How to Create a Network of Physical Therapists for Personal Trainers

What's up Coach? In today's video, we're talking about how personal trainers can create relationships and build a network with physical therapists. Are you ready? Let's get started. What's up coach? I'm Beverly Simpson, owner of B. Simpson Fitness, the founder of the PT Profit formula and host of the PT Profit podcast. In today's video, this is going to be a replay of an interview that we did episode number 10 on the podcast where I had special guest physical therapist Paige McNarthy and we talked all about bridging the gap between physical therapists and personal trainers. So if you're a physical therapist or a personal trainer and you care about building out that network so that you can help your clients, which ultimately is going to lead to client success in terms of results, which will then just deepen that know like and trust and keep your clients coming back to you and renewing and growing and learning with you, then you're definitely going to want to stay tuned. If you like this video, chances are your friends will too. So be sure to hit like and if you haven't already hit, subscribe and ding that bell so that you could be notified when the next video is available. So without further ado, let's roll that interview. Hi Paige, thanks so much for joining us today. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. I'm a little nervous, but I'm good.

Let's just go ahead and dive right in. Can you share with me with us a little bit about who you are and who you help?

My name is Paige McNerthny. I am the owner and solo operator of Alignment and Physical Therapy, which is an outpatient orthopedic practice in Seattle, Washington. I have been a therapist in the Seattle area for 20 plus years. I started my career here in exercise physiology and sports medicine and then went to the University of Washington for my master's degree in physical therapy. Now I've been practicing for over 20 years as a therapist and my outreach has varied tremendously. In 20 years I've always been outpatient orthopedic based. I started off in kind of a private practice where I worked with a lot of middle school, high school and college age athletes. More sports medicine based. Then I spent 10 years in occupational medicine which was very similar to outpatient orthopedic but different in regards to I served a clientele that was probably 85% male in the trade industry down and kinda in the maritime area district of Seattle. And so I did that for 10 years and then in October of 2019 I broke out on my own and opened my own practice.

Yeah, okay, great.

Postural restoration, breathing mechanics, positioning, movement retraining specifically. And I've been doing that specific kind of line of work for about the last six years.

So yeah, I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about how you got there, what brought you to that type of work.

The kind of movement, breathing based work. So I have a single son and after I had my son in 2008, I had kind of pelvic and hip pain for years, on and off, like, and I was doing everything I knew to do, like fitness wise, exercising, weightlifting. It was actually ironically a Zumba class which I giggle about now, where I really drove that pain home. I battled that for several years, orthopedic assessments to orthopedic surgeons saying that I needed bilateral hip surgery. I was going to be non weight bearing for several months, wasn't going to be able to pick up my 3 year old son at the time. And I was like, that's not an option for me. A colleague of mine said, I really feel like you should check out postural restoration. I took my first PRI course for my own symptoms and pain management. I had taken, I can't tell you, Beverly, how many classes I had taken. Hundreds, right? Because this was 14 years into my career as a PT. I had done manual therapy through NIOMP, through several levels. I had done all sorts of Gary Gray movement and functional movement retraining courses. And I was utilizing this stuff on my patients, I was utilizing it on myself. And it helped some, right? Like it was kind of hit or miss. Some people worked better with some things, some people worked better with others. And then I took this posture restoration course and it was like, I look back on it now because I never knew how much it was literally going to change every aspect of my life from my professional career to my personal family, which is kind of a whole other story, but very dear to my heart and close to my son. But it was literally life changing for me. It was life changing for me personally for my pain. It was like every light bulb went off for the first time. That's amazing, right? Like, meaning you see movements, you see rotational patterns, you see pain patterns, you see biomechanical dysfunction in people. And a lot of times they're very similar, right? And all of a sudden I was in this course that was like explaining to me why I was seeing the things that I was seeing. And it was, I mean that was it. I mean, I can't explain it. It was like an epiphany for me as a professional. So, yeah. And that's where I've gone ever since.

So it's almost as if you were meant to have this pain so that you could find this and change other people's lives.

