The Power of Podcasts and Interviewing with David Stark

You're listening to the PT Profit podcast, episode number 263. Today I'm sitting down with coach David Stark and we are discussing the power of podcasts and interviewing. Are you ready? Let's get started.

Hi, I'm Beverly Simpson, former fitness manager turned online personal training business owner. And this podcast is where smart fitness professionals, including trainers and clinicians, discover how to increase client performance in movement, package and position their products and services and get out of their own way so that they can increase their revenue to live a life that they love without sleazy sales. Welcome to the PT Profit Podcast.

What's up coach? Thank you so much for pushing play on another episode of the PT Profit Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Simpson and today I have a very special, special interview with David Stark, who woke up at 7am LA time to do this interview with me and we discussed all about what it's like to build a podcast from scratch, what he would do if he was starting over, how to grow the podcast and how to bring really powerful athletes and really powerful people to the show so that he can really raise industry standards, raise the bar for the next generation. So he is the host of the Athletes Podcast, he's the head of sales at Expert VR and he's the co founder of Cook Stark Management. We talk about what it's like to, to manage and to be part of all three businesses. And we talk about how he has used his life experience to really build a powerful platform and really deep deepen connection with his guests so that he can really help make high performers people's life better. So without further ado, let's go ahead.

And roll that interview.

What's up, David? Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you doing?

Well, thank you, Beverly. I'm grateful to be on here, excited to chat.

It's going to be an awesome show, so I can't wait to dive in. So for those of you who are tuning in and don't have the pleasure of knowing your work, I'd love for you to share with us a little bit about who you are, who you serve and how you got there.

Absolutely. My name's David Stark. I'm a. I guess you could call myself an entrepreneur now. I am head of sales for Expert VR which is a software simulation developing company. I also host my own podcast, it's called the Athletes Podcast, where I interview professional athletes, coaches, nutritionists, anyone in the health, wellness, performance space. I'm fortunate enough to do that with my girlfriend, my business partner, My producer, she's an amazing human being and she's helped catapult that show. And I also am a co founder of a female athlete sports agency where we are providing the same exposure brands awareness for these female athletes that they deserve. As you guys are well aware, male exposure in sports is exponential and hopefully we're trying to do the same for female sports. So those are my three kind of pillars that I work within and I'm serving basically anyone and everyone within the health, fitness, wellness space, whether you're 8 or 80. Our show is to educate, entertain and inspire the next gen. And I'm hoping to be able to do that over the course of my lifetime.

Okay, amazing. How did you get into that?

Which one?

I know, I mean. Oh my gosh, what a journey. Like, so it sounds like you almost have three businesses. A, how do you manage it all? And B, where did you start with and how did you get there?

Yeah, let's start with the managing aspect. And it's probably comes down to being very deliberate with my time managing that and making sure that I'm optimizing myself, making sure that I'm filling up my cup first. But I also have incredible teammates. I would not be where I am today without the people around me. Like I mentioned my girlfriend with the podcast, she's the producer, she's the editor, she's the marketing. She has her own marketing company, Rise Virtually. I highly recommend people checking out that if there's any marketing exposure that you need. But within the podcast. I started it four years ago, basically almost to the day, and I was sitting in my bedroom after university, wanted to make sure I stayed out of trouble and wanted to still stay within the sport realm. Went for a sport management degree, decided that hey, this was a good opportunity for us to continue educating, entertaining and inspiring that next generation. I had played enough sports in my day, whether it was cricket, volleyball, basketball, golf, you name it, that I basically could chop it up with anyone in the sports world and wanted to create a platform that people could learn from, go to, whether it was parents, children, something that I wish I had when I was growing up, honestly, to be able to get to that next level or maybe to learn that professional sport wasn't as glamorous as we all think it might be. And then as far as Cook Stark Management is concerned, the female athlete agency, I connected with Lander Cook, who had started LDC Talent, which was specifically for women's hockey. Through back and forth conversations, you know, we realized that there's opportunity for all female athletes not just hockey players. So we expanded there. And the one thing I'll say is that it's all part of a journey. By no means, because we have three businesses, does it mean that everything's sunshine and rainbows and that it's all good all the time? These things take time. Patience is key. Did that answer your first question at least?

