What A Fallen Pastor Taught Me About Fame and Influence...

I've seen in my generation more and more as we've seen ministry become something that's actually attractive. A lot of people that are getting into ministry, they're not called for that area, and they're gaining influence and they're speaking on areas and topics that they shouldn't be doing.

Let me challenge what you just said. Yeah, if my platform on social media gets to 80,000, that's great, that's amazing. But if my heart is to build a name for myself, to build a reputation, to be unknown. See, these are all things that are birthed out of insecurities or desires. I mean, my pastor who fell, my very first church, he fell, Arden. And yet he had the largest television ministry in the world. Do you know what his number one passion was? Hey everybody, welcome to the Jon Bevere Podcast. Still have problems saying that, using my name in a podcast, but anyway, it's branding and I gotta get used to this, Arden.

That's right.

I'm so glad to be with my son, Arden Bevere. You are the youngest of our 4 sons.

I am. I'm your baby, as you will always call me.

Yeah, and you're the tallest, the biggest.

Almost 30.

Yeah, yeah, none of them weigh as much as you do. I think it's amazing. Anyway, yeah, you're gonna be 30 here in a few months.

I know.

Gosh, that's hard to believe. I don't have a child in their teens or 20s.

Yeah, it's hard to come to terms with that.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. So we are talking about growing in our salvation because we talked about in our pilot, there are over 30 million people that have walked away from the faith. None of these people, Arden, none of them said, I'm just going to walk away from Jesus one day. I'm just, oh, today's the day I'm just gonna walk away. No, they drifted away and they drifted away because they didn't develop a hunger and an appetite for the word of God and they didn't spend time in prayer. You know, it's amazing to me, but I've asked two ministers in their 70s just recently, how have you stayed faithful in over 50 years of ministry? And both of them said the same thing. It's the time I spend with God in his word and in prayer. And actually, when you're in the word, you're actually in prayer because I believe you should be communicating with the Holy Spirit when you're in the word. So we're gonna talk about growing in our salvation because when is the easiest time to pull a plant out of the ground? Is when it's young, its roots are not— The Bible says that we are gotta be rooted and grounded in the word of God. And so, hey, I'm just gonna tell everybody this right now. I'm gonna be really honest. If you don't stay in the word of God, you lose your appetite for the word of God. It's just the opposite of physical food. I mean, I need physical food to keep me alive. And the less I eat, the more my body screams, "I wanna eat." The less I read the Bible, the less I engage with the Bible, the more I don't wanna read the Bible. It's just the opposite. So we want to talk about growing in our salvation, and I believe the book of 2 Peter nails this. I think 2 Peter— I don't know why, maybe it's just the Holy Spirit leading us— I think this book is so relevant to our times. We're going to walk through this book, and I don't know how many podcasts it's going to take to get through it, but we're going to walk through this book, the challenges that every single one of us are facing on almost a daily basis now.. And so let's just jump in and let's read verse 1 of 2 Peter. And I'm going to be doing this out of the New Living Translation. All right, so he opens up by saying, this letter is from Simon Peter, a slave. Now that word slave is from the Greek word doulios, which actually means that I am committed fully to the will of the one I serve. So another way of saying it is I am a bond servant or a love servant. So I love that because he says, I am a slave and an apostle. So now, whoa, whoa, you're not going to be an apostle unless you're a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ. And that slave is not a negative slave. I know everybody's out there going, what, what, what? We don't want slavery. We hate slavery. This is when a person willingly says, I am so in love with my master, I live for his will. When you get to that place, then you have the ability to be an apostle. Now wait a minute, John, are you saying that all of us can be apostles? No, but I will say there are 5 offices that Jesus instituted when he was ascended on high. This is Ephesians 4. The apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor, and teacher. Let me ask you a question. Hey everybody, spiritual growth doesn't happen by accident. That's why we here at Messenger International are passionate about equipping you with resources to help you grow in your relationship with God. One tool we hope you'll take advantage of is our free MessengerX app. Inside MessengerX, you'll get access to dozens of full-length courses, sermons, audiobooks, and more, all available to you at no cost. Whatever your goals, whether you're looking to discover your calling, develop deeper intimacy with God, find freedom or improve your relationships, you'll find resources on MessengerX that will help you get there. Download MessengerX today, create your free account, and dive in. Now back to the podcast. Isn't every believer supposed to be an evangelist?

Yeah, I mean, I think so.

Aren't we supposed to tell people we meet that don't know Jesus about Jesus?

We definitely should.

