An Accidental System and Increasing Engagement

Business Brain the Entrepreneurs Podcast Episode 406 for Wednesday, November 16, 2022. Greetings folks and welcome back to Business Brain, the show where we talk about how we can apply our business brains to all kinds of things, including our own businesses and also our lives, all kinds of stuff. Sponsors for this episode include shopify.com SBS that's where you're going to go to get your 14 day trial and full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. We'll talk more about that in depth in a little bit. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton and in Lafayette, California.

I am Shannon Jean. I'm excited to do this show today.

Yeah, it is going to be different. Yeah, the. I have a sort of an accidental system anecdote to share in a minute here. But yeah, folks, the second half of this episode is going to be hopefully a candid conversation between the two of us, Shannon and me, about what to do with the show. Because I'm going to be perfectly candid and honest. Although I'm always honest on this show.

I was going to say. You are. Yeah, yeah.

I've been trying to remove the word honestly from my vocabulary because it's, it's one of those speech pattern, verbal tick kind of things that you. That I use to underscore a point. Right. But the problem is, and a former M and A guy that I worked with pointed this out to me, he said, he said, yeah, don't say honestly, say candidly. Because when you say honestly, you have the potential to communicate that everything up to that point was not honest. It's like, oh, right, that's a really good point. So that's a good point. Candidly, we're not getting a lot of engagement from you, our listeners, our audience in general. And we know you're out there, we know you're listening because we can see that people are downloading the show and listening to it. But we're not getting the kind of engagement that really kind of fuels us. Right. And so we're going to talk a little bit about that on the back half of the episode. And I, folks, I don't want you to feel like this is that you. That we are blaming any of you for this. No, no, it's not. This is us. Right. We are not creating an environment where that happens for whatever reason. I don't know why, but we're going to talk about that. The first thing I want to share with you, Shannon, is something that I have talked about on one of my other shows. But it hasn't really come up on this show. Although I realize that the benefit of using one's business brain and systems in non business life. And I will preface this by saying my health is fine. I mean, as far as I know, as far as any of us can know. But I have. Yeah, there are no issues with my health, but I have lost 35 pounds since August. Wow. Yep. Almost on purpose. Well, sort of. So this is the beauty of a system where you're just working the system and you're not focused on the results. Because weight loss, as, as I'm sure we're all aware, is a. An emotionally difficult thing for most of us to. To accomplish. Right? It's very difficult.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure. I will tell you up front, I had no issues with this. Now, I don't go around bragging to people, oh yeah, it's super easy, even though it is, because I know that that will end me up homeless and divorced and with no friends and all those things. So I don't like to be a jackass. And so that's part of why I haven't really talked about this. But then I. I saw people, like, especially I went to that pepcom event a couple of weeks ago, and I've run into some people that I hadn't seen since the summer or whatever. My family, by the way, completely missed the fact that I lost like, you know, 30. I'd lost about 25 by. Defined by the time I talked to them and told them about this. They're like, wait, what? And I'm like, yep, still here. You know, been here every day. But I went to pepcom and people saw me and they're like, wait a minute, like, wow, you've lost a lot of weight. And then a few of them were like, is everything okay? Are you okay? Yeah, exactly. It's like, whoa. Right. I didn't even think about this. So this all started. This is a side effect of a failed experiment. It's all started because I have, I think maybe I've mentioned them on the show. I have these lipomas. These are these little fatty lumps that sit underneath. They sit inside my skin. In fact, they sit in the, in the layers of the skin. And by and large, I leave them alone. They are, you know, they are benign. There's no issue with them unless physically they cause me discomfort or pain or something like that. Right. And so I've had a few of them taken out over the years that have caused that kind of discomfort, pain. But if I had them all taken out, I'd look like Swiss cheese. I'd just have, you know, scars everywhere. They're super easy when they come out. It's like, you know, 20 minutes of surgery and then I go home. Like I drive home. It's not a big deal. Yeah. This summer though, early this summer, I started having problems with them in my arms. And they were affecting my ability to play the drums and it was. And that in turn was affecting my like mental well being. And I really started and I had a couple of them taken out of my left arm and that helped. And proactively I had a couple taken out on my right arm. I missed a couple on my right arm that I didn't realize were causing me problems or were going to cause me problems. And then it was like, oh crap, I gotta have more of these taken out. It really started growing on me. No pun intended. So I, so I did all kinds of research as one might do, Googling, even like the fringiest corners of the Internet, trying to find anyone that might have some way of different maybe correct, like didn't matter. There is nothing out there about this. No one knows why these things grow. They do know that once they've grown they tend, tend not to go away, but that's about it, you know. And so I, I bought this hundred dollar, like ultrasound thing that. No, it doesn't work. Yeah, yep. Tried all kinds of things. And then finally in, in my, you know, lizard brain, I reasoned and that that should have been my first inclination, that this was going to lead to failure. But I let my lizard brain reason that hey, if I stop producing as much fat in my body, I will grow less of these things that are little fatty deposits. Right. I mean, you know, like to a five year old that, that logic makes sense. Sure. So that's what that's, that was the catalyst to this. As soon as I had that thought, I also thought, you know, my portion, my definition of a normal portion size of food has not changed since I was in my 20s and I'm not in my 20s anymore. I don't think I need as much food as I used to. So let's, let's relearn what a portion size is, what full means. Right. You know, let's, let's do all that. So for the first couple of weeks I used an app because the best part is there's these apps out there that have like databases of all the food in the world and you just put in what you're eating and it'll tell you how Many calories it is, and from there it is. And this is where people hate me when I say this, and I'm sorry, but I'm just going to say it from there. It's a simple math problem. You consume less than you burn. Now, the trick to that math problem and the asterisk that that is true for, for most of us, me included, is that your body will start burning less when it thinks it's getting less. Right. So it's not quite as simple as a math problem in that your, you know, your metabolism will change as you are feeding your body less. And so you have to sort of address that and you have to be ready for that and all those things. But it really is a math problem if you. If you can figure out how much your body's burning and consume less than that, then you will start consuming your own reserves. Yeah, that's how it works. And so I went through all of this, and for the first couple of weeks, I was really obsessive about using this app. I used an app called Lose It. You could use my fitness pal, whatever. I mean, you could probably just find a database on the web if you didn't want to have it in your pocket. But, I mean, it's just. It makes it so easy because you can just know with it. I mean, I'm sure there's a cool, you know, margin of error or something, but it's close enough. And because I didn't know what a portion size was, so I had to trust something else. And that's why I use the app, was to relearn what that meant. And the first two weeks were difficult just in that I had to trust that the app was not going to lead me astray. Like, if I consumed as much calories as the app was saying I was consuming, like, okay, well, that's it, you know, okay, that's the end. All right, fine, I guess. And it took me a little bit for my brain to adjust. It did not impact my ability to grow these lipomas. I have had another surgery since then just to get them out, and it worked. Worked like, it's so much. My arm is so much better. I can play again. It doesn't impact me. It's amazing. But other than that, you know, the, The. The. The side effect of this experiment was I've lost, like, 35 pounds since.

