You’re Trying to Walk Through the Wrong Door

I was trying to promote my own ministry. I've got a very salesy personality. I kept trying to open up doors, trying to open up doors, and the Lord said to me, "Fuck off." Boy, I've never forgotten that. Because of our culture, because of our social media, because of the way people know how to promote themselves today, we can open up our own doors.

How do you know it's you opening up the door versus God opening up the door?

Jesus said, "I know all the things you do, and I have an open door for you that no one can close." What do open doors and closed doors mean? You may be really upset at me saying this, but I want to ask you a question. I've got to be honest with the people and tell them, if you walk in fellowship with Jesus, if you really pursue after him, I believe you're going to be removed from this earth before the tribulation. If a train's leaving and you don't know when that train's departing, but I tell you sometime during that day that train is going to depart, and if you're not on it, you miss it, what are you going to do? Hey everyone, welcome to the Jon Bevere Podcast. I am Jon Bevere, joined by my son Arden. Arden, it's good to see you. Big smile.

Good to see you too, Dad.

Hey, you know what I'm really excited about? We're talking about a church that Jesus didn't correct.

I know. There you go. What is it? 2 out of the 7?

Yes, 2 out of the 7. And we're finally— I feel like we've got like a break. But you know, it's interesting. I just can't stop thinking about this. What would Jesus say say to the Church of America today? Let's say John the Apostle was still alive and he's out on Alcatraz and he's been put out there because he's being persecuted for his faith and Jesus appears to him. What would he say to the Church of America? Yeah. And I'm looking at— come on, guys, let's just be really honest. I mean, I'm looking at all these churches and some of the things that said— I mean, we just got done talking about you have a name that says or a reputation that says you're alive, but you're dead. Only somebody that truly loves can say something that strong. Yeah. I mean, you know, yes, you can hate somebody and say something mean, but let me tell you something, Jesus isn't saying it to be mean. He's saying it because he really loves them and he doesn't want to flatter them. Yeah. So, you know, as I open this up, I'm going to ask some questions because some things are pretty powerful truths are revealed in this letter to the Philadelphia church. Let's ask these questions. Can someone lose what they have worked for? I'm talking about in the kingdom. Can somebody lose what they've worked very hard for? Here's another question I wanna ask. What do open doors and closed doors mean? What do open doors and closed doors mean? What's the great time of testing that's gonna come on all the inhabitants of the world?

Yeah.

Are there believers that are going to be around during that time? Here's another question. Can your crown be taken? Hmm. Remember, there's the crown of righteousness.

Yeah.

Can it be taken? There's so much in this letter. Now let's talk about the city of Philadelphia. Its founder was Attalus Philadelphus of Pergamon. Okay, so Pergamon was one of the churches we talked about. It was intended to be a center of missionary work for the Hellenistic way of life. The Hellenistic wasn't hell, hell, it was the Greek way of life.

Okay.

And it was the center of worship for many false gods. Uh, the church enemies, these church enemies here came from the outside. They weren't really so much from the inside.

Yeah.

Um, it had a good deal in common with the Smyrna church that also was persecuted, and Again, both these churches did not receive any criticism, and they both suffered by people who called themselves Jews. I would say people who call themselves believers but really aren't. Yeah.

And they won the Super Bowl, right? Okay.

Yeah, they won the Super Bowl. I love it. That's so great.

No kidding.