It did. It did. So what I'm curious about, let me just dive just a little bit deeper, is that, you know, female, female representation in sports is a huge take on. And it matters. Clearly, as someone who identifies as female, and I'm curious how you got there, how did that, how, you know, what inspired you to be, you know, to help increase representation for female athletes?

Yeah. On the athletes podcast, we featured almost 190 athletes today. We just released our 188th episode. So through those conversations, I really realized that these women were not getting the same access to brands, to marketing deals, to On Ice Time. Frankly, just any aspect, everything was significantly less than what males were receiving. And just in those conversations on the podcast, I realized that the platform that I'm building is able to provide that exposure to those female athletes. So that was number one, and number two is that, you know, we've made all these connections. We've got people reaching out with respect to sponsoring the podcast, wanting to get on, and it's like, hey, we've got these connections. We've built this. Why don't we provide this to female athletes? Because they deserve it. So just to recognizing the fact that the writing was on the wall, women's sports is obviously scaling rapidly. And I wanted to make sure that I did my part and we did our part as far as being able to provide them with as much we could.

That's powerful. So it's clear that the show that you have been running now, you said four years, right? Four years, yeah. Has a huge, massive impact, which is amazing. I love podcasting. Podcasting is, is one of my favorite things. Clearly we're here. So I'm curious, in your opinion, if you were speaking to someone who was new, brand new to podcasting and was just about to start their own show and had all these feelings of, oh my gosh, who's going to listen? There's so many podcasts out there. How do I separate myself from the other podcasts that are out there? What are some of the starting recommendations that you would share to someone who's about to start a podcast?

I would make sure you want to do it. Make sure that you really love podcasting. Like that you really love talking, that you're really interested in a subject, that you really want to converse on a weekly, bi weekly, monthly basis. Whatever that cadence is that you're going to use, stick to it. Ensure that you are committed to the fact that you might only have 5, 10, 15 listeners in your first 50 episodes. Like, there's podcasts out there that if you're doing it on your own, if you're doing it with someone else, unless you already have a brand or an a media outlet or a flywheel built that you have in your system, it is going to be a slow process. I don't want to say that the podcast space is saturated, but there are so many things right now in life that take people's attention. And getting someone to sit down for 45 minutes or an hour is a difficult thing to do. Now, someone listening, they can ride along in their car, whatever, that's great. But depending on the format of your show, if you're trying to interview people like this or like my show, that is not an easy thing to do. And if you're trying to get athletes, for instance, to come sit down for an hour, that's an even harder demographic to reach out to. So understand why you're doing it, who you're doing it for, what your end goal is. If you don't have an end goal, that's okay. If you just want to chat, that's fine. But just put together a bit of a game plan. And I would say more than anything, just start if it's something you want to do. There's low barriers to entry. Buy a decent mic, because as you progress, you're going to want to, you know, have higher sound quality. Figure out whether you're using Zoom Riverside as your recording space, but just start. That's. That's the biggest piece of advice there.

Okay, cool. So the other thing, you know, since as we're talking about your show, right. We've also now seen this trend to, if you've been paying attention at all, and I don't mean you, David, I know clearly you are listener. If you're listening and you've been paying attention, there's been this move to. For YouTube, which has traditionally been a video, a video goo. Video search engine platform. And they're really going after podcasting, it seems like. So if you are just starting your show or, or you're in your show, do you recommend putting your show on YouTube 100% there.

I know there's still podcasts out there that are only audio and it's to me, we're already having this conversation on zoom. Why not record that, chop it up and put that on YouTube? It's again, I get it. If bandwidth is a thing and you're not able to create the video and make sure it looks polished to the degree that you want. Totally understand not putting it out there, but in my opinion, every podcast should be put onto YouTube as well. There's no reason why you can't do both. And it's going to give you so much exposure. YouTube's what, the second largest search engine out there and it'd be crazy to. That'd be like leaving your social media shorts off of TikTok and just putting them on YouTube and Instagram. That's the exact same equivalent, kind of in my mind, totally.

I think a lot of the reservations that have been out there regarding using, putting the podcast on YouTube is that traditionally users and audience members are not used to listening to a podcast on YouTube. So how do you recommend someone repurpose their content so that it's both effective for both platforms?

