84: Eve Elenhorn - Learn from this inspection and remediation story

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

Hey, everybody. What is going on? We got another episode for you today. Obviously, you're listening to it. We know that, but today I've got a friend of mine, Eve Ellenhorn, on, and some of you may know her already. She's on Instagram at Flavorful Fit, and it's actually how we met, oddly enough. She's an integrative health practitioner. She's a gut expert, a thyroid expert. And the reason that we actually connected initially is because she's kind of dealing with her own mold issues. And I thought it would be pretty cool to bring somebody on who's actually kind of going through the process and also somebody who gets it from a health perspective so you could kind of, like, get that unique side of what's happening and also hear, like, a story of how it's unfolding and some of the things that, you know, Eve has been doing along the way to share with you guys. So, Eve, hey, what's going on?

Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me on this podcast. I, you know, I, I, I, I met you on Instagram, and, you know, you just a bucket of knowledge, and I always learn something from you every single day, you know. So thanks for having me on the podcast, you know, to share my story and, you know, hopefully try to help somebody else out there.

Yeah, I'm so happy that you had some time to do it. You're super busy. I, I see you, like, on every platform doing all the things, and so I could tell how busy you are all the time. Um, so what I was thinking is maybe we kind of talk through your situation, and then we could kind of dive into different things that you were either noticing or experiencing or different things that you tried to do along the way. And we kind of break it down almost as if somebody's, like, going along the path that you went. How does that sound?

Perfect.

All right, cool. So let's, let's kind of start back, I guess, at the beginning, whenever the beginning was of when you kind of realized that mold was even an issue. So, like, what was going on?

Yeah, so two years ago.

You know, I've been, I was dealing with thyroid for for years before that, since I was like 17, 18.

And I somewhat did everything backwards. Like, I lost weight, I lost a lot of weight. And then I was able to maintain that for a few years. And then I got pregnant with my. With my third, and I miscarried at like around five, six months.

And you know, I'm that type of person that always tries to figure things out on my own. Just because I've been through the whole ringer with, with my health since I was very young. I've been in and out of doctors, I've been in and out of hospitals.

Nobody can seem to ever figure out what was wrong with me. So I was always the type of person to always try to figure things out myself. So after I had my miscarriage, I'm like, you know, I need to go back to school again and figure out what went wrong because, you know, I don't want to be, you know, I had this sort of fear that, you know, if I were to get pregnant again, you know, I want to make sure that everything's okay and, you know, I'm not going to go through that again. So it actually led me to going into becoming an integrative health practitioner with Dr. Cabral.

And at the same time, I. I said, you know what? I'm not using regular doctors anymore. I'm going to go back and. And, you know, look into a functional doctor and find a naturopath. And as I was going through that process and doing the course at the same time, I was able to pick up on, you know, is this the right path? Am I doing this the correct way? And the second part of his certification taught you a lot about like, labs and testings and all that. And. And I was like, you know, okay, my naturopath happens to be very good. She works with Dr. Ben Lynch.

And I know something was wrong, like either in terms of like my thyroid or, you know, something with my gut, because the year before, I had Epstein Barr reactivated and I knew that there was something deeper that I had to find. So I had my naturopath run, you know, an organic acids test, mold testing. I did every single test under the sun in terms of functional labs.

And then that's where we. I found them. I found mold, I found Candida, I found mold, I found mycotoxins. And I've been sort of like on this, like, healing journey for the past two years.

And you know, obviously, you know, that, you know, there's a whole picture behind it, not just about treating yourself, but the house and remediation. And all that. So I'm in that later process of fixing the house now and doing all the work that everyone stresses about.

Is it as stressful as you think it is at the beginning before you get started?

I think it's more stressful to have to deal with the stuff in the house.

Because it's one, it's expensive and two, it's like there's. It's a whole other world. Like doing, you know, becoming a health practitioner and doing all the labs, it's pretty much clear cut. But when you're dealing with stuff in the house, that's like a whole other level. Like, you have to know every single crevice, make sure that this. Right. Make just making sure that everyone's doing everything that they need to do. So it's hard. It's. You have to delegate everything.

Yeah. I mean, you kind of have to be the quarterback that's kind of running the show, but. So did you end up moving or you stayed in the same place?