So, uh, yeah, Philadelphia. So anyway, it's not the Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. So we're going to read the entire letter. Uh, Jesus says, write this letter to the messenger of the church of Philadelphia. This message is from The one who is holy and true. The Bible commands us to be holy as he is holy. The one who has the key of David. What he opens, no man closes, and what he closes, no one can open. Yeah. Jesus said, I know all the things you do, and I have an open door for you that no one can close. I love that you have little strength, Yet you've obeyed my word and did not deny me. Look, I will force those who belong to Satan's synagogue. So we'd say today Satan's church, those liars who say they are Jews, who say they are believers but are not, to come and bow down at your feet. Wow. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love because you have obeyed my command to persevere. I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. That's a key statement. Mm-hmm. I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have so that no one will take away your crown. All who are victorious will become pillars in the temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God, and they will be citizens in the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And I will also write on them— I love this— my new name. Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches. Okay, so let's just deal with the obvious one. What is he said? He said, look, I've got the key of David. Yeah. What is he referring to? Now, if we let Scripture interpret Scripture, we only see this phrase, the key of David, one time in Scripture, and that's found in the book of Isaiah. And that is when King Hezekiah had a palace administrator and the guy's name was Shen— Shemna. Shemna is, I think, the way they say it. This guy, Shemna, if you read in Isaiah 22, I believe it is. Yes, it is Isaiah 22. This guy was building this massive monument to his grave. Okay. So he's in the middle of using the power, the authority that's committed to him to build this elaborate, expensive, opulent monument for his burial. Yeah. He also has this unbelievable chariot. Like, this guy is using his position for creating opulence, abundance in his life. Okay. So God comes along and says, I'm going to replace you. Yeah. Okay. And we read in Isaiah 22, and then I— this is God speaking here— and then I will call my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah, to replace you. God does replace people. He's talking to Shamballa. I will dress him in your royal robes and I will give him your title and your authority, and he will be a father to the people of Jerusalem and Judah. Isn't it wonderful that God says he's actually got shepherds? The highest position in the royal court When he opens the door, no one will be able to close them. And when he closes the door, no one will be able to open them. So the emphasis here is on the accessibility to King Hezekiah. King Hezekiah would represent God Almighty in this situation. Remember, these are types and shadows on the earth of what, what is to come. Yeah.

Meaning you have access to the king and you have access to all the resources, everything.

Yeah, basically. So Jesus is the king who will forever sit on David's throne. Okay. But he's also, for some reason, associating himself with the person who is the palace administrator, gives access. Yeah. Perhaps he's talking about direct access to the Father. This I'm not fully sure about. But all I do know is that this is speaking about access to God. Yeah.

Which, I mean, can I even say this is— I remember when I was leaving my internship, this was the prophecy that was spoken over by me. And so long I've asked that question of like, what does that actually mean? What is it meaning? I'm giving you the key of David, which I know of course we're talking about it today, but that's always been something that's very close to my heart of like, what does that actually mean? Because as a young kid, I had that prophesied over me and I'm still trying to figure out what does that fully mean in my mind?

Sounds pretty strong. Well, I, I believe in essence a minister of the gospel, if he's operating faithfully, leads people into the presence of God. Yeah, I've often said this in my past. I've said a false prophet will draw you to himself, his own gifts. A true prophet will draw you to the heart of God. When you leave the presence of a false prophet, you want to go back and get another word, another ministry time. You'll, you'll want to just you want to— he just draws you to himself. When you leave the presence of a true prophet, you want to see God like you've never sought him before. So this church had little strength. Jesus is talking about, right? And either this means they were small in number or they were heavily, heavily persecuted. I would lean towards the small in number of believers. And so they kept the word of the Lord not to deny his name. I love that. And because of that, he said, I'll open doors to you that no man can shut, and I'll shut doors that no man can open. Now, when you think about that, that's speaking of assistance. I think about in America, Arden, how we can, we can use our resources, our connectivity, our social media to open up doors for ourselves. Yeah. So often I'm meeting people. Well, I'm writing my book, and you know, Lisa checking into the hotel late the other night, she's ministering in the morning. This lady recognizes who she is and she's like, oh my gosh, you're gonna show me how to do this. I've just wrote my first book. She says, you're gonna come to my room. I want you to read my books. I want you to tell me how to do my social media. And Lisa was like, John, what are people thinking? What are we training them? Are we thinking this is just like Hollywood? Are we thinking this is like I'm getting my opportunity to get my first role in acting in a movie? This is ministry. This is something that if we're found faithful to God, he anoints us and he opens doors that no man can shut and shuts doors that no man can open.

Well, and I love that it's highlighting because you have little power. Like, I think that's the thing is you look at a church and even a pastor of a small church could feel like, well, I'm just pastoring a small church. And it's like right here it's highlighting, I'm giving you the keys of David, which means I'm opening up the doors. Like, I love that saying, I'm opening up the doors to the city for you. It doesn't matter how large your church is, doesn't matter how how big your platform is. What does matter is, am I the one who appointed you? Am I the one that gave you authority? And whether you are a large platform, 'cause you could have these massive platforms or massive churches, and it's not actually God who's the one who appointed them and gave them the King of David. It is their self-appointment, and they're not getting the access or the power or the authority to be able to do the things they're hoping to do.

