Being Productive at Conferences, selling on eBay and Motivation vs. Discipline – Small Business Show Episode 131

The Small business show episode 131 for Wednesday, August 9, 2017. Greetings, folks, and welcome to the small business show. The show by, for and about small business owners here in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton and in the San.

Francisco Bay area, I'm Shannon Jean. How are you, man?

I am flat out crazy with stuff in my schedule today, but that's good.

Congratulations.

Thanks.

Because that's awesome.

Yeah, it is. It is awesome.

Yeah. We always talk about how, you know, being busy, you know, keeps you hustling and keeps things going. And I mean, like, you, like we often say, I wouldn't have it any other way, so.

Right. Hey, I always say it's it being busy is better than the alternative. But I don't actually know that because I haven't really experienced the alternative. You, in a sense, you're experiencing a change in that, and I want to talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about that too. Yeah. Because it's definitely for me a shift in how my business life works and everything. But I mentioned last week the ebay open event, that conference they recently held in Vegas, and I wanted to talk a few minutes about that and then we'll jump into this other topic.

Yeah, sure.

We allude to a little bit, but. So one of the things I've been involved in with ebay for about 18 years, you know, done a ton of business with them, been involved with things and been lots of ups and downs, you know, prior to a couple years ago, probably more downs than anything else, because some of the decisions they were making, I thought were not that great.

Sure.

But a couple years ago, they got a new CEO, really kind of blown up their culture, brought them back to what makes them unique and really valuing their seller partners, which I think they kind of neglected to do for a number of years and really took it as, you know, their attitude for a long time was really, this is, hey, this is our business. We are selling these things, we are offering these services, when in fact, it was really, you know, primarily small business owners that were up there on the site selling their products and that kind of thing. So the main thing, I'm going to talk about a couple things they're offering, but if you sell products and you've been away from ebay for a while, I think it's definitely time to take another look at the marketplace and to reach out to them and try to connect with some of their folks, because I think there's some great opportunities coming. They're really reinvigorated they really value the seller community again, which is fantastic. And they're coming out, they put some new things together that I think are really worth looking into that is going to change how you do business. One of the things that they, that they've really embraced is the small business. They have a new award program they call the Shine Awards, where every year people nominate and you can nominate yourself or anybody can nominate you. And they give out awards for different small business types, whether it's minority owned, women owned business, nonprofit, fastest growing on the ebay platform, that kind of stuff. So they're really gotten back to their roots of celebrating the small business owners, which is what we do on this show. And I went to the show, we've got a new business that we launched after selling our company and I wanted to take my wife who's going to be involved in it. So we went to the show and I'd been a number of times to. They used to have a thing called ebay live and then they killed that and didn't do anything for about five years. And now they've brought this event back, which is definitely worth going to all kinds of workshops. You get to meet all their execs. I mean, you can. There's not very many marketplaces where you can, you know, walk up to a VP or a senior, you know, vice president and really have a conversation about your business and how it works on or it doesn't work on their platform. And this show is one of those things. You can get some great connections and reach out to some very influential folks.

Yeah, yeah, the people making the decisions as opposed to having to walk in the front door and never getting to talk to those people. As you're telling this story, it's fascinating to me how many parallels there are between this, what you're talking about, which is ebay, and their relationship with their sellers and Apple and their relationship with their developers. Because there was a time when Apple neglected their developers like crazy and they would still have their developer conference, but it was not like, not the way that it is today. And then there was a pivot point at which point they were like, no, these are the people that are the future of our business. And it sounds like ebay's doing the same thing. And what I will say is the developers that showed up and engaged right away when Apple sort of made it obvious and stated that they were doing this got to do exactly what you're talking about, talk with the higher ups, the VPs make those relationships. Now that developers really want to be involved with Apple again and all of that stuff. Those people are around, but they're just by nature, they sort of have to be a little bit distant. But those developers that made those relationships when Apple was reaching out still have them and it has served them insanely well.

So, yeah, that, that, that's. And it goes to the point, you know, making those connections really help your can help your business drive.

And it's really easy for you, like, as a jaded ebay seller, to say, you know what, man, I'll wait a couple. I, I appreciate that you're saying this, but I'm going to wait until I really see the proof in the pudding. And there's going to be a lot of people doing that. But, and, and they're at some level, like, that's not a bad strategy because there's no guarantee that they're going to really follow through on all the stuff that they say they're going to do.

