89: Creating a Healthy Non-Toxic Home with Ashley Spanovich

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

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Here we are. Look how easy that was. Ready to go?

All right, well, we're in the recording room now, so I'll just cut out kind of this beginning stuff and then I'll just kick it off.

All right, perfect. Okay. I can hear you better now. I was gonna say. Oh, there we go.

Yeah. Can you hear well? Are you okay?

Yeah, I'm good. I'm good on my.

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Okay, here we go. Let me get my. My podcast voice going.

Get it going.

I know, right? I gotta sound so pumped all the time.

I haven't found mine yet, so hopefully this will help.

Yeah, I think too. All right, here we go.

Hey, everyone. What's going on? We got a another episode today, and today we're talking with Ashley Spanovich, which I'm really excited to have this chat. If you have found her on Instagram. She's at Awakening Spaces, and we've had a couple really awesome talks, like, in the past, and she does some really cool stuff that kind of complements sort of what we do on the mold finding piece. Right. And so basically, like, we go in, we find problems. You have remediation, your walls are open. You're like, okay, I'm going to put everything back together again. How the hell do I do that? Like, what should I use to build with? What types of materials should I bring in? I spent all this money to make sure everything is clean. I don't want to screw it up again when I put it back together. Right. And so that is a big piece of what Ashley helps people navigate. So everyone say hi to Ashley. Or Ashley, say hi to everyone, I guess. Yeah.

Hi, everyone. Thankfully. And I'm so excited to be here with you guys.

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited too. So, guys, Ashley, she's the founder of Awakening Spaces. She's a licensed interior designer. But what's cool is that in addition to that, she's an environmental consultant too. So, like, she's not just designing stuff to look pretty. Like, she's also designing it to be healthy, which is kind of what we're trying to do. Right. So anyways, that's why I thought it would be fun for us to chat today. So.

Let'S, let's just kind of take it from like the path that someone goes down. Right. So I just laid it out right? They have. We find problems, they remediate. It's all gone. Everything's open, it's exposed. What's. When someone comes to work with you and they're kind of in that space, like, like, kind of what's the, what's the path that you do with them? What are the things you're considering? Like, it just, just kind of like top line. What's, what's the goals that you have? That sort of thing?

Yeah, well, we're looking at. I always start by looking at the health that somebody's in. So what are their health priorities? Are they chemically sensitive? Are they mold sensitive? Oftentimes when people have been exposed to mold, it triggers sort of a domino effect of health issues for them. And so, you know, depending on whether they're chemically sensitive or not and what their needs are, I will try to help find materials that they can sort of rebuild with that fitness, those health needs. So, you know, we, I personally like to select natural materials as much as possible. They have a lot of amazing properties. So, you know, working with the client, we consider their needs, we kind of see what their. But we always have to see what their budget is first and then from there we evaluate what, what materials to use. So that's sort of the beginning, is looking at the budget, looking at the health, and then working with a builder to see where we need to do what we need to do. And we might need to put some pricing plans together to see what that looks like.

So, yeah, those are the first steps.

Got it. So when you're looking at. Let's just like give an example of a room. I'm glad I told you I was going to do this. I'm pacing in my bedroom right now. Literally. Yeah, I'm. I'm going to, I'm going to hit up like 10,000 steps in the time that we're talking. I think.

All the time. But let's just say that like, my, my bedroom is gutted. Right? There was a problem. We gutted the whole thing. Right. A question. I get so many questions that come in about, like, what building material should I use to do stuff? Like, is it. Should I not be using wood framing? Should I be using something else? Like, should I just build everything in concrete? Like, whatever. And like, there are things that are just like, unrealistic. I would assume you can tell, you know, if that's not true. But, like, if I'm in the second floor of a house, which I am right now, you know, we're not. We're not putting concrete walls up here. Right. Like, I feel like that would not be a realistic thing. You know, so if you're just doing like a basic room and there's maybe like two or three that happens in, like, a normal build that are just kind of like big contributors to overall environmental, you know, issues, whether it's. And guys, at this point, we're not talking mold or mycotoxins anymore. Like, we've fixed that already in this scenario, right? So we're talk. We're talking off gassing from building materials and different types of compounds that get released in the space from different glues and adhesives and the different paints that you're using, kind of all that stuff. Right. So what are like two or three things that are just super common? Like, everyone does it, and it kind of is always a problem. There are a couple things that you just can kind of think of like that.

Yeah, carpet in the bedroom, for sure. I think that. I think that people really like the feeling of having something soft underfoot. But carpets are a huge contributor to off gassing with their underlayments and the carpet themselves. Not to mention that they are just like a huge reservoir for toxins and dirt and mold spores and everything that just gets tracked into there. And you actually have to run a vacuum over carpet 10 times to even make a dent in its cleaning.