I am a firm believer in everything happens for a reason. My life has literally. When I think about all the gifts I've been given in my life, it always had to do with the time and place, the people I met. Everything that I feel like that has positively influenced me in my life has been based on those situations. I can go back for years right from my first job in Seattle and where it led me and who I met there and where that led me and how I got into this and how I got this position and where I went from there. And so, yeah, I mean, it's funny to think that you have to go through that kind of circumstance to get there, but there was a reason.

I agree.

I'm always have that pain anymore. So that's a good thing.

Now, you were a PT for 14 years, you said before you started going down this PRI path, right? So what led you to being a physical therapist?

Oh, my gosh, I wish I had some kind of brilliant answer for that. People ask me that all the time. I am serious. I have no idea. I was a terrible athlete, right? I have confessed this before. I loved athletics. I loved athletics and I did everything right. Like, I did volleyball, I did basketball, I did track. And I think that they only made a C team. Ab. A, B, A team, B team. I think they only made a C team for me, right? Like, I was a C team on volleyball. I was a C team on basketball. I ran the 800 in track. And I always say there was a girl, I went to school with some Susie Churchill. I have no idea where Susie Churchill is, but Susie Churchill and I used to trade off who would take last place. And I am forever grateful for her because I didn't have to take last place every time, right? Like, that was the gift. And so when I got into, you know, like high school sports and stuff like that, it was obvious that that was not going to be my skill set, but I still loved it. And a lot of my friends were really good athletes. And so, you know, I joke about the fact that then I went into cheerleading. I went into cheerleading so I could watch all football games, so I could watch all basketball games. And then I was a track and cross country manager because my best friend was an extraordinary runner and I never wanted to miss her runs and so it's funny. So I kind of, I loved that aspect. Outpatient orthopedic was always my thing. Like I spent time in skilled nursing when I was a new grad trying to make extra money right. On the weekends. And finally I was just like, don't ask me my contract. I was like, don't ask me to do that again. It just wasn't for me. Right. That field wasn't for me. I spent time in hospitals and it wasn't for me. But I don't have any like brilliant information as to why I went into it other than the fact that I love people. I loved helping people, I loved sports, I love touching people. I'm very physical. So this whole COVID 19 thing is killing me. And.

Yeah.

And so I just knew, I mean from 8, from 18 I went into the University of Kansas with a pre, you know, with a pre physical therapy degree. At the time the University of Kansas was a master's program for that. So I did my undergrad in. I double majored in exercise physiology and sports medicine. And then I came out here to UW and got my master's degree in PG and that was it. Loved it ever since.

Listen, you're in the right place because I laugh all the time because if my 6th grade PE teacher could see me now, he would not believe it. I don't. Like I was the kid in the back that walked the mile every Thursday or always had some reason why it run the mile. I was always trying to get out of Pete pe always that I became a trainer. He would not believe it. I think I would have to, I would have to work him out to prove it would be like there is no way that this, the most non athletic person on the planet became a trainer. But like you, I just became, I got really passionate about watching people transform their life and go from always feeling like they were miserable and feeling like they couldn't move and feeling like it wasn't, you know, that fitness wasn't for them. And then all of a sudden watching them transform their life, that was addictive. Like to me I just had to be part of that.

Yes. And I don't think, I think 80% of the skill of being any kind of customer service, Right. When you're in a service industry to help people is about your ability to relate to those people. Right. Empathize with those people. Everybody can read a textbook and learn and learn and learn. Right. But having people skills is a skill that is very difficult to learn. And when you're good at it. You're good at it. So I don't know. That's what I feel like I'm good at. And then I can. I can take up pieces and learn the rest along the way. You know.