Hey everyone, we're going to take a break from the teaching just for a moment because I want to tell you about something I'm very passionate about. Goodranchers.com. You know, 85% of the meat that comes in the grocery store that you buy is imported. Much of that meat has steroids, antibiotics. Well, there is a very godly couple that Lisa and I know. It's Ben and Corley. They have this company called Good Ranchers. And what they do is they are feeding over 100,000 families and they send meat right to your front door and they get the meat from small town farms. Now listen, every single day there is another farm closing because we're not connecting those small farms with the people. Good Ranchers has taken that on, and they have got meat that we get delivered right to our door. Saves us from having to do last-minute grocery runs. And I want to give you this opportunity to get $40 off your order, and you'll get free meat for the rest of your life that you order from them. What do you do? You go to goodranchers.com, use my code theveer, and what Lisa and I have been doing, getting our meat from these wonderful people who get it from small farms. So again, go to goodranchers.com. American meat delivered. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I want to, I want to elaborate on what you just said. Yeah. So the word open— I'm, I'm going to go to the Greek on these words. The word open means to make possible some opportunity, to grant access or passage from one place to another. The word door is the Greek word thura, which means a large, solid door. Now, this is actually written in one of the commentaries. When such doors were open, it provided access that was normally restricted and hence denotes opportunity and passage into new places. Now, I believe this does have to do with access with God, but I also believe it has to do with access to ministry because Paul actually asks a couple of times, pray for me that doors of opportunity will open. He talks about doors of opportunity opening. He was meeting with one church, he said, pray for me that God will open up a door for me that I might preach boldly as I ought to speak. Actually, I've got some of them right here. I forgot about that. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 16:9, there is a wide open door for a great work here, although many oppose me. He said in 2 Corinthians 2:12, when I came to the city of Troas to preach the good news of Christ, the Lord opened a door of opportunity for me. Paul prayed in Colossians 4:3 that God would open to us a door for the word to speak the mystery of Christ for which I am also in chains. Now, I remember I was trying to promote my own ministry. I actually talked some people into giving us some money. I called it Bevere Ministries. The subline was Reaching the World Through His Marvelous Light. It was the earth with the sun coming around. And I actually made the first master message. It was on a cassette tape. This is so long ago. And your mom and her best friend were my two congregation members. And 5 minutes into my message, your mom fell asleep. Her friend had drool coming out of the side of her mouth. And I remember that was one of the 4 messages on my first tape series I met. And I'm doing all this to promote my own ministry. So I, in essence, was doing what that lady was doing with your mother the other night, right at the hotel. That was me. I used to say, Paul said, "I'm the chiefest of sinners." I knew I was the chiefest of master strivers. I was so trying to get myself in ministry. And I'll never forget this. I kept trying to open up doors, trying to open up doors, trying to, and I would have some success because I've got a very salesy personality. And I think that's part of the equipment of being an actual preacher of the gospel. There is ability to convince people, right? People have laughed and they said, oh, you know, John, he's a good salesman. And I think that's part of the equipment for, for preaching, but it wasn't being used correctly. Yeah. And so I, I remember just one, one thing after another. I would get an open door. You would have people falling asleep. Like I said, there was really not much fruit being born. And I was actually over in the Philippines. I had pretty much helped myself get over there. I made myself known. And, um, actually, that one was a God-open door. I'll never forget that. But I'm still in the midst of this, right? I'm flying back from the Philippines, and I read this scripture: there was a man sent by God whose name was John. And the sent by God jumped up off the page.

Yeah.

And the Lord said to me, do you want to be sent by John Bevere, or do you want to be sent by God? I said, of course I want to be sent by God. He said, that's good, because if you send yourself, you're going to go in your own authority. He said, but if I send you, you're going to go in my authority. Yeah. And boy, I've never forgotten that. And you can, you can because of our culture, because of our social media, because of the way people know how to promote themselves today. Yeah. The way they know how to make themselves pattern themselves. Create themselves. We can open up our own doors.

So how do you know it's you opening up the door versus God opening up the door? Because I understand, like, there was the striving in some things, but also, like, there is relatively, like, simple process to go through in terms of trying to build your own platform and all those things. Whereas the difference of you feeling like, well, I've got— I know God's given me a message. Like, for you, I'd say God gave you a message. And you want to be a good steward over that message. So in terms of that, people could think, well, I need to open up doors, like I need to do that. So how do you tell the difference and how do you understand the difference between being a good steward and, and like self-promotion?

