Advising a Young Entrepreneur and Gamiotics Check in

The Small business show episode 334 for Wednesday, June 28, 2021. Greetings folks, and welcome to. Welcome back to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow. Co here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in Lafayette, California, I am Shannon Jean. How goes it out there, man?

It goes. Things are, you know, opening and like, I went to a concert the other night.

That's exciting.

Actually, I've been to two concerts. Both have been socially distanced so far, but. But, you know, like the next one, I don't think the next one is. And I'm okay with that. Like, it, like I'm. Yeah, yeah. I. It took me a little bit to, you know, sort of land out of this pandemic mode. Right. But it makes sense, right?

Ye.

Yeah. You get used to these habits and then it's like, oh, wow, there's people really close to me. I haven't experienced that in a while. Is that okay? Sort of had to logically walk through the metric or the litmus test that I put it against. Is, was driving here more dangerous than whatever it is I'm doing while I'm here? And most of the time the answer is yes. The drive over, given the vaccinations and everything else, it's like, yeah, the drive was definitely the most dangerous thing. So. Okay, yep, time to roll. Yep. It doesn't mean it's no such thing as zero danger.

No, we.

We can't.

We don't want that.

We don't want that. That's right. Yeah.

So I don't think, especially as entrepreneurs, you know, I think we also kind of look at from the outside and go, man, you know, we gotta be careful not to embrace safety too much.

Too much, right?

Yeah, yeah. Because you want to have some, but.

Yeah, you don't want to have total risk aversion.

You can do a screeching halt, right?

Yeah. Well, we saw what, what screeching halt happens. And I mean it, you know, as, as certainly, as I was saying at the begin, it, you know, I hope we look back on this and say we overreacted as opposed to underreacted. I think we're somewhere in between the appropriate to overreaction range. We will never truly know the answer to that because we don't. We didn't take a clone of planet Earth and, and put it somewhere else as a control.

There is no control.

Right.

Yeah. Yep. So we don't know, but it certainly seems like that. I mean, we could have done some things better. We could have done a Lot of things worse, I think. But, you know, it's working. What we did is getting us, you know, opening things back up and that's.

I agree. So, yeah. And you know, speaking of working, I'm excited. Today we're going to have a check in from one of our former guests that's in the performance space, Dave Carpenter, that has a business that's all about the gamification of storytelling. And, you know, we connected with David last year in April, and as things were, I can't recall, maybe I don't, hopefully never will, how, what stage, how bad things were at certain points, but certainly I didn't know that it would last as long as it did. And so it's great. I'm looking forward to talking with him and hearing how he's pivoted his company and really thrived during the pandemic with something that he kind of dug out of his talent stack and made it something special.

Yeah, no, it's, it's really interesting. There's been a lot of silver linings to this. I. Yeah. And it, the interesting ones to me are the ones in the industries that were hit the hardest, the service industry, the performance industry. Like, those have been very, very good to see. So, yeah, I'm.

Yeah, it's cool.

I'm eager to hear from him. But first we've, we've actually got a question of yours to answer. Not yours, Shannon, yours. You, our listening audience. FeedbackusinessShow Co is where you send in your questions and that's where this one came from.

Yeah, we didn't get get to this one before, so we want to be sure we touch base and answer Kelly's question. And Kelly writes, my daughter wants to be an entrepreneur. We don't have anyone in our family that has owned a business before. And I don't know what to tell her other than it scares the heck out of me that she doesn't want to get a, quote, normal job. Do you have any suggestions on how I can help her as a parent or does she just need to fumble through this on her own? Thank you. And thank you, Kelly. She sent that into feedbackusinessshow. Co. And I'm interested in your take on it, Dave. And you know, I have some.

Yeah, go ahead. I mean, this is a great question because it's.

Yeah.

You hear about first generation college students, you know, people that go to college as the first ones in their family to ever do that. This is a question about a first generation entrepreneur. And so I'm. Yeah.

And I think you And I have an interesting take on it because our kids are, are, are both at close in age that where they're going out doing their own things. And I have, you know, certain thoughts on, on that. And, and I think the most important thing that I would tell Kelly right now is don't be afraid. And you know, we, we, one of our best quotes we ever had from a guest on the show that we bring up all the time is don't make fear based decisions. And this is another case of that. You know, the thing about, with your daughter, there's never been a better time to take risks and then to try new things than today when she's young. And also to recognize, you know, Kelly obviously wants to support her and is reaching out to get some feedback from a couple of guys that are, you know, we consider ourselves patently unemployable because we've never had worked for somebody for so long and just couldn't, couldn't think about it.

