💵 Understanding LATAM Labor Costs⚡️ Marketing & Design | 🎙 The Nearshore Cafe Podcast

Welcome everyone to another edition of the Nearshore Cafe podcast. I'm Brian Samson, your host. This is season 2. Season 2, we get into it. And if you're interested in what things cost, what labor costs, especially in the marketing design world in Latin America, you are going to be blown away on this podcast as we have Grace Portillo on on the show. Let me first thank our sponsor and then we'll welcome Grace. This podcast is sponsored by Plug Technologies, plugg.tech. Plug is the best way to connect Latin America software engineers with growing US companies. Grace, thrilled to have you on today.

This is so much fun. Thanks for having me, Brian.

Absolutely. Grace, I'm not going to beat around the bush. We'll talk about a bunch of other stuff in a minute, but I think a lot of our listeners are what I call nearshore curious. Like, they hear about talent in Latin America. Maybe they've outsourced before, maybe they haven't. And nobody wants to just come out and say, like, Well, what does it cost? You know, because then they feel obnoxious or something. But we're going to try to answer some real questions for people today. So maybe just take like a minute if you don't mind and give people a little bit about where you're coming from. Like, you know, you're a marketing professional. Tell us about, you know, some of the different roles you've had, the types of companies you've worked with. And that will give, give people a nice foundation here.

Wonderful. So I started working at Mural, a tool. I used to go work with clients there, helping them visually create their, their ideas, basically helping them brainstorm everything visually. It's a whiteboard tool. So that was a lot of fun. Ended up project managing at a branding agency and then moved into the recruiting industry. It's been over 5 years now and worked for different companies helping staff tech talent and then ended in this role I'm in now, which is helping marketing and design talent from LATAM connect with US-based growing companies. So, it's been really interesting how I ended up in my own field on my own area, but connecting people, which is something I've always— just came naturally to me.

Yeah. And I think Grace is being humble in that you skipped over a lot of your own marketing skillset and experience. Could you dive into that a little bit more? Like some of the design and content and other things that you personally have done or oversaw?

Yes, I've helped. Well, I'll just speak in, in general. I've helped with branding of the companies I've been involved with, uh, with the website creations. I've helped implement, um, online events, especially in the pandemic. That was honestly the— I was blessed to do that because it was a great way to stay connected and keep things going. And in-person events were clearly not a thing. So kind of continue doing a roundtable of virtual events gave me that connection throughout the pandemic. So anything implementing end-to-end events, anything related to interviewing folks, the branding of the websites and the companies that I've been working with is some of the tasks that I've been helping as well as newsletters, social media.

Yeah, that's a great superpower, I think, to highlight because a lot of recruiters, a lot of talent connectors, you know, I'd like to say we have a mile-wide perspective, but an inch-deep of domain knowledge. And I think you've got a much deeper domain knowledge. So when we're talking about content designers, writers, social media, UI/UX, I could go on, you know, events, there's a lot of different types of talent that companies in the US need as well. What are some things that are kind of like easily outsourced? So if you are a US company, like it doesn't matter if it's Asia or Eastern Europe or onshore, you know, like just a cheaper place in the States, what are, what are some marketing jobs that, that a company would that would be like the first ones they would probably want to outsource?

Content creation, content strategy. I've been looking, talking to a ton of agencies as well and been noticing perhaps more on the design and editing side of things, but there's interest in streamlining editing processes. So everything that is video editing is easy to outsource as well and faster return and as well as clearly cost benefit and animation as well. So anything UI/UX and animation, which is completely different worlds, but I've noticed that this can be streamlined and incorporated into the team and works. There's no fuss there. So that's good.

And then I was going to ask about the event space. COVID, crazy time, virtual events. It seems like there's a lot more in-person events coming back, which is good, good for the world. But there's still virtual events. Is that something that marketing teams tend to outsource or they'll keep in-house? Is the event running?

I guess it needs to be someone. It could be outsourced. It can, it could be outsourced. It needs to be a high-energy person that kind of like gets your, the right panelists in line. And depending if they're hosts of the event or not, because sometimes it can be in the back end and whoever's running it doesn't even show up on the event, on the live event. So if that's the case, I think that the back end, the logistics can totally be outsourced. And I've seen mostly in-house if it's if you're the host of the event.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Content certainly spoke to me, you know, as I think about how much content is created and, you know, 6 months ago I was pretty bullish on ChatGPT, you know, thinking like you could just create, you know, 50 blog articles just like that. But it is really easy to decipher if this is from ChatGPT or somebody actually wrote it, right? So knowing that, maybe talk about the content piece for a second. We don't have to get into Latin America just yet, but just like how heads of marketing might be thinking about content today.