What I'm really super excited about your work, specifically, and for this podcast, really, is that I feel like for all my years that I've spent as a trainer, that there tends to be a huge gap in terms of networking and relationship development between physical therapists or physiotherapists and personal trainers. And I know for me, and from my perspective, I know a lot of that comes from this feeling as a trainer that, you know, a lot of trainers try to, you know, work out a scope of practice, and they don't want to recommend a physical therapist because one of two reasons. Number one, they feel like they find so many pts, because I know this was true for me, that will say, oh, no, you can't. You can't be in fitness. You can't do strength training. You just have to, you know, roll on the ground and do these hip bridges. Or number two, they feel like that if they are recommending a physical therapist, it means something about them. It means that they can't help their client, which just isn't true. And I have seen in your work that you did this beautiful job of really bridging the gap between physical therapy and fitness. So I'd love for you to speak a little bit about clinician side and what the experience has been for you and maybe, you know, what are some of the things that happen on the PT side?

I think first I'm going to state that the only reason that I can be successful with that is thanks to trainers. So let's start it with that, because I think, and I'm going to get backlash for saying this maybe, right. But pts as a profession are kind of egotistical. We kind of tend to. I don't know if it's, you know, just kind of from, you know, every profession has their fights, right? To be recognized as professionals, right? And respected professionals. And in pt, there was a big drive for a long time about having direct access, right? Being able to, as movement specialists, to be able to, you know, evaluate and treat someone without necessarily having it come from a doctor's referral, right? So for me, one, my background was in exercise physiology and sports medicine, right? And so I was fortunate enough when I was coming out of my practice, two things. One, I utilize those skills in a physical therapy setting for three years prior to going back to grad school. Right. So I worked with physical therapists who trusted me, right? Once they were done with the rehab, whatever that form of rehab was, to then come out to me and have me guide them through the movement and recovery that was going to drive their success, right? To continue to hold on to whatever the therapist had done. And because of that, when I did become a pt, right then I went and pursued and got my CSCS certification, right? Trying to better understand this kind of the dynamic and the crossover world between the rehab world and then getting back into strength and, and conditioning for people. And so I did that as a new PT with another pt, probably really poorly at the time when I look back on it. But we all learn and grow. And then I went into occupational medicine and occupational medicine was just like outpatient orthopedics for rehab. But all of a sudden I was working with these, what you would consider industrial athletes in my opinion, right? These guys were thrown around 250 pound line, 24 hours a day, 16 hour shifts, working in the fisheries in Alaska, working in industrial rehab. And I was in this position where I was learning how to do all this movement and breathing, retraining. And then I had this clientele of people that needed to be able to open 250 pound ship doors and throw crab pots over. And all of a sudden I could not, I couldn't bring it together. I was like, I need help, right? And who better knows how to do this than a trainer? Trainers don't have, they don't do manual therapy and like little joint mobs and stuff like that, right? People come to trainers to get strong and get out of pain and learn how to move better, right? I was now 15 years into my practice and that CSCS thing that I did like 15 years ago, I was like, I don't remember how to do any of this stuff, right? Like I understand physiology and physics and the anatomy of the body and I knew how to do this, this positioning and breathing and understanding this stuff, but I didn't know how to incorporate that into movement so that I could teach people how to get back into their lives and manage and control those compressions and decompressions to their advantage, right? With big things, big movements, whether it be moving a shift door or squatting 250 pounds, right? Or doing a deadlift or whatever people wanted to do. And so, you know, that's part of the thing with pts is that you don't have to take, I don't know, how do I want to say this, Opening up my education to to other things outside of the PT world, right, Was literally the best decision I have ever made in the last five years, right? Looking at trainers who know how to take people, they can't touch them, right. Most of the time, there's a certain scope of line of practice, just like all of us have. And I started kind of researching networks of people, and now I'm surrounded by this tribe of people, right, That I don't know what I would do without them. Like, I have learned a vast amount of information.

Now, would you say that that's one of the things where a lot of physical therapists or physiotherapists miss the mark? Like the fact that you got a CSCS right at the beginning of your career. Is that something that a lot of physical therapists do as well?