Yeah, I'm going to give this advice and say this with a caveat because our YouTube is still growing just like the podcast is. By no means are we perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but ensuring those first five, ten minutes have some intro graphics that hook the listener's attention, the viewer's attention in the, in YouTube's regard, making sure that you're incorporating different, maybe scenes or scripted pieces into that content. That's something that I'm considering playing around with too. 60 seconds with Stark kind of thing where you can make it fun, exciting, a little bit different. It can be a long 45 minute conversation. If the person that you're interviewing isn't exciting for someone to sit down and watch on YouTube so you know, where you can dance around, do a little bit, make it, make sure it's engaging in that aspect goes a long way for YouTube. But don't overthink it. It's just like putting a podcast out there, right? Like you just, hey, this is now something that you have access to. I'm trying to help in my case, educate, entertain and inspire that next gen. If you're going to come on here and listen to it, that's amazing. I really appreciate you consuming the content, but by no means am I forcing people to watch it. It's just a platform that's out there that we're able to provide additional resources to.

I love that. All right, so now going back to, you know, starting the pieces, piece of content or starting the show itself when you were. Well, I'm gonna ask that next. Let me start here. You know, now you've got your piece, you've, you've created the episodes, you've now really dived into your consistency, cadence. What are some of the ways you recommend growing your show?

You gotta listen to your audience. I think you have to ensure that you stay true to what you originally were looking to do. In my case, you know, interviewing professional athletes, showcasing the benefits, the pros, the cons, the ups, the downs, making sure that you continue to uplevel the guests that you're bringing on. Find out who would be an interesting guest to bring on, who you're audience would like to hear from, asking them questions. I think again, I'm still working on growing the podcast. I know that paid media is definitely where people can acquire quickly. I've gone the organic route. We are really trying to make sure that we grow this in the most sustainable way possible and that people really realize we're in it for the long haul. I say this is four years, we're probably going to be doing it for the next 40 or 50, however long I'm alive. And I think for me it's making sure that you're serving that community that you've built. And you asked about it at the beginning and who do you serve and if, if ultimately, if you're able to help one person on every episode, then eventually when you get to 260 plus episodes like yourself, you're gonna be hanging out and you're gonna have at least 260 listeners. And then to your point, you're Gonna have over $500,000 in annual revenue from that. Because I listened to your previous episode and you figured out a way to do that, right? Like you only need 2,000 followers to be able to get to that $500,000 number, right? Or whatever the case may be. So making sure you stay true to who you serve and have fun along the way.

Yeah, that's amazing. So for me, right when I'm talking about, you know, for my context, for those of you who are new and didn't hear that, that episode that David's referring to is that there is an invisible comp to audience building. And for me, why I love meaning that people can only see how many followers you have. And that is not a direct reflection of who's listening to your show, how many people are, are on your email list. There are just so many other invisible components. Which is why I love podcasting, to be honest, because it's my opportunity to have one conversation with one person. It's just. And I can create that feeling, but that one person will multiply for me at least. Right. So it's part of the reason why I love it.

And that doesn't happen often in our society anymore where you can sit down with someone for 45 minutes or an hour and chat one on one and learn about who they are, what makes them tick. I revert back to interviewing Mitchell Hooper, who's the world's strongest man up in Barry, a couple months ago, and I'm like, you know, I'm a mid-20s guy with a sport management degree. Like, who the heck gave me the ability to interview these incredible professional athletes on the world stage? And it's consistency, it's the power of compounding, and it's, hey, I'm a curious individual who wants to learn how you got there. And, you know, you, you, you don't get those opportunities often now to sit down with someone like this for 45 minutes. And I'm grateful to be able to do it with you today. And I'm grateful also to be able to do it a weekly basis with my show.

I love it. So good. So now I'm curious, you know, how do you, how did you practice the skill of interviewing, especially when you were interviewing people that may, you know, that might feel a little intimidating. I know for me, I've had guests on my show where I've lost sleep at night being like, make sure I ask the right questions here.

Yeah. Well, you even a guy who you've had on your show, Andrew Coates, I just interviewed recently and I was nervous ahead of that one. We showed up at his house in Edmonton, recorded the interview. I'm always critical of myself afterwards, no matter how the conversation goes. I'm. That's just the kind of person I am. I'm working on that. But it is, it's not easy. I think you gotta practice. I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation like this if it hadn't been for the 188 previous episodes that we'd done on the podcast. You always are never going to be good when you start something, but just like working out, just like podcasting, just like anything in life, the more you do it, you're probably going to get a little bit better every time. And I think listening for me has been key as well. Sorry if you can hear the birds in the background, but I'm an avid listener of a couple different podcasts. I probably, despite putting out a podcast Once a week I probably listen to five to 10, maybe even 15 hours of podcasts a week. So my ratio of talking versus listening is significantly in favor of the listening aspect. And I think that allows me to hopefully articulate my thoughts well and interview properly. Because I've heard how people ask questions, what the best ways are and ultimately how to just shut up and listen.