That's a big deal.

Since the end of July, beginning of August. Yeah. Yeah, that's perfect. No, I'm. I, I have. I also don't know what a normal Portion size is. I have overcorrected. Clearly. I've lost 35 pounds. I. You know, once I realized I was losing weight, it was like, okay, well, wait a minute. What should my b. I might as well take advantage of this. Right? You know, and so where I am now is probably where I need to land. I'm gonna go a little bit down from here because I know I'm gonna bounce off the bottom and come up. Like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna course correct perfectly, but, you know, that's fine. The holidays are coming up. They'll help with that. No problem.

Yep.

So. But, yeah, you know, it's just. I just worked the system. I wasn't feeling focused on the results. I wasn't focused. And. And therefore, the system was very easy for me. And it wasn't. At first I thought, well, you know, like, 15 pounds, that's enough. And then. And that's at that point was when I was like, well, what is my bmi? What. What should that be? I. I looked all that up, but, you know, and was like, oh, I actually, okay, I'll just stay with the system. That's fine. You know, and. But it would. At that point, it was easy. It was like, well, yeah, the system is the system. It's no problem. And for anybody interested, I'm still able to eat everything I want to eat. I still drink alcohol. I didn't have to cut things out. I'm just more aware of what my portion sizes of any given thing should.

That's a big deal.

That's it.

Yeah. I've been pretty fortunate that I'm a pretty slim person too. I get full. I get full very quickly now. I like to eat and snack all day long. That's my.

That's the downfall. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think the key is that the system that you're talking about is the way to go. Because if you're just focused on, I got to lose weight, I got to lose weight, you know, it's. I just see, you know, so many people, they do really well, but because there is no system long term in place, it's just easy to bounce back, you know, up and like, like you mentioned.

