📈 Performance Marketing in LATAM 🌎 Insights from Disney & Beyond 🎙 The Nearshore Cafe Podcast

Welcome to the Nearshore Cafe Podcast, home to the most interesting stories and people doing business in Latin America.

Welcome to the Nearshore Cafe Podcast. I'm Brian Samson, your host. Today we have a very special guest, Vicki Marco. But before we connect with Vicki, just a quick shout out to our sponsor. Plug Technologies. That's plugg.tech. Plug provides software developers all over Latin America to US companies. Vicki, welcome. So nice to have you on the show today.

Hi, Brian. Thank you. Nice to be here. I'm so excited.

Good. Hey, Vicki, I loved how well-traveled you are. And I think that's a great place to start. So, so just to set some foundation, like where are you from originally? And then, uh, where have you migrated over this past year?

Yes. So I'm from Argentina. Uh, I've lived in Buenos Aires my whole life, but during the past months, pretty much, um, I, I mean, I've been working full remote since 2018. And I've always liked to travel, so I can travel. I mean, I can work wherever, and I've been taking advantage of that since this year. So I'm from Argentina. I'm currently in Ciudad de México. I came from Brazil. And just to add up, I work for a company that is based in Colombia, so that makes it like a good mix.

Amazing. Amazing. And you said Buenos Aires, like, city of Buenos Aires is where you're from?

Yeah, exactly. I'm from the city of Buenos Aires. Yes, actually, I'm from the outskirts, but yes, mostly. Yeah.

Okay, excellent. Now, much of our listening audience knows Buenos Aires and Argentina, but for those that don't, maybe what are some things that someone who's never been to Argentina never been to Argentina before and Buenos Aires in specific, what should they know? Like, what are the couple of things that you'd want them to know?

That's a good question. I think, I mean, it's an amazing city. I love Argentina. I love Buenos Aires. It's great. You have like great food, great wine, great people. People are fun. Everybody loves to have a good time and they're like really welcoming, you know, it's a really like open culture. But mostly we're well known for our wine and our asados. Asado is like a barbecue, I guess. But I don't know, I guess the meat is really good. I don't eat that much meat, so I wouldn't know. But everyone is like obsessed around Argentinian meat, so I guess we have to give them some credit. And yeah, I mean, that's really nice. It has a really good cultural offer, you know, you can always see bands and art, so it's a really interesting place to be. And yeah, mostly I guess culture and food. We also have tango, which is really famous, which is this dance that's from Buenos Aires. It's not from the rest of Argentina. In the rest of Argentina, what they what they dance, the traditional dances are called folklore, and they've got nothing to do with tango. And I like them much more. Okay, great.

Yeah, as a tourist in Buenos Aires, we would always see the tango shows in the plazas, especially in San Telmo and Boca, around there. It's, you know, I of course am obsessed with the meat in Argentina, but an interesting piece that maybe not everybody thinks about is not only the Spanish culture and the steak, but the Italian side of that. And there were some amazing Italian restaurants and pastas and so forth. And maybe you can share a little bit about that.

Yes, well, Argentina has a very like European flavor European footprint, if that makes sense, like especially Buenos Aires. So if you've been in Europe, Argentina might, you know, ring a bell because Buenos Aires is very similar to some of the, some European cities in the architecture and of course the food. Yeah, so it's really like in the DNA of our culture because During the end of the Second World War, we had a lot of immigration from Spain and Italy mostly, so it's pretty recent, you know. So many people have, like, many people my age have direct Italian, like, yeah, abuelos, I'd say grandfather, grandparents. So, so it, yeah, so it has a really, really, like, strong, you know, Italian thing about it. So, yes, Italian food is a big thing, like pizza and pasta. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah.

Now, pizza in Buenos Aires especially is quite unique. I guess I could say Argentines love their cheese.