So.

So that is just. I mean, it's just so incredibly hard to clean. And. And even. Even these companies that are saying, you know, they're. They're green, you just have to also be very, very wary about selecting products that say they're green. Greenwashing is something that happens often in the building industry as well, where companies are saying it's green, but, you know, maybe it's another. So kind of stepping back to another product is like a luxury vinyl plank flooring. You know, these are low cost, but I mean, it's still plastic. We're still putting plastics on our floors. So I think avoiding. Avoiding carpets and lvts if possible, and trying to stick to more of like a natural material, like a natural wood or even like a linoleum or like a cork flooring, or using even tile, depending on your climate. I think Taro could be a really great option as well. And then getting that soft comfort underfoot from, like, a natural fiber rug. Natural fibers are actually sort of materials so they can actually absorb adsorb, should I say.

Different toxins from the air, and they do help to clean the air around you.

So.

So there's a lot of materials that we can use that actually do help promote cleanliness in the air. So I'd say, you know, avoiding those. You know, avoiding the carpet and the plastics and the floors, but then using a natural paint, a natural clay plaster, for instance, or a natural clay paint is a great way to bring in a natural material into a conventional building. So I think people are so afraid. I actually just did a post on this today about people being, you know, skeptical of using natural materials. But in reality, natural materials have been tested over time. These newer processed building products that we're using, you know, we've only been using for the last 60 years or so. So I always like to try to find ways that you can bring these natural materials in that are just easy, easy to use for people, easy to get, and also help in, like, cleaning the air. So, yeah, clay plaster would be. Sorry, not clay plaster, but a clay paint would be another great option to use on the walls.

I've never even heard of clay paint. Is it like, does it have a similar finish or something that you would like normally see, or is it going to look different?

It has a little bit more of like a plastery finish finish.

But I think it has a really nice look. It's definitely a different look than a regular.

Yeah, it's a great finish. If you're considering, you know, trying to have clean indoor air. There's some other really great paints you can use too. Like, you know, some of the bigger brands, they do have paint lines that are better. Are they best? Probably not. There's a company called AFM safecoat that I absolutely love. Every product they have is amazing. They make adhesives, they make sealers, they make paints, and they're all really, really, really. Not only environmentally friendly, but really good for your health as well.

Oh, that's cool. I'm writing that down so I don't have to go back and listen like people who. I don't know if people actually do this, but, like, when I'm. When I'm, like, talking with someone like, like this, I actually have a note up and I'm taking notes while the person is talking. I don't know if other people that listen take notes, but I really feel like you should because it's super helpful. AFM Safe Code.

AFM safeco. Yes. And always feel free to message me. I have A quick question.

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so a couple of things you said that sparked a couple of the questions for me. So first.

So I. I, like I said, I never heard about clay paint, right. So we were looking for paint, right. Especially, like, we were doing our daughter's nursery this, like, a couple years ago, but the paint's still in there. We go out and we look for. You know, I was like, we can't have VOCs in our paint. Right. I know a little. You know, I know enough. And so I'm looking at, like, zero VOC paint. So, like, what's the difference between, like, this natural type of paint you're talking about versus going and getting a more kind of bigger brand zero VOC paint? Like, is there really zero voc? Like, what. What's actually happening?

Yeah. Zero VOC doesn't actually mean that there's zero off gassing. I can't remember the technical limit it is, but with a clay paint, there's no, like, there is no off gassing. And then you're actually purifying the air in turn.

So that's the other thing with the 0 voc is there is still some off gassing. And I think.

Over time.

Yeah, sorry, I don't really know. I think over time, it's. It is doing some off gassing. So I think just avoiding those in general, if you're super sensitive is the best. But I also get it that, like, a lot of people, it's just so accessible for them to go to, you know, Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore and get these paints. So these are still better than going with a fully natural paint.

Yeah, it's. It's similar to, like. Like, air filters and different things. I know a little bit more about those where they talk about, like, ozone production. They'll say there's no ozone production, but, like, there actually is. When you start looking at the specs, it's just below a certain threshold. So, like, like, according to California, there's no ozone production. But, like, I mean, there is a little bit. And so, like, that's. That's kind of what that reminded me of when you said that.

All right, so we're back. Although many of you might not feel like we went anywhere, but I accidentally just stopped the recording in the middle of it.

I was probably talking for, like, a solid minute by myself.