Yeah, it means we're jackasses is really what that means. No, it's just in some ways, yeah, it's true. It means we're impatient. And I think that's the, you know, if you're looking at this for someone you care about, your child, your spouse, you know, someone close to you, recognize that impatience because that's a common quality in many, I don't want to say all entrepreneurs, right. But look at that impatience is there, are there is your daughter frustrated by inefficiencies in life? I can do it better, I can do it better or why don't they do it better? And that's advice for someone who wants to be an entrepreneur. Listen to yourself when you say because no one else, rarely are you going to be fortunate like me and have someone else give you ideas for the businesses that are actually going to work out. That's been the story of my career. Any ideas I've come up with have failed spectacularly. Some ideas that other people have come up with have also failed spectacularly. But the ones that have succeeded have been other people's ideas. But I get lots of ideas, right? And so the trick is listen to those ideas, but really try and listen to yourself. And when you hear yourself saying, I could do this better or why don't they do this better? If only they made this change and that change and that change, this would be so much better. That's the beginning of your business, right? And that is sort of how backbeat media started. So I'll take a little bit of the credit for that, but, but not really because I didn't notice it at the time. But that, that's the idea is, you know, when you have that, that spark of man, this could be so much better. That might be your business like that. That could be it. Because you're passionate about it, you're thinking about it, you have a natural sort of mindset that applies to it. You know, listen to yourself.

Yeah. So, and I think that, you know, don't be afraid. I also think it's great that you're reaching out, like I said, and being supportive is, you know, really a key aspect of your daughter's development as an entrepreneur, getting that support from her parents. But I would encourage you as a parent to kind of focus your support on actions, not on ideas. Because if you've listened to previous shows here, where we always talk about, you know, actions are just so much more powerful than ideas is you want to encourage your daughter to take those actions, whether how small they may be. But you know, what, what is happening daily, weekly, monthly to get her towards that. Becoming an entrepreneur and finding success.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I would also, I would recommend check out Score. Oh yeah, they've got, I mean they have a mentoring program there that, that eventually will be appropriate and it might be already, but they've got classes and just meetups that you can do. It's really important to find other entrepreneurs to talk with and especially if you don't have one in the family, not being able to share those ideas with people that are experiencing the same thing or have experienced the same thing can really be limiting. And the flip side, of course, is that sharing with people that have been through it all, they can really help you move forward. So check out Score. We'll put a link in the show.

Notes, but it's just score.org yeah, that support is. Or finding someone with experience is just such a great piece of advice. Dave. I was driving up to our river house last week with my son and it's like a four hour drive and we're just talking back and forth and each time he would come up, well, this is an interesting business. This is an interesting way to make a living. And I said each time I go, oh yeah, I know so and so I could introduce you to her and she would love to, you know, sit down with you for an hour or two and talk about real estate investing or talk about finance or whatever. So use those resources in your life, your friends, you know, extended family members or whatever, because everyone wants to help young people and it's a great resource that I'm sure you have at your fingertips.

Yep, yep.

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. The other thing I think we talk about on the show all the time is making mistakes and failing. You know, like I said, never a better time to take risk than when you're young and under, unencumbered. You know, I remember everything I owned fit in the back of my truck. And if you made a mistake or you failed, it really wasn't going to be that big of an impact. That's normal. And to be a successful entrepreneur, it's that embracing of, you know, I'm going to break things, I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to fail at some things, but I'm going to continually build up my talent stack, and over time, I'm going to get better. And, you know, you as a parent need to be aware of that too, because it's going to happen. But I think it's good to encourage your kid and at least talk to them about that, that, hey, it's okay, and that you're going to make these mistakes.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. It. Yeah. Just the freedom. The fact that you're even asking us this question shows that you're giving your daughter support. So many families, I mean, you know, they can be. You acknowledge that it's petrifying, but you're sort of compartmentalizing that concern appropriately, I think. And while still supporting your daughter, moving down this path, so many people will be like, don't do that. You know, it's risky. You could fail. You know, the flip side of that is you could succeed.

Whereas that's Right. And when is it ever going to be a better time to take these risks than now?

It's always right. The best time to take the risk was yesterday, except he didn't. So today is the second best today. Yeah.

