32: Pre-Remediation Coordination... a real conversation recap

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey, everyone, here we go for another day. I am on my way to an appointment this morning. Actually, I'm on my way to the dentist first. And kind of side note, but if you're in the same Instagram circle that I am, in terms of the people that I follow, and I think a lot of the folks that follow me probably follow similar medical experts and doctors and different things like that.

I feel like a couple weeks ago, and I don't really know, like, how these cycles work, but it seemed like everybody was talking about the same thing in some way. And it was your oral health, like, what's going on with your teeth and how that can impact your gut and your microbiome and all this stuff. And about, I don't know, two years ago or a year ago, I don't even remember. I've definitely been dropping the ball on how quickly I need to be doing this stuff. But I found that I actually had. When I was a kid, I had a mouth trauma. I got hit in the face with a baseball. I had teeth knocked out. I had root canals. I had this whole thing. And so, you know, a bunch of years have gone by. And I went to the doctor at one point when I was first starting to try to look into what was happening in my body from all the inspections I go to. So obviously, I was concerned with mold and mycotoxins, which I do have mycotoxin issues. But I was. I was like, you know what? I should look into my teeth, too. Like, I've read this in Dave Asprey's book. I've heard a bunch of different doctors talk about it. I should look into this. And I did. And sure enough, I had, like, bacterial infections in my mouth from the root canals. And so I started down this long process of getting that all fixed, basically. And it takes a long time because you have to, like, pull teeth and then you have to clear out the infection and you have to let your. Basically your mouth grow back, essentially, after they remove stuff. It's a lot of stuff you have to do. So anyways, I'm on the tail end of that right now. I'm going into the dentist this morning. I'm probably going to be there for like two hours.

While they mess around and pull things around and do stuff in my mouth, which sounds awesome. I've actually had to do these, these multi hour visits many times. So I think I'm closing in. Anyways, that's where I'm going. So I have a drive. Ironically enough, I used to live in LA and I was 15 minutes from this guy. And now that I live in Orange County, I am now an hour plus away from, from the dentist. So I have some time to share with you guys on the drive.

One of the things that I was wanting to talk about throughout last week as I was talking to clients and things was I had one client that did a lot of what I asked or what I advised them to do. And I was actually really happy with how they were approaching stuff and so I just wanted to share that with you guys. So this is a client that was in Illinois and we had gone through the home, found some things. So we were talking to them initially I was talking to them about remediation and how to try to look for some, you know, for some remediators and different things you can use to screen them.

And also how to make sure they're on the same page with what the post testing is going to look like so they understand the process. Here's the thing with a lot of remediators, they, they don't really read our reports and I don't think they really read a lot of people's reports, but they especially don't read ours because ours are very long. And the reason they're very long is because they're very specific and detailed and exactly what we want to happen and where and how and all that stuff. And I think when they get a report that's like, you know, 70 pages long, they look at it, they're like whatever man. We know how to do our job. And I think a lot of times that's what happens. And so I always try to talk with my clients, especially those that, that work with us through Weinspect, with which is my assessment company that's nationwide.

The people that work with us through Weinspect because we don't have local remediators that we know, right. Because we're servicing the whole country. So there's no way for us to create relationships in every city, in every state and vet remediators. I mean, that takes a lot of time it could take. I mean, in la, where we are, we have one company that we've been using for several years that really understand what we're trying to do. Then another one that I just brought on recently. But I mean, that's it. We have two. The business itself has been in business out here for like 15 years. So. And we have two companies that we feel comfortable even giving their names out. So, you know, imagine trying to do that in every city. It's just not possible. So I work with our clients that are in other places to try to coach them on questions to ask and things to do. A couple of those highlights. The first one is if a remediator comes in and they're trying to pitch you on a scope of work that is different than the report that you were provided. And I'm just going to speak from my own experience, right, Because I don't know what reports other inspectors put out there. So I'm going to be referring to my reports and things like that, just so you guys understand that. But ultimately, if you're paying for a consultant to come in, they should be creating a report, a scope of work for you. You. The remediator doesn't do that. The remediator executes that plan. So.

If the remediator comes in and they're saying that you don't need to do all the things that Brian told you you need to do, that's immediate red flag. Don't hire these guys, right? Because.

Basically what they're trying to do is they want to win the job. That's how they make money, is by getting.