So I'm going to jump back in where I was, and hopefully you guys can make sense of where I was going. So here's the diet. I know. Yeah. Whole food diet. Right. So you were talking about the natural components in the space, right. And just kind of made me think about something that I feel like we all see so much now, which is the importance of eating a whole food diet versus eating all this, like, processed synthetic crap, right? And like, we, I think a lot of us know, especially, I feel like people who are listening to this and are kind of like in the Instagram, like, circle of followers and stuff. Like, I feel like people who follow, like, one of us follows, like, all of us, because we're all like, like, talking to each other all the time. But it's like, like three big things that we know are such a big impact on health, which is the air you breathe. It's, you know, sleeping, right? Getting enough sleep and kind of the water and the food that you drink and eat, right? Like, those are, like, very three big things that happen. And on the food and water front, it's making sure that you're having filtered water, you're eating whole food diet. The sleeping piece, obviously, there's a lot to go with that. On the indoor piece, I've always kind of stopped at. Let's just make sure there's like, you know, there's no mold, bacteria problems, biotoxin issues, you know, all this stuff going on and, you know, all that stuff is happening. And then have kind of just done my little part of I'll go get zero voc paint and like, hope, you know, hope for the best or whatever. But, like, when you. When you start talking about, like, the natural pieces in a space, I'm like, oh, my God, like, this is the same as just eating, like, cereal all day, every day. Yeah.

That's so funny. It just reminded me, like, what you're just saying just made me think of, like, you know, we can go to the store and we can buy like, something that says, like, gluten free, dairy free, sugar free. And it's like. But it still comes in a bag and it's still, like, not good for your health. You know what I mean? So it's like, I feel like that relates sort of to the building materials. You know, we can buy these building materials now that say, like, Green Guard certified. Like, all these different. Might have all these different labels, but it's still a manufactured product. And so, yes, it's going to be better, but it's not the best, if that makes sense.

No, it does. I mean, I think at some point, all of us, we have to kind of decide how far we're willing to go and how far down the rabbit hole we're going to go. Right, and.

Exactly.

You know, and so many people say this. It's like if you make a series of, like, conscious changes to, like, make something better, even if it's a lot of little things, it all adds up. Right? So even if somebody just says, I'm not going to worry about going nuts in the house, but you know what? This carpet thing makes sense. I'm just not going to lay carpet in the house or I'm just not going to. I mean, think about how many walls are in your house and how much of that is off gassing. Like, if you're painting that, right? Like, the surface area that's being impacted by that could be really big. So, like, you take one of these things and try to address it, then you're that much closer, you know?

Exactly.

So. Can we talk a minute? I've. I think I've thrown out both of these terms. Maybe you did, too. Like voc, svoc, sorry, voc, space, svoc. Two different things.

Yeah.

Can we just like, dive into that a little more and explain like that is. And maybe the differences between the two for folks?

Yes. So VOC are what we hear more often, and that is volatile organic compound. And essentially these. These appear at a very low boiling point, and they are gases that are emitted from various products.

They're inhaled by us, and they're toxic. So, you know, that's. They come from a lot of different things. And SVOC is a semi volatile organic compound. So these are not as well known as VOCs, but they are, are. They can pose, I think, some greater health impacts, actually, because actually they are emitted at a higher boiling point. And they are essentially what is let off and released from a product after it's deteriorated. Deteriorated for some time. So it becomes an actual particle in the air. And so it ends up in our dust, it ends up on our walls, it ends up on our surfaces. And then we're touching those things and we're putting them in our mouth. Then we're, you know, cleaning, and we're stirring them up and we're inhaling them just like mold spores. So. And the thing with SVOCs is that they are found around the home long after the toxic product was removed. So, so that's the difference. One is a gas and one is a particle. And it can be found in our dust.

Yeah. And SVOCs.

So a while ago, it was probably like five or six years ago, I went to. I go to a bunch of different, like, medical conferences all the time just to, you know, Try to, try to pretend I'm as much of a health person as I can. And, and they actually had like a building person up there, you know, similar to what you do. And they were talking about SVOC specifically. And at the time I didn't really know anything about it. And the thing that they were specifically calling out was spray foam that's used in building and, and how it emits SVOCs. And at the time, because we didn't really know any better, like we're always learning, right? I'm never going to say that I know everything about everything, you know. And so at the time, as part of our remediation protocols, we were including spray foam in order to seal up gaps and, and different cracks and crevices that couldn't be effectively cleaned. So we were like, okay, if we can't clean these things, the, the nice thing about spray foam is that it goes into a space and it expands, right? And it kind of like tightens it all up, right. We're like, okay, this is cool. It's a way for us to get in there. And if they can't clean this little crack, then at least we'll seal it up. And, and, and that was kind of the idea, right? And then we sit in this, in this thing and we start learning about SVOCs and how they, you know, extended periods of time. This isn't like something that, that like a lot of VOC off gassing will diminish over time. Regular VOC off gassing, sometimes different things take longer than others. But SVOCs, like you were saying, I mean, this is like super long term stuff. It takes a long time for it to happen. And so we were, we look at each other, we're like, oh my God, what have we been doing? Right? Because we didn't know any better.