So, yeah, that's it. I just. I relearned. I have to relearn again, obviously. I mean, I'm not at a dangerous point. I'm not like, emaciated or anything, but I will be if I stay on this current path. Like, there's no doubt about it. Yeah.

You know, get a balance. Well, you've got the system in place and you can adjust that.

I'm just, all I have to do is tweak the system. That's it. It's like, oh, and you know, at this point, the tweak to the system is let's, let's add 400 more calories to the day. Yeah, that's cool. Hey, like, okay, that's awesome. That's pretty easy.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. It's a good story. And the power of systems, you know, we've talked about that forever and that's really what I want to talk about today is the system that we have in place for business brain and perhaps that we could tweak that a bit.

Hey, you know, one of my favorite movies, actually both of them are the Horrible bosses movies. They're fantastic, right? I mean, I know they're sick and twisted and all that stuff, but they are fantastic. Just because I like the movie though, doesn't mean that I want to be a horrible boss. And I know you're the same way. So are you ready to be your own boss yet? You can start, run and grow your own successful business with Shopify, the all in one commerce platform. And that's the sound you hear every time a sale is made on Shopify. Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone from anywhere. Whether your thing is vintage teas or recipes for ghee. Start selling with Shopify and join the platform, simplifying commerce for millions of your favorite businesses worldwide. With Shopify, you create an online store in your vibe. You can discover new customers and then you can grow the following that keeps them coming back. And Shopify's got all the sales channels sorted. So your business keeps growing from in person POS to all in one e commerce platform. Even across social media platforms 24. 7 support and free libraries of educational content mean that Shopify's got you every step of the way. And that's how every minute new sellers around the world make their first sale with Shopify. And you will too. Shannon and I have done it. You can try Shopify for free and start selling anywhere. Sign up for a free trial@shopify.com SBS. Go to shopify.com SBS to start selling online today. Shopify.com SBS and our thanks to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. And speaking of things that are going to help your business, if you're ready to scale your service based business, then we've got a podcast for you. It's freelance to founder. You know how your entire business can often get hung up on just One or two problems you can't seem to solve. Like if you could just solve this one thing, you can finally move your business forward. Freelance to Founder helps you make real progress in your business. It's a top rated weekly show co hosted by Clay and Preston who have previously started, grown and sold their own businesses. And now they offer free weekly coaching calls to freelancers, small business owners and agency builders, helping them overcome their biggest hurdles and make real progress in their businesses. You can even join them for your own coaching call to listen. Just search Freelance2Founder wherever you get your podcasts or visit Freelance2Founder.com. That's FreelanceTo Founder.com on Apple Podcasts. Wherever you choose to listen, start breaking down barriers and make real progress when your small business with this must listen show. Freelance to Founder. Thanks to Clay and Preston for doing this swap with us. All right, so you know, they, they are Freelance to Founder. I feel like we have given ourselves freedom to flounder here. I like that.

That's pretty good.

I don't know. I like. Well, so like here's, I mentioned it in the intro of the show with I do three podcasts, right? I do this one. I do Gig Gab, which is for musicians. And we did that crossover episode a little while back. That's right. I actually have the great business case study about the band Goose and how they have treated, I think they've treated the band like, like they, like a startup complete with financial Runway and everything. Yeah, no, they, they, they grew too fast not to have done that. But anyway, if you want to hear that, go listen to Gigab because it's the second half of the, of this week's episode 363, I think. But anyway, I do, I do this and Gigab those, these two podcasts started literally on the same day almost eight years ago. And then Matt Geek Gab started what would be, you know, almost 10 years before that. And so I do all three of these shows. The other two shows get quite a bit of listener feedback every week. And I'll say, you know, Gigab doesn't get it every week. We get maybe 10 pieces of feedback a month. Macgeek Gab is a Q and A show. So we get, you know, probably a thousand pieces of feedback a month. But you know, Gigab gets like 10, 10 to 15. And it's great because it, it's reactive. Sometimes people are agreeing with things we've said, sometimes they're disagreeing, sometimes they're sharing things that are completely irrelevant to what we've said. And then that sparks new topics sometimes, you know, they'll share, you know, cool things that they found that they use in their, their musical careers or otherwise or whatever. But there's just this, there's this. We have a, a group of fans that are engaged, and we don't have that here. And I'm, I'm careful, I'm careful to say that I know we have a group of fans, or at least I think we do, because we hear from you and there are some of you, but it's like a handful that we hear from regularly. But, you know, regularly for any one person is probably once every other month or so. Right. And that's great, but there's not enough of that happening to inform me that we are doing things in the right way or that we keep trying to.