So I ended up staying in the same place.

Okay.

Just because, like, there's really. It's really impossible to, like, leave really nowhere to go.

So.

Yeah, it's just. It's been hard. It's hard to leave. I think in general, when people say, like, I've been. I've been on these Facebook, Facebook groups where people would like, say.

You have to leave, you have to leave. And it's stressful. Like who. I think, to even think that in your mind is stressful in itself and you have to get rid of everything. And I speak to, let's say, you or somebody else, and they don't, you know, they don't stress that fact.

Well, you know, I think people say that a lot because of kind of the problem is that the finding the right inspectors and finding remediators are doing it the right way. It's not easy. And there's really not a lot of people that do it, in all honesty. And so it's easier to move in someone's mind than a lot of people in those Facebook groups. They've had inspectors come out, they've had remediators come out, they go back in the home, they're still sick. But it's not because it can't work. It's because the process wasn't done properly. And. And then, you know, and they don't know any better. Right. Like, to their defense, they had certified guys come in and do whatever they said they were going to do that was going to work, you know, and then they come back in the house, and they're still not feeling right, and the. And the labs aren't getting any better. And so then they just think that remediation doesn't work. And, you know, that's a drum that I've been beating for a long time. It's not that remediation doesn't work. It's incomplete. Remediations don't work. Right. And I think that's the big piece of it.

What was your process like from the inspection? Like, when you had inspectors come out? When remediation maybe happened? Did you have multiple inspectors come out? Were you not happy with some? Like, what were you seeing? Like, when did you and I connect in this process?

So I found you, I think, a little bit later, like a year after into it, when, you know, I was looking into figuring out what to do with the house and things like that. That's when I found you and realized that, you know, I had mold previously in my house. I had it in my.

In.

In areas in my basement that were remediated and inspected. But, you know, obviously, people always try to cut corners, and that's what I did in the beginning, and until I realized, you know, seeing, you know, watching you and seeing how everyone's doing it, you can't cut corners when it comes to mold.

Can you talk a little bit about, like, what. Like, an example of cutting a corner? Because I think, like, a lot of the value here is that you've. And I always tell these people, too, like, I made. I've been through things, right? And I'm trying to share it so, like, you don't have to. You know what I mean? And so, like, you've kind of gone through this and. And. And mentioned that, you know, you try to cut some corners, you know, maybe knowingly or not knowingly or whatever. So, like, what are examples of that? So people can kind of understand what that looks like.

So I actually, the remediator. Remediator guy that came to me to fix an area in the past said, you know, you have to bring an inspector. You got to inspect before we remediate. We need to have a plan. I said, listen, just take it out, and, you know, I'll address wherever the leak is. So the first mistake I made was not hiring an inspector, which I think a lot of people do, because people. You know, people even call me today and ask me, like, what'd you do about the mold? And I'm like, you can't just cut it out. You can't just get a contractor to cut it out.

So can we go into that just a little more because people ask me that, right? Like, why do I even need you to come in? And then I try to explain why it's important to have the inspection first. And then sometimes I think I get the vibe sometimes from some people I talk to that they feel like I'm almost trying to like sell them on having me come out because, you know, we make money on inspections. You know what I mean?

So what's the difference? Like what was, let's put it this way, like what was missed when you just cut it out versus what an inspection actually showed. Maybe if we could give like an example like that people really understand like why that inspection piece is needed so much.

Well, I'll give you an example like as like what's happening to me now. I actually had an argument with the current remediation company that did something for me recently. And you know, I looked at in terms of like not doing an inspection, you really basically like, okay, putting a band aid cut, you're gonna cut it out and then how do you know it's not gonna come back?

Yeah.

And like in my situation in the basement is I. I have a lot of moisture around the house in the basement, so I could get 10 people to come remediate. There's still going to be moisture. An inspector is going to look at it in the perspective of thinking about the plumbing and thinking about your health. They're kind of like an. You're kind of like an insurance policy for you.

Even if you have a regular insurance company and they're coming out, they don't care. They're mostly caring about not wanting to give you money and you, you're actually spending the money to, to give you the time to look at what needs to be done overall. So an inspections, I think more important than, you know, just cutting it out or remediating for sure.