I hope there are people listening to this podcast that don't know Jesus. I want them to know Jesus, right? Yes. Okay. Every one of us should be teachers. Aren't we supposed to make disciples of all nations? So aren't we supposed to be teaching our friends the word of God? Okay, well, apostle is an office, but I believe we're all supposed to be apostles. Yeah, okay, that doesn't mean we're all in the office of apostle. The fact that I believe all of us should be evangelizing doesn't make all of us evangelists in the office of evangelist. So I want to make sure that—

same thing with teaching, like there's some incredible teachers out there.

Right, they're in the office of a teacher. Exactly. But every Christian's supposed to teach.

Yep.

All right. Now having said that, I believe every one of us are supposed to be apostolic. Now the Greek word for apostle, this is amazing, is actually a term that was used in the Greek Empire. So it's apostolos is the word, all right? So now in the 4th century, Before Christ, Greek, the Greek Empire was going on. And what they did is they would have a fleet of ships that would go to an area and they would conquer it, an area that they had conquered. And this fleet of ships had an admiral on the ship that led all the other ships. And he was called the apostolos. I don't know if apostolos. Okay. Okay? And what he had on that ship was all these trained people in Greek culture. And they would go into that territory and they would bring the culture of Greece into that new territory. So they would build roads for them, they would teach them, they would educate them in Greek culture. So now what are they doing? They're establishing a little Greece in this barbaric, formerly barbaric, or another nation's territory. So that literally the Greek Empire would spread throughout the world. This is what Jesus said we're to do, to make disciples of all nations. So that means all of us have an apostolic calling, but the only way we'll fulfill it is if we make ourself a bond slave living for Jesus. In other words, I'm not gonna change the people I work with, I'm not gonna change the students I'm in the classroom with if I'm not fully committed to the will of Jesus Christ.

And you're saying like in those areas, you're saying it's where you're at, right? You are fully committed, you're applying, and you're bringing that culture into the areas. 'Cause I think sometimes, I mean, even I know for myself, I overcomplicate maybe that call, and I don't see it boil down to maybe the more of those practical areas where, I'm actually in. So, I mean, can you explain that a little bit more to me?

Very few people are called to be in vocational ministry like what I've been called. And I remember I ran from it for years. Most people that we talk to, you are called by God to make an impact in the world he sends you into. So if you're in the marketplace, if you're in education, you— I don't believe if you're diligently following Jesus Christ— the Bible says the steps of a good man are ordered of the Lord, the steps of a good woman are of the Lord. Why do I have such a desire to go and teach third graders? It's because God's called me to do that. You know, here I am praying, and the Bible says when I delight myself in the Lord, he'll place— he'll give you the desires of your heart. I believe he'll place his desires in us. So now I got this urge to teach third graders. That's a call of God. Now, if you're fully committed to the will of God you become an apostle to that realm. And so again, I'm not saying you're in the office of an apostle. You become apostolic. You're bringing the kingdom of heaven into that classroom. You're bringing the kingdom of heaven into that sales office.

You're bringing the kingdom of heaven into that, that doctor's office, workplace, whatever it is.

This is what Jesus has called us to do. So Peter is a full-time, he is in the actual office of an apostle, but it shares something with us that when we are fully committed to the will of the master, that's when we become apostolic in our life. If we're not, if I'm lukewarm, I'm not apostolic, I'm actually spreading a disease.

Yeah, and what does fully committed look like though? That's, I mean, that's what I'm curious about is I'm thinking about, okay, fully committed, lukewarm, How do I know I'm fully committed? What does that process look like?

I live for the glory of him. Everything I do, it's not for my glory, it's not for my praise, not for my recognition. I live for the glory of Jesus. In other words, I live to honor him. I live to exalt him. I live to make him known. And that's fully committed.

I love, and you've always taught us this, growing up as those boys is like, you're not elevated in promotions, you're elevated in servanthood. And I think that so equally kind of is what you're talking about here.

Well, I think you're referring to the time when God just really shocked me. I was working at my church, I had left the engineering job, I knew God had called me to do this, and all of us were in our 20s and we looked at the pulpit like, man, one day we'll arrive, we'll be a leader, we'll lead a church, we'll lead a ministry.

And you had no social media. Like, I mean, people are not looking at the pulpit. They're looking at social media.

Yeah, that's true.

And it's so much of people on social media.

If I can just get 10,000 followers, if I can just get 50,000 followers. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. And then people gauge a big platform based off of spiritual maturity. They're like, well, they have a lot of followers, so they must be a spiritual—

Okay, let's just go there. Let's go there. You're bringing this up. Let's go. Okay. All right. So let's go back to the day 40 years ago when I'm first starting ministry, we're all like, you arrive when you get to the platform, right? Today, I arrive if I have 40,000 people on my social media. Then maybe 100,000, then it may be 200,000, right? So my whole mindset was, I will arrive when I get to that, leading that church, leading that ministry, standing behind that pulpit.

