35: Q&A - Humidity and mold / how bad is water in a basement? / How to seal showers? / and more...

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

All right, everyone, as promised, we are doing more question answering today. I've got a few more lined up for today's show. We're just going to jump right into it. So the first one was from Will Kornbaum, and the question is, does lowering the humidity of a space stop actively growing mold?

So yes and no is kind of the answer to that. It really depends on what types of molds are there and why they're growing in the first place. So, you know, I almost feel like this question might be being asked because maybe you live in a space that has high humidity. Maybe you're somewhere that you think is near the water or, you know, maybe in the south or somewhere where you're kind of always dealing with the humidity issue and then thinking that that's the reason that you're having mold growing in your house. So let me just talk on that for a second.

I live in California. I live pretty close to the water. Well, I did until I just moved. I moved about a half hour inland from the water now, so I'm still pretty close. I used to only be maybe five to ten minutes away. And so, you know, I'm about as close to the water as you can get. At least, you know, I was before. And, you know, the thing about that is that mold doesn't grow usually because of where you're living. Right. I mean, there's definitely, like, environmental impacts from where you live, and there could be issues like that. But most of the times that I go into a home, and no matter where it is, like I said, I'm in California, but I've done inspections in the south, on the east coast, near water in multiple places. Most of the time it's because there's actually leaks and water issues that are in your house that are causing the mold problem. Okay. It's not usually because of where you live. And so the flip side of this is I'll get asked, you know, can I just move to, like, Arizona or Las Vegas or somewhere in the desert, and then there just won't be mold anymore? And that's not how it works. Right. It's if any of you have listened back to some of the previous episodes. I told a story about the house that I grew up in. I'm from Las Vegas, and all the mold that was in that house when I went back to try to prep it, to sell it after my dad passed away. And it had nothing to do with the humidity in Las Vegas. Right. I mean, it's dry there. It had to do with roof issues and historical water leaks and sink problems and just a bunch of things that happen in a house. And this happens in all houses, everywhere. Right. So it's not just about managing the humidity. Yes. We want to try to keep on top of that. But I wanted to say this first, because it's not just about the humidity where you live and then how that may be impacting your house. Odds are that's probably not why you have a mold problem. Now, I have seen that that could cause issues in heating and air conditioning systems, you know, especially in the South. So, like, done some jobs in the Carolinas and Georgia and places down there. And it definitely does get, you know, really humid down there and Florida as well. And so with the heating and air conditioning system, I've seen those become impacted. And I think it's more because of where you are or that location. But there are things that can be done to the heating and air conditioning in terms of attaching dehumidification devices and reworking where the external fresh air is actually pulling from and different things. You could do the mechanical system to help protect it from that. But even in those places, I'm finding multiple sources of mold growth in the house. Right. And that has nothing to do with humidity. Humidity is not going to create, like, these sources. Right. If you have a humidity issue, you're going to see mold basically growing everywhere in the house.

And it's about figuring out why that's happening usually. So that's the first thing that I want to say. I don't want to say that it's never a problem. There are times where humidity in the house is a problem. But, you know, we're talking about general issues here. And generally it's not just the humidity on where you live that's causing a problem. So with that said, does lowering the humidity of a space stop actively growing mold?

So there are three different types of molds that can be growing. I'm not going to give you the technical terms, but there's basically molds that need a little water, there's molds that need a medium amount of water, and there's molds that need a Lot of water. So your molds that need a lot of water are like Stachybotrys, which is known as a black toxic mold. Catalmium molds like that, probably some of the ones that you've heard of, some molds that need a little amount of water are also some of the mold types that you've heard of. Certain species of Aspergillus, certain species of Penicillium are molds that don't need quite as much water. Meaning those types of molds actually could start growing. If your humidity is hitting 60% or more, you could actually have an environment where that's happening. Usually when that's happening, though, it's not just that your home has 60% humidity and mold starts growing everywhere. It's usually that with a combination of some sort of airflow restriction. So think you have a closet with the door on it, and you shut your closet door. So now you have a humidity issue in your house, and you have an enclosed space that you don't have a lot of air flow through. Maybe if you have furniture pushed directly up against walls, right? So you have a high humidity in the, in the home, which is a moisture issue and a food, and then you have the food source for mold, and then you're doing an airflow restriction by having a couch or a dresser push straight up against the wall. So if you pull that furniture off the wall, you might see mold growing behind, either on the furniture or on the wall. So those are a couple examples of like, where humidity might be triggering a mold growth issue.

