164: Redefining Primary Healthcare with Chloe Harrouche

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

All right, everybody, we are back for another fun filled day on Low Finders Radio. It's exciting.

Literally never intro the show like that before. Anyways, so today I've got a really cool guest on. I feel like there's going to be a lot of. What's the word I'm looking for? There's gonna be a lot of similarity, I. I'm guessing in sort of the background of maybe where she and I sort of started and then how those paths went on to different places but ultimately created something that's kind of similar for different reasons. And the, the solution that this person is going to talk through and what they've built is something that I've personally seen is so needed. And frankly, I'll start telling some stories about like the standard experience that like I have had in certain situations and just how stupid and ridiculous it is and how I think what she is doing is incredible. And it's a really cool trend that I think is going to continue to happen and really disrupt how healthcare is essentially delivered, but also the expectation of what healthcare really should be in the future. And so with all of that said, I want to introduce Chloe Harouche. She's the co founder and CEO of the Land Be, which is a really, really cool.

Alternative for primary healthcare is the way that I'm going to say it. Maybe that's not the way that you would say it, so I'll leave it off but, and let you explain it more in depth. But why don't you come in, tell us a little bit about you, the background, the Lambie, and then we'll get into it.

Thank you and thanks so much for having me. Great intro. Um, so, yeah, so the Lambie is a primary care members club. Um, I'll start off by sharing a bit of background on me and, and why I came to found the Lambe. Um, so I've always actually been in healthcare. I've been fascinated by medicine since I can remember. Math and science geek from the early days, studied bioengineering, was valedictorian, went on to pursue healthcare consulting and again just loved being around doctors. And so.

23 years old, I end up getting diagnosed with breast cancer out of the blue. And, you know, part of me was like, this is really cool. Like, I get to see what it's like to be a patient and, like, see what it's like to get chemotherapy and see what it's like to. To really work closely and collaboratively with my doctors. Like, there was a part of me that really enjoyed the challenge and the opportunity to have that much attention from physicians, but that quickly shifted.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

Real, real quick. I've never, ever heard someone say it like that. So let me. I'm just. You say that and just makes me wonder, when you got that diagnosis, were you, like, in your mind, like, oh, yeah, I got this handled. Because the way that you said that, you kind of, like, looked at it was almost like, this is a cool opportunity. I'm not so concerned about this, because I know I got this. And then now this. It opened this door for me to see X, Y, and Z. Was that, like, where your head was at, or so?

Yeah, great question. So I never thought that my life was on the line. Um, I. I knew that it would be a hard road ahead in terms of treatment and sort of coming out of this. This, you know, diagnosis. But I was never like, oh, no, what's going to happen to me? Um, I was mindful of it defining me, and that was something that I was very cautious around, especially because I didn't want it to, you know, people to associate the diagnosis with, with my identity. And when you're so young, I think that's definitely.

A fear, and that's very normal. But at the same time, once I started actually meeting with the doctors and I sort of accepted the diagnosis, that's when it started to pique my intellectual curiosity around, like, how all this stuff actually works. You know, like, you hear about it in movies, you hear about it in research and academia in a textbook, but you. You don't know what it's like to have toxin go through your veins until you actually sit in that chair. And so, again, part of me was like, this is really cool. Scary, but cool. And again, not. Not why I founded the Lambie by any means, but that was sort of like just an example of how obsessed I was with physicians.

