Millions of Christians are leaving their faith. Why?

Why in the world am I doing a podcast right now? There is something that I discovered 2 years ago this month, in March of 2022. A very deep dive study on the state of Christianity in America. What they discovered riveted me. 1 out of every 10 Americans have walked away from the faith since the year 2000, a total of 30 million. These are people who went to church regularly, they prayed regularly. Not one of those 30 million ever thought, I'm going to walk away from the faith. But yet now many of them don't even believe he exists. And I'm thinking, what have I not done? I'm thinking, what have we not done? Welcome to the John Bevere Podcast, Arden and all my friends. Now let me just say this. I'm a little uncomfortable with the term John Bevere Podcast. It sounds a little haughty to me, but I do realize this is where people can find this program. So I'm okay with it on that level.

It's name recognition.

That's all it is. Recognition is branding, right? And so, Arden, I want to say this is the pilot. This is the very first one. And so I want to set up the vision of why we're doing this, because it's not like I need another thing on my plate.

Yeah. Well, Dad, I'm honestly honored that I get to do this with you because I have watched for so long. You stand so firmly for truth, and then you also explain truth in such incredible ways that simplifies it. But you do it so well through the word of God. And I watched as, you know, a kid, you grow up coming in and explaining something that you've read 20 times in the word and explaining it in such a new and interesting way that we're like, we've never seen that before. And you even saying like, I've never seen this before. And I'm excited for listeners to be able to see in on that?

Well, I believe that's a gift of God and the gift of God's— the gifts that God gives each of us, they're not for us, they're for everybody else. So that's a gift of God for all the people that are listening, for you, for the family, anyone God was having me speak to. And it's really important that we are faithful to what he entrusts in us. But that's another podcast, another time.

Exactly.

Because what I want to do, Arden, is I want to set up why in the world am I doing a podcast right now? Well, there is something that I discovered 2 years ago this month, in March of 2022. I discovered that Barna did a very deep dive study on the state of Christianity in America. They were actually hired, I think, by the International Bible Society to do this. I might be wrong on my facts on that. However, they interviewed or they researched and did a survey of over 95,000 people. So we're talking about a massive, massive study here. What they discovered riveted me. They discovered this, that over 30 million— now I want to set this up. I want everybody to stop and think about 30 million. There is a total, Arden, of 330 million Americans. So we are talking about 10%. 1 out of every 10 Americans have walked away from the faith since, since the year 2000. Now, that's riveting. These are people who went to church regularly. They prayed regularly. Now they are not going to church. They are not praying. And they are professing agnostics, atheists, and spiritualists. Like, I have a pastor friend. He just had a couple come up to them— to him, said they had 3 sons that were all called to ministry. All 3 sons went to universities, different universities. They all came back. Professing to be agnostics. I mean—

And can I actually even say this? I just had one of the pastors let us know they have a similar situation where their son, they were like, we knew he had a call of God on his life, went to college, came back, and he let us know that he is gay and is going and pursuing a relationship with a man. And so it's just something happened where it's like there was a call of God and there is a call of God on that boy's life. And they're trying to navigate that of why is it that He's walking away from this.

My heart breaks for that family, for not only the parents, but for him as well. And so I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, this has to stop. And I just wanna appeal to everybody. Not one of those 30 million ever thought, I'm going to walk away from the faith. Not one of them ever said, well, I'm gonna be in this for just a little while. I'm gonna try it out and then one day I'm gonna walk away. I don't believe they did that. I believe they really had a love for God, a desire to know God, a desire to be a believer and serve Jesus and have a relationship. But yet now they don't even believe, many of them don't even believe he exists.

And can I ask you, do you feel like that's sped up in recent times? Like, do you feel like that number has grown significantly in recent times, or do you feel like when you were younger that that was a little bit different?

