69: How to avoid mold in a new construction home w/ Michael Rubino

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

All right, everyone, welcome. Hello. Happy New Year, by the way. Today's the new year, so hopefully you guys had a good one yesterday. So I've got my. My good friend Mike Rubino on today. Everyone, meet Mike. Mike, say hi.

Hey, everyone. Brian, thanks for having me.

Yeah, of course. So Mike is the owner of All American Restoration. He is the remediation company that we refer out to all of our. We inspect clients. So anyone that we are working with directly, and we're actually going into their homes and doing the inspection and figuring it all out and putting the plans together, the next question is always, well, cool, but, like, nobody locally knows how to do this. So how do we find someone how to do this? I'm like, I got you covered, people. Mike Rubino, he travels. He'll be to you.

So I wanted to have you on. I'm sure we're going to do more of these just because there's so much to talk about. But the last episode that I did, I had gotten a question on the mold phone about new constructions and kind of how you do an inspection through a new construction specifically. And it's a little different than, like, a house that has a history.

Right.

Like, we all think we're going to walk into a new construction. It's just going to be, like, perfect. Right. Because it's brand new. And that's really not the case all the time. If you want to learn more about that piece of it specifically and, like, how I would go through and look through a new construction if you're not there to actually see it be being built, then listen back to last episode. I talk about different things that you should be doing in there. But the reason that. That having Mike on right now makes a lot of sense is because Mike is in the middle of having a house newly constructed, and, man, there's been some problems.

Yeah. I wanted Mike to come on and kind of explain what's been going on and then share some maybe, like, tips and different things that you can do along the process. If you're kind of like following your house getting built, like, I know a lot of us do, if we're Buying a new house, you're like, you know, you're there every week. You're at that, oh, they put the slab in. Oh, now the framing is up, like, all these things. But you actually need to be looking at stuff, not just driving by and admiring the build.

And so. So, yeah, that's kind of the setup. So maybe, Mike, do you want to maybe talk about the process and what's going on and things you've learned and just kind of like, do a. Do a. This is how to be on top of a new construction sort of playbook for people.

Yeah, totally. I'd be happy to. So, yeah, as you mentioned, I'm actually going through this myself, which is perfect to develop a case study about this. I'm sure you get asked this a lot, because I certainly do. Hey, should I just move on from this house and maybe build a new house?

The logic is, like, if I build a new house, there's no way it has mold, because we're kind of programmed to think that it's the age of the house that contributes to having mold. And it couldn't be further from the truth. Unfortunately, with my particular house, what. What they did is, especially during COVID there's a lot of, you know, delays and getting lumber and things like that. Well, they had a probably like 90% of my lumber delivered on my. My lawn, which is totally mud right now, and no cribbing or anything like that. So they just set the lumber in the mud, and it sat there for probably three to four weeks before they even started to really utilize that lumber and start to wreck the house. And so, as you can imagine, we all know, as an. As an expert, mold is very common in the soil. If it's going to sit in the soil for three to four weeks, on top of that, it's going to get rained on. And when it rests on the soil, you're going to have a high moisture content that's going to, you know, basically stay inside the wood. And what's the magic number, right? Mold can quickly grow as quickly as 48 hours. So, I mean, that wood is going to stay wet for far longer than 48 hours resting in, you know, mud. So by the time they started putting it up, I happened to pass by. It was like, just an inspection I decided to do on my own. I walked into the house, and lo and behold, I mean, there's mold everywhere. And I know you've posted it before on your story, you can check out at the Mold Medic, my Instagram page. You can look at These photos, but they're, I mean, horrendous for a house that's brand new.

Yeah. You know, it's crazy when you, when you texted me those pictures, I'm like, shut the hell up. Like, I mean, I mean, I've seen it before, obviously, but it's just. I mean, it wasn't like a little, like, it was bad, like, it was ever.

It was everywhere.

Yeah.

Everywhere.

Yeah.

I couldn't take enough photos.

And. And you're in Florida, right? So, like. Yeah, on top of. On top of the. You know, we don't know where the wood was before it even got to you, Right? So, like, the wood could have been sitting unprotected. It could have had a problem before it even showed up. Then it comes to you and it gets thrown in the mud for a while, and then it's raining because it's Florida. And then they put it up. Right. Like, this is a problem. And, and just to interject real quick on that, like, like, listen, there's. There's a fundamental flaw in how homes are built in general. Right. We build homes, especially if you live in, like, Florida or the south or even, like, you know, Pacific Northwest where it rains a lot, they don't cover the whole structure when they're building the house. Right. So all of this wood, even if it wasn't messed up when it got there, which odds are it's probably messed up when it gets there to some extent, it's. It's going to get rained on during construction. They're not protecting it all, which means that then it's going to cause a problem then, you know, so it's just like a. That's a bigger, much larger, like, epidemic of sick building process that we have, which maybe for another day, but anyway, yeah, totally.