If you really look at the New Testament, actually the whole Bible, I mean, Paul knew he was called. He knew he was called to be apostle because it was from his mother's womb. So when he got saved, I'm sure he knew it. Just like I knew I was called to ministry, but nothing was opening up unless I blasted it open in my own strength. And then there was no eternal fruit. So if you look at the New Testament, Paul is 11 years serving in the Church of Antioch. And then all of a sudden the elders who— Paul was one of those elders. Yeah. Are fasting and praying. And the Holy Spirit speaks and says, separate unto me Barnabas and Saul for the work I've called them to do. Then they laid hands on him and he being sent out was sent forth by the Holy Spirit. At that time now, you know you're sent. But I remember, you know, it's being led by the Spirit. So because I knew, I knew that, okay, let's just let, let me take you back to my beginning. My pastor actually gave me a letter of recommendation, and I remember addressing all the churches that he had been to, and he was a really well-known pastor.

And he gave you access.

He gave me access. So I thought, okay, I'm doing what he's given me access to. Well, remember I said it's being led by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit came on me and he said, Son, you'll get out of my will if you send these letters out. And I said, God, nobody knows who I am. He said, I know you trust me. And I remember tearing up the envelopes and I thought, either I'm crazy or I'm hearing from God, because basically we had no money. I had very few people that knew I was even available to minister. And I believe that God did that for me to show me it's going to be me that does this. Because for the first 4 and a half years of ministry, because of what happened with that encounter, I made up my mind I would not call one church, one pastor. I would not write one letter. I would just let God supernaturally open up the doors.

Yeah.

And that entire first year, our needs were met. Every door was open supernaturally. I mean, one time I called Mom. She was at— you weren't even born. So this is 1991. We had pay phones. I called Mom at a pay phone at my parents' pool in Florida. And I said, we got a move of God that's broke out in this church here in Michigan. Yeah, I'm sending you and Addison tickets. Because it's going to be a while. And we went 21 services. Well, what I didn't know is there was a pastor of a 2,000-member church at the pool on his vacation. He walks up to Lisa and goes, I'm so sorry, but I was listening to you talk to your husband on the phone. I am desperate for a move of God in my church. Would your husband come to my church? And we went back to that church several times. It was called— I can't remember the name of it at that time— it's called Bethel Full Gospel, and it was on the main street of Rochester, New York. I think it's called something else now. But anyway, I remember the pastor was Ron Dominus, such a godly man, but That's how doors open. I remember I was doing a meeting in one city. A pastor was from another city. He said, would you please come to my city? Yeah, that's how the first 4 and a half years went. Now let me talk about today. Today I feel like I've been in ministry 43 years. I'm more of a father. God will put churches on my heart and I'll call them and I'll say, hey, I feel something. What do you— would you pray about it? And they'll— they always— they always go, I don't need to pray. Often they'll say, I don't need to pray about it. I feel it too. I want you to come right. So yes, there's a listening to the Holy Spirit. I remember after 4.5 years, I felt like I needed to see God open up doors for 4.5 years straight. And once I knew I was established in my position, there were times that I said, "Hey, I've just written a message. This is what it's about. What do you think?" on churches I'd been to before. I don't think— very rarely did a pastor go, no, I just don't really feel for you to come. Yeah, yeah, there was one or two. There was. I remember one church said, we're not interested in John coming. And I found out later is because they were very into a very loose form of grace, and I was preaching a very strong message of repentance, and they didn't want me there. And, um, my, my English office manager said, John, they just don't want you. And I said, Oh wow. Yeah, you know, perhaps some of you were wondering, how in the world does John know about these ancient 7 cities, the 7 churches that Jesus speaks to in Revelation? I do it effortlessly by going to my Logos Bible software. In fact, I can get so much information, accurate information, so quickly with just a few clicks. I've been doing it for years. I've written almost every single book using it, and we have a special. So Arden, how do they get this?

All they got to do is they got to jump over to Logos, so Logos.com/Bevir, and they'll be able to access up to 60 days free. So if you even want to go deeper onto the 7 churches, you can utilize Logos Bible software for absolutely free. But there's also something else. They have combined up to 190 books that you can get that's normally costing over $3,000 that you can get 90% off. So go take advantage of this special offer today. Go over to logos.com/bavir and dive deeper into these 7 churches of Revelation. Well, can I ask this? Because I mean, I love everything that you navigated to that, and I always love hearing that story of you tearing up the the letters. Do you feel like it's harder to take that step nowadays, though? Because in my mind, that was such a faith move. Like you said, like, I need to know, am I either hearing from God or I'm crazy? Like, those are the two things. But then yet we do have such accessibility to promotion and self-promotion where, like, you were sitting there and you're writing out 300 letters where it's a little bit easier nowadays where you just say quickly, I jump on my phone and I I put something up there, the next thing I know I could be receiving invites to do something. I could be becoming kind of almost an authority on a certain topic and things like that. Because I think this goes beyond ministry. I think this is not just for people that are looking to be in ministry. I think this is for anyone that's trying to promote something that God's given them giftings and titles. But how do you feel like we should walk that out, or the balance where I would say it almost feels harder to navigate knowing, is this God or is this Me.

