How to Help Clients with Nutrition with Erin Murray | All About the Food

What's up, Coach? If you're interested in hearing about the art and science of all things food, this video is for you. Are you ready? Let's get started. What's up, Coach? I'm Beverly Simpson, the owner of Be Simpson Fitness and the founder of the PT profit, formula and podcast. And today we're rolling an interview that I did for the podcast with Erin Murray, who is an expert in both the biochemistry of food and behavior change and has a mastered the ability to capture the art and science of training and helping her clients take actionable steps that will ultimately lead to a sustainable lifetime change. So if you like this video, go ahead, hit like hit, subscribe, tap that bell to be notified when the next latest and greatest video comes out.

And.

And without further ado, let's roll that interview. Erin, hello. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

Thank you so much for having me. I'm well, thank you. How are you?

I'm doing so good. Honestly, I'm really excited. So for those of you I always say this every podcast, oh, this is.

Going to be such a good show.

But true. I really, it's a pleasure and a privilege to have you on the show. I'm really excited.

Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

So we were talking before we hit record like this, friends, this is going to be such a good episode. I'm really excited. So just to kick us off, can you go ahead and share with us.

Who you are, who you help and.

How you got there?

Good question. Kind of a long winded story, but I can do the Cliff Notes version if that's best. So basically, almost a decade ago, I discovered CrossFit and I became hooked. I was one of those people that totally drank the Kool Aid and I needed it. I was at a point in my life where I really needed it and I found strength I didn't know I had. I saw my body changing and then I naturally got very into the zone blocks and the performance based nutrition that the CrossFit community often emphasizes. And I just saw really huge changes in my life that were a component of kind of my origin story in this industry. And I fell in love and saw that you can change your life, you can change your body. And so I eventually got certification so I could start coaching clients. I had women who came to my barn at five in the morning and I taught classes there. There was bodyweight CrossFit. We did regular CrossFit, CrossFit at the gym. So I had all types of clients. And then I Also was someone who I had been into whole life. So another key component for me was that I just grew up in a family that did a lot of like farming and gardening and made everything at home. So mega foodie. I know some people hate that word, but I don't have another word because I'm not a chef. So I have to call myself just a foodie. And so for me, bringing those things together of I can manipulate things in my food, it can still be delicious and then I can train this way and things happen. I'm changing my inputs and I'm getting outputs, then I'm working with clients. And the biggest thing that kept coming up with people where they really get the most stuck is food based changes. So I started helping my clients with we would talk about things like macros and zone blocks and whatnot. So I had people in my life and I had people that I coached. But then I began my very formal journey in nutrition science. So I went into my graduate degree and I'm actually just finishing now my master's of science in nutrition research. We've got three classes left, we're almost there and my research is due. So very happy about that. And then my dpd, which stands for Didactic Program in Dietetics so that you can be a registered dietitian that can perform as a medical provider. Medical nutrition therapy. So I had people that I was coaching but then also had kind of academic life blooming at the same time, which was fascinating because as I'm learning science you often don't see it or have clients or patients of any kind. But I always kind of had a learning box for my what I was doing formally and academically and then bring it to my people. Can't do medical nutrition therapy until you're a registered dietitian, but just the nutrition science itself. So I always had a playground for what I was learning every day because I see my people before or after the gym. And just then that has bloomed for many years now and learned a lot along the way and realized that all those zone blocks and macronutrients were not helping my clients at all. And kind of really focusing on things like behavior change, change, psychology, neuroscience, any tool in the toolbox that helps me help people became a space that I just fell in love with. And then also as my formal education bloomed, also as someone who was in the wellness space, seeing the confusion and the misinformation and kind of how we're dealing with our clients or the public and seeing that those things don't always align. They're quite incongruous, and we're not always helping people as best we can. So then that became a passion of mine, and now I'm just here loving my nutrition science. My clients, I have all types of clients, mostly general population. I wouldn't say I specialize in performance nutrition. A lot of other things, though, I more so deal with and trying to help people filter out the crazy nutrition world that we live in.

That's amazing. So there's two things that you said that I want to bring, you know, I want to bring back, which I think is important, which I think is a component that's really missing in the strength and conditioning world, which is that we have all these. We have all this access to information, to education, which is so amazing. But there's that implementation component that I think often gets missed, which was really awesome for you, because you got to implement what you're learning at the same time, which I think so many people miss that, which is huge. The second question for you is I noticed that you had recognized and realized that you wanted to learn more about nutrition science, and you went down this very academic, high level lane versus some of the other things that are available, like precision nutrition certifications, things that are not quite as high level. Not that they're bad, by the way. I'm PN2. Love it.

Give me some PN. Yes. Not bad.

But I'm curious, as someone that had, like, a strength and conditioning background, what led you to say, no, I want to go. I want to be, you know, I want to go down this academic level?

Yeah. So kind of a mixed answer. And depending on what you want to chat about, we certainly can. So for me, in high school, I really struggled. I was. I had a lot of, like, personal problems in my high school years and did not thrive academically. However, my two strengths were writing and science. So I loved my science classes, and then I loved AP Humanities, AP Lang, AP English. That was my jam. I love those. But also really loved my science. But I was kind of such a dysregulated teenager that I didn't have the confidence to pursue science formally, even though I loved it. I remember specifically saying, I wish I could be a doctor. And my parents were like, why don't you be a doctor? And I was like, I can't do that. I'm not capable of that. I actually, for a long time insisted I wouldn't go to college, but. And I've been in college and grad school now for 10 years, so I was Full of baloney. And I really had to, like, reinvent myself to make this all happen. But for me, I did love the science because it always was interesting to me how much sense it could make when you saw the full story. And I don't know if that's my writer brain and my science brain coming together, because science is so much more of a story than people realize. And so then once I'm working with people, I'm seeing, they're saying these super interesting things about what's happening in their body. And what I know right now is that I don't know what's happening. And I don't like that very much. I really like to know what's happening. So I just do. I don't dig that at all when I'm like, oh, I don't. I don't know what that means. I hate that feeling. So I thought, okay, let's. I actually was terrified starting grad school because my undergrad was in writing, publishing and literature. So I did sciences for fun as electives. And then I looked at what I can do to keep working with my clients nutritionally. And I saw that I can't fully treat unless I'm a registered dietitian. So I knew I would have some limitations to my practice, which I didn't love. And then I knew there would be things that I didn't quite understand. I remember actually even opening up a study in PubMed. It was probably about six years ago now. And I remember saying to myself, I'm going to learn how to read this. Because I was looking at the study and I was like, I don't know what this is saying, and this is the worst feeling in the world. And it really was it bee in my bonnet. So then I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna half ass this. I'm just gonna whole ass this. If I'm going to do nutrition, I'm gonna be able to treat. I wanna reimburse for health insurance. I wanna be able to do whatever I wanna do. But more than anything, I wanna know the real story of the body. And then when you start studying science really academically, it is nothing short of a frying pan to the face. Especially when you feel like you've spent so much time with health science, and then you're in class and you're like, oh, my God, I did nothing. It's shocking. Oh, talk about humble pie. Oh my goodness. Every day you go and you sit and lecture. The more you learn, the less you know is what it feels like. And I also am addicted to that feeling now because I know what a joy it is to kind of uncover the story. So that's kind of a twofold way where just my little bee in my bonnet of I have to know I want to be able to treat completely, but then also loving my science life, just developing academic confidence as someone who wasn't a good student in high school. I mean, literally barely got through then having to kind of discipline myself. And that's why I left CrossFit. I exerted really, order on myself as an undergrad and came out with a very good GPA and then could apply to master's programs. But it took a while, so I also had to build the confidence to learn, which was hard for me.

