How This Christian Entrepreneur Grew to 3 Million Subscribers

You convinced me and my entire team you need to really put your emphasis on YouTube.

I can post a video today, and if I do it right, it can still be watched not just tomorrow, but 6 months from now, 2 years from now, even 6 years from now. I have 14-year-old videos that still get views, that are still growing subscribers. If compound interest is the 8th wonder of the world, YouTube is the 9th wonder of the world.

I think about, okay, I'm reading, let's say, a book by A.W. Tozer. He was 100 years ago. C.S. Lewis. These guys' messages, they lasted through generations. Could it be that YouTube is going to be like that video-wise? Um, hey everybody, welcome to the John Bevere Podcast. I am going to divert today from our study on 2 Peter, and I am so excited about this podcast because I have somebody on that I greatly respect. This is a man of God that you're going to be listening to today, but God has raised him up to speak to the marketplace. He's an entrepreneur. His name is Sean Cannell. Sean, I want to welcome you to the podcast. It's great to have you on.

John, thank you so much for having me. This is, man, such an honor, and it's really kind of a full circle moment. For decades now, your ministry, your books,, and some of just the foundational messages that have impacted my life and business have been, uh, from Messenger International. And so thank you so much for having me.

And so Sean, let's just pick it up with, you know, a lot of these people, they don't know you really well. So can you give us a little of the backstory here? You know, basically who you are, how you got started.

I'm actually a small town kid, grew up in an hour north of Seattle in a small town, and my parents, actually sent me to private school, a private Christian school, because at my local public school, they were worried about me getting in trouble. And their worries were really well-founded because I definitely found myself into bad circles and got into drugs. I eventually got expelled from that private Christian school, and it sent me down for my kind of senior year where I was going to a local community college to finish high school, just really stuck in kind of like rave culture and drugs, and I hit rock bottom, kind of a prodigal son. And I think also a part of that that your community would understand was my mom has always been incredible, my stepdad, but my mom's really been a prayer warrior, has always been seeking Jesus. But we were also kind of in a seeker-friendly church, and I wasn't— I was raised with some Christian values, but we weren't seeing the moving of the Holy Spirit, or we weren't really seeing passion for the word of God, or even deep discipleship happening. Church was kind of— we were kind of cultural Christians. And I think I rejected that as a young person, you know, looking for maybe that's— there wasn't the power there. There wasn't, you know, um, that fire of God there. And of course, taking full responsibility, I, I strayed. But after hitting rock bottom, there was kind of, uh, my parents mentioned I have some missionaries in my family, and they said, what would you think about going to Bible college in Canada. And, you know, even a few months before, and I would've thought that's gonna be super boring. If I'm gonna go to college, I wanna go to a cool college where I could like live it up and whatnot. And they were talking about this small college that some of my relatives went to, uh, in the middle of Three Hills, Alberta called Prairie Bible Institute. And now we're outside of Calgary. But I, I knew at that moment I came to myself like the prodigal son and. And I, I knew at that moment that, man, I kind of need to get away from this friend circle. I need to just get separated. It wasn't even really to seek God. I just need, whatever I'm doing is not working, being kind of stuck in party culture and this is going nowhere. And in doing so, that first Certificate of Bible year that I went to Prairie Bible Institute, for the first time in my life, I got into the word of God for myself. Old Testament study, New Testament study. And I began to get a scriptural foundation of, look at all of these prophecies over thousands of years that came true in Christ. Well, look at the foundations of my faith. And I kind of started to have this head knowledge reshaping of, of, uh, what the foundations of my faith would be. But then while I was gone, my parents actually found another church, and in our small town, they found this church where there was authentic revival happening and there was radical generosity taking place and altar ministry and word of knowledge and authentic prophecy and all of this stuff. And they actually thought at first, like, I don't— when Sean comes home from Bible college, he might think this is too crazy. They might think this is weird. But when I thought, like, no, that sounds amazing. And one of the things that was life-changing to now being in I'm doing video today, was when I came home or was coming home for summer break, having studied the word, one of the powerful stories was learning about how David was walking on his front porch and he should have been at war, but he wasn't. And because he wasn't busy and plugged into the call of God, he was able to then, you know, see Bathsheba. And we know that then that led to his downfall in that moment. So I thought, okay, I'm coming home and I still love some of my old friend circles and whatnot. In fact, I wanna minister to them, but I also know that my self-control, my willpower, I can't put myself in these environments, but I certainly could invite them into what I'm doing now. So I, sight unseen with this new church, said, hey, could you introduce me to the youth pastor? Could you introduce me to the, the team there? And could I— I'm gonna do online classes, I'm gonna get a job, and I'm gonna serve in church, so I have no time to get in trouble. That was the logic. I had no— I didn't know anything about church. And so they met, they introduced me to the youth pastor. There's like 16 kids in the youth ministry, and this is 2003, and that is when the youth pastor handed me a video camera and Adobe Premiere editing software and said, hey, what if you start making videos for the youth ministry? There's no budget, there's no money, there's no, there's nothing happening yet. But that's really where I then got plugged into video. And of course, John, those videos were terrible, right? So embarrassing. But in 2003, planted in the house of God, I started to get into video and it was, it wasn't like that was my vision. It just was, I wanted to be faithful and, and, and stay outta trouble. And so now, you know, fast forward to today, it was in that local church where I self-taught, started learning video. We started a YouTube channel for the church in 2007 and actually did a, like, a vlog for the pastor. This is so early. A lot of times churches are behind. Like, we did a vlog for the pastor, couple episodes. And so now I've been doing YouTube for 17 years, video for 20 years. And I'm also so grateful for that church because they started to do some different events like marketplace ministry. And I think we had an event called, uh, Power to Produce, talking about the Deuteronomy— God gives you the power to produce wealth. And so even though I really learned so many skills, team building, falling in love with Jesus, and even spiritual gifts, I always felt that pull to the marketplace and really started to see social media and YouTube as a mission field. And so with many years spent in the local church and in ministry, eventually we launched what we are doing today, and that became my foundation. And I'm so grateful because it wasn't also just the head knowledge side of things, but being in an environment where I really cultivated a relationship with the Holy Spirit and realized, man, I need the presence of God. My— the only protection or the only way that I can stay steady is if I'm plugged into the vine. And that's kind of the history of, of what led to where we are today.