Which is one of those things people double tap on Instagram, but they're not really listening and don't even realize it.

So true. Hey, it's pros and cons of social media in this day and age, right. Our attention spans are short. You know, not many people are able to sit down for a 45 minute conversation and listen into the entire thing through, through and through. So hey, maybe that's a skill that you and I will have for the long run and it'll benefit, benefit us tremendously. Right?

Amen. So true. Okay, so I'd love for you to share a little bit about, about speaking of listening and speaking about, you know, interviewing high level, high level professionals and asking the right questions. For me, when I started my show, I started because I wanted, it was almost like self search. I want, like me, search me, research. I wanted to ask questions that, that I knew were going to help and benefit not only me, but the community I wanted to pull in. Right. And so I'm curious for you, how did you begin the process of connecting with high level professionals and asking them to be on the show? Like what was some of your process when you're brand new to figuring it out, to bringing people on your show?

Yeah, that's probably the most asked question now is how do you get all these crazy people on your podcast? And if you go back and look at the first 20 episodes, they're university students who are playing sports. They're, you know, maybe people who I had within my network in Niagara. A couple things happened. I again first 10, whether it was profs, students, athletes, whoever I could get my hands on who was willing to chat. Some incredible athletes actually during that time. But after episode 30, something Covid hit. So we went from a local Niagara based podcast to I have access to everyone across the globe now with the power of the Internet. So that expanded my ability to outreach to individuals from you know, 150 kilometer radius to now global. That span probably, well, whatever the length of COVID was, two years. I see there's a new variant coming out, who the heck knows now, but that basically catapulted, opened up the doors to say, hey, I can access Anyone now, theoretically. And then I realized that everyone's accessible to some degree and you need to identify who you're connecting with, who you're reaching out to, why you're reaching out to them, if you can give them a good reason, if you can provide them with some personal messaging. Professional athletes are bombarded with DMs every single day of the week. If you can stand out somehow by sending them something slightly unique or, you know, some stats from their previous years, whatever the case may be, you can be creative in that sense and you can get their attention. I think it's also being relentless and being okay with sending a hundred emails and getting two or three replies. I also started a sales job at Clearco, which is a Fintech firm. Episode 5075 or something. Learned a lot about sales, outbound messaging, how to connect there. So again, these like layers of intelligence were added in or knowledge, I guess I should say, over time and then realizing that, you know, now with 188 episodes having featured guests, athletes from the MLB, NHL, NBA, World's Strongest Man, Olympians, gold medalists, like, there's no one that theoretically I can't connect with now at this point. So again, wouldn't be able to reach out to a Mitchell Hooper or a Benjamin St. Jude from the Washington Commanders after episode 20. But once you have a brand built, once you've established yourself as an authority within the space, after 100, 150 episodes, people know you're not going away and they realize, hey, this might be a cool opportunity to talk to Dave in this case or Beverly in this case, and they might benefit from additional exposure on the podcast and they might learn a thing or two and they might be able to help educate that next gen. And then when they have a kid come up to them at their game that said, oh, I listened to you on the athletes podcast, that was so cool. That makes their day, right? So making sure that you have a real reason for doing what you're doing in this case with the podcast and having a, a good long term goal has allowed me to gain access to some incredible individuals.

I love that. Now in your opinion, what would you say is the core differences between your show as an example, and then, you know, a radio, a radio spot or, or a radio show?

Yeah, I mean, what are they, five 10 minute segments max? You find out what their workout is, where they grew up and maybe like the facts that they want shared. Yeah, like it's, it's an ad read, it's a mid roll, it's, you know, It's PR for them at the lowest form. I mean, you look at why podcasts like Joe Rogan's has been so successful and why he can jump on with Post Malone for five plus hours. I mean, they might have been doing some DMT or shrooms on the show, but either way, it's like this isn't a, a platform now that people have the ability to share their entire story, not just a 10 minute glimpse into the life. It's, hey, how did you grow up? Where did you grow up? Who instilled this into you? Why is this something that still sticks with you? How have you been able to overcome all of these challenges? You can't do that in a five minute segment. Right. But you can probably do it in an hour.