So, I mean, this is amazing. And honestly, it brings me back to what we were talking about before we hit record, because we were talking a little bit about, you know, who you serve. And one of the things that we were mentioning was talking about how we tend, as trainers, as coaches, as clinicians, we tend to go into what's most personal. So what we struggled with or what we've come to the other side with, because either we've gotten the results that we wanted and. Or we've just spent the most time thinking about it. Right. And I hear that in your story. Like, I. And I was laughing because I make the most money in my life writing and doing fitness. And if my teachers and English teachers in high school knew that, they would not believe you, not that girl.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

You can reinvent yourself, especially intellectually, which is really awesome that we can do that as humans.

Yeah, absolutely. And you. One of the things, though, too, that you said that I want to highlight is that it took something from you. You had to look at your own behavior, your own identity, associations, and make that change, which is ultimately what's going to, you know, serve your clients and serve your coaches that want to learn from you, which I think is key.

Absolutely.

And people miss that.

Absolutely.

I think that's so. I think that's amazing. When do you finish?

I will be done in May with everything. Praise the Lord. I actually love being in school, so I say that very facetiously because I'm spoiled, because I don't have a lot of classes left, so I get to have some lecture time, and I'm conducting my own research, and then I get to see my clients. I actually have very spoiled day. I love it. I think I would just be in school forever if I could, and I.

Hope I can honestly this is the other thing too, that you said is that the more you know, the smarter you get. You realize you know nothing. And it's like we operate from this beginner's mindset, which is why I'm passionate about my work. Because it's always the people that are really at the top of their field that start to lack confidence because they realize there's so much more out there.

Yes. It's that Dunning Kruger effect.

Yes, exactly.

Which I talk about with fellow coaches a lot, which is at the beginning, if anyone doesn't know, it's this graph of confidence versus knowledge. And at the very beginning, you have, like, your neighbor Karen who read the Fat Flush and she'll tell you she understands nutrition science and her information is six months deep. And then you'll talk to a gut health researcher who's been in the field for 20 years. They're the first one to say something to you like, we don't know. I don't know how that works. We're not sure. We haven't seen that reproducible in studies. But then someone on Facebook is telling you exactly how that works. A gut health researcher who's been in the field for 20 years. They're the first one to say something to you like, we don't know. I don't know how that works. We're not sure. We haven't seen that reproducible in studies. But then someone on Facebook is telling you exactly how that works. It's so interesting.

Interesting. I did a podcast on Beginner's luck explained. Because beginners don't know that they don't know what they don't know. And they're 100% confident. And when you can present yourself, it's like, this is it. People will read that. Oh, yeah, that's an expert. That's an authority. Just because she decided she was an authority.

Right? Totally. Just say something loudly and with confidence and people might believe you.

It's law of duality. Right. To know the good, there's also the bad. It's the same thing with the Internet. Right. And Internet. So amazing. I've met some of my best friends on the Internet. And then at the same time, you know, Dr. WebMD is there for me.

Dr. Google. So reliable.

The best doctor I've ever had.

It's so funny. I know. It's in. And then in our space, it is really prominent, especially with food and fitness. It's really prominent in our life.

Yeah. So I'd love for you to share with us, like, what's the what's the number one thing that you're super passionate about? Really diving deep in with your coaches and also with your clients. Like, what is, what is it that you. I want to say specialized, but that's not the right word. But what is it that you are focusing your attention on right now?

Good question. Because I feel so split actually between different things. We live in such a wonderful world and we're so. Our bodies and our brains are so interesting. It's so hard not to get excited by everything. But one thing that I am definitely, if I were to encompass everything and put an umbrella over everything, I would definitely say regulation. And what I mean by that is our food culture is so dysregulated because it is so vulnerable and susceptible to kind of the most unhealthy food and feeding patterns, but also chronic dieting. And they're really symptoms of the same problem, which is that we're not insulated in our homes and in our bodies from healthy food culture, from solid information, from health promoting practices, from knowing how to listen to our bodies. You know, eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full, eat something delicious but also nutritious. We just don't have food culture and we're very disconnected from our bodies. So that diet culture, from health promoting practices, from knowing how to listen to our bodies, you know, eat when you're hungry, stop when you're hungry, full, eat something delicious but also nutritious. We just don't have food culture and we're very disconnected from our bodies. So that diet culture and that obesogenic environment are working at the same time, and both of them are in that obesogenic environment, are working at the same time, and both of them are pulling us away from our own body and the planet. So in everything, whether we're looking at gut health, if we're looking at behavior change, if we're looking at soil practices and food production, if we're looking at being good, pulling us away from our own body and the planet so under in everything, whether we're looking at gut health, if we're looking at behavior change, if we're looking at soil practices and food production, if we're looking at being good coaches and really making the world a better place, I think all of that falls under that umbrella of I'm working to help regulate this food culture and this body and this lifestyle so that it can thrive and be well connected.

That is so good. I mean, I'm really actually taken aback because I hadn't thought of it. And Then kind of like, oh, I can't remember the word that you specifically used, but that whole life of. Or that unhealthy lifestyle, they're basically the same. You said it's like the same symptoms, it's the same problems, but they live almost. You think of them as opposite sides of the spectrum.

Right, Right, exactly. They feel opposite and they're symptoms of the exact same problem.

That's mind blowing. I actually hadn't even thought of it like that before. So I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about what are some of the red flags that we could start paying attention to to recognize, you know, where we are on the spectrum, how and how we can get closer to getting more in tune with our bodies.