Yeah, I, I was talking about this with somebody. Forget all my podcasts run together. I don't remember. It was one I was doing myself or if I was talking to somebody. But, but I was talking about this analogy of having a general practitioner doctor and then having a surgeon. And the surgeon's job is to cut out the tumor, right? That's what their job is. And if.

The oncologist or whatever doesn't figure out that, well, the cancer actually spread through, it's in the blood cells now. It's over here, it's over here. Then you're not going to get it. You'll get the one piece that you think you're getting, but there might be more. And then the problem comes back. And that's kind of what it sounds like. You know, you kind of saw in that experience there. So you. So you had. So you just to kind of backtrack. So you didn't do the inspection piece first. You kind of went straight to remediation. So what was it? What were you seeing that you were thinking, like, yeah, we're just going to kind of handle this?

Well, one, I didn't think it was such a big deal because I never knew about, you know, the dangers of mold until now, until it affected my health. I guess my, you know, my toxic bucket was not as full back then, and, you know, now it's just overflowing.

I think in general, people don't take anything serious until it's either too late or they're really in agony. I even said this on my stories the other day, like, that people will react more when, you know, they're suffering then in terms of, you know, just. Just doing it.

Yeah, I mean, that's like a general concept, by the way. And even if you get into, like, marketing and sales, is that people are more likely to make a decision when they're in a. In a suffering type of emotion versus a happy type of emotion. Right. And the thing is, is like.

Part. Part of the reason that I was excited to have you on is to kind of talk about maybe some of the things that you were seeing maybe earlier. Right. Like when. When you kind of mentioned maybe your. Your toxic load wasn't maybe as full. Like, what are. What were some of the things you were seeing? Were there other. Were there other members of your family that are showing any issues? Is it. Is it just you, like, kind of. What's that looking like?

I mean, my kids never really had anything serious.

I think it was really mostly me because I have autoimmune disease and I'm already compromised. So I was really the first one to actually even present symptoms.

Obviously, knowing now, obviously the Epstein Barr, you know, reactivated because of the mold, but I didn't know that at that time. And after my miscarriage raised my antibodies for my thyroid, and it wasn't until I started pulling out mold that, you know, I was able to get my thyroid under control. So, you know, it affected a couple of different things and affected my adrenals, my hormones. I don't know if it had to do with my miscarriage, but I believe it did. I really do.

Yeah. I've heard other. I've heard other doctors say that that is. Is A connection as well, which is a hard thing to say, like on a. On a podcast or a show or something, because it almost feels like, like people think that you're trying to, like, scare them into doing something sometimes. And it's like. It's not. It's not the point. Right. The point is just to. Is for awareness, you know?

Okay, so let's go back to your place. So at the beginning, you knew the basement had some moisture issues. Right. And there was something that you were just gonna have them come and cut out. And then. So they came and did that. Yeah. And then. And then kind of. What happened? So what happened after that?

So it was in a closet. It's in a closet. And that area, that closet already had a lot of stuff in it. So I wasn't really able to see, you know, the surroundings of the closet. So, you know, and the door is always closed. They never really go in that closet. And then the second time I had mold was in the closet in my office.

And that one you could see, because over there I had, you know, I had access to seeing the foundation wall of the. The house. And when I redid my basement, because I had.

The first time I had termites, and the second time I cut it out because I had moles. So I. I redid the whole basement and then remediated that closet. Second closet. And I did it. I did it the right way, but obviously not the best of the best.

Why do you say that?

And I hadn't. I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell you what happened the second time, because the second time was literally mind blowing. Obviously, I knew much more, and I knew what to fight about, and I knew what to argue about, that nothing made any sense to them. And I was just like, wow, they really ripped me off. So the second time I had an inspector come in. Did it the right way. But.

You know, there's a law in New York that remediation companies are not allowed to also be inspectors.

Because I guess it's like conflict of interest or something, or it takes away business from.

It's a. It's because of a conflict. I mean, that's why. So the idea is that you can't come in as the inspector and say, you got to rip open this entire house. And, oh, by the way, I'm the guy that does it. Right, That's. That's kind of why they put that in place. Yeah, but not everywhere has that, by the way. Like, very few states have that.