I mean, so I didn't mean to cut you off. So you walked in the house, there's mold everywhere.

Yeah, so, you know, I walked in the house, there's mold everywhere. I met with the builder and I'm. I'm like, hey, look, you know, there's. There's clearly a problem here. I'm trying to give him tips and tricks how to avoid this from happening in the future. And his kind of response, just because of the lack of education with mold and construction, right. His response was like, well, we could always improve upon businesses. Right. You know, And I'm like, yeah, but I mean, this is, like, this is stuff that's impacting people's health. You know, it's really important. And he didn't really seem to understand that. And it was. It was. It was very interesting. And I'm telling him, like, look, it's. It's not very difficult. You gotta build things, keep the wood off the. Out of the mud, Build a, you know, little platform, keep it out of the mud, wrap it in plastic until it's ready to go up. When it's. When it goes up, you know, protect the outside. Maybe just. Maybe just preliminarily treat for mold on the inside, you know, before you even start introducing insulation and drywall. And you can just kind of tell, he. He's looking at me thinking it was just completely unnecessary and ridiculous, you know, and it's totally the state of our industries right now, and I can't. I can't wait to help, you know, kind of be an advocate for change in that arena. And I think developing this case study and having the opportunity to build a house personally and see all these pitfalls is really good. So I could kind of put that out there and say, hey, look, this is the change we need.

Yeah. And it's. I mean, this is not a change that's going to happen very quickly because you weren't. This isn't like some custom build, you know, like. Like everyone. Just so you know, Mike didn't go out and, like, and. And custom design this entire. He's in a. In a subdivision. Like, it's a. It's a place getting built. And. And so they're doing mass building all at one time. And when you do that, like, if any of us have gone in and even, like, looked at buying houses, like, I know my wife and I, we like to go, you know, to. To the little. The little mobile home trailer where they're talking about the houses and the new developments. And then we see, okay, they're like, you have this option for flooring and this option for this and this option for that. You can only do so much, and they won't even change things if you want. Right. Like, they were like, even. What was the thing that you were wanting to do? I forget. That would have been cheaper for them, but they still wouldn't do it because it didn't fall within, like, the checkboxes on their list.

Well, I asked them to put a thicker vapor barrier down. And then, you know, if you. If you look at my Instagram photos, you'll see exactly why I asked for that. There was holes, tears, gaps everywhere, all throughout the vapor barrier. It was a disaster. I again, brought that to our attention. So it's going to be a problem, especially considering with what they were putting on. The first floor is like a vinyl. Like a luxury vinyl floor. That's called. Right. So the problem with that is, as you know, right, you have moisture coming intruding into the slab. You're going to get trapped moisture in between the vinyl, in between the slab, and what's going to happen. Mold's going to grow. I'm explaining this to them, and they're basically like, no, no, no. There's no way moisture will intrude into this slab. We know for sure. We built thousands of homes just like this. We've had no issues. I'm like, you've had no issues that you're aware of, maybe, but I can guarantee you there's going to be issues. So I was like, look, how about we just switch from vinyl to tile? It's not. Not very difficult. You know, instead of ordering the vinyl, you order the tile. Obviously, the labor may be a little different. We can work it out, but let's. Let's go for that. You know, they didn't order any of these products yet. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. It's already on a piece of paper, and that piece of paper cannot be changed. Okay. I was like, well, tell you what, here's what's going to happen before. When this place gets enclosed, we're going to do an inspection. I'm going to have an engineer here, we're going to do moisture mapping, and we're going to see where this slab stands as far as moisture content. And I'm telling you, I've already made my claim. It's documented. I said, this is a bad idea. I have pictures documenting how the vapor barrier was not done properly. Right. So if anything happens, if I get mold underneath that floor, guess what? You're going to be the one ripping it out, remediating and putting new floor down. So I don't understand why you'd want to roll that dice. If we can just change it now, I'm more than happy to do it. I don't. You know, we weren't. We weren't really excited about having tile there, but at the end of the day, I care about my environment. I don't want to have mold in my house, so I'd rather make that easy switch. And they were just like, no, no, no, it's not necessary. So it'll be interesting to see that. That turn of events, and I'll definitely keep you posted on that.

So that brings up two good things to talk about. So, one, just briefly explain what A vapor barrier is.