Yeah. So I think one of the first things that we all can always practice is really awareness. I think it's so easy to develop a food lifestyle that then we're very stuck in. Most of our food habits are inherited too, whether we want them or not. So we learn about food at a young age and we usually adopt what our community at home does. So we don't always have a conscious choice of what kind of relationship we want. So we usually end up mimicking like many other behaviors. And so I find my clients language really insightful and very interesting. And you got to work slowly to open up this door. But clients will talk about, my mom or my father was always on a diet and suffering from a weight problem. So I just started doing diets with them. And so then there's just this kind of sense of restricting and counting things and cutting things out and not really feeling the body, but more so trying to adhere to a program or it just. Just as frequent. I'll have other clients say, no one in my home cooked the other day. I had a client say, if you pulled out a frying pan in my house, people would stare at you and ask if company was coming over. So they just order out all the time. They get food delivered to the home. No one knows how to cook, so they're completely uncomfortable in the kitchen. And then I have other clients who will say, my family had a you must finish your plate lifestyle. All of us ate far past the points of hunger. We've all struggled with our weight our whole lives. And you know, some people joke, I haven't been hungry in 10 years because I eat so much. I never have a hunger pain. And so my clients will say something funny and kind of laugh at themselves. But it also is super insightful, like how has this culture shown up in this person's life. And awareness is always that first space of what am I eating and how do I feel? What do I need right now? When someone, the other day I had a post on Instagram that a lot of people messaged me about privately, which is always interesting. And the post was just healthy living is not about perfection, it's about options. And what I mean by that is, if someone says I just have to have wine or I just have to eat this, or I just have to start a stricter diet tomorrow, I don't love hearing the word have to do because that means they don't feel like they have a choice. So to me, my question then is, why does this body feel like this is what it has to do? Is there nothing else it can do? Is there's no other tool in this toolbox? And as much as I love food and I love to eat, there's some problems food just can't solve if we have an issue with our partner at home. Unfortunately, wine or food can't solve that. So what I rather have people do is really feel what they're feeling and start getting in tune, attune to themselves and reconnect and start building out that toolbox so that there's options. And then decide if you would like to have a glass of wine or a cookie or whatever it might be. But when something is I have to, I sense a feel of stuckness. And then we talk about where that stuckness is showing up and kind of explore, which truthfully can take months or years. Usually these things take decades to develop, so they're not going to change overnight. But feeling oneself and figuring out what's showing up, where's this coming from and how do I cope with it and then seeing where we land on that spectrum or even things like mindless eating, eating through work, never cooking at home, ordering out. And then what is our voice saying about those behaviors? Oh, I just don't know how to cook. Oh, I'm just not comfortable. I don't want to take quiet time. I just have to work. All these things show up in really interesting ways in our culture, which is so fast paced and doesn't really have a wholesome food component.

I think that that that's incredible insight too. And I also think that for personal trainers, specifically, because I've just been a strength and conditioning coach for so long, I feel like I hear that half the time, all the time. Like they'll have these preconceived notions, just have to get a six pack and then I'll get clients or I have to look a certain way in order to be considered a trainer. And I think too that, you know, trainers have been so conditioned and used to supplementation bars, all these things that are not actually, you know, micronutrient dense, that they are also custom to, to the hustle and bustle lifestyle, working morning to night. And I feel like they often fall into this category where they should either know better or maybe they do know better. And I'll just speak for me specifically, I've asked myself a million times, I know better, why don't I do better? You know, so I'm curious, like, and also too, in your aunt, you said that, you know, people DM'd you. And I think too that people forget that what's most personal is often most just general, that they have these. They think, oh, I don't want anyone to know that. Not recognizing that other people are going through the exact same thing. So I'm curious, like, have you worked with coaches or any, you know, trainers, clinicians that have felt like, I'm a client, I should do better, I have to better.

Absolutely. And this is something we talk about too in dietetics. Often that's where like some imposter syndrome can show up, you know, if we feel like we don't look a certain way or we can't do the things we want our clients to do at certain periods. And strength coaches deal with this all the time. At such a good point. I definitely have had a lot of strength coaches reach out and they're so interesting because their brain is thinking, I just need to be more disciplined. What should my macros be? I'll start weighing and measuring my food and I'll say something to them like, well, how do you feel in your body? And then they're like, don't ask me that. Or, well, what do you need? And they're like, I have no idea.

I've asked myself a million times, I know better. Why don't I do better? You know, so I'm curious, like, and also too, in your.

I've never asked myself that question. So I think sometimes I scare people a little bit because I'm.

You said that, you know, people DM'd you. And I think too that people forget that what's most personal is often most just general, that they have these.

I'm trying to make them think, you know what, just measuring my macros when I'm already this over tax stressed out. Most of these coaches have children and partners and with COVID too. We're working, we've got Zoom clients, then we're going into the city to the gym, and then we're doing home visits. And, like, the last thing you need is to start weighing out your chicken breasts. I just don't think that that's really the problem. So I like to little deeper. I mean, weighing and measuring has its place, but just often there's lower hanging fruit that's easier and more pleasant if we can tweak it. And then I like to make food a resource, not yet another tax. So sometimes in that regard I have to push back and say, I'm not just going to give you macros. And people don't always love that, but that's something I've learned in my practice over the years. I can't just give meal plans and macros. No one does them anyways. So that's a big challenge, though, for our industry. Imposter syndrome or not feeling perfect, not feeling like we look a certain way and then thinking we're not worthy of having clients and learning to take really good care of yourself. If you're a coach who's feeling this way and experiencing your own behavior change and getting good at thinking about these things from above, bringing it home, think.

Oh, I don't want anyone to know that. Not recognizing that's totally. Other people are going through the exact same thing.

Right.

So I'm curious, like, have you worked with coaches or any, you know, you know, trainers, clinicians that have felt like, I'm a client, I'm. I should do better, I have to.

Better to your own life and then talking about it with your clients. You'd be shocked at how comforting, relatable, and professional that seems to clients.

I love that, you know, and it's also interesting, too, is because I've also worked with people that have the reverse. You know, I'll speak for me, and I'm fully transparent. I had that feeling all the time. Like, especially when I was, you know, postpartum.

Right.

I, you know, my story is that I, during the fourth trimester, I got the 200 pounds and then couldn't walk up the stairs. And I was a strength and conditioning coach, you know, and so you had that feeling of like, oh, I'm not gonna get. I'm never. I'm not worthy. Exactly. Like you were saying. But then on the flip side, you've got the people that are like, nobody. Really?