By getting projects, right? That's how they make their money. And a really easy way to land a project is to come in at a lesser dollar amount for the estimate than your competitors. Well, how do you do that if you're trying to execute the same plan, right? And so, you know, one option, you try to shave a bunch of costs and see, you know, if your margins are less or whatever, they're not going to do that. What they're going to do is, is come in and they're actually going to pitch less work. If they're pitching less work, then the dollar volume is going to be less and they're theoretically going to come in lower than any competitors because they're probably assuming the competitors are pitching the full amount of the work. So that's one thing that they do a lot, which is why I tell my clients, if someone's coming in and immediately saying that you don't need to do all this stuff.

You didn't hire them for that. You hired them to come in and execute a plan. And so if they're trying to change your plan, then that's a problem. So that's the first red flag I give to my clients when they're talking to remediators. You know, another thing that needs to be brought up when you're talking to your remediators is letting them understand. And I did a whole episode on this, so I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but letting them understand that you do have a third party inspector consultant that is going to be looking at their work and retesting their work and that the job is not done when the remediator thinks it's done. The job is done when the consultant comes in and retests the area and verifies that it's done. So that is a big thing you want to make sure is in the contracts and is understood. Because if they come in and they do a crap job and then your consultant comes in and retests for the post testing and finds out that there was a lot of problems, they say, well, you know, we did what we were supposed to do and we think it's fine. Right? Because that's what they're gonna say. They're gonna. I was at a project once where I did surface testing in a post, which I'll talk about in a second. And they were like, well, you know, surface tests. We all know surface tests aren't real. I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? This, this is the guy. This. You know what they wanted? They wanted to only do air testing because they know that air testing and post remediation situations passes the majority of the time. The reason it passes is because they're running an air scrubbing unit in the containment the entire time that they're doing the work. They're running an air scrubber in there after the work. You have this very enclosed contained space. Even if there are sources of mold growth in there, a lot of times that's not going to show up in an air test because the air is continuously being cleaned like every second. So if you go in and do an air test alone, many times those air tests come back and they show everything is fine. When you also do surface testing in that area and the surface testing comes back and shows a problem. So here's the deal is that remediators are contracted to come in and remove, remediate, remove clean mold that is growing on surfaces. That's the big thing. Mold doesn't grow in the air, it grows on surfaces. And so that has to be part of the post testing plan. So anyways, those are a couple things I want to talk about, our discussion that we actually had instead of like conceptual stuff. So this client had their remediator and their contractor on the line as well as themselves. So this is really important. I've had times where clients have actually just said, hey, can you talk to the remediator and figure it out? Which, I mean, yeah, technically you can, but the truth is, is that as the client, you need to hear everything that's going on because things get lost in translation and things also get misremembered by the remediators from our conversations. Right? They'll be like, oh, they never told me that. They didn't tell me that. This is what they said. It becomes a he said, she said thing. And at the end of the day, you can still run into roadblocks and bumps and stuff during the project. So the first good thing that they did is that they coordinated the call and they were on the call and they ran the call. Okay? So if you've ever been on a business call, you know, for work or something, there's usually one person, even a business, even a meeting, a conference meeting, whatever, wherever you do, typically there's some sort of meeting that has happened that you've been a part of and someone is in charge of the meeting, right? Someone's setting it up. They're the person that's kind of saying, all right, thanks for coming. Here's what we're talking about. Here's what we're going to do. You as the client is that person. You are that person. You can't rely on the consultant to be that person. You can't rely on the remediator to be that person. You should be the person that's running the show. Doesn't mean that you're talking all the time, but it means that you're the one guiding the conversation to make sure things are getting covered that you want to make sure are covered. That's the first thing we get everyone on the phone at first, you know, I just, I, I just did like a quick little overview of, you know, what was going on. So then the remediator said, okay, so we have a list of questions. Perfect. This is the next thing. If you're going to get on the phone, you have to make sure that the