So basically, a vapor barrier is a. It's a membrane that goes underneath the slab. The point of it is, is to keep moisture from intruding into the slab. Cement is semi porous, so obviously pouring cement right on top of dirt where it rains and dirt holds moisture, that moisture can seep into the slab. When you have layers on top of your slab, you could have moisture trapped in between the layers, creating an environment for mold to grow. So the moisture barrier, the whole point of it is, is to keep the moisture from getting into the slab, coming up from the ground. It only works, though, if it's perfectly monolithic, sealed the right way, doesn't have any rips, tears, gaps, etc. Which is what I had found when we did our inspection before they poured our slab.

Yeah, it's so funny how you think you just lay something down and they don't actually look at how it's done. It's just like checking things off a box, you know? And so it's. It's the quality of the work and looking at it that way. So the other thing. So talk about why you were. Why, why. Then you said, okay, we're going to switch to tile instead of vinyl.

Yeah. So basically I knew that if we switched a tile, we would be bonding directly to the cement slab. It eliminates the layers. Right. When you rest something on top of that slab, you're going to have an interstitial cavity, Right. Where moisture can get trapped and mold can start to grow. By tiling, you're actually bonding to the slabs, the slabs becoming an extension, you know, right into your tile finished surface. So at that point, you're not having these multiple layers where mold's gonna grow like that. It's. It's not perfect. Obviously, the perfect thing to do would be rip up the slab and redo the vapor barrier. But in terms of coming up with a comparable solution, that's really the best alternative for this current situation.

So how is. How is vinyl flooring put on where there's an extra. What's the extra layer?

Well, vinyl flooring is basically the extra layer. Right. So you have the slab. The vinyl flooring just sits right on top of the slab. So you could, you know, basically the only thing holding down that flooring is going to be the molding on the outer edges surrounding the envelope. Right. So essentially, if you took off the molding, you picked up the floor, it would just lift right off. It's not getting glued down. It doesn't get nailed down. It just rests right on Top of it. So there is a layer, you know, in between what. In other words, if the slab is wet, that moisture is going to sit and rest against the bottom of the vinyl, and it's going to create a potential for mold to start to grow.

And the other thing about vinyl versus tile is that tile is a material that's not going to allow mold to grow on it as easily. So when you're. When you're thinking about. This happens in basements a lot. Right. When people put flooring down in basements, they'll put, you know, older homes have carpet, or maybe they'll have vinyl flooring or something like that. Well, if you have a moisture issue coming up from the ground, like you're talking about, there's a higher likelihood you're going to get a mold issue growing under those than you will on tile, just because the organic material that's present there for the mold to grow on, there's not as much with tile. Right. So, like, if you have to lay floor in a basement, for example, I mean, ideally you leave it slab, but if you have to lay floor, then it would be, you know, tiles is typically the way you'd go, right?

Absolutely. I mean, because, you know, the tile actually bonds to the concrete. You know what I mean? And that's. That's. That's the. Really, the. The best thing about it is it doesn't have that layer in between. You know what I mean? Like, there's no interstitial space in between the tile and the slab because it actually bonds to the slab.

Got it.

Using the mortar. You. You utilizing the mortar and thinset. You know, basically, that's what happens. So it's. It's just in this type of scenario, it's the best thing that we can do other than obviously ripping up the slab, ripping up the vapor barrier and starting fresh.

Yeah, no, absolutely. All right, so we got. We got waterproofing on the ground. We're just starting here, guys. This is the bottom. This is the bottom of it. All right, so now that's one piece. Okay. So now they start putting up all the wood in the framing throughout the house. How much? So. So the house is pretty much, like, framed out now, right? Is that right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So how much of the framing wood would you estimate has mold on it?

90% of it.

Nuts.

Listen, this is. This is why exactly what Mike said earlier, like, we think that we're just going to go get a new house, and it's going to be perfect, and it's not. Right. It's just there's, there's a problem with building practices now. 90% of the framing being an issue is a problem. So in the last podcast that I did, the last episode I did Mike, I was talking about ways that I inspect new constructions, right? And how you're typically not finding a lot of signs of water damage everywhere because they're, they're patching all that stuff up. All the drywall's brand new. If there were leaks, they're kind of fixing them before you knew it was there and then covering it up, right? So like, you don't really see a lot of like, source problems. But one of the tricks is, is go look in the attic. Go look if there's a crawl space or a basement. Go look in those places where the frame is exposed. If there's a bunch of mold on that stuff, then it's probably in a bunch of the walls in the house too, because they used all the same wood, right? So like, yeah, like, if you're going to look and it's a little different, your situation, you know, you're kind of here from the beginning, so you're seeing it. But if you're somebody else who is just walking into like one of these new home developments and you're touring the models, right? And, and it's like, okay, so, so this house is built. This, this house would be yours. Here it is. It's ready to go, right? So you do your new home inspection and you have to be going up in the attics and the basements and the crawl spaces. And if you see that all that stuff, you know, if half of the base or half of the attic has mold on the framing, then walk from the house because it's going to be in all the walls because that's the wood they used to, right? And so you're seeing it now, but this is, this is like getting the X ray vision behind the walls, right? So like, if, if they finish building your house, Mike, and then I went up in the attic, I'm going to see 90% of the attic covered in mold, right? And then totally now we know, looking at the rest of the house, that it's everywhere else too, right? So it's a way to avoid that situation.