Absolutely. And this is something we talk about too, in dietetics often. That's what it's. To me.

They don't want to be my client because they're too intimidated by how I look and I have to shrink.

Like some imposter syndrome can show up, you know, if we feel like we don't look a certain way or be.

Smaller, hide how I look. So it's very interesting that people have.

We can't do the things we'd want our clients to do at certain periods. And strength coaches deal with this, especially in this field.

You know, body. Your body is not a business card.

Right. All the time. It's such a good point. I definitely have had a lot of strength coaches reach out, and that's so right. And I definitely have found with clients in general and just being in the industry, you do see eventually it takes time to tease out sometimes, but just those coaches who care and are passionate and you don't have to be perfect. And it's also not bad to have a chiseled body. It's going to be about what's between your ears and what comes out of your mouth and really how you make someone feel and finding your rhythm for what's appropriate for your coaching practice or what you feel comfortable talking about, and then maybe having connections that you refer out to to help manage things you're not comfortable or passionate about, I think can just serve coaches so well.

I love that. It's so good. And I also think too, you know, we were talking about this earlier as well, is that you don't have to have it all figured out. You're always going to be learning.

They're so interesting because their brain is thinking, I just need to be more disciplined. What should my macros be? I'll start weighing and measuring my food. And I'll say something to them like.

Learning things are always going to be changing. You don't have. You don't have to just arrive at this moment like, okay, I know everything. Now I can.

Right, well, how do you feel in your body? And then they're like, don't ask me that. Or, well, what do you need? And they're like, I have no idea.

You learn when rubber meets the road.

Absolutely, yeah.

Nobody learns how to swim by reading a book on swimming. They get in the water, right?

And I think it's okay to. I joke with myself when I'm creating things because I'm a perfectionist. I'll think, oh, is this quite right? But I say to myself, and I say to my coaches who are in my mentorship at this time next year, I hope you look back on your work and think it's terrible. Yes, that does. Don't blush and don't get ashamed. That means you learned something. So just keep focusing on that process and don't get discouraged about being perfect or knowing it all, because you really should never have an end date. I've never myself that question, so I think sometimes I scare people a little bit because I'm trying to make them think, you know what, just measuring my macros when I'm already this over taxed, stressed out. Most of these coaches have choked. Oh, now I know everything. Now I can start. Means you stop learning. So that's more what I would be afraid of than making an error.

Yes. I love that. That's so true. So, you know, you also mentioned this earlier too, and it's kind of a little bit of a segue, but you, you were talking almost about how you.

Love to decipher puzzles and partners. And you know, with COVID too, we're working. We've got Zoom clients.

You didn't say those words. That was my interpretation.

Yeah.

Like to know and you want to, like, figure out. So when you get something, when someone comes to you and says, you know, I've been doing all the right things and it's not working, you know, I can just feel and know that you're like, all right, we're going to break this down. We're going to figure this out. And so I know in your. In your content, you've been really starting to gear some stuff about gut health. So I'm curious specifically because I feel like it's a lot of commute, really confusing information about, like, what leaky gut is, what's wrong? Like, it's not right. It's not. It's wrong. And in truth, I'm speaking specifically about leaky gut, but I think that's nutrition across the board. It's so information overload.

Totally.

So how do you not, like, how do you navigate this kind of stuff for your clients and your coaches?

Good question. So the gut space is very interesting. And as you mentioned, I totally agree. Nutrition in general, there's more going on here than feels comfortable. Then we're going into the city to the gym, and then we're doing home visits. And like, the last thing, because there really is so much and there's a reason why, like, in school, you need us to start weighing out your chicken breasts. I just don't think that that's really the problem. Well, the course load is what it is. Or the research, reading courses, the microbiology, the nutrient metabolism, anatomy and physiology. One and Two and going in and taking tests and, and lab tests on corpses and organs and things like that. Because, man, these are complex sciences. So that's something I just embrace because they're so cool and I just do happen to love that. Sorry. There's a really bright light shining on me. Ah. Oh, my gosh. Let me close this window. Sorry. I don't want you to not see my face. So with the gut health space, there's. What we really have to do is put on our microbiology hats because the gut is what makes us a superorganism. So we have 100 trillion or so bacterial cells housed in the colon. So for those who are thinking, okay, where is that? We know that we have microbiomes around our whole body. So we do house bacteria. There's certain bacteria in the mouth, there's bacterias on the acid mantles in the skin that are suitable for that ph. There's going. They're all over the place. The urogenital tract and then of course the gi. So I like to dig a little deeper. I mean, weighing and measuring has its place, but just often there's lower hanging fruit that's easier and more pleasant. So the GI tract starts in the mouth and it really is a funnel for the outside world. So we have, we have the mouth all through the esophagus into the stomach, then into the small intestine, then into the large intestine, which is the colon. And everything is going to move through there for excretion. So the colon is really where we see the largest component of our microbes. And then so in there, if we say the word microbiota, those are the species that are populating the colon. And then the word microbiome refers to the species that are in there, plus all their metabolites and everything that they excrete and produce. So when we look to the gut, we have to not only think of nutrition and all of our nutrient metabolism, anatomy and physiology and a lot of biochemistry. When we start talking about the gut, we are very much talking about if we can tweak it. And then I like to make food a resource not yet out individual molecules, how they're transported across different barriers than other tax. So sometimes in that regard I have to push back and phs that they can be used or enzymatically worked upon in. And then when we're talking about bacteria, where we're incorporating that biochemistry with microbiology to really look at what species are here, how do they behave, what substrates do they ferment, then what do they secrete, how do they communicate? And then how is that affecting the host? And then we have to go back to human physiology and look at then what's happening there. So it is a tremendously complex science. So if it does feel confusing, it's definitely because it is. It's not just you, I promise. So if you're a coach who's interested in the gut, it is a big space.

And so I'm curious, just real quick, like for your breakdown and the way that you were speaking about it, is it individually unique for each different person?

