What Christians Don’t Understand About the 2024 Election

Those who watch our podcast, listen to our podcast, know that I am not a political man, but I am a biblical man. Our influence, our voice should be biblical in the way we go about voting, praying, etc.

It's very hard to find candidates that perfectly are going to represent what it means to be a Christian. Every Christian must vote. He thinks putting your vote towards an independent candidate that just makes you feel good is a complete throwaway vote and a cop-out. One of these two parties, one of these two leaders is going to be the executive.

To be honest with you, if 100% of the evangelicals in America voted, we would start turning this ship.

You got to understand, the Christian's the only thing that kind of sits in the way of a tyranny. And so you are going to continue to see the name of Christianity be drug through the mud.

I think, and I know some people are going to be really upset, but Hey everybody, welcome to the Jon Bevere Podcast. I'm so excited, this is a special edition. We're kind of diverting from 2 Peter and we're gonna have a guest, a guest who I absolutely love, been a dear, dear friend of mine for years and years, he and his wife Rebecca, and that is Gabe Lyons. Gabe, welcome, I wanna introduce you. Let me just tell everybody about you. You are the founder and the president of Think Media, which is a powerful organization that I'm gonna ask you to tell what its mission statement is in just a minute. You have the Undercurrent podcast that you host. You also do Rhythms for Life with Rebecca, your wife. You are a bestselling author. And what's really cool is you've got your wife Rebecca, who's also a bestselling author, and I think she's actually sold more books than you, right?

She sold a lot more books.

I know, isn't that cool? You know, my wife's a New York Times bestseller, and I'm always like, hey, I'm not the New York Times bestseller, Lisa Bevere's the New York Times bestseller. So I totally get you, brother. So anyway, but just a phenomenal family man, Gabe, I believe your voice is so important right now. What God has entrusted you with is so important right now. You are like a man who enlightens us in a profound way. God has given you this ability, this insight to be able to see what's going on with the current events and apply biblical spiritual truths that are so important to teach us how to walk in a way that's going to be effective. So with that, tell me, about you, about your family. And by the way, you have 4 beautiful children. Tell a little bit about Rebecca and your children, and then I'll ask you the question about Think Media.

Well, so Rebecca and I, like you and Lisa, I mean, you guys have been incredible mentors. We're so thankful to count you as friends. We've been married now 26 years, 4 children, adopted one, you know, a few years back. So we have a younger one in 5th grade. All the rest are at college age. And I've been living in this area for over a decade, but really Rebecca and I together, we have felt like we've been on mission really since we got married. I mean, it's very much been about how do we pursue what God's put in front of us, keep risking as we move forward and keep moving into the new opportunities that he's providing to advance truth in our time. I've personally, since I was in my early 20s, felt very called to communicate truth to my generation dealing with the questions, the conversations, the topics, the current issues that it felt like were so important to my generation. But I was having a hard time always finding Christian leaders that were addressing some of those issues, and especially not through Sunday morning sermons. And so that's been a lot of the work that we began 20 years ago that's now Think Media.

Well, I'm so grateful for it because I was just with a group of men, very successful men, And they said, John, why aren't our pulpits in America addressing the current crises that we are going through? Why do they skirt those issues? Why are so many resorting to just giving inspirational messages instead of really tackling the situations of the day? And if you look at John the Baptist, yeah, he lost his head for attacking a situation of the day that absolutely was anti-God, anti-biblical, And so, yeah, you put yourself at risk, and that's why I respect you and Rebecca so much. You're not afraid of that. You're not afraid of being misunderstood. And I don't know if you realize this, but the subtitle of this podcast is "Unchanging Truths in Changing Times," applying unchanging, changeable truths. 'Cause Pilate is the one that said to Jesus, "What is truth?" Right? And why was Pilate saying that? Because truth was changing so much. Yeah. All right. The standard was changing so much. And so he's like, what is truth? Well, today, any human being who doesn't have a relationship with God would put up their hands and go, what is truth? It's changing every year. And so elaborate more on Think Media, what you really, really are trying to get people to open up to.

Yeah. So for 20 years, we've been convening leaders that are Christians but really positioned in all these different cultural fronts, different industries, whether it's entertainment and media and politics or education, business entrepreneurs. The church and the social sector. And what we're trying to do is always connect them as leaders to one another so they can share information. They can understand how does faith apply to the current world. You know, some of my mentors, one from a distance, Francis Schaeffer, who talked a lot about apologetics. How do we live today? Yeah. I mean, he was writing the books in the 1960s that today I read and go, man, these are so prescient. Like he understood what was coming. He was trying to warn the church about it. And then Chuck Colson, who was mentored by him, I was able to have a very personal relationship with him late in his life and be mentored.