remediator has read the report before you put them on the phone with the consultant. Okay? If they're just talking to me for the first time while we're on the phone, I'm actually going to tell them that it's not worth our time to talk right now. You have a 70 to 100 page report probably sitting in front of you right now that I put together. And we're not going to talk through all of it on the phone. It's just not even possible to do that. Which means we're going to skip over things because I'm only going to touch on highlights. I'm not going to touch on the incredible specifics because you're supposed to have read that stuff. All right? It's like homework. You got to give the remediator homework before they actually come on and talk to me. And the same for you as the client. You have to read through the whole thing too. Don't just take the report and kind of skim it, right? You need to look at it. You need to understand what's happening. It's like reading the fine print in a contract. Like none of us want to do it, but there are certain times in contracts where you read every single page. Like if you're buying a house or if you're doing something that's kind of expensive, right? You know, I'll read every page. Like of our rental agreement, it was like 30 something pages. I read every single page and looked at every single word and that's what I did for that. So this is the same type of situation. So you as the client, also the remediator, both have to read the entire report. And you should then be talking to your remediator and asking them if they had any questions and get their bid based on the report. The reason that's important for you to read it is because you're going to see what their bid is and you're going to see if there's anything that was left out, right? So you're going to know this report and the scope of work like the back of your hand. And you're going to know that in the living room it said to remove the ceiling four feet out from the corner and then possibly more depending on what they see. Or you're going to know that it said in this particular wall you have to remove it two to four feet up. But if there was insulation in that wall, then you have to remove a floor to ceiling. You're going to know this stuff because you're going to have looked at the report. Then you're going to make sure that the remediator's plan matches. That's the first thing you're going to do. Then you're going to find out what questions they have. And so that's what happened here. There were some specific questions that they were talking about. I'll bring maybe one of them up, a couple of them while we're talking through. So when those questions are set up, you say, okay, here's things that we need more clarification on from Brian. Cool, now we can set a call with Brian. And so that's exactly what happened. Then we all got on the phone. So you can see how these initial steps, the remediators are very involved at this point. They're not just getting on the phone blind. They're not coming in thinking that they just know everything that's going to happen. Right? And that's great. So they're already looking like that. They're open minded to a protocol that is different than probably what they've seen. And so that was the first, that was kind of the intro stuff. So we get on the call, they have a list of questions. First question was regarding the heating and air conditioning system. And it was, the question was why am I saying that we have to replace it? Like why can we not just clean this thing? And so it's a good question, right? Because a lot, a lot of remediators will either try to do some cleaning at maybe the air handler unit, which is the mechanical unit that all your ductwork connects to. They may try to do that themselves, but then they will probably look to subcontract out the duct cleaning itself because they typically don't do that. So when you subcontract out to someone, you're basically relying on them as the expert. And so when they say, when they have an H Vac cleaning company, that's, you know, it's kind of a partner company that they use for stuff. The standards from the national association of Duct Cleaners of America, I think that's what it's called. It's called nadca. N A D C A. The standard for cleaning for H Vac systems in that, which is the actual like standard that everyone goes off of. It has nothing to do with contamination. Your H Vac system, it has everything to do with is there dirt in your air conditioning system? And that's it. And so the, the way that they actually verify or validate that their cleaning of an air conditioning system was successful is, and I'm not joking, it's by looking at it like I was in an industry conference where there was a very like seasoned, you know, 30 year air conditioning cleaner guy that was up there giving a presentation. And afterwards I asked the Question. I'm like, so how do you know that this thing is clean? He was giving a story about a client that he had that was, you know, hypersensitive. And so they had to come in and clean all the work. They had to clean all the H VAC system, and she was going to be totally fine. And so he's like, yep, we cleaned it and everything was good. I was like, well, how do you know that it was good, right? Because, I mean, think about it. We're looking at stuff you can't see. Like, you can't see these tiny particles and even know what's in there, you know? And so he's like, well, you know, we looked at it and there was no dirt left or no dust left.