Very much so. So super interesting. So we already know this is complicated, right? We're already thinking, so if so a couple things about the gut just to keep your eyeball on. If you hear the words such as good versus bad right there, that's a red flag. If someone's saying that, because we don't know who's going to be good, say, I'm not just going to give you macros. And people don't always love that. But that's something I've learned in my practice over the years. I can't just give meal plans and macros. No one or bad for which person most of the time. There's of course, pathogens. If you've ever had food poisoning, you certainly have experienced a pathogen. We don't think those are friendly. But when we start really looking at what's going on in the gut individually, it's going to be totally unique to the host. And we already know that that signature, that colonization is really the story of that individual's lifetime. So vaginal births versus C sections, breastfed versus no breastfed, pets in the house versus no pets, soil exposures versus no soil exposures. And then what the diet is, all of those things, antibiotic use or not growing up on a farm or not all that's going to affect who colonizes that individual. And then what we now know to make this even more confusing for those who are interested, we're now finding when we look at them anyways. So that's a big challenge though, for our industry. Imposter syndrome or not feeling perfect, not feeling like we look a certain way and then thinking we're not the signature of the microbiome in each individual, even when they have similar speciation. We can then sequence the genome of each species that's in each person. And we've done this in some pretty big studies and we see that the bacterial phenotypes are different depending upon the host. So when I say genotype, I mean what's in a genome. And when I say phenotype, I mean what's the physical presentation of that genome? So the phenotype of the same species is going to be different depending on what human they're in. So it's as unique as a fingerprint.

That's. That's amazing. But also terrifying.

It is terrifying. Bacteria are. If you think viruses are scary with COVID right now, wait till the bacteria is coming for us. That's when we're in trouble. They're interesting. Yeah.

I mean, it's just. You just go to the Internet, we go to our friend Dr. Google and Dr. Google told me that, you know, I need to take care of my gut. So I'm just going to cut out.

All the dairy, right?

I'm going to cut out all the. I'm going to cut out dairy and cut out grains because I'm over 30.

Not worthy of having clients and learning to take really good care of yourself if you're a coach who's feeling this way and experiencing your own behavior change.

And that's what they told me.

Right.

You know, I mean, honestly, I am, I am interested in that stuff and I think about it all the time. I'm like, oh wait, I'm 38, I need to cut out dairy. And I'll check myself. Like, come on, Beverly, get it together.

Which is interesting. That's totally the mode. When we see these kind of gut health accounts on social media, it's always kind of. It might be strict vegan, it might be strict paleo, taking out certain groups which may have its space or place depending on the person. But then for example, when we look at meta analysis of dairy consumption and then we look at major inflammatory markers, we actually see inflammation going down. So it depends. Yeah. Our meta analyses tend to show change and getting good at thinking about these things from above. Bringing at home dairy as quite anti inflammatory.

No way. Really?

Yeah. Which is very interesting. And for those wondering, a meta analysis is basically when I take many to your own life and then talking about it with your clients, you'd be shocked at how comforting studies and not just review all of them in one paper, but I run special statistical analyses combining all results and then I get a sense for what are they showing overall if I combine them in my spss, which is our statistical analysis software. And then so meta analyses can be really helpful for really showing us statistically what many studies are finding.

That's amazing. So I'm going to ask you a question and people on my podcast, I love you, but this Is totally selfish.

Lay it on me as relatable and professional. That seems to clients.

I love that question is what's been interesting for me and the reason. What. What kind of piqued my interest about. You know, and it's also interesting, too, is because I've also worked with people that have the reverse. You know, this is because I'm a mom, and I've got adopt two daughters, and one daughter, Gwendolyn, really suffers. Like, we have really, like, we have suffered. You know, she's suffered in terms of her. She was allergic to dairy and eggs, and she's still allergic to eggs. And it was just interesting for me to look at it. You know, she has eczema. And so this was you here. And what I know from my base knowledge is, okay, we've got to take a look at the gut. We got to look at her gut and what's happening and how she's digesting. And both my children, they struggle to breastfeed. We had, like, Abby, my youngest, was colic, so we. I'll. I'll speak for me. And I'm fully transparent. I had that feeling all the time. Like. And they were both cesarean births, so their flora was different. So we had some things that, you know, were just challenges or just, you know, they were challenging, especially when I was, you know, postpartum.

Right.

I. You know, my story is. And so the re. What I had recognized with dairy for Gwen, there is nothing that packs a better protein punch than dairy. And I have looked high and low for it for a child because, you know, you get nothing. And what I really needed for her was protein for. Her hair wasn't coming in. She was suffering, you know, and it was so interesting because I had a lot of gut health. People being like, no, don't give her dairy. She's got, you know, she's got eczema. She don't give her dairy. And I was like, well, where am I gonna get this protein? She's not gonna eat pea protein powder. Believe me. I tried it.

Eight chicken breasts a day.

I can't grind this. Like, I mean, boiling chicken and blending it was, you know, pretty gross. I'm not gonna lie to you. Right? So it was just very interesting to me because I would literally lie awake and ask myself, like, how am I gonna get protein into my kid that can't eat dairy?

Right? Yeah. That's a huge. It is a very useful food that I.

During the fourth trimester, I got to 200 pounds and then couldn't walk up the stairs And I was a strength and conditioning coach, you know, and so.

It has a lot of benefits if we metabolize it. Well, so. Absolutely. Especially for a little one. Things like yogurts and cottage cheese and all that. Regular cheese is such an easy way to get a nutritious food in. But if the tolerance is low. Did she take some allergy tests? Like, did you have casein whey or like, alpha lactalba and tested.

Or was casein. So. And that was the other thing that was. You know, you think. People think, oh, you're allergic to dairy when. And they automatically go to the sugar and think it's the lactose. But it wasn't for her. It was the protein, the casein.

Right. Which is important to note because lactose is an enzymatic issue. It's not.

You had that feeling of like, oh, I'm not gonna get. I'm never. I'm not worthy. Exactly. Like you were saying. But then on the flip side, you've got the people that are like, nobody really.

An allergy, which people confuse. It's not immunoglobulin mediated. It's. I'm not producing enough lactase, which is an enzyme issue. So I'm getting uncomfortable because these big sugar molecules just aren't getting broken down. But an allergy is. I'm mounting an immune response on this protein because it is a foreign antigen and I'm going to attack it.

Oh, that's amazing. I didn't. I didn't know that. I just knew that it was like a specific. But she did outgrow it.

Oh, okay. Awesome words to me.

They don't want to be my client because they're too intimidated by how I look. And I have to shrink. Okay. On the casing, but not on the eggs.

Okay. Right.

And so they'll be smaller, hide how I look. So it's very interesting that people have. The whole reason why I was bringing that up, you know, not to segue, is that it's just I always was looking, you know, I was looking at how I ate and how did I influence her response? And asking myself. I think a lot of people ask themselves, like, what came first, the chicken or the egg? So I was asking myself, like, is this something that I've somehow influenced? Can I help it? Or is this something that she's born with?

Right.

And so I think it's one of those questions that no one really knows. They think they know. Right. Or we've got a lot of research that can back it up, but we're just not sure yet.