I have so much respect for him.

Yeah. His book, How Now Shall We Live, 25 years ago for me was what lit the fire for me. I finally understood Christian worldview, this need to think critically through this lens of how do I think Christianly about the events, the topics, the ideas that are coming at us. And 25 years ago it felt like they were coming fast, but I think we'd all admit today they're coming at warp speed. I mean, you're faced with hundreds of new ideas and topics and content and current issues and headlines every day. How does a Christian lead through that? So we created Think as a place where we convene a couple of times a year. Leaders come to our events, mostly take place here in Nashville, and then we do some retreats around the country. But then those same leaders are equipped through thinkmedia.com where we're actually providing consistent content that helps them navigate the current issues of the moment. So that puts us in the spaces of talking about everything from artificial intelligence and the future of that and technology to science, to business, to current issues, to politics, to election seasons. And so I find myself being a bit of a generalist, trying to understand a lot of these different trends, but now over 25 years, starting to be able to see it maybe a little more clearly than I would've 20 years ago and starting to see the cycles and the patterns and the ways in which things aren't always that new. They continue to repeat themselves. And so we are just trying to help Christians know how to discern the times, to understand the times, and to really understand how to navigate culture and remain faithful and steadfast no matter what new topics or ideas are coming. Because I think we all understand we're going to be hit with a lot more noise, a lot more information, a lot more propaganda. And how do we stay grounded and anchored? And that's the work of Think, is to help Christians know how to do that, especially on the front lines of culture.

Well, I look at you kind of like a modern-day leader of the sons of Issachar. They were the ones in Chronicles, the book of Chronicles, that had understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do. So I believe God's raised up that type of men and women today that understand the times so that know what we, the church, should do. Because I thought of the scripture before you came on, and this so perfectly describes what so many are doing. But Proverbs 22:3 says, A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. There are going to be great consequences that we will suffer if we act like simpletons. And I believe God has raised up people like you. You are a leading voice in this area who understand the times to know what we should do, so we do take the precautions. So here we are. And the reason I wanted you on is because we're in election season. And of course, this is part of what you communicate. This is not the whole scope. It's a very small aspect, but we are in election season. Hey everybody, spiritual growth doesn't happen by accident. That's why we here at Messenger International are passionate about equipping you with resources to help you grow in your relationship with God. One tool we hope you'll take advantage of is our free MessengerX app. Inside MessengerX, you'll get access to dozens of full-length courses, sermons, audiobooks, and more, all available to you at no cost. Whatever your goals, whether you're looking to discover your calling, develop deeper intimacy with God, find freedom, or improve your relationships, you'll find resources on MessengerX that will help you get there. Download MessengerX today, create your free account, and dive in. Now back to the podcast. Now, I hopefully those who watch our podcast, listen to our podcast, know that I am not a political man. I am not going to be a person that sits there and says, you got to vote this party, this party, da da da da da. But I am a biblical man. And I believe that when the government puts the responsibility in the hands of the people to elect the officials, That's something that makes us so different than any of the societies in which Paul the Apostle, Peter, James were a part of. They were all dictators. They were all kings. They were all sovereigns. They were all put in place. We have the ability to let our voice be known. Now, if you walk away from what I'm saying right now, saying I'm being political, you're missing the whole point. What I am saying is our influence, our voice should be biblical in the way we go about voting, praying, et cetera, what we do in our communities, what we do for our state, what we do nationally. And I would say that we have a responsibility. And if we don't use that responsibility, then that means people who are ungodly, they're going to take that place and they're gonna let their voice be known. Then all of a sudden we've got a regime, a government that is actually anti biblical standards because us, we the believers didn't voice.

Right.

So I'm deeply concerned about this right now because I find so many Christians, I mean, maybe you can even answer this. I heard a percentage the other day that I wanted to fall over when I heard it, but it was almost like 40% of the evangelicals are not even going to, 40% are only registered to vote, 60% are not. I don't know if that's true. You would know much more than me. Let's go down that road.

Yeah, that's pretty consistent. I mean, that people literally don't register to vote. And that's crazy. I mean, there are certain countries, I think of Australia, for example, where everyone has to vote or you're fined, right? They take it so seriously that people must vote. And in America, it's become such a casual thing, which explains a lot of the hyperbole that we hear in the media and why people say such bombastic things, because they're trying to get people off their couch to actually go vote. But to your point, we have the most beautiful situation in America. Like our founders and those before us fought to give us the right to choose and to elect, and that we actually are the ones that lead the government, right? The government works for us.

That's a republic.

That's right. It's a republic, not a democracy.

Right.