Yeah, I think I mean, I think what we do is like, we enhance whatever comes, you know? So we have, uh, you know, you know, you have empanadas, which are like this kind of like stuffed things. They are all over the world, but in Argentina they're huge. You know, you get your pizza and then it's like 1 kilo of mozzarella cheese, which is nowhere else in the world. But I mean, it's, that's, that's literal. You know, we had this episode in Netflix where they showed you like a very traditional Argentinian pizza, uh, which is called La Meseta. It's really small. Um, but yeah, like one of them has like a whole kilo of mozzarella cheese inside and that is like regular. So, so yes, that's what we do.

Amazing. Amazing.

We over-exaggerate stuff.

Yeah. And as you mentioned, the Italian ancestors and the heritage. I once heard someone describe the Spanish of Argentina as Spanish spoken like an Italian with like big, as you mentioned, you know, big food, big hands, big expressions.

Yeah.

You know, it's a very expressive language.

Yes, I talk with a lot of my hands. Yes, we do that a lot and we shout and we're like, yeah, very effusive. And you know, uh, if anyone has seen, uh, images of the last World Cup, it was crazy. And people were like, it was, it was crazy. And yes, I know, like, I think the, if you've heard Italian and you hear Argentinian, like the cadence is, is, is kind of similar, you know? So yes, it's got a very, very strong name. Italian thing going on.

Now, did you see the World Cup from Argentina? Were you in Brazil at that time?

Yes. No, no, no. I was in Argentina. It was absolutely crazy. They estimated that like maybe 4 or 5 million people were on the streets those days just in Buenos Aires, which is, I don't know, like the city is absolutely not prepared for that. It just worked because everyone was so festive about it that it just worked. But it had all the key ingredients to be a castastover. It could have been mayhem, but it worked out somehow.

Yeah, I remember seeing drone footage of the large avenue, 9 de Julio, and the obelisco. And there must have been like 2 million people just on this road or something. It was insane.

Yes. It was absolutely crazy. And there was like no police, no nothing. Like there were no bathrooms. It was crazy. It was pretty crazy, but it turned out well. Yes. Yeah. That's a fun fact about Argentina. I think we have like— well, I don't know now, but at least when I was smaller, 9 de Julio was, I think, the widest avenue in the world.

I think it's still the longest.

I think it still is the biggest. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, you need like 2 or 3 stops, intervals to get one way. It is crazy. That's right.

Yeah, you need to plan that into your trip as you're walking, as you're crossing the avenue.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you started your marketing career from Argentina before you started to migrate. Yes.

Yes. I mean, I've worked from Argentina. Yeah, since I got my degree, actually. That's a fun story. I didn't tell you this before, but I was, when I graduated from school, I went for a trip with a friend of mine and I was sending curriculums as we went, you know, from hostel to hostel, I would connect into the internet, you know, you had to dial in and it was a thing. So I borrowed the computers. And I would send CVs and I got my first work while I was in Accenture here, but the interview, I got it while I was from, while I was in Costa Rica, I think. So, so yes, that's how it started. That was my first job. Yeah, but ever since I've been working in like based in Buenos Aires and yes, I've worked, I was in an office until 2018. Then in 2019, I left and I thought it was going to be like something that I would go back to. I didn't know, I didn't know how was my life, you know, out of, out of being in an office. So I thought it was a good, like in-between thing, you know, like it'll pass. But for now, I think I'm okay. I just, I had this old chair and I just bought like a, you know, a table and like I got my, my, um, yeah, like my desk. So it was very rustic. Um, and yeah, like I never went back, like it's been 5 years and I don't think I'm ever going back to, uh, to, uh, to an office ever again. But yes, before I was in Buenos Aires, even though I didn't go to the office, but I mean, I worked from Buenos Aires for a Colombian company for a year and a half, more or less. And before that, I worked for other Argentinian companies from Buenos Aires, but no offices for me.