I think that fresh ideas that can come from someone being outsourced are definitely something that can add to the current view of things, especially if they're from different cultures, because we know that we need to speak to the end client, of course, but we might be missing something that can be picked on just because we're in different places, we think differently. I'll get a bit into the Latin America thing because, I mean, it's kind of what I, what where I'm leading to, but I don't know if you've seen advertisement in Argentina. It's insane. It's crazy. They're known for it. They're brilliant at it. So if you get an Argentine content creator, their ideas will be out of the box, outside of the box completely. And you might want to frame them and then they'll work with that, but you'll get fresh ideas. That's for sure. So I'm thinking in just terms of different perspectives and trends as well, which we're all now more aligned. I think after the pandemic, we went more virtual. I used to think that Latin America was a bit behind as the technology speaking and whatnot, but now I think we're all pretty much hooked up all the time. So that's, That's something that I've been noticing, that the trends are the same everywhere now. It's not like, oh, we're behind like it used to be. I noticed that.

Now let me throw out a couple of those roles we talked about and then maybe let's talk about Latin America now. I think this is the right time. So let me throw out a couple different roles. We'll go one by one. Tell me if this was something you were recruiting on, maybe like the number 1 or number 2 places in LATAM that you would source, like where are those pockets of talent? And then just give us some ranges, like in US dollars today, you know, what might that cost per hour or per month? You know, what would that look like? So maybe we'll start with what I think is probably, The most exciting to outsource or nearshore is UI/UX. So where do you start there? You know, someone comes to you, they want a UI/UX designer. What countries? Where would you start? How would you think about it? What would that cost?

UI/UX is one of the most interesting roles as it has different margins across. I've noticed agencies that are offering UI/UX designers and the ranges is just, it's different, right? Cost though, we can, there's a range depending on seniority.

So this would be, and what we're saying is cost is like if the US company just wanted to recruit themselves, they could probably find somebody, but it would be that, that person would cost like $30 an hour all the way up to $50 an hour.

It's like depending on seniority. Yeah, I think that's the most interesting thing of outsourcing nearshore because I know cost isn't attractive, but it's not the main thing. The main thing is quality and it comes with experience because we're talking about comparing an entry-level UI/UX onshore designer versus someone senior in LATAM, which clearly could have already worked with US companies and have industry experience.

So that's a great point. Experience, experience matters because they get their reps, they know what to ask and the research and the user, they know how to think through the workflows and the interaction and the mockups and the storyframes and they've worked on consumer and enterprise and like there's a lot, a lot that goes into it. And if you're starting fresh versus somebody who's had a lot of reps, it's wildly different. So maybe that's what you're hitting on is that, you know, $50 an hour doesn't seem that cheap, but it's certainly a great value when you think about how much experience you're buying.

And you will definitely see it from these portfolios. I mean, I've noticed, going back to your question, Argentina, Uruguay, I'm starting to see some in a little above. Well, I'm down below right now, so I say above, but I'm noticing a couple profiles in Colombia I've been interested in recently. But I would pinpoint in Argentina and Uruguay as having great potential in UI/UX design and already experienced with working for United States. Yeah.

Now when people think about content, you know, I'm a, I'm not a marketer myself. I think like, does that mean a blogger? So maybe, maybe help us think through like what are like, what types of content would people outsource? And then same, same types of questions for, for those roles.

I guess it depends on your team and how involved you're in with the current strategy. I don't know, maybe there's companies that don't have a marketing team and need to get on social media and need content generated and need a, like, full end-to-end plan. Um, in that case, you would need to outsource strategic, like, uh, someone that helps you with the strategy of your content and helps you pull through between copywriting as well and content creation, which can be always obviously design and but also can be interviews and get a little more creative on on how you can work across teams with your, maybe your customer support team, and then get some real insight from users or clients and then portray that, as well as with a marketer working together with the HR team and perhaps getting some culture visible, like give some culture, give the culture some visibility. That's what I meant. So I'm thinking it depends on the team, but if and how much they want this person involved. I always think that the best content is the ones that tells a story and it's genuine. And in order to get that, you would have to share a bit of information of your team and give them access to, as I mentioned, even sales team. Why not? Because I mean, Marketing and sales have a lot to do. Yeah. And I think that cross-team collaboration is crucial for generating genuine content and actually visible, like just making visible things that perhaps aren't already.