Yeah.

And granted we weren't like, you know, we weren't telling people sprayed all over the place or anything. It was just like for these little spaces that were tight or whatever, but immediately pulled that out of what we were doing. And since then? Well, not since then, but like, I mean, technically since then. So as, as we go in, you know, in different houses, things that I've been noticing more recently is that spray foam is being used as insulation against like foundation walls in a crawl space or a basement or even against like in the attic. Shooting up at like the ceiling of the attic to insulate the, the attic or even on the bottom and, and you go in and it's like, it just looks like mountains of spray foam. That are in there, like, oh, my God. Like, this is. This is not good, right?

Yeah.

Poison.

I know. It's so interesting, you know, to talk about that. But, like, I mean, I don't know if you know much about this. I'll put you on the spot. You talked about, you know, kind of the health impact of SVOCs. Is there anything you could expand upon specifically or just kind of. It's more of a general kind of thing that we've been looking at.

Yeah, I mean, spocs, you know, they're a known endocrine disruptor and we've seen a lot of thyroid disruption. And I. I just know, like, almost every woman I know has something going on with their thyroid, whether that's been caused from mold or toxins. But, you know, SVC SVOCs are a known endocrine disruptor. So I just think it's this toxic world we're building up and creating all these different problems. We're also, you know, it impacts childhood development and can, you know, create a harmful pregnancy and long term, it could create cancer. You know, all this toxicity, you know, cancer doesn't happen overnight. These are things that build up from, I feel like a long term toxic exposure. So I think just avoiding these as much as we possibly can. And, you know, like you said, they're coming from spray foams, they're coming from fire retardants, they're in our textiles, they're in our furnitures, they're in the foams within our furniture. And, you know, stain and water repellent are used in textiles, and those create SVOCs. And like I was talking about with the PVC flooring, the plasticizers and phthalates.

Also antimicrobials and, you know, all these floor coatings and just all this stuff, you know, the more that we can avoid it, I think in general, the less of a burden we're going to put on our body and creating, you know, filling up our toxic bucket to.

Say, yeah, for sure. Can we. Can we talk a minute about formaldehyde?

Sure can.

Yay.

Okay, so like, when we go in and we do, we do occasionally do like VOC and formaldehyde testing. Our VOC testing is more of a broad scope panel where it actually tests for, like, off the top of my head, I want to say, like over a hundred different chemicals that it splits into 16 different categories. So you can look at it and be like, oh, the VOCs that we're picking up here are really tied to, like, building materials, or these are tied to like paints and solvents or these are tied to personal care products or whatever. So you can kind of get a feel of like where the source of it is coming from, which is kind of awesome. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty neat. It also has a. I want to say there's an SVOC on it, although it's been a second since I've looked at one, so I don't want to say that for sure. But I think that we can do that if we wanted to. And then. But then the second thing that we test for is formaldehyde. Typically when we're looking at stuff like this, and usually the places that I do it is kind of in like a kitchen space.

Yeah.

A lot of cabinets, you have all your wood flooring or whatever, they're using all the adhesives and the glues that are being used to put it all on there. So like first off, formaldehyde is a carcinogen. Like it's a known carcinogen, meaning it's a cancer causer. Right. And that's why formaldehyde is such a big deal. But can we maybe talk about some places where formaldehyde is super common like that we might not think about.

So kitchen is really like the biggest, the biggest contributor to that. So I think you nailed it anywhere that you have a, like an MDF or a particle board, because it's in the, it's in the glues, it's in the adhesives and the urea. Formaldehyde is what's off gassing, you know, the life of the product. So pretty much any fake wood product you have, you know, I'm looking at one right now. I have a bookshelf from Target and I'm. I'm certain that there's probably something in there, you know, and.

So, yeah, I think just like when you're considering furniture, you can actually look for certifications that say naf, which is no added formaldehyde. And so that's going to be a really good option. And then also looking for just like solid wood furniture and things that just don't. Aren't created with particle board. And so that's sort of another good point of just like, sort of knowing where you're sourcing your furniture from. You know, a lot of these websites sell furniture and they're great. And don't get me wrong, I've purchased from them myself. And you know, it's just that other thing like pick your poison. You know, how I'm not perfect. I am aware. And it's about Creating awareness. So just knowing that sometimes when things are manufactured out of the United States too, you might not know what kind of chemicals they're using. And they're not really regulated. So, you know, sometimes buying things locally or.

You know, going with maybe a more quality company that's actually creating things with low VOC and solid wood, that's probably going to be your best bet for avoiding formaldehyde.

