How to Program Strength Training for Runners

What's up, coach? Today I'm sitting down with Romina and we're talking about building strength training programs for runners. Let's dive in. What's up, coach? I'm your host, Beverly Simpson. I'm the owner of Beeson's and Fitness and the founder of the PT Profit podcast and PT Profit formula. And today, this is an interview I did with my friend Romina Kostich and who is the owner of Skill Skilled Strength. And we talked all about building a strength training program for runners. So whether you work with avid runners or you are an avid runner, Romina is bringing insight to you that you can navigate for yourself and or for your clients. So without further ado, let's roll that interview. But before we get started, if you like this video, hit like hit, hit, subscribe and tap that bell to be notified when the next latest and greatest video comes out. Romina, thank you so much for joining me. How are you today?

I'm good. Thanks so much for having me. How are you doing? I'm good.

I'm super excited for this. This podcast is going to be awesome. I mean, when I watched your training for running, it literally blew my mind. So I'm super excited to bring you on the show.

Thanks so much. I'm glad it blew your mind. I feel like it's very different than what most people think strength training should be like for runners and just it in general for humans.

Absolutely. Which is why I'm so excited for this episode because I know we're going to dive into that today. So for those of you who have never had the chance to meet Romina, can you share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there?

Yeah. So my name is Romina Kostich. I have been a trainer since 2014 and I'm a New Yorker, born and raised in Queens, still live in Queensland. So this is where my training started, was pretty much in the city that is the mecca of personal training. And it was a career switch for me. So I had originally gone to the Fashion Institute and graduated with a degree in advertising and Marketing Communications. Summa cum laude, top of my class. Loved like what I was learning and then I dabbled in like a bunch of the internships for a year and a half afterwards and loved the people aspect. Like I liked being able to interact with like my co workers and learn all these things and do projects and just being able to be hands on with things that just being able to be given responsibilities, but it wasn't enough. That like I wasn't in love with it enough to be sitting at a desk all day for nine hours a day. And so that was a deal breaker for me because my body just wanted to move every day at 5pm I looked forward to going to the gym and what my routine was going to be, what my workouts were going to be. I wasn't a trainer at the time, I was just someone who was introduced to strength training. When I think it was 18, I asked my parents for training sessions for my birthday and they got me like eight sessions at a New York sports club. And at that point all I had been doing was running on the treadmill and doing a million sit ups and crunches. And that was my, that was my workout regimen. I wasn't educated, I didn't know what to do. This is way back a long time and I got into exercise because of body image issues. Just I'd always been like self conscious of what I looked like when I was younger. And then growing up in middle school and high school, you're just, you have no idea who you are and like it's just an awkward time. So I got into exercise because though I played a bunch of sports in the school season, whenever there wasn't stuff going on, that's when I was like, okay, let me go outside for a run because why not? Like it's the only thing I can really do. I don't have a gym membership, I don't know how to work out, but I know how to run. Everyone kind of just like you just know how to run, right? You get, you start being chased by something, you know how to run. So that was my first kind of experience with exercise and it was fun for me. So then when I got introduced to that, the trainer who showed me strength training, I was touching 40 pound dumbbells and barbells and things that I had never had my hands on, wouldn't have known what to do with them otherwise. And my body changed. Like I told him, like I want to get leaner and my body got leaner. And even though it was just like maybe a month or two of working with him, I like all the things he taught me I took with me and kept doing them after our time together. And then I like almost became a gym rat because I was like, this is incredible. I had no idea this could happen to you just from touching weights. And it was helping my running at the same time. But because I wasn't a professional and because it was just kind of like monkey see, monkey Do I got injured a bunch. And it's not to say that everyone kind of gets injured when they just start working out. But for whatever reason I was injury prone. I was trying cool exercises because oh, that person looks cool doing them. Let me try that. And it didn't work. Like I, maybe I hurt my back ones, I hurt my hamstring ones. Just a bunch of things here and there. And I found myself in and out of physical therapy every like three to six months for some kind of itis or an ouch or a strain and it was annoying. It was.

A trainer at this time?