And it quickly pivoted as I started to realize just how messed up the healthcare system really is. I, you know, was seeing some of the best specialists that New York City has to offer. Um, and yet what I found was that none of them were talking to each other. I, as A patient had to be my own advocate. I had to make sure that one doctor was in agreement with the other in terms of how my, you know, treatment was being handled and what the protocol was and what the, you know, expectations were around next steps and sort of the next phase of my life. And then treatment finished, and I sort of entered into this world of survivorship. And all of a sudden, you know, this desire and motivation, you know, manifested where I, I wanted to do whatever I could to minimize my risk of recurrence. And so I would go to my doctors and say, okay, like, we're done with treatment, but now what more can I do? How do I take health, the control of my health, back into my own hands? And that's when they were sort of like, sorry, but this is kind of outside the scope of, of my expertise. Like, I am trained to treat the problem, not prevent it from happening. And there are certain drugs and again, treatments that reduce your risk, like chemotherapy and radiation, they all are meant to not just treat but also reduce risk of recurrence. But when it came to, what should I be eating, how should I be eating, what should I be supplementing with, how should I be moving my body, how should I be leveraging these additional wellness modalities like acupuncture, to be able to, again, strengthen my health as. As much as I possibly can. And that's what I was very much left to my own devices. And so I, you know, I looked into primary care at that point, hoping that I would be able to find a quarterback, someone that could serve as a generalist and really help me sift through all the information out there and personalize a, you know, care plan for all intensive purposes, and it just didn't exist. Like, I was willing to pay whatever it took to get, you know, the, the concierge high touch, white glove experience, but no one was offering this, you know, wellness forward approach. No one took the time to really understand my motivations, my medical history, you know, do the research to figure out, okay, you had breast cancer. What can we do safely? So those were the, the, the motivations that made me realize, okay, primary care needs to be completely overhauled. People today, if you ask them who you go to for primary care, most often, they'll say, oh, I don't have a primary care. And, oh, by the way, what is primary care? So the fact that people don't even know what primary care is just goes to show how broken the system is. And so the reason why the founder of the Lambie was to make primary care relevant again and ultimately solve the very, very big crisis that we're seeing around the rise of cancer, diagnoses, chronic conditions, all of these, these issues that are preventable. And again, the way we structured the Lambie is as such, where you can actually see meaningful progress. And it's not just a matter of a prescription. It's really a 360 holistic approach to medicine.

Yeah. You know, to your point, I don't have a primary care doctor.

And the reason that I don't is because I don't really find much value from them. Um, if I get sick, granted, you know, I'm young enough to where I'm not like chronically sick all the time.

Right.

But, like, if I get sick and I really need to see something, I'll go, I'll just go to urgent care if I feel like it's like an acute thing that I need to get done. But whenever primary care comes up, it's so funny. Cause I've seen like, who's your primary care doctor? I literally don't even. I don't know, I just don't have one. Right. It, like doesn't even cross my mind is the experiences that I've had with primary care. And I think a lot of people too. And you know, the people that listen to this that are going to hear this conversation are people who are much more understanding of the limitations in primary care and really live in the functional integrative space as opposed to primary care space. Like, you go to your primary care and it's, yeah, let me run this blood test or something. Everything looks cool. Take this thing, you're fine. And you know, I'll share this story real quick. So, you know, my wife.

Had had some tests done and found out that she had a low white blood cell count. And she's also young, but she's like now very concerned. Because that could mean some pretty drastic things potentially. Right? Like that could be an indicator or some big things. And so start going down this road, like, okay, gotta. Gotta do some more testing. Gotta figure out what's going on. And so we go through the primary care system where we live, which I think is. We end up going to like one of the Hogue hospitals in Southern California. So it's like a big group out here. I don't know if they're nationwide, but they're big out here. And end up going to, you know, some, some blood draw specialist person who like, analyzes all that stuff. And they come and, you know, I have a general understanding of blood markers and stuff, just from everybody I talk to all the time, right? And so we're sitting in the room and she's going through all this stuff and basically says that there are some inflammatory markers that could be indicative of autoimmune disease. Um, but we don't know what, right? Like, this test wasn't necessarily to figure that piece of it out. And then, you know, now thinking like, okay, well, if that's going on, maybe that's contributing to, like, a lower white blood cell count because you have this chronic thing that's going on. Like, you're just like, kind of putting the pieces together in my head on what could be going on. And then. And then it gets to the end of the conversation, and the doctor's like, okay, see ya. And I was like, well, wait, like you basically just said, implied that there's an autoimmune disorder sitting here. What's the plan? Right? And the plan. And this is the core problem with all this stuff, which I'm so, like, glad that we're talking. The plan was, well, you feel fine, so we're gonna wait till you don't feel fine, and then when you don't feel fine, we're gonna try to figure out what the problem was. This was legit, the plan from this person. And I looked at them and I'm like, so you're telling me that you have a high suspicion that my wife has an autoimmune issue, and your plan is to wait for her to develop Hashimoto's or fill in the blank of what this is and start suffering of that thing and showing all the symptoms to then come back to you for you this. For you to say, okay, I guess maybe now I'll figure it out. Even though I knew that this thing was sitting here, we could have looked and figured this out a while ago. And the person looked at me like. Like, I just punched her in the face. I feel like. And it was like, like, what. What are you doing? And we just, like, got up and laughed. I was like, all right, we're like, this. This is the last time we'll ever be here again. But like, this happens to everybody.