No, no. And I think it. For me, in all honesty, I would like to say it was because I just had this innate desire, but I was literally working in a sports medicine clinic, and that PT made it a requirement. He said to me, you know, if you want to learn, right, as far as, like, training principles, this is one of the best things you can do. So, again, that's one of those gifts, right, that you meet people who do things for you and push your boundaries and make you experience these things that make you a better clinician, trainer, rehab professional or whatever. So, yeah, I think, you know, I've had conversations where. And let me tell you what, when I was in those CSCS classes, I did not. You know what I mean? I was like. I had no. Do you know what I mean? I was terrified to speak out, right? Because I was in this group of people. The majority of them were trainers. And here was this, like, nerdy old PT who didn't. You know what I mean? Who was a new grad who didn't have a clue what was going on. And then I have these conversations with these trainers now that are I depend on, right? Like, I reach out and say, hey, I've got this client. What are some things I can do to, you know, help them transition back into some of the things they want to do outside of the rehab world? And they tell me stories like that, where they sat in the same class as I did and didn't want to say anything because they were too embarrassed to be in a world of pts. And I just think it's crazy, right? Like, egos don't help anybody, right? Like, our ultimate goal is to help whoever that client is successfully return to whatever it is they need to do and whoever the hell can make that happen. That's the most important thing. So until that, until that boundary gets broken, right, and people let go of those egos and realize that we're all out for the same goal, right? And we can all help each other.

And I think for the trainer side as well, I think that the trainers also have, you know, they, you know, we have egos too, that we need to check and recognize that we're all just going after the same, after the same goal. And I think too, you know, to be fair to the clinicians out there, is that. And I might get backlash for saying that, but saying this. But not all trainers are created equal in terms of their level of care and passion for human body biomechanics. Like not everyone, you know, some people just, you know, aren't certified. They're just born with an awesome six pack and were athletes in high school and then think, I can train someone. Not recognizing that there's a whole science of training that, you know, matters to that point.

It's the same with pts, right? Or anybody in a service industry of health, right? And that's kind of, you can go off on a whole other tangent of like cookie cutter programs and like, you know what I mean? You know, are shoulder internal external rotation with tubing really going to be the best thing to do for a rotator cuff problem? Probably not. Right? But I guarantee you in way more settings than not, that's what happens, right? So I think that, that that's a huge problem just as an industry and some of that too. You know, again, like, there's all sorts of caveats and legs to this octopus that you could go out on about. You know, for me, another big part of it is as a physical therapist, a lot of my treatment right now is driven by insurance, right. And insurance limitations. And this is where trainers also come in, a big help for me, right? And everything I learned from them. Because what if someone only has six physical therapy visits and they have an ACL repair? What are you going to do? So in those six visits or maybe six weeks at the longest, right, I can try to get them to a certain point and then I can either educate them and what I think they need to do next, or I need a network of people where I can say, okay, now you can either continue to work with me for a period of time, right? Or you can go and here's a trainer that's going to be able to take you to the next level, right? And that's been hugely beneficial for me because, you know, benefits for People are so limited these days that, you know, sometimes I, that network of referral out to people is huge for me so that people can then get back into a rehab gym setting.

Well, and I'll say this too, for a lot of trainers, you know, as coming from the trainer side, having that network is so important. Especially for me when I was working with a lot of moms. And our healthcare system fails us in so many different, in so many ways. And one being the fact that there are these cookie, you know, you were talking about cookie cutter programs. But we also have these, you know, standardized rehab benchmarks. Like six weeks after, six weeks after birth, you're going to be good to go and just do whatever. I mean, I'll never forget now granted, my doctor, you know, she's operating from the best of her ability. My doctor came in and before she even did an internal exam, she's like, can go back running, swimming, jumping, whatever it is that you were doing, no problem. And I'm like, you haven't even examined me and you're clearing me for that because it's some art, very, you know, standard. I think what happens to a lot of trainers is we become the first line of defense because people think, oh, especially for moms, they think, oh, I'm fine, I've hit this, I've hit this mark. My doctor said I was fine and then don't even know that. Maybe they should go to a pelvic floor physical therapist don't even know that this, you know, haha, I'm three years postpartum and I'm still peeing in my pants. But that's normal, right? Scary mommy jokes about that. Recognize that these are signs. And I think trainers, there is a responsibility that we get to be, it's a gift that we get to be that first line of defense. And so when we can start recognizing and hearing things like that are red flags like that, like, you know, I'm leaking or I have low back pain that just won't go away no matter how many dead bugs I've done. That's a sign like, okay, I need to have this network. I need to reach out to my friend that I can refer them to, right? And it's important to have.