Yeah, you, you probably remember, I'm sure, the, the Chinese drywall formaldehyde thing at Lumber Liquidators. Oh. So.

Drywall. Because all houses are built with drywall. And I always get people ask me, like, what should I use instead of drywall? Should I use plaster instead of drywall? Like, what should I use?

Yeah.

And they're always asking me more from a mold perspective. And from the mold point of view, mold's gonna grow on plaster same way it grows on drywall. So I don't, you know, from that perspective, it doesn't really change that much. But what about on your end? Like, is. Is one better than the other?

I think finding. And I can't give you like specific brands off the top of my head, but finding brands of drywall that do not have paper on them. So I would specify drywall that is not paper faced and then in any wet area, leaving it 2 inches off of the floor. So just, I think with that there's just some ways that we can assemble the wall to kind of prevent that water from wicking up.

But it's kind of a cool idea. I haven't really thought of that. So what are you basically putting like a, like using your wood framing sill plate down there and just putting it up like a couple like higher and building it up that way.

Yeah, like putting the. Putting. So yeah, essentially covering it. Covering the gap of the drywall on the floor with your baseboard. So you know, if there were something you could be take. You could take off the baseboard and hopefully it doesn't get to the wall where you're having to rip the entire wall out.

That's a good idea.

That's a, that's one strategy we use and, and that's like in all wet areas. So there's other options too. Magnesium oxide board is another option, but I've personally haven't specified it and I think it, it can be a little more tricky to get. But that's has been used and could be an option if you can source it.

And that's the other thing too. Like, building materials now have skyrocketed per Covid and So I think we're seeing it's sort of like not that much more to go with some of these, you know, natural, we'll call them maybe alternative materials.

Anymore, because now conventional building is almost the same price as, you know, some of these alternative methods.

I was literally just talking to my landlord about this today because he had a. He had a pipe leak in his place in his crawl space. And he, like, he knows what I do. He, like calls me. He's like, hey, what do I do about this? How do I get insurance to help me with this? What do I do? Yeah, okay. So I talked to him for like an hour, but he was telling me that they were. They were initially planning on doing some remodeling in the house. And then he was telling me the. The prices of building materials right now are up like 20, basically, like in the last couple weeks. Is there just like a massive. I'm just so disconnected. I don't leave my house for, like, weeks at a time. Is there just like a massive building process happening right now? Is that what's going on?

Yeah, I honestly, I don't know what all of the factors are, but everything is exploding. And someone probably going to correct me who's listening to this podcast right now, but I want to say that lumber went from like $4 a square foot to like $12 a square foot or something like that. It's been. It's been hard. And I know there's like a lot of just shortages in the manufacturing and production. So, yeah, a lot of people are having trouble sourcing things. And, yeah, it's just a snowball effect of things that are happening right now in the building construction world.

That's crazy. Well, anyone, if you want to. If you want to fact check Ashley at Awakening Spaces on Instagram, you could actually.

Great.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, actually, I just thought of something, though, on just a quick topic. Back to the, like, bathroom and the drywall. This kind of goes back to the sorpt of materials. So using a clay paint and one thing that we look at in building biology that I think is just different than a lot of, like, green or sustainable strategies is usually using hygroscopic materials. So it's materials that have the ability to absorb. Absorb moisture and released. Release moisture. So they're actually. They're actually.

Like evening out the relative humidity in the space. So it's. Yeah, so that's another great option for, you know, if you didn't want to do clay paints everywhere and you wanted to think about maybe doing Them in some of your more wet areas or your wet rooms, like your laundry room and your, your bathroom. Those are really great options. So it kind of allows it to breathe a little bit and you're not creating condensation and whatnot.

That's super cool. So like, so it would, so it absorbs a bit of the moisture, but it doesn't create a water retention problem that would then result in mold issue.

Nope. It's. Once the humidity in the room drops, it actually will release it back into the room. So it regulates the, the humid humidity within the environment, which is why, you know, natural materials for the wind.

I think they're awesome. So yeah, it's, it's pretty cool. So. And you know, that can be plastered or, sorry, painted right onto drywall or over top of painted walls. I mean, it doesn't have to have anything crazy to add that.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay. So every time, I don't know why I keep getting hung up on this. I'm thinking like, like burnt orange adobe color. Like, like, yeah, there, there's colors, right? Like, I'm not just painting everything.

There's colors. Red everywhere there are colors. And in fact, I, I just, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm all on the clay right now because I just had like an amazing meeting with a rep and I just got done with a week long seminar and we just learned so much about building or natural building materials. And so I'm, I'm just like really, it's all in my head right now. But it's just, it's fascinating and it's, it's. There are a lot of options and colors and so I'm actually in the process. I'm going to grab some samples and on my Instagram I want to do some like actual tests on my wall at home.