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Yeah, you know, in those early days, and actually our pastor in those days went to a a conference in Hawaii called the Increase Conference. And I think actually it was around there, he, he heard about Twitter and now Twitter is called X and, and, uh, it's, it's a great platform. And these are the early days of Facebook. And so essentially my role evolved to become the director of church communications and, um, and being in, in that whole digital side, email marketing and all of that stuff. So I was just paying attention to all the different platforms. But as I was paying attention to YouTube, the light bulb moment was, as you just said, YouTube is owned by Google and YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world. Google's the first and it's the same company. And YouTube is different than all of the other social media platforms because all the other social media platforms have feeds, Facebook feed, Instagram feed. But what I realized on YouTube, as I started to experiment a little bit with the church content and eventually some of my own content, So I was like, wait a minute, I can post a video today and if I do it right, it can still be watched not just tomorrow, but 6 months from now, 2 years from now, even 6 years from now. And I've been doing YouTube for so long, John, I have 14-year-old videos that still get views that are still growing subscribers. And those 14-year-old videos are really bad. Like I was making so many mistakes and so they were, those were the early days. So then I just thought, man, if I get better at this and I learn kind of how the YouTube algorithm works, all the other social media platforms are content feeds. YouTube is a content library. You know, for someone like yourself and many of the great leaders that listen to this podcast, the power of writing a book is that you can encapsulate wisdom and insights, but you write the book once, but it can continue to impact people for years to come. I think about The Bait of Satan, like how many lives not only have been transformed by that, but are being transformed this year, like today. You know, this year, do you know it's the— but you are talking to me and that book is impacting somebody. YouTube is similar because if you put out educational and informational discipleship, apologetics, and of course in the marketplace, different things, business owners need leads. They want to have continuous awareness. They wanna be growing their business in a scaled, in a leveraged way.. And I think every marketplace leader understands the power of that. They understand the power of compound interest. I wanna invest my money today so it works for me tomorrow. They understand the power of real estate. I wanna buy real estate today so that it appreciates. And that's where now generational wealth and legacy could be created. YouTube, when I started to see that, I was like, man, this, if compound interest is the 8th wonder of the world, YouTube is the 9th wonder of the world. 'Cause if I can post videos today, then that's gonna allow me more scale and more impact. And once that light bulb moment clicked on for me, it got me obsessed with YouTube. And also is why I love talking about it. Thinking about if you wanna grow your church, if you want to spread your message, if you wanna reach more people with your, your book and your content for the different things, or if you wanna start a side hustle, you know, someone's listening to this, they wanna maybe put their creativity out there because they love sourdough bread or, different, you know, DIY or homesteading or these different things. All kinds of people from diverse backgrounds and walks of life can tap into the power of YouTube. And we love all the social media platforms. There's definitely power in them. But when I think about as a father, time is shorter than ever with a 2-year-old and a 4-year-old and family's really busy. I'm always looking for which activities, if I'm gonna invest my, my energy into something, I wanna invest it into something that is gonna give me a return. What can I do today that gives me more time tomorrow and buy back my time? And YouTube is one of those vehicles. So that the light bulb moment was back then and it's still true today. And YouTube is the biggest video platform. It can, it's so, has such a head start and it's so dominate, dominant from a technological standpoint, from the amount of active users, from the amount of reach. And so of course competitors are always trying to think about these other platforms and maybe compete with YouTube. But at this point, the gap is so huge. So even to this day, it's like, where are you gonna plant your flag? Betting on YouTube is a good bet. You know, planting your flag on YouTube content. And it's exciting to see what's happened after us talking with your channel. And it's really just starting. It's a compound effect, a flywheel effect. Each video you are posting can theoretically and potentially continue to multiply, spread, and then they also start to reference each other. So sometimes we say YouTube is, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It can start slow, but as your library grows, just like when I read Beta Satan and then I'm like, wow, this was so incredible. Oh, Driven by Eternity. Oh wow, this was incredible. Oh, Awe of God. Because each, each book now can help me learn about the other books. That's what's happening with video content at scale with YouTube.