By lowering the humidity, you're going to remove the, the moisture that's needed for those low water molds to grow. So yes, you could stop actively growing mold by reducing the humidity in the house. And we always want to do that. Right. Just in case. So you always want to have humidity in the house that's below 60%. I would love ideally, in a perfect world to be a little under 50%. Like if you could target 45, that'd be great. But I know it's not easy all the time to manage that. But for real, you definitely want to be under 60% at the very least. And you definitely want to be like, really? Ideally, you're below 50 is perfect case scenario. And so there are things that you could do to help manage that. Right. If you're in a humid climate, then you might need to be looking at dehumidifiers that need to be installed in the home, in the crawl space, in the basement, in the attic, different places of the house. In order to maintain that humidity issue or measurement. You know, one thing about measuring humidity just quickly. So in the new home that I'm in, I have one of those nest air conditioning systems that were installed in the house, which I was like really excited about just because I could like control stuff from my phone and all that. And you know the thing about those, so it has a humidity reading that tells you what the humidity is inside Right. Of your house. And I just want to like caution us, don't rely on like one single humidity reading to tell you what the humidity is everywhere in your house. I don't even know where the humidity reader is. So if I'm in a bathroom and I, you know, and we take a shower and there's some steam and the humidity creeps up there, the humidity on my nest thermostat doesn't change at all. So the truth is, is that room to room is going to have different.

Humidity readings and different things that are impacting it. And you should really be kind of keeping track of that room by room. And if you're doing so and you're trying to develop a plan to lower the humidity in your home to stop, you know, kind of this potential mold growth from a humidity type source, then really you need to understand what the humidity is like in every room. And you may have to implement multiple dehumidification measures in order to achieve that. Right. Depending on what's happening in your house, where you live, what the rooms look like, what the airflow looks like, all that stuff. So, I mean, you could get pretty cheap humidity readers just online and you can use those to get a sense of what's going on in the different rooms. So would it stop actively growing mold in a space? Yeah, if the mold was a lower water content mold that just needed that amount of humidity to grow, and there wasn't another source in the room that was actually causing the mold growth. So yeah, it would stop that actively growing mold if that was the case, because you're taking away the moisture that's needed. Keep in mind though, stopping actively growing mold is not the same as removing mold and getting rid of the exposure. So I've said this a thousand times already, but even if the water source is gone, you have to remediate what's going on, right. And you have to remove the colonies and the growth structures and the roots and all the stuff that comes with the mold colonies. Otherwise they're still going to break apart and get into your breathing space and into the, into the home. So just by reducing the moisture is not going to remove whatever mold grew as a result of that. So just keep in mind that's something else that you're going to have to address as well. So thank you for that question, Will. That was a good one.

Alright, so the next question we have here is from Hayden Bennett. It is, if there is stagnant water in my unfinished basement after rain, is it safe to say I have mold?

I don't want to tell you that you're going to have mold because I haven't seen it and it doesn't always happen every time, but there's a pretty good chance that you have a mold issue and, or a bacteria issue too, which could then result in potentially mold toxins and even endotoxins, which are bacterial toxins.

You know, basements, basements can have a very big impact on a home just because of where they're located. So, you know, typical airflow in a house is from bottom to top. Your house doesn't know that you don't live in your unfinished basement. So as far as your house is concerned, you, the basement is the lowest level of your home. And so your typical airflow is going to start there and it's going to move upward and it's going to come up throughout your house, up into your attic. Some of the air is going to escape the attic and then some of the air is going to recirculate down and that's going to be kind of your basic airflow pattern in the house.