Oh, okay. How do you know what was, you know, what contaminants were comprised in the dirt and the dust? And how do you know that it's clean throughout all of the duct lining, the hundreds and hundreds of feet of duck lining that you can't see? First off, how do you know all the dirt is gone from there? And second, how do you know that there aren't any of the small fragments that are left over? Well, that question didn't really go over very well. And I just kind of realized that that wasn't the forum for me to be asking that question because nobody wanted to hear it, right? So I just kind of backed off. The response was just. So you know what the response was. It's like, listen, you can see the dirt that's in there, and if it's gone, then that means that we did a good job. And if for some reason there's a problem, then we'll actually collect any dust that's in there and we'll send it to a lab. I'm like, oh, cool. What are you testing for at the lab? Like, oh, we're not testing for anything. They're just weighing the amount of dirt, and then they're gonna tell us if it's clean or not. Like, so wait a second, so you actually have control of how much dirt or dust you put into this bag that you're sending them, and then you're asking them to weigh that bag, and the weight of that bag is gonna tell you if the thing is clean. What if you just put less dirt in there.

Would be cleaner. Right. Anyway, so the whole reason I bring up that story is because, you know, if a remediator has a duct cleaning company they subcontract out to, that's going to be their thought process. They're just going to clean the ducts. And so this question came up probably because they talked to their duct cleaning guys and said, hey, this guy Brian is saying you have to remove the entire system and ductwork. Do we have to do that? And they probably said no. And so that's a question for me. And so then I went through and explained why it was important to remove all that stuff. And we've talked about this a few times before. The quick, quick overview summary is you can't completely clean out toxins. Really anything from air conditioning system 100%. So when I'm seeing toxins in an air conditioning system, then it's an immediate replacement for me. Because I know you can't completely clean it out. It gets into the micro cavities of the coils, it gets into the grooves of the ductwork that runs throughout the house. And there's just so much, you have restrictions on how much cleaning that you're actually able to do. Alright, so that's it. So I give them that answer and he's like, okay. He's like, yeah, I understand. He's like, you know, I'm just trying to look for ways to do things cheaper, right? And this is the big, big, big thing. Okay? So I'm so glad that he said that. And I'm very, very big on this. And I'll be very upfront with you guys right now. If you, you know, if you talk to others that have worked with me with our companies or our network of companies, they'll tell you that we're not cheap, right? We're probably the most expensive that there is, to be completely honest with you.

There's a reason for that, right? You have to have data, you have to have information, you have to be able to build out plans. It's not my job to come in and try to shave off cost of, let's say, and I'm just talking on my end first of maybe not sampling a certain area, even though I think there might be something going on there. Maybe in my gut, I'm like, I don't think it's as bad, so I'm not going to test it, right? Or, you know, I know that this client in particular isn't as well off financially. So I'm just not going to recommend testing for mycotoxins because I don't think they can afford it. You know what I'm doing if I do that? Doing you a huge disservice because I'm not even bringing to light the fact that it could be a Problem to you. I am making the decision for you not to do something, not to spend X amount of money. The reality is me or remediator or anyone else has no idea what your financial situation is. Right? I can't tell you how. And this is real life everywhere. You know, you can't judge a book by its cover. You may judge someone based off of what they look like or where they live or whatever, what car they drive that has no impact on what, who they are. You know what I mean? Maybe they have family members that understand how sick they are and they're willing to. There's just so many things that could be happening in this situation that it's not on me to make an assumption about that and it's not on a remediator to make an assumption about that either. Our job is to provide you. And this is how I view. My job is to provide you what I think is the complete, best and thorough way to achieve whatever goal you're trying to achieve and not consider finances. At the point of the time where I'm actually putting the plan together now we definitely will talk about finances. I'm not saying that I don't care because that's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is that we have to have the initial plan that is the true plan of this is exactly how we would do it if money wasn't an issue. Right? This is the gold standard way of doing it. Once we understand what the gold standard recommendation is, we could always then talk more specifically about your priorities. Try to figure out if there's places where we could save costs, could reduce things, could omit things, things like that. But it's not my job to make that decision for you. It's your job or not your job. It's my job to show you everything and then for us to discuss, discuss what makes the most sense for you. Right? And that's our job. And so that's the job from the remediator too. And I told them this on the phone while the client was listening. I said, listen, I totally appreciate what you're trying to do, right? Because this is expensive, it's stressful, it's not ideal, but at the same time, we'll just say the guy's name was Joe at the same time, Joe, it's not my job and it's not your job to make those decisions for our client. It's our job to show them what the impact of the full plan looks like, what the expenses are, what the scope is, what the timing is all of the different components. It's our job to show them that and then to have a conversation with them, see if it's feasible. If it's not feasible, then we can together decide what maybe an alternative option would be. And that was the response I gave him. And this is why it's so important for you as the client to be on these calls. If I said that to that guy and the client wasn't on the calls, he would never have relayed that to the client. He probably still would have pitched them the cheaper option because it would keep their overall estimate lower and give them a higher chance of winning the job. Does that make sense? Are you guys getting why we need to have everybody on the phone? Right? So that was one big question and one big thing that came out of this conversation was great. Another question they had was about the testing part process, about post testing. And so I talked to them about how we do post testing, air testing, as well as surface testing, which I mentioned a little earlier. And again, I told them this exact same thing. I was like, so listen. So our goal is to remove mold growth from the house, right? Is to return the house to a normal fungal condition. That means removing the sources of the mold that was found. We all know that mold doesn't grow in the air. It grows on surfaces. We have to 100% test surfaces. If we're not doing it, we're actually not even validating that everything is done. It's not a negotiation. That's what has to happen.