Yeah. So good and powerful. What about, you know, sports commentary shows? Like, would you say that yours, your show is different in that regard as well?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, like a Skip Bayless or a Canon Sharpe. Yeah, I know exactly what you're thinking. And hey, espn, the big moguls, like, they're, they're there for a reason. They've got millions, billions of dollars in contracts. We were just having this conversation yesterday, actually with a colleague who used to work at the NFL Network. And as great as those conglomerates are and they provide viewers on tv, people's attention are on social media now. So despite being on ESPN and despite getting that insane exposure, if you did that same thing with the same production value on TikTok, you might get more views, you might have more people seeing who you are. So again, the Skip Baylesses, they ask you, the got you questions, they ask you like they're trying to stir up stuff. And it's very different than what I'm trying to accomplish on the athletes podcast when I, you know, I mentioned it before, but it's educating, entertaining and inspiring. That next gen, we can have fun, we can, you know, joke around. But I'm not trying to sewer a guy to say what his head coach did and why he shouldn't be there or, you know, there's, there's those differences that I think make us unique in that aspect and allow players to share who they are. I mean, I look at a David Letterman as a real, like, inspiration because, you know, his Netflix show with a guy like Kevin Durant, for instance, he's learning about why Kevin Durant is showing up on the set high like, and why marijuana is important to him and why he's trying to make moves and the NBA for that and why a guy like Ricky Williams in the NFL was suspended, lost hundreds of millions of dollars potentially like because of marijuana. So like those areas where there's, there's a need for more discourse like you, you don't get all of that information from a 60 second segment from Skip. Again, I really like that's the difference I think in allowing people to really share their true story is, is something that what we have the ability to do with a small production team of two people is we're never going to be swamped with crazy overhead costs of productions, of salaries of script writers. Like it's me and my gal, right? And I think that's what also makes us unique. We're willing to travel wherever, record wherever. We've recorded on the side of a mountain in Utah. And you know, I'm doing this podcast in la, we've been traveling for the past year. So I think that's what also makes it unique is the fact that we, you can do it in the comfort of your own home. Like Andrew Coates.

Yeah, it's true. So you know, one of the things that I'll share, you know, side note, I guess is when I'm listening to athletes or champions, I'll say people who, people who are experts and authorities in their fields, it's very empowering to listen to how they perceive their challenges as well as their success successes. Because the inner game of an athlete, an inner game of a high achieving professional is just one of the things I think is essential that not a lot of people talk about. It's either like woo spiritual, like let it flow and then, or it's like super high drive. There's no like in between. And so I'm curious for you and in your perspective, what are some of the biggest, I guess lessons or biggest in shares and insights that champions and athletes, professional athletes have shared with you that have had the greatest impact on you.

I think you got to know what works for you. And if you are that super regimented person that has to wake up at six, have their water for an hour and a half before they drink their coffee because they listen to Andrew Huberman like, then that's what you've got to do. If you're like me and you have to put your nasal strips on and then mouth tape at night so that you get a good sleep, like that's what you got to do. I think I would. It would be difficult for me to try and share all of the lessons that I've learned from 190 conversations. But what I will say is that I'VE learned that each and every person is unique in their own respect and they can achieve whatever they want to achieve if they A, put their mind to it, B, figure out exactly how they're going to get there, whether that's reverse engineering, seeing how someone else did it, and three, like visualizing. That is the power of visualization I've never really been able to wrap my head around. We have featured a guy, Aaron Volpatti, on the Athletes podcast who was a former Vancouver Canuck, Washington capital, had third degree burns on 40% of his body after a high school party, hockey party, and within two and a half months was back skating on the ice. Yeah, just. And that's one of the couple different visualization stories. Rhonda raisich, who's the US's most decorated racquetball player ever, she. Yeah, there's been some crazy stories, but I think more, more than anything, the lesson I've learned is that if you're, if you want to do something and you set your mind to it and you're willing to suck and you're willing to be down and, you know, question maybe at times why you're doing this, but you're able to stick to it, you can achieve whatever you want to achieve. And I know that sounds corny, cliche, but it's so true. And I look back at like when I started this in my bedroom in August, September of 2019, it's like I, I want to be interviewing the world's best athletes and helping the next generation. And fast forward four years, we're, we're well on our way to doing that.