No, it's. It's. It's because medicine is. Was developed to treat it. It wasn't developed to say, okay, we have a hunch. Now let's try to work backwards and get you back to baseline and then help you optimize. And the problem is that most doctors don't have time to work with people who aren't in that state of Acute crisis. And so they just say, you know what? Just keep on doing what you're doing. And when you get to that state of acute crisis, then come back to me, and then that's when I'll know how to help you. And instead, what they should be doing is saying, okay, I may not know how to help you, but there are people out there that can help you. And let me tap into that network and point you in the right direction. Because I think the problem today is that patients expect that doctors know everything. And unfortunately, the reality is they don't. And so that's why the Lamb's model isn't designed to have doctors span their wings to achieve everything. It's actually how do we complement their skill set with other practitioners who can provide you with the resources you need to optimize? So. So. And it's not just a health coach, it's a registered dietitian. It's a member advocate, It's a physician assistant, it's a clinical coordinator. Like, there's so many things that go into creating a cohesive, collaborative, comprehensive care plan. And unfortunately, not many practices are willing to go down that route because it's expensive and it's not common. And so most. There is also a learning curve to.

Explaining and getting people on board with it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's actually something I really like about your setup. We act. We actually mirror the same concept. I just. I just really like how you showed it on your site. I was like, I'm gonna steal this. Cause I think this. The visual of it looks really cool. But the. So when you see it come up in, like, three months, just know that I took it. But the idea of having people, like, the way that we look at it is, like, every step that you're kind of moving through the flow. With us, there's a certain. There's a certain individual skill set that's needed for that particular step in the process. And so instead of us saying there's exactly, you know, what you just said, here's your one person who we expect to be perfect at everything from stage one to stage ten or whatever it is. It's like, no, here's this individual whose job is to be the best in the world at this. We're not telling them to be great at everything else. We're telling them to be the best that there is at this one thing. And as you move, you then get connected with the next person who's the best in the world at doing this thing. So as you need that, it's there for you. And there's not like this obligation for one individual to, to have basically an unrealistic expectation of knowledge base and history and experience and like all of this stuff, right? So the way, you know, for everybody, you know, listening, you're not seeing this. So basically the way that on the lambda, when they enter, there's a page on here that says, you know, kind of see your primary care team, and it has like the circle in the middle and that's you. And then it's showing the different, the different members of the team kind of in a circle around you and, and what their role in the process is and kind of how they all work together. And I think when you're talking about reimagining and re. Envisioning what primary care looks like, which is kind of how I see what you guys are, are putting together, and I imagine that's sort of where your head was at, I would assume, when you were doing this. Like, this is such a big piece of it, as opposed to come in, see your doctor, and then it's like a brick wall and then you just like, leave.

There is one piece of, of this sort of equation that, that we need to emphasize, which is the importance of collaboration. Right. So, yes, each individual on the care team is specialized in something unique and distinct, but in order for it to be a cohesive effort and to be most efficient for the patient, those individuals need to be talking at all times. And what ends up happening in most health systems is that each specialty is siloed, and then it becomes the patient's responsibility to connect the dots. And what we want to avoid is that extra work. And so the way that our model is structured is you're actually never. Well, you're rarely meeting with one individual on your care team. You're always meeting with at least two. So our baseline visit, you're meeting with the physician and the wellness advisor at the same time. And the reason for that is because we want that collaboration to be taking place alongside the patient, not behind the scenes and then actually not making it happen. We want to actually show patients that. That dialogue, that brainstorming that needs to take place in order to also bring you into the, into the conversation and give you an opportunity to, you know, really sort of take control over your health. Have a seat at the table. So that's also just something to keep note of in terms of how we think about primary care being that sort of core nucleus. And even when we think about the referrals that we make outside of the Lambie, it's you know, how do we take the extra step to make sure that we understand what that specialist is recommending and we're going to be the quarterback in consolidating all that information and helping you decide what your next steps should be.

Yeah, I love that. And again, I just think this is like a fundamental shift in how things have happened before. Like this whole, the whole idea that doctors don't talk to each other, which everyone has experienced, I feel like, um, I actually feel like that contributed to my dad passing away. He had a lot of stuff going on and then he was placed into.

He had a, he had a certain like, procedure or thing that was done to him in response to one of the, his problems, but it should not have been done because he had another symptom that was sitting there and by doing this exacerbated it and caused a stroke. Wow. Like, this is, this is literally what happened. It happened because nobody talked to each other and you know, not everybody. And listen, me too, like, I, you know, I feel like I failed at this point of not seeing that. Right. And for someone to feel like, and then to feel like it's like kind of your fault in a way, to feel like you have to babysit the doctors to make sure that they don't make a massive fuck up that kills somebody. I mean, right. That, that is, it just shouldn't have to be like that. Right. And I, you know, this, this is one of those things that, you know, something like, that stays with you. Right. Like, God, man, if I just had not been so preoccupied on this piece and I was putting the pieces together and I was.