Yep.

But absolutely, if you, if they do follow through and you're one of the ones that reached out now and engaged and got to know those people, it can really pay off for you down the road.

So it can. And just to your point, for years I felt that they were just really kind of, you know, giving you lip service or more accurately, you would meet some great people that really work the trenches and trying to help out the sellers. But they were never able to affect change within their organization.

Sure. Yeah.

And so it was constantly. Everybody would say, oh, yeah, they say all these things, but they're not going to be able to do it.

Right.

And finally, they seem to have a team in place that really does listen. And they've launched a few different services specifically for sellers. One is called their concierge platform, which what they're doing is they're rolling out and they've rolled it out to everybody who went to this conference. There was 1500 sellers. They rolled it out to everybody who showed up.

Okay.

And is, it's, it's an unbelievable. And it's not based on how much you sell, how big you are. It's basically just a much higher level of customer service for solving problems and helping you on your, with your account. And their goal. And what they're going to do is like, hey, we're going to launch it with you guys. And they've already launched it. We've been a part of it for about six months. Okay. But the goal is this is the new level of service we are going to offer everyone. We can't do it. Yet. So we are, we can't offer to, you know, they have, they got to test it out.

Sure, yeah. Yeah.

And so they're going to, they do it to these folks. Everybody who showed up, came to the conference and was there for three days. It was awesome. So your account automatically qualified. So just, you know, to your point of, you know, getting in the door, so to speak, you know, hearing or you know, having them know who you are, that is the number one thing.

Number one. Number one. Yeah. I still have people because we worked with Apple's developer relations very closely when they really started re promoting their WWDC show. And a lot of those people that I worked with unfortunately are gone. Like, you know, sure, they left or they got sacked or whatever, but there's, there's one person that's still really high up there. Not, you might, it's not a name that people out there would know necessarily, but, but it's like somebody that reports to one of those people and, and that relationship has paid off because there's a trust there. Right. We work together for, you know, 15 years now. We know each other. You know, it's not like they tell me secrets, but they know that if they slip up, I'm not gonna screw em, and you know what I mean? Like, like we can just trust each other. That's all it is.

Yeah, yeah. And those folks are typically really happy to help you when you have a problem. When you have a problem.

You know, here's the thing, everybody. There's some sociopaths out there, maybe not. But in general, if you go to somebody and really present to them that you have a problem that they can help you with, and it requires humility on your part and showing some weakness by saying, I have a problem I can't solve, I need your help. Right. And if you can either say those things verbatim or really clearly communicate that idea, most people are going to be open to helping you. They might not have time to help you in the way you need like, you know, don't, don't mix up, you know, your lack of planning for an emergency versus their schedule. But most people are generally going to want to help if they can. That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what I would suggest, you know, when you go to these conferences and you get an opportunity, you know, you hear a speaker or you know, someone on a panel, immediately after they're done, you need to walk up and introduce yourself and just. Hey, I'm Shannon with XYZ company. I really enjoyed your talk. Thank you very Much. If you can get a card from them, even better. And then go walk in the back of the room and launch LinkedIn on your phone and ask for a connection request right away.

While it's pushing their head.

Yep, that's right. And nine times out of 10, they'll connect with you. And, you know, when I met the new CEO, we got brought in and we've been involved for a long time. So they filmed a new ebay commercial, this was about a year and a half ago, and check restore. Got to be in it and I was in it, and it, you know, it was great. We gave them a day a time and they filmed all this stuff. But, man, I was grabbing all these connections of all these, you know, senior folks, and they have helped me solve not only problems for myself, but customers that I sell to. As. As I launched this new, you know, fashion business about a year ago and we talked about on the show and I started wholesaling and working with other dealers, they ran into problems. There's a huge issue, you know, with fashion and luxury items, with authentication.

Right.

And. And so, you know, you're not going to launch a brand new, you know, account on ebay and start selling, you know, 10 grand a month of this product. They just won't. They can't let you do it. They have to vet you, if you will. Interesting.

Yeah.

And so by way of those connections that I had made over the previous year, I was able to really vouch for my customer and they approved this guy's account and, you know, got him going quickly on the platform. And it's just, you know, by reaching out, saying, hey, guys, anything you can do. I know this guy, he's working with me, yada, yada, yada. So making those connections at these type of conferences, it's just powerful.