Yeah. So I mean, I think like, if you're building a house and you want it to be mole free, it's possible. You just got to really have a good team around you that's going to, you know, utilize the periods of inspections to, to make sure that certain things are not happening. Like for Instance, I would do an inspection at the vapor barrier, make sure the vapor barrier doesn't look like minded. I would definitely inspect the framing of the house. Once they kind of get it all enclosed, right, you go in there and you inspect it before they start putting insulation and drywall in, before they start getting plumbing and electric. You know, electrical trades in looking at the structure and first doing a visual inspection. Does it have mold? Right. Does it look like it has any mold anywhere? You could see that visually on the wood because you'll see some pieces of wood look like they're brand new and some pieces of wood that have all these stains on them. So at that point you can say, all right, this, this house needs to be treated. I mean, I think really as, as a, as an industry, in a new construction industry, every house should be treated. That should be the standard. It should be like, house goes up, outsides closed out, house gets treated, house gets tested. It's all good to go. Okay, Start insulating, start drywalling, start where your finishes, right? That's how, that's how the new construction home process should be from here on out, you know, and right now, because it's not that way. And let's say you happen to be building in a development like, like mine, I mean, you know, and Brian, you know, I normally do, actually foreclosures, got them, remediate them and start from scratch. But our family really loved this development. We really excited about it. So we had to go with what we had, you know, and someone else may be in that position. Right. So to be able to say if I don't go with a custom home builder, you know, or if I don't go, someone with mold, literate, you know, I'm kind of screwed. The reality of it is you can hire someone like Brian, someone like me as a consultant to kind of help guide you through this and make sure you're protected, whether you're working with a production builder, a custom builder, etc. So, you know, definitely vapor barrier. Definitely check the framing. Obviously there's other components that are, that are really important, such as H vac ventilation, you know, and how the assemblies are installed, what layers on the exterior, if there's a drainage channel, if the windows are installed, windows and doors are installed properly with the proper counter flashing. There's a couple different key things, but it's, it's not as complex or as impossible as it may seem.

Yeah, like here's how I would look at it. Like if you were buying a house that was just for sale so funny how we don't call them used houses, right? Like a used house, but, you know, new house versus house. But if you're, if you're buying a used house.

You'Re going to have, or you should, and if you've been listening for any period of time, you would be thinking this through, having these different elements around the house looked at by specialized experts who. That is their focus, right? You need to have a drainage expert looking at the whole situation around the house. You want to have someone like me come through the house and make sure that there's not mold issues, right? You want to have different, you know, people come in and make sure that you're addressing this stuff. But when we buy these new construction houses, we just assume that it's all getting done perfectly. And it's, it's not true. Like, the same people are building the houses. Like if, if you were buying. I love used house. I'm going to keep saying that if you're buying a used house and, and there's a drainage problem, that drainage problem is not because the house is old. The drainage problem is because the people who built the house didn't do the drainage. Right? That is not an aging situation of a house. That is a fundamental flaw in building construction. And that did not. Has not changed, you know, and so you need to be looking at all this stuff. So even though, you know, we're thinking we're getting this new, amazing house, if you have drainage, it isn't working. It's a problem. I mean, I can't even tell you how many houses I look at. They don't have gutters on the roof. Are you kidding? Like, this is, it's a new house. You want to have gutters for keeping the water away from the house. Like, this is simple, simple stuff, right? So having a drainage person come out having, you know, an actual mold inspection done and look through. And honestly, guys, when you're doing new constructions, when it comes to like the mold inspection piece, you can see everything at this point. This isn't even about, like finding hidden mold anymore, right? It's all open. So it's actually way easier to do that inspection. And, you know, in terms of, like, understanding, you know, so Mike said, like, ideally you're, you're closing in the outside, then you're treating the house right. Well, by treating, we're talking about remediation, right, Mike? Yeah, and cleaning that, you know, cleaning up whatever growth is on the framing that's inside. Well, if you're, if you're in this situation, where it's like a track home. You're going to run into these same things that Mike's talking about, right? Like, well, we have a timeline and the next check on the boxes that we put the drywall up. There's nothing in here about. About treating right. So you're going to need some sort of proof that that needs to happen. And I've done this for clients before, and it's super easy. You don't even need like someone like me to do it. Like, you go into the house and you split the house into sections, right? So let's say you split the house into like fourths, let's say on like the first level and maybe fourths on the second level into quadrants. And you take a swab sample from. From a lab like EMSL or aeml and these labs that will send you, literally, they'll just send you a swab and you just run the swab over all the framing in that section and then you send it in and it doesn't cost you a whole lot to do it. And you find out there's mold on the framing and then you can prove to the builder like, you are not putting me in this house and putting walls over this with mold on the walls. Now you have to remediate it because I have proof. Right. And then they have to come in and do it. So that's like such an easy thing that you can do during that process because you can literally see everything. And that's what's. It actually is a lot easier to inspect a house like that if you're involved up from the beginning.

Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, there's no, there's no hidden mold. It's all right there. And I mean, yeah, that, that's kind of. That's kind of the nice thing about building new construction or, or what I. What I usually do is like, do a foreclosure and gut it, because now there's no unknowns. You don't have to spend, you know, $10,000 in testing to figure out where all these problems are, because you could see them all, you know, you know where the problems are. And so my favorite thing to do from now on is going to be either new construction or foreclosure. Having enough equity to just gut the entire thing and start over. I think those are the best two ways to really see everything firsthand and know that absolutely nothing is being missed.

Yeah, it is. It's the way to do it. I mean, I say it all the time. Like even the best, you Know me out there, I can't see. I don't have X ray vision behind walls. We can only see where there's triggers and clues and things showing us where there's problems. Right. We're not going to find every single problem going through how it's impossible unless you got the whole house. So, like, if, if you're someone who is just very. I need to make sure that there's nothing going on. You need to understand that buying a new construction is not just the quick fix to that. Right. Like, you could go and buy a house in the neighborhood that you want to be in and gut the whole thing and then actually know what's going on and, and remediate it all the right way. Right. So there's, there's a couple ways to do that.

Yeah.

What, so you sent other pictures of, like, was there. There was leaks coming in from the outside already, right?

Yeah. I mean, in fairness, they, they don't have the outside all sealed up yet. So, I mean, I would expect some leaks. But yeah, there is leaks. And, you know, they have. There's no power there, so they don't have any dehumidification or any drying things going on. So basically it's just water's coming in, it's air drying. Water is coming in, it's air drying. I mean, it's really just.

You know, being there, I can see a thousand different things that I would do different. But you know, like, like the gentleman alluded to, you know, you could always fix a business and make it better.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing about the water coming in and drying, we've. We've said it 24 to 48 hours. You live in Florida. Like, it rains every day pretty much. So, like, if water keeps coming in through these same leaks that are, that are there because the waterproofing isn't set up yet, what do builders typically do? They let it dry. Then they put the waterproofing up and they put the drywall up over the inside, and that's that. And, oh, hey, now you have a mole problem behind that wall from the construction. Right. This is why what you said, like, you have to treat and remediate before you start putting up the interior walls and stuff and the flooring and everything.

Totally.

Yeah.

And you have to dry out the space too. So, like, once it's closed up and that, you know, if you're, if you're doing remediation, you're hiring a good remediator. They probably do that as part of the process. Like when they're they'll actually drive the space out, treat it encapsulated if needed, and kind of move forward. You know, what this builders agreed to do for me is basically dry ice, blast all of the wood to, you know, to abrasively remove the mold. So I obviously asked about HEPA vacuuming and removing all that from the environment, asked them what they plan to use for treatment, and they really didn't have all the answers because basically they're gonna sub that portion out to a mold company that's local to the area. So I'm excited to see what, what ends up happening here because obviously I'm not going to let someone do something improper in my own house. Just like I wouldn't let something happen improperly in a client's house. It's going to be the same here. So I'm excited to kind of see the process for documentation purposes, to see like, okay, when there is a mold problem in a house and the contractor feels that they're liable, here's what they typically do and let's talk about all the things wrong with this. So it's, it's cool that, that I'm kind of developing this case study as we go because I think it's going to be really, really helpful information for people to have.

No, I agree. So they're not going to let your company, who's like the top company basically in the country, remediate this for your own house. I'm sure you would do it for free for yourself, right? Like, they're not going to let you do.

Yeah.