Yeah.

What are your users saying? What is your— how's your employees feeling about working at your company? How— so I think it's Yeah. It ties in nicely.

Yeah. What does that cost? Like, let, maybe let's break that up. There's the strategy part and I'm glad you brought that up. I'm gonna come back to that in a second. And then more of the execution, you know, if you want writers versus idea people versus strategy people, you know, where do you go? What does that cost?

Strategy, I would say, at least $20 an hour depending on the seniority as well. This is always a range, but starting from $20 to $25. And I would, um, price the content like more of a generators, right? Like working under someone else's strategy or working together with the other resource that helps with the plan, like plan everything. That would be, um in between $15,000 to $18,000. So to give you an idea, and depends clearly on, on experience, on seniority, but those are the rates that we've been seeing.

Sure, sure. And would you start in Argentina or any other countries you look at too?

It depends on the role exactly. For example, I've noticed Colombia has great paid marketing contractors. I've noticed Uruguay and Argentina have great designers. Then as well as the whole copywriting thing, Central America, which is kind of like more on the backyard of the States, if you may, is more in tune with how to communicate things and kind of like lingo. And so it's depending on which particular role you're assigning. But copywriting is interesting, but definitely Central America, I would say.

Yeah. Now strategy is a really interesting topic 'cause for me, I think there's two crucial parts. The first is being able to ask great questions, okay? And the second is this kind of cultural norm of being able to tell your client what they really need to hear versus what they want to hear, right? You know, and I think, you know, I'll just come out and say it, you know, call me controversial, but I think Asia really revolves around harmony. You don't want to create disharmony by telling someone a truth that might hurt their feelings. Like, hey, I think you're going in the wrong direction. You need to change this right now. This is a bad decision. I don't think you would get that in Asia, especially from a consulting firm. Talk about those two things in Latin America and maybe how evolved they are, being able to ask good questions and then being able to tell clients really what they, what they should be hearing?

Great question. I honestly think it's all cultural. So I think in Latin America, the more involved you're in something, the more serious you're taking it, the more respectful you are towards the opportunity. Instead, I Like, if you, if you keep yourself into the margin and don't want to like share your ideas because you don't want to make a fuzz, you don't want to like— I mean, you're just there to execute, right? Um, if we're talking about Asia, I feel like I— that's what I sense. This is just my opinion, but, um, I do see that they don't want to get involved. They just want to execute. They want to do their job and nothing else, which is perfectly acceptable. But what I think, um, is a Latin thing, is that we're passionate about things. So we will share our opinion. And sometimes I've been in rooms where it's like, thanks Grace, that's wonderful, not necessary. Or you hear contractors being like, oh, I shared how this strategy was not really what we needed to do like at the moment. This other idea worked better. And then the end client was very excited to actually get that comment. Because, because of that change, they saw way bigger impact. So I'm thinking that, uh, it depends. I know outsourcing to just get the job done works, but getting a perspective, an opinion of a seasoned contractor that's working with different U.S. clients and knows your industry is always welcome. So I think it's of great value. Okay. Just the need to know how to say it and when to say it, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. As you said, passion, I definitely heard that. I've received that because I've worked cross-culturally and you can't beat the passion coming out of Latin America. So sometimes it takes a minute to understand that that's actually enthusiasm. Let's talk about a couple other roles. We'll say social, like social media. That seems quite hot. Everything from Instagram and TikTok to whatever else is out there today. And then maybe also, and actually I would even mention LinkedIn. And then the other is you brought up video animation. You know, as we've seen the world really move to more and more video and reels and things like that. Video animators are, are really important. Um, talk about those two roles. Where are you looking? What, what might that cost somebody?

Wonderful. Uh, let me start with the video editor editing role that you just mentioned. Uh, so advertisement agencies are always in need of someone that helps them edit content. As well as if you want to connect with a contractor that's helping you to help your projects, I would start in Colombia or Argentina. I've been like naming the same countries, but that's where I've been noticing some great profiles on video editing as well. So I would start there. The cost of that, let's talk about $22,000 approximately, from $20,000 to $22,000. This is pure cost, right? So if it's like hired directly, and depending on the seniority, depending on the task, but we know that these are in demand with even influencers need video editors. So not only advertisement agencies and big clients, but even like little clients need to outsource and it will be of benefit because the, the, there's a 40% cost opportunity there per hour is pretty much almost double in the States. So this is why there's a, there's an interest there of trying to outsource editing projects.