No, I was just a gym rep. This, I guess this is the period from when I was, I'm 30 years old now, so this was when I was 18 until like my early 20s, maybe like 22, 23. When I was 23 I became a trainer. I believe that was the year. So having been around these professionals who are rehabbing me and re educating my body, this is how you do something. I learned a lot through those experiences and I'm still friends with like the PTAs and they were just really cool people and they influenced me in terms of like I was just amazed that they could look at my body and see the adjustment they had to make. I remember I was doing an exercise and my, the pta, who's my friend now, he, he's like relax your neck. And I'm like, you could see my neck tense. What? That's so cool. So it just, it happened really gradually. I think by the time I was like, I was still had recently finished my undergrad in that advertising world you could really do anything with a communications degree. Like there wasn't like a set like category of industries you could work in. But like you know, you're writing the COVID letter, you're updating your resume and like you're like I'm eager to apply for this position. And in my head I was like, I'm not eager whatsoever. I'm just, I'm over this. I don't want to fake my enthusiasm. The love is not there. So I told my parents, I was like, I want to make the switch. They were supportive. They're like, yeah, go for it. And like it's a very low barrier to entry. To become a personal trainer, all you have to do. And I don't think people know that you just self study a textbook or some kind. Of course there's a bunch of accreditations that you can get. You pay some money and as long as you pass the test, you can Legally train people. But like me. Right. I didn't know anything besides my personal experience and what the textbooks were teaching you. And what the textbooks teach you is also pretty outdated. And granted, this is 2014 and, like, I haven't touched those textbooks since. So I hope that there's been some progress in terms of how they teach people to work with other people's bodies and minds and systems. Right. It's a lot of things, not just muscles and bones. Like people think and think since then, because it was so such a low barrier to entry, it was easy to get a job. I think New York Sports Club was my first job ever in the fitness industry. I lasted there maybe like six or nine months, and then I switched to, and it ended up working at Equinox for, I think, the last six, seven years. And then I'm no longer with them. Now I just work for myself. But what. Because there was so much to learn and because I just kept, like, my mind kept being blown by listening to people who were smarter than me, coaches who were older and more experienced with me than me. It. It was always fascinating, and I was always like, damn, I'm never going to know enough. So I just. I always invested in education, continuing education courses, seminars, attended the workshops, flew to conferences, and that's. That's been normal for me. I've always been the person to keep paying other people who are smarter than me to learn from them. I still do it, and I feel like it's what's molded me not just in terms of becoming smarter with knowing how to work with my body, but becoming that much smarter to work with other people's bodies in a way that I think most of the industry doesn't quite grasp.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I also think, too. You know, it's funny, you do bring up the certification process, and I haven't looked at the text in a while either. But it's. What's interesting to me is that you just. Nobody learns how to swim by reading a book on swimming. And so now we're going to teach people how to, you know, manage movement by reading a book. Like, to me, that's insane. And I know there are some certifications that are changing the way that we do our testing, but it's still.

It.

It's a. It does blow my mind in that way that we can actually have that much responsibility and not realize it.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Yeah.

So now I'm curious now that. Now that you're learning all of that now, what do you Primarily.

Who do you primarily serve nowadays? As of the last, I think, two to three years, I have decided to go into the niche that is underserved, which I believe, which are runners, the running community. And that's anyone from like someone who professionally competes in marathons to someone like me who just likes to go run a few blocks outside and call it a day. And everyone in between that. And I think there's already a lot of great running coaches. I don't think there's anyone, or at least enough people who are specializing from the strength training and performance side of being able to cater to runners.

Yeah. Can you share with us a little bit, like, what are some of the differences between, you know, strength for runners versus the running coaches that we do see?

So with running coaches, and I think that's. It's a broad category, so I think different coaches will specialize in different aspects of running. But it can be someone who, like, it could be professional coaches who work with the Olympians and the track and field events. Could be someone who works with marathon runners. Could also be just people who work with those athletes, but who are not professional, who are amateur, but just want to get better at that sport. And there'll be people who maybe prescribe their mileage, prescribe, if it's not just running, kind of like what other kinds of cardio workouts they will be doing to be able to get someone from running 3 miles casually to 26.2 or 50 miles in a day. Right. Just kind of like progressing someone in terms of the volume. Do speed work this day, do hills this day, and just knowing how to plan the actual kind of running volume and provide different kinds of stimulus. Right. For speed versus for uphill work versus downhill over speed work. And I'd say that that's something where I'm still. I'm personally not there in terms of expertise. And I want to have. I like to have other people who know that stuff so that I can kind of collaborate with them. And I have in the past. Whereas me, I can come in just from the strength training and performance side because that's something I know like the back of my hand versus the running coaches, they know their stuff like the back of their hand.

Yeah. Like, it's the difference between a skill acquisition and then building strength and resilience for the skill.

Yeah, it's definitely more skill work, I believe, because you can keep running right. For years without ever doing any of anything else physically with your body. And you'll get better at running to some degree. But that Won't necessarily mean that you change your range of motion where you need it so that the repetitive stress you're putting upon your body doesn't get channeled into one little area. Like, that's something that happened to me. I developed shin splints only in my left lower leg, potentially a stress fracture, because I had that nine years ago. But in my case, it could have been for so many reasons. And I think injuries are very multifactorial. It's not just one issue that caused it. It could be a bunch of things and not just like muscles and bones could be a lot of aspects of your life. But what has helped me and what has changed how I move, literally. And there's like pretty drastic before and after pictures of movement and like posture that I have too. It's been strength training. It's just been putting your body in very specific positions that you're not normally in. And it literally changes the shape of your joints and your bones, which it's not talked about that way. People don't think that way. I think the general population, the way that media has communicated fitness and what is good for you has been very kind of band aid categoried in terms of stretch, in terms of do 3 sets of 12, 15 for all these exercises and you're good to go. They're not going to be able to communicate what an expert can say in a few paragraphs on a page of a magazine. I think they've tried to simplify it just to encourage people to have a little bit of tidbits and knowledge and fitness tips here and there, which have some value, but it's not the whole picture and it's communicated to the masses. So you're telling hundreds of thousands of people this one tip, but it's probably only appropriate for a handful of those people. It's not appropriate for everyone. And perhaps it could be harmful for some of the people who are reading or listening to that.