So I love that question and I'm going to answer it with an example. In 1999, there were two very, very well-read. Now you got to remember, you got no social media, you've got no news online, nothing, right?

The world was about to end in 2000.

That's right. But people were still very much reading physical newspapers and physical magazines. There were two magazines in 1999 that were extremely popular. Popular in the church in America. One of them decided to put our family on the COVID I remember we all put on our Detroit Red Wings jerseys and they took pictures of us, right? Rollerblading. And I remember, you know, everybody was advertising and promoting their ministries in this magazine. And it was— you could see it. You could just— and it got to the point where I was like, I don't want to see this. And I, but I remember they were doing an article about our family and they were also writing about "The Betrayal of Satan." Now, "The Betrayal of Satan" at that time was 5 years old and it was a national bestseller. And I remember because I was so committed in the beginning to not promoting myself, I felt this desire to put a full-page ad pay for a full-page ad in the magazine with the article. And I thought, is this me going flipping back to my self-promotion days? So I called a very wise pastor. He was on my board at the time. And I said, I'm really struggling with this. And he said, John, this is really simple. And he made it so easy for me. He said, what is your motive for wanting to put that ad in the magazine? I said, okay. He said, no, tell me your motive. Why would you want to put that in there? I said, because I want people to read The Bait of Satan and get free from offense. Yeah. He said, John, that's a pure, godly motive. I said, I guess it is. He said, they're getting a taste of it in the article and you want them to read the entire message. God gave you that message, John. Yeah. And God is the one that opened up the door to put you on the COVID of this magazine. Take out the ad. And I remember that kind of opened my heart to doing things that may look self-promoting, but I knew it was from here. It wasn't me striving to get myself known. It was me really wanting to minister to people. And I think that's a litmus test all of us should take in the Spirit. Why do you want to do this? Do you want to build something so you can be known? Or has God put it in your heart to really touch people?

Yeah, no, that's really good. And I think you have to constantly ask that self because I think obviously people can hear that and be like, well, yeah, social media is terrible, so don't post something. It's like, no, I post on social media. Social media is a great thing, but it's like you have to continue to keep that question in front of you because God will open up the doors. He can open up the doors on social media. I've seen it so many times where it's like someone posts something thinking, oh, like, I just want to do this. The next thing they know, it's, it's, it's just blown up. And it's like, well, did God just open up that door? Was that just the algorithm kind of thing? And it's like, what was that? And, and you see those things happen. But then yet you see the difference between what was it self-promotion or was it I just want to serve people. And as long as you can continue to keep reminding yourself on that, I think that's a really good thing to be able to discern between open doors from God, open doors from people. And then am I continuing? Have I walked through that door? Am I continuing in the right heart, in the right manner to want to serve people?

I think it's something all of us have to ask. Look, we have a personal relationship with Jesus. We know here. The Bible says, "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." That doesn't mean that makes you a son of God. What that means is the mature sons of God are led by the Spirit. Then he says how he leads us. The Spirit himself bears witness in our spirit. And I've gone to do things and in here it feels so right. And I know it's God saying, go on. Then I've thought of doing things and in here it just, there was scratching, there was gnawing, there wasn't any peace. 'Cause the Bible says, let the peace of Christ rule in your heart. And in the Amplified it says, like an umpire, an umpire makes a decision. I go, you know what? That doesn't feel right. In here as I pray about it, as I'm reading scripture, it doesn't feel right. So this is obviously not an open door. Yeah. So that— I believe that's how you recognize open doors from God, is that you pray, you listen to what the Holy Spirit's putting in here, and we stay in fellowship with him. Yeah. You know, the reason I don't want to get into flagrant willful sin is I don't want to lose the the fellowship that I have in here with him. Yeah. Do I miss it? Yeah. I mean, I had to apologize to your mother the other night because I got a little too Italian and a little too intense, right? She forgave me, thank you. But, you know, the next, next morning I really had to deal with that with, with the Holy Spirit. Yeah. I was like, Holy Spirit, that's your girl, that's your daughter. I was too harsh with her. Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to lose that fellowship with So if I'm in fellowship with him, I'll know in here something's not right here. I'm trying to promote myself. I'm trying to get out there. But, you know, sometimes I think people get so caught up in the institution of ministry, the formality of ministry, they forget about where it all starts. It starts in here. You know, I've been to so many— I've seen so many ministers. They're in ministry now and it's just formality.