Well, you just named two books that are 30 years apart. Are 29 years apart. So this year, Beta Satan turned 30 years old. Of God is 1 year old. So in other words, you just named 2 books that impacted you over a space of 30 years. And I think about, okay, I'm, I'm reading, let's say, a book by Charles Finney or a book by Wesley. I'm a couple hundred years later reading this these writings, or let's say The Pursuit of God, A.W. Tozer. I'm reading that book. He was 100 years ago. C.S. Lewis. These guys' messages, and they lasted through generations. Could it be— and this is just speculative, but I want to hear your opinion because you, you, you're the best expert I know on YouTube— could it be that YouTube is going to be like that video-wise, that these videos are going to last through generations?

Yeah, I think it absolutely will. And I think I could understand the objection to that, that there's so much noise and there's so much information that a lot of—

Wait a minute there. Hold on just a second. I think Amazon has like 2 million books. Yeah. Okay. So let's not say there's a lot of noise because yeah, there may be a lot, but I think the good stuff always rises at the top.

But go ahead. Well, that's absolutely where I was going. So where, where for some it, I wouldn't, it wouldn't be like an overpromise in the sense of, you know, the random video that we uploaded from our phone with no energy and no effort. And it's exactly what you said. I think that for communicators that seek God deeply to be, you know, to, for revelation, for real, you know, insights and also put together their thought leadership into powerful frameworks. I think about like the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Not only is that like continue, or Atomic Habits, it's like one of the newest. We're seeing modern writers still have these perennial type of sellers. So absolutely, Simon Sinek, Start With Why. His TED Talk is, was recorded, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, close to 10 years ago, and yet it can still be providing value today. So that's kind of a little, maybe even a tip and an insight that yeah, we're tapping into the power of this, of the leverage of this platform. But absolutely, I think we will see legacy pieces of content that spread. It reminds me of Seth Godin, who is a very influential marketing voice, and he talks about good ideas spread. It's the reason many of your books are these poignant, clear messages that are able to transcend time and I think we need a lot of that right now because what some people do in social media is they chase trends and they chase fads and they, and you can get some views in the short term on that. But what the world, we're, we're overwhelmed with information, but we're starving for wisdom. And I think real wisdom, like you said, cream always rises to the top no matter how many cups of coffee you pour. And real wisdom will I absolutely think continue to spread in the digital world. And I think there's another piece. I really think about legacy a lot. Like what would it be worth if I could have video footage of my, you know, it's so funny is literally my son just snuck in. I should have locked the door. You literally, there he is.

Legacy.

But what would it be worth to have video footage of, thank you. That's John, that's John Stephen, right? That's John Stephen. He had to get on the podcast with you. Like that was, that was prophetic. Maybe.

I love that. He just, you know, 100, 60 years from now, he'll probably watch it and laugh.

Yeah. And, but what would it be worth if I could see my grandfather who was in the Army Air Corps before it became the Air Force and have him on video of some of his wisdom and, and his ideas. So beyond, of course, let's be bestsellers or, build big brands or big churches or big businesses. But I also just think about video in terms of, yeah, we're living in this digital age where we can package wisdom that we would want to pass down to our children's children. And, um, absolutely YouTube compared— you can't search Instagram very well, you know, you're just scrolling to the feed. But YouTube is this— the best search and discovery engine because more of catalog of content and that body of work collectively just continues to grow.