Yeah.

I mean, it is. It's a really good idea. Like, thank God, that's like one good thing. New York.

But yeah. So they came out, they inspected the air. Obviously there's all different forms of testing. They're swabbing and Ermie and all the other stuff.

Is this our group that came out? Are you talking about our group?

No.

Okay, so this is before.

No, it was the other one. Yeah. And the first inspection, obviously the sport count was, was elevated in that closet. And then they remediated and the remediation company made the plan, not the inspector.

Yep.

So looking back at it now, I was like, what? Like this is a red flag.

Yeah. And that's something that happens so often. So like when your inspector sent you the report for like whatever they did, whatever, what was it? Like two pages, like, here's the lab results and you gotta clean something.

Yeah.

Just the spore count and that's it.

Yeah. So I think a big thing to think of there is like before anyone is thinking of getting an inspector and ask for a sample of what their reports look like. If their reports are just regurgitated lab results, they're not actually helping you. It's just like a quick little side note. Yeah, okay, sorry. So that was all happening. So continue on.

So then the remediation came, the company came, they cleaned everything out. I didn't have to throw anything out, which was a little weird. And I kept asking them questions about like, you know, could you go ex, like extend more into, you know, cutting this out? Maybe go an extra three feet. They're like, oh no, you don't have to. I'm like, okay, no, that's another red flag. And then, and then again when they, the inspectors recap, they came back again to retest. They, they checked in like the weirdest areas. They didn't swab in the closet. They, they checked the air outside the closet, which is like, why would you test outside of the area that's remediated? That makes no sense.

Yeah.

And the guy didn't even have, you know, all the equipment. Like I had when I, you know, had the second inspector come out, there was no red, you know, red cat, no red light camera.

No.

It's just a little machine. Oh, you know, the air is dry. But we all know that the air can change on a day to day, hour to hour basis.

Yeah.

It's just like a poor form of checking where moisture is.

Yeah.

Which I thought was another.

I mean, they basically just did a humidity read in the room and said that it wasn't humid. Like that's kind of what it sounds like they just did.

Yeah.

And this was their way of testing afterwards to make sure that it worked.

Yeah. They tested in a different area and the spore count was even higher the second time than the first time.

Yep.

And that was outside the closet.

Which means.

That was another.

Yeah. Which means that in the remediation they ripped a bunch of stuff apart. There was obviously problems back there. Right. And then they didn't clean the air properly before taking a containment down. And did they take the containment down before he came to test because he tested outside of the closet or was that still contained?

No, after they took it down they came to.

Yeah. So then here's the next problem in that flow, just so people listening get it is like if you're going to come in and have someone do a post inspection and testing, which is what you're talking about, basically you have the original inspector come back and make sure that the remediation company did what they said to do. Right. And then you retest the stuff that was supposedly cleaned to make sure that the cleaning was effective. That's kind of the two things. Well, all of that should be done while the containments are still up. Like if you're taking the containments down, the purpose of retesting is to make sure everything's clean before you take the containments down and cross contaminate your house. Like that's the purpose of retesting. And so if the containments came down already and he took an air sample outside of where the remediation even occurred anyways, and you see elevations like that, it means they cross contaminated like throughout. And it's spread, it's spread around.

Yeah. So I actually had, I actually called them back and I was like, you know, why, why, why is the second test higher? And it's not, you know, it's not even in done in the closet. And he's like, oh, well you know, 1400 is a normal count. I said, right, but it's elevated. And they were kind of blaming each other. Oh, call the inspector. It's the inspector's fault. All the inspectors blaming the remediation companies. It's them. And she basically argued with me back and forth saying, saying, oh, it's a safe amount. I said, okay, but not when someone's dealing with health issues.

Everyone's gonna be different. On the side note, they ever say that?

Who knows? Right. Exactly what you're saying. Sorry, I just, sometimes I get excited. Continue.

Exactly. They don't know what's safe. How do, how do they know what's safe and how do they know? Not by not even asking you what your symptoms are. They should be asking you what symptoms you have and addressing that too.

Yeah.