Yeah, it's great. For sure. And. And, you know, like, you're asking us questions. I really would encourage your daughter to ask lots of questions from everyone. Whether you get connected with SCORE or whether it's chamber of commerce or whether you, you know, get introduced to someone or just walking around. I mean, whenever I go into a business, I look around and I start to think, how does this place work? You know, And. And I was. I was up in Tahoe not too long ago, and there we went to this wine kind of wine bar where you tried different. Different wines. It wasn't a winery. He was just on the lake. You try different things, food. And I was so impressed. And. And I Always look around going, okay, who's who? Where's the owner? You know, and I, and I saw this kind of husband and wife team and I, I just walked out, hey, do you guys own this? And yeah. And yeah, I just started asking questions. How does work? Great concept. We've had such a great afternoon here. Da, da, da. You know, everyone loves to talk about themselves and their business if they're an entrepreneur. So asking questions about businesses that you have some interested in, it's a great way to connect with people. And you can do it in person. You can do it on LinkedIn, you can do it, you know, anywhere. Just like you send them into the Small Business Show.

Well, and that's the other thing, right, is have your daughter listen to the Small Business Show. We've got a ton of content in our archives. We're constantly doing exactly this, answering your questions, have her ask us questions. Feedbackus show. Co. You know, we, we are here as a resource too. Don't make us your only resource, but, you know, make us part of your resource stack, if you will.

So. Yeah, yeah, like that.

Yeah.

And, you know, the last comment I would make, and I've heard this said before, and I've come to agree with it, is that having to be passionate about one specific thing is kind of overrated. You can be passionate about anything. You can be passionate about being a great entrepreneur, even if the business is selling widgets. You know, you can be passionate about a great team of people that you've put together, how you've enriched their lives. We talked about last week in the reciprocity show about helping the week before about helping, you know, your employees grow and learn new things. So I've seen a lot of people that are passionate about something they're very interested in, but can be tough to build a business around. And I would say if you, you would be better off focusing on just, okay, I want to be in business, you know, how can I find something to make it, to make it work?

Yeah, There is a, there is a time and place for passion, but I would say that bullheaded persistence is a more valuable skill than passion or quality.

I should say that's what pays the bills. You know, passion will get you started, but it's that persistence that will pay the bills.

Maybe persistent passion is the key. Right.

I like that.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, that's really good. So, and, and you know, like we've talked about, we mentioned here during this conversation, that learning, asking questions, it's that talent stack concept that I first Learned about, you know, a few years ago from listening to Scott Adams that, that your chances of success are going to be far greater as you build a talent stack of different things. Learning a little bit about accounting, learning about economics, you know, and, and being ready, oh, how do, how does logistics work, you know, how do people ship and warehouse and all this kind of stuff. Those things are all going to build your talent stack and build, help you build success over time. It doesn't happen overnight, but over time you're going to know a lot of, about many, many different things instead of only knowing, you know, a huge deep dive into one thing.

And if you can't expand your talent stack fast enough, farm it out either either bring on employees or, you know, contractors that can, can, you know, do those things for you, your accountant, your attorney. Right. Like there, there is a mix of both required for success and in the form is unique to you. But be aware that rarely does a business succeed with 100% of all of the effort and knowledge coming from just one person.

Oh, absolutely.

Rarely.

Yeah, that's good point. So yeah, Kelly, so hopefully that that helps you, you know, encourage your daughter to check in with us from time to time, see how things are going, ask any other questions and we appreciate your feedback at BusinessShow Co to get your own questions answered.

All right, cool. The next thing I want to do here is I want to talk about our sponsor for this week which is hellofresh@hellofresh.com SBS 14 and you use code SBS 14. And the reason for that is that you get up to 14 free meals plus free shipping from HelloFresh. If you don't know about HelloFresh yet, you gotta check it out because HelloFresh cuts out the stressful meal planning and grocery store trips so that you can enjoy cooking and get dinner on the table in just about 30 minutes or less. Or you can try HelloFresh's Quick and Easy Meals. These are 15 to 20 minute dinners, breakfast on the go and more easy options. Perfect for your busy lifestyle. We've used HelloFresh here at home. We've used it actually quite a bit over the last year and it's fantastic because we can get meals for the family and then the four of us can cook together. So a, it puts food on the table which is, you know, a thing you need to do every day and baby, it gives us an activity to do together. The instructions are easy. It's really a great thing. And I was looking at the menu here for the upcoming week. Buffalo Spiced Crispy chicken cutlets, beef meatballs with bulgogi sauce. I like saying bulgogi. One pot pork and black bean chili. They've got cheesy black bean enchiladas, cherry balsamic bavette steak, pecan crusted trout. You're going to love these things because HelloFresh is high quality. Fresh ingredients are sourced directly from growers and delivered from the farm to your front door in under a week. Contact free, of course. So go to hellofresh.com SBS14 use code SBS14 for up to 14 free meals plus free shipping. Again, that's hellofresh.com SBS 14 code SBS14. And our thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring this episode. All right, Shannon. Well, next up, we do we get to talk to David Carpenter from gameotics, who we talked to last year. I'm very interested to hear how things have evolved for him.