Right. And I know parents always immediately blame themselves, like, what did I do?

But especially in this field, you know, body, your body is not a business card.

Right. It's so hard. And then the guilt, there's terrible guilt. So definitely don't blame yourself. These things are so complicated. An immune system is so complicated. Its job is to determine self and non self and then decide how to handle the non selves and then even build tolerance to non selves and say, oh, that's so right. And I definitely have found with clients in general, okay, you're safe, I'll let you in. No problem. But then also be able to determine who's dangerous and who's not. And sometimes in little ones and then adults too, but really in a little one, that immune system is developing over time because we think for the most part, babies are sterile in the womb. So a lot's going on in those early years where all that's developing and it's extraordinarily complex system. So don't blame yourself. That is true.

But, you know, and then on top of it, too, speaking to my parents out there, who can really feel me on this one, is that, you know, for kids specifically, food is the first thing, one of the first things that they recognize they can control. You know, and so then you as a parent are battling a whole bunch of things when it comes to food because you're navigating personality.

It's.

Is this a technical.

And just being in the industry, you do see, eventually it takes your thing.

Is this real or is this, you know, or is this. They're just trying to.

It's time to tease out sometimes. But just those coaches who, who care control it.

I'm thinking of my youngest, Abigail, who's like, you're not the boss of me.

Yeah, totally. Those are really challenging years. Getting a diverse diet into a little one. It can be really hard.

And it's interesting, you know, you brought it up and made me think of it because you were talking about how a lot of our habits are and.

Are passionate and you don't have to be perfect. And it's also formed in our, you.

Know, when we're eight, it was Aristotle who said, give me the boy until.

He'S not bad to have a chiseled body. It's going to be about what's between your ears.

Seven and I'll show you the mask.

Yeah, exactly. It's so true. And then we have these funny experiences or we model something and then we just don't even realize until we're older and we think, oh my God, I'm just like, you know, mom or dad or whatever it was. And it really happens kind of so organically and by accident.

So it is so interesting. And also, you know, what I too love about your work.

Right.

Which is going to bring us full circle here, is that you really take the art of the science and when you're really talking about, you know, the behavioral change and in order to really get that right, it is science based. But there is an art to really doing that. So I'm curious, you know, for you and for your coaches that you've worked with, have you worked with those people? My husband comes to mind. Love you, honey. Have.

They're just so rude and what comes out of your mouth and really how you make someone feel and finding in.

Their behavior they're already aware that they know that this is not serving them.

Your rhythm for what's appropriate for your coaching practice or what you feel comfortable.

Talking about not serving their highest health but refuse to change or feeling like it's impossible to change.

Yeah, great question. So that's where we would look at that place of first. We definitely need someone to be ready, willing and able, ideally. So someone who's like, I literally don't want to change nutrition lady, get out of my life probably isn't going to wind up on my doorstep. And I know there's many people in that space and I totally get it. Or you have people who feel ready, willing and able but extraordinarily stuck. And that's where people have to bring it way, way down. They have to boil the habit down so much more than what they imag. And I talk about that with my clients in terms of I feel out and then maybe having connections that you refer out to to help manage things. You're not comfortable strongly and kind of see this all the time. That at the core of every behavioral or passionate about, I think can just serve coaches so well behavior, every action is we have the action itself. We have the process that leads to the action. And at the nucleus of that is the belief about who I am. So there's really identity process action. And so we got to go into the identity. And I talk about this with my clients a lot. I have to kind of be getting to know them to really start catching on to things that are happening. But people will give you clues about how they really view themselves and how they feel about themselves. And for example, I had a client recently who has such a difficult time stating a need that she has that she does not feel comfortable saying to someone, oh, I. I love that.

It's so good. And I also think too, you know, we were talking about this earlier as well, is that you don't have to have it all figured out. You're always going to be learning.

Would rather get the salad than the fries, but thank you. Like, she literally can't say that to someone, even if she really needs something. She's an Obliger major, like, wonderful human being. This is why everyone loves her. But she's so accommodating that her own needs don't come first. And she identifies as someone who will do whatever kind of anyone else wants. She's very flexible. And she doesn't identify as a healthy eater. So she feels silly saying to someone, no, thank you, I'd like the salad. Because she's like, I'm not. I don't look like. I eat salads. And I thought, hmm, okay. And that makes so much sense because you. I think of identity as like, a jacket that we're wearing all the time. And it's. If I just have this red jacket on all the time of whatever it might be. I'm someone who can't cook. I'm someone who can't speak up for myself. I'm so. I'm not a healthy eater. I've always been an overeater or an unhealthy eater. I love fast food or so many people say I'm addicted.

Things are always going to be changing. You don't have. You don't just arrive at this moment like, okay, I know everything now.

I can right into sugar. It's literally an identity. I'm sugar addict. I'm a caffeine addict, whatever it might be. And they're. They're wearing that all the time. So I talk to my clients about, like, what jacket are you wearing? How are you identifying? How's this showing up? How's this guiding a behavior? Because at the core of every action is going to be that sense of. Of self. So the action makes sense because it's kind of coinciding with our norms. And then if we go to do something new, it's a norm violation because I'm doing something as a person. I don't identify as. This makes no sense to my brain right now. So I also try to talk to people about how we can think of this in our.

You learn when rubber meets the road.

No, absolutely brains. Because we do have to be patient with ourselves because this is so new.

And nobody learns how to swim by reading a Book on swimming.

They get in the water, right, with a learning process. I'm always thinking about dopamine, right? Dopamine is Mother Nature's carrot. It's the molecule that made us come down from the trees and start foraging and looking and looking for more as a species. So it keeps us going, it can get us excited, it can get us motivated. It's this little drip of reward. But we can't access dopamine until we get through kind of a gate of agitation. So when we're learning something new, for example, we might feel a little agitated at the beginning or overwhelmed. Like if we're going to learn a new language, for example, or science, and we might release some norepinephrine and it makes us agitated, it makes us feel antsy, it might make us feel short tempered or impatient. But if we. And I think it's okay to. I joke with myself when I'm creating things because I'm a perfectionist, I'll think, oh, is this quite right? But I say to myself, and I say to stay steady and deal with. I mean, literally, you're here, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. That's what this is.

That's literally the mind.

Totally.

Because it's. And I always say that it's brain based and you're just making it sound, you know, really breaking out, like what's hormonally happening. But it is the brain will send that urgency that says, hey, trying to protect you. It comes from lizard brain. That's like, no, no, that's not who we are. Because you're 100% habitual.