Tweet, tweet things, which I think is great. You know, changed format of the show the last year or so, we changed, you know, the name of the show to try to focus in on what we talk about a lot, you know, using your business brain. And I think those things are great, but I think we need to continue on that path. And as we discussed, you know, we had a different topic for the show laid out. And I typically do an outline for things just to keep me focused during the conversation. And as we were 20, 30 minutes into that conversation, that's when you said, hey, we should just do this on the, on the show.

Yeah, great. Yeah. And I wonder, like, one of the questions that I, I ask and I don't know the answer to this, I, I kind of need to do some reflection and listening back is, are we, are we too, are we too much in expert presenter mode when we do this show as opposed to conversation mode when we do this show? Because it's easy for us, especially with the outlines that, that you do, and they are good out. Like, I don't, I, I. Without them, we'd get off track. But is that bad?

And, and maybe that's okay.

And maybe that's okay. And then what happens is, you know, we, when we do get off track or, or we spend more time on, you know, an earlier section of the, you know, what, whatever it was we were going to talk about, then we get rushed and the end of the episode becomes this speed round of, well, let me just share all these things. Yeah, and that definitely gets us into presentation.

Yeah, I don't like that either. But it's also, it's not like, oh, we had a show that was super conversational, just back and forth and boy, we could track the engagement went up on that one.

Right, right, right.

My frustration with this show, like, I love doing this show. It's great. I learned the most. I always say that, and I really mean it.

This has been, I think this show has been instrumental in me increasing my value and the value of my businesses. Just, just being able to talk about this stuff with you both what we talk about in the show and what we talk about not in the show. And I'm wondering how much of the what we talk about not in the show really should be in the show. Some of it just because confidentiality can't. Yeah. You know, we're two friends that share things with each other. But. But maybe we need to rethink that too. I don't know.

Maybe the frustrating part of this show for me is the. There's. I have all kinds of other interests and things that go on and I know when I'm, when I start to tweak things, I, I create a feedback loop and then it helps guide what I do. Oh, if I'm selling this product, I want to try this brand. How did that work? Oh, that didn't work. Good. Let me try something else. Okay. Oh, there it is. Or maybe you can't sell it this way. You have to do it this way. So I, I get this loop of the feedback loop that sends me in a certain direction that hopefully is successful and helps build success. The challenge with, with just the podcast is getting for us or for me in particular is getting that feedback loop to know what adjustments to make.

Yep.

Oh, if it's because we've talked about it before, maybe show should be 15 minutes and we should do it twice a week. Maybe it should be a 10 minute show every day. Maybe it, you know, maybe we need to have more interviews. Maybe we should have less, you know, so we, we've tweaked and tried these different things. We wrote, we did a couple of guides, the mistakes guides.

We changed the name.

We changed the name, but it still does not get that loop of, hey, this is working. So my thought process after we Talked for about 20 minutes is that I think another thing to try, and I think we may be, and you mentioned as well, is the podcast should be part of a larger system and that system should lean on what we are. I think what, what we are really good at.

Our.

I think our biggest strengths are helping people start a new business, leave an employer, corporate type thing, and giving them the confidence and the skills to go out on their own and then help backing them up and changing the way they think about things, all this stuff, I think that is where we are the most effective versus, okay, you're going to go start up and you're going to go get some venture capital money. I don't know anything about that. You know, I'm just a nuts and bolts guy that grinds it out. You know, has done that over and over and over, tried new things, created companies, sold them, built another company, all that kind of stuff. But so your idea of expanding out and using that outline to build threads on Twitter and to get our following going on there, I think that's a great idea. I think we have to own it. We can't. I don't think we really can use our assistant to do it because we need to tweak it and see what.

Yeah, we need to pave the path. But I will say, like, this show already is part of a bigger system. We already have a Twitter presence. We already have a Facebook presence. We have.

But there's no feedback on it.

Well, that's what I'm saying is. But. But it's not because the lack of feedback isn't because we're not part. A bigger system. We are. Yeah, we. You know, the problem is that no part of the system is working.