Yeah. You know, one of those companies that I wanted to ask you about is the famous Disney. And, you know, and I'll be honest, you know, I just took my little kids to Disneyland last year and Many people know about like, you know, Tokyo Disney and Disney Paris and stuff, but I had no idea about Disney's presence in Argentina. Can you, can you give a little background on like what Disney is doing there? And, you know, recognizing you're not there anymore, you're not a spokesperson for Disney, but I would just love to hear about like what was Disney doing there? What was your experience? What was your role? Like, how did that connect to Disney US.

Yeah, sure. The thing is with Disney, everyone knows a lot about the parks, you know, so parks are in Tokyo and then in Florida and Paris, but then they have like offices, just offices all over the world, right? So they have presence in different offices. In Argentina, we had the Latin America the headquarters and the Argentinian office, right? So we had two offices in one. And what we did was, yeah, we run campaigns for, yeah, I mean campaigns and everything, but we managed businesses that were not related with parks, right? Parks are only in those places, but then you have presents, for example, you have live shows and you have TV shows in Argentina. A lot of local TV shows were produced. I don't know if you have kids, but yeah, it was not a big thing maybe in the US, but it was big in Europe. Violeta, which was our first huge hit as Latin Americans. And yeah, that was a production that we did from Latin America. I mean, co-produced with Disney EMEA, but it was produced here, right? And so, yeah, that's what we did. I mean, I worked specifically for the TV line of business, but then there were other like, yeah, live events and then movies or what they call theatrical theater. I don't remember anymore, but yes. So you do those lunches and co-marketing deals and everything about, yeah, creative and about local productions. We did everything. And of course, yeah, there's a the consumer products, which is huge. And those, yes, are also locally produced. It's not that they come from abroad, right? So there's a lot of business units and it's just that parks, which is what we all think about when we think about Disney, those are not in Latin America. Yeah.

Yeah. Now when we think about consumer products, you know, I think like our house is loaded with this stuff, right? Like we've got, you know, the like Mickey dolls and Mickey t-shirts and Minnie and all this. And does that translate directly to the Argentina market? Is it localized at all? You know, how, how is the buyer market look at those?

No, actually it's very, very standard, like Disney. Yeah, that's what— that's why they have such a strong, you know, brand equity, and that's because they've managed to have this huge consistency over every market and over time, you know, you see a Disney product and it's perfect, uh, anywhere in the world, you know? So they're really, I mean, Disney is not cheap at all. It's not, but then it's always perfect, you know? So they, they, they deliver like high quality standard. And that's what you expect as a consumer. That's why maybe, If there is another brand and they have like this sloppy behavior, you'll, you'll, you know, you'll look the other way. But if it's Disney, then you won't because you really expect it to be perfect. So yeah, it's good. It's good though.

Yeah, that's, that's amazing. That's amazing. And, and your, and your focus was entirely on the marketing side when you were at Disney?

Yeah, I worked, I've always worked at marketing. Yes. So yeah, I did marketing for the TV line of business and I was specialized in local productions. Local productions are those TV series or shows that were locally produced, of course. And it was a big challenge, you know, because normally things will come like from abroad, right? From the US or from from Europe and you just localize. Yeah, you make them, you know, you translate them and you make them like small adjustments for kids to be able to watch them in Spanish, right? Or in Portuguese, because we always— we also had Brazil in our scope of work. But then when you do a local production, you just have to do everything yourself, which is great. You know, you have to Yeah, you have to create this brand and yeah, see how you will be doing the go-to-market and how everything needs to coincide, you know, the CD launch, the music, the MP3, the live show, the TV show, the stickers, albums, you know, everything needs to be perfectly coordinated. And of course you wouldn't guess that, but, but in order to have, um, consumer products on your shelves at the same time as you have the show on air, uh, that needs to be produced like years ahead. So you, maybe you, you don't even have like the main character yet, but you need to be defining stuff. So it's super challenging. Yeah. So yeah, it's huge. You need to do like the whole puzzle and just wait for the last piece to come in to, you know, to just press play and everything starts going on. Yeah. Wow. Super exciting.

That's some serious pressure too. So I know you're used to driving into that. And then your career, you know, if I'm reading it right, migrated a little more into like tech type of world. You know, you're welcome to talk about the company companies specifically or broadly, but, um, would just love to hear a little more about, you know, what you were working on, uh, the last couple years.