Oh, it's the best reason to go to any sort of industry conference. I mean, I can sit here and I've done it and I regret it, but I've certainly done it where I've convinced myself there's no value. I'm not going to go to this conference and, and say, like, I'm not going to make money at this conference. It's going to cost me money, in fact, because maybe I need to buy a ticket, but even if the admission is free, still going to put myself in a hotel and, you know, fly out there, whatever. You lost time, meals, all, like, it's really easy to say no. But like you said, man, the best thing, some conferences actually the sessions can teach you things that are Truly valuable. And if they can do that, to me, I know that's the purpose of the conference, at least the stated purpose of most conferences. To me, that's the icing on the cake if I actually learned something at the conference, like, hey, awesome. But it's getting to meet people, you know, and just getting to connect, even with people that you might already know of and who might know of you. Getting to connect on a more human level, that changes everything, especially when you need that help down the road. And to be fair, by putting yourself in that position, you are going to be asked for help with things as well, just like you said. Yeah, that's okay. Help people, you'll want to. It's all good.

Yeah. And I kind of call it working the buffet line. Right? You always have. They always provide food and it's all these people. And at an ebay conference, it's great because the intro line is, hey, what do you sell? And everybody likes to talk about what they sell. And I talk about the show. I mean, I talked about my business and stuff and the transition that we're going through now. But I'm saying, oh, you know, I also do a small business podcast every week and you know, what do you. I'd love to have you guys on and talk. So, you know, I brought back connections with about a dozen people that now I can come back and you know, we want to have on the show and, and talk to them. So I mean, that's the connection you, you make. And it's, it's, it's invaluable. Oh, it's huge to all these, all these folks. So, you know. Yeah, so I really would, I mean, if you've got a product and you can push it out, you know, eBay's got 171 million buyers now. And especially if your product is unique, you know, for years they try to compete with Amazon and be, oh, we've got everything else kind of stuff. But that's not their power. Their real power is like I needed, I'm into pinball machines and I moved one of my older pinballs from my warehouse back to my house and there was some parts I needed and everything. And you know, a two second eBay search brings up, you know, this is a pinball machine made in like 1994 and I found every part that I needed, a complete refurb kit, all this kind of stuff, new rubber, everything immediately. And that's their power, is the depth of their catalog is, is impressive. So if you have some obscure item or some Something that you, you know, want to get out in the marketplace. I highly recommend you take a look. I don't want to spend too much time on the show going over all kind of some of their new initiatives, but some of the stu have coming out. One of my I want to mention is that they're offering a new authentication program for luxury goods. So if you're selling handbags, watches, whatever, that has a designer brand, you know, one of the problems is, you know, they're trying to get people out of the marketplace that are selling, you know, replicas and knockoffs. So now coming up this fall, as a seller, you'll have the option to add an authentication service to your listing or as a, or a, as a buyer, if the seller didn't offer it, you can then add it to your listing and it's going to be a couple bucks. But you know, when you're buying a high end item, $500, thousand, couple thousand bucks or whatever it is, and you want to be sure it'll route it through their authentication service before they forward it to you so it gets inspected.

Wow.

It's really going to be powerful.

What a great. I can see where that's currently a huge problem for them.

Yeah.

And this solves it.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And then one of the other things I really loved about the show, they gave us a bunch of sneak peeks of what they're coming down the line and they built their catalog up so strong over the last few years is soon in any, you'll be able to grab any photograph online or take a photograph with your phone and press one button to search on ebay via the photo.

What?

Yeah, it's unbelievable. So you see a pair of shoes or boots or whatever you want. You know, you take the photo and just down in your, in your, you know, your photo app on your phone where there's a little square with the arrow pointing up where you can send it, message it, share it or whatever, it's going to be tied into iOS and the eBay link will be right there. And you click that link, it's going to go right to ebay and search for that item via the image. And it works. It's unbelievable.

I can totally see it. Yeah, I mean image search is sort of a proven quantity. Now you can. So tying it in like this and it totally makes sense.

Yeah. So the integration is great. And the last thing is if you sell, if you have a Shopify store, there's been ebay plugins for a while that work and everything. But now They've built in a direct integration with Shopify that you can push and pull your ebay listings and sales and inventory and keep track of quantities. So it's really powerful for small business to get out there on that platform. Yes, you're going to pay selling fees, but they, they, you know, they're gonna, they give you that exposure and you, you can then own that customer after, you know, get that first sale on ebay.