Oh, that'd be super cool, people, how it is.

Yeah. Just, just to show because I live in a conventional build, it's a new build, it's, you know, not necessarily the healthiest home. You know, I'm doing what I can to improve it, but one of the things I really want to do is go through in all my bathrooms and paint them with clay. So. So if you want a tutorial, you can come on by and check out my experiment.

Love it. That's super cool. That's. I'm actually really interested in that too because there are times I go into houses and you can just see like the ventilation isn't the best in the bathroom clearly. And you can see like the Streaking and the staining on walls. And it's not because there's a water leak anywhere. It's because there's, you know, condensation happening on the walls.

Yeah.

And I always test those walls because if you're absorbing moisture, it doesn't matter where it's coming from. It can create a problem. And, like, probably half the time, there's an actual mole problem behind the wall, like, in those types of things.

Yeah.

You know, and. And about the other half, there isn't. Right. And then.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, well, you guys got to figure out the ventilation piece, because clearly there's a problem. And that's kind of like where it ends with me. Right. So, like, have somebody come out and make sure your exhaust fan is working properly. You know, have them, you know. You know, check these things out to make sure that you're pulling moisture out. But that type of paint is, like, a cool, like, additional thing. Like, if, for whatever reason, the. The. The ventilation isn't, like, ideal. And if this paint is really able to help kind of navigate that a little bit. I mean, it's obviously not going to fix an entire problem, but if it helps, like, add to a solution, then that's pretty cool.

No, totally. And. And I got into all this because of mold and my own exposure with mold and.

Just seeing my best friend's health severely decline from mold. So I'm. That's sort of where my heart lies in. In all strategies, is trying to figure out ways we can prevent it where we can sort of meet conventional building halfway. You know, it's like the joining of, like, Eastern medicine and conventional medicine, Western medicine. You know, like, it's. We need to, like, come together.

Yeah.

And find solutions, because we can't disregard the advancements in technology we have. But at the same time, we can't completely lose touch with, you know, nature and, you know, for this example, our body's own ability to heal. So.

Yeah.

I think it's so weird that. I mean, I get. I guess, why people are so, like, resistant to, like, looking into, like, old. Old Eastern medicine or whatever. I guess they, like, went to school, they paid all this money. They read all these books. They think they know everything, and it's like, I don't want to learn anymore, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, it's like. It's just so weird. Like. Like, there are. I've been on. I've been going down this deep dive of, like, earthing and grounding and, like, the last three years. Yeah. And it's like blowing my mind.

Amazing.

And I was like, there's a story that I saw somewhere I was like doing, you know, there's like all these paper like this stuff is like proven like there's literally like tens and twenties of peer reviewed papers and it's like been working forever and it's like literally like ancient cultures would like dig like a hole and put somebody in there for a couple of days and they would like get better. Yeah. It's so weird.

I know, I know.

And like why are we so resistant to even being open minded to like to, to the effect that that has on our physiology? I'm not going to get into it now. Maybe I'll do another episode on it because I'm like, it's like super interesting to me. I even just ordered some like grounding mats too for like my house. So like amazed I'm like, I'm buying into it.

I love it. Me too. I have one at my foot of my desk and at the wrist of my desk. But yeah, you just, you want to make sure you're in a working ground and you want to make sure that you don't have any dirty electricity running on your wires.

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So I know that we were, we threw out the idea of talking about like electro pollution anyway on this we're skipping the product stuff. We'll come back to that at the end. We'll skip to this part. Okay. So selfishly, I just ordered this thing, right. I'm gonna stick it in my ground and I'm going to be grounded. I'm very excited about this.

Yes.

So the ground actually isn't pushing electrical current, is it? Do you know about this or am I just asking you questions I shouldn't be asking?

So I know that I'm in training to become an electromagnetic radiation specialist, but I'm in training so there's still a lot I do not know. I will not claim to be an expert in that, but I know a decent amount. So the ground should be connected to the ground outside. But I'm assuming that with your earthing mat they gave you a tester and AC outlet grounding tester.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so you know that your ground is working, correct?

Oh well, it hasn't come yet. It's coming tomorrow. But yeah.

Okay.

I will know, I will know if it's working. Yeah.

I ordered, I had these high hopes. I ordered this earthing mat for my parents for their bed. And you know they got, and they they got it and they went and tested it and had to move the bed to do it, and they realized their ground wasn't working. And so anyway, that's a whole nother story. But yeah, so once you have a working ground, you. So this is where it's tricky because. So we have something that's called dirty electric electricity, and it stems from dirty power that comes from the power companies. And essentially what it is is if you're looking at a graph, you know, electricity usually comes in this nice, like, oscillating sort of wave. And from what I understand, dirty power, it's just sort of like these. These, like, pulses, you know, it's like these pulses and they actually radiate off of where the current is coming from and into the environment, and they can latch onto us, which can create problems. So with the earthing mat, I think the one thing you just want to consider is testing your home to make sure that your dirty electricity levels are low. Otherwise it can latch onto the ground, and you could be getting some of that from your grounding mat.