Yes. So am I curious. It's a really novel concept, this gamification of storytelling is how they describe it with their gameotic software. And this seize the show group that he's started and worked with to bring performances online during the pandemic. The shutdown of live performances that it's really come a long way and I think David has learned a lot about, especially about what business he really is in.

I think that's the biggest takeaway. Listen to this with that lens on it and you'll take away a huge amount for your own business, too.

Yeah, it's great. I'm looking forward to it. And as always, I'm learning the most here. So that's awesome. And I'm going to learn more from David when we get through this talk.

Here we go.

Hey, we all know, Dave, that live performances, and you're in the live performance business too, you know, one of the hardest hit during the pandemic. And with performances just now, you know, starting to come back 18 months into this thing.

Yeah, yeah. I'm finally playing gigs again. I saw last week that Madison Square Garden was full of people for a Foo fighters concert, like 19,000 people or something, which is. I think they were all vaccinated. I forget how the state of New York did it for that. I actually went to a concert in the state of New York that was held a little differently, but. But yeah, it's cool. Like, the point that we're even able to say these things means yes, coming back. That's right.

That's great. So we, whenever we have guests on, we always say, hey, you know, come back, check in with us and Everything. So I'm really happy to be able to check in today with David Carpenter, founder of Tilted Windmills theatricals game otics, and sees the show, the folks that have pioneered the gamification of storytelling. So, David, thank you for coming by to chat. We talked to you in April of 2020 and I don't think any of us, at least I didn't at that time, thought that live performances would still be, you know, 16, 17 months later, shut down. Can you give us an update on how you and your team have done and how you've kind of persevered and actually thrived during the shutdown on live performances?

Yeah, I would love to, Dan. Thank you guys for having me back for the update. I really appreciate it. I will start by saying I absolutely thought it was going to be 18 months. I did, I did. In March of last year, I was like, this is going to be an 18 month journey. Just based on everything I'd read about the previous flu pandemic and just how long these things just take to resolve themselves. And then also the other thing, the machine of live entertainment is not something that just swings back into action. You know, it takes a lot of. There's so there's a lot of consumer travel and decisions and planning. All those things have to happen. It's just, it is a machine that has to be restarted, you know, slowly and carefully in order for it to continue going.

So I'm actually surprised that it's going as much as it is this summer at the scale that it is. I figured we'd have local productions of things this summer, but never did I expect that we'd actually have touring productions out on the road. I didn't think they'd be able to get their, you know, insurance policies in place and just the logistics of mounting a Tor. I'm very impressed that any of it's happening.

I think that it's a combination of two things. Pent up consumer demand, right? Which I think is a very real thing. And the government stepped in and prevented the economy from cratering, right? So we allowed for an easier restart for all of these things to happen, knowing that all these variables had to be kind of aligned with themselves, which is what people didn't know a year ago. So anyway, so if you, if you recall, I, I had a, a software platform, right, that allowed for a two way communication between audience and content in real time during a live event. And that software was specifically built to be able to handle originally these kind of branching narrative stories where the audiences are making decisions throughout the course of the event that are changing the nature of the event, they're changing the story, that are changing the endings, that are changing what the characters are saying. Right. And in April of last year, I was really just starting and saying, well, a pandemic has hit. My career has, you know, as a live event producer has been stalled out. Now what do I do? And I came on your show and I told you, like, well, I have this thing. Let's see what happens, right?

Yeah. And you were developing that pre pandemic, right? You were just looking at ideas and options and how it could work, is that right?