Yeah.

And by the way, this is not the way.

Think about how often when dealing with a diagnosis people have to take time off work just to figure it out. And that's where for us, you know, we're really pushing the envelope around corporate partnerships because ultimately employers are incentivized to keep their employees healthy too. Because if they don't, then that means that they have to take leave of absences. They have to literally put all of their time and efforts into just sorting through and hustling through the healthcare system. And that's, that's not how anyone should be spending their time. So, you know, it's almost our job as primary care to alleviate that burden from, from patients and help them figure out who needs to be on their care team, how they're going to make it happen, you know, how everything's going to stay coordinated. And again, it's, it's unfortunately not the status quo. And I don't see it becoming the status quo anytime soon. But that's part of the reason why we've had to operate outside of the traditional insurance model and do things our own way.

Yeah, I mean, frankly, the fact that it's not going to be the status quo for a while is what's going to allow you to continue to do what you're doing. Right. Because there's going to be this gap, this need for what's happening here and people are going to find it and you're going to continue to grow just like you have been over the last several years. So.

Eventually, you know, people are.

I mean, I wish it didn't either.

And by the way, you know, the other thing to note is like, even when it comes to integrative functional medicine, like that has also started to exist in a silo. And I think the, the new thing that we're seeing is like how do we also bridge the gap between eastern and western modalities, between traditional medicine and alternative therapies? Because that's the role of primary care and not enough doctors in the traditional side of things are receptive to integrative eastern modalities. So how do we help bridge that gap? And I, and again, like, I think why we developed the model the way we did, it's because we didn't want patients to have to have their specialist for functional medicine and then they're specialist for when they get sick and then they're a specialist when they have a GI issue and then another, you know, wellness advisor for all the coaching that they need all the way and who's going to help them with their sleep and who's going to provide them with, you know, these experiences outside of the doctor's office to help keep their them motivated. All the content that they're trying to just grab at through podcasts, through forums and blogs and influencers and social media. I mean we need to sort of sift through that on behalf of our members and create this one stop shop.

That is a really, really great transition, I think into where I was hoping that we were going to go with this, which is getting more into that integrative functional mindset of medicine. Right. The, you know, the listenership here, most of them are living in that space. Right. So there's some sort of chronic health condition that's going on, whether it's, you know, genetic predisposition or there's a, you know, there's Lyme and there's co infections and oh, by the way, I'm exposed to mold in my house. And oh, by the way, I've got, you know, mast cell activation syndrome and I've got this autoimmune thing and all this stuff. Right. Um, you know, I think argument can make a lot of that is kind of coming from not as many different things. And there's root causes to some of these things that, that let them cascade like that. But when we're talking through the concept of like primary care, so you say, you know, traditional and then eastern.

How, how does that play, like as someone going through your process? Because the, the integrative functional mindset of getting towards root cause and, and really working that way forward. Right. I think personally like incredibly important to understand root and drive from there. So like how, how does somebody, let's say somebody comes in and they have, you know, Hashimoto's. And it's not just that they have it, but it's also trying to understand why they have it, where it came from, what the triggers are, kind of all this stuff. Like what does a process around something like that look like?

