AI Copyright + Exponential Upside

Business Brain Episode 596 for Wednesday, November 6th National Nacho Day Nachos 2024 Greetings folks and welcome to Business Brain, the show where you send in some questions this week and and then we take those ideas, we dissect them, we analyze them, we use them to tune our business brains together each and every episode. Our sponsor for this episode is vanta.com brain. Vanta automates all your ISO 27001 and SoC2 and GDPR stuff. And with that link vanta.com brain you can save 1000 bucks. So we'll talk more about that in a little bit. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire I am Dave Hamilton and out here.

In Northern California, I'm Shannon Jean. I love Vanta and I like their attitude. They have a huge billboard on the way to the airport that says Vanta so you're something. Something doesn't sock too.

Very clever.

That's pretty good. That's good. I thought that's pretty, that's pretty nice. I always love those. Good attitude.

Yeah.

Messages like that.

Yeah.

Cool. So we're going to talk about some listener emails today. Yes.

Yeah. Jeff wrote into feedbackusbrain show and he says, I've been listening to you guys talk a lot about AI recently. I've not done much with it since my college lisp programming days. However it came up at the company I work because the CFO the other day basically said under no circumstances will you use any AI because the legal department told us that if you use AI to generate any artifacts, you don't own your product anymore and it puts the company at risk. Jeff continues, I think that's a very short sighted and reactionary response. But I'm also hearing that from several other people that it seems to be the current lawyer go to answer right now. Have you guys run into any questions like this or any issues? I feel like that knee jerk response is based on a complete misunderstanding. But once the lawyer says it, listening to reason beyond that seems to go out the door. Interesting. I have thoughts on this, Shannon, but I read the question. I've been talking. What do you think about this?

I have thoughts too. I do think that's kind of short sighted. I, I'm not a huge fan of legal departments as you may know. I have plenty of friends that are attorneys but it seems like when they get together in groups it gets a lot worse.

Yeah, they're fine. They're fine to have a beer with or even play a gig with. But, but, but you know when it's time to actually be lawyerly. It gets in the way.

Yeah. You know, I think most lawyers are very risk averse and that's often the.

Job you ask them to, to, to do.

They're trying to protect you from every possible thing. And you know, if, if I was running a Fortune 1000 or working at a Fortune 1000 corporation, I could see easily, or I understand them saying, hey, this is just a blanket. We're not using it. Because I think they don't know. Right. And so if you don't know, the answer is no.

That's it.

Right. And from an entrepreneur's perspective, I think that's crap. And I think.

But here's the thing though. They might be right.

They might be.

That's the, this is the problem here. Because it has not yet been tested in a court of law.

Correct. We don't know yet, but.

We don't know. But, but let's, let's put on. I'm going to put on my hack lawyer hat here, right. For a second because I'm a pretty good hack lawyer, which means don't take any of my advice, but I take my own advice and I look at this and I say, okay, let's put up like a prima facie case to this here. Right. On the surface. Prima facie, that's my lawyer terms for you for that.

I like it. Yeah.

Where you say, okay, on the face of this. That's what prima facie means. Does this hold water? It's like, okay, well, if I use AI to generate, let's say, an image, right. Because that's a good. But it could be text, it doesn't matter. I give it the prompt. Right. It's not just randomly coming up with something that I'm using. I give it the prompt, I say make me an image of two guys talking about how they hate people that are too lawyerly. Right?

Yes.

Okay, so now it's going to come up with this image and it, it, I'm pretty sure it's using nothing of mine other than the prompt, but certainly no imagery of mine. And I can safely say that because I haven't ever created imagery on my own that I put out on the Internet. That's not one of my, that's not in my talent.

I got you.

But it is using imagery that just appeared everywhere. And there, there are understandably important concerns about did the AI even have the rights to slurp that data and use it?

Yes.

Right, Right. So it's using an amalgamation of lots of those things and pulling it Together to approximate whatever prompt I gave it. And that's true of images, it's also true of text. And text comes from not just text we've written, but also the podcast we've recorded. So I know I've contributed to that for better and for worse. So now you have this image that no one created. Right. You know, no person created. It was a combination of my prompt and other people. Lots of other people's artwork.

Could be millions of, could be millions samples that it has tagged as.

Yeah.

Referencing something and then it's trying to combine those things together to create something new.

Yeah.

Right.

And.

But like that's the question.

Can I say that I have copyright to that? I would say no.

I would, I would agree that, yes.

I don't, I, but I don't know that anybody else does. So that, that's my lawyerly thing. It's like I can't copyright this, but I don't think somebody can come after me for using it. Like if I. We do it all the time. We take an image and we put it up as the artwork for the show.

It is, but we don't copyright that. We're not saying we own it.

That's right.

And I, I think with the AI where it is now, it's a fantastic way to get started. But then to iterate on.

Of course. Especially with the writing.

Yes, yes, especially with the writing. If you know, giving you something to work with and start and give you some background. But even the IM injury, when I've used it, I often have to go fix it.

So for sure.

Especially if there's text or you know, whatever.

Disaster.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's very, it's not intelligent.