And then you mentioned, you know, I'm sorry, I was, yeah, just with the, with the social for a second. Is there something cultural or something in the water, you know, in Colombia that's maybe that like they've just got it or they just have a long history of producing this type of talent that makes that come to mind first for you?

More so for the video editing, I said. For social media, no, I would say for social media, I've had great experience meeting people from Mexico. And just because I think it's proximity maybe. Be. It's proximity, uh, Central America and Mexico, um, have the link go down, um, perhaps have more experience with US clients. I feel that it's happening in South America, but, um, top of mind would be Mexico, definitely, for, um, someone that helps you as a marketing coordinator, for someone that helps you with social media, uh, management or strategy. Noticed some great profiles from, from there.

That's great. That's great. Yeah. Well, we're teasing a lot around Central America. So I want to, I want to take this here. I want to go a little more into just, you know, your personal history. We really want to highlight, we've been talking a lot about Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia, Mexico today. Um, but you're from Central America. Uh, tell us more about where you grew up, what that was like, and then how in the world you ended up in, in Patagonia.

Yep. Okay, so I'm originally from El Salvador. I was born in San Salvador. Um, I stayed there until I finished high school, let's say age 18. I visited my best friend She's Argentine, so I just came for a vacation, and I was thinking of where to go to college. I had Vancouver in mind, like completely random. I was inclined to a more— I was always on the artist path, I think, a creative side of things, and I visited Argentina and noticed the difference of cultures. Uh, so Central America is more, um, I guess, how can I say this nicely, um, it's a bit more conservative. It's, I guess, traditional. It's just you're expected to, to be this at this age and And then I came to Argentina and there's, it's just a bigger city, of course, like we're talking El Salvador is the tiniest country of Latin America. And then I came to Argentina and landed in Buenos Aires and that was like, okay, this is a big city. Everyone is who they really want to be. And you don't have to like follow the sheep, you know? So that's what got me excited because, um, I think culturally my combination has Um, like, my combination of places has to do a lot with my personality. Um, if I hadn't moved to Buenos Aires, I wouldn't have that, like, sass and, like, um, risk-taking and, like, um, audacity— I think it's the word I'm looking for. Um, I would be perhaps more, um, just nod and say yes, just because it's, it's part of a culture, you know. I don't want to, like, stir it up. People love to stir it up in Argentina. We know this everywhere. Um, you go to a football game, uh, they stir it up. You go to a concert, I mean, it's the best crowd in the world. So it's that passion that gets you involved with things. It also affects your, like, character, like, and your day-to-day, you know. Like, one thing I will share that's funny because every Central American that hears this will find truth in this is that we're very, our culture is like, we say thank you a lot. And I know you've noticed it as well. We say thank you, like, thank you, or what can I do? Like, we're very like, kill them with kindness is our motto. And here I'm now in Patagonia and I ended up in the south after the pandemic, But in Argentina as a whole, it's not so always the Mr. Nice Girl. No, you kind of like say it as it is. You're straight on, it's direct, it's a no. So we kind of play it nice. In Central America, and I feel it's a bit more sassy down south. Yeah.

For those looking to say outsource to Central America, what are, what are some of the more common jobs that, that they might look at? And I don't mean to blend it all together because I know like there's several countries there, they all have their own, their own specialties. So however you want to, you want to play with that question.

I think Central America is definitely going to be on the spotlight for different roles. I know that their attention has been kind guided towards BPO sorts of roles, anything support, customer success, or attention have been kind of like the more usual roles that we've been noticing that are kind of like being assigned to those countries. But there's definitely potential for more creative things as I think going all fully virtual shake things up. And there's people that upskilled and they're getting also encouraged by other contractors throughout Latin America. And I've noticed there's an increase of like programming interest, of UI/UX interest, like even within my network of my hometown, I've noticed that. So it's interesting to see what will happen in a couple of years because for now those are the roles that have been assigned, but it's skills are are being polished.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that. I could see that. Um, tell us some more about just the, like, the food, the culture, you know, in El Salvador.