I do. I actually do. And I think COVID really kind of pushed it over. I think a lot of people stopped getting together. They stopped gathering. And the Bible commands us to gather. The Bible commands us to exhort one another daily. Why? We live in a real world that is run by the enemy. The Bible says that this world is under the sway of the enemy. And if you don't consciously pursue God, you are eventually going to start flowing with the current of this world. And so out of a real burden, because here's the thing that went through my mind. Not one of these 30 million people thought, I'm exempt, I'm impervious to all the other people that have walked away. I'm impervious to it. I'm exempt to it. It's not going to happen with me. They didn't think that. They just found themselves one day thinking, I don't believe anymore. I, I, I'm an agnostic. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God now. There's a reason for this, and I really believe that we need to dive in on this very first program and discuss this. I believe what has happened is people stopped feeding themselves the word of God. And so I look at this and I look at Paul the Apostle. He is actually getting ready to address elders, and he says— this is Acts 20:25-27— he said, 'And I now know that none of you whom I have preached the kingdom will ever see me again.' Now let's go back and put ourselves in his day. He's looking at leaders that he led to the Lord. He raised these leaders, and now he knows he's never going to see them again until heaven. He doesn't have emailing. He doesn't have texting. He doesn't have phones. This is the last words I'm ever going to leave these guys. So he said, I declare today that I've been faithful, and if anyone suffers eternal death, it's not my fault. Now, as a minister, okay, as a believer, that gets my attention. Yeah, it's not my fault if anybody goes to hell. That's what he just said. Okay, so I'm feeling the weight of the 30 million that have walked away. And I'm thinking, what have I not done? I'm thinking, what have we not done as a church, as leaders in the church? Okay, so Paul was able to say boldly, it's not my fault. Now, why isn't it your fault, Paul? Because I didn't, here, verse 27, this is Acts 20. For I didn't shrink from declaring all that God wants you to know. I didn't shrink back. I didn't hold back, another version says, from declaring the whole counsel of God. What I believe is getting these people in trouble, the reason they're leaving the faith, it's not what we're saying, it's what we're not saying. We're not declaring the whole counsel of God. I believe that people have this idea, I can go to church on Sunday, hear an inspiring message, and then I'm going to be fine because I got friends that are Christians, I go once a week, some people think I go once a month, and everything's gonna be fine. Yet we are told because of how viciously wicked and deceptive the enemy is that we've gotta exhort one another daily, that we've gotta be rooted and grounded in the truth of God's word. I mean, it's, it's so important. So now comes to the very end with these guys, and this is what he says. And now I commend you to God. So now just stop right there. He said, I'm going to entrust you into the hands of God. Now we know who that is. The Father's on the throne and Jesus is at the right hand. So who is that? It's the Holy Spirit. Yeah, right. Okay, I commend you to God, the Holy Spirit, and to the word of his grace. A lot of people today say, hey, I commend you to God, I want more of God, I want more. Hey, I do too. But that's not all Paul said. He didn't just say, I commend you to God, I commend you to the word of his grace. Why? Which is able to build you up and give you the inheritance among those that are sanctified. Okay. What builds us? What gives us the inheritance? It's the word of God. So this is one of the things we're going to emphasize on this podcast is the word of God.

Yeah.

And I mean, people just are not reading their Bibles.

No, they're not getting into it. I mean, we have a poll here. It says 2,000 Christians were polled and it says 52% say they never read their Bible. 8% read their Bible 3 to 4 times a year. 6% read their Bible once a month. 8% read their Bible once a week, 13% read their Bible several times a week, and 14% every day. And when you look at those numbers, it's very, very clear. 'Cause I think, like, you talked a lot about even going to church. It's like, church, going to church is one thing, 'cause you're getting around like-minded believers that are gonna encourage you and exhort you. But then there's another very real thing that is happening within your private time, that when you read the Bible, something is shifting in your mind. You know, they've shown something changes in your mind drastically when you read the Bible 3 times a week versus just 1 time or 2 times a week. There's something that changes. And there's attacks that the enemy will come against you that if, yes, being in good community is gonna help you, but also when you're in those moments when you're alone and you're feeling down on yourself and you're feeling these questions well up within you, that the word of God is gonna be the thing that you're gonna be anchored to. Like what you were saying about people drifting away, I love what you always have said is drifting does not happen knowingly. It's something that just happens. And people are just one second looking up at the shore thinking they're in one area, and then they're looking down doing something, and next thing they know, they look up and they don't recognize the shoreline.