As you actually will hear so many political leaders talk about, democracies are actually not the best setup. Our founders were not for democracy. They were for a republic. They were for a representative republic. And so when we don't choose to elect our leaders, we have completely abandoned this amazing responsibility that we've been given, that's been fought for, that most countries would die to have this opportunity. But in addition to that, you know, our votes can't just be about these elections that take place every 4 years. And, you know, you and I are talking about it because it's a presidential election. We're talking about who's going to be the executive, who's the president, but many times we forgo the voting that takes place on an annual basis in our own local communities. But John, you know, this country breaks down into 3,200 counties roughly. Okay. So the 3,200 counties, those counties, each county runs a little bit differently and it's based on who's the school board, who's your county commissioner, who's your sheriff. You see, these are the, these are actually the offices. And I think this was a great experiment where people could watch this play out. Just a few years ago when COVID policies were being enacted, pushed federally, and you started to see states go, well, I'm not going to adopt that, or I am going to do that. And then you got down to the counties and whoever your county leadership was, that was determining what your life was going to look like. And so it's a good example and a reminder, these local elections, they matter a lot. Certainly whoever's running this country, our senators, our Congress, our president matters, and party platforms matter, and your vote matters. And sometimes your vote is one that you used to vote against something that you are 100% against. And then sometimes it's you're voting 100% for something. It's very hard to find candidates that perfectly are going to represent what it means to be a Christian, but you certainly can find candidates and you can find those who can represent the majority of what you believe to be true about how God's designed human beings to function and flourish. And that's ultimately to me what this process is about, is us as Christians recognizing what are, what are the imperfect policies being put forward that will cause the most human flourishing. To me, that is the central question Christians should be asking in this election.

So can I address an attitude that so many have? They don't vote because they don't like either candidate. And I, I really want to take the time to address this. There have been so many times I've walked into a voting poll, and I'm talking about local state and national. I didn't like either candidate that was on the ballot, either one on the major ballot, 'cause if I vote for an independent, I'm basically throwing my vote away. But I had to choose which one was more in line with the Bible, and I had to realize I'm not electing a pastor, I'm not electing my wife, like 41 years ago when I was choosing my wife, I'm electing the better. So let's just do a scenario. We got 15 people that are godly. These 15 people know the word of God, they're godly. Then we got 10 people that are completely, like, they're ungodly, they want to abuse people, they want government to control people's lives, okay. And these 15 outnumber the 10. Now we got 2 candidates. All the 15 people don't like either candidate, but one candidate says, "We're gonna kill babies up to 1 year, and we're gonna kill everybody over 65 'cause they're not worth society anymore." The other candidate goes, "You know, this and this and this, but definitely don't agree with that." And that's not on his or her platform. All these 15 people go, "I don't like either one, so I'm not voting." Now they've just given the majority vote to that 10, and that 10 could possibly elect that person that says, we're gonna kill all the 65-year-olds and all the babies that are under 1 year old that you don't like, you feel like it's not right, you can just, you know, we'll call it abortion and it's done.

Yeah.

You, by you withdrawing, you have actually enabled the ungodly to pick. So your hand now is responsible by your negligence. We have sins of commission and sins of omission. Yeah, this is a sin of omission. By you pulling away, not making your voice known when that's— yeah, it's your, your, your responsibility. You now can actually say, I'm responsible for allowing that person to get elected. I know I am probably making some people feel very uncomfortable by saying you are responsible, but to be honest with you, If 100% of the evangelicals in America voted, we would start turning this ship.