And I also think too, you brought up a really good point, is that people, when they are thinking about running coaches, that they don't consider themselves as a runner or an athlete, even though they're running every single day.

Yeah, I actually looked up the definition of athlete on Google, I think this week, just because I was curious, like, what is the actual definition? What do people associate with that term? And there were a few definitions. One of them was someone who professionally plays sports or physical activity. But then it was also like anyone who is involved in sporting events or amateurs of any level could be novice, could be professional. But someone who participates in sports and running is technically a sport, even though you don't sign up for marathons or any kind of even 3k races, you're still an athlete in that you participate in the sport even if you don't tell anyone that you do it.

Absolutely. And I think that people don't recognize that or realize that in themselves, that even though they are, which is kind of a little bit of what I was getting to earlier, is that people don't realize that even though they aren't an athlete. I'm using quotes. If you're listening to the podcast, but you're, you know, they're. Even though they don't identify with that word athlete, they are participating in an athletic event. It's not just, hey, let's just go work out and get fit. It's like running is an athlete can be an athletic event. So even though they don't associate with being an athlete, that's what they're doing. They'll realize it.

Yeah, I think that definition also spanned into just vigorous physical activity or something like. Right. There's CrossFit athletes. They do things like squats and dumbbell presses. Right. People go to the gym and they do squats and dumbbell presses. Like you're still athletic whether or not you associate with the term and want to call yourself an athlete.

Right, Exactly.

Exactly.

Right. So what are some of the things that you do for your clients that you really feel, you know, are different than what most. Than what most people are used to and what most people think they need?

Most people are used to? I think what most people are used to. And I guess we're just talking about like runners and people who just work out for health. Right?

Yes.

What most people are used to is I think what they see in their face most often. And I think what gets to be in front of people's faces most often are those very generic workout fitness tips that they're being given to the teenager, the 30 year old and the grandma. There's no specificity to it. There's no consideration of where are you now? What's your past like in terms of physical activity and sports? Where are you trying to go? What are your limitations? What's your injury history? Why are you limited? Why do you want to get like, there's a lot of questions that you want to be able to ask and assess for a person. At least that's how I do what I do with my clients, because I'm talking to one individual person and it's not just their Body like they're a person. Like they have a life, they have a family, they have a spouse. There's a lot of cool stuff about someone. So you have to consider those things and how they're going to be able, how they're going to play into someone's life and athletic endeavors if they have something they're trying to work for physically. So that's, I think what people are used to. What I was saying was they're used to seeing, oh you, they're used to being told or advised that you have to stretch. And stretching, it just doesn't do what people think it does. And you can Google does the stretching change muscle length? And the Google will tell you no, it'll point you to research or some kind of study and it'll say that stretching just desensitizes the cells in your muscles that tell you that something feels tight just for a few minutes, which is why it feels good. And I was just, I was recently wondering like, where did that even come from? And I like, I'm imagining like someone, someone just felt like tight or their back was tired and they just bent over to grab their toes and they're like, whoa, this feels great. This is what you should do guys. And that just became the global advice. And it doesn't help that they're professionals in my industry in terms of training and people who are just movement professionals in different categories. The textbooks tell you to prescribe that to people. And so until that changes, I don't think it's going to be a little while for people to stop doing it. I mean, I recently did a consultation with someone who just complained of some right hip tightness and he stretched for eight weeks and nothing changed. And then he was finally to try something. He was ready to try something new after that. But I think people have to experience something that doesn't quite work the way that they think and then they're able to realize, okay, this didn't work, maybe something else will and they can be a little more open minded.

Is there ever a time where you do use stretching?

Me personally, no. But I don't hold it against anyone because it does feel good. It does desensitize tightness or the feeling of it for a few minutes. But because it doesn't really create lasting change, we're not getting to the root of anything. So for me personally, it's a waste of time if it's not creating change, but someone else might. Like I have a client who, he's always tight and in between repetitions and Sets of whatever exercises he's doing. He's like rolling around, twisting his body, squeezing things like stretching things. And like I've had that client for so many years and it's just, that's his M.O. it's just like I'm not going to be able to tell him, hey, maybe stop doing that. He's going to be like, no, I'm going to do it. So it's not for me to say anything. But then there's opportunities with someone like him where if one day he heard his back trying to help his friend move or some other issue where the stretch he was doing just wasn't working and I'm like, hey, let's try this instead. And I insert my intervention, my exercise or my breathing position or whatever and then he's like, oh, wow, that makes a huge difference. Okay. And then he becomes a little more open minded and he can buy in. But with people like him and just I think with most of the people that I work with, because if this stuff is so new, I'm not going to throw it at them right away. I'm just going to dose it based on like understanding their personality too and how much of my expertise they actually want. Because that's another thing. I feel that some people, they don't want to know what you know. They don't really care. They just want to feel like they got a workout in. So I can know all the knowledge in the world, but the person doesn't care. So as long as I feel like I'm meeting them where they are and meeting their expectations of what they want out of the session or our time together, that's more important and that's more valuable for them.