Yeah, that's right. I mean, you're referencing right now Hebrews 2:1. I want to read it. It says, so we must listen very carefully. I mean, it doesn't say carefully. It says very carefully. Carefully to the truth we have heard, or we may drift away from it. Now, just as you said, when you've got a current of the world— because the whole world lies under the current of the evil one— when you've got a current and you're not anchored, okay, so paying very close attention to the word, to the truth, the word of God that we've heard, it anchors us, it keeps us from drifting away. And You don't know when you drift. When you drift, you all of a sudden— and I remember as a kid, I looked up and the shore was totally different, and I had to actually take a few minutes to figure out where I came from. And this is what happens if we don't get in the Word of God. Because, you know, Arden, Jesus said, go into all the world. This is the last words he says before he ascends to heaven. Matthew 28, he said, go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. Okay? Now, the word disciple, what do you think it means?

It's a follower of Christ.

That's what everybody says. The actual word, do you know what it means? What? Pupil.

Yeah.

So it's a lot more than following Jesus. It's actually being a student of what he says. Now, don't get me wrong. The word disciple means pupil, but it means a pupil, meaning a student. Yeah, a student who closely adheres to the life of his teacher. That's literally what the word disciple means. So we have to study because that's why Paul said to Timothy, study to show yourself approved, or be diligent to show yourself approved to God as a workman. And, and so we're all called to be ambassadors. Hey everybody, spiritual growth doesn't happen by accident. That's why we here at Messenger International are passionate about equipping you with resources to help you grow in your relationship with God. One tool we hope you'll take advantage of is our free MessengerX app. Inside MessengerX, you'll get access to dozens of full-length courses, sermons, audiobooks, and more, all available to you at no cost. Whatever your goals, Whether you're looking to discover your calling, develop deeper intimacy with God, find freedom, or improve your relationships, you'll find resources on MessengerX that will help you get there. Download MessengerX today, create your free account, and dive in. Now back to the podcast.

Well, let's get really honest because I want to ask you, because there's reasons why people are not getting into the word.. And I think it's some reasons that are there misunderstanding around the word of God. And I mean, we have 3 main reasons right here is people say it's boring. I mean, can you speak into that?

Sure, I can. I've been a Christian now 45 years this year. The most exciting book for me to read is the Bible. And you guys know that I talk about it all the time.

And that's what I was saying before is the start of this is like we got to see you come in and it's you've read it 50 times, and yet God still kept revealing something to you. And so there is something, though, that you do specifically that every time you get into the word, it makes it come alive.

Okay. David said in the Psalms, he said, open my eyes that I might behold beautiful things from your word. All right. Who is our teacher? It's— he's the Holy Spirit. I remember years ago, and this is, I think, almost 20 years ago, there was a publishing house, a major publishing house that came and talk to me about writing. And this publishing house, they're, they're part of the largest publisher in the world, but they're the Christian arm of it. And they, the publishers spent, I think they said 3 times a week, they spend an hour extra at work going through scripture. And they were talking about how much time they spent reading the Bible.. And we're just sitting there talking and the Word of God's just rolling out. And we left. And before they left our offices, they looked at my personal assistant and said, that man must spend hours, 40 hours, 8, 60 hours a week just studying the Bible. And I looked at my assistant after they had left and she said that to me and I said, No. I said, I know the teacher. Mm-hmm. I said, that's the difference. Yeah, that's good. So can you imagine being in a classroom and you have a teacher right there who knows the subject thoroughly and you don't ask them one question? Yeah. You don't ask the teacher for help. I mean, a teacher is somebody who's come alongside of you to Open your eyes to truth, to information, to knowledge. And yet so many people will sit down and read the Bible and it's boring because they haven't asked the teacher to open up their eyes. So I used to tell you kids, I used to say all four of you boys, don't read the Bible until you first say, Lord, open my eyes, open the eyes of my heart, open the ears of my heart. Now, That is what causes a book which we call the Holy Bible to not be boring after 45 years of reading it. Yeah, actually, to be more excited about reading. I mean, Lisa and I were just on vacation last week and I'm sitting there literally reading the entire chapter of Ezekiel 33 because I'm just like, Lisa, you've got to hear this. And she was like, I want to hear it. And we sat down together and we talked about it and we read it. How many times have I read that? How many times have I read the book of Hebrews, the book of Luke, and yet I still find something new? Because I believe there are so many facets of truth in one scripture that is not, not available to the human eye, to the human understanding. But it's available when the Holy Spirit opens up our eyes. I remember the first 4 years or first 4 months of being saved, I was not filled with the Holy Spirit. I mean, I think it's pretty amazing. Jesus looks at his guys and says, don't go start churches, don't start evangelizing until you receive power from the Holy Spirit. Well, The power he gives us is he opens up a book that looks like a bunch of rules and regulations and history to most people and brings it alive to you. Because the word of God is living, it's alive, it's powerful. It goes down into your heart. And so those first 4 months, I struggled. I mean, I'd sit there and read the Bible and I'd go, okay, I feel like that's a great story.