So let me ask you, I'm going to— you got a lot of people that are watching that are pastors, that are people that are business people that want to expand their business through YouTube. Help us with some of the specifics. I mean, do I talk about issues of today? Because if I talk about— okay, let's just The— what was the big one? The eclipse of April, right? It was like all over YouTube. Nobody's even thinking about it anymore, right? So I know when I write books, I always think timeless. So I'm thinking 2 generations from now are going to be reading this, and I want to write it in a way that they can understand it 2 generations from now. Now, I know, of course, I'm not— my examples are still going to have the early 21st century examples. I, I get that, but I'm thinking this will speak to somebody 200 years from now. Do you want to do the same thing on YouTube or do you want to do a combination? I mean, what would be your advice to us?

Yeah, I think the most strategic advice is it's both. And this is the two buckets of content that you can create. One is evergreen content, closer to timeless, you would call that, you know, growing up in Seattle, the reason it's called evergreen, is because we have evergreen trees. And so summer, spring, winter, fall, the trees are green all year long. And so another term would be shelf life. Will this piece of information, will this content be relevant, not just the week that I posted online or on YouTube, but could people keep watching it for months and for years to come? The other bucket of content would be trending content, and whether you're a pastor, whether you're a business owner, there's value to both. The value of trending content is if we think about wanting to just reach somebody new, like if I'm a local pastor, I've heard this attributed to a lot of preachers. One was Charles Finney. I'm not sure who actually said it. That was, you know, I've got the Bible in one hand and a map of the human mind in the other, or I've got the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other hand. I think it's something powerful about jumping on the news, jumping on trends, because when you do so, you're relevant in the moment and you might meet somebody you've never met before. You might bring wisdom to a cultural issue and that person might say, wow, that makes a lot of sense. Or I, you know, there's a lot of clarity there and they click on your bio and they see that, oh, that church is 15 minutes from me. And the reason you reached that person is because you were talking about a trend. And even though the content, to your point, spikes up fast, but it also crashes just as fast. It's relevant this week, but everybody forgets about it next week. There's sometimes sprints of growth and practically on YouTube, new subscribers because, and, and if we also maybe talked about in, in your situation, it's thinking about timeless. You have all of these timeless messages and you want to get those in people's hands. But your insights and your wisdom about what's happening now could help you meet somebody that doesn't know you yet. And then in doing so, they start listening to the podcast, they start checking out your stuff, and they go, oh wow, I would love— and then that deep transformational message, you know, the event you just spoke at, we had Dave Ramsey as well, and they kind of also talk about short form versus long form. They're like, we don't think we can change anybody's life with short form content. Maybe an idea, but that's— it's so ephemeral. It's here, it's gone. And there's not real transformation that happens there. But we do know we could change someone's life in our longer shows, and mostly in our books and materials. So you sometimes kind of think about it, the reason to jump on a trend or do some viral short-form content is that a percentage of people can then eventually get the Avodah audiobook, listen to the that content and their, not just their life, but their legacy now as a father, as a husband, as they're leading their team. So I think that doing trending content is, is an important part of the strategy, but also then thinking about the evergreen content. And if I'm a local church pastor, I think one of the opportunities is to think about, you know, we might title our sermon the Cloud by Day and Fire by Night series. Okay, cool. But like, what does that actually, like, what does that mean if you don't have some insider knowledge about the Bible as opposed to frame, even if that was what the sermon's titled, when you post it online, you post it on YouTube, can you frame it around something practical? Like, you know, how to grow closer to God through prayer. And we have one strategy, we call it ASQ. It's answer specific questions. If you go to YouTube right now and anybody could type try this while listening, and they type in, what does the Bible say? What YouTube does, it's called autocomplete, or it's called— it finishes your sentence for you. If you go to Google, if you go to YouTube, what does the Bible say? And it'll say about war, about Israel. Those are some of the top ones right now. It's actually always changing. What does the Bible say about marriage? When you start tapping into those things, well, If you put out hopefully theologically, doctrinally accurate, also well communicated, you know, maybe good opening, a little bit of story that pulls it all together so that it's consumable. Well, then answers to these questions can be viewed that's evergreen now, and it could be very timely if you could do both. Because what does the Bible say about war, Israel at this exact moment? Would be a both/and because while that video may continue to get views for even years to come, it's gonna get a lot more views because these are the things that are top of mind right now. So I do think having the Bible in one hand and having a map of the human mind and the newspaper in the other is kind of critical for modern communicators in general, but especially on social media and YouTube.