We are 100% habitual, totally. So you get that norepinephrine, you feel terrible, you're very agitated, very annoyed. But norepinephrine is your gate into dopamine. So you gotta go through the agitative state. And my coaches who are in my mentorship at this time next year, I hope you look that you're going to start getting little rewards. Like, I can think of so many times where I'm learning something new and I just. Oh, my gosh. Sometimes you just want to slam your book, right? Or I can't write this. I don't know how to explain this. I don't. I feel like I couldn't answer questions on this. Or when we're doing something new and we're at the gym. How many coaches out there know this feeling in their clients? They go to the gym and back on your work and think it's terrible. That does. Don't blush and don't get ashamed. They're like, I don't know what any of these machines are. I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do. This is horrible. And I'm leaving. But then how many people get hooked on their fitness? Then they start identifying as someone with biceps. And someone who identifies as someone who has biceps doesn't miss arm day because the dopamine is like, now, this is who we are. This is my identity. And then they just get rolling and the activity becomes very easy for them. Often not always easy, but usually pretty easy. And then you have a habit.

And that is so amazing too, that you say this, because I also say that people always quit when they're three feet from gold.

Yeah. That means you learn something. So just keep focusing on that process and don't get absolutely.

Almost there. You know, and my mentor James says, you know, you're gonna have your biggest breakdown right before your breakthrough. That is the science. That's why.

Yeah. Absolutely discouraged about being perfect or knowing it all, because you really should never have an end date. Our brain doesn't love doing something new. It doesn't like norm violations. That's why people get offended, Right. If I tell someone, oh. Which I don't. I've learned not to do this, but if someone states how something works nutritionally, and I'm thinking, holy crap, where did you hear that? I don't say a word, you know, because if I did, their brain would be like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Threat, threat, threat, threat, threat. That's a norm violation. This is how the world works. This crazy woman is challenging my. My whole life because my brain is saying it's. It's panicking because it's saying, well, what I thought was wrong. And that's the scariest thing a human being can feel. Right. Like, my brain didn't estimate that properly or didn't understand properly. And what a terrible feeling is that. So we run like hell from those things. That's why we don't like doing things we're not good at too. And so there's really is these neurotransmitters behind this chemical story in the brain. So I also joke with clients about things like that. Getting through the gate, doing something new, the jacket they're wearing, the sense of self explanation. Oh, now I know everything. Now I can start. Means you stopped learning. So that's more what I would be afraid of than making an error.

Yes. I love that. That's so.

And really just nudging that along way slower than you think. You should. Most people are like, that won't add up to anything. And I'm like, no, seriously, just take the multivitamin. That's, you know, that's their first piece of homework. And they're like, okay. They don't think that's exciting at all. And then, you know, eight weeks passed and now they're doing something with lunch. They're getting 10,000 steps per day, the multivitamin is still going strong, and their identity is slowly shifting. And then I'm thinking, okay, we're in a good place. We'll be fine. Once I start seeing those identity shifts, I get really excited.

Honestly, I could talk to you about this for like 12 years.

It's so fun, this call for like 10 years.

But I want to be mindful of your time. And so I'm going to ask you just one last question or 2 to 1.5.

No problem. I'm good. True.

So, you know, you also mentioned this earlier too, and it's kind of a little bit of a segue, but you were talking almost about how you love to decipher puzzles. Things you said too. Right. Which is why I have such a qualm against diet. Culture is speaking of habits and identity is that people get into this belief, then they've associated it based on evidence that they've gotten right. They. They believe that these small actions that have a compound effect on your identity and your habits aren't worth it. And that's because diet cultures told us all or nothing. Six days a week, cut out dairy, cut out ba da da ba. Right. And there's a reason why that stuff works. It's because they have evidence and people see evidence that it worked for short term. But these are all short term band aids. They don't ever go for the root cause. So I get why people, they're inundated with this, like, it has to be all or nothing, not ready. It's hurting them. Right. Which is so hard. Which is kind of. You didn't say those words. That was my interpretation.

Yeah.

Like to know and you want to like figure out. So when you get something, when someone comes to you and says, you know. Leading me to this question, which is how have you been able to speak to your coaches and also to your clients about this woo thing? I'll call it woo because I live for it. Everything I used to believe or still believe, and this is from a business sense too, is that, you know, you get who you are and you and your habits come from who you are. And you have to Go for that root cause and change yourself on an identity level first. People don't want to hear that. They don't want. They're like, no, just give me the meal plan. No, you have to take the actions of a healthy person. Like, you have to already, I've been doing all the right things and it's not working. You know, I can just feel you have to wake up every morning and say, I am healthy and fit.

Yeah, every morning.

Like, I want affirmations. I am healthy and fit. I am worthy and wealthy, whatever it is. Like you. Those you need to be saying every day.

Right?

Nobody wants to hear that. They're like, no. That you're like, alright, we're gonna break this down. We're gonna figure this out. And so I know, Beverly, give me the marketing strategy plan.

Totally, totally, absolutely. It doesn't sound sexy. That's why it's. It sounds too woo.

It sounds woo. Or people are like, beverly, this is kooky. How have you navigated those? Right. Especially too for you. You come from a very scientific, varying high level. Like, listen, I can break down all of this hormone response in the brain to you, but let's connect with how you identify yourself. So how have you been able to bridge that?

Yeah, so I would say with my clients, it definitely takes time and I would say I do 90% of the session is listening and there's little nuggets in everything they say. There's little gems. And my goal over the years, as I keep practicing in your, in your.

Content, you've been really starting to gear some stuff about gut health. So I'm curious specifically because I, I feel like it's a lot of.

Is paying attention to the way someone's body is moving, the way their voice is changing over certain parts of the story or something that happened. And you start seeing some patterns and some behaviors that come up and kind of asking questions about, is that how you feel about yourself? And then they're like, what did I say? And then I say, you just said you don't feel like you should ever be allowed to say that you need a veggie. And then they're like, yeah, I don't, I don't feel like I can say that. I feel like people would laugh at me. And then it opens up this door to this conversation. So it's good. It's slow and gentle and you kind of. I feel like you do have to get to know someone a little bit and then also talk about really confusing.

Information about like, what leaking.

Got that a Little bit of sometimes a little science can be fun. Pepper the conversation, what's wrong?

Like it's not right. It's not. It's wrong. And in truth, I'm with this.