Yeah. Well, and you're in good company. Os Guinness, who's a social critic, historian, somebody who really understands this at a philosophical level, an academic level, he 100% agrees with you. Every Christian must vote. He thinks putting your vote towards an independent candidate that just makes you feel good is a complete throwaway vote and a cop-out, and that you actually should vote for who you know, one of these two parties, one of these two leaders is going to be the executive. And you have a responsibility to steward that, knowing that of course, neither one of these executives are going to be perfect, are going to 100% align. And then I would step back further, John, and just say this election continues to represent something much more serious in the way that our country's moving forward. I think most of us understand there's an accelerating pace of change moving forward right now. And this election's going to represent leadership. That actually is saying, you know what, I think the sovereignty of a nation matters. And one party actually thinks the sovereignty of the nation isn't as important, that we actually should start to become part of more of a global community. And you're seeing so much more discussion about the global versus the national versus the state. And this is a very important thing for Christians to understand because what we're seeing more of, especially over the last decade, but the last several years it's accelerated, is you have global crisis, that requires global solutions, that require global institutions, that ultimately require global governance, which ultimately gets to a one-world government. I mean, that's where that journey leads. And yet you have a nation that in the middle of that says, no, actually, we're a nation. We care about our borders. We care about our boundaries. We care about the culture that we've created for human beings to flourish. And we believe that we are going to try to exist in the best way that we can, as America has for hundreds of years in a way that people long to be a part of this nation because there's a set of values, there's a set of principles, there's a basis to this that's actually much stronger than whatever this global governance thing is going to be. And so this election continues to push into that where I think Christians should be thinking about that. Do we want to be part of a global government, a one-world government, or do we think it's more important for the nation to exist? But one step further, you see, the nation exists to resist the global. That's why a nation actually exists. And then you go to the local level. The local exists to kind of resist the nation and resist federalist policies that come down and impact the local. George Washington talks about this 48 times. He makes this reference to Micah 4:4 where he talks about every man sitting under their vine and fig tree. And it's this really interesting reference where when he describes it, he talks about when he retires, he wants to go back to Mount Vernon to sit under his own vine and fig tree. And it's a reference to localism, this idea that every human being actually should have the opportunity to sit underneath their own food source, that they should have their own little plot of land that allows them to be independent. And that verse goes on to say, with no fear of man, that you'd sit in peace, not fearful of somebody coming to take what is yours. It was an ultimate thing that George Washington appreciated because it spoke to individual liberty, individual freedom. And I believe that kind of conversation's a very important one for the Christian right now. Because we're moving into a season where resisting tyranny, resisting sort of authoritarian-type policies that seek to control individuals versus support individual liberty, families, those are the things that are part of the ballot as you think about this election season.

You know, I just look at— there's two regimes right now. On a national, local, and even, I mean, it's happening everywhere. And I think you have to ask yourself, do we have a resistor or a transgressor that we're voting for? I think I would ask people to think what would be more dangerous, somebody who actually resists a believer, the Christian faith, or somebody who transgresses And I think the grand transgressor, yes, it's wrong, both are wrong, is less dangerous to our individual freedoms under that fig tree than the resister. 'Cause the resister says, I wanna control you and you're going to believe what I believe, even though I don't really believe in anything. I believe in myself, I believe in government, I believe we make our own lives. And I think this is so important that people understand that. You're just allowing people to get into local, state, and national, levels that want to control you.

Yeah. Well, and we're also in a season, I mean, we're in a civilizational crisis moment. And I've spent some time with world leaders in different contexts, not just in America, in Europe, gathering together to say, look, the West is on the edge of collapse. Western values and ideas that come out of a Christian basis. There's those that run governmental, global governmental organizations that part of their agenda is to actually deconstruct Western values, to say Western values don't matter. These are the values that have said human beings ought to flourish. Life matters. We're made in the image of God. We're designed to have freedom. We're given our rights not from a government, we're given our rights from God. We should have the freedom of speech and assembly. These are all important God-given rights, not state-given rights. And so those who would say we are in this crisis would say, look, there's only 3 ways through this. One is renewal. People are going to come back to understanding who we are as human beings, how God's designed us to function, and we'll see a complete renewal. There doesn't seem to be a lot of appetite, but I am seeing some breakthrough on that. We are starting to see world leaders come to know Christ and start to speak very openly about the role of Christ. I think of the president of El Salvador who's speaking out very publicly about his Christian faith and how it's leading him to lead his nation and the flourishing. They've gone from the number one crime capital in the world to now one of the safest cities in the world in 5 years. So you're having some outspoken— I think of Russell Brand. I mean, people that are these pop figures that many people would've never thought would care about God or Christ.

My wife listens all the time.

And now he's out there just pronouncing Christian faith and trying to understand it. And I'm not here advocating for— Yeah, he's a baby Christian, but. But you're hearing Joe Rogan have conversations about faith and having Christians come on and kind of present what is a Christian view. Jordan Peterson. I mean, I could go on and on about renewal, that there's a brewing for renewal. So that's possible.

Go ahead.