Oh man, I missed that so much. Um, it's— we love corn. We— okay, you might have heard, uh, of an arepa. So you might have heard of an arepa, which is— there's always like fights between countries. Oh no, the arepa is my typical food. No, it's mine. Well, we kind of have something similar going with Guatemala and our famous pupusas, which are a corn tortilla filled with, um, cheese and bean paste, and it can have some meat as well. Like, uh, you make, um, chicharrón, it's called. But then we can— and then we eat it with, uh, with a little like sauerkraut, if you may, and, uh, sauce. So it's kind of a veggie cabbage, onion, carrot, and then a sauce on top, which is absolutely delicious. If you haven't tried a pupusa, I'm sure you can find one in the US. Um, They're everywhere. And they're not to be found in Patagonia, though. I cannot find those. I need to make them myself. And I guess it's just more flavor. I don't want to diss on Argentine food. I mean, I'm here, but there's more— I love spicy, so I'm just taking my spicy sauce in my purse here because nobody—

Yeah, you can't find spicy in Argentina.

It's We'll bring you butter to the table. I'm like, come on.

Um, so yeah, yeah, steak and salt is kind of the, the thing, right?

Yeah. Which, I mean, I can't argue, it's great. But, um, yeah, we also have great, um, seafood in El Salvador. There's a lot of beaches. So every time I go back, the first thing I do is drive to the beach and have a fish ceviche, of course, and a michelada, which we kind of like also share that, um, that passion with Mexico of micheladas. We spice our beer like it's a Bloody Mary, if you may. So imagine a Bloody Mary, but instead of tomato juice and vodka, beer. So we love that. I mean, poolside, poolside vibes, just having a watery mouth right now, just wanting one.

Love it. That's great. So for those that don't know, Grace, as you mentioned, you're a creative, you're an artist, you're a musician. Let's just take a minute, tell our audience more about that and where they can find you.

Wonderful. So yeah, I have, I guess, two sides or maybe more, but at least two sides. Let's keep it at two. It's like a cassette. Well, first side, definitely what we've been speaking about. But then I have this artist singing facet of mine that I have a project called Grace and Bad Love. I love writing my own music, soul music. And with that name, you can actually just find me in any platform. Is something I like to— I like to have two sides. I like to have two sides. It keeps me forever a student in two worlds. So I think you're— the key is to keep always learning new things, right? And to balance things out. Like, music is something I love to do and it's my passion, but I learn a ton of developing my professional career as well and not putting pressure on the artist side and just doing it because I choose to do it, not because it has to work. You know, so that's kind of what I love to have, to be a cassette, I guess.

That's great. Good answer. Good answer. A couple of questions we always ask on the pod, Grace. Obviously you're an advanced English speaker, but not your first language, Spanish obviously being that. So we like to ask our English second language guests if they have a favorite word or phrase from the English language?

I guess it's just something that's currently in my mind. I like ephemeral a lot.

Interesting word. That's a good one. That's a good one. I like that. Any reason behind that, or do you like to try to drop that once a day in your conversation?

No, no, I actually— it's related to music, so I am creating a song that's called Ephemero in Spanish, and I was like, how do you say that in English? And it's like, oh, it's pretty similar but different. It's not easy to have this bilingual brain. Sometimes I say things that make sense, but sometimes I have to stop and think the right way to say it.

Yeah, it makes me think it's probably good for minds like yours to find a Spanglish type of company. Right. Where you can, you can go back and forth. And the last question we have for you, Grace, is, you know, as you've traveled throughout Argentina, you're in Patagonia. Any special purchases you can think of? You know, we're thinking around like that under $50 US range. Anything that sticks out that you bought in the last few years?

I honestly think Well, besides wine, obviously, um, which is wonderful down here. Mendoza and, uh, Patagonian wine is fabulous. My favorite is Pinot Noir. If I could— probably a bottle, a good bottle of Pinot Noir will be under $50, and, uh, well-aged, something that would be a fortune, uh, in the States. So I would definitely go with wine.

I can definitely concur with that. Well, Grace, such a pleasure having you on the show. Just really loved how deep you went into what it's really like, you know, recruiting, finding talent, El Salvador, your career. We covered a lot of ground today, so really appreciate having you on the show.

This was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. Well, once again, thanks to our audience for listening to the Nearshore Cafe podcast. We're in season 2. You can find us at nearshorecafepodcast.com. And once again, we want to thank our sponsor, Plug Technologies, plug.tech. Great way to find software engineers for US companies from all over Latin America. Thanks again, everyone. We'll see you soon.