So if you have stagnant water, so to me that means standing water in your basement after a rain, that means that you have a pretty significant drainage problem somewhere. So it could be water table issue, it could be, which means that like water coming up from, from the ground underneath the house could be penetrating up or it means that something with the external drainage on the outside of your house, so think like around this exterior walls of your house is not draining properly and water is getting down in there and that's going to increase the humidity in the basement. So a lot of times what happens is, is we just talked about humidity, right? And lowering humidity. And so a lot of times what's going to happen is that your humidity in the basement is going to peak over 60% because of that and you're going to get mold that starts growing on a lot of the different materials in the basement, on the subfloor, on the framing. You're unfinished. So you don't have any drywall or anything like that. But maybe if you have like wooden shelves or even on the actual concrete itself, there could be mold growth that happens on there. But contrary to what people say, by the way, I know a lot of people say, oh, concrete, mold can't grow on it. It's completely wrong. Mold can grow on concrete. I see it all the time. And so.

You could be getting mold that's growing on a lot of those surfaces down there and then that starts moving its way upward through the house. The other thing is that if there is standing water, then you've got a much higher probability and likelihood that there's bacterial growth too, because bacteria actually needs more water than mold does. So if you have standing water, that's typically where you get your bacterial issues. So when I'm doing like an inspection of a house, and if I'm either seeing standing water, if I'm seeing trapped moisture and elevated moisture readings in different walls and showers and wherever, you know, in foundation walls, whatever it is, odds are the likelihood of bacterial problems increase when I'm seeing that. Because you have a good amount of water that's basically trapped somewhere and that's like perfect environment for bacteria to grow. So yeah, I mean, I think that there's an issue there and you know, so what do you do about it? Right. So the first thing is you have to figure out what is causing the water to come in. You could remediate all day, it's just going to happen again. So you have to figure out what's happening. And I had a client that has something similar going on. And before they even got the results of everything from the testing that we did, they brought out foundation experts, they brought out contractors, whoever they needed to bring out. And by the time, which was about three weeks later that we talked, they had already started, started the process of reworking their drainage around the house and re waterproofing the house. Right. And that's necessary. If you don't do that, then the problem is going to continue, obviously. Right. And so, you know, trying to address it, it's almost going to be like a lost cause because it's just going to be this never ending cycle. You're going to be like a hamster on a hamster wheel. It just keeps going and going and going. Yeah. So the other thing to keep in mind is that so if you have a basement, there's a chance that your heating and air conditioning system, your actual air handler unit, lives in your basement. And if that's the case, then there's also a likelihood that not only you may have a mold or bacteria problem in your Basement. But it may also have impacted your heating and air conditioning system because of where it's located and the fact that it's around all of that stuff. And then that is a forceful path for the airflow to get moved through the house. So we talked about normal airflow and how it's just going to move bottom to top of a house. Right. But there's also, if you have your air conditioning system down there, it's almost like you have a transportation system that's like a forced transportation system to move it everywhere a lot quicker. So, you know, think Star Trek when they got onto that little transporter thing and it was like, right. And then they all like dematerialized and then showed up on the, on the surface of the planet somewhere. Like that's what you're doing with mold and bacteria and toxins in your basement. When you have your air conditioning system down there, you're just giving it like this magic pathway to, to everywhere else in your house. Right. So if you have that going on, then the likelihood that it's spread throughout your house is a little, might be a little more impact than not. And then two, that actual system may become impacted in general. And so you have to understand, is that system impacted? And so what are the potential like solutions? So one, you have to fix your waterproofing. Two, you're obviously going to remediate the basement at that point, which means, you know, removing any of the walls that might have been impacted or the ceiling, if you have drywall in the ceiling, you know, that may have to come out. Cleaning all of the surfaces, removing any of the exposed insulation that's there. And then we're looking at the air conditioning system. Odds are we're going to be talking about removal of the air conditioning system and the ductwork if it's been, you know, impacted by that space that it's living in. You know, so it's a big, it's a big job. But the first thing is you have to figure out why is it happening. And you have to figure and you have to stop the, the reason that that's happening, meaning the standing water and where it's coming from. And then you can start addressing all the other things. So hopefully, Hayden, that was helpful and thanks for submitting that one.