Yeah.

Where do you think the fire comes from? It comes from staying in fellowship with him. This is what Jeremiah meant: is not his word in my heart like a fire shut up in my bones? It just burns. You touch me and it comes out, right? Yeah. That's the way we want to stay. We don't want to sit there and say, you know, I'll tell you this, if I start going out and I start trying to make things happen, you know what I notice? The fire in here starts drying up. Yeah.

I agree. Yeah, so good. I think that's a great indicator. I mean, I think it's always just— it's continuing the overflow. It's continuing to seek after the first, the kingdom of God, and then all these things will be given to you. And I love that.

Yes, that's our priority.

So looking at this church, obviously given the keys of David and going on for it.

All right, so let's continue. Look, I will force those who belong to Satan's synagogue, those liars, who say they are believers but are not. I'm putting believers in for Jews. To come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love because you have obeyed my command to persevere. So in other words, what does persevere mean? I'm going to obey God even when things are going totally wrong for me. I was on the phone yesterday for about 45 minutes ministering to a man who really, really has had a hiccup in his life. I mean, he, he did something really wrong. He was so repentant. And I said, look, you know, in order to gain trust back with the person that you really hurt, you're, you're going to have to realize that it may take time. Yeah. And I said, not only will that person test you, I said, you may not like what I'm about to say, God's going to test you. And he got really quiet. And I said, do you remember the Bible says that I said, the word of the Lord tested Joseph. I said, that's what I'm saying to you right now. I said, you know, God gives Joseph this promise. Your brothers will actually serve your leadership. You'll be a leader. They'll serve you. Yeah. He goes from pit to slavery to dungeon. And every time he obeys God, his life conditions get worse. And I said, it was 19 years before those brothers actually came before him. Yeah. And that vision was fulfilled. He persevered. The promise was made to him. Your brothers will serve you. 19 years is a long time. Mm-hmm. And it's a long, long time.

Yeah. It's a third of the word.

The Lord tested him.

Yeah.

In other words, when he obeyed God and he fled sexual immorality after 10 years of slavery, is he going to keep obeying God?

Yeah.

After 10 years of slavery, wouldn't it have been easy just to sleep with Potiphar's wife? He's not in fellowship, he's not in church, but he feared God. He adhered to the word of the Lord and he persevered and he obeyed God even when everything was going against him. And so this church is a church that was sorely tested, not only by people that were idol worshipers and had no relationship with Jesus Christ, but people who said they belonged to God, who had a covenant with God, yet were persecuting them. Yeah, he said, you've obeyed my command to persevere. Now listen, there's a reward for them. I will protect you from the great time of testing that is coming upon the whole world to test those who belong to the world. What do you believe that great time of testing is, Arden?

I mean, I think it's the tribulation.

I do too.

Yeah.

So he said, I will protect you. From. Now, did a little deep dive here. Actually, my producer helped— our producer helped me with this one. So the word protect is the Greek word tyrio, which it can mean I can keep you out of something, or I can keep you from something. So in other words, the way we would look at it is, am I going to protect you by taking you out of something Or am I going to protect you as something's going on, but you're still going to be in the midst of it? That's a good question. So one Bible commentary says this: The major question is whether Christ is promising deliverance from the great time of testing or keeping people safe through the great time of testing. One well-respected scholar— now I'm reading this straight from the commentary— holds that if this promise has any bearing on the question of pre-tribulation catching away of the church. What is said emphasizes deliverance from rather than deliverance through. So these experts are saying Jesus is saying, I'll deliver you from, not I'll deliver you through. In other words, I— he's not saying I'm going to protect you and you're going to be going through this tribulation, this great time of testing in the earth. I'm going to actually take you out of it. Yeah, this is another scripture, and there are so many scriptures, and I've got the book coming out March 3rd called The King Is Coming, where I give 6— actually 7, one of them is early church fathers— but I give 6 scriptural reasons of why I believe the New Testament teaches that the church, the people who really walk closely with God, are going to be taken out of the earth before the great tribulation.

So you're putting pre-trib in writing now?

