The Reason Christians Are So Disliked

How do you know they're really Christians? Is it because they listen to worship music? Is it because they wear Christian t-shirts? Is it because their dad's a pastor? How do you know if they're true or false? And this is why 30 million people have walked away from the faith. It's not what we've been saying, it's what we've not been saying. Now I'm sitting on the plane just last week and I'm with a really successful businessman and he asked me what I did and it got us into a discussion. That man was getting so upset and I'm just simply preaching the truth to him. But you know why he got so upset? Because of the hypocrisy he's seen in the church. Hey everyone, welcome to the John Bevere Podcast. I'm joined by my son Arden Bevere. Yes, Arden, you look good today.

Dad, you look good too. I like that shirt.

You like the shirt? Yeah, I got it for 50% off. Mother always likes it when I get stuff on sale.

Yeah, Mom doesn't buy anything that's not on sale.

No, she doesn't.

That's what I learned very quickly, that Italian mother.

Yes, yes, yes. Kind of transferred that to her son. Yeah, my wife, my wife, you guys are my— our 4 sons are some of the most frugal sons I have ever met. And I love that about you guys because you guys spend money wisely and I'm grateful for that. We are talking about a mouthful here. We have done 2 podcasts and 1 verse of the Bible and we, we, we— I think we're going to make it off of this verse. But, you know, we're talking about 2 Peter and, you know, this is really what I felt in my heart to do when God first started this, put it on our heart to do this podcast, to walk through books in the Bible that I felt like he was leading us through to make it relevant for today. I don't want it to be just like we're doing verse-by-verse study, just like you would do in a Bible commentary. I wanna talk about this and how it applies to today, how it's exposing things that we might not be doing quite in line with what God wants today, maybe how it's affirming things that we're doing, right? And this is what we're hoping for. And, you know, we talked about 2 Peter chapter 1. I think we spent like 8 podcasts doing it. I don't know, it might've been 7. Well, we just got through verse 1 and it took 2 of us to get through verse 1, 2 podcasts to get through verse 1. And they were long podcasts, Arden. But 2 Peter is so relevant for today. It's all about deception. It's what Jesus warned us about before he returned. He said, be very careful you're not deceived. And he warned about deception 4 times in just 1 chapter. Let's pick up where we left off. We can finally move on. 2 Peter 2:1, but there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly, listen to the word, cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the master who bought them. 'in this way they will bring sudden destruction on themselves.' Now, here's where we gotta talk. Okay, John, Peter said they're gonna deny the Master. Okay, so I'm not listening to any teachers that are denying the Master. Now, hold on a minute. If we remember in Jude, okay, I'm going to read it again. Jude verse 4: I say this because some ungodly people have crept into your churches unnoticed. Okay, they're going to come in by stealth, they're going to come in by, um, secret methods. Okay, nobody in Jude's day or Peter's day could come into any of their churches and deny Jesus, preach, actually say Jesus is not Lord and Savior and get away with it? Everybody would go, he's a false prophet.

Yeah, immediately.

Okay, but these guys sneak in unnoticed. So that means they're obviously not saying with their mouth they're denying Jesus. How do they deny Jesus? Titus 1:15-16 tells us, everything is pure to those whose hearts are pure, but nothing is pure to those who are corrupt and unbelieving because their minds and consciences are corrupted. Such people claim they know God, they claim to be Christians, but they deny him by the way they live. So they deny Jesus not by what they preach, but by what they live. Now, does this go along with other portions of scripture in the New Testament? Absolutely. Jesus said about false prophets, he said, Matthew 7:15-21, beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. So the way they appear is to be a true sheep, a true Christian, but they're really vicious wolves who are out for gain. Okay, you can identify them. This is amazing. Jesus, these are the words of Jesus, they're in red. You can identify them by their fruit, that is by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? So he said, hey guys, it's the way they're living. That's what, that's what your first indicator is of a false apostle, a false prophet, a false teacher, or a false Christian. Wow. Do you remember when you guys were in school?

Yeah.

High school. What did I say and sound like a broken record?

Well, for Addison and Austin.