Yeah. Is there ever a time while stretching would cause pain or cause injury or cause pain?

I can't say for sure. I don't think so. What I am curious, and I forgot where I read this about too, is we don't know what is being stretched. And I think to clarify what stretching means is I think pulling two ends of something apart, lengthening something, Right? So is that the muscle or is that the connective tissue? Is that the tendon or is it the ligaments that you're lengthening which are designed to stay taut for, to prevent excess motion at a joint. And there is such thing as ligament laxity, not just in women who are pregnant, but your ligaments can develop laxity from compensatory positions that you've been in over time. Like I had that. A lot of people have that I was very Flexible at one point. And people used to praise me for being, oh wow, your mobility is so great. Not realizing that, like I was just a walking gumby and full of compensations. And ironically I was always injured, not because just of my ligament laxity, but when you add that and then layers of just faulty movement on top of that without knowing it for decades or at least a decade for me, things, things hit the fan eventually. So it's, it's hard to say, but in some cases, like I have a client or two where stretching made things worse. They had an ache, they had a pain. And like we needed to shorten their muscles in certain places for that ache to go away because things were just way too long for way, literally way too long for too much time. Like way too long.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Way too long in terms.

Way too long for way too long. Yeah.

You know, it's funny, people think, oh, I need to, I'm tight. Not recognizing that there is the opposite. Maybe you don't need to. Maybe it needs to be. Maybe it needs to be tight because we can't, you can't. We're going from a feeling. We can't look inside the body. Too long internally.

Too long for way too long. Yeah.

You know, it's funny, people think, oh, I need to, I'm tight. Not recognizing that there is the opposite. Maybe you don't need to. Maybe it needs to be. Maybe it needs to be tight because we can't. You can't. We're going from a feeling. We can't look inside the body and see what's happening inside there. So that totally makes sense.

Sense.

So now with your runners specifically, I feel like stretching is really common. We're all like, yeah, that's, we're all taught you need to do your running stretches.

It's easy to believe too because it feels good. Like you finish five miles, you're all hot and sweaty and then you go, and then you go to stretch something that if you weren't hot and sweaty would feel terrible. But now it feels great. You know, it's, it literally feels good for people and it feels like something is changing. Like they do feel looser afterwards. It's similar to like into like getting a massage, which I've had some in recent weeks. So like you do actually feel pretty good and like there is some perceivable improvement in range of motion where you didn't have it before. But it's short lived.

Yeah, it's not, it's not something that you're that can continue it's just in that moment.

Yeah, it's in that moment. And for that reason, there's a benefit to it. Right. Because people want to feel like they're accomplishing something or perceivably doing something good for their bodies. But again, for the example of, like, the client I had with, she had very long hamstrings, and she was having pain at the insertion area. And until we, like, did some positioning work that shortened the length of those hamstrings, her pain wasn't going away. So it depends. Kind of like, people don't know. People don't know their bodies. The everyday person doesn't know the location of muscles and tendons and, like, the structures and the bones. Like, they don't know anatomy like a trainer does. A lot of trainers don't know anatomy to that degree. It's something that I eventually learned, but so they're going after feelings, and feelings don't always coincide with structure. Mm.

Oh, yeah. For sure.

So much. Right. I have. I had. Before I was a trainer, I was working out in the gym, and one of the trainers that worked there, he's like, hey, let me show you the stretch. And he showed me a stretch for my lap, and I did what he was doing, and he. And I felt nothing. It just is like. I'm like, what am I doing? He's like, yeah, you're doing it well, do you feel a stretch? And I'm like, no, I don't feel like. I don't feel anything. And at the time, I would just. I just. I. Whatever. I don't know what was happening. But now, years later, I'm like, I didn't need that. He maybe needed that. That's not what I needed. So.

Yeah. So I'd love for you to just dive in a little bit to, you know, what is your approach when it comes to strength for runners? And why would. And how would you say it's different than. Other than. How is it, you know, how's it different than, you know, say, an approach for a CrossFit athlete?

So where can I start?

I know, right? That's.

Yeah, it's a good question. So what I got into in 2017 following yet another injury was I learned from the Postural Restoration Institute. And what they teach you is essentially that your breathing and respiration is like a loophole into getting into your nervous system to shift from fight or flight to rest and digest more. So. And there's a lot more to it. I'm oversimplifying, but when that happens and you create A nervous system shift. And when you breathe in a very deep manner and exhale fully, what's happening is you're getting your rib bones to rotate to a very large degree that they don't normally do in a 24, 7 period or for all 50 years of your life or however long you've lived. And your breathing can be influenced by so much, and it's unconscious. Right. You don't control it. It's just involuntarily. It's how you keep existing. And stress can influence it. Trauma can influence it. Your past can influence it. Your child can influence it. So when you breathe a certain way, or if you don't breathe optimally, Right. It's like imagine if your knee, which bends and straightens. Imagine it only stayed straight for your whole life. Imagine it could never bend. That's just one joint. Right. Your ribs have something like between 27 and 40 something joints. Wow. It's a lot. Some people don't know this, and I didn't realize that they were supposed to move. So what they teach is, along with the respiration, what you're doing is you're exhaling for so long, and I'm talking about like maybe 10 seconds, which is a lot of time for a lot of people. You're getting ribs to rotate to a certain degree that they don't normally do. And when one joint rotates, all the other joints in your body move and rotate too, even though you don't feel it. So it's literally giving you access to new range of motion that you didn't have before in a very authentic way, because you're getting to the root of the problem, or not the problem, but the root of why things aren't moving. Something is probably moving, not moving somewhere else. And it's usually more central. I see.