Selling fee on ebay is, is your advertising fee. Yeah, that's it in a sense. Yeah.

You're paying for the customer one way or another.

It's your customer acquisition fee. If you're smart. If, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of people that continue to pay the customer acquisition fee even on the same customer over and over again because they just have their stores on ebay. Then you know what, if you're making money doing that, it's fine.

Yeah, build your infrastructure, but yeah, exactly. Once you ship a product, use the box and put some marketing material or some information, try to get that customer to sign up to your newsletter or keep their information. So then you can try to move them to your Shopify store or whatever you have. And you know, it works out great. But you know, and don't forget the box is your salesperson. Right. That's your first, your first true physical interaction with the customer. So don't grab some crummy looking box or whatever. Don't recycle boxes. I mean, unless. So we used to recycle boxes, but we had a sticker made that we would put on the box to tell people we were recycling and why we were doing it. Of course. Yeah, we just pointed out instead of somebody going, oh man, they sent me an old Amazon box. Well, that's great. But let's recognize the fact that, hey, we're trying to save the planet here and we're recycling. You'll get a good warm feeling from a customer that way. This is just using some, some junky old box. So, so create, you know, you can mass produce a personal note in your box, but you have to use that as a way, a vehicle to try to connect with your customer a little bit more. So especially on marketplaces. But anyway, so we'll, we'll post some links up on the, on the, the Business Show Co website and in the Facebook small business support group for the more about ebay. But it was a great show. I highly recommend.

Great. That's exciting, man. That's cool. Yeah. When you said you wanted to talk about this, I'M like, how that, what, that's. What does that segment look like now? I know, and I'm actually really happy with that.

Yeah, there's a lot of tangents in, in it that we could go into and, you know, getting connected with people and, you know, using this, using this technology to help with your small business.

That's awesome. So, you know, I woke up today and as I do, I generally go through feeds and like news feeds and read a bunch of stuff, industry things or business things or whatever. Some of it to help guide maybe the day's content at Mac observer, but others just to, you know, get my head in the game and all that stuff. And I had at least three different articles this morning that all were talking about the dangers of relying on motivation. And the gist is this, you know, motivation is something you have to generate within yourself, right? And so it requires energy, right, to think about, okay, I need to rev myself up, I need to psych myself up. I need to get motivated to do this. And eventually, you know, like, if somebody keeps poking you in the side with a fork, the first time, you're going to move. Right. But if somebody literally did that 500 times in a row, you would develop like a scar and you'd stop feeling it. And so the problem with motivation is you have to keep upping your game in order to be motivated at the same level. And so relying on motivation, and this was the sort of, the point of these, like I said, it was three different articles from totally different places all saying the same thing. Relying on motivation is a dangerous game.

It's not enough.

No. And it's not going to last you long term. The trick is discipline. Right? And this is very similar to our concept that, you know, we talked about with that Scott Adams book about developing systems, because systems are, you know, one way of implementing discipline. I get up and I do this, or at 4 o' clock on Tuesdays, I go to the gym. You know, whatever that is. If you need motivation to go to the gym, there's going to be days when you're just like, nah, I can't do it. But if it's on your schedule at 4 o' clock on Tuesdays, it's like, well, that's, that's just discipline. I just follow my schedule.

Yeah, it's just like this podcast. We know we meet at this time every week. And when we, even when we first started, one of the key things you had said is, hey, the key thing is consistency and discipline. We need to do it this time every Week and again, build up this track record of being here at this time every week so people know where to.

Where to find you, you know, and it's funny. Today of all days, I don't have time to do this show. And I was actually thinking this about a half hour before we did the show, but never. And I. I had that. I really don't have time to do that show today. But I. I never even thought maybe I should call Shannon and cancel or reschedule or whatever. Certainly there have been times when each of us has had to reschedule, but it's not because we're crunched for time generally, it's like, we're not here. I can't make it back. I've got to, you know, whatever. Something came up. But. But with this, it's like, yeah, I just have too much on my plate today. I don't have time for the show. But it's like, well, but it's on the. It's right there. It's on the calendar. Just go do it. That's it.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, and I agree, and I'm in this transition right now. I was just making a comment, you know, we have this.

Yeah, that's right. Because you had. You had external motivation every day to make sure you were at the office.

Yeah, exactly. And a whole team here that required me to be disciplined so I could be here for them.

Right.