Yeah, I think it was mostly for them, but for Christian school. Okay. They were in a Christian school and I said, hey guys, how do you know? How do you know they're really Christians? Yeah, because they go every night at dinner. I'd say, how do you know? Is it because they listen to worship music? No, Dad. Is it because they wear Christian t-shirts? No, Dad. Is it because their dad's a pastor? No, Dad. I said, how do you know if they're true or false? He said, by the way they live. That is how Jesus said we identify either a false brother, a false prophet, a false teacher. And that is what Jude and Peter are telling us, because Jesus goes on to make the statement, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, So they're saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father. So we're talking about actions here. We're not talking about what they say. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? Okay, false prophets, false teachers, right? Spoken your word under inspiration. Haven't we cast out demons in your name and done many wonders in your name? And I will declare to them, I never knew you. Yeah.

Can I address that scripture too?

Absolutely.

My heart was broken recently because I saw— it was broken for this gentleman. I saw a podcast, really well-known podcast, and he quoted that scripture and he said, man, every time I hear this scripture, he said, it puts fear into me. And he's like, but I had someone explain to me it's not actually me. Like, it's not— he's not talking about me. And he said he's sitting there and he's got his girlfriend right next to him. And he's like, yeah, because he said, we sleep around together like we do. He's like, I'm just be honest with you. Like, look at her. He's like, we sleep together. He's like, but I see the scripture and I'm like, oh, thank goodness I'm not in that camp. And I'm looking at this and my heart broke because I said, here you said he actually—

they sleep around with other people.

No, with each other. Oh, he said, I'm sleeping with his girlfriend. He said, we're sleeping together. OK. And he said, and I just love God so much. And he's like, I thank God that this does not apply to me. And my heart was breaking because in that moment, he's literally being deceived by misunderstanding. And he actually had someone who was telling him, well, this is the context of that scripture and was misleading him. Wow. And he's desperate. He's like, I want to please God. And yet he's seeing the scripture and he's thinking, I'm gonna be far. Like, I'm on the other side of this. But yet in reality, he's sitting here, sitting in sin and not realizing what he's doing.

Okay, let's break this down. I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. Lawlessness means you are a law unto yourself. Yeah. It means you choose what you want outside of what God says. Eve chose the fruit she wanted outside of what God said. God said, hey, it's not good for you, it'll kill you, don't eat it. She chose to eat it because it would make— it was good for her, not because it was bad for her. It was good for her. It would make her wise. Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. That's John. Yeah, the Gospel of John, chapter 14. John the Apostle wrote in 1 John 5, "This is the love of God that we keep his commandments." Okay, now, how can you say, "I love God," but then be willfully breaking his commandments? And the key here, "I will declare to them, 'I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'" The key word I think is practice. It's not fall into, stumble into, and really repent and say, "I'm so sorry, and by your help and grace, I'll never do this again." It's practice. It's the people that say, it's okay, I've got grace. Grace, it is the classic example of they've taken the grace of God, God's marvelous grace, and they've allowed it to live them an immoral life.

Yeah. And then people have taught them that that's okay. I mean, you don't just come to that realization on your own. It has been taught. To these people. And that gentleman, like, reading the scriptures, he could see it clearly enough, but yet it's been taught, no, it's okay, you're okay, like, just keep doing whatever you want to do. Don't allow the scriptures to transform your life. Don't allow the power of God to transform your world. Just accept the gospel for what it is and deny all the power that it has. And that's so sad. It's so sad that I'm seeing that happened within my generation too, as I look at my generation and seeing them navigating things. And I sit down in conversations with people and I hear them frustrated and navigating these different things. And they're like, I'm listening to podcasts, I'm listening to all these things, but nothing's changing. And I'm like, were you reading the word? And they're like, well, no, not really. I'm like, well, get in the word. And they said, Okay, well, is there any like podcasts that will help me go into that? No, get in the word. Like don't substitute it. Don't allow other people's interpretations for what God is trying to say, especially if they're not teaching the full gospel. Like that's something that I love that we have been striving through this whole podcast is to make sure like even what you're doing right now, is you're showing one element of scripture, but you're pulling. You're saying, is this a true thing across scripture? Yes, let's go here, let's go here, let's go here. We're not taking one scripture out of context and then just allowing it to be formulating this whole idea. It's showing the full truth of what God has. And the more people that I wanna see just get into the word in this generation, I think the more people you're gonna see not being led astray.