Okay, so now this is. I've talked about breathing a lot, but this is the first time I'm hearing it in this way. Okay, so now when you're talking about the rotation of the ribs, are you taught. Because when I think rotation, I feel like side to side.

Yeah.

Completely exhaling, you're not going to feel rotation. So this is rotation that's happening that you can't feel or sense. Right.

You don't know what it's like until you're introduced to it. I say that firsthand, right. From knowing what it's like. So. Yeah. So you're talking about, like, that's how we rotate when we move and walk and run. Yes, if I'm talking just exhalation, like you're just sitting in a chair, not moving, and just. I'm talking about deflation, like, all coach. Like, I want you to feel like your rib cage is getting smaller in your sports bra from all directions. And I'm talking about, like, well, I can't. It's not. It's on camera. So imagine that you know Venetian blinds.

But if you're listening, you can't. You're like, what?

Yeah, so if you're listening, right, you know Venetian blinds, right? They're the flat things and you open and close. So imagine Venetian blinds around a fishbowl. Got it. Right. So they're curved. It's a circle of Venetian blinds. So when you inhale, the Venetian blinds open. When you exhale, they close. Got it. But imagine that inside that fishbowl, every time you exhale, they also pulled in from all directions, away from the actual glass of the bowl. Then when you inhale, they would expand and go into the glass of the bowl.

Got it.

So it's like a pump, right? Just like your lungs, right? They empty, they get smaller. When you inhale, they get bigger.

Yes. Got it.

And people's lungs are at the very top of their ribcage. When you inhale, they expand, they go to the bottom. Like towards the bottom of your ribcage. So it's this whole, like, pumping action, and we're full of fluid and air pressure and trainers. I never realized that until what, three, four years ago until I was exposed to this stuff, and it's like, oh, yeah, duh. But otherwise, like, that's not what the textbook that certified me taught me whatsoever. They just, they, you know, it's just, it's a complete over the head type of thing when you first get exposed to this stuff, and it almost makes you realize, like, damn, I've been doing stuff wrong this whole time. And it's like, no, you're not. You didn't hurt anybody. Like, people still got fit, they still got in shape, they still lost weight working with you. They still reach their. Their running goals and hit PRs. But there's this other aspect where you're like, well, let me do their body a much better service by. By appreciating and respecting the nature of these things and applying those principles to the strength training positions that you're going to hit PRs. But there's this other aspect where you're like, well, let me do their body a much better service by. By appreciating and respecting the nature of these things and applying those principles to the strength training positions. That you're going to give them but a very tiny positional adjustment to how their pelvis is moving, where their arms are reaching to get the ribs to be in a certain position. Those are the little gems that I feel like 99% of the industry doesn't know how to implement. They don't have that insight to be able to apply it. A deadlift is still a deadlift, but those very tiny positional adjustments make a huge difference. It's night and day when you know how to coach someone to move literally from their hip sockets, where I think most people don't realize they're moving from their lumbar spine. And it's so subtle, it's not visible to the naked eye until you start watching these things for years at a time. And at this point, I've been watching bodies just over seven years. So right now, three, four years ago, when I started to see this very tiny detail, I had to learn how to see it. And I'd been watching bodies for years at that point. So it's just something that you keep learning with your coaching eye. And you start to see things that you couldn't before. You start to see the way someone breathes. You start to see ribs expanding. You start to see when they walk, one arm swings more than the other. You start to see that their hip hikes. It's so tiny. It's the reason that I pay people or people pay me. There's the reason that, like, I invest in someone who's, who's an expert in this, who can see things that I can't see to be able to help me. And that's, that's also why people pay me to be able to help them. There's this lens that experts in this have that the masses unfortunately don't yet, but it's, it is slowly starting to change. I just don't think it's going to be widespread as much as, like, the easy, hey, just go stretch that. If it feels tight, that is just an easy thing. It's an easy bone to throw somebody because they go stretch it because they feel tight. And they'll say, oh, yeah, now it doesn't feel so tight. But then they have to keep doing that same stretch every day for the rest of their life because it's not addressing the root. It's not getting things to say again, move where they weren't.

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, you know, with running specifically there, it's a, it's the breathing component is really he. Like, people are taken to the Max when they're performing the, when they're running, right?