What does that mean?

Yeah. Okay. That's a lot of genealogy. That's a lot of that. Wow. They wiped out that many people. And I'm just sitting there going, I'm not— this isn't doing anything for me. Yeah. Then I got filled with the Holy Spirit. And when I got filled with the Holy Spirit, the Bible came alive. Yeah. Because he's our teacher.

Well, and I love— I mean, I've been going through Leviticus. I'm in Numbers now. But if you want to talk about boring book of Bible, potentially, like, we can go to Leviticus. But Leviticus talks very— and I just saw this reminder— is that in the tabernacle, what is above, like, what is specifically there right next to the word of God? It's the light. It's the fire. It's those candles. And the fire representation of the Holy Spirit. You can't read the word of God in that situation without it illuminated. By the fire, about illuminated by the Holy Spirit. And so I think that addresses two of the things is people saying it's boring. They lack understanding. I mean, if you're saying I don't fully understand it, and please hear me out, I think there's things that people will read that they might not fully understand and they're going to keep asking God. And there might be some things that they don't fully understand on the day that they leave this earth. But God's thoughts are higher than ours. And I love this because I think what they try to do is so often is they look at the things of this world and they look at like, okay, well, let's talk about science. Let's talk about, you know, the creation story based off of a Big Bang theory, which is a theory in itself. And they're like, maybe there's more understanding there and studying there. And they don't fully understand what scripture's revealing to them. And I've always looked at this and I've said, you know, there's a lot of things that does not maybe make sense to me right now in Scripture, but there's a whole lot more that does not make sense without Scripture.

I remember back when I was in college, I took a course and it was called Theology 175, and it was an extension course of a major Christian university nearby Purdue. And the teacher got up, I remember the first class, and he said there are 656 contradictions in the Bible. You can't prove Jesus was historically raised from the dead from the Bible. And the Red Sea was a marsh when Moses crossed it. Yeah. And I remember I'm sitting there going, nope, okay, I can't believe what I just heard. Well, then I come to the second class, and the second class, I said, you know, or he started teaching us that 25% of what we believe in our faith, our denomination, is from the Bible. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa. And now I was like, threw my hand up. I said, hold on, hold on, wait a minute. I'm basing my eternal destiny, my walk with God, on 75% of what someone or something says other than the Bible? He said, yes. He said, 50% of our doctrine comes from the ecumenical council And he said, 25% from the leader of our denomination. Yeah. And I remember sitting there, Arden, thinking, okay, that does it. I'm going to believe. I believe the Bible is the word of God, and I'm going to believe whatever I read, whether I understand it or not. And I didn't realize it back then, but that's the fear of the Lord. And the fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding. So when you say they lack understanding, you have to approach the word of God as what it is. It's the word of God, and I'm going to believe this whether I get it or whether I don't. Yeah. And that's the fear of the Lord that brings the understanding. And so when you approach the word of God, you can do this as I'm reading a book, or you can do it interacting. So I choose when I'm reading the Bible to interact with the Holy Spirit. Yeah. I'm like asking questions. I'm like, Lord, that's so amazing, right? Because it's living. I mean, listen to this scripture. This scripture is amazing. For the word of God— this is Hebrews 4:12-13— for the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and is— now listen to this— is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Yeah. Now listen to the very next statement: and there's no creature hidden from his sight. Wait a minute, whose sight? His sight. Wait a minute, it just went from— this is the way most people would see it— the word of God being it, and then it says, for there is no creature hidden from his. Do you actually see that the writer here is saying the word of God is a person? Yeah, his name is Jesus. Now, the pages on our Bible, the physical pages, that's not— I'm not saying that's Jesus. I'm saying the Spirit of God who lives in us brings those words alive, and it does what? It exposes what's in my heart. Yeah, that's why I don't like to go a day without the word of God, because I feel almost like I've got to be recalibrated from this world I'm living in every single morning, every single, you know, day, frequently a day. I've got to be recalibrated. I've gotten off. And the word of God is going to bring me back to thinking like God thinks. Yeah.