The second thing though is replacing what this country was. And that's been the track we've been on for a while, replacing this understanding of God with more of a secular idea. And that's not working out so well. We're seeing kind of the outcomes of not valuing the image of God in human beings. We become dehumanized. We have an abortion number that just is unbelievable of how many children have been aborted. I have 2 children with Down syndrome. 9 out of 10 of those children are aborted when the parent is told in utero that their child might have Down syndrome as a diagnosis, even though there's so many false positives that take place in that testing. The point is, replacing God leads to a complete dehumanization of a society. And so the third is we actually devolve into a crisis that essentially is where a lot of leaders would point and say we are, which becomes a group of people that become an anti-Christian group. They start to come against Christian ideas because you got to understand the Christian's the only thing that kind of sits in the way of a tyranny because Christians have no allegiance to a government, no allegiance to a king or to even a president or an executive, we have an allegiance to God. That's who tells us what to do. We are going to operate as part of a kingdom that literally sits itself outside of whatever this global rule is going to be. And so that resistance to that is an incredible threat. And so you are going to continue to see the name of Christianity be drug through the mud because Christians must be gotten out of the way. Yes. And it right now is through rhetoric., but one day it could be actually by force. And so I think what I learned from reading the New Testament, I think of this phrase enduring patiently. We see it all throughout Revelation. We see it all throughout the New Testament. There's a call for Christians to have patient endurance. It means we're steadfast, we're strong, we're enduring through suffering. We're enduring through just like in this empire that they were in, they were the minority. They didn't have a lot of power. They were enduring, but they were patient. They were trusting the outcomes of this story We know how it ends, and that's going to allow us to live with more courage, bravery, and we're going to actually fight for the things that we know God's designed human beings to flourish in.

You know, I look at— we've put over 4 million resources into the underground church of Iran, and we've learned so much about Iran. I've been to Eastern Europe quite a bit. I was just in Yerevan, Armenia in the last month, and the people of Iran are some of the most beautiful people in the world. There is an absolute revival going on in Iran. But what's the situation? Iran has a government, they have leaders that are so anti-God, anti-Christianity, anti-Jew, anti-Semitic, and yet here the people are so beautiful. If you look at the same thing happen in Venezuela, all it takes is for the wrong leadership to get that power they want, and then all of a sudden freedoms are lost. I've had so many people from Eastern Europe saying, you guys, are walking through what we walked through. We saw it coming. These are really old people that speak to me. We saw it coming back in the '20s, '30s, '40s, whenever it happened for their nation in Eastern Europe. You guys are walking into this right now. We see all the similar signs that are happening because you're doing nothing. You're allowing it. Your voices are silent. And I think, and I know some people are gonna be really upset, but silence is consent. When we remain silent, then all of a sudden we are granting access for evil to take a stronger foothold. And I want to return back to the local because the local is so important. There is a church that I am in relationship with, and this church, all of a sudden they started realizing the hideous things that were being taught in high schools, in their public high schools. Like, unbelievable. All about sex change, everything else affirming, and everything else. And so they said, you know, here we are, we're this church with influence. What are we doing just watching this? So one of the executive pastors started going around all the churches and said, look, we can talk about family members that are running Aren't we part of the family of God? I mean, you're not wanting to lose your 501(c)(3) status because you don't want to talk about the election. Just say, we got a family member that's running. If you want to vote for the family member, this is who they are. They started doing that. They took over the school boards, literally took over in 7 counties around the church, and they took over the city council. And everything started changing. They stopped bringing in the books, teaching the students what they were teaching because why?

Leadership.

That's right. John Maxwell says something that's so true, and that is that leadership is about influence. And as the leader goes, so go the people. And so this is why what you're doing is so very important.

Yeah, well, I think the local is the place everybody listening this comes home to the local. What are you doing to create trusted networks of community? I think when you go through a civilizational crisis where people do have a lot of real fears about the economy, about food supply chains, I mean, we're seeing the medical system fall apart in some ways, things that people could have relied on forever, at least since we've been living. All of a sudden, there's a bit of a question mark, which leads us back to going locally. How are we building parallel structures? How are we creating ways in which people can still flourish when these things break down. You know, where the average person in America has 3 days' worth of supply of food, right? That's, that's not enough. The power goes out, the storm comes through, a cyber attack takes place. People aren't ready for that. And the church is going to have to step in and be prepared for it. So with the church leaders we work with through Think, we're doing everything we can to help those leaders start to prepare and to see that they're going to be a lighthouse during these moments where people are going to have a lot of fear., but you're able to be steadfast if you're prepared. If you're not prepared, you won't be steadfast. You'll be running around trying to figure out how to survive yourself and not able to supply for the people that are around us. And so we believe every church, every community, every person listening to this should take that leadership role as a Christian to say, I want to care for my community beyond just my family. I don't want to just prep and care for myself in all these crisis moments. I actually want to have an overflow so that when people are fearful or afraid, we can actually help them in their broken state or in their fear. We can lead them to Jesus because they realize that there's something bigger that they're living for that's not just about the comforts of this world. And so these are kind of the practical things that I think people can be doing and church leaders are doing. And I think people listening should be encouraged by that. There's a lot of church leaders thinking about that, working on that. Right.