Feedback.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And why, like, you know, at first I thought, okay, well, may, you know, and this is when I say it first, I'm, you know, 18 months into this show, which again, was 18 months into gig Gab as well. Right. So, you know, I kind of have a bit of a control group here, right, to look at. But 18 months into gig gab, neither show, which is 18 months into this one, neither show was really getting any traction. You know, it was like, okay. And I remember you and I had this conversation. Paul and I, we've had it many times. We had that conversation over there, like, is this worth it? And I'm like, no, man. Like, we got to stay the course. Trust me on this. Right. And. But. But I would say trust me to you, I would say trust me to Paul, but in the back of my head, I'm like, why in the world should they trust me? Like, I've done.

You're the expert, dude.

Well, I know I've done it once with Matt Geek Gab and had wild success. But, like, I don't. I mean, I sort of know how we did that, but I don't know everything about how we did that. Like, there were a bunch of happy accidents. Right. You know that.

Yes.

That all led to this thing. We made some decisions, but we certainly didn't make all of them. You know, it just sort of happened. And so in the back of my head I'm thinking, crap, like, am I a one hit wonder with this kind of thing? Is this it? And I've talked to other podcasters who have kind of taken a similar path and they're like, oh, no, the show that. Growing a show 17, 18 years ago was much easier than building the core audience. 17, 18 years ago was much easier than building a core audience today. Now are the same people listening to MGG today that were back then. Some, but certainly not the majority. However, you build up enough critical mass, those people start telling other people, even when those initial people fall off, the new people are already there. And it becomes. I mean, you have to feed it and nurture it. But, you know, it's easier. Right? You know, it's easier to keep the garden growing than to start a new garden. Yeah, yeah. But now seven, eight years in GIGG is getting that feedback loop. It's not huge. But we're also not a Q and A show like Matt Geek Gab is. But Giggab is seeing that, like, we are a thing. People come to us when we skip a week, which we do sometimes. You were far less diligent on that show than we are on this show. When we skip a week, we either hear about it from people while we're not, you know, on the weeks that we're not doing the show, or when it comes back, we get, oh, thank goodness you were back. I was having withdrawal. Like, those are literal comments that we got. We took a three week break recently because of just a lot of different things that were going on in our mutual schedules that sort of screwed things up.

Yeah.

But people are like, thank goodness you're back. Then we came back, I guess last week was our first episode back and then in this one week, we got like eight pieces of mail from people about all kinds of different things. It was like, oh, wow, there was pent up demand. Like, this is crazy. Yeah. So like, we are doing. We aren't. I don't want to say, I don't want to say we're doing something wrong here, but we're not doing enough right here.

Yeah.

And I would agree. The problem is I have no friggin clue what right is. So we got, we just got to keep at it. But we can't just, we can't just, like, we've done enough of the bullheaded persistence. We're just gonna keep doing it. Bullheaded persistence has not gotten us there with this show. But, but we haven't. I, I feel like we haven't let it evolve as much as it could, Shannon. And I think part of that is our. We feed each other's control freak. Maybe I don't know this for certain. I'm saying it like I'm certain, but this is literally a thought that's formulating as the words are coming out. We both love to control things, and therefore we come into this, we come into each episode with hard and fast ideas about what we're going to talk about. And I wonder if that makes it too cold.

Stiff.

Too stiff. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, maybe, maybe next week we should just show up.

That's a great.

Not prep anything. At least not intentionally prep anything. Some things will happen in our lives between now and then that, that we will talk about. Like, I, I didn't prep the, the, the whole, you know, weight loss thing that I talked about at the beginning of the show. But as I was sitting down today, I'm like, well, you know, that really was a system. I should. Like, this is how we use our business brain. Like, let's. Okay, I'm in. You know, and I, I. You didn't know what I was going to tell. Talk about until we came on the show. I don't know that we have to necessarily or intentionally surprise each other that that's a good thing. I think when, when it happens and it works, we can talk, you know, for a few minutes before we record. Like, hey, I want to talk about this today. I want to talk about this. But maybe we prep less and see how that goes. It might be. Yeah, it might be awful, man. Like, I don't know.

Well, you never know. You never know.

Of course we would love your feedback on all of this, but we all, we do know that this is our problem to solve.

Yeah.

So.

And, and I think that we could also see, like, I would love to open it up to interviews again, but I don't want to have people that are seeking. I don't want to have people on that are seeking to be interviewed by us. Does that make sense?

I totally know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to have business owners on.

I don't want people shilling. I don't want people whose primary goal is to just come on and shill. I want people who want to help and, and teach you things. But part of that, that, that really is a. Requires the feedback loop because we gotta be able to hear from you guys and say, hey, you know, that interview sucked. What? It was like, why did you subject us to that?