Wearing that three-piece suit.

So here, yeah. Gosh, oh my gosh. Anyway. My job at the time was that I took care of all my pastor and his wife's personal needs to free them up so they could really focus on ministry. So I'm picking up dry cleaning, I'm picking up gifts for her, I'm picking up their kids from school, I'm taking their kids to lessons. All right, this is my job full time. And I remember I'm driving my wife's— pastor's wife's car to get cleaned. And the Holy Spirit said, "Son, if I promote you," and there was a big emphasis on the word if. So now think about my mindset, behind a pulpit, leading a church, whatever it was. And there was a big emphasis on if, if I promote you, it will be a promotion in serving. And I'll never forget that as long as I live. He said, "If you mess up now, it's just dry clean shirts, it's just an automobile." If you mess up then, it's humans' lives.

Yeah.

That did two things. It showed me, first of all, that a promotion in the kingdom is a promotion in serving. But the other thing that it showed me is that's the way I'm supposed to live always. Peter starts out, I am a servant. Yeah. And I am consumed with one thing, fulfilling the will of my master. That makes me apostolic. Yeah, that's powerful. So how do we approach social media like that, Arden? What do we do?

Yeah, I mean, it's difficult. And I'm watching because I do— I've seen in my generation more and more as we've seen ministry become something that's actually attractive. And I know that there was an attractiveness when you were back then. To me, it was a little bit awkward. I'm like, you know, when I was younger and looking at ministry, I thought that was very awkward.. And I'm watching as now it's a very much of attractive thing. And I think you're seeing a lot of people, and it scares me for my generation. You see a lot of people that are getting into ministry with— they might have a right heart behind it, but they're not called for that area. And they're gaining influence and they're speaking on areas and topics that they shouldn't be doing. And it's out of this place of authority, which I love that Peter is showing. Yes, I have authority, but I'm also a servant, a slave to the utmost high. And he's keeping this humility about him of that understanding.

Well, let me challenge what you just said. Yeah. Okay. You're saying as people are getting a platform that they really don't have the character to handle yet. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I would say that they just need to do it with the right heart. Yeah. And positions God will give because promotions come from God. But if my heart is to serve people, to serve Jesus first and serve people, if my platform on social media gets to 80,000, that's great. That's amazing. But if my heart is to build a name for myself, to build a reputation, to be known, see, these are all things that are birthed out of insecurities. Or desires. So the more important thing is, because God can promote somebody to a pastor of a church, yeah, and yet they still carry a desire to be known. I've seen it. I mean, my pastor who fell, my very first church, he fell, Arden, and yet he had the largest television ministry in the world. For a 2-year period. But do you know what his number one passion was? What? He wanted the biggest television ministry in the world. Really? Okay. Now, is that because he wanted to really serve people? Or is it because he wanted— he was in a meeting. Yeah. Because nobody knows who this is. He was in a meeting one time, and he preached a phenomenal message. And the who's who of the time of leadership in the body of Christ was in this big meeting. It was a big, big, big conference. And he went back to the green room after preaching this absolutely brilliant message. I remember I got the message and listened to it. It was, it was so anointed. And nobody said a word to him. So all these major leaders were in the green room and nobody said one word. They didn't come up and say, wow, I really got touched tonight. Everybody just kind of stayed away from him. And he looked at my close friend who was his right-hand man. And he said, get me out of here right now. He got in the car. And he said, I'm going to be bigger than every one of them. Now, that became his driving motivation. Now, God gave him that ministry. Yeah. He did become the number one ministry television ministry in the world. He became bigger than all those other ministries as far as his reach. But he ends up divorcing his wife. He ends up doing things. Is he doing it for the right reason or is he doing it to serve? So God can, God can give me a ministry where I'm actually writing books and I'm doing what God wants me to do. I'm actually on platforms speaking to 2,000 people. I'm on social media and I've got 200,000 or 700,000 followers. But I'm doing it for the wrong reasons. So you can have that calling and still do it for the wrong reasons. Yeah, yeah. So that's why I love verse 1, which we're only still on. We're on verse 1, a slave. I have to have the mentality of I live as a servant first to Jesus and then to everyone else. Now, if you use that as a filter for going on your social media platform, your YouTube platform, whatever it is, you're going to bring life to people if you're motivated by being a servant of Jesus Christ first, and then I'm a servant to everybody else next. Yeah, I love that. If you're going on there because I'm insecure, I want to have a name, I want to be known, I don't want to I don't want to die insignificant. Yeah. You're going to end up in error.