Wow. You know, I just think about Jude again. Jude 1:4, "I say this because some ungodly people have wormed or crept their way into your churches saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives." I'm just thinking about your friend, or not your friend, the podcast that you were watching and how your heart broke. You already said this, but I wanna say again, who taught him? Who gave him permission? I know that there is a gentleman that he just doesn't believe for some reason that it's important to preach that the grace of God will actually change you, that getting into the Word of God will actually change you. And he believes that that the preaching of godliness and what we're doing here out of 2 Peter can bring people into bondage. And I remember I was actually in a green room with him and I said, I love how you teach about God's marvelous grace, but could you just for 60 seconds say that empowers us to live godly? He said that would bring people into bondage. And I grieve because, Obviously he got hurt. He brought himself under legalism at one time in his young Christian life and he swung the pendulum and now he teaches and will not touch saying the fact that godliness is a product of God's grace. And what happens is you're not connected And when you're not connected to him, you're easily pulled away by the deceptions of this world. You're easily pulled away by the forces of this world. And this is why 30 million people have walked away from the faith. It's not what we've been saying, it's what we've not been saying. We've not been telling them that the word of God will build you up and give you your inheritance. The word of God is what will transform you. It will literally transform you to become more like Jesus, to live like Jesus. And so I— oh, all right. So verse 2, let's make it to verse 2.

Yeah.

2 Peter chapter 2.

Many—

now just stop right there. Many. The word many there is a large, large, large sum of people. It's not just a semi— like, okay, if I have 100,000 Overall, and let's just, let me rephrase this. If I have 50 coins, I can say those are many. But if I have 100,000 coins, that's not many compared to 100,000. If I have 100,000 coins, many would be 400,000, or excuse me, 40,000, 40,000, right?

Yeah.

That's what this Greek word means there for many. It literally means it's a good part or most or majority.

Okay.

So many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. So it's not just their teaching, it's their lifestyle. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. Now we got to talk about this. I wanna go to the Message Bible to bring this out a little clearer. They will give the way of truth a bad name. They're only out for themselves. They'll say anything, anything that sounds good to exploit you. We'll get to the exploit you in a minute. So what I wanna focus on right now is these teachers are giving the truth a bad name. You yourself said to me in a previous podcast, hey, just because there's counterfeit out there doesn't make the real diamonds bad. They're still valuable, okay? Unfortunately, what false teachers do is give Christianity a bad name and people go, I don't want anything to do with it. Now I'm sitting on the plane just last week and I'm with a really successful businessman and he asked me what I did. And it got us into a discussion that lasted over an hour. That man was getting so upset, and I'm just simply preaching the truth to him. But do you know why he got so upset? Because of the hypocrisy he's seen in the church. And it caused him to believe that you could get to God through maybe the teachings of Islam, through the teachings of Buddhism, through the teachings of— He said, how come it's just one man can be Everybody's gotta be saved through that one man. How do we even know that man really is God? And on and on and on. And yet he's raised in the church, but he got hurt in the church and it gave Christianity a bad name to him.

Yeah.

All right, so now I wanna go to Joel 2, because we read in Joel 2:15, blow the horn in Jerusalem, announce a time of fasting. 'Call the people together for a solemn meeting. Gather all the people. Let the priests,' these would be the ministers, pastors, teachers, evangelists, et cetera, 'who minister in the Lord's presence.' Remember, this is Joel writing about our day, about 800 years before Jesus came, okay? But he's seeing something that Peter quoted, and Peter's actually quoting something that I believe is about to happen, right before the return of the Lord, and that is the Spirit of God's gonna be poured out and your sons or daughters are gonna preach the gospel, right? They're gonna preach under divine inspiration. Okay, so he said, let the ministers, I'm gonna take his words and convert them into, let the ministers, the fivefold ministers who minister in the Lord's presence stand and weep between the entry room of the temple and the altar. Okay, we have the temple in heaven, we should be weeping in prayer. Let them pray, spare your people, Lord, Don't let your special possession become an object of mockery. Don't let them become a joke for unbelieving foreigners. Okay? When you have false teaching, you have false teachers. What happens is the people go, oh, where's real Christianity? You're no different than me. You just have a label of being a Jesus person because you're living immoral, just like I'm living immoral.

Yeah.

I don't see any difference in you. And it gives Christianity a bad name. And it caused me to be able to talk to that guy. And that guy, I remember he was getting so angry because he couldn't refute what I was saying to him. God was giving me words and he literally, I said, hey, I'm not meaning to get you angry right now. He said, I'm not angry with you. But he was getting so angry. He was like, he was literally did that a couple times. He was confronted with truth. Yeah. Because the truth was really opening up his heart opening up things in him that he wasn't confronting before that. And everything he was dealing with was out of hurt, out of a previous church. So—

Well, I love that too. Isn't one of the commandments, do not use God's name in vain, is that one of the expressions of that is do not take on being a Christian, do not take on God's name and not live according to it.