Yeah. So I mean it very nicely ties in with that population of athletes because runners, it's, it's a cardiorespiratory event. Right. It's not the same as like doing five squats and taking a five minute break. So you're constantly breathing, you're under stress, you're under the load of your body and it's very spread springy. You're bouncing off the ground every time. It's elastic. So there's a lot of things that go into it. And because it's so elastic and or it ideally you can be training for it to be more springy and less kind of floppy. It really depends. Kind of like comes down to an assessment. But with the breathing stuff, I've seen like overnight transformation. Just because I got someone to breathe a certain way for the first time and they were already in excellent shape, they were doing 10 mile runs, no problem. But then they come back saying like, I was breathing so much easier and for someone to easily do 10 miles before they worked with me and then to have that beneficial experience just because we got their, we got their system to shift out of a, whatever their nervous system shifts. We got their, their body to pump pressure a different way. We got their ribs to rotate. When your ribs rotate, everything else moves. Your pelvis moves. So your hip flexors are going to relax and not feel tight. If you get your ribs to move, it's a chain reaction up and down because those things are at the center of your body, your extremities, your limbs stem out from the rib cage and your leg bones stem out of your hip sockets, which are the pelvis, which has a relationship or needs to have a better relationship with the rib cage. It's also the relationship of your diaphragm and your pelvic floor. Those two things need to be able to kind of bounce your guts and organs between them up and down if you want to be springy and elastic as an athlete. And matter of fact, the better you can position that, the more elasticity and spring you'll have, which is a better way of using your energy in terms of running 5 miles, 26 miles, whatever it is.

So I'm curious, you know, for your runners, in your experience in their strength training programs, what are some of the biggest gaps that you feel like coaches miss when they're training runners to help them improve the performance?

I think some breath work is really valuable as much as I tried to like get away from it because People don't associate breath work with fitness. They're just like, I'm breathing. What do you mean? Like, they don't actually, like, take the time to. To get a full exhalation, to get their ribs to rotate to a certain degree. It's a lot easier to give someone a foam roller and be like, hey, massage this. Does it feel good? Yeah. Okay, cool. It did something, but not really. So I think a foam roller has value. Right. If you really want to just, like, massage something for a couple minutes, it again, it does provide the temporary feeling and perception of, okay, yeah, it is actually looser, but it just lasts a few minutes. Going to come back the next day. I'm someone who used to foam roll an hour before. I did back squats every single day that I trained, like, not too long ago. Now, I don't foam roll, but I think the gap is not just appreciating that aspect of the body, but understanding that not everyone needs this exercise. This person might benefit more from this variation of this split squat versus person B. And I think that's where the specificity comes down to. Right. In a group fitness class, all 20, 30 people are doing the same exercise, but they're all going to look different. They're all going to have their own interpretation of what the instructor is asking them to do, and their body is going to reflect that physical interpretation. And that's where the instructor will go around and kind of maybe like, adjust and be like, hey, push this foot backwards. Bring this foot up more, whatever. But it's kind of like it proves that people have their own interpretations of what a movement should look like and feel like. And until someone intervenes, like a trainer or a skilled coach, they can't make that change for themselves, regardless if they're always looking in the mirror and working out that way. And they might not even need the exercises they're currently doing because they've been doing them for so long that it's probably just perpetuating or keeping them pigeonholed in a certain level of athleticism. And they can't get out of that or progress to the next level until they are shown, hey, you could be doing this stuff and get so much more benefit out of it.

Yeah. So what are some of the things, like, what would you say are, like, the most underrated strength exercises that runners miss, that coaches don't know to give their runners?

It's hard to say, like, these exercises are what you should be doing, and these. No, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, it's. I'll answer It a little differently. I'll say. How are you prescribing that exercise and how are you coaching them to do it?

Mm.

Right. Because it comes down to, like, the person's interpretation of what the movement will be.

Yes.

I'm not a dancer. I went to a hip hop class dance a few times. And like, the people in front of the class, they know what they're doing. So I'm all the way in the back and I don't look like those people in the front. I just don't move that way. But I'm just. I'm following the instructor and that's what he's telling me to do. But I have no rhythm. But I think that people are just trying. People's bodies and brains are unconsciously doing their best at, you know, you gave them the split squat to do one foot in front of the other, move up and down.

Yeah.

But they don't realize that they're not quite moving from their hip sockets to a maximal degree. So they're not actually moving through hip flexion and extension, which are things that happen when you're running or they should happen instead. What they may not realize that they're doing is they are arching their back and moving more so from the knee, bending and straightening or their backs arching and flexing more so than the hip socket itself is getting any action.

Yeah. So that's exactly what I was going for in the way that you answer it is because I feel like so many coaches don't realize that the strength training program that they are putting on their clients has a direct impact on the performance of someone who is doing, who is running. And I feel like most people can't put those together or don't. Or don't often know how to put it together to see, to be able to make that decision on. Oh, I'm making this choice in my exercise selection so that I can improve the spring in their set or improve their endurance or actually get the ribcage to move in a specific way. I feel that's what. That's what I was going for. So you answered that question beautifully.