Well, and I remember researching this and I remember showing that 96% of your decisions that you make are made by your subconscious. So that means only about 4 or 5%. Wow. I mean, it's a rough estimate, but 4 to 5% of your decisions that you are making, you are actually making consciously. Now, that means everything that you've got going on in these decisions, that is all being formulated by the things that you are intaking and the things that are going on around you. And so if you're not constantly getting recalibrated by the word of God, you will watch as that drifting continues to keep happening in your life. You won't understand it.

It will be subconsciously, not consciously. Basically, in the statistics you gave, you just told me that 27% of the Christians in America, 27%, read their Bible at least 4 days a week. I think it's 4 days is when they see—

4 days. That's right.

I said 3 earlier, and it's 4. So in other words, pornography use goes way down, lying goes down, divorce rate goes down. They did a study. Yeah. If somebody reads the Bible 3 days a week, there wasn't significant change. If they read it—

oh, do we have this in here? Getting drunk, 57% lower. Sex outside of marriage, 68%. Pornography, 61%. Gambling, 75%.

And other— okay, so let's make sure we make this really clear. Benefits of reading the Bible 4 or more times a week. All right. This is a study that people getting drunk, it drops 57%. So that's 6 out of every 10 people. Sex outside of marriage, 68%. That's 7 out of every 10 people. So in other words, oh, I guess they find out, hey, God's our maker. He's our creator. He knows what's best for me. And he says having sex outside of marriage, it's not like a rule. So people, you can't approach the word of God like this is a rule. Rule book. Yeah. This is what God is telling me that is the best for me. I'm your creator. I know what's best for you. So what happens is 7 out of every 10 people find out, oh, so me living with my boyfriend until we have enough finances to get married is not what's best.

It might sound like great wisdom in like an earthly perspective. It makes sense. Oh, we're gonna save money and this is all this, but no, it's not what's best for you.

It makes sense to my budget. No, it makes sense to my income and outgo. Yeah, we're going to save a lot of money. We're going to be able to build for the future. That's human reasoning. Exactly. God comes along and says, no, that's not what's best for you. And it always comes down to this. Am I going to trust in my own wisdom? That's what Eve did in the garden. She, she said, I want to be the one that decides what's best for me. Or are we going to trust in God's wisdom, which is the tree of life, which is what the word of God, the wisdom of God is?

It's a tree of life, which is always relevant to 'Cause that's another big thing. People are like, well, the Bible's outdated.

It's not.

It's not.

It's not. It's the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. Exactly. Our culture changes and truth does not change. So truth works no matter what our culture is like.