Wow.

It's not just do not use, you know, GD, do not cuss and use God's name in vain in that manner, but do not take on the identity of our God, identity of Jesus, and live—

Wow.

In an opposite manner.

I've never heard that before.

Yeah.

Wow. Okay, let's go to verse 3. In their greed, okay, remember what we said, the 3 things you'll see in most false teachers, covetousness and greed is one of them. In their greed, they will make up clever lies to get ahold of your money. Now, I'll never forget when I first started in ministry, my job was to pick up the guests that came into our ministry. Our ministry had 450 paid employees, and at one point it became the largest television ministry in the world. This is back in the late '80s, early '90s, right? And I remember guys coming into our church, they were professional consultants, and they literally would, Write letters to our partners. I had a dream and in my dream God showed me, and I knew that our pastor didn't have that dream. Yeah. Because they told me, I said, I didn't know pastor had that dream. Oh, he, this is just a way to stir them to be able to give. So they were trained in doing this. They were training our team how to get people. Now that brought a lot of disrepute. That brought a lot of devastation. People walking away from the faith. I literally saw so many people walk away because this ministry eventually fell. They had to condemn the building, which mom and I, we sowed a lot of finances in that building, right? But it had black mold and they had to condemn it.

Yeah, and there was a prophetic word about it, right? The black mold and that they're birds?

Actually, there might have— no, that was a different situation. Yeah, but it was— I'm literally picking up not just one man, a couple of men that are coming up with clever lies to get people to give to the ministry. And they would justify it by saying, well, the people are giving so that God's gonna bless them. God will bless them. We're just trying to get them stirred up to be able to— and I'm sitting here going, this is wrong. And you know what's really sad? Is the wife of my pastor at first said, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. And then they started looking at the money that was coming into the ministry. And she said, how could I argue with them? Because they're giving, the giving went up like crazy. And so again, Peter says these false teachers, they're going to make up clever lies and they have one reason they're doing it, and that is to get your money. But God condemned them long ago and their destruction will not be delayed. So let's talk about motives. Correct, when we are receiving resources for the sake of the gospel, that's correct. When we are receiving resources for the sake of people giving, that's correct. Okay, I remember the first time a pastor told me I had to take a, offering for Messenger International. This is the first year we were traveling. I was so distraught, Arden. I actually called a very wise man who's in heaven now. I said, what do I do? I don't want to, I don't know what to do. And he said something to me that I will never ever forget, and I'm eternally grateful to him for saying. He said, John, make sure when you take the offering tonight, you're not taking it for the sake of Messenger, take it for the sake of the people. And I went, Oh, wow. Okay, then I thought of Philippians 4:15-17. Paul said, as you know, you Philippians were the only ones who gave me financial help when I first brought the good news and then traveled on to Macedonia, or on from Macedonia. No other church did this. Even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent help once, more than once, I don't say this, now here's the key statement. I don't say this because I want a gift from you. Rather, I want you to receive a reward for your kindness. So there's a heavenly account. He said, I wanna receive that gift so that you can have treasure stored up in your heavenly account. He told me that night, he said, John, when you take that offering tonight, make sure you're doing it for the sake of the people so that they will get rewards in their heavenly account because he said, God can send the money to you through angels if he needs to do it. And I went, wow, that's really cool. So for the gospel's sake, Mark 10:29-30, assuredly I say to you, Jesus said, everyone's given up houses, relationships, or property, that's land and assets, for my sake or the good news will receive now in return 100 times as many houses, relationships, and property along with persecution and in the world to come eternal life. So the two right motives, to receive finances and resources from people. Number one, for the gospel's sake. Number two, your motive should be for the people that are giving. And what is incorrect is when we are receiving money for ourselves. Yeah. 2 Corinthians 2:17, you see, we are not like many hucksters who preach for personal profit. Jude 11, What sorrow awaits them! Like Balaam, they deceive people for money. So this is very real. And we live in a world in which you can't buy or sell without money, right? You can't get on the air, you can't do certain things without money. You need the resources to be able to get it out. The whole thing comes down to the motive. Are you doing it for the sake of the gospel? Are you doing it for the sake of the people that are giving? Or are you doing it for the sake of yourself? Yeah, that's what you have to ask yourself constantly, and you don't ask yourself that once.

And how do you balance it for the sake of your family too? Because I just want to throw that in there, elaborate. So I mean, some people say, well, I need to take this much in order for my family to be, uh, you know, well off, right?

Those things.