Well, basic. Basically it becomes like a conflict of interest there. Right? Because then there's an exchange of money for a house that I'm buying. It's like this whole thing. So I didn't even really push the issue because honestly, I knew that that would be a very uphill battle. Because it almost seems like now I'm, you know, kind of pushing the issue. I want this to be legit. I want to just bring things to their attention, let them figure out how to fix it. I told them, of course, as an expert, I'd be happy to advise them on it. I mean, they knew who I am. They looked me up. They, they came very prepared. They actually were not defensive or combative at all. It was actually nice for a change because working, working this side of the fence for clients, you know, you start talking to these contractors and they're like, you know, forget you. You're the worst in the world. You know, I know what I'm doing. I've been doing it for 75 years, you know, all that stuff. Now these guys came in there, they were very respectful. They were listening. They didn't listen, not 100%, but they, they gave me 80% of their attention and were listening and, and definitely were much more approachable than I thought they would be. So, you know, basically what's going to happen is we're going to go through this. I'm going to see what they do. We're going to have an opportunity to inspect it before they bring in any insulation and drywall. I have to have final approval, which is great because they're not just gonna, oh, well, it was all done.

So they agreed to that.

They agreed to that. So we're gonna have, you know, Al. We're gonna have Al out there. He's. Because he's one of the best in Florida. He's gonna come out there, do his inspection, moisture mapping. We're gonna have an engineer out there to evaluate the slab, the structure, especially with the, the vapor barrier issue, before we, you know, let them kind of move forward and, you know, we'll see what happens from that report and we'll kind of take it as we go. Like I said, I mean, I'm excited to be able to document this, that I have, you know, more, more information for someone else. Because if I'm going through this as someone who's really expert in mold and mold remediation, you know, you know that everyone else in the world is going through this.

It's happening everywhere, you know, and we could drive ourselves everywhere thinking that we're not getting every single thing all the time. And the reality is, is that, you know, unless you're gutting your whole house, and this is the truth, this is what I. Unless you're literally gutting the whole house and doing it and remediating everything that's there, there's always going to be something left over. Right? And, you know, that's why it's so important to understand how things are moving through your heating, air conditioning system, what's settling in your house, and then also bringing in air filtration technology. Right? Like I'm, I'm the first to say that air filters don't solve a problem. But you have to, you have to get the bulk of the source that you can, so you reduce the overall load. But there are inherently still going to be additional issues in every house. And it's not even just mold, but it's also off gassing and different things like that. And you got to have these technology pieces in the house like it, like for me, it's, it's just like a must that they're in there. Like you can't even like wonder like, should I get one? No, the answer is you absolutely have to get one.

You know, So I wanna, I wanna do a big tech plug here because it goes in with new construction whether you're replacing your H Vac or you're remediating, etc. You know those air purification systems that have that nanotechnology that stop particulate as small as 7nm from getting your coil. You know, the air purification part's great. Love it. But my main, my main concern for me is like, we want to stop things from getting to the coil, which constantly condensates and creates this environment where mold can grow. And I think that that technology is so key to installing an H Vac unit. It's something that my builder didn't offer. But I will absolutely be buying one on my own and having my own H Vac company install one, you know, 100.

I literally had someone text me that question on the mold phone earlier today. And they were actually looking. So their question was they were looking at the Air Oasis bipolar, which is not filtration. So you're talking, what you're talking about, which is most important, which I agree with, is filtering. So filtration is actually pulling the particle out, not even letting it come in in the first place. These, these other ionizers and PCO tech and different things you put in the system, UV lights, all this stuff, they don't stop any of the particles from coming in. They're now trying to deactivate and turn off, let's say, what has already come in, right? The easiest way is just to stop it from coming in in the first place, not trying to deal with it once it's in there. And so the number one top priority is that, and I totally agree with you, we have on moldairpurifiers.com we have the unit that we recommend to all of our clients, which is the intellipurable house cleaner. And it's great. And it filters down to 0.007 micron, just like you said. And it helps reduce a lot of stuff coming in. Think about it. Your air conditioning system is very expensive, right? And if you have to replace it because it gets contaminated, you're talking 10, 20 grand to do that. So to put a protection piece on the front of it to prolong the life of that unit, that's a couple thousand dollars in my opinion. Is, is so worth it because you can never fully clean an air conditioning system. You just can't do it. It's impossible. And so at some point you're going to have to replace the whole thing and it's going to be a lot faster if you're not protecting it. So I totally agree with you on that.

Yeah. It's like, you know, I'll buy this car knowing that the car will for sure crash. You know, it doesn't make sense. I mean, you gotta get the insurance piece of this and make sure that the H vac is protected. Otherwise. Yeah. That 10, $15,000 you spent an H vac unit, it's out the window. Yeah.