Um, yeah, when I left Disney, um, I've always been like really curious and I've always read a lot, you know, I read a lot of blogs and, and I like to, um, take courses and like really be up to date with, with what, with everything market-wise, uh, marketing-wise, I'm sorry, uh, But yes, when I left, when I left Disney, I started working kind of like by chance in tech. And I really like fell in love with it. I was, I started to see that maybe what I was doing, which was a lot of like branding and advertising, it was great, but then it was very difficult to, like to defend, you know, it's, it's, it sometimes goes into this gray areas where it's just like what you like, what you don't like, and it's difficult to measure. But then when I started doing performance campaigns for small clients or whatever, um, cause that's where I started. I didn't start directly on startups. I started doing performance marketing for small clients and that was really, really defendable. You know, you had, you had this budget and you had your channel and we only charge for whatever, we like whatever marginal gains we were, we were, we were giving them. So it was, it was crystal clear. And I kind of fell in love with that. And I also fell in love with startups and, you know, going into the startup world and the VCs and, and I had to, yeah, I had to like relearn everything because I was used to this huge projects, you know, with years ahead of planning and then I started hearing about, you know, MVP and like, if you launch something you're not ashamed of, then it's late. And I was like, why? I came from Disney, you know, you know, quality was, was what I was used to do. And so how am I going to launch, launch something that I'm, that I'm not comfortable with? It was crazy for me and, and no P&Ls and no, it was just, everything was just testing and let's see what comes back. Huge and, you know, MVPs. So yeah, I had to relearn everything. Um, and it was really challenging, but then I kind of got the taste of it and everything was like so fast. And, you know, um, I was used to seeing maybe impact like in, in the long term, but here in a startup, you change something today and maybe tomorrow or the day after you immediately see results. So it's huge, you know, it's also a lot of pressure because then you've got no one to blame and no one to share the guilt with. So when it's good, you get all the applause and when it's bad, you get all of the hits. But, but I found that really, really, you know, nice and empowering. It was, it was good. And so, yes, that's, that's why I've been working in tech ever since. Um, also I, I started like, you know, getting into startups and I was like, there must be some kind of marketing that is related to growing startups. You know, this is huge. I hadn't heard about it, but you know, startups existed before, before I discovered them. Uh, so yes, that's how I got into growth marketing with some, you know, papers and small courses. And, um, yeah, then I got into, um, this, this really nice, um, course that is called Growth Rockstars. And then I got into Reforge. So that's how I've been like training myself, you know, um, to, yeah, to be up to date because, because everything changes so fast. Uh, you need to be always learning.

And, uh, As we talk about the tech scene and the startup scene in Latin America, I'm really interested in your perspective, and especially if we could give our audience a little bit more background. Most of our audience knows about MercadoLibre and Globant and some of the major tech powerhouses. And they know, you know, MuleSoft and Medallia and some other companies that have moved down there. But how about like the burgeoning up-and-coming startup scene? You know, maybe you could describe like coworking and how these startups are formed and VC and the whole ecosystem. Like, what are you seeing, you know, over the last couple of years?