I'll be honest with you, I'm blown away by how relevant the Bible is. Just because in my lifetime, being almost coming up on my 30s, like, it's hard to say that, but 30 years, The world has changed significantly from 1994. You know, when I remember the old age of the dial-up internet, where it's like, you know, making the little noises as it's coming all the way to now what we're navigating. I've seen a lot of shift and change, and I've watched as the word of God has only become increasingly relevant to the times and not losing any relevancy. The things and the truths and the principles, the stories within it, Stories that I've heard multiple times and I'm watching as like, okay, now I see, like that makes total sense for right now. And so I would completely argue that it's not actually losing relevancy, but it's actually gaining significantly more with the change of jobs.

It's been relevant the whole time, it's just you're coming into the awareness of how relevant it is.

Yeah, and maybe that's wrong to say it's increasing relevancy, but I'm just, I'm seeing it more and more from my vantage point.

Your eyes have been opened up. Yeah. So the truth of God's word has always been relevant.

I mean, I watch friends navigate situations and they're like, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, I'm kind of just smiling. 'Cause I'm like, it's written right in here. Here's the word of God. Like you're trying to explain it and understand it from an earthly perspective of thinking, here's this grand old discovery that I've got to figure out. And people are wrestling with which I'm like, the Bible tells you what to do. It tells you what to think, what patterns to go through, or it gives you examples of stories who have people who've navigated similar situations.

Situations. Wow. I mean, so here's what's going to happen. I mean, this, this Pilot, Pilot Podcast, we're, we're trying to set it up. What are you going to get when you come? All right, here's what you're going to get. You're going to get a dose of the word of God, and we're believing for the presence of God because I commend you to God into the word of his Spirit. Something that hit me while I was praying, Arden, is I realized God knows he's not bound to time. He's not bound by space. He's not bound by medium. In other words, it can come in person as I'm sitting with you. It can come through a camera. Yeah. His presence can manifest by you watching on a screen like the Roman centurion. Right. And so as I was praying about this podcast, I really saw that the presence of the Lord was going to be manifesting. People were going to get healed. People are going to get delivered. And so when you come to this podcast, the format may be different. I may be interviewing a guest, we may be going through a book in the Bible, we may be talking about a topic of today, but there's something that you're going to get out of this podcast, and that is timeless truth for changing times. The truth we share is timeless. It, it, it would have worked in the 15th century just as it works today in the 21st century. And because our times are changing and people are calling it progressive knowledge, we need to address what we're veering— because we as a society right now, we are so veering away from God that we need stability. We need a foundation that's going to keep us firm because it's like this, this, this is not a slow-moving river anymore. It's almost like a whitewater river. And unless you're firmly grounded, you're gonna get swept away by it. And so we wanna be able to share. I know one of the things in my heart is to be able to go through books in the New Testament and talk about these truths, how they apply to today. And so we'll be doing that and we'll be praying for people and believing that people will be, that they'll be discipled. Let's get back to that word disciple. Let's just put a cap on it, all right? Jesus said, make disciples of all nations. And I don't believe a nation is just Cambodia, just Iran. I believe a nation is a group of people. That's what this word means, a group of people with a common thread that holds them together. I believe bodybuilders are a nation. I believe pilots are a nation. I believe doctors are a nation. I believe that the word of God will disciple or make the operations of those nations more like heaven, because that's the Lord's Prayer. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And so when we begin to apply the word of God into our areas of life, whether we're in the marketplace, we're a stay-at-home mom, whether we're a student at a university, we start bringing the kingdom into our world. And that's what the disciples were saying when they said, Jesus, Are you going to set up your kingdom right now? He said, no, the kingdom of God's within, and you're going to have power to establish my kingdom in the world you live in. And this is what we want for our, our people that come to our podcast. We want them equipped so that they can establish the kingdom of God in their area of influence, in their nation, so to speak. Well, that's all we have for today. Let's— and the other thing I want people to know is that when you're coming on you're going to get 20 to 30 minutes. You can actually know, hey, it's going to be a good workout in the gym, or it's going to be on my drive to work, my drive to, you know, to meet with my friends. I've got a 30-minute drive I've got to do here. You're going to get a 30-minute podcast. I want you to be able to get through this podcast and really walk away with something significant. All right, that's it. So until next time, guys, this has been The John Bevere Podcast with Arden Bevere and John Bevere.