Because it doesn't take long for it to. You know, the other big thing, and I don't know what your thoughts are on this in your place, but a big issue that I've seen in H Vac systems, new constructions, is that they're running the system while they're doing construction. And. And then it gets all impacted from the drywall and all, you know, mold is getting moved around from the framing for that grown there, and it all gets in there. I saying on the last episode, I did a. I did a brand new construction. This is a custom build. It wasn't a track build. It was a $5 million house in LA. 3H vac systems, all filled with mold, not growing everywhere, but the mold particle that moves through as a result of sources everywhere else. The attic had a big problem. It's exactly what we're talking about about. Right. And I think they had to replace all the systems. Nobody's lived in the house. It was like, it was built for like two months. And they had to replace all three H vac systems because of how it was being done. So, like, have you talked to them at all about how that process is going to work in your place?

Oh, oh, yeah. So we had, we had like a major meeting in the very beginning before we even broke ground. Of all the things that I expected. And so just to give you guys a clue of kind of what my wish list was, you know, I wanted all the doors and windows enclosed before they brought even one speck of insulation or drywall in the house. The response was, well, Michael, we don't do the garage door until the very end because we don't want to bang the garage door up. You know, I'm like, well, sounds like a you problem. You're going to figure that part out. Because I started explaining to him how bad that is. Especially in Florida, you know, high, humid, most. Most of the climate's hot and humid. I mean, right now, what are you, January 1st? And it's 64% humidity outside. It's a heck of a lot less lower than it normally is in Florida. You catch the drift. I mean, Normally you're like 20, 30% humidity in the dead of winter in most climates across the nation. So it's like you're looking at things like this and saying, you know, there's just such a big lack of understanding. I said, the next thing is you gotta have. When you put the ductwork in, all of it's gotta be sealed. System's gotta remain off until the very end, like, until all that sanding, dusty stuff is done. You know, that's when you. Because I understand, like, they may want to put it on, like, for painting purposes to try to help dry out, you know, the. The paint and just kind of get that curing properly. I mean, there's no hardwood going in, so there's no real need for climatization at that point. So I would say, like, that H vac system does not need to go on until, like, right before we're ready to move in. And so at that point, all of it needs to remain sealed so you don't have all this dust and debris getting in. I mean, the guy looked at me like I had three heads, you know, just so. So, so lack. So much of a lack of understanding. I'm explaining to him, like, about the dust. Yeah, the getting the filters clogged, breaking. The efficiency, allowing mold to get to the unit, the accumulation of dust, how that kind of gets cruded up around the coil as it condensates, creates this perfect environment for mold to grow. All I can tell you is he assured me that they. That they will definitely do that. I don't. I don't take that as.

I don't take that as a very good promise. So I definitely will be checking that out as they. As I start getting all the trades in there and start getting the ductwork in. You know, basically, you just got. You have to hammer them and just say, why isn't this done? Why isn't this done? Why isn't this done? And I totally will bring people there myself and get all. Get everything that I need done if these guys are not cooperating. And sometimes that's what it takes.

No, I'm with you. All right, so let's recap. So what are, like, the three things that we're. That you're doing that somebody could take away out of this. Out of this episode with A new construction.

All right, so I'll start from bottom up. So you're building a new house. The first thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to look over the drawings. You know, they're going to push this beautiful floor plan. They're going to tell you about all the finishes and how nice the place is, and that's all awesome. However, you want to understand what insulation products are going in, what the exterior is going to be made out of. Let's say it's made out of stucco. Is there a drainage channel in between the stucco and the cement based house that if moisture does get past the stucco, it has somewhere to go slide down and not into the house, because stucco does crack, especially as the house settles. So you're gonna, you're gonna have moisture and water intrusion if you're not staying on top of that. So having a line of defense behind it is definitely a must.

After you've kind of reviewed the plans, they all make sense. Ventilation looks good, the structural components look good. It's time to let them kind of get rolling on the process. One of the first things they're going to do is they're going to do, you know, footings, and you're going to have rebar and footings and vapor barrier. They're going to really drive your attention to look at these footings and look how much rebar we have. This is going to be the most structurally sound house in the world. And as he's saying that, my mom is just like, look at this vapor barrier.

The house won't fall down, but it's going to crumble from inside out anyway.

