, hey, this is somebody in your state has an IV laser. You might have to drive two hours, but this is who has it and help you out from that standpoint, if possible. Super cool.

Well, Dr. John, thank you so much for being on. Really, really appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

All right, bye.

Bye. All right, bye.

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