So we said, okay. So then they started asking, what type of testing are you doing? Which is amazing, right? Like, they wanted to know what their measurement was going to be. So we talked about the basic level of surface testing, which is just looking at stuff under a microscope. That's kind of the lowest end of analysis. Then we talked about mycotoxin testing and the ermi testing and endotoxins and actinomycetes and bacteria and all the other things that we were looking at doing for the post in this project and how those samples were going to be collected, where they were going to be collected. So this was another big thing that was good that we were talking. They were thinking that their job was only to clean the remediated spaces. So the places where they were removing building materials, removing walls, ceilings, things like that. However, for any of you that have gone through Mold Masterclass or have heard me talk through just the overall remediation strategy in earlier episodes, you'll know that there's two phases to the project to the cleaning project. Phase one is the sources. You do that is the phase. That's the first phase. But the second is that we have to clean the whole house. Because what happened in terms of mold growth or bacterial growth or whatever in these source areas, it didn't just stay in the walls. It didn't just stay in the cast cabinets. If that was the case, we wouldn't have had ermi testing and mycotoxin testing and bacteria testing in the house that showed elevations. If mold never got out of hidden places, then we would never have mold issues.

It's the most obvious thing when you think about it. But when people are putting together remediation plans and stuff, they only focus on the area where the growth actually was. But when you take a step back and say, listen, guys, there's hidden mold growth, we found it. Right? We have the testing. We know where it is. We've done testing throughout the house that's showing that there's toxins in the house. How did those toxins get there? They didn't get there because they just magically appeared in the living spaces. They got there because it was coming from behind the walls and it moved into the house. So when we're doing the cleaning, we have to clean the whole house. We can't just clean the areas where the growth was actually happening. So you have source contamination, you have cross contamination. You have to clean both of those things. And so I walked through how the testing was going to work in both of those areas, how we had to include all of the living spaces in the house and the attic and the basement and all that stuff in the home cleanse, which was the second phase. So that was another good thing that we were able to clear up and talk about on the phone. The third thing we talked about was, you know, what type of cleaning product should we be using? Right? And so a lot of you have actually gone to the link in my bio on Instagram.

And clicked on the button that says my favorite mold cleaning product. That takes you to a page where you can get the product that I that I typically recommend most. Or you could go to mold cleaning products and you can go straight to there. If you're listening to this and you want to see that and get it. So there is a product that I like. I don't put it in writing in the reports. The reason I don't do that is because everyone's level of sensitivity is different. And while I do like that product, and while it is a botanical base and the active ingredient is essential oils and thyme oil is one of the main ingredients and it doesn't have a lot of synthetic chemicals and it's more natural. So there's a lot of good reasons why I like it. The reality is that there are people that will probably still react to it based on their sensitivity level. If I put a hard, specific recommendation for a product in a report and then that product gets used and somebody reacts to it, it's a problem because it was as if I was giving it as a definite, like, you do this, this is what you use. The reality is that you, as the client, as the person who is running the show, you need to take ownership of what products are being used in your house. I definitely will give recommendation on what I like, but at the end of the day, you have to make sure that you're looking through the material safety data sheet, understand what chemicals are in it, maybe even consult with your doctor and say, hey, listen, they're looking at using this product in my house. Is this something that I would react to? Right. Take those steps. And so I had that exact conversation with them as well.