And that's what I think I was saying too, is there was a, like, when you're young, there was a lot of people's desire was, I want to be known. I want to be famous. And I want to be a movie star or an athlete and things like that. Whereas now it felt like I can be an influential person online and use, you know, the word of God. And I can, I can, capitalize on sharing messages, which again, you're doing out of the right heart. It's absolutely incredible. And that's fantastic to see.

But, but, but wait a minute. I'm going to say that. OK, you're all right. Let's say that you're doing out of the right heart.

All right. You're doing out of the right heart. That's incredible. And God's going to give you that promotion. And you got to stay in that mindset of I'm doing this unto God.

Oh, OK. I see what you're saying. Not for people.

Yeah. But then there's also that underlining feeling where I've seen people in my generation where they've used ministry as a way to make a gain for themselves, right? To make a name for themselves, to platform themselves in a greater sphere. And it's been— ministry has been the avenue towards influence rather than my heart and my passion for people. Maybe that's a better way of saying it, is my heart and my passion. Like, I can't not get on this platform and share about the good news. I cannot get on this platform and not share what God just revealed to me. In this message. I love when I see that, but I've seen some people in my generation navigate it in that way where it's more about their exposure.

You know, I had somebody ask me a time, probably 5, 6 years ago, they said, John, before you stand up and speak to 10,000 people, are you nervous? And I said, no, not at all. And they looked at me and I thought, wow, it sounds like I'm being a little arrogant. I need to clarify this. I said, I'm not being arrogant. I'm being honest, I don't get nervous. And this is why: if I'm performing, I'm gonna get nervous. If I'm serving, I don't get nervous. And so mindset, my mindset, when I walk on a platform and I'm looking at 2,000 people, I'm here to serve them today. And I'm serving them because I'm serving him. You know, he said, If you do it to the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you've done it to me. So there are the people out there, aren't there, going, oh, I'm serving God, and yet now they're building themselves at the expense of others. No, they're not serving God because you do it to the least of these, my brethren, you've done it to me. So how am I treating that lady who nobody's paying attention to, who's in line waiting to get on the airplane? Am I rude? Am I pushing myself past her? Am I unkind? Am I ignoring her? Am I not smiling at her? You know, she's significant because she's created in the image and likeness of Jesus. And if she belongs to Jesus, he said, "You've done it to the least of these, my brother, and you've done it to me." So when I got that heart to serve, see, that makes me apostolic. I love it. I mean, I didn't even think about this until we got on this program.

Well, and then you also even just think, sorry, just—

That's why we're not past this verse.

To think about like the day and age that we do live in, like how incredible, because there's some people that will look at social media and say it's of the devil, like stay away from it. And I think it's a tool. Yeah, it's a tool. Like, I mean, if you do have 200,000 people, you realize you can post something and having that right heart and that good heart of expecting of like, well, this is what I'm seeing and you can impact so many people's lives. Unlike any other generation has ever been able to impact someone in a click of a button. Like that to me is incredible. But we have to be so intentional. My generation, generations that are using it, we have to be so intentional to make sure our heart is in that place. And that's what I've loved. Like, Dad, this is something I've looked at for you is I've loved— you guys have been in ministry for 40 years and something that we always talk about as boys saying to other people is, We've been blown away by how you and mom have only grown in humility as you guys have grown in exposure and influence. And we've just watched as you guys have navigated that so well. And it's spoken to us in such a significant thing that I want to see our generation grab hold of more and see a greater degree of that. And that's why I'm also even excited about this podcast is that I've never seen you once use the word of God for the benefit of you, the benefit of our family. And I'm seeing the same thing from mom. And so that's why I wanna see more and more from this generation.