So seeing it as a right full motive in a way, that's a very honorable thing, but how do you make sure you toe the line between, I've gotta make sure that I'm a good steward over this and not just taking too much because it's my family and I want more kind of thing?

Well, I mean, your mother and I, we've always had boards like on Messenger that say, here's your salary, this is what it's gonna be, right?

Which I love that.

And we have tried to stay below what they recommend, okay? And then when I was, you know, that's been the whole time with Messenger, right? So that is something we've gotta do. We've gotta make sure that our board is okay with the way we're doing things, right?

You put authority around you, that's gotta help protect you.

4 pastors on that board, and there's like 4 business men and women.

It can quickly blend in. Like it can quickly bleed into, okay, I'm doing this for this motive. I'm doing this for a right motive of, okay, I'm doing this for the things of the gospel and I'm doing this for that. But it can easily bleed into getting that wrong motive. And so having those people above that are going to look out for the best for you, that are wanting to see your family blessed, that are wanting to see you, you being taken care of, but then are also going to be good stewards over what's coming.

Because the Bible says those that minister the word of God should be counted worthy of double honor. And it's actually talking about pay.

Yeah, we can't ignore that.

Yes. And so it grieves my heart when I see pastors that are not cared for by their board, by their overseeing board. And so yes, we want to have authority over us, but yes, we want to also obey the word of God that says that the person who ministers the word of God should— he shouldn't have to be like, oh my gosh, how do I get the money to even pay for the car payment right now? I will say, when Lisa and I first started Messenger 42 years ago— well, actually, it wasn't 42 years ago, it was 34 years ago. I know there were times that we didn't even have money for our house payment or our car payment. Our car payment was like $200 a month. Our house payment was $700 a month. We didn't have the money and we had to believe God. And I remember I had the money in a different account, but that was our resource account in the sense that that was our book and our, people won't understand this right now, our tape account, right? I had the money for it there, but I'd made a covenant with God. I said, I'm not touching that. And we would just have to pray and God would meet the need. God would meet the need every single time. Single time. And so there is a balance of saying, okay, I'm going to get it for myself, like Gehazi did, who was like, lied, came up with a lie in order to get that guy to give an offering which he was actually going to keep for himself. You've got the situation that you've got Achan, who God says everything that comes in this battle goes to me, goes to the treasury of the Lord, and Achan keeps some for himself, for him and his family. Yep. You've got those situations, but then you've got the other situations. You got people who think that pastors are supposed to be in poverty and the boards are keeping them down and they say, "We're going to do more." It's really interesting, Arden. I have preached in churches all over the United States and I've seen churches that have well taken care of their pastors, not pastor, pastors, right? The board makes sure they're well cared for. The people who work on the ministry team are well cared for. And those churches are doing millions for missions. Then there's the churches that they really don't pay their pastors well and their team members well. They're doing hundreds of thousands to missions. Now what's interesting is the reason they don't do that is they think—

We can give more to missions.

We can give more to missions if we keep our pastors' salaries and our staff salaries low. But in reality, they're doing far less than these. And I believe it's because these do what the word of God says and those that— "and the word of God and doctrine are counted worthy of double honor." So I look at God, he took care of the priests, he took care of Aaron's sons, he took care of the high priest, he took care of the whole Levitical priesthood. He made sure they were well cared for. Those offerings that were brought in, God was like, "That is their portion, that is their portion. That land is their portion." And God made sure they were well provided for. But it's when we are trying to go out and get a profit because I want more, I want more, I want more. That is when we start getting into real dangerous waters.

Yeah, that's really good.

So, well, I think we should stop right there and we should pick up here on the next podcast. I think it's— we've given them a lot to think about. And basically the thing that's so important to take away from this podcast is they sneak in. And how do they sneak in? They bring a message that's very, very close to the truth. But it leads people astray. And the way you recognize a false prophet, first of all, is not by what they teach, it's how they're living. So if the guy's living with his girlfriend, if the guy's in a relationship, or let's say doing something, he's covetous, he's greedy, and he's doing things that God has told him not to do, and he's not teachable about it, you better beware because you'll know them by their fruits, not by what they teach. And so it's very important that we understand false teachers are recognized first and foremost by what they live. They deny the Lord by what they live, not by what they say, because they confess to know Jesus, but in works they deny him. So the number one way, this is what this podcast has been all about, that you recognize a false teacher, number one way is what they live, not merely what they teach.

That's great.

So until next time, this has been the John Bevere Podcast with Arden Bevere and John Bevere. See ya.