So having that opportunity to look at the vapor barrier is so key. You can go on my Instagram, look at photos of mine and that'll tell you exactly what it should not look like. At the next point, they're going to pour the slab, they're going to start framing, you know, definitely pass by. When they drop off the framing, you know, make sure it's not sitting in the mud. You know, ideally what they should do is get it off the mud and then wrap it with a tarp, you know, so that again, it's just, it's not going to be 100 moisture proof, but it's going to keep the standing water off of it. As it rains, they'll erect the house, they'll start putting, you know, typically Tyvek or some sort of membrane on the outside. They're going to start doing the roof, they'll put the Windows in at that point. I mean, you could definitely check out the interior structure between then. But even if you go, even if you go before that point and the place looks good on the inside, it doesn't mean that mold can't grow a week later. Right. Because for. Throughout all that time, until they get the house really sealed up, it's still, there's still moisture intruding. There's still that potential for mold to grow. So I would check it right when it's all enclosed and they're ready to start doing trades at that point, if there is mold that needs to be treated, in my opinion, every house in America being built should be treated. It should be the standard because, because of these components, these factors we have to deal with. It's just, you're gonna have some mold. Whether you can see it and it's bad or it's minute and can get worse, either or. I think it's a problem that needs to be dealt with. After that framing gets dealt with. Let's say there is mold that's remediated. Perfect. You now get it inspected, tested to verify. Because this is, this is your livelihood, not theirs. You want to double check their work.

At that point, when everything is verified, you get the, the tradesman in. So you're going to have plumber, H vac, electrician, essentially in your house. They're going to start running all their rough ins.

At that point, you'd want to make sure the H vac system is sealed off. Because odds are, even if they say they will, they probably won't. You're going to have supply registers in every room. You'll have returns in several rooms. All of those are openings for ductwork. You want to make sure all those openings are sealed so that again, when they're putting all this in, you're not getting all this dust and debris inside the duct. At that point, they'll start insulating and installing drywall. Again, just be present throughout these phases, making sure you're not seeing any signs of water damage. If they install the window improperly, if they didn't do the counter flashing improperly, water comes in.

You got to be the one to catch it because otherwise they'll just cut it out or plaster over it or whatever. And just because they don't, they just don't realize that this could be a problem for mold purposes. At that point, you know, you're gonna, they're gonna start bringing in finishes, things like that. Again, you just keep, keep, be mindful. I mean, you're gonna want to look at cosmetic imperfections. Totally understand that. But really, for. If you're concerned about your health, you're going to want to really make. Make pay more attention to any signs of water damage that could have transpired from them not doing something properly. And it happens. I mean, happens all the time, where there's a small little leak and they go in, they find it, they fix it, and, you know, they. They don't fix the interior properly. I'd say at the very, very end, you know, I do another inspection right before you move in, right before you close. Do an ermi. Do mycotoxins endotoxins, you know, do Aaron swabs. Like, just make sure the house is perfect, because if there are leaks that they covered up, there could be bacteria present, there could be mold present, and, you know, those two things can produce toxins. So I think it's really important to really make sure, because once. Once they get your money, you're stuck under this warranty, and the warranty is totally different leverage than you actually not paying, not closing on the house. So I'd say definitely do it before, because they're gonna try to push you, like, oh, don't worry. You have a warranty. You could do all that after. Let's close. No, no, no. Get your analysis done before you close, hands down.

Yeah, man, That's. That's actually all awesome.

So I don't know, the. The last three or four minutes of this. Of this episode is. Is gold. If you're looking to. To buy a new place, this is. This is how you go about being on top of it and making sure that things are as best as they could be for you. So.

Yeah, man, thank you so much. This is all amazing information. Again, like we said at the top, we all think a new construction is perfect, and as we now know, that's not necessarily the case. So you got to protect your investment. You got to protect your family who's moving in there. And like Mike said, the biggest leverage you have is your money. So don't pay for everything until you're happy with it. And don't worry about how much they're pressuring you. Who cares, right? Like, you need to have it to the place where it's good for you.

So. Yeah.

Awesome, Mike. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and being on. I'm sure we're going to do some more of these. We talk all the time.

Oh, yeah. It's been a long time coming. We need to get some more out there. I think it'd be great, but I was happy to dive into, into the construction. I think it's a very, very needed, informative practice to discuss, to go over and hopefully we can get enough people advocating for change because we certainly want to. Absolutely.

It's. Listen, this is, it's not an easy thing. It's something that we're working on behind the scenes to figure out a plan to help and, and, and trying to rally the super team that's going to help put it together. So we're getting there. But everyone, again, happy New Year. Hope you guys had a great night last night. Great kickoff to the new year. Mike, thanks again for being on. We'll talk to you soon.

Thanks, Brian. Happy New Year. Talk to you soon.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take, take a moment and subscribe and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.