So when you speak of the next generation, do you mean next generation of athletes, Next generation of sports managers? And like, what, how specifically do you mean the next generation?

It's a great question. And I think originally it was the next generation of athletes. But I've realized that the lessons that we're sharing on the show can be adopted by anyone. My mom and dad who listen every week are learning things that they're applying in their life. And then my cousin, who's 16 years old playing WHL hockey, is learning things that he can apply in his life. So when I say being able to inspire, educate, and entertain that next gen, that was the starting point because I wanted to create a platform that I wish I had access to as a kid growing up. And over the past four years, I've realized that it's not just athletes that can be applying these lessons and skills. It's every single human being. Because we're all high performers. At the end of the day, every human being is and needs to know what makes their body work well so that they can perform at their best. Whether they're working, whether they're playing sports, whether they're in a relationship, and whether they're trying to reestablish relationships. Like we're all human beings, at the end of the day, we're all looking to achieve great things, likely in one way, shape or form. And the only way you're going to do that is if you're making your body feel at a hundred percent. And whether that's working out, whether that's mindfulness, whatever you're putting into your body, even all of those things are factors. And I think at the end of the day, we're all athletes in some respect. So it started with athletes, it still is athletes. But I will say that everyone's an athlete. So I'm trying to help everyone.

I love that everyone's an athlete or has an athletic component. Component to some extent, whether it's trying to be high achievers in their career, in their life, in their relationships, or not really the end of the day, optimal performances for me. Yeah, got it. Cool. I love that. So, to your point, and what I keep hearing a lot in. In your response is, is this. And you didn't say this word, so I'll just tell you, this is my perception, is this component of consistency and discipline, which requires discipline. I'll say. Right. So what I'm always wondering about is the nuances and finding the balance for you. You said earlier in the show, you gotta find what works for you. So I'm curious, how did you know that you found that this worked for you when you were also dealing with those, you know, I don't want, I don't feel like doing it there. I don't feel. I'm not motivated. Right. How did you know what needed your discipline versus it isn't for you?

I such a good question. Early on, I knew that if I put out one episode a week, that I'd be putting out 52 episodes a year and that, you know, we'd be hitting these marks that are kind of almost required. Like it's such a good question. I'm. The discipline aspect for me, has never really been difficult. Almost, I want to say, because I know the benefits after and I know how good I'll feel after doing something, whether it's a workout, whether it's a podcast, you know, there's that sense of reward after doing something difficult, not to say Having a conversation is difficult, but the preparation, people don't realize the work that goes in behind the scenes. And you see all these graphs on LinkedIn and Twitter about discipline versus motivation and how you should be applying discipline. And you're only going to work when you're, you're not always going to work when you're motivated, but you will if you're disciplined. And like, I, I think it goes back to knowing what works for you. Like, I know that if I do my full time job from 9 to 5 Eastern Standard Time, 6 to 2 PST right now, in this case, that afterwards I have more hours in my day to send more emails to get potential guests on the podcast. And I know that I'll have more time to go for a walk with my girlfriend after my workday so that I'll be able to get my brain juices flowing and then it'll allow me to go do more work. Like, I don't know if I'm answering this question properly, but I think for me it was, I, I've been motivated and I think this is actually the key. I've been motivated because I wasn't doing it for myself anymore. I realized that I'm doing it for that next gen now. And what maybe started similar to you in that selfish way of, hey, I want to know what it is, how to get to that next level, how to be that professional athlete. And I realized, like, hey, I'm not doing this for me anymore. I'm doing this for everyone else who's consuming it. And now I can't stop now because there's people counting on me. Right?

Oh my gosh, that is so powerful. And people underestimate the importance of being connected to a deeper purpose. It's not one of those things that you double tap and like, yeah, I'm here to say save the world. No, no, no. It has to be rooted in something real. Otherwise you won't show up for yourself and for others.

Yeah. And it's, there's a, there's a difference. And people who have gone through it and have experienced it know that intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation are two very different things. And it allows you to be disciplined and to realize, hey, like, what I'm doing is powerful and it's going to impact people in a positive fashion. So despite me maybe not wanting to do this in the moment, it will be worth it in the long run.