So if I heard you right, you're saying you could really combine 'em both. You could almost make it evergreen. Give it a long shelf life by talking about something that's relevant to right now, but really bringing in a more general life principle that will last on it. But I'm gonna ask maybe what might be a stupid question, but I wanna ask it. So I'm a pastor, I'm a leader. What percentage of relevant current issues should I talk about? And what percentage should I talk about that's evergreen? Long shelf life. Would you have a figure in mind like 20/80 or 50/50? I, I, I'd love to hear your expertise on that.

I think 50/50 would be a nice, a nice place to go. I think where I would go is I would follow, and this, this might sound cliché, cliché and spiritual, but I would follow, I would, I would just prayerfully follow, you know, what God is inspiring you in the moment. And I would then— if— because, God, give me wisdom, give me insight. The sons of Issachar, they knew the signs of the times, and they knew what path Israel should take, or what Israel—

this is why I love you. You're a man of the spirit.

Go ahead. God, give me insight in terms of what's happening right now. But what I would actually probably default to, it'd be kind of be like for the pastor who has a a preaching calendar and a sermon calendar. And some, if we go with extreme Pentecostal, they're like, preaching calendar? That doesn't say to do that in the Bible. It's like, you know, ask the morning of, Holy Spirit, what do you want me to say today? And then the other extreme would be you're planned out and there's maybe no margin for God to say, hey, switch it up, you know? And so what I think I would do is I would have a content calendar that is planned out, but I'd be willing to pivot. And so for me personally, even though I would cover what would be called creator economy news, YouTube news, I'm actually not trying to mathematically do 50/50. I'm trying to wait when I, I'll go to Google News and I'll type in terms. I'll go to Business Insider and I'll type in terms, YouTube, creator economy, brand sponsorships, some of these niches that are directly relevant to what we do. And I'll read through there and see if there's anything there. And there might be some stuff, but I'm not, I'm like, that's not a video. That's not a piece of content I should make. So I would, I would follow the trends when you feel inspired. And then it's also knowing yourself and knowing, you know, what God has, has called you to, uh, the voice and the, the microphone he's given you. Like, I think about my pastor, uh, Russell Johnson at The Pursuit Northwest. Bold, wild, happy to tackle cultural issues. Also spent 10 years in politics. So he's graced and gifted by God to have an articulate voice into specifically political issues. And you think about that, it's a big debate, like, should churches be really loud about politics or quiet? Well, you would know better than me, but I also, it's also gonna come back to like, you probably shouldn't be really loud about politics if you don't know what you're talking about. But he's, graced for it. It's a place of passion anchored in good theology and doctrine and wants to and has a unique voice, and you can see God breathing on it. And so a lot of times not trying to be somebody else, being who you are. So I think if it's trending content, it's like when you feel it, it's not jumping on every issue, but which issues do you feel and that are authentic to you? It's not just chasing views, but that might be the result. The virality and the promotion that comes from it might be the result, but I think that's gonna be anchored in that prayerful You know, also self-awareness of what God has called you to do. I guess, you know, John the Baptist felt that, uh, calling out a political leader and his, um, you know, behavior was, was prophetically part of his voice, or maybe other leaders were a little bit different. So I do, I don't, I don't think that a pastor or even business person should just chase trends and virality and, and step outside of that God-given grace and voice that they have. But man, when you feel it, I think that we don't want to have the fear of man. I've been listening to all of God on audio, be like, man, I don't want to be also afraid of the pushback here. I feel this and I feel God even leading me this way. Maybe whatever the consequences could be.

Not that this always has to stay in your lane is what you're saying. Stay in your lane. I believe God's given all of us lanes to run and we're running a race. Don't race. You know, I think you get in trouble when you cross into somebody else's lane and you're doing it just because you like what they're doing. I think of what God said to Jeremiah. He said, these prophets are stealing their words from one another. And in other words, they're not seeking God and hearing what God wants them to do. And I very much believe that God gives people different voices. I mean, I, I look with such admiration how there are people out there that can speak about eschatology and they do it well and they do it really well. And then you've got people that speak about marriage and they do it really well. Now don't get me wrong, they can speak on other things, but they're very wise in the fact that they stay with what God's called them. I realize God's called me to preach the awe of God. The fear of the Lord is my life message. I realize out of that stems living a godly life, uh, you know, staying free from offense, respecting, you know, authority. But, but I just, I feel like I'm supposed to just stay in my lane. I have great admiration. I look at Russell Wilson who's your pastor. I have, you know, I don't know him well, but I love how you just described how he's responding to the call of God on his life. I think it's wonderful he's doing that. I think all of us should stay very biblically based, but we need to express what's on our life in the manner in which God's given us to do it. So what, what's ahead for you? What, what, what, what do you see coming down the road? I mean, right now I think you have like 50 staff members, or I might be way off on that.