It should be part of the interpretation and stuff. Right. Like when I know that when I'm working with somebody who has cancer and the doctor's telling me that the mycotoxins in the house are contributing to it, like, I'm looking at stuff through that lens, you know, Whereas somebody who calls and like, well, we're not feeling any symptoms, we're just kind of concerned about it. And you look at it through that lens, you're like, okay, you know, here I always tell people like, what I would do, like, like, best way to do it. But then if people come back and like, well, I'm not really feeling anything, like, what do I need to do all this stuff, then we have a conversation, you know, because it should be shaped, you know, around health position to some extent. Right. So, okay, so you had all this done. So what happened after that? Right, you're going back and forth. They're all blaming each other. You still have elevations in the house. What happened?

I ended up getting a different inspector to come out, which was somebody you recommended. Steve and.

I went back to them to show them the report. They basically laughed in my face. You want to hear what the inspector told me?

What Steve told you?

He's like, well, this. No, not Steve. The, the first inspector. He goes to me.

Oh, this guy doesn't like me. And I said, why?

So he goes, yeah, well this guy takes a swab in the toilet. That's how expensive it is. I'm like, of course it has to be that way. When you're, you have someone who has major symptoms, you have to go above and beyond that.

Yeah, I, I can't tell you how many times people have either said that I don't like them or have literally said, oh, Brian's doing the inspection. I'm not working on this project, like as the remediators. Like, they see our names and they're like, no, sorry, we're not, we're not going to deal with somebody who's that, who's that extensive, who's that comprehensive. It's just like.

But it's, it's so mind boggling to me because the job will cost them more. So what do they even care?

I know, it's so funny. I've thought about that too. I think the problem is they don't actually know how to clean it properly. So it's not that they Bill More. But then when we come back out and then fail them. Right. Because like, we would have failed that post from what you described. Right. Then they would come back in and not know what to do to clean it, you know, And I think that's kind of part of it. Even if we told them what to do, it's like they've never done it before. I don't know. It's like more of headache for people sometimes than not. So when. When our group came out, when Steve came out, did he find other things that you didn't find in the first two times, or was it all still kind of the same stuff?

He found other stuff he did. No, he found like a major mold issue in my attic. And, you know, the first inspector that came out before him swabbed the vents in my room and literally didn't even step forward, foot into my attic. He just put his hand over the. The access and said, oh, the air is dry. It's fine. I don't need to go up there.

Wait, wait. He stuck his hand and said, my hand meter says everything's perfect up here. He walked away.

Yeah.

That's funny.

The guy yelled at me for saying that.

I'm like, oh, my God, that's so funny. Listen, I don't like going into attics. I mean, you know, no one's gonna tell you they like doing it, but you have to. It's like part of doing this the right way. Yeah. So how many other things do you. Do you think that he found or do you remember or whatever that weren't? Yeah.

So my whole. My whole attic is. Has mold and I'm dealing now with that. I'm fixing that. The attic first and then addressing the base.

Yeah. So, you know, getting back. That's why the inspection piece and like a real inspection, not kind of what these guys were doing at the beginning, but that's why it's important is so you're not going back and forth and then finding new stuff and then coming back and then having a remediation company come out and then leave and then come out and then leave. It's ultimately going to cost more money that way because they're. They're booking their team, they're bringing them out, they're setting containments are taken down, they're going away, and then they have to come back and that whole setup process, they have to do again. And so it's. It ends up costing more for people if they kind of like. If it takes multiple times like this to get there versus kind of getting it done, you know, and everything. Kind of found out, you know, the first time. Right.

I. I could enter. I could probably give you an analogy. Don't spend $50 on a pair of shoes and then wait a month to get a new pair of shoes. Just spend a little more and it'll last you longer.

That's very true. I, you know, there are things that I. When I'm looking to buy, you know, certain things, I'm like, all right, for an extra, like, hundred bucks or something, I can get, like, a much better one. And, like, I know that this is gonna not break or a lot, you know, something like that. And so there. There are times when you kind of make that call. There are times when you take the bargain deal. Right. It's just the. The analogy that I always thought of, and it's just something someone told me once is it was kind of way back when, when, like, laser eye surgery was kind of starting, I guess, where you go get Lasik and kind of fix everything. And I was like, and there's like, two options of guys, and one guy had this, like, deal, and it was, like, super cheap to come in and do it. And the other guy was like, this guy that was like, you know, more expensive and seemed to repeat or whatever. I'm like, I don't know, man. Someone shoot a laser in my eye. This is the thing I'm willing to pay more money for. Like, if I'm going to do this, I feel like I'm willing to pay some more for this guy, like, in this scenario for sure. So, you know, it's just certain things, you know, that you're okay to, like, go less on and other things that maybe you should really think about kind of the quality that's coming in before you do it. So. So what did. What did the report from. From Steven and, like, our group look like? Just in comparison. So you could kind of. So people kind of understand that.