All right, and the last question I think for today is from Erica. I say it like that because it's spelled E, R, I, Q, U. And then there's like seven A's after that. So sounds like Erica. So that's it. Okay. The question Is do showers need to be sealed all the way around, top and bottom? I'm assuming you're probably meaning, like, the grout and the ductwork and stuff, or not the ductwork. I was just talking about air conditioning systems. Sorry, I assume you're referring to the grout around the tile and everything.

So does it need to be sealed? So here's the thing, is, at showers, you're pumping a bunch of water into a space over and over and over again. Okay. And what happens over time is that grout will start to deteriorate, and you get, like, these little pinhole leaks in the grout. And then water can penetrate through these pinhole leaks, and they can get behind the tile of the shower. You get trapped moisture behind the tile. And then you can have mold and bacteria problems that are actually harboring behind the shower walls, even, you know, sometimes penetrating through. But a lot of times they're just being harbored behind the shower, behind the tile, and then where the tile meets the waterproofing. And it's so interesting when you think about, like, the. The construction of how this works, because you have basically the way it works. You have your tile, which you can see, and then there's like, a waterproofing layer that your tile goes against, right? And it goes up against this waterproofing piece. And so you'll hear contractors and everyone, you know, plumbers and stuff, say, ah, you know, there can't be any mold problem back there. It's waterproof.

What the waterproofing is doing is just trying to protect the water from penetrating all the way through to the other side of the wall. It doesn't make the water disappear. That gets back there. Right? Like, think about that. So. And then you think about how tile. So let's think about that. So you have trapped moisture back there. So now think about how tile gets installed. If you ever watch any of these, like, home improvement shows or whatever, these renovation shows, you'll see when they're laying tile that they're basically laying, like, some sort of kind of adhesive. I don't know what the word is, but they kind of. They use some sort of flat kind of scraper thing, and it. And it. And it spreads this. You know, it looks like a putty kind of that they spread all over the wall, and then they attach tiles to it. Right. Well, that's a food source for mold to grow. Mold grows on that stuff. And so, you know, I've seen it when you remove tile floors and stuff, you have the remnants of the adhesives that were used and there's mold in the adhesives. I've actually tested that adhesive specifically, and I've seen it happen. So, yes, you have a waterproofing piece. The waterproofing piece is keeping the water from. Hopefully, if it's not a massive problem, is keeping the water from penetrating through the waterproofing piece and into the adjacent roof walls. So let's say you have your shower, and on the other side of the shower, let's just say it's like your kid's bedroom or something. Right? So it's trying to keep water from the shower moving through the wall to get into the wall cavity of your kid's bedroom. Right. So that's, that's what the waterproofing is doing. It's trying. Right. It's not 100% effective, but it's just another barrier for the water. But that doesn't mean that if water gets back there, it doesn't cause a problem between the waterproofing layer and where the tile is. And that's the big thing that a lot of us miss when we're thinking about showers, especially contractors and stuff like, oh, it's waterproof. There can't be anything that gets through back there. It's not true. Right. Water can get behind the tile, and then you have a place for, for mold to grow behind the tile and bacteria to thrive and things like that. And so sealing up the shower properly is really important. Part of that is the grout, right? You had to be on top of the grout. This is, this is. You know, it's funny, I just moved into. Into my new place. I keep telling you little things that are happening in my place. So one thing I've seen is that all the grout is damaged in, you know, the showers, the tubs. This house is 12 years old, right? Grout doesn't last forever. Heck, with all the water that's running on it, it probably doesn't last very long at all. And so I told.