But even, even like text that I have it generate, I also need to go fix that.

Of course. Yeah.

But it's a great like starter. Like it's the procrastination killer. Right. Because it's like, oh, I don't know how to get started with this. Great. Tell chat GPT to get started with it and then you're off to the race. Maybe.

Yeah, maybe the nuance to the legal department is to define the AI as another tool in your toolbox but not an end all solution for something that we are going to try to brand, sell, whatever and that copyright. Yeah, I don't, I don't. You're right. I don't think you can, I don't think it's a good idea.

Yeah. And, and I don't know at what point you could like if I had, if I prompted AI to, to write something, let's say, you know, I, I want to write an article about whatever and I prompt AI to like give me some ideas to get me started and then I take it from there and massage it and, and write my own stuff and basically use that as the first draft that I hack and slash and turn into my own thing is the end thing, mind that? I don't know. Like, it depends on how much I've changed from the AI. I, I know that there is a line there somewhere, but I don't know where that line is.

I don't know where it is. I don't think we as a society know where it is.

And that's why the lawyers being, are.

Being cautious and is, are we running, going to run into where the prompts themselves are going to be copyrighted?

Oh, could I copyright my prompts and sell those?

Well, I'm getting like, I belong to a bunch of newsletters about writing newsletters and, and marketing and producing content, all this kind of stuff. And they're often, you know, oh, here's our prompt. Try this prompt. Do this prompt. So why couldn't you copyright a prompt that's instructing an AI to produce? Because, you know, and I don't know if it'll always be this way. Every time you try that prompt, it gives you a different result.

Different result. Yeah. But what if you ask the AI to help refine your prompt?

Yeah, you, you can and you should do that.

But then is the prompt yours?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. Yeah.

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Yeah. I think that because, you know, we talk a lot about, oh, you're escaping the 9 to 5 and people want to leave and, and get quote, freedom. We're going to talk more about that next week.

Yep.

You know, you probably will be working harder than actually, I can guarantee it, you will be working more and, and using more brain power, building your own business, especially in the beginning.

Oh, for sure.

Than you would if you're working for somebody else. Oh yeah. I mean, everything's blurred but over time and it, you know, there's, there's upside. Of course. The whole idea is you're going to build something that's for yourself. Right. You're not just working, you're not working for someone else building something for them, you're building something for yourself. But I think what often is missed is that as you build, you know, analogy I like is like you're, you're building a net.

Okay.

And over time you get opportunities and the more you build this net, every once in a while something happens.

Yeah. The net catches something.

Correct. Most of the time. Let's use that. Keep with that analogy. Most of the time little fish swim right through and whatever. And that's just your day to day grind and you build something great. And if you're fortunate, you maybe can build a few of those kind of, few of those companies over time. Like, like we've been able to do, which has been wonderful. But once in a while you catch a whale, right?

Yep.

This is ex. Yeah, it, it totally happens. It is the exponential upside that I think when people talk about entrepreneurship.

Oh, interesting.

It's often not discussed. It's. You're going to build something great. Okay, great. Hopefully it's going to go like this. It doesn't. It goes, you know, like this. Like this.

Shannon. Shannon. Shannon's making a nice straight line going. Or a nice diagonal line going up. That's the hope. It never happens that way. But, but zoom out far enough and maybe it does. Right?

Correct.

You know, it's got plateaus and dips and all the other things.

It's the concept when somebody really makes it and you say, oh, they think it's an overnight success. They're like, yeah, it took me 10 years.

Right.

When I finally just didn't.

You didn't see the first nine and a half years.

Yeah. And so along the way, you know, don't underestimate the value of all of the skills that you are accumulating to.

Be ready and the relationships and the like. Everything that. Not just the skills, it's all the things. Yes.

Your network, your. Your financial backing, your infrastructure, if you.

Will, your trust that you've built in the market. Everything. Yes, everything.

Everything. One time you're gonna get an email or you're gonna get a phone call, or someone's gonna mention something and all of a sudden it's like, game on. And it could be something happens, an opportunity comes along and in. In a very short period of time, it could change your entire life.

I've had this happen and I know you have. Me too.

Me too.

I had it happen when you came to me. Ah. With deals on the web.

That's it. Yeah. I mean, that was one.

That was one of those things. It was like.

It was one of those.

This. This. My net caught that.

Yes.

And it's like. I don't mean to say like caught is a. Bad is a. I don't mean that in the negative sense. Like I.

You just got to.

I got to take advantage of this. I was ready for it.

You're ready for it.

It was a good partnership. It was mutually beneficial. There was no, it wasn't like, I got the better of you. Like, I don't mean to imply that, but.

That's right.

But without me having built that net, you would have never come to me.

No, that's right. You had something.

Yeah.

That you had built.

Correct.

And I had something that I had built.

Yes.

And I thought, let's combine those two things and build something great. And it was phenomenal.

Phenomenal.

For a decade.

Right? It really was a decade.

It was a decade.

So, yeah, we made a lot of money. Like not. Not like, you know, I was gonna say not life changing money, but that's not true. Yeah, it was life changing. It was an extra. It was like an extra income coming in and that's.