If I remember right, Yeah, we, we're probably, once you get contractors and some of the support roles, but we're, I think, close to 30 W-2s. And then we do have different contractors and agencies or different people we work with. Yeah. You know, I've been thinking a lot about self-awareness, um, and just was on another podcast talking about this, and we were talking about in this creator economy, this whole idea that you could start making videos, from your home office, or you could start making videos from whatever your brand new church like that. The, the, the gatekeepers are gone in terms of the fact that, you know, these tools are so low cost. YouTube is free. But is scaling up a company or growing a company for everybody? And I don't think it is. I think it's self-awareness of knowing, you know, maybe it's, it's 5 talents, you know, 3 talents, 1 talent. Like kind of what is your lane? For me, I actually, it's leadership, it's team, it's culture, and it's stewardship. So a lot of what I think about in terms of Think Media is I'm already just stunned by what's happening. Like, I, you know, I'm a small town kid, college dropout. My wife and I both, she is our CFO, but originally she was running just balancing our checkbook. And it wasn't a very long process 'cause there was not, there was no money to balance. So it just wasn't a lot., and now we're like probably 8 figures this year and it's crazy. So we're rapidly trying to develop new skills, trying to grow as individuals, trying to get the right people on the bus, but also trying to create a culture where, you know, we codified our core values recently and a foundational core value for us is the Bible is our blueprint and purpose-driven, radical generosity, built to last. We have these core values. So to me, it, it's actually really the journey. Of course, it's, it, money is not the number one driver, but we need money for the mission and we need money to take care of our team. We're trying to build a world-class culture and trying to see how God could use our company in the marketplace. And so when I think about stewardship, it's the kids that are being born. Ian on our team is on, uh, um, leave right now with his brand new baby and, and, and thinking about how do we stay in business. I heard that the infinite game. Great book by Simon Sinek was talking about, you know, this isn't necessarily a win-lose thing. We're short-term if we think about that. We're short-term if a company goes public and we're just trying to maximize shareholder value. So we're doing massive layoffs and of course it's gotta happen. But, but if you really think, and this would be, it's tied so into this finish strong kind of awe of God, like with also some of the stuff that's happened in the ministry and, and churches as you talk about. And you said right before we jumped on this podcast, just stay steady, just keep going. There's this Justin Rizzo worship song that says, I want to be found faithful. I want to be found steady and keep me steady until the end. So part of me, John, is like, I just don't want to mess this up. I want to— I want to just keep our team healthy, keep our P&L healthy. Stuart, how far can we go? How much could God do with this? Be at a pace, a sustainable pace and be healthy. And in this environment, you gotta sprint and you gotta be on your toes and you, we definitely have a fast pace in this digital world, but we also are trying to build different and be careful to not imitate some of the, of course, culture or behaviors. You know, we don't wanna conform to the world system, but we wanna be transformed and just thinking about, Hey, if we could still be in business 10 years from now, 40 years from now, 50 years from now, could this be legacy for our kids? I don't know. Because as I mentioned, even where we are now and what does it look like to navigate and innovate with the times, that's where my mindset is. We've got a lot of cool projects and events and things coming up. But man, just built to last, leadership, team. What could God do in the future? That's where my mindset is at. And, It's been a great run so far and the future.