You know, our. The homeowners here, I was like, listen, guys, there's some things because they really love this house. They're really trying to be on top of the house. I said, listen, there's going to be some things. I'd love to talk to you about things to help, like, maintain this place and, like, prolong the health of the house, if you guys are open to it. And they're like, yeah, absolutely. One of the things is, like, I was like, we really need to. We need to redo all the grout in these Bathrooms. And then we need to get on a regular kind of plan of looking at it and assessing it and making sure this doesn't happen. Because every grout issue and every shower was completely damaged. So I had them come out, and they had the plumber come out, and they're regrouting everything. So it is very important to keep your shower sealed because you are, you know, there's just gallons and gallons of water spraying in there every day, every other day, whatever. And you have to keep it sealed so it actually drains out the right way, which is through the drain. Right. The problem is that when your grout starts to deteriorate, all the water doesn't go through the drain. Part of it goes into the walls, part of it goes under the shower pan. Right. Because there's other pathways for it to travel now. So it's important you know, when you say top and bottom of the shower. So again, this question read, do showers need to be sealed all the way around, top and bottom?

What I think you mean by top, and I don't know if that's actually what you mean, but I'm going to roll with this, is there are some showers that have, like, the shower door that goes all the way up to the ceiling. So it's actually a completely enclosed shower. And then there are other showers. Think like a tub, right, that you put up, like one of those curtain rods on. So something like that.

The shower is actually open, right. It's not sealed all the way up to the ceiling. So you could actually throw something over the curtain rod into the shower. And then obviously the curtain is not this airtight sealed thing. So that whole shower enclosure is open. As compared to a shower where you have a glass door that goes all the way up to the ceiling. Does it need to be one or the other? Not really. You need to make sure that you have proper ventilation in the space. So you need to have an exhaust fan that's in there. And if you don't have an exhaust fan, because I know some older homes don't have exhaust fans in the showers. I mean, in the bathrooms, ideally, you have one. What's interesting in mine, you know, I was looking the other day, and there's the way that our room is designed. It's like a master bedroom. And then it's open to the bathroom, and then it's open to, like, the closet, but there's a door to the closet, but there's no door separating the bedroom and the bathroom. So it's kind of this whole open space. There actually is not an exhaust fan in here, but in the shower enclosure. So I have a glass door shower situation. So one that goes all the way up to the ceiling?

Actually, no, it doesn't go all the way to the ceiling. There's a space over the top of it. So it's a glass door, but there's like a foot or two over the top of it. So you're not trapping the moisture directly into the shower compartment in my particular shower. So it's going to kind of open up and go into the rest of the bathroom. But because the bathroom is completely open and not sealed, it helps to diffuse some of that collected moisture and humidity that comes from the shower. But additionally, there's a window in our shower, basically. So what we do, we keep that window open. Right? So we have. That's kind of helping with the exhaust. So because our shower doesn't seal completely up to the ceiling, there's airflow going out into the rest of the space. And we don't typically have elevated moisture issues after showers, so that's something that we're seeing. But, you know, in terms of sealing up your shower, you know, the way that I'm interpreting this, it's. It's all about. It's about sealing the tile, sealing the grout. Right. Trying to protect water from moving through those. Those pathways. And so it's looking at all the grout, making sure that it's. That it's, you know, continuously addressed, that it's not creating these different leaks. If your grout's heavily impacted at this point, meaning that you could see darkness in it, that means there's mold growing in the dark in the grout, which can happen. Then you want to remove that grout and regroute it. You don't want to, like, grout over the top of it, Right. So you want to remove that, and then you want to regroup that. So hopefully that answers your question. I think it probably did. And if not, I try to give you a little extra of different things I've been thinking of. All right, so thanks for that.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment, subscribe, and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most. Sam.