Wow, you've really touched my heart. I mean, that's my heart, that's my desire. I just wanna get back to the tool. Let me go back to that. A gun is a tool. Do you know a gun can provide meat for a family? I mean, I hope, I hope you guys don't have any problems with this because God said all the, the animals under the, you know, the sun are basically food now after the flood of Noah. But, you know, I had the privilege of being invited to a 14,000-acre ranch and I was given a gun. It was a very powerful gun. It belonged to somebody else. And I remember when that elk stood there with You know, he had those 5 prongs on both sides. I put that bullet through him and he went down. I mean, Lisa and I have got meat in our freezer to eat, but, you know, that same gun can be used to take somebody's life. Yeah. Does that make the gun evil? No, it's the person who uses it makes it good or evil. It was good in the fact that it provided meat for Lisa and I and our family for a year. It can be evil if it's used because you're angry at somebody and you want to take their life. Yeah. So social media is nothing other than a tool. And what needs to be made right is our heart. And I had no idea you and I wouldn't even get off verse 1. But you have to have the attitude of a love slave first before you can be apostolic in your mission. And so let's just finish verse 1 so we can say we got off of it. Okay. This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. Now, I want to say something about that. That word same precious faith means equal in value. In other words, what Simon Peter is saying is, I don't have a more valuable faith than you have. God has given to every man the measure of faith, correct? Every single one of us have equally valuable faith. It's, your faith's not less valuable than mine. Somebody else, that lady in line waiting to get on the plane, her faith is not less valuable than mine. God has given us that very value. 'Cause why is faith so valuable? It connects us with the creator of the universe. Mm-hmm. It gives us a personal relationship with the one who put the stars in the heavens with his fingers and called everyone by name. He weighed every drop of water in the planet in the palm of his hands. That faith is the door to a relationship. Oh my gosh, does that make it precious? This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ. Okay, stop right there. This faith was given to you. Don't think you're somebody because you believe in God. Don't think you're somebody because you got born again. It was given to you. Faith is a gift. It was given to you because of the justice and the fairness The actual word for fairness is righteousness of Jesus Christ. Now listen to this, our God and Savior. You know what I love about the word God? It's the Greek word theos, which means the one supreme supernatural being as creator and sustainer of the universe. Jesus truly is God manifested in the flesh. He emptied himself of his divine privileges and he walked this earth so he could relate to you and I as a man filled with the Spirit of God But he is God. He is God our Savior. He is the one who dwells in unapproachable light, who no man has seen nor can see. To him be glory and honor and dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen. So we got through verse 1, Arden. 2 Peter verse 1. And I, I'm telling you, you know what I love? God taught me something on this podcast. Here, here I am to share the word of God with people. I my eyes just got opened up that I'm not going to be apostolic unless I've got the attitude of being a servant of Jesus Christ. Hey, you may be listening right now and you've gotten through verse 1 with us. We're going to continue on this journey, and who knows what the Holy Spirit's going to bring out on the next podcast and the next podcast. Hey, if you've never given your life to Jesus Christ, there's, there's only one way, only one way you can have a relationship with God Almighty, your Creator, and that's giving your life totally to the Lordship of Jesus. It's not just praying a sinner's prayer. It's like a marriage. When a bride walks down an aisle of a church, she's saying goodbye to about 3.9 billion guys on the planet. She's saying, this is the one and only man I'm giving the rest of my life to. The Bible calls Jesus the groom and we're the bride. The Bible says that a marriage is an illustration of the way the church and Jesus are one. You have to make the decision that I'm going to live totally for him. Jesus said, if you give up your life for me, I will give you my life. That is an exchange that is mind-blowing to me. The creator of the universe says, I will give you all of me if you give me all of you. If you're willing to do that right now, I just want you to pray this prayer. Just say, Jesus, I give you my entire life. I repent of not living for you and living for only myself, and I give you my spirit, my soul, and my body. Today, fully, everything I am and everything I have, you are now my Lord and my King, and I will live as your bond-love servant. May I be apostolic in my world of influence, in Jesus' name. You know, if you prayed that prayer, we'd love to hear about it. You can reach out on social media. I mean, how can they do it? On YouTube?

YouTube, yep. Yeah, wherever they're listening to this, they should have an ability to be able to reach out and leave a comment.

I would love to hear that. And if you've got questions as we're walking through, I mean, I'm not always going to maybe be doing a book of the Bible with Arden, but, you know, we may do topics, we may do questions. I would love it if you would rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast. If you do that, what's going to happen is we might end up reading your review or your comment on, on air on the program. Number 2, and even much more important, you're going to encourage other people to get the word of God as we share the word of God. When you come on this podcast, always remember you're going to have the presence of God and the word of God emphasized. That's what's most important. We may be doing different formats, but it's going to be the emphasis of the podcast. And we also have an app that will help you with your discipleship journey. It is— we, we invested over $14 million. It is a world-class app. It's in 129 languages. Just go to the App App Store, type in MessengerX, no space between the R and the X. Or if you're on an Android, you can go to Google Play, type in MessengerX, and you just download that. It's absolutely free. We have courses on there, we have books on there, we have all kinds of things on there to help you in your discipleship journey. And so until next time, this has been the John Bevere Podcast with both Arden Bevere and John Bevere.