Yeah.

It didn't need to be millions of dollars.

No. It was one of the first things that I was able to start that eventually. Not in the beginning, but eventually my time was not attached to. Yes, I was. It was by. By necessity because I had a couple other business going. But.

Yes.

Yeah. But it was great. So as you're, you know, it may just seem like you're going through this Daily grind and this stuff. But, you know, it's not. You're preparing yourself for some opportunity that's going to hit. I. I'm sure. And I'd love to hear examples that. That have done, you know, for other people too.

No, and here's the thing, folks. You. You might know it when you see it when, when that big thing shows up, but you might not. Like, when you came to. To us with this idea, it was like, okay, like, like, oh, sure, like another crazy person showing up with an idea. Because that, that will happen to you too, right?

Yes, it will.

And then you and I started talking. It was like, oh, and I. Like, you weren't an unknown quantity either.

Sure.

But sometimes an unknown quantity will show up. Like you and I, you know, I knew you had built things, so it was like, okay, this person's not a time waster, so it's worth. But even that, it was like, well, we'll see where it goes. But I have said we'll see where it goes with everything that has turned into the stuff that, like, built my house and buys my cars and pays for my kids to go to school. Every one. Maybe the right way to say this is every one of these things, every business I've ever had has started as a side hustle.

I say that all the time in my mind.

It's like it. Yeah. Like this. Maybe this is. It's a. Maybe it's like, whatever. Like this. It doesn't seem like a terrible idea. That's. I have the litmus test.

Yeah, I like that. And I have 2. 2, 2 points to make about this. One is you're. What? You're just talking about side hustle, maybe an experiment. This.

So don't expect that the thing that's going to change life is gonna, like, smack you in the face one day.

No, no. And. And I've always had one or two ideas. One or two businesses that I call my sandbox.

Yes.

And when I talk about them now, I've said this on the show a bunch of times. Don't talk about what you're going to do. Talk about what you've done. You'll sound better, you'll sound more confident, and. And people will give you more credibility.

The Shannon Jean way.

Yeah, it's. It's true. But you need time to be able to do that. Right. When you're a young person getting started, you can't. But what you can do and what I've done is talk about something as an experiment. I'm just experimenting. I'm Just, that's my sandbox. When, you know, I started that handbag business, I started talking about it and I was like, people are going to think I'm crazy. Right. I'm a tech guy that sells electronics. I was like, well, it's just an experiment. I'm just going to try. And then I even made it sound more crazy. It was like, well, I want to create a company I can just run with my phone. Kind of hyperbole. But it got everybody's attention.

And so is the four hour work week.

Yes, exactly. Same kind of thing. So that's a great way to talk about these experiments. Now, the exponential upside thing, the other thing I want to warn people about is not to be focused on. I'm only going to find those exponential upsides.

Right.

I'm only going for grand slams.

Oh.

Because you can't know. Yeah. You will not develop the skills you need to be able to bring that whale into your net. Right. You just won't have it and you'll fail at it. You won't have the financial means, you won't have the infrastructure, you won't have the employees. All these things are built. You'll be missing. So what happens is when that whale comes in, it'll just slip right by you. So. And I know people that have spent their entire life trying to chase these big, big deals.

No.

And have not done very well and have Eve to this day, you know, talk about this big deal next. This big deal next. And I'm just like, wow, man. I'm just a simple, simple guy. I'm grinding every day, I'm building things, and once in a while, man, something comes into my neck and it just. Boom. And it changes my life dramatically. And.

Do you have something in your. Is it, is there something that, you know, you don't have to articulate what it is, but did, did, did this topic come up because you found a. A whale?

Yeah, I, I don't have it yet, but I've. I can see it.

Okay.

And I believe it'll. It. It'll be the most profitable thing I've ever done in my life.

Amazing.

Yeah. And we'll talk about it, but not for.

Probably not today or so. Right? Yeah.

No, no, no.

I, I get that. Oh. That's why I asked. The way I asked. It was a yes or no. We podcasters learn never to ask, but that's really all I wanted, was a yes or no. Okay.

And I'm building my net because I don't have the skill set. I know. I don't have the skill set to land this well yet.

Got it.

This whale. But I'm developing them step by step by step. Is it moving fast enough? No, never. You know, it never goes fast enough. It's always more expensive, takes more time, all these things. But don't forget the exponential upside. And don't. That's where your life will be changed.

Yeah, yeah.

And share it with us. Feedback at BusinessBrain show.

Absolutely.

Tell us how you know. Oh, I did this. I was in the plumbing industry and this. And all of a sudden, boom. Or I was in the printing business and then this. Or I built a digital agency and then this guy called me. We love to hear those stories. Then we'll share them on the show.

And Ray Kroc, when he started McDonald's was what, 57 or something? Or 62 or something, like.

Yeah, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, he was in the blender business.

Yeah, yeah. Love it. Amazing feedback at BusinessBrain show. We got more of your feedback coming on Friday, so make sure you stay subscribed. Download that, that episode, too, and keep living that charmed life. We'll see you on Friday.