Yeah. I look at overseas because we do so much work overseas. If somebody's got food, somebody's got discipleship material, materials, all of a sudden now the community is drawn to them because they don't have. So you just made a very good point. If we're thinking community, if we're thinking ourselves, we're not going to do very much. But if we're thinking community, like I look at you and Rebecca and you actually have people within your group that they actually bought land and said, we want to take care of the community if something happens. And he was a very successful businessman, very successful. But he said, you know what? I want to be there for people when they're in need. And so these are things, practical things we can actually do to be a light, to be salt. We're called to be a salt and light into a dark world. Gabe, when I look at it, Psalm 60 says, darkness is going to cover the earth and deep darkness the people, but the light shall arise upon you. Arise, not descend. So first of all, you're never going to see darkness and gross darkness on people in the millennium. He's talking about the last days. So I think we just need to understand that we're called to be light. We're called to reveal his light to a dark world. And that takes so many practical aspects. So what are some of the more practical things, other practical things people can do? And also, how can they find out about you and Because here you are doing all this labor. I look at you and Rebecca, you work so diligently, you and your teams of people, to be able to get this information. Because to be honest with you, I'm going to kind of reveal myself here. I stopped watching network news probably around 2016. I just, I haven't watched network news at all. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, their question comes to me is, how do we find out the truth? How do we really know what's going on? Yeah. Because people are lying today in leadership, and they're actually really good at lying. They act like they really, really care when they want to control me and dominate me and tell me what I can believe and not believe. Yeah. Where do people get their news source? Where do people get the information that's true?

Well, the first thing people have to do is, to this point, is to stay informed, stay aware. You've got to listen to trusted sources. And I look at a trusted source as original sources. So if I'm hearing something crazy in the news, on social media, I'm going to probably not trust that immediately. I'm going to want to dig a little bit deeper. Now, we don't have time to do that, but I will say through Think Media, we try to do that. We try to spend the time and energy to better understand what's happening culturally in this moment. Who should we trust? What should we believe? And so after 20 years, you start to develop a pretty great, robust understanding of the people that are trusted. And so we try to do that for people. But I think for each individual, it's taking account of your inputs. Who are you listening to?

Okay, you went over that so fast. Okay, I'm listening right now. This podcast, Think Media, has done all this work. I want to know what they've done. How do they get a hold of you?

Yes, thank you. Yes, Think Media. And think is spelled with a Q, so it's spelled T-H-I-N-Q media.com. Now, this is a platform where we have over 1,000 talks, 9 minutes long. These are short talks.. They inform you on a variety of different topics where we bring together subject matter experts on all of the topics that hit your life, these different industries, and allow you as a leader in culture to think well as a Christian about how to navigate it. We also have, and I have a series and a podcast called Undercurrent. Now, Undercurrent is designed to really help inform Christians of understanding the times, what you and I talked about earlier, to try to understand this current moment where we sit right now in the middle of the 2020s, What's happening globally? What's happening locally? What are the big issues at hand? How do we as Christians think biblically about how to engage those? So there's a couple of seasons there that people can reference through thinkmedia.com or on any platform. And then I would just say, you know, I wrote a letter to Christian leaders and I would say to any person listening to this, it's available, it's free. It has over 50 different links and footnotes that would allow you to go a lot deeper into some of what we won't get to uncover today about the moment that we're in.. But you can get that at gabellions.com, and on the homepage, you can literally just download this letter that would give you a deeper perspective on the moment that we're in so that you can actually learn and go dig in yourself to some of these original sources about the state of our world.

So these are tools you can trust. And guys, let me tell you something. I've known Gabe and Rebecca for years, Lisa and I. You talk about godly people. I mean, look, you didn't say it, I'm going to say it. You had a son, and your oldest son was Down syndrome, and you love him and enjoy life with him so much you actually adopted a little girl from China with Down syndrome. I mean, this is the kind of people that Gabe and Rebecca are. They love their children. Their children have so much respect for them. Gabe is a very strong, biblically based believer. Now, you guys, you come to me, you're always looking for me to teach the word of God, to bring biblical principles to light. That's what I'm anointed to do. I'm looking at a man that God has anointed him to do what we are talking about, to really inform his people so they're not ignorant, so they're not the simpleton who just ignores what's happening and gets the consequences. God has anointed this group to be able to get into your hands without you having to go, I wonder if this is really gonna be true. I wonder if this is trustworthy. No, I'm telling you, I know Gabe is a person. That's why Gabe is on this podcast. That is a wealth, a wealth of information to help you guide your life, your decisions, who you vote for, how you pray with much greater understanding. Understanding and knowledge are so important. And so I wanna emphasize again, ThinkMedia.com. Undercurrent. And how— I'm sorry, I need, I need to make sure I know how to do this. How do I get the, the 50 things that you wrote to leaders?

Go to gabelions.com.

gabelions.com.

Okay.