Oh, I think when you look at it overall, obviously, you know, you're just looking at one area.

It's kind of like. I'll compare it to, let's say a functional doctor, okay, you go to a. Let's say, endocrinologist to help you with your thyroid, and you still have issues going on or you still have symptoms of thyroid. That's because there's other organs that. Or your body or something else that's affecting the thyroid that needs to be addressed.

So I think when you're looking at it, you have to look at the overall picture, not just one area. And what I loved with Steve was that he was able to find in multiple different sources. And obviously, you know, mold attracts mold. It's going to carry over into other areas of the house if you're not fixing the whole system, the whole body compared to the whole body. And I appreciated that so much from him.

Yeah. I mean, I'm glad that we're able to get you somebody out there that could actually kind of help you figure out what was happening. So. So you're in the process right now. Like, where are you now and in the remediation piece of things.

Yeah. So I actually got very lucky. I didn't announce this on my Instagram, but I'll tell you breaking news.

I actually have an old insurance policy.

And you, you know that, you know, most of the new insurance policies don't cover mold. Mine happens to be an old policy, and most of the old policies cover mold.

Oh.

So I got my. I got my attic covered to cover the remediation and to cover, you know, anything that needs to be fixed around the surrounding areas.

Wow, that's awesome. Because attics are not cheap. Attics can be expensive just because of the size and the. And everything that has to be done up there. Well, that's really cool. Probably not a tip that other people could take for their insurance policy, but. But pretty cool. Well, I'm glad to hear that that happened. So are they starting yet or kind of. Where are you at and everything?

Yeah, I'm starting now. It's now it's Passover, so hopefully after the holidays they're going to start.

I sealed everything off, so for now I have things, you know, filtering in the room.

So are they doing the other places that he found too, or are you just doing the attic, like, because you said he found some other things too.

Yeah. So the bathroom in my kitchen runs along the same wall that had mold and I guess like a leak in the attic. So I'm getting that. That bathroom also covered just because it coincides with. With the leak from the attic.

That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. And then the basement's a different story. Now, I don't know what the rules are when, when you're remediating, if you have to do the whole house together, or let's say, what would you tell someone, you know, that has it in multiple areas? Is it something that you could break apart so. So that you're not burdened with the stress of finances, or is it something that needs to be done altogether?

Yeah, it's a good question. It gets asked all the time. So ideally you're doing it together just. Cause it's easier to clean the whole house like that last piece, the whole house cleaning part, if you know that like the sources are gone. Right. And so when you do the full cleaning, it'll be more effective. Right? So that's. Ideally you do it all together, but. But not everybody can, right. So I'm never like one of these people that's like, if you don't do it like this, you're a bad person, you know, or whatever. It's like you gotta do what you can do, you know, not everybody can do all of it. Not everyone can do everything exactly the way that I would love to have it done. Right. But you do what you can do and if you need to phase it out and come back and do something else in stages, you can do that too. And then you could either. You could either clean the house the first time around and then after the second time do like a lesser version of that cleaning just to kind of, you know, because you hopefully took a big dent out of it the first time. Right. Or you could do a lesser cleaning the first time throughout the house and then kind of do a more thorough, full, deep cleanse after you get the other stuff done.

You know, or you could just decide to focus on the source areas and not really do a whole lot of cleaning in the house if that's something that you want to do either. Right. And you know, I. You get it. Like, you understand if there's other things going on that you know, there's still going to be some exposure that happens in there. But at the end of the day, if you're taking away a really big source, then that load is gonna, you know, the contributing load is gonna be less. Right. And then so I would probably do some form of a cleanse in the house after you do the attic. Attic's a big space. If it's bad, you know, and you're able to clean that up. I'd probably do some form of a house cleanse after that. Even if you don't do like the super deep one just to try to, to try to take a dent out of it. And then if you can, you know, start working towards the basement piece afterwards and maybe do like a deeper clean after that. Like maybe that's something that would work.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, is in terms of like cleaning, you're talking about fogging, right?