Yeah, and that's exactly what I was doing, is that I'd actually was in planning stages for a production at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. I had a venue, I had a time, I had everything booked and I was raising money to go off and do that when everything just kind of got halted. So I had to kind of refigure out what to do. And that's actually where it sees the show was born. And if you recall, I called a group of friends together and I said, let's start putting on shows on Zoom and see what happens. So what the real journey actually over the last year that has been is that I actually learned about the software that I had created, right? Like, I'm coming on today saying, if it hadn't been for the pandemic, forcing me to be innovative and creative and figuring out how I was going to use the software, I wouldn't actually be where I am today, which I'll tell you about. But let me tell you about what happened for the last year, which is I just started producing events, right? We started doing them as readings on Zoom. We started writing these scripts, I started writing scripts, I called other friends together, they started writing scripts. And about every three weeks we'd turn a script around and we'd do a production on Zoom. And of course, the producer demon inside of me, like, sprang up to life and said, well, these aren't good enough. Keep going. And so we started adding, we moved them to make them an hour long experiences. We started doing marketing and advertising. We started really investing in the quality of the production. And during that time, Mike became an expert on Zoom. We learned how to produce on Zoom, but most more importantly, we learned how to produce the type of content that people who want to use my software are going to ultimately end up being produced. So we became our first customer for the software. Right.

It makes perfect sense. Yeah, right.

Not what I expected to have happen in April. So if you if you remember, I thought I was building a content company, right? And for many, many months, I thought I was like, well, I'm going to build this content company and I'm going to start building, building a library of content that's doing this. And other people can license the software, but I'm going to be this platform for that. I'm going to spearhead all the content. And what ended up happening in the fall was that we were really going forward. So I was selling tickets. We were totally paid, making money every month. Not profiting, but making money every month through our ticket sales. And then people started showing up and started saying, well, I want to use your software to do my own thing. And so then we started gaining another class of customers. So we had our ticket buying the content that we were creating, and then we had a class of customers who were starting to license the technology from us and use it to do their own thing. And I was like, well, gosh, that's happening, right? That's happening very fast. Not what I expect to happen. And then I had a dawning. So the other thing that was kind of important about this journey is like, I started using the software in different formats, right? So we did this branching narrative style, right? And then we were doing murder mysteries, which are its own format itself. Then we were doing game shows and quiz shows, right? And it was all for our seas. The show audience, they would show up every week and they'd participate. We'd sell them subscription passes, we sell them single tickets. And then we started doing. We did a dating sim, which was wild, right? Where the audience had to choose who they wanted to go home with. That was crazy. We did. Based on the Great Gatsby you were going through this evening, we were trying to figure out who to date in the Great Gatsby. It was really, really funny.

And how many people would you have attending these over zoom?

I mean, we would do a week of performances, and I'd get 1,000 people in over the week. Right?

Wow. Okay, so those are real. I mean, not that 100 wouldn't be a real number, but a thousand. Like, that's a lot of customers. Or that's a lot of people through the virtual doors. Yeah.

I mean, and so we did an escape room, right? We did our version of an escape room. And. And what would happen is we would have hardcore fans, like 5% of our audience, right. Would show up to every single show because they wanted to see every possible iteration, right?

So that's.

Oh, yeah, every show is different, right?

Every show Is different. All depends on how the audience is choosing the decisions they're making. And the escape room was actually. Yeah, because what the escape room proved, it was like, wait, this works in several different formats. It's not just for storytelling. This is a tool that can be used across the spectrum of experiential and immersive entertainment. And it was at that moment that I was like, we're going to make a massive change. Right? And so it was like, it was that kind of like pivot in your first year, right. That every company has to make to say, wait a second, this is what we've actually been doing this whole time. And the truth is like, I'm not a content company. Right?

Yeah, this is who we are. That moment when you realize and, and that's a lesson for everybody listening here, that pay attention to what you're doing and every now and then try and zoom out to 10,000ft real quick and just make sure that you know what you're. You think that what you think you're doing is what you're actually doing. Because there will be that moment, especially like you said in your first year of business where you realize, oh wait, this is what we are. Let's do, let's market that. Yeah.

And that's also part of listening to investors, right? Listening to what the feedback in saying. And a lot of it was listening to no's and the nos of saying this phenomenal idea. Right? You're actually right. But no one wants to invest in a content company, right? Because you actually haven't actually proven that your content company, which is going to be massively expensive to finance, is the right way to start. And it kind of came down to it saying, well, wait a second, you're right, I don't want to be a content company. Because actually what got me really excited was not me being the customer, it was having other people designing and execute their own experiences using my software. And that was that thing. I was like, oh, no, no, we're a SaaS company. Like we are a software company, right? We are going to service this entire experiential industry with this software for the next generation. And that was when the conversation started getting really interesting. Then I had people within immersive and Experiential saying, no, you're right, we're going to hit a ceiling in the experiential and the immersive experience. Right. For audiences and there needs to be a jump up to the next level and it's going to be served by technology and it's like, and this is a way. This is. This is a perfectly viable pathway forward.