Okay, great. Yeah, that's. I think that's all it comes down to is those. It's super tiny. It's very subtle, but it's a night and day difference. If you can make that adjustment for yourself. A split squat is still a split squat. It's just, how are you performing it? A deadlift is still a deadlift. It's just, where are you driving from? Right. People. People have been told And I've been told like, you have to push through your heels. But what happens is people think, oh, that's the only part of my foot that needs to do any work. And then their toes lift off the ground. And I see it all, I see, I see trainers that lifting that way all the time. Right. It's just, it's, it's something that until you realize there's other parts of your foot and it's so tiny, it's so subtle, you have no idea that you have a ball, that you have five balls of the foot and the ball, the big toe and ball, the pinky toe form this tripod. And when you push through it, not only do you have so much more drive and you can engage your hamstrings more and your abs without having to look for them or squeeze things. That's another factor is people, because people drive through their heels only, for example, they miss out on so many other things and then it becomes compensatory without them realizing it. And compensation just means another way to do it that isn't the way it's designed.

Well, the body is always looking for the least, like the path to the least resistance. Like they want to, the body wants to do it the easiest way possible.

Yes. Yeah.

If it's found a compensation that's going to get the task, it will do the task asked of it at any point. So, yeah, you know, that makes sense.

Yeah. It's like when you take out your garbage, right, you're going to round your back to pick up what, the five pound bag. Not even like, listen, this comes. It's easy, it's so easy. But it's also like, you're not in a gym, it's just your garbage. Just take it out and round your back if you need to. Like. But if it's going to be a 250 pound bar, 500 pound barbell, you're going to want to pay attention to what your body's doing.

Yeah, well, I know, I remember when I was working with my mom, they'd be like, do I need to deadlift my baby out of the crib? So should I get the step stool? Oh, like just pick up the baby. There's a difference between moving and training, right. We want to build resilience in the body so that we can hand bending over and grabbing the trash and taking the trash outside.

It's the resilience. Yeah, I think you nailed it. We're very resilient as it is, which is why we can get away with poor form or whatever people call it nowadays.

Thank God, because God knows how I used to train people when I thank God you're resilient.

Yeah. Like, we don't break in half. If we put a mini band around you and keep jamming your sacrum forward, like, you'll be fine until it. Until you're not fine. And that could be years.

Yes. Yeah. The problem is we just don't know when the not fine is going to be.

Yeah. And that's. That's part of what I. How I've molded myself as a professional is personally having. Having experienced so many setbacks myself. It sucks. Like, I hated, like, going, like, not being able to do what I wanted to because I had to go to PT because something was hurting me and my body wasn't letting me do what I love to do. And granted, like, that was me. That's not everyone. But if that's a possibility that we can intervene ahead of time just by putting you in very good, solid training positions to not just, like, get you in shape for your event, but to mitigate the faulty positions that we don't even need to tell you. I don't need to tell you that your hips don't move this way. I'm just going to give you this front foot elevated split squat, ask you to hold a dumbbell in the opposite hand, and you're going to move up and down, and you're going to improve your range of motion in your hips without me telling you that you have achieved 5 degrees of hip extension as a result. It's just. It's going to change for you.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

I love that. That was funny. Would you say, are you grateful for your injuries now or would you take them back?

I mean, they've brought so many lessons. Like, you always end. Like, I always end up looking back and I'm like, I'm here for a reason. Right. Seven years later, my first injury was actually I stepped off a bus and I landed on a crooked part of the sidewalk and I sprained my left ankle. And that was that. I think that set off so many other things to follow because it all. It all ties together, right? So it's. Yeah, I can go back and be like, I wish I never fucking landed on that sidewalk. Why did that happen? Right. I, like, that happened. I walked home at her. I took a nap. I woke up an hour later, and it was like, the size of a grapefruit and the color blue. But it. The. The fact that the people who rehabbed it gave me, they Put me on crutches, they bandage it, and they'll be like, you'll be fine in a week. Then they gave me, like, little mini band exercises to do with my foot, like, point and flex and make circles and draw the Alphabet. The fact that they gave me that and told me, you're good is what kind of drives my fire. Because that didn't work. Clearly, all these other things that followed it didn't work. You missed the picture. Why was it my left ankle? Right. Like, granted, like, my left one was the one that stepped in the sidewalk. But then why was my left hamstring the one that strained not too long after that? Why did my left shin develop the stress fracture? Why did my right shoulder develop tendinitis from boxing classes? Like, it's. There was a series of events, and you can tie it back to those things, and it just makes sense. It's like. It's almost like an algorithm that develops in my body.

Mm. Oh, yeah, Absolutely. How. What about now? Are you feeling like. Are you injured? Are you feeling like.

I'm not.

I don't want to jinx it, but how. How's your body resilience been now since you've gone down this, you know, rabbit hole of rehab?