I'm putting it in writing. I'm going that far because you know what? I realize it's so clear when you look at the tapestry of scriptures and you put it together. And, and I also have friends that I highly respect. These are great men and women of God, and they've been researching for years. And we all— I was talking with one of them one day and we just said, you know, John, I hid it, I avoided it for years, but he said, I can't do it anymore. And I remember when I was on the phone with him, I thought, I can't do it either. I've got to be honest with, with the people and tell them, if you walk in fellowship with Jesus, if you really pursue after him, pursue holiness, eagerly wait for his coming, I believe you're going to be removed from this earth before the Great— before the tribulation, the 7-year tribulation. All right, so Jesus said, I am coming soon hold on to what you have so no one will take away your crown. Now, I think about what John wrote in his other letter. So this is John writing this. Yeah, but this is Jesus's words. Could it be that John said in 2 John 8, he said, do not lose the things we've worked hard for, but see to it that you receive a full reward. Now, listen to the first part of that statement. Do not lose the things we've worked hard for. Maybe Jesus saying this to him on the island of Patmos spurred that on with him. Jesus is saying, hold on to what you have. I mean, why? What he's saying is, why do you want to walk with me for 30 years and then all of a sudden fall asleep like the church of Sardis, or become a lukewarm church like the church of Laodicea? Keep your fire burning until I return. If you look at the Gospel of Luke chapter 14, he said, let your lamps be burning and keep yourself girded with service, and you be like the servant who is waiting for his master's return. In other words, we keep that sense of urgency, that sense of serving, no matter how long it takes for him to return, no matter how delayed it feels like he is. Yeah, we're living today as if he's coming back today. We're planning as if he's not coming back for 200 years, and we're wanting to reach all the lost souls as possible in that 200 years, but we are living as if he's coming back today.

Yeah, which, can I even say, onto that, is that mindset of going back and saying, because you have kept the, you know, because you have continued to persevere. Um, I feel like they carried this authority because they were, number one, I mean, yes, they were a small, they had small power, small, a smaller church essentially, or few in numbers, but they carried an authority.

Why?

Because they persevered. I think there's almost that element to where you can kind of, what we haven't talked about, but there's the kind of neutral Christianity where it feels like You might be listening to this and saying, you know, I have not had to persevere. And maybe it's because I've been in a bubble, like I'm going to my church, I'm doing these things. And maybe it's like you need to get yourself into a position where you're saying, you know what, there's been lost people around me that I have not spoken the words of truth to, that I have not shared my faith with them. I have not shared my testimony with them. And I have gone to this point where I've actually gotten so much in a just like continual circle as I go to I go to my work. Yeah, I kind of go to my work, I'm quiet about my faith, and then I go to church and that's great. Then I go there and then it's just kind of— I'm going in this motion where it's like their perseverance hasn't even had a chance to take place in my life.

Paul made a statement, Arden. He said, those that live godly shall be persecuted. So the question is, are you living godly? Because if you live godly, you're going to really stand out.

And I'm not saying like looking for an opportunity to be persecuted.

Persecuted.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying is like maybe you have just kind of blended in so much with the world around you.

We're going to talk about—

Exactly. Just teasing it.

You're teasing right now.

But yeah, you blended in so much.

The one I'm probably one of the most passionate about, that and Sardis, because I feel like it really applies to today. But yes, if you want to avoid persecution, if you want to not persevere, just blend in.

Blend in, just continue, which is robbing you, I feel like is robbing you of the authority and the things that he's talking about here.

Okay, so I want you to restate what you just said. Because you have persevered.

Yes. He's saying, because you have persevered, I will also keep you from the hour of testing. So I mean, obviously going back, but then I'm still taking it up, going even back further is saying, behold, I am giving up those of the synagogues of Satan, those who say they will— they are Jews and are not, but lied. Like, I'm giving those to you. It's like there's all these things that are coming for this church, but he's highlighting because they persevered, there's even more things that are coming for them. But understanding what we might be missing out on because we've become— we've become coasting Christians, essentially, in that way.

So Jesus says, I'm coming soon.

Soon. Yeah.

Okay, he said it 3 times in this book of Revelation. I'm coming soon. What does that mean? We're supposed to have the attitude as if he's coming like today.

Yeah.