So our onboarding process is pretty intensive in that we have an 80 minute initial visit where you're meeting with your physician and your wellness advisor to do a holistic intake. So we're looking at your medical history, your family history, your genetic history, any, you know, existing symptoms that you may be experiencing. We do comprehensive lab work so we, you know, extending the panel beyond what a traditional doctor is looking at. Sometimes we'll also suggest advanced diagnostic, depending on what symptoms you've shared. We'll obviously do a physical exam in vitals as well. But that gives us a really, really good starting point to, to gather as much information as we can. We also pull in outside records from previous specialists that you've seen so that we can really get a full picture of your health. Once we get the results from your labs, we, you know, piece all this information together and we ultimately create our own narrative. We sit as a team every day and talk about our patient cases and figure out how we want to approach all this information to create a coordinated care plan. Once we have an idea of what we want to do, we'll sort of track all of that information into our, into your member app, so you'll see it come through as tasks. So we sort of organize all of your next steps based on buckets. So we look at your cardiovascular health, we look at your metabolic health, your nutrient panel, your hormone panel, and we try to provide recommendations and next steps based on what we assess, you know, where the deficiencies are. Sometimes that will involve a specialist referral, sometimes it will involve a change to your diet, sometimes it will be, you know, tapping into this podcast. But we really help you, you know, empower you with all of the tools and resources that you need to dig a layer deeper and then be able to provide that, that solution oriented mindset. I think when it comes also to functional testing, that's where we can recommend advanced diagnostics. Um, and we are thoughtful in terms of, you know, not just recommending every single advanced diagnostic out there, even if you say, you know, just run every test on me, because these are on of out of pocket costs and we want to be able to prioritize because oftentimes when you do so much testing at the same time, you end up finding out, okay, I have so much work to do, where do I even get started? It's so overwhelming that you just close the door and you walk away. So we try to help you sort of game plan, what your health plan is going to look like over the coming year and when we phase it out into quarters. So for the first quarter of membership, you have these goals. This is what we're going to work on. These are potentially the supplements you're going to take. These are the specialists that you're, we want you to see. We're going to book you those appointments for you. These are the diagnostics you want to do, whatever, whatever it may be. Then three months later, we have you come back in for repeat lab work on any of the things that we're actually working on. And that way we can monitor to see how much these, these interventions are actually moving the needle. And then based on that feedback that we get from your labs, we'll pivot. Right. So we'll either say, okay, this is working, let's continue, or this is not working, let's move in a different direction. So we're helping you constantly troubleshoot and we're also helping you again, figure out how to identify the root cause. And sometimes it's trial and error and sometimes, you know, there's a very clear next step that we're, we're often shocked that no other doctor has recommended this to this patient. So really, really varies in terms of who the patient is, who they've seen before, what their strategy has been. And so we really try to meet patients where they're at.

Yeah, that all makes sense. You know, as we're talking through a lot of this, there are so many.

What's, what's the word I'm looking for here? There's Kind of like innovations in the health space going on in healthcare, I should say. And even proactive, like, like patient.

Like things that we can do as patients on our own.

Yeah, like direct to consumer.

Right. There's like a lot of. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Exactly. There's a lot out there. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, I've been interested in. I know a lot of people that have, like, looked into certain things and I, I kind of wonder like, like where your head is at as someone who really gets all of this, on how some of those either are valuable, maybe not so valuable, maybe compliment something, you know, you know, that you might be working through as well. Things I'm thinking are stuff like, like biome.

Something like, like 10x health where they're doing, you know, gene testing and then, and then creating like customized supplement plans. So bioma, it's kind of that similar stuff. Like, do you feel that there's a place for like that sort of AI driven analysis and then customization on that front that complements something like what you're doing, or do you feel like what the Lambee essentially takes that and it sort of integrates it into your process? Anyways, because I've been looking at a lot of these things. It's also interesting and I think part of what you're saying before is that you dive into all these different podcasts and there's all this information out there and there's a lot of things that seem really cool and interesting and it's like, all right, do I really need this if I'm doing this? Like, how do you put a puzzle together and kind of maximize the technology that exists out there along with the, you know, human connection, you know, that comes along with kind of like a one on one relationship?

Well, you've sort of answered the question, right? So I think it's great that these innovations are happening, but it's a matter of how you are capturing that data and then applying it to yourself and also how you're prioritizing your spend. Right. Because if you have unlimited dollars, then great. Yeah, go get every test out there and, you know, figure out what your deficiencies are and then find yourself a doctor who's going to help you sort through them. But more often than not, our members are coming to us being like, I don't want to spend more than I have to, but I do want to make sure that where I'm spending is going to move the needle and is in an area where I'm. I'm able to optimize. So that's where the Lambe really helps people sift through, you know, what the available options are. We make sure that we're staying on the cutting edge so you don't have to take the time to be constant really researching what's out there. But then more importantly, the aftermath of those results. And that's where I think the biggest gap is when it comes to these direct to consumer products is we're leaving so much into the patient's hands in terms of how they're supposed to handle this information and what they're supposed to do with it. And actually we're seeing that so many of these companies are coming to us being like, we've hit a wall. We've hit a wall because patients are getting this information and then they are coming to us being like, okay, now what? And we don't have an answer. And so we need to partner with companies like yours to be able to make sure that we have a solution to offer to patients when they're given the this diagnosis or this, you know, these results. So what we like to do is say, okay, don't necessarily just let any marketing tactic, you know, scratch that itch, come to us. We will help you decide whether or not it's worth your time and energy and money. And we'll also be the ones again quarterbacking all the information that we gather. Pernovo actually is, is an amazing example of this where, you know, they are a preventive imaging tool for people who are just like, you know what, I want an MRI and I want a full body mri. I want to know what's going on in my body. And no doctor is going to prescribe this to me unless I have some concerning symptom. And we're sort of in this in between where we're not recommending that every patient goes and gets an mri, but we want to make sure that if you do that, we are already, you know, working with you. We, we have a history, we have an understanding around your behavioral idiosyncrasies to make sure that whatever information you know, comes out of the scan, we can help you coordinate next steps. So it's really important to make sure that you have established relationships with primary care and again, a good primary care, not just any primary care, so that when that information comes your way, you actually know what to do with it and have the support that you need to figure it out. Because oftentimes it's not a clear cut answer.