And why not let it be yours? Oh, this. What a fascinating thing. I mean, it just where you've come in the last year from, from, you know, from where we all were with, with the nebulousness of the future. Both the future of your company, but also the future of live entertainment in general. And now here we are with a much cleaner look at both of those things. Really fascinating. I did not expect that this is the conversation we would have when we said come back. Yeah, tell us, tell us, give us a quick update. Yeah.

And then kind of the last piece is like the angel. And I learned a lot about invested startup, like how people invest in startups and what they're looking for. And the angel investors are looking for someone who did not stop working at a crazy pace during the pandemic. Right. And I was able to raise about a half million dollars in angel investment over those last year to figure out my way forward, which is what you want a class of angel investors to do. Like, they were like, the people are like, you're going to get there. You might not have it all figured out right now, but I'm now in the working.

You're taking action. Yeah, yeah.

You're doing stuff. You're not stopping right now. I am. We're closing, you know, as soon as. As soon as possible. Closing the angel round and which is a pre. And because I'm in negotiations on a seed round right now, which is the money I need to actually grow the company and move it into the SaaS place. Right. Because that requires a whole bunch of it. But, you know, the seed round investors want something very different. Right. Which is they want a lot clearer plans and budgets and finances than just like, well, we'll figure it out. It's like, no, no, I want to know what you're doing for the next year and a half. Right.

Yeah, it's terrific. Now, as being a creative person yourself, obviously, and being surrounded by creative people, you know, it doesn't surprise me that you have shifted to move to where the market is and everything else. So if as we wrap up here and talk about other companies or think about other businesses where maybe they don't have, maybe people like me that don't have that creative part, what would you suggest they do if they got hit with something like this, like, oh, wow, my business is going to be shut down for the next. And you know, your foresight. 18 months. What would you say they should do when they see this Tidal wave coming towards them.

Well, sit down. Look at your assets. What's the thing? You're going to go work and dive into that thing. I had plenty of assets in the live entertainment space that all went dead.

You analyzed the things that you already had and then made a decision. This is what we can do during this situation that's out of our control, but this, we can control and grow that part of the business.

Yeah, it's that, like, what can I make with what I got? Right, Right. That was really what it came down to is saying, well, I have this software. And so the software made huge leaps and bounds forward. Right. I mean, that's what that half million dollars do. But, like, even though it was imperfect, it was like, well, figure out a way to get it perfect in six months. Right.

Or perfect enough. Yeah, perfect enough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

David, you know, I love it. I'm so happy that you're here after, you know, 18 months talking about, you know, not just surviving, but actually building a new business and with a very, very bright future. How do people learn more about what you're doing, whether from a performance standpoint or an investor standpoint? What's. What's the best way for people to connect with you?

Go right to gameiotics.com within a couple of days, we'll have a new features video up that really goes through how the software works and, like, email me and, you know, ask me questions. Right. You can get through to me right. On the website. But, like, so gametics.com is where we're at now.

That's awesome. Awesome. Thank you for coming back. And we'll put all your contact information in the show notes and again, check in with us down the road and let us know how things are going.

Absolutely. Thank you, guys. Thank you for having me.

You bet.

Man. You know, he said something that instantly resonated with me. He says, what can I make with what I've got? If. If there ever was a phrase that epitomized the theater mentality, that's it. Right. Because it's like, you know, how do I build sets? Well, what do we have? You know? Okay, great. Now let's figure it out.

Yeah.

Well.

Or.

What's the. What are the constraints of the space that we're in? Right. How. How can. What can we do? All right, we don't have a band. We have a piano player. What. What can we make with what we got? Like, the whole thing, even down to your cat best. Right. So. Yeah.

And. And the thing about it is, too, is he's such a champion of, you know, his business and then making this shift and looking over. It's. It's really this kind of talent stack that we talk about a lot and looking at what asset stat do I have stacked up that I've developed over the years. Boom. This is the one that can. Can work during this situation and let's. Let's lean into it.

Yeah, this is the one. That's it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

It's really cool.

I like it.

Glad to hear from him. Yeah.

Yeah. Same thought it was great. Folks, if you have a question like we talked about at the beginning, make sure to send it to feedback Business show co. That's Feedback Business Show Co. We would love to hear from you. Shannon, you got anything else before we send them on their way?

No, I just like next week we will be rolling out our reciprocity.

Little.

Chotchki for you folks listening to the show and I'm looking forward to sharing with it.

Keep living that charmed life. We'll see you next week.