And it's on the homepage. So there's 3 things. All right. Okay. I'm making this abundantly clear, Gabe, because you could talk on this podcast for 5 hours, for 10 hours, and we wouldn't have covered all you know because you know so much. I want to make sure they know where to go to get what you know.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I need that help sometimes. Hey, listen, I'm thanking you. We're all thanking you, because I don't like taking the time to do that when I'm called to do what I'm called to do. Look, Gabe, I'll be honest with everybody. I went down a rabbit hole in 2020. I did. And I admit it. My wife actually said to me, she said, John, you're thinking about this stuff too much. And the problem was I was going to wrong sources. The problem was I was listening to just everybody and anybody because I was so desperate for information. Sure, sure. Right? Yeah. And I've learned from that. This election is the most— I am trying to be so strategic on how I understand what's going on in this election by going to sources I know and trust. And that's why it was really important to have you on today. So I'm thanking you. You don't need to thank me. We are all thanking you for the work you've done. Thank you. Thank you.

So what else do you want to share? Well, I think, you know, practically we've got to stay informed. That's going to get hard in an AI world. It's going to get hard where censorship's taking place and it's hard to get to original sources. I'm so thankful for Twitter/X, Elon Musk, what he's done there to create a free speech exchange space. That's been huge because what's happening is evil's getting exposed. The light actually is coming upon evil. And that's why I'm encouraged. Like a lot of people might be discouraged, man, there's so much craziness going on. No, we're just now seeing the craziness that has been going on.. You're now just aware of it. So don't be fretful about that. Be excited that when the truth starts to come out, when evil deeds are exposed and shown in the light, as Ephesians talks about, this is when actual change can take place. So be excited about that. The other thing is people have to gather consistently. We're seeing such a drop-off in church attendance and people coming together in communities. There's more isolation happening. We have got to come together. When we're together in person, I lead a Bible study. Addison's part of that. Every week on Tuesday mornings where a group of men, we just celebrated 5 years of doing this, where every Tuesday morning we are reading the scripture together and we're discussing what is God and the Spirit of God showing to us through these passages? It's not a group that just sits around and talks about our latest stories and all that.

No, we are reading the scripture together.

You have some massive influencers in that group. Well, and this group has bonded around gathering consistently so that when the rabbit hole comes up of Man, I wonder what's happening in the world. When you always bring that back through a biblical lens, you have such a peace about what God's up to in the world. You don't need to understand it all. You just need to understand that you can trust him and you can walk with him and abide in him faithfully every day. So I want to encourage people, keep gathering consistently. The third thing is create space for dialogue. When election seasons come, a lot of people, especially in the church, start to isolate. They're scared they're going to ruffle feathers. They don't know how to talk about it. That's something I'm excited about we're even partnering on where we're creating an event on October 3rd that anybody listening to this, you can host. Hundreds of churches will host this throughout America on the night of October 3rd. It's a Thursday night at 7:00 PM. And what we do is we work as an organization with every church to provide them with several talks, one of which will be a 9-minute talk that you're doing on how do we have hope beyond politics? How do we make sure November 6th, We are still people of hope no matter what the outcome of this election is, because we know who's actually in charge. And those talks are a way for a church and a pastor to pull their people together outside of a Sunday morning and say, let's create space to talk about this. We need space where you guys can interact with each other. We can hear some talks. We have Os Guinness as a part of that, who I've referenced multiple times. He's been a huge mentor on my life. Some of the ideas I've shared with you today directly have come from him and I's conversation specifically about how do we think well as Christians and evangelicals about the moment we're in. So that night, this event, and we'll have a link here, I think, that people can access if they're interested. This is a way that they can be proactive.

But don't think about them just for them. Get a group, even if it's in your neighborhood, even if it's people you work for.

And if you're a pastor, please, please engage. Yeah, because your people are hungry for it. They're going to other sources. They are listening to influential voices, and they have a lot of them in their life and in their ear. They have the mainstream media, which you and I both have abandoned for a long time, but they have a lot of other sources. Why are we as church leaders, as Christians, going to make sure— how do we make sure we're going to be a big source in their life to think well? Like the conversation we're trying to have today, every local congregation should be having that. The other thing is to evangelize the fearful. I think you're going to come into so many conversations in the coming days where people are truly scared to death. They're scared about their future. They're scared about World War III. They're scared about a coming draft for their kids. You never know. There's all kinds of things that will be put in this space to create fear. The enemy loves to do that. But let's take advantage of that. Let's turn that evil for good. Let's turn that fear into giving people hope that goes far beyond our circumstances.