Yeah, I think that's there's a few really good things that you're bringing up that I've always wanted. Right. And it's so interesting that we're talking about it. I have been interested in understanding, hey, I want to know mineral deficiencies. I want to know X, Y. You know, there's certain things that I've been interested in knowing, right? And you go to the doctor and they're like, oh, we can't. We can't even run that for you if you wanted to. Like, what world am I living in where I'm like, I will pay for this thing. Just let me have it. And they're like, no, yeah, it's crazy. Like, I. I just. It's just crazy to me. So it. It's really interesting to be able to have that per. You know, that. That quarterback that you are able to go in. Now, listen, there. There are. And you're right, there are people just like, listen, I just want to know this thing. I just want to know. So let me have the ability to know that. Right? And I think that that's a good thing to have. And, you know, as far as. As the partnerships, and you kind of mentioned what we, you know, what we've been working on behind the scenes a little bit too, is that.

Having the ability to identify that, hey, this is an issue. So for this case, hey, we think that there's a mold exposure issue going on here. And then not just saying, all right, go figure that out, right? But to. But to proactively say, hey, listen, we're going to bring in the best people that exist to help you figure that out, and you, again, become the quarterback to help guide that process and probably just make people's lives easier. And I think the one thing that happens with doctors is that we, as the patient, historically, for sure, I feel like it's going away a little bit, but I think that the model that you're creating starts to bring this back a little bit, put all of our trust in the doctor, you know, 20, 30 years ago, right? It's just like, you're the doctor, you know, all right? And whatever you say, that's the thing, and that's continued, but now we're learning that they don't really know all. And now if. If you're putting your trust in somebody and they don't have the humility to say, I don't know this thing, right?

But then to go out and say, I may not know this thing, but let me find the person that does know this thing, and let me just act as a bridge to connect the Dots for you. Because ultimately I want you to thrive and be healthy. And if I can't answer this thing that's needed, then, then if I truly am here for you, then I need to help you figure out how to get that answer.

Right.

Right. And that's been missing for so long. And like, just in the conversations with you guys behind the scenes, we can see that that's how you look at stuff. And you know, on our end, just very thankful to be somebody who can fill that need for you guys, you know, in the area that, that we specialize.

Yeah, totally. I, I think you sort of hit a really good point, which is doctors. There, there are reason, there's a reason why doctors are so respected. Right. They went through years and years of training and education, so there, there is a really, really significant.

Play in our lives when it comes to health and wellness. But with that said, I think the current model of healthcare is, is structured in a way that doesn't give doctors any room for growth. They have to only practice what they know, and they don't have time to widen their skillset. They don't have time to research what they don't know, and they don't even have time to point you in the right direction if they aren't willing to or don't have time to do that research. So they're really, really burnt out and strapped for time. And so the question is, how do we change the model? Um, and I think that that's a really, really important thing to note is it's not the doctor so much as it is the model. Because I think there are a lot of incredible doctors out there, and unfortunately, they're not in a position to best support you because their hands are tied.

Yeah, you're a hundred percent right. And, and I think, you know, frankly, why. Why doctors should be so appreciative of you is because. And I've seen this too. There are plenty. And you just said it. There's plenty of very, very smart doctors out there. But there's a difference between understanding how to heal somebody and be a doctor, as opposed to setting up a system and a process and a business structure that allows them to the space to be able to do it. And just because you're really good at healing somebody doesn't mean you really understand how to.

Value your time during a day, how to create space, how to create process that allows these things to go on. And so, you know, for a practitioner, I would imagine. I'm not one, obviously, but as a practitioner who has not figured that out which most of them haven't. Right. That's why most of them feel strapped and stuff, stressed all the time. And exactly what you described is going on to have a place and have a, have someone to come and say, hey, listen, we've, we've created this ecosystem that allows you the space to treat people the way that you really feel like that they want to be treated. I personally think most doctors want to be able to treat people the right way. They just don't have the bandwidth, you know, and so it's this level of support that you provide. And I think it's just a general shift in business in mindset in the 2000 and twenties that it's not always about volume.