And I think if you, you know, there are people out there, right? I learned that, right? There are people out there that I can look to for help that I can be vulnerable with and be like, listen, this is where I'm at and I need help, right? Like, what's the next person? And I think when Those people allow me to become vulnerable. Then they're also. I hope that same respect happens back. Right. Like it is out there. It's just you have to seek it out. And the way you seek it out is opening up that educational piece, right? Like stepping, for me, stepping outside of just physical therapy, continuing education, right. And one of the benefits. And not that I could have. Not that I couldn't. And this is an error on my part, right. Not that I couldn't have used my own money to do that, right. But it really was like the last six years, even though my own practice is very new, right. That I. And again, I associate this to people I was with, the fortunate things that I feel like the people I've met, the people that I've come across where I could take my continuing education and use it to whatever I wanted, right. Like, just because this wasn't going to get me CEUs, it was approved by the American Physical Therapy association, right. That it wasn't going to be beneficial to me. I have taken hours upon hours of training. Probably the last 40 hours of training I've done has been from trainers. And I have learned so much about my own body, about my clients. I'm really open with my clients about this. Like, these are people that have educated me in my private practice. Now I tend to have. My client base really is people who are fitness enthusiasts, fitness professionals that, you know, are doing everything they do. This is a part of the world. They could be from, like weekend warriors, right? And just, you know, kind of everyday exercise people who are just trying general health. And I also have a lot of fitness professionals, you know, instructors, you know, and whatever, you know, barre three instructors or spin cycle instructors who have just kind of gotten, you know, caught in this pain cycle that they can't quite get out of. And so they come to me for that and I help them with that. And then this whole, you know, what I call my new tribe of people that I am so grateful for. And I can literally get emotional about it sometimes because that vulnerability to me was acceptance. Unconditional acceptance in this network of people that I have now met has been life change for me. And then I can take it and give it to these people who. That's what they want. You know, my common client is someone who already has fitness as a part of their everyday life and has just kind of, you know, got some. Some symptoms or pain or struggles they can't get past.

So you really prompted that, you know, you really prompted this conversation where, you know, you're talking about fitness enthusiasts or people who are, you know, essentially athletes that they are avid. They're not. Maybe they're. Maybe they're not in some specific sport, but they are avid people who work. They're avid worker outers, for a lack.

Of a better word.

Yeah, like, to work out. And I think what happens is that there's this whole component of the athlete brain is that we are like. That we are designed to kind of push through pain and just that it's supposed to be hard and that it's supposed to hurt. And that somehow if we just admit that there might be some kind of pain or something that might not seem normal, that it means something about our skill or our ability or our level of discipline or our level of ability to, you know, push through. And so I think that oftentimes.

We.

Don'T acknowledge or really work through the fact that we ourselves campaign.

Yes, that was the hardest part for me, even with my own transition into the posture restoration kind of track and breathing track, is that I just kept going more and more and more and more and more thinking that I just wasn't strong enough post baby. Like, I just had to keep pushing and just keep pushing. And I just had this conversation with a client yesterday on my table in my clinic, and she was just like, I need to feel it. I need to feel it strong. And I was like, girl, you feel everything strong. You need to dial it down, right? Like, you need to let your body rest and recover. So I think. And she is right, a spin cycle Instructor, literally a Barre3 instructor. She owns her own business. You know, there is this innate drive. And so, yeah, I mean, that's the interesting part too, about working with that client base is actually teaching them to actually, you know, regress and allow their body to rest and recover, to actually make them a stronger individual when they go do their professional or personal stuff that they love to do right now.

There is something that you said in your story, and also just from knowing you and knowing that the type of people that you work with is that.