So, you know, I have always believed, Sean, that God will show you an endgame, but he's not going to show you all the steps to get to the endgame. And in other words, he shows— he shows David he's going to be leader in Israel, but he doesn't show David that you're going to be an armor bearer for the king. You're going to end up being rejected by that man. You're going to end up living in the wilderness and caves. You're going to end up in the land of Philistines. He doesn't show Joseph that you're going to be a slave, you're going to be in a dungeon, you know, before all of this, your brothers come in. They— and I like the answer you just gave because for two reasons. Number one, you're open to your vision being expanded by God. You're not feeling the pressure of trying to define, because if you try to define where you're going in 20 years, you might end up defining it smaller than where God wants you to go. I'll never forget when our third-born son came to Lisa and said, "Mom, what has God called me to do?" And the Holy Spirit spoke to Lisa quickly, immediately, and said, "Be very careful how you answer him, because you may limit him with your answer." So she responded, listening to that voice, and she realized, I could actually limit my son by forming his future By the way I see our future has gone, our life has gone and our future is coming. And so, I love the fact that you are thinking secondly about 40, 50 years. I think a lot of people aren't thinking of the end game and they're not thinking about enduring this race. It's not a sprint, it's an endurance run. And I think a lot about finishing well. I'm talking a lot about finishing well. I am actually deep diving and exploring. Why am I in 2 Peter? Because I think 2 Peter tells you how to never fall. That gets my attention. The first chapter, he said, this is what you need to do. Diligently add to your faith what virtue and knowledge and self-control and patient endurance and, you know, the fear of the Lord. And he said, if you do these things, you'll never fall. Now that gets my attention. When God says you will never stumble or fall, I'm like, I'm all in because I am watching so many in the secular arena and in the Christian arena that are falling like flies. They're falling and it's devastating people. It's, you know, I'll never forget when my first pastor had one of the most influential churches in the United States, one of the largest and most influential churches. We had 450 paid staff members, literally on payroll. Our church, and he got up and said, "You know what? The king of Persia put his wife away because she wasn't submissive to him, and he married Esther. I'm divorcing my wife. There's the door if you don't like it." And yeah, the church went down to about 400 people within 18 months. But what was devastating to me is when I flew back and I went to a church down the street, and I ministered at that church and a lot of the members from the previous church were, first of all, not even in church anymore, but the ones that did stay were in that church down the street. I felt like they were spiritual zombies and I saw the fallout. I saw all the divorces that happened, all that. And so, yeah, I mean, the devil doesn't care how big our company grows, how big we grow. If he can get us to fall, the bigger we've become, the more lives that are gonna be negatively impacted. And, you know, Peter talks about these people that have walked off the path and how they have brought a slander to Christianity. They've actually brought disrepute to the gospel. And so, Sean, to hear you speak like that, I just want to put an exclamation point. I want to put emphasis on what you just said. It's very important. You know, my number one ministry goal is, Sean, this is number one. I tell pastors this. Number one, there's no greater ministry goal I have than this one. Number one goal. What's the number one goal? That the day I leave this earth, I'm more in love with Jesus than the day I started ministry. So you and I both, we see people that are in green rooms, they're at conferences getting ready to speak, and it's just an occupation. The passion's gone, the flame is gone. They're cynical. They're jaded. They won't be that way on the platform in front of the public 'cause they know better. But in that green room, you hear cynicism, you hear jaded. Why does that happen? Because those people didn't think about the long game. They didn't realize that their soul health was more important than their actual physical output and productivity. And so the reason I said, when my team came to me and said, what guests do you want on the podcast? You were one of the first people I was like, yes, yes, I want Sean Cannell because I see something in you. I see a man that is actually looking to the future and thinking about his future, thinking about his family, thinking about his relationship with God. And God has given him great success. And the question is, you know, I remember the Lord said to me, he said, most that have fallen have fallen in abundant times, not dry times. He said, every one of my children are gonna be tested in dry times, and in abundant times. And my wife and I were living hand to mouth for 6 years after he said that. He said, I'm gonna begin to bless you beyond your wildest imagination. He said, socially, ministerially, in every way. He said, but it will be your test. And he said, most that have fallen have fallen in abundant times, not dry times. You look at Israel, every time God blessed them, they would somehow just apostatize. It's no different. America, God blessed us and we apostatized as a nation and we're falling hard right now. It's going to take a great awakening to bring us back. It really is. As a nation, we were one nation under God. In 1860, the Supreme Court rules unanimously, unanimously, that if a public school didn't teach the word of God, they wouldn't get government funding. 100 years later, they take the word of God and prayer out of school. Now you look at where we are 60 years later after that. So it's not how you start, it's how you finish. And that's where all of us, and I look at Jesus, and Jesus was more concerned about the rich young ruler's finish than he was his beginning. Because most pastors, including me, 'cause God told me this, he said, this is what you would've done if somebody very wealthy, the most wealthy man and most influential man in a community came running up to me on his knees, grabbed my shirt and said, "What do I do to get saved?" I would have said, "Pray the sinner's prayer." But Jesus loved that man so much, He said, "There is an idol, there's a lover in your life that you've not let go of. For you, it's your money. For others, it's what people think about me, it's my girlfriend, it's whatever." And He said, "You need to break up with that money. It's an idol in you, or else you can't have a true relationship with Me." And the guy walked away sad and sorrowful. And I saw him walking away sad and sorrowful, and the Lord said to me, "Because I was more concerned about how this man would finish than how he would start." And so, Sean, I applaud you for being a man of God in the marketplace, a true servant of Jesus Christ in the marketplace. And I am so thankful that he has made you so successful, 'cause I'd rather see a man like you with the character you have with the vision you have, leading so many people, because you're leading literally probably hundreds of thousands, millions of people. You're leading millions. And I just thank God that he's put a godly man in that place. So I want to applaud you. Thank you. Is there any final closing thoughts we want to— you want to bring out before I tell people how to get in touch with you?