And I had to get myself into the office and make sure things were rolling and all this kind of stuff. And so now that team is in a different state. You know, we've sold the business. And I. And today I made the comment was the first day I walked in after about a month of this transition where the place is completely empty. Well, I have my dog here, so that's always. He's. He's a big support group here.

Yeah.

But, you know, walking around, it's like, oh, man, this is. This is done. This really happened. You know, and now, you know, in another few weeks, I'm going to be transitioning. I won't have a building right now because the building I'll be, you know, running my new business out is in another state as well, in Texas. And so I'm going to have to have that discipline from working from my house, which, like you've been doing for a long time. You've got your studio and I have, you know, separate studio as well. But it's. It's going to be an interesting transition to develop a new and entirely new set of systems.

Yes.

To keep me. I'm highly motivated. There's no doubt about it. But I definitely lack discipline sometimes. There's. There's. You know, I always am on myself. Like, come on, you got to get it done. Got to get it done. You know, Keep yourself going.

Yep. No, and I have the same issue. And I've been doing this, you know, out of my home for almost 20 years now. And you need that routine. Like, it was like, this morning. I mean, I had a bunch of stuff to do, but I had nothing on my schedule. And I don't know why, but as I was heading over to the office, walking out the door of the house, across the driveway to the office, and I even thought, like, why am I doing this? I mean, I knew I had stuff to do, but I just noticed myself just, this is my habit. I go over there, and that's where I work. I could work on my couch. I could work anywhere. But it's like, nope, I'm going over there and I'm going to do my stuff, and I have a plan for the day and all this stuff. But it's like, well, that comes from. That's my plan. Nobody's forcing me to do this, but. But I'm also not really forcing me to do this. I'm just following the system that I've set up. I got up, I had, you know, a quick breakfast, a little bit of juice. Actually, that's why I thought about it. I'm like, I don't need juice this morning. I'm gonna skip juice. And that's what made me realize, sort of suddenly I was aware of this pattern that I was in, you know, because I broke one piece of it. It was like, that's pretty. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. I mean, I didn't stop. I just came over, I did my stuff. Stuff, you know.

Yep.

But. But, yeah, you set that up.

Yeah, you do. And part of my systems, you know, I would roll into the office and, you know, I'd grab some coffee and go to my desk, and the first place I would start was maxsurfer.com. that was. That was always my spot. And so, you know, and then I read it, and then I would jump on my feed and reader, and I would, you know, have all the other articles and stuff. Trying to, again, just like you, what's going on in my world here in.

The world that matters. Yep.

Apple world for, you know, my primary business. And lately, you know, and I've kind of kept doing that. And I was like, I don't really need to do this anymore. And I just started thinking about this morning. It's like I got to set up a bunch of. A whole new set of feeds that will, you know, launch my day, if you will, because I do a very similar thing. I need to be aware of what's going on and you know, what, what's in this new market that I'm operating in and how do I do this and else is doing, you know, what, what are the trends? That's one thing I really need to learn about these new trends for this new business venture and all that kind of stuff. So it is really interesting and we'll have to. I would love to continue to revisit this transition along the way because primarily for selfish reasons, because it will make sure that I am making.

That you're not just throwing it up.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, by the pool, Dave.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's like I thought that today, I mean, I have so much to do that I will not get everything done that I need to today. It's fine. I mean, that's sort of normal. But today was a little bit overwhelming. I've got this weird schedule with the thing later today and stuff, and it was like I could just. I could punt on the day and probably feel just as productive tonight as I would if I did as much as I could and still am not going to get to all the things in the way that I need to. But that wasn't an option. It was just like, well, I'm going to. This is my system. And I think the trick to a system and the trick to discipline is getting yourself set up so that you really don't notice that you're doing. I mean, for you, yeah, it's like breathing. You have to be intentional right now because you're carving out and creating an entirely new system. And so, so much of it is going to be you looking at yourself, figuring out how to hack your own mind into doing the things that. That aren't natural or, you know, whatever. Whatever all that is. So you've got to be like, hyper aware for a little while and then suddenly you're gonna forget, you know, you're gonna realize that six months went by and you're doing the same thing every day, at least in structure, you know?

Yes.

Yeah, that's the. That's a good thing. As long as. As long as that structure is built with intention.