Okay, we're living like he's coming today. Hold on to what you have. So in other words, you can lose what you have so that no one takes away your crown. So when someone can take away your crown, how does this happen? Become like the Church of Sardis. You fall asleep. Now He's going to come like a thief. He doesn't say to Sardis, I'm going to take you out before the great testing that comes on the whole earth. He says to Sardis, I'm going to come like a thief. In other words, you won't know when I come. So here's a church that is promised to be taken out of the great time of testing, right? And here's another church that has said, I'm going to come like a thief. Mm-hmm. That tells me there are people who identify as Christians that will not be taken out. He'll come like a thief. And there are people that truly identify as Christians that truly walk in fellowship with Jesus, that truly are holding fast, are persevering. That I believe are going to be caught away. Now, is that mine to judge? No. Is that yours to judge? No. Is that any preacher's to judge? No. Only God knows. I wouldn't want— and let me just say this, you may be really upset at me saying this, but I want to ask you a question. If a train's leaving and you don't know when that train's departing, but I tell you sometime during that day that train is going to depart, and if you're not on it, you miss it. What are you going to do? Are you going to guess the time it's leaving? Are you going to say, well, I think it's leaving at 3 PM, and you just kind of come over to the train platform at 3 PM and find out it's gone? I'm going to tell you something. If I know that train's leaving and no time is given on when that train's leaving, I'm getting there at midnight at the beginning of that day, and I am staying there because I'm not going to miss that train. And that's the way we've got to be in the spirit. This church was persevering. This church decided to obey God no matter how much they went through. Sardis fell asleep. Sardis wasn't on the train platform. Sardis became too much like the world.

Can I even say, just because I have a funny story about that, is like, I mean, it's escaping this world essentially, which I love that image of like waiting on that train. I remember when I went to a country that I had just a very poor experience on and I was 10 days in that country is I was, I was flying back to get to this, the city where I was going to ultimately fly out of that country and get to get back to the United States, my connection to get back to the United States. And I remember calling you and I was like, Dad, I know exactly when my flight is. I said, but I so desperately do not want to oversleep. Do not want to miss that flight. I said, I am going to stay in the airport tonight. I was like, I just, I don't want to take any chance. I don't want to go to a hotel that's down the road and somehow miss my flight and have to stay another day here. Like, I'm gonna sleep in the airport. And you, you were like, very wisely said, no, I don't think it's a safe airport, so stay at that. But I just remember that feeling inside of me of just weathering and being there for so long and being like, I don't want to No chance do I want to miss my opportunity to leave this. I think about the world and the promises of eternity, and it's like that same thing. I mean, to an even greater degree, should we be that same way of, I, I know it's coming, I don't know the time, but you know what, I'm gonna be ready.

That's such a good example.

Yeah.

And I do remember that, and I remember as a dad, I was so upset. Yeah. I think you were, what, 21 years old? Yeah, I was so upset. Oh gosh, I will never forget that. And I remember I was on the phone with you and we got disconnected. My phone stopped working or something and I was like panicking in the sense of I've got to get in touch with my son. Yeah, he is in a— he is in a really dangerous place. He is in a really bad place right now. And I was so proud of you. I'm going to tell you this. I was so proud of you as a dad. I was like, my son's going to that country. I haven't even been to that country. And I knew the dangers. I knew the the darkness. I, I knew. And yet you went because you, you were so passionate. You had such a heart to minister to those people. Yeah. But boy, I was so upset, and I was like, get my Lord, get my son out of that nation. Yeah. I prayed like crazy for you.

No, but that's such a good example. How—

yeah, how badly I wanted to get out of there. We just, we are so easily lulled asleep. Yeah. Because it was very blatantly dark and obvious dark over there. But you know, Satan, here's a church that had martyrs. Here's a time period in which Christians were being torn from limb to limb by beasts. They were being crucified. They were being put locked in dungeons and the church got stronger. And I think the devil figured out, I think he and his hordes of hell figured out the way we can really really hurt a church is by making society embrace them and open their arms to them and even celebrate them. And I remember just one man from a persecuted nation just said, this is a hard country to serve God in because of what you have, because of your resources, because of your freedoms. And so here's a church. And let's just close with this. Jesus said, all who are victorious will become pillars in the temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. Can you imagine? Everybody in the universe is going to want to be in the house of God. David said, I just make me a doorkeeper in that house. So obviously we can't comprehend how magnificent it's going to be. And I write— and Jesus said, and I will write on them the name of my God and they will be citizens in that city. Can you imagine? Wow. The New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven, from my God. And I will also write on them my new name. Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches. I think it's so important that we have done these 7 churches and we have 1 left to go, and we're going to begin to tackle that one on the very next John Bevere podcast. Until next time. Arden, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for the examples you brought up. They were so powerful. And we love you guys so very, very much.