And that's what I love about you. You're courageous. You are not fearful. You walk in this level of peace that's absolutely beautiful. So everybody listen to me. I mean, you should always look at the teacher you're listening to. What is their lifestyle? That's Hebrews 13:16, I believe it is. It says, consider their outcome. And I look at the peace that's on Gabe and Rebecca, and it's beautiful. And that's the kind of peace that all of us should be walking in. Even though we're living in very, very dark times, we have a higher way. But that way is not going to manifest if we go into a shell and we decide to isolate. A man who isolates himself, Proverbs 18:1 says, seeks his own desire and rages against all wise judgment. This is not the time to isolate yourself. This is the time to speak up, to make the voice of truth be known. And so, all right, you have said— all right, I'm thinking about pastors right now because a lot of pastors listen to this. Okay, so they can come on on October 3rd, The link's going to be provided. All right, we've got the 50 questions at gayblinds.com. I am listening.

What else can pastors do to lead the people? They got to create space, whether it's through what we're talking about October 3rd or not. I'm going to encourage pastors to disciple your people through these coming months very carefully. Don't tell them how to vote. Don't tell them who you're voting for. That takes away their actual free right to feel in their conscience before God who they're going to vote for. But disciple them. To understand human flourishing and God's design biblically for what righteousness looks like, for what justice looks like, for how do we truly value human beings as it relates to caring about poverty. Talk about stewardship. What does it mean to steward the resources of a country? How are our resources being stewarded under current leadership, under the two proposed candidates? And so I think those types of principles are really important. The other thing is to help our people not be fear. I think this idea of being a non-anxious presence is a really important concept that in a world of anxiety, how do you show up in rooms and you are a person of peace? You're a peacemaker. You bring peace to the conversations that you're having that doesn't continue to stir up strife, but actually helps people take a breath, get a bigger perspective, not believe that everything's going to come down to who wins this election. I know we'll be tempted and told that this election's going to change everything. I can tell you, The last 4 years of my life have been the most rich, abundant, fruitful. The friendships, the going deep with God, deep in the Word, the mission of the work that we're on has been more important than ever. And it didn't have anything to do with who was elected. Right.

And so be careful not to fall into the trap. That trap of thinking. And I want to echo my sentiments on this one. I do not believe who we elect into office is going to change our nation. I believe an awakening is going to change our nation. Our staff, prays for every single day for a new Great Awakening in the United States. And, um, it is a move of God that changes men and women's hearts. It's not elected officials. That's right. However, it just— the elected officials will determine how much freedoms and rights you're going to be able to have. And, and I do want to say this, I, I felt like a lot of people, when their candidate gets in, whoever their candidate is, they Relax instead of realizing we're still in the same war. There are still the same demons trying to destroy our neighborhoods, our families, our communities, our nation. And I almost wonder if the last 4 years, maybe the church woke up a little bit more and started praying a little bit more diligently. I know I can say our team this coming March will be 4 years running that we have prayed every single day. We actually pay our employees. So in other words, they clock in at 8, we pray from 8 to 8:20 every single morning. And that's the premium that we put on prayer because Paul said, pray for those in authority that we might live a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and honesty. And I'm convinced if it would've been a republic that Paul, if there would've been any republics that Paul was a part of, He would've said, pray for those in authority and vote. That's right. Let your voice be known so that we might live a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and honesty. So there's consequences if you don't pray. How much more consequences if you don't vote, if you don't let your voice be known? Yeah. So Gabe, I just want to thank you for what you're doing. I think we've given everybody abundant tools to where they can spend a lot of time and get a massive amount of accurate information so that they can act accordingly rather than sending people on down rabbit holes like I kind of slipped into in 2019, 2020. I think we're giving people what they need so that they can spend the energy on doing what's needed instead of trying to spend the energy to find what's needed. Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. You have so accurately and beautifully done this, and I want to thank you so very much for what you've done and what you're going to continue to do. Is there any final things that you want to say that maybe I didn't cover by questions I asked or anything at all?

Well, I just want to remind us as the church that what endures forever into eternal, these are described as the eternals, faith, hope, and love. And the enemy's going to come against that with fear, right? He's going to come against it with depression and anxiety, and he's going to come against it with death and trying to steal and destroy. But faith, hope, and love, we'll be celebrating those attributes forever. And so let's live into that now. Let's practice it now. Let's endure patiently and let's continue to look forward to the hope that we know God's up to in this world. It may look a little dark at times. It's going to look dark, but we're going to continue to keep our heads up because we're going to be focused on patiently enduring because he says when you endure patiently, you will be rewarded. So let's keep the eye on the prize and continue to endure.

I love that. Gabe, thank you again. Thanks for your friendship. Thanks for what you're doing for the body of Christ.

We love you and we appreciate you. Thank you, John.