It should never be about volume. Right.

I feel like historically it has been. I think there's the shift that's going on is that it's about quality versus quantity. And if the quality is so good, the quantity is going to come on its own. And I think there's just been this shift in and some of like the forefront thinkers in business on understanding that it's not about just like maxing capacity at every minute of every day, day, but allowing some air to breathe. It's where ideas come, that's where learning comes, that's where support comes. And then inherently you're going to get flooded in. And then you just scale the model that you have that allows people to still have bandwidth. And like the way that you're setting this up, I think just makes so much sense.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And again, it goes back to the insurance model. The reason why doctors are prioritizing volume over quality is because that's how insurance reimburses. It's based on how many procedures you book, it's based on how many visits you have. So why would they spend more than eight minutes with you if they can instead fit, you know, 10 patients in an hour? It's, it's, it's just math.

Yeah, it is. So it's the idea of like they're charging per treatment as opposed to monetizing things a little differently to where you're not incentivized to push people through. Like an assembly.

Exactly right.

And I think, yeah, it's, it's so interesting because, you know, we've been looking at things like this in certain aspects of our process flows, not necessarily the money component specifically, but just like, what is the inherent.

Incentive that someone feels in our business at that point in time and does that align with our values? Right. We're really trying to strengthen line like why would someone choose to make action A or action B? And does that align with, with how they should? And if their, their reasoning and kind of the, the, you know, call it incentive even though it might not be financial incentive, but like their incentive for doing it doesn't align with like the true mission, then it's our job to come in and say, hey, we need to reevaluate like how success looks for you. So that way you're aligning with the overall mission of the business. And it's, it's something I actually, this whole concept doesn't really get talked about a lot. Cause I feel like a lot of these podcasts don't go into like business specific type of concepts like this. But I think it's really important because it helps people understand the thought process behind how you're structuring flow and everything. And then like, oh like the mindset is there, like they're trying to figure this out. This is why they structure this way. It's all kind of shaped like consumer centric as opposed to like something for sure.

I mean people ask all the time why we're a membership model, why we don't take insurance. And this is why, because we are. Our primary goal is to realign incentives between patients and their providers. And the best way to do that is by removing cost out of the equation. We don't want our doctors to think about how to maximize volume in a day. We want them to think about how do I provide the best quality care to this patient so that they feel so, so good at the Lambie. They feel supported, they feel heard, they feel that they're pro, that they're making progress and that ultimately translates into retention. So our primary goal is to keep you long term and, and that's ultimately how we both succeed, right? Because when you're a long term patient, we have a full health history on you. We, we've really gotten to know you. We can better personalize our recommendations based on what we know about your lifestyle and your habits and you know, what you're willing to tolerate and what you're not willing to tolerate. And so I think that, you know, again, it's a very much a win win model. But most of health care is not thought of from that perspective. It's, it's, you know, doctors are not even in control and patients are definitely not in control. It's the payers and everyone just, you know, bends over backwards to make sure that they're going to get the reimbursement that they want from insurance.

Yeah, it's, it's the motivation behind actions. And, and I actually believe this in like everything, not just like what we're talking about here, but I mean, you're high. Whoever you hire to do something for you.

Right?

Right. Whoever you're asking something of. Right. What is their motivation in giving you the advice they're giving you and making the decision they're making for, for you, like, whatever it is, if we take a step back to think about, well, what is truly motivating this person to tell me what they told me. Right. And if you think about it, you could, you could start to understand where some of these things are. And then you realize that, like, some of the, the advice and the direction and the, you know, the expertise and like, all the stuff that, you know, you feel like you're getting, like, how much of it is truly a hundred percent in your benefit. With you at the forefront of the thought of why that that advice was given, you know, like, like I see this all the time in our world, you know, with like landlords, you know, so if you're renting, like, the landlord's motivation is not to find all the problems in your apartment. It's not, they're not motivated by that. Why? They literally lose money if they do that. So if they come to you and say, no, everything is cool. We have this, that and happen, and this can't happen. Like, what's the motivation behind that comment that they just gave you? It's to diffuse you so you don't cause a problem that's going to cost them money. Right. And if you just think about, like, how people are motivated, which is kind of the frame of this whole talk, like, it helps you sort of weed out the people that truly are trying to, like, help and support you, as opposed to the people who are just trying to like, you know, check their boxes and make their money or whatever whenever their driver is.