Is your brain really identifying with this certain, this certain way, this certain sense of self or where do you think that's coming from? Where else does this show up? And people often hold their own answers, which is honestly, like you could almost joke. It's really lazy coaching, but my job is really not always just to provide a bunch of information, but to listen and track back to what people are saying. And they often have fantastic ideas about where something came from and what they can do about it. So if I can use that path, I like to use that one. Because then their own brain is sifting through things, connecting dots. And then when we then talk about what do you think we can do about this, you know, what might be a reasonable place to start unraveling this story a little bit? They often have very good ideas about what to do. So if I can I go in that direction. It's definitely not unheard of to have a client who can't get there because they're just feeling very unaware or very stuck, probably for some really complicated reasons. And me nudging a little bit with let's try this, let's try that. We kind of go down that road without strict homework, but really kind of experimenting a little bit. I'm trying to just kind of open up that door just a little bit. But I like to have very client led discussions and then problem solving. So then they start to kind of think about it. The best clients are the curious clients, right? Because they're, they're like, you know, this makes me think of blank and blank and blank. And all these wonderful things show up that are full of great information and insight. So I like to use someone own brain for insight and answers when I can.

That's amazing. I'll say this too. You know, I always think of coaching too as parenting, for better or worse. But Joey says all the time that the most powerful thing that you can do as a coach for your client is give them clarity. And if you rob them of getting the lesson that they need, that's like never letting your kids learn lessons. Like, you know, you can watch your, you know, aside from like, you know, put your hand on the stove. I'm not saying let's put our kids in the hospital, but I know that my child's gonna learn a lesson. I'm not gonna take it from them because they need to figure that out, then that out for themselves. Same thing for the clients.

Right? You learning through experience and kind of that self discovery will lead to more and better self regulation than me. Kind of like administering things from my ivory tower. Which totally was CrossFit. Erin being like, these are your macros. You got to eat these zone blocks. Just weigh and measure all your food. No one does that. That doesn't help them live a better life at all. So kind of learning to go in the total opposite direction. I think that some motivation and the right nudge placed right at the right moment can be really helpful. I think good coaching should motivate us and help us. But oftentimes the brain holds its own answers.

That's true too. And honestly, me too, I was like, I was rigid too. Rigid and dogmatic. Right. I think too that that's also brain based and because we're tribal humans. But I was like, no, you need.

To do it this way.

And if you don't do it this way, then what? Yeah, Nothing. Then nothing. And it's not bad or good.

Nothing. Yep. Good. Well said. Then what? Nothing. Exactly. Right. It's so funny.

I honestly, I know this too. And I'll just, I'll leave it at this. Like for myself. I recognize when I start to get into those, those that way of thinking that just speaks more about me and my insecurities and what I'm trying to prove than it does about the client.

I think you're exactly right. And I think this is something our industry suffers from a lot, whether movement or nutrition. And this is why a coach's origin story is important. Because we all get into this field for a reason. Nutrition saved our life. Nutrition saved a relative's life. Strength and conditioning helped us go from the small, nerdy kid at school who was getting bullied to the strong, independent hero of his own story. All these different things. But then also with the nutrition space and training, I think a big error that our industry makes is we take our origin story and then assume that's what everyone is experiencing. So I could be an anti diet, anti diet culture expert. And then everyone I have come into my practice, I will treat them with this very specific strategy for anti diet life. But then what if one client comes through who's leptin resistant? They can't feel hunger in satiety, so they might need a little bit of help. Some bumper pads at the very beginning. So I might accidentally fail a client because my own origin story I'm projecting onto everybody. Or someone might say counting Macros saved my life, reversed my diabetes, whatever it might be. Everyone needs macros, but we might have a client come in who needs more intuitive eating strategies.

Strategies.

It's like people being like, every client is going to do FMS or every client is going to do CrossFit. And it's like, can we stop with the bundles? Like, can we just stop with bundles? Every client. My practice, I try to always have client first, client first, client first. What do they need? Where are they coming from? It doesn't matter where I'm coming from. It's about what this person has experienced. And my clients are all so different. I can't imagine treating them all the same way.

Right. You'll have one client that's like, macros destroyed my metabolism. And then one client where macros make. You know, it's so amazing. So funny you said that too, because I'm like, fms. FMS or pri. What if it's both? Like what?

Heaven forbid there be nuance.

I know.

I don't know why our industry gets so stuck with that. I think people just hate nuance so much, they just. Just forget it. It's just way easier to commit to something fully. But it's not great for us and it's definitely not great for our clients.

And I also think too, that partly it is brain based. Right. We're also getting that hormone to like find us versus them.

Right.

We're always looking for that survival, like, you know, what's better. But that's not true. It's just exactly the. No. And then manage.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's so true. I think that's one thing our industry could stand to really keep in mind, that it's something we struggle with here.

Yes, agreed. So, Erin, I definitely want to be mindful of your time, so thank you so much for hanging out with me today. This has been so insightful. So for my listeners who want to learn more from you, where can I.

Send them so you can follow me on Instagram at Erin's Uncommon Eats. And then I keep all my recipes over atthe Uncommon Dish.com if you want to see the website. And then my personal website for my coaching Practice is Erin murraywellness.com okay, great.

And we will for sure link that all up.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was awesome to be here.

Amazing. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for hanging out with us today. If you like this video, chances are your friends will too. So be sure to hit, like share this with your friend. And if you haven't already hit, subscribe and tap that bell to be notified when the next latest and greatest video comes out on this channel for you. And I'll catch you on the next video. I'm speaking specifically about leaky gut, but I think that's nutrition across the board. It's so information overload.

Totally.

So how do you not, like, how do you navigate this kind of stuff for your clients and your coaches?

Good question. So the gut space is very interesting. And as you mentioned, I totally agree. Nutrition in general, there's more going on here than feels comfortable because there really is so much. And there's a reason why, like, in school, the course load is what it is, or the research reading courses, the microbiology, the nutrient metabolism, anatomy and physiology 1 and 2, and going in and taking tests and lab tests on corpses and organs and things like that. Because, man, these are complex sciences. So that's something I just embrace because they're so cool, and I just do happen to love that. Sorry, There's a really bright light shining on me. Oh, my gosh. Let me close this window. Sorry. I don't want you to not see my face. So with the gut health space, there's. What we really have to do is put on our microbiology hats, because the gut is what makes us a superorganism. So we have 100 trillion or so bacterial cells housed in the colon. So for those who are thinking, okay, where is that? We know that we have microbiomes around our whole body, so we do house bacteria. There's certain bacteria in the mouth. There's bacteria on the acid mantra in the skin that are suitable for that pH. They're all over the place. The urogenital tract and then, of course, the GI tract. So the GI tract starts in the mouth, and it really is a funnel for the outside world. So we have the mouth all.