Yeah, I'm a mom, so I definitely get that. I know what that's like. Like, there are days where I'M like.

How old are your kids?

They are eight and six. Well, one's about to be eight.

So are they playing sports?

Yes.

Are they in right now?

We started with softball, but that was a lot of hurry up and wait.

Yeah.

So that did not go very well. We tried two seasons, but now we're going to move to soccer.

Okay, okay, okay.

I have a theater background, so they want to do dance.

Have you considered tossing them into either swimming or gymnastics?

So they're cheerleaders as well.

Okay, there we go.

Is gymnastics. And we're. It's summer here in New York and so they're in camp. So they're swimming. As you know, in their camp they're doing a ton of swimming. But in terms of swimming as a sport, specifically. No, not yet.

No, that's okay. No, no, screw swimming as a sport. I'm not good at it either. But having the ability to swim is definitely an important life saving skill. And I'm just a huge advocate for those sports that provide kids the dexterity, the strength, the mobility. Like, I, I wish I had stuck to it when I was younger. My parents had me in gymnastics for a year or something, dance for a bit. I was not good at either. But in hindsight I'm like, those are incredible skills to have and if you can continue to possess those abilities growing up, it will far exceed any of your other work. So that's just my two cents there.

So it's actually really amazing. And I can't believe that you brought that up, to be honest. I can't believe that you bring this up because it's actually one of the root causes of why I asked that question about motivation and discipline. Because when I was a kid, I also was in dance. And I constantly will say to my parents, and I love them, but I wish that they had maybe pushed me just a little bit harder to stay disciplined because I wish I had stayed in the sport. I wish I had stayed in the activity. And so for me as a parent now, navigating the nuances of like, hey, is this really not for you? Or maybe we need to be just a little bit more disciplined. It's something that, it's constantly on my mind, which is why I asked you that question.

I, it's, it's funny how things work out that way. I, I mean, I don't have kids, so I'm, I don't want to be giving unsolicited advice here, but I think whether it's rock climbing, swimming, gymnastics, like those sports that provide a variety of like, requirements, I guess, is the best way. It's cardiovascular, it's strength, it's resistance training. Like, those are things that are essential as a young athlete and they will pay dividends in softball, in hockey, in soccer, down the road. And people, Kids don't necessarily realize the, the benefits. And I just see so many of the youth now specializing at such a young age, and it's scary because I, I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that they're likely going to have those injuries that occur from overuse, from over training. And when their kids are starting hockey at six years old and playing for the next decade and not playing any other sports, and they're constantly hitting a slap shot with their right hand down, and it's like those are imbalances that are going to show up in your body. And yeah, that's. Again, I don't know where I was going with that, but I just wanted to make sure people know the benefits.

Well, honestly, now you're bringing up like, that's another reason why I have been hesitant about putting them in swimming, because the repetitive notion or the repetitive patterning at such a young age is concerning for me. I want to make sure that we're not specializing too soon for that reason.

Camp's perfect then, right? You're doing what you should be doing.

I hope so. I mean, listen, we're all just trying to do the best that we possibly can. And that's what I also remind my parents of. Like, hey, you are doing the best that you can with the resources you had at the time. There's no, it's no criticism, but it's definitely something on my mind, I'll tell you that.

And I just. Because you're bringing up your parents, I need to make sure my parents know how grateful I am for what they did for me growing up. I, you know, they put me in French immersion, and I didn't realize how beneficial that would be down the road. Having a second language again, gymnastics, dance, like those things that I hated as a kid. I'm like, why do I have to go do this, whatever the case may be? And it was like, you know, they, they knew what they were doing. And again, to your point, everyone's trying to figure it out. And it's not like our parents were handed a handbook when we were born that said, hey, here's how to parent. It's like everyone's trying to figure it out.

And I'll take that handbook, please.

I'm actually, yeah, my, my mom and I were writing a book around how to succeed in university and I think there's a need for those kind of. It's not self help, it's just, hey, this, these are ways that you can be the ways that you can benefit yourself in the long run and put yourself in the position to succeed. Put it that way.

Well, and then it just comes for full circle. Which again, comes back to why we've created these shows, why these resources are now available, because it's really about access to resources and support. So many people are going through life, parenting, you know, high performing business, feeling like they're alone, when the truth of the matter is that what is most personal is often most general. So likely what you're going through, someone else in the world is also going through something similar.