So just when I thought I was doing something really good. You are.

You are.

It's like always something else.

You're. You are.

It's.

I would just say, I think that you can actually buy. If you go to Green Wave, and I can. We can maybe link this. I don't know if you have show notes or something, we can link this. But if you go to Green Wave, you can talk to someone, you can get. You can get a little tested, you can test it yourself. And then essentially, what creates this dirty electricity on our wires is everything we have plugged in. So when you're not using an electronic in your home, unplugging, that is what's really going to help solve that problem.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

So I just unplugged two things.

Yeah, I know I always used to get in trouble, like unplug your, you know, drier because you're wasting electricity. And it turns out, yeah, it's. It's not just wasting electricity. It's. It's still. It's still using electricity even when it's plugged in. So. All right, fun fact.

All right. I was not prepared to go down this hole. I just. More questions are coming up.

I don't think that we're there yet. Yeah, well, we'll have to do a regroup on. On a deep dive on this. But, like, but so we talked way at the beginning, right. So we laid this whole scenario out. We found mold, found this problem. We remediated Everything's open. We're talking about building stuff back, right? Then we're like, okay, so a few big things we got, we got flooring, we got. Walls are pretty much the entire surface area of our whole house, basically. So walls and ceilings and floors. So it's like a big thing. So let's get like past the structural stuff. Let's start talking about, like, what we're bringing into the house, because that's going to contribute to overall load of exposure in the house too. Right? So, like, what's. What, what's kind of your thought, your plan? Like, how do you address that kind of thing?

Yeah, So I will start in the sleeping room because that is where our bodies sleep and repair each night. So that's like where we're healing. So if you do nothing to your entire house, if, if you're like, you know what? I'm gonna go with crap everywhere else. I'm just gonna do upgrades and clean materials in just the bedroom, then that's going to be like, that's still going to be really great because that's where you're sleeping eight hours a night. And, you know, you're repairing and you're healing. So. So I think, like, as far as bringing things in, like, you know, looking at your actual mattress and finding things that are, you know, a natural latex.

Rubber.

Organic material, whether that's wool or, you know, cotton. And bonus points for EMFs, no springs attached, no. No coils in the bed. And then also.

Some companies are pretty clean and really natural, but they actually use adhesives to keep the layers intact. So looking for a mattress that's stitched and avocado is one. They actually make a really, really great high end clean mattress. So there's an option. But then also, like going is going into like, your sheets and your linens and your fabric. So like I mentioned earlier, you know, there's water resistance and wrinkles, wrinkle resistance, and all these different things that are chemically treated to our fabrics. So finding things that our organic. And I always thought this was so bougie. Like when I would first be like, okay, we're gonna buy organic sheets and towels. But if you think about it, like, if you're sleeping on something all night long, it only takes 26 seconds for our skin to start absorbing things. So I think that.

Wait, What?

It takes 26 seconds for our, for our skin to absorb any chemical that is put onto it. So like a personal care product, for instance, for rubbing a lotion, it's going to take 26 seconds for that to absorb into our skin. And then same with. Yeah, just like laying on your bed if you're sleeping in that all night long, you know, and sometimes, most times we're sweating in our beds, you know, we're hot, our pores are opening up and so we are more likely to have those things.

Absorbed into our body. So. And if you think of, or cotton, for instance, that's like one of the most heavily treated crops. So with pesticides. So going and opting for an organic sheet is actually going to be a great, a great way to start bringing in good things into your sleeping environment.

Wow. I didn't know. I didn't know a lot of that stuff that you just said. My note taking is like on fire right now.

I love it.

Oh, goodness. I'm going to have to like, ask you like, follow up questions afterwards. I mean, I guess I could re. Listen. I'll re. Listen.

Yeah.

And then, and then furniture too. Like the actual furniture. Like we talked about the formaldehyde. So like, this is hard, but like finding, finding something that maybe is solid or this doesn't have the formaldehyde or any certification on that, on that furniture. It's going to be great as well.

Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. One, one thing on, like our end that I've always talked about is when we start talking about like air filtration and purifying the house. First off, all the things we're talking about is just like additional reasons why you should be having an air filtration system no matter what's going on in your house.

Right.