And I think what's actually just going back to the point on prevention, what's so interesting about that word motivation is, yes, we have to think about the motivation of the providers because that is essential to providing best in class care. But we also have to think about the motivation of patients. And I think with most of us, right, like, health ebbs and flows. There are times in our life where we're like, you know what? I want to prioritize, you know, think about New Year's. I want to prioritize my wellness. I want to get back into shape, I want to lose all this weight and Then, you know, March, you know, rolls around and all of a sudden, like, you forget that you ever set those intentions. And so our job, being a membership practice, is to think about how do we maintain high levels of motivation? Because if we don't have motivation, then you might as well stop talking about prevention, because no one's going to do the things that they need to do. So we not only think about how do we provide you with the tools and the resources to act when that motivation is there, but how do we even think about the root cause of motivation and identify ways in which to inspire you to challenge yourself into exploring new interventions, new modalities, new opportunities for you to extend beyond your baseline. From the very, very beginning, before we even launched our events, like, we have incredible panel events with some of the best thought leaders, specialists, industry experts, brands in the space to be able to give our members a better understanding of what's out there. And so this sort of, sort of feeds into the idea of, like, how do we cut through the noise? How do we actually bring members into the conversation and empower them with all the information that they need to be able to make better health choices? And so we're not saying, okay, we're giving you this information now go act and do it. We're saying, here is what's out there. Now let's talk about how to prioritize, because there's just, there's too much for everyone to do. And we realize that it's overwhelming and you're not going to go from 0 to 200. So, so where is that that balance for you? And the, and the topics that we choose are really geared towards empowering our members on interventions that they're interested in learning more about or that they should know more about. So oftentimes these are, you know, things like metabolic health and, and the connection between metabolic health and hormone health, or, you know, how to boost your sleep quality, how to, you know, manage inflammation, and, you know, basically topics that we know our members are curious about. And it may not be in their care plan, but it is a way for them to get their juices flowing and say, you know what, maybe this is something else that I could tap into and let me go back to my care team and see if it's worth me investing my time and energy right now or if I have too much on my plate and should sort of defer this to next quarter. So that's one thing that we do. And then another thing is just constantly putting out new content, whether it be guides, lists, resources that our members can tap into whenever they, they, they feel like it. We have a dedicated members only page on our site that allows members to just browse through, you know, content that we've established and curated to really help them, you know, take their health to the next level whenever, whatever that may be. So those are two very easy examples. And then obviously it can, can go on and on, but want to just leave you with at least those two.

Yeah, it's so cool. I think the age that we're in right now, people are more apt to consume stuff like that if it's easily accessible for them. I think the ease is the big piece of it. Right. As long as it's easy for me to see it, I'm interested in looking at it. And what you're setting up is exactly how you kind of work with people in today's time.

Yeah. And then trust is the other really important thing. Making sure that you have establish trust and you know where this information is coming from and you have a team to go to with that information and say, can you personalize this to me?

Yeah, 100%. Well, I think that in everything you're doing with your members, I can only imagine that you are establishing a great amount of trust in the ability that you have to help navigate through a lot of what's going on with them.

Thank, thanks so much for taking time. We're, we're kind of running up on the end here, but I'd love to share with everyone, you know, how they can find out more information about the Lambe, how they can possibly work with you guys, like, what's, where do they go to check this out.

So our website definitely has a ton of information. Just the lamby.com and there is where you can book a consult call to just explore whether our membership could be a good fit. How it works, how it works for you, specifically based on where you live, what your medical history looks like, what your goals are, and then we can go from there. So it is a very personalized onboarding experience. And it starts with that console call.

Awesome. Well, if any of this sounded like, whoa, I really wish that I've had this. Go do the console call. I always say this about us too. The console calls are free. Go to a console call. Like, why are you not doing this? Literally, literally costs you nothing.

Yeah. Yourself. Get yourself out there.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's a lot of what, what we need to do is just kind of allow ourselves and give ourselves permission to take a little action on something, even if we don't know exactly how it's going to go. Weigh out the risk of what that action is. And if the risk is, like, straight up nothing, then, like, why not try, right? Like, what else are you doing?

Totally.

So, anyways, Chloe, thank you so much for taking time to chat through.

Everything with us today. I think there's a lot of really cool information, not only about, like, how you guys work, but also, like, mindset stuff, new approaches, and how the new norm really should look in today's world in healthcare. And I think that can hopefully help reshape how people are evaluating their situation. So thank you so very much.

No, thank you so much for having me. It was. It was really fun.

Awesome. All right, we'll talk to you soon.

All right, have a good one. Bye.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment and subscribe and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.