I think that what I've seen during the last years is that everyone is— I mean, more and more people are getting the grip on what a startup is and what venture capital is. And, and I've seen more people like chasing their, their own startups and, and doing their own things, you know, and trying to get funded for stuff. And, uh, that's I mean, 10 years ago, I think that was unimaginable, at least for me, or I hadn't seen a lot of it around me. But now, like, I say I work at a startup and everyone knows what we're talking about, right? And so I think that's very, that is really growing fast in Latin America. And I think there are this like, hubs where you've got a lot of things going on. Um, Colombia is one of them. I think, you know, we've seen Rappi, which was like, uh, the first one, but then there are, there's a huge, you know, um, yeah, like startup hub going on in, in Colombia, like Medellín. Um, I haven't been there yet, but, but well, I worked at a Colombian startup. Um, also, yes, Argentina. Yes, Argentina has always had this this DNA of entrepreneurship. But yes, but I don't think it's growing. Yeah, I mean, fintech is huge. We have Mercado Livre, of course, and Mercado Pago, which are huge. And when I was— this is crazy— when I was in Brazil a couple of months ago, and I was talking with this guy who was absolutely certain that MercadoLibre was from Brazil, you know? So that is crazy, you know? And MercadoLibre in Brazil is huge. And so yes, Brazil also has this startup scene, which is really, you know, bubbling up. I've been in a coworking in Brazil and there were a lot of, of course, not Brazilians, but a lot of people from Colombia usually and everyone. Yeah, I was working on different startups and, you know, everyone had their projects. Yeah, I was sitting side by side with this guy who saw I was working at Alegra and like, as soon as I stopped a call, he like started pitching me on his, on his project, which, which was which was nice and fun. Um, but yes, what I think what we're seeing is that there is a lot of movement and people in, in Colombia, in Argentina, in Brazil, uh, and Mexico too. Yes. Uh, they're especially Mexico and Colombia are huge, uh, like, yeah, markets. So I think what we're seeing and what we'll probably see in the next years as a trend, you know, is that we will see more and more Latin American startups, which is just great. And like, really, it's a really exciting moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. When I, when I think about startup centers, you know, in places that are really thriving or they're trying to thrive, And, you know, some of the criteria that I think about a lot, of course, you need capital, you need funding in these markets, you need talent, you need energy. And then you also need knowledge and experience that's kind of recycled, you know, over and over and over again, like you have an exit, and then you become a mentor, right? And like, it is, or you you know, work at this company, it goes really well, and then you go to another company and you pass that knowledge down, right?

Yeah.

So when you think about that, like capital, talent, energy, and experience and knowledge, where does Argentina rate really high on and where, where is there maybe some room for improvement?

I think Argentina rates really high in talent, right? We've got really like formed people, really educated people, especially because, you know, university, college, or school, yes, is free in Argentina. So it's public and everyone can get a degree. So I think like the the media is really educated people, which is awesome, right? But yeah, I think there is a lot of talent. And also we've got like this thing going on where, you know, the market is so, so unstable. I guess like everyone is specialist in like doing everything as best as they can and, you know, having the workaround. And they're very creative finding solutions. That's why Argentinian people are very creative. That's why they always win those prizes in advertising. And yes, we have really good advertising. And I think that translates, that creativity translates into or cascades into whatever we do, right? 'Cause we need to be, we always know how the market is doing, you know, 'cause it's really unstable and that doesn't happen if you live in a regular economy, but we always know about inflation rates and how the dollar is pricing, you know, on different kinds of dollars. So it's kind of crazy. It's a crazy economy. And I guess that makes us a really valued, valuable talent, right? So I think we lack, um, we lack, uh, or, or we're kind of behind in, in funding. Right. Um, and of course I don't think there is like this huge, uh, tradition of, uh, entrepreneurship and, and, and those kinds of, those kinds of, of, you know, we, we did this, um, huge company and then we, I don't know, made an IPO and now I'm a mentor. Those are like small cases, right? Well, you've got MercadoLibre. Of course we had like Globant, you know, which is huge. Those are huge examples, but they're, it's not that regular. So we're starting to see those, those cases, but we, it's not like, like we've got a lot going on. So, so I think, yes, we will be seeing more of that. Now that the market is opening, you know, on Argentinians, it's not a thing from Argentina, but I guess it's all about Latam. And, you know, you about this, but like frontiers are kind of diluting, right? So now talent can work from wherever for wherever, and that gives us access to different kinds of experiences. And maybe hopefully we'll see more of that, you know, having had this huge experience and now turning the other way around and, you know, giving that back. I think we'll see that in the next years, hopefully.