Yeah, I need to remind myself of that too.

Yes, me too. Right. Set it for, set it for me as well. So, you know, and I'll just share from my perspective. One of the things that I've been doing regarding my children and navigating this is, is conversation and listening. Again, it goes back to, you know, what we talked about earlier is that I, when my children are telling me like, hey, it's time to go. And they're like, oh, I don't want to. Versus on Saturday before we were about to start the week. And they're like, listen, mom, softball's boring. That's a different conversation than like, I don't want to go to practice, you know?

Yeah. And I mean that's. It goes back to knowing, hey, what motivates them is like, okay, hey, do we make sure that there's an orange juice or an apple juice in the car to incentivize them to get into the car to go to softball? Or hey, is it. You're not going to be able to get that ice cream after softball if you don't go to softball, like finding those, I guess, happy mediums where you can still get the job done. I mean, we need, we do this as adults too, right? Like, I can't eat that Dairy Queen, like Blizzard if I don't go work out. And like Andrew Coates, a perfect example, once per week he goes, gets a large Dairy Queen Blizzard and that's his cheat meal for the week or his cheat thing. Like, but that way he knows if he stays disciplined for those six other days during the week, then that's his reward. Right. And if you can figure out ways to instill that at a young age, those kids are going to be laughing when they get to their 20s.

And 30s, you know, that's. That's the goal. That is definitely. I mean, that's the goal, right? So for me, I want to make sure that I'm mindful of your time. So my last question is, you know, what would. It's gonna be? It's gonna be one of those, like, weird ones. But what is one thing that you wished more people ask you about that you can share with us today?

Interesting question. To wrap up, what is one thing people asked I wish people asked me more about? It would have to come down to how they can be the healthiest version of themselves, because people don't. And I'll take this quote from Callum Cowan, and I'll probably butcher it. But it goes something along the lines of, like, people don't know how good they're supposed to feel until they feel that way. So whether you're getting or you haven't gotten your blood work done, or whether you've consistently drank alcohol for the past 20, 30, 40 years of your life or whether you're consuming any other substances, understanding that if you put good food, good sources of nutrients into your body, you can feel exponentially better. I think people underestimate how good they can truly feel and what that will turn into in work, in professional, in personal lives, in relationships. And I think that's the biggest takeaway that you can do a heck of a lot more than what you're doing right now if you're willing to make some sacrifices in the short term.

The I'm fine coma, it's so powerful. Okay, so for those of you who loved the show, want to connect more with you and listen to your show, what are some of the best places that I can send them? Where are some of the best places I can send them?

Yeah, I'm trying to be as active as I can on Instagram. Davestark onecast.com Our website, or the athletes pod or the athletes podcast on all social media platforms. Trying to stick to Twitter, but Elon's having some fun over there. Who knows what's happening? X, I guess now. Crap. And yeah, what else? TikTok. We're trying YouTuber. Yeah, I'd actually appreciate anyone who wants to listen heading over to YouTube, hitting that subscribe button there. We're trying to be more diligent there. We have an athlete agreement. I don't know if you've heard about it. We don't actually charge for people to come on the show, but we just ask. They hit that subscribe button so that it helps get it out to the word. To more people. I really appreciate your time as well, Beverly. What you're doing is amazing. I think that the world needs more people like ourselves sharing these podcasts and these important conversations, and I just want to make sure you know that you're doing an incredible job, and you got to keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you. I appreciate it. It's been amazing. Okay, wait. I know I said last question, but I just. You said your last name, and I have to ask, are you a Marvel fan?

Yeah, I'm not a huge movie guy. It's funny you ask, because my Uncle Tony. No, it's between Game of Thrones and Iron Man. I do get a couple of those questions for sure. It's. I don't actually watch a heck of a lot of tv, so I get asked. That's my witty comeback. It's either Iron man or Game of Thrones, but after that, people. People lose it. But I am a Robert Downey Jr. Fan. I do resonate with Iron Man. I have worn the Iron Man Under Armour shirt as a costume one year for Halloween. So. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.

You know what? I don't watch TV really either, but my husband loves Marvel, so we are. Actually, D.C. is kind of his jam, but we do watch. I do enjoy the Marvel shows, so.

Hey, well, you let him know if he needs a suit. I'll see what I can do.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks so much, David. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Beverly. You as well. Hope you have a great rest of your day.

Same.

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