For sure, it's better. I mean, compared to, like, my early 20s, when it was like, literally every three to six months back into the PT clinic, now it's. It's been a lot more. If something does happen, I just know how to handle it better and I can catch it ahead of time. Right. I think especially when it comes to running, like, when I was younger, if something bothered me, you have this runner's high. You're on a streak. You're like, oh, I only have like a mile left. Let me just push it out. And you don't know what that threshold is. You don't know if it's like, this is the day where, like, the straw is going to break the camel's back and whatever your Achilles is going to give or whatever problem in your hip. But now I kind of like, I'm a lot more in tune and I'm just a little more cautious if that's ever, like, a warning sign that I experience. And I'm now. Yeah, but it's also like, those things don't happen. They're very rare is what I'm saying, because I feel like I've done so much more for my body and I literally have a brand new body than I did four years ago. Crazy. And I would love for people to experience that. And a lot of my clients have. And it's cool to see, it's cool to watch because it goes back to my first time touching 40 pound dumbbells and seeing how it could change your body just from a strength perspective. It's like I had no idea this could happen. And then here we are a lot of years later and I like sharing that with people. I want people to experience the joy of that and the ease of stuff that follows just from training a certain way that the magazines aren't telling you to do.

Mm. Yeah, it's so, it's so good. So good. So what's. I want to be mindful of your time. So this will be the last question. What is your future? Like, what do you, what do you, what's your vision? What do you see happening in your future and the spring training for runners?

Yeah, professionally, I mean, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing for sure. And given the last 12, 13 months that this crazy world has experienced, I'm a lot more online. It's not like 95% online. And it's cool that you can reach people around the world to be able to do that. And I have internationally worked with runners and it's awesome. Right? You can literally touch more people without touching more people. And so like, I want to keep being able to do that and growing my offering online and being able to service a lot more people around the world who care about this stuff as much as I do and want to experience this change that I'm talking about in the best way possible. And then me and you were talking about potentially offering like some kind of course or mentorship or something along those lines for trainers and professionals that work with runners. Yeah. And being able to communicate the strength side and performance side that isn't quite being communicated or taught the way that I've learned from all of my mentors and educators that I've listened to.

Yeah, for sure. It's a huge area of, it's a huge area of opportunity. Mostly because, you know, even what we were talking about earlier in the show where, where people don't really realize, you know, there's how their strength training program impacts their, the, the client's running ability or running or running performance. Feel like people miss that.

Right.

People don't know how to. I think it's twofold. They don't know how to put together the strength training program or the exercise selection that's going to move the dial in any way. Right. And then more than like the next step is Being able to assess whether or not they're programs doing the work that they wanted to do. I'll talk about programming all day and you know, that's what people care about. But I feel like what's underneath that is wanting to be able to determine whether or not the program's effective.

Yeah.

And it can be hard when you're dealing with something. It could be hard to navigate that question when you're dealing with the same specificity of running or the specific specificity of an athletic expenditure. Because how do you measure that? There's no way to, you know, there's no way. How do you measure that?

Yeah, that's a fair point. Right. Like, it's hard to say. You doing this step up variation for four weeks is exactly what helps. Like, you can't make that correlation. Right. But at the same time, my, my running clients, they text me whatever, like I hit this mile time pr, like, oh my God, breathing so much easier. These random like benefits that they're experiencing. And when I write programming, it's just really the strength and performance exercises. And I like, if they need to like, hey, say, okay, you're going to run on Monday and Thursday, run like within this mile range, then they got that too. So I'll put that in. But it's really just from, I believe that it's really just from the positional works and modifications that they're doing to their strength stuff and doing exactly what they need. That it's like, well, if we're getting your hips to move to an extent that they weren't moving, it's going to make a change. Right. Stride length is going to change. Stride frequency could potentially increase because now you have this range of motion that you didn't before. And because you're breathing in a different way in a more optimal way now, you don't have to expend as much effort to run the same two miles that you did a month ago.

Oh, for sure. And there's no way, there's no way to pinpoint it in that way. But when you're looking at it through that lens and at least having some type of awareness or intention behind like exactly what you're saying, like this is going to build upon itself. Like, right. This progressive, this progressive overload is going to have a long lasting impact. And then being able to see it and hear those kinds of things from their clients, I think that that's huge. As opposed to, you know, just stretch and feel good into in these two minutes, it's going to have a lasting impact.

It's lasting. Yeah, I think that's the. The most important part about it is that it. It increases your longevity in the sport. It's not that you hit this arbitrary, like age of 65 and then your body doesn't work anymore. You probably haven't been doing the things that help you push past that age and keep running. Like, no problem.

Yes, absolutely. Okay, cool. All right, so for those of you who want to hang out more with you, Romina, how do I. Where should I send them?

A bunch of places. So my website is Skilled Strong co. So F K I L L E D strong co and my Instagram handle is the same. Skilled strong. I'm now on TikTok as of yesterday. Amazing. It's cool. It's so much fun. I have so much inspiration now. Like, I have all these ideas of stuff to make, but I'm also on there. Skilled strong, same handle. And if you want to get in touch, skilled strongmail.com.

Yeah. Okay, great. So we'll link all that in the show. So thanks or in the show notes. So that'll all be linked up for you.

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, thanks so much. It was so fun.

Agreed.

Again, thanks so much for hanging out with us today, coach. If you like this video, please be sure to hit like share this with your friends and let us know down below what your favorite part was or any questions you may have. Don't forget to tap that bell to be notified when the next video comes out and I'll catch you on the next one.

Sam.