Well, the whole process. So it's not just a fog. It really depends. And I didn't, I haven't Seen your specific, you know, the inspection, everything. But it depends, like, what was found throughout the house in terms of the ermi. If you did mycotoxin testing, if you did bacteria testing, like what all that stuff looks like. And then ultimately what basically Steve would have said would need to be done in terms of like the full cleanse of the house. So is he asking you to remove things out of areas so you could clean it properly? Is he saying that you can do a version of cleaning with, with stuff left in, in the rooms, you know, depending on what they found?

Fogging is a component of it, but it's not the only thing. So if you just fog and you don't do anything else, you're basically just bringing all that stuff down to the surfaces and then it's going to pop back up again. Like it's not, it's not going anywhere. So the point of the fog is really to grab it, bring it down to surfaces, but then to wipe it and clean it, wipe it away after that. So you're removing whatever's floating around. That's the purpose of the fog.

But there's, you know, there's like a larger kind of phase process of source removal, then it's home cleanse. And usually, you know, that all gets broken down on kind of the phase and how all that stuff works out.

So, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I would talk to Steve a little more about it and just make sure that, you know, from what he was seeing, like what he thinks. But yeah, I would do, even if it's a lesser version, you would still be doing, you know, HEPA vacuuming to get some of the bigger things out, you know, moving furniture off of walls, probably to get behind them, under things, to get the dust out from under there and then doing kind of like a. More of like a basic. Think of it almost as like a spring cleaning kind of clean versus like a super deep mega chemical clean. You know, it would be something like that.

So.

Well, I want to thank you for coming on and sharing kind of what you've been going through, because like I said at the top, I feel like.

You know, it's nice to hear me rant on about things, but sometimes it's nice to hear like, what other people are doing and how it, like happened with them and, you know, a story that maybe someone can relate to upon, like what their story has been, you know. So, yeah, I just want to thank you for doing that. And everybody is super comfortable doing that, so I just want to thank you for doing that. Because I think people will get some value out of that.

It's my pleasure.

Yay.

If I could help one person, if it helps one person, I'm more than happy.

Yeah. So just real quick about, you know, about where you are and everything. So once you tell, you know, folks where they can find you, and again, we talked is, you know, you're an integrated practitioner. You work on the gut, you work on thyroid. You know, you've. You've dealt with some of this stuff. So where could people find you if they want to kind of chat with you or work with you or anything?

So I'm mostly on my Instagram on Flavorful, Flavorful, underscore, Fit.

And I have my email and my phone number linked to it. Mostly on Instagram.

That's easy. So is everybody else.

Yeah.

Yeah. So listen, guys, I. I found Eve through there, too. So that's how we. That's how we connected. Instagram's like the new, like, platonic dating app. I feel like, of the world.

Oh, it's great. I mean, you, like, every day I see, you know, people watching you and, and, and then following me. And, you know, they're also dealing with mold. So it's, it's the awareness is. Is getting out there. So I have to thank you for that.

I appreciate it. I, you know, you. You're pleasant enough to let me chat on your platform a couple times. And just so the folks know, Eve has a much larger platform than I do, so I was appreciative of that to help kind of spread the message as well.

So. Yeah. Anyways, is there any parting thoughts or anything that you have before we wrap it up?

I think the main message I'd probably tell anyone that's going through it is.

To do it the right way and not try to cut corners.

And even if you don't have too many symptoms, don't think that cutting corners is going to help. You have to really think about prevention and, you know, not getting to a point where you're like, okay, now what?

Yeah, I kind of say the same thing a lot, but it's nice to hear it from someone who's not me. So it's not just me beating the drum over and over again. Awesome. Well, thanks so much. I know we'll be chatting soon.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for taking the time, and we'll talk to everybody next time.

So that's it for today's show, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment and subscribe and give a rating wherever you get your podcasts. It'll help spread the word to those who really need it the most.