Well, John, thank you for your kind words. And I mean them. It's, it's, it's powerful to hear that from you. And I want to just so grateful for your impact in my life. It was, it was brought to mind as you were sharing all that, actually our company mission. And yeah, kind of that final thought, it just is exactly in line because it's updated since you read the bio and it's, we're on a mission to help 1 million purpose-driven people create a full-time living doing what they love while making a difference in the world with YouTube. Because we do see, especially in these economic times, churches for building campaigns, business owners for leads and customers, or somebody that wants to start a side hustle for whatever their financial goals, as well as media missionaries that want to get their message out to the world. But one of the things that we added to our, uh, mission statement is to experience, you know, help a million purpose-driven people have success on YouTube and experience that success without losing their soul. And We sometimes don't say that publicly when we put it out there, but that our whole team talks about that all the time. And of course, the eternal perspective is what matters most, driven by eternity, but also even just what we're seeing right now, that people are burning out, especially in a lot of burnout, a lot of anxiety, a lot of fatigue, broken marriages or stress on marriages. And, and so it's one of the reasons why everything you're doing resonates with me. And I want to thank you for your uncompromising commitment to the gospel. Where culture is pushing the church to water down their message or to seeing so much of, of the world's ways coming into the church. It's so needed. And I hope that everybody in our community— that's why we'll continue to talk about you. I can't wait to have you on our podcast. I want people connected to truth like you're sharing because we want to ultimately have people experience that success without losing their soul. And what good is it to climb to the top of the mountain only to realize you climbed the wrong mountain? Or if at the end of my life I have the applause of the crowd, but I have lost the love and respect of my wife and children, then I failed. And so trying to define success correctly. And so that's kind of been the path we're on. And I'm so grateful for the chance to get to share today.

And thank you so much for having me. Well, we're covenant brothers and we're covenant friends.. And you know that I'm here to help. And Lisa and I are here to help you guys, you and, and you and Sonya anytime you need it. And we just love and admire what you're doing. I want to say this. You can go to @SeanCannell. And now everybody, we'll put this on the screen, but it's C-A-N-N-E-L-L. You can go @ThinkMedia, just as it sounds. You've got Think Media Podcast and you've got Video Influencers. All 4 of those, we'll put those up on the screen. We'll put them— or maybe not. On the screen, but in the, the more where people can get ahold of you, 'cause I wanna see people get underneath your leadership because I believe YouTube is a platform to be able to share what God's put in our lives with others and be able to enhance their lives and improve their lives through that. I just wanted to end with a funny story I just thought of. I don't know if you'll even remember this, but the first time I came and spoke for you, we were both a little nervous because it was not a Christian event. You've got all these business owners, these people out there pay a lot of money and come to the conference. He said, John, I want you to share the gospel. And then you kind of called me and you said, maybe you could do it without using Scripture. And I said, Sean, honestly, do you want— do you want John Bevere the way God's gifted him? If you do, I've got to bring Scripture into this. And you said, you know what, preach the Word of God, just do it. And I said, okay. So I remember getting up and there was about 800 people in the room.. And I remember the altar call. I think it was close to— the first time it was close to 200, if I'm not mistaken. Am I wrong or right on that? That's exactly right. But the story I remember is the man that was so mad because he paid the money to come to the conference and here's a preacher up there. I threw the first scripture up and he was so mad he went to get up and his legs wouldn't move. Do you remember this story? Yes. He tried again to get up and his legs wouldn't move. He tried a third time, his legs wouldn't move. So finally he just thought, what's going on? And he started listening and he ended up receiving the word of God. And when he went to stand up to receive Jesus, because I had them all stand up, it was like 200 of them, his legs worked and he stood up and he came. I never met that man, but he came and shared it with your leaders. And I just think, you know, this is a company that honors Jesus. This is a company that is blowing up in the secular world, in, in the marketplace. And yet God is blessing this company because they honor him. God said, I will honor those who honor me, and I will lightly esteem those who lightly esteem me. You don't lightly esteem Jesus. You don't lightly esteem what God's placed on your life and the calling on your life and your mission in this earth that he's given you to do. You honor him in it. And because of that, he's going to continue to honor you. And Sean, I see a very bright future. For Think Media, for Sean Cannell, for Sonya Cannell, for their children. And I just want to applaud you. You got it. You got a big fan in John Bevere. And thank you so much for coming on today. And I hope everybody will get out there and learn from you as our team has learned from you.

So thank you again for being on. Thank you, John.

So grateful.