Exactly.

You know, like, maybe that gets us to a point where if we do an interview with someone, if we think there's some value in it, we'll still publish it. But the intro, we say, hey, look, this is gonna be one of those interviews that you think sucks. And parts of it do. Like, maybe. I mean, maybe we just need more care.

Tell your guest that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this interview, you weren't that, but you had. You did say some good things. And so we're going to share those with our listeners. Like, I, you know, I don't know.

Well, and maybe that's a good thing is. Is to change the way the interview is in the sense that we could have an interview and then you and I could. We could record that, but then we could dip in and talk about it and say, you know, where this was. What did you think of this? Well, when they talked about this, I thought that was just. And then let's play it and come back and talk about it again, and then we could dissect the interview after the fact. You know, that would be an interesting way to. To do it.

People would never want to come on this show.

Never know. No. You know, we don't got to be a jerk about it.

Right.

We're both pretty savvy about, you know. Yeah. And it's okay to disagree. I mean, I think that's. I think.

Yeah, but when you. When somebody gets into shill mode, like, yeah, you know, that's.

That I don't like.

And. And we. And that's part of why. That's a big part of why we stopped doing so many interviews was too.

Many coaches, too many courses that everybody. That's. Who wanted to come on the show. And it's like, we had a few of those, but. Well, not. Not so much.

Not so much.

I didn't. I didn't think it was that great. So in the same vein that we're talking about right now, trying to figure out how to increase engagement, create this good feedback loop, we changed it. And I said, okay, we're just not going to have people on anymore, and we'll. We'll focus on. And I. I do think we saw an uptick in downloads, and we did.

And the longevity, like the percentage of an episode that people listen to, that. That's one thing. We can see that only from Apple Podcasts, meaning if you use the Apple Podcasts app, it does tell us that. It doesn't tell Us who you are or anything like that. But it does tell us how long, how much of the episode on average people listen to. And we absolutely saw those numbers be much higher when it was just the two of us talking versus the crappy interviews that we had. Some of the. Some of the interviews, the good ones, you know which ones. Those were those you folks listened all the way to the end. Absolutely. As I would, you know, but, yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe we just. We just need to be more ourselves here, and maybe that sounds great.

I'm all for it.

I don't know. Let's try it, you know, and push.

Out in some other venues to see what kind of, if any, traction that we can get. Use our. Like you said, use our content in some different ways.

Yeah.

And see what we can get going with that and perhaps reach out to some people that would teach us some of these different ways to engage and to grow our followers, all that kind of stuff, and try to build this larger ecosystem of really connecting with people that want help. Yeah, that's really what I want.

That's where we are. Yeah. Yeah, I'm. I'm a. Yeah, that's. I mean, my whole thing is I want to help people. That's. That's. That's what I do on. That's what I think I do on this show, and I. I know I do on the other shows, so. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

No, that's good. So let's keep talking about this. Next week will be no prep. We're just gonna roll right into it, see what's happening. I mean, we follow enough of this stuff every day that there's plenty to talk about, what's going on in the economy, what's, you know, your business, your experience, your interactions with businesses around. So, yeah, I'm all for it. Let's do it.

Same.

I just want to keep trying new things.

We have to. And. And we'll figure out what works. You folks hopefully will tell us what works. You already tell us what doesn't. At least we think you do. But maybe, maybe, just maybe we're obsessing over the wrong thinking here. Maybe the. The business audience doesn't respond. I don't. I don't know. It's my first business show I've ever done. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you folks are, you know, too occupied running your businesses to write us an email. And if that's. That, if that's the case, that's okay. Like, I don't want to discourage you from listening. I just want to figure out what we can do to push your buttons so that you want to tell us things. And I don't mean like, we don't want to turn into shock jocks here. Like, I want to do this in a productive, like, helpful way. So. But we are here to help. If you have questions, feedback at businessbrain show, we. We really are honestly that candidly. Not honestly. Also honestly, but. But continuing in my path of honesty, candidly, if even one of you reached out and said, hey, I'm having a problem in my business, what do you guys think? If that happened this week, that would blow me away and probably you too, Shannon. Like that warm my heart. Yeah, exactly. So if you want to give us a gift, that's the gift. Let us help you. There it is. Thanks for hanging out with us, folks. Visit shopify.comsbs to get your 14 day trial. And thank you you, Shannon, for going with me on this crazy thing. Yeah, thank you. Keep living that charm life. We'll see you next week.