And I recommended the product that I do like. We also talked about encapsulating things. So an encapsulant is basically spraying like a paint that's a sealant over certain areas. And so what the remediation company was telling me was that they don't surface clean everything. This is the beginning of the conversation when I started talking about how we need to do it. The remediation protocol calls for abrasive and surface cleaning of anywhere that's discolored or affected. Right. You've got to get that mold out of the framing surfaces. You have to basically sand it out or wire brush it out. And they were like, well, we don't typically do that. What we do is that we go in there, we HEPA vacuum it, we spray it with an encapsulate. You know, we spray it. And I said, okay, I'm going to tell you this right now, that if you do that, you're going to fail. I'm going to fail you. So I want you to know that right now, if you go in there and you don't actually clean the surfaces and you just try to cover it up with an encapsulate spray, which is what that is. It's basically like a paint that you spray over stuff and it's supposed to trap whatever is there. I've done way too many post inspections where companies have tried to do that. And I come in and. And it's a freaking disaster afterwards. There's still so much stuff around. So I told them that and I said. And I was like, listen, I'm just gonna tell you, in my experience, that's what happens if we come in and that's what you do. Odds are you're going to fail. We're gonna make you come back, strip all of that, encapsulate paint, and then start over. So I want you to know that if you wanna take that chance and do it that way, more power to you. I'm not looking over your shoulder and telling you what to do. But we all understand that I'm the one coming back in here to look at this, and I'm telling you right now that if that's what you do, it's going to fail. So at the end of the day, you know, you guys obviously do whatever you feel comfortable with. And then clients, we'll call them Pam and Jim from the office, we'll call them. That's their names. So Pam and Jim, you understand where I'm coming from here, you understand what I'm going to be doing for post testing. You need to decide if you're comfortable with that approach. And if you're not, you guys should have a conversation about that offline. And they said, okay, right. This is the benefit of having these talks because the remediators just don't understand our testing process, what we're doing, what we do, because our clients are sensitive. We can't rely on industry standards for how you do stuff. Industry standard is you go in and do air testing and that's what you do. I mean, that's basically it. And there's no dust testing, there's no mycotoxins mentioned. There's no MSQ pcr, which is what the ERMI is based on. There's no back to. There's none of that stuff in their industry standards. The industry standards are go in, remove some building materials and do an air test afterwards, basically. And that's what it is. That's what everybody does. So they need to understand that that's not what we're doing here. And so that was a big benefit of this entire conversation. And so those are, those are some of the highlights. There were some more stuff that we talked about, but I just wanted to walk you through this, right? I've talked a lot about this stuff conceptually. I've talked about what you need to have included in the contract and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it's like these conversations that we have, like, while I was having this talk, I was like, man, I wish that I could just be like recording this talk and then use it and just push the talk out on the podcast feed. Because I feel like you got. You guys would have gotten so much value out of just listening to this conversation. The last thing I just want to say about the conversation, then we'll wrap this up for the day. Was at the end, the remediators, like, he said, he's like, wow, this is, this is really more than anything that we've ever dealt with. He's like, I'm confident we could do it. It's like, I just, we've never had this type of expectation on what was going to be done. And I was like, yeah, you know, I understand. You know, we work with certain set of people, blah, blah, everything I just said, basically. So he's like, yeah, he, he was saying, this is, this is pretty cool actually. He's like, I think we're actually going to rework all of our cleaning protocols.

Based off of what you have in this report on this, on. On the process that you've given us. It's like, I really like it. I was like, that would be amazing if you did that. I know that a lot of people would probably appreciate that. And so, you know, hopefully we got together, we, as the mold finder community, were able to help open the eyes to at least one remediator to be more open to what this process looks like. So, everyone, that's it for today. Thank you for listening to that story. I hope that you guys found it helpful. If you did. I actually would really love for you to like go comment on one of my posts or on a story that I put up or on a message or DM me on Instagram or something. Just let me know if you think that this particular conversation helped. If these types of things are more helpful for you guys, then I'll try to, while I'm having conversations with folks, to try to maybe like, take little quick notes of what we were talking about so I can maybe rehash some of that here on the feed, in the podcast feed. So if that's the case, let me know. Message or DM me, comment, do something, let me know. And also, please, please write a review, rate the show if you're enjoying the show. It helps me understand what's working, what's not working. It also honestly, gives me a little more motivation to keep going. Just so you guys know, like, part of my morning routine, I'm waking up at like 5:30 in the morning so I can have a half hour to record the show before my day starts. So I'm definitely making an effort and sometimes suffering the sleepy consequences that come from that. So any ratings, any feedback you guys could give me, it'll just give me some more fuel to know that, that we feel like this is making a difference for people. And I want to be making a difference. And I also want to make sure that what I'm doing is actually helping to achieve that. So if you feel that is coming from this show, then please just take a couple seconds. You only have to write something. Just do a little five star review. Just click the little thing. Takes a couple seconds. I'll see that the number of ratings have gone up and it'll be a little more motivation for me because as you all know, we all need motivation in all things that we do in life. So that's what we got for the day, everyone. We will talk to you again this week sometime. Bye. Bye.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment and subscribe and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.

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