Like, it's not just a mold thing. And I've always said this to people, like it's, it's not just mold. There's other things that are going on. There's off gassing, there's this and that, but now like kind of diving into it even more. It's just like, like we, we need to be doing that in the house. Because there's no way that every building material that's being used is going to be the most optimal building material. Right. Even if we're trying to be super on top of it. Because it just seems like if you're going that route, it's probably being ridiculously expensive. Some of it might not even be like doable for whatever your situation is. Right. So like, you know, you try to make a dent where you can, but it doesn't seem like that you're going to be able to kind of address everything. So I mean, that's where filtration comes into play, you know, and you can help to try to kind of counteract that stuff. And you know, I have, I have five units in my house. Like, I don't have a mole problem in my house, but I have five like high end air filtration units in my house because there's other things that come into play, you know.

All right, so we've been talking for a while now. My mind is kind of blown, I'll be honest. I'm like counting all the notes. I'm like scrolling in my iPhone note thing right now. So many things, which is awesome. I learned so much today, I feel like.

So is there like one last thing that you'd like to kind of throw out? There's like a general sort of words of wisdom or anything like that that would be good for us to hear.

Yeah. So I know I talked a lot about some of the things to avoid in a home and I just, yeah, I always like to say that, like be fearful of any of this stuff. It's, it's not about scraping your environment and just starting new and just getting rid of all this toxic stuff. I just like to say, like, if you're in the position where you are about to buy a new product, whether it's a personal care item, a cleaning item or whether it's a building material, just being aware of this stuff is just, that is key. Just awareness in general is so key. And if you can make small improvements over time, that is going to be, that is going to be great, great positive steps in the right direction. So yeah, I never want to scare anyone when I'm saying any of this. And yeah, just having, having that awareness is, is all you can do.

So yeah, I say this, I say the same thing to people too. Right. Like it's, it's tough when you know a lot about something and you're like passionate about it and you like have all this information. It's like so much for people sometimes to take in. And it's not that you have to do everything at once. Right. But like any change that you make is, is a change for the better. Right. And the thing that we were talking about is kind of this scenario that we set up at the beginning. If you're going through and you're doing remediation and you're getting it all done and you're talking about build back, this is the time where you can make a lot of those decisions, you know?

Exactly.

And that's why initially I wanted us to talk because like, I feel like A lot of people get into that point and you've already ripped stuff open, so it's not like you have to do anything there, right? It's now what am I putting back? Like, let's try to be smart about what we're rebuilding with. And that's what's so cool about what you can offer to people who are going through this path, right? Like, like I always say, like, I know what I know and I know what I don't know, you know, and there, and, and there are things I know a whole lot about, and there are things I don't know much about at all. And there are things I know enough to be dangerous. But.

There'S something to be said about surrounding yourself with the right people, right? And this is what happens as somebody who's like, in, you know, in like the mold world, right? It's like, okay, we had to find the right doctor and that probably took a whole lot of time. We finally found the right doctor and then we probably had to find the right inspector because we had people that came in, they didn't know what they were, they couldn't find stuff. You know, years went by, remediations failed, whatever. Finally they find, you know, maybe us or somebody like us or whatever, and so they feel good about that. And you're kind of like building this team for each phase of the journey, right? So like, right, you're like the next step in the journey, right? It's like us for finding it, remediation company for cleaning it up the right way. And then someone like you to come in and say, okay, now that we've done all that, you don't want to just add like a big toxic mess in here. Like, let's, let's think this through, you know, and so, yeah, I think it's super cool that you're doing this because selfishly, I have someone just to send people to, to talk to about it now instead of trying to.

And back at you.

Yeah. All right, so where do people find you? Do you have anything cool that like, people can like, find these things out or. Like, what, what's. What are you, are you putting stuff together? Like, what's going on? What's happening?

Yeah, well, I'm working on putting a lot of stuff together right now. But yeah, you can head on over to my Instagram page where I share a lot of little nuggets of information. You can check out my website and you can just shoot me an email and I'm, I'd love to chat more about this stuff and if you're interested in learning more about any specific topic, I could definitely use the ideas of what to create and what's needed. So yeah, I'm happy to, to listen to what you, what you're, what you're wanting right now. So.

Awesome. So Instagram is at Awakening spaces website is awakeningspaces.com awakeningspaces.com yeah, there we go. And remember, fact checked everything she said and she wants you to, she wants you to DM her and tell her everything.

That.

Always open for improvement.

So funny. Awesome. Well, thank you for taking the time and dealing with all the recording fun. I hope that people don't notice like how, how it felt like this recording went because it felt, it didn't feel smooth. I'll just say that I agree.

Yeah. Thank you so much though for just joining or like inviting me on here. It's been really fun and I enjoy talking to you. I love talking to like minded people. So hopefully, hopefully you can weave it together nicely.

I'll see what I can do. We'll figure it out.

All right, thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon.

All right, bye, Ryan.

Bye.

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