That's an excellent perspective and great segue into a topic I wanted to get your thoughts on. As there's more awareness, I think, going on than ever before in the States about Latin America. And of course, anytime you mention Latin America and talent, Argentina comes up. So there's a lot of like curiosity, I'd say, amongst like people that I know, business people. For those that maybe— let's talk about marketing because that's your domain. For US companies that are looking to Argentina, maybe for nearshoring opportunities to get work done out of Argentina for, for their US company or US brand. What advice would you have for them to find the right people and have a successful engagement?

I think we have this kind of like way, you know, that we tend to be like, you know, kind of like fun. Maybe we're not that structured, you know, and so that may come off as as kind of unprofessional, but I think everyone deserves a chance, you know? I mean, it's happened to me. I've been rejected at jobs because she laughs too much. Like, actually, that has happened to me. No, no, she's going to get bored. She doesn't seem very professional because she's always laughing. And I mean, I have a great sense of humor. That doesn't make me unprofessional, but whatever. So I guess that can happen.

Yeah. So maybe what I'm hearing is recognize that passion and energy will be— there's a lot of extroversion and fun energy, passion, and don't be turned off by that. Embrace it, go into it.

Yes. And we are very kind of like direct, especially when you compare Argentinian kind of the Argentinian way with like the rest of Latin America. We're very, very straightforward and that may come as, you know, it may be, yeah, like kind of like breathtaking, you know, it's hard for some people because we have no problem, you know, regarding feedback. So yes, we're very, very direct and so I think I mean, from my perspective, that is a really good advantage, right? Because it, you know, it cuts right through, you know, you'll get a yes or no, you won't get something around, you know, some cultures are more indirect, Japan being like the most indirect, you'll never get a yes or no, or maybe you'll never get a no. Argentinians will just say like, no, that's not going to happen. And it may come off as rude, but then the way I see it is just like you are reducing, like it's time effective, right? And I am very like that. So I mean, I've come across those challenges where it's like, I think Vicky, you're being like very straightforward and you know, sounds kind of bad or like kind of military, but then I don't know, I just think it's effective. And I think that is something that has to do with the Argentinian way and that may come as something of a disadvantage. But I really think that if you know that it's not personal, it's just the way we are, then it's good and it's quick and it's fast and then you'll just go grab a beer and everything will be fine. I mean, work is work, right? So yes, I think that's a good tip.

Good. Thank you. I just have a few more fun questions here, Vicki. You've obviously traveled quite a bit outside of Argentina. If you could think about the best purchase you've made outside of the country, and we'll say, like, within a budget of $50 or so, so $0 to $50, what would you say? What would you say is the best purchase?

Yeah, I've got that answer. Like, I don't even have to think about it. I bought during that trip, during that trip where I told you I was in Costa Rica, like, sending my CV. for my first job interviews, uh, I bought this dress in Panama, which was like, I don't know, maybe $12. Uh, I still have that dress. I still use it and it's perfect and I love it. I mean, that has had the better, like, return on investment. It was amazing.

I love it.

I love that dress. That's a no-brainer for me. Like, It's faded steps.

Excellent. Obviously, English is not your first language, but you're very fluent in it. Do you have a favorite English word?

I don't know. I mean, I do have some words in Spanish which I think sound funny, but then a word in English. I think like the word flake, kind of like, I don't know why, but I just think it's like cute and it always sounds good. You know, it's like flake. I don't know. I just, I love the word.

That's great.

I know it doesn't make any sense. It's just the sound of it. I just think it's cute.

I love it. Excellent. Well, Vicki, it has been just a great pleasure having you on the show. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about Disney and perspectives and startup and marketing life. So thank you for your time. Let me just give a shout out to our sponsor here, Plug Technologies. That's plugg.tech. Plug provides software developers all over Latin America for US companies. Vicky, thanks again, and hopefully we'll see you soon.

Thank you, Brian. It was great. I had a lot of fun. So thanks for having me.

All right, we'll see you all soon on the next show. Thank you.

Thanks for joining us at the Nearshore Cafe podcast. Tune in next week for a new episode featuring another special guest with exciting stories.