Yeah, well, and I think we each have to search for our own currency. And, And I'm not just talking about money. It could be money, right. It could be how you rate your, like, I I guy. So for years, I would always rate my day on what are the numbers look like, you know, because. But then I realized that that didn't encompass enough. And as I moved up into management and running a couple different businesses and all that kind of stuff, it was. Became more important, my interactions with my team, that became my currency. Did I talk to everybody today? What projects are moving forward, you know, and using these other tools, like Slack, you know, did I communicate with everybody and did I. You kind of. You, you kind of flip it on its head. You wind up serving them, right?

Yes. Oh, totally.

They're, they're, they're running your business and you are trying to enable them as much as you possibly can to achieve whatever they need to, to be successful. And then in turn, your business is successful and hopefully you are too, right?

Yeah. They're doing stuff for you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So finding what your currency is and what motivates you. And for me, you know, it'. It's kind of funny, you know, I always barter with myself. Like, okay, as long as I adult for this number of hours today, I can then screw around. I can go do whatever I want to do, you know, and maybe, you know, hanging out, maybe, you know, playing basketball with my kid, maybe, you know, working in my garden, whatever I want to do, whatever project I have, I'm not going to enjoy it as much unless I really knock these things out that are part of my system and that has driven me forever. And so it will be an interesting transition to see, you know, how we move into these new.

When Bob Levitis was on the show, he. Because he's got that book that, that Working Smarter.

Yeah, Working Smarter.

And he talked about that Pomodoro technique. Right.

That's. I think that's powerful.

And, and that's similar to what you're saying here, where you're, you're making this barter with yourself. Like, if I, you know, you, you just put the umbrella term on it. If I adult for X number of minutes, hours, whatever, then I'm okay. Like that, that barter works for you, and that, that's that same sort of concept. I think the Pomodoro technique is, is much shorter chunks of time because most people don't have the discipline. Yeah, exactly. To say, all right, I'll do hours. So it's minutes, but that's fine. You know, there you go. Or 25 minutes.

Whatever works. You change it out.

You figure it out.

Yeah. If you need a 10 minute, you know, to do whatever. I mean, you know, if you need to jump on your social media or Facebook or go do something else, but, you know, you got to knock out these tasks, set that, you know, little timer like Bob, you know, recommended. I thought that was a great idea.

Yep.

Because we all know it's easy to slip down a rabbit hole and go, oh man, where did that hour go? You know, and I always worry about that, you know, losing that time, you know, constantly looking at it and saying, okay, you know, I got to make the most of it and achieve these things today and see where I'm at. But I think it's also important. You have to be realistic. You know, you make the comment, and I make this all the time. There's no way I'm going to get it all done today.

Right.

But that's normal, you know, that you're then setting up your next day.

It is. Right.

Rolling into that.

The good news is that you now know what you're going to have to do tomorrow, which as a small business owner, you know, it's. If you are someone that needs to be told what to do tomorrow or forget about tomorrow. If you're someone that needs to be told or wants to be told what to do tomorrow, today. Don't take this the wrong way, folks. You're an employee and I don't say that derogatorily. I'm just category, I'm putting this all into buckets. That if you're the type of person that says I know or I want to do this today, and I put a big asterisk on want, like for the benefit of my business, I want to do this today, then that is the sign of someone that's an entrepreneur.

Yeah. Well, and I think it's great. And, and we, we could do a whole show and maybe we should.

I think we should. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, the, the difference between. And I know we've talked about a little before, but we can probably dig a little deeper in the difference between, you know, employees, business owners, and also, you know, self employed people. There really is a difference. Yes. And we can talk about those traits because they're all awesome. I mean, we need every different type of person. Not one is better than another, they're just different.

No, it requires all the types in order for all of them to succeed.

You got it.

Yeah.

So we'll jump in and, and spend some more time on this because, because I would definitely love, you know, get your take on it and, and how, if you want to how to move.

From one to the other to the next. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you've got to want it. Yeah, yeah.

You gotta be. You gotta be disciplined.

What happens if I have a moment in my day where I just want to be an employee, Shannon?

Well, for a little while, but you got to get me. You got to jump back in.

You got to jump back in. I know. There's no getting out. It's a trap. It is a trap, folks. You can find us at BusinessShow Co, and you can find us on Facebook. BusinessShow Co Facebook, where we have our small business support group. And like we said, episode 132 next week will have some fun stuff in it, too. So that's all I got for today. How about you, man?

Me too, man. I always enjoy hanging out and. Enjoy the rest of your week, everybody.

Thanks. Yep. Keep living that charmed life, Shannon.