Building a Peer Group, Safety Nets and Hiring Your First Employee

Business Brain, the show for entrepreneurs. In fact, it's Business Brain, the Entrepreneurs podcast, episode 408 for Wednesday, November 30, 2022. Greetings folks and welcome to Business Brain, the show. Like I said, for entrepreneurs. Sponsors for this episode include Shopify, where shopify.com SBS will get you your 14 day trial. We'll talk more in depth about Shopify in a minute. For now, using my business brain here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And I'm getting ready to use my business brain here in Lafayette, California. I've been doing other stuff this morning, but now I'm ready.

Now you're ready. It happens. Yes. Yeah, it happens. It does. Life's distractions. I don't know, even, even in life I find I'm using my business brain often. So it's just kind of goes yeah, yeah, yeah.

I guess it's a, A, a way of thinking all the time. I just got back, you know, we had our Thanksgiving holiday. We were up at Lake Tahoe and had a lot of people around with us and I, I talked business like a lot. No, not like a lot, a lot. And I, it's, I really enjoy it. I love it. And some of my cousins that were up there are all, you know, serial entrepreneurs that have tried many, many different things, failed many times, succeeded sometimes. And so being around people that you can have those discussions with is really rewarding and challenging as well. It's, you know, challenging some of the.

The, my own assumptions.

Yeah. Things that, the way I think things are and listening to the way that, you know, the way other people see it. Yeah, it was really rewarding. I really enjoy it.

No, you're, you're right. It is rare for people in, in our shoes to find other people to talk with. And it's, it's not that we're special or anything. I mean, I think I'm special, but. Yeah, but it's just that where less common. Right. You know, if I wind up at a barbecue, you know, in my neighborhood, most of my neighbors are, you know, work for someone else. Like we did this thing. One of my neighbors every year on Thanksgiving morning organizes what they call the. Well, there's a street near me they name it after. But it's like the Thanksgiving, they call it the plotter where everybody just gets together with coffee and their dogs and their kids and just walks like a loop around the neighborhood at like 9am on Thanksgiving. The idea is. That's really cool. Yeah, you get up, you go out, you see your neighbors before you put the turkey in, and then everybody sort of goes on their separate ways for the day, and it's great. I went. And it was. It's fine. And it was actually really nice. It was more than fine. It was fantastic to get out and see people. But the conversations, you know, they asked me what I'm up to, and it's like, okay, well, I'm going to tell you, but it's going to be.

But you're not.

Yeah, it's going to be so different that I'm gonna keep it short. You know, I'm not gonna go in depth on this. Let's talk about our kids. Ask me about my kids, what they're up to. It's much easier to say, my daughter's living in Italy, which is equally as. Like, people look at you with your. Like, your head screwed on wrong or something when you say that, but at least it's something they can understand. And I remember. I mean, it's happened several times. I have one friend who was literally a billionaire. You'd never know it if you met him. And I called him and asked him for advice about something. And compared to what he deals with on a regular basis, what I was asking about was nothing. It was a huge deal to me. But in comparison, I expected it to be nothing to him. Like, hey, man, do you. You know, if you have some time, I'd really appreciate your advice.

Yeah.

And he was so excited. And we spent like an hour and a half on the phone together digging into my stuff. And I was like, man, thank you so much. He's like, are you kidding me? He's like, I have no one else I can talk to about this. You know, he. In fact, he said, he made a comment. He's like, I'm an old white guy with a jet. He said, you know, 50 years ago, that was a good thing. Nowadays, I might as well say, I'm Hitler. He's like, I just can't talk to people about this. I'm like, yeah, I get it. Like, I told. And so he. Like, it is important. Where I'm going with this is it's important to find people, fellow business owners, people that think like you, or at least similar in the same realm as you, that can challenge you and that you can challenge and have honest conversations as opposed to having to do, like, what I did with my neighbors was like, oh, yeah, business is good. You know, we sold this business this year and this, that, and the other thing. And then like that.

Like, yeah, yeah, I think it is critically important. To get. You need to build that peer group around you. It is one of the reasons why I enjoy this show so much because I get, I can talk with you about this stuff. We get feedback from our, our, our listeners, which we've been getting more and more and again, great engagement. And it, it keeps, it keeps me sharp. And you can do it different ways. You know, we've had people on here that business owners that are. They paid to be part of, you know, various groups. We've had the business owner of one of those groups on the show before the CEO roundtable. I guess it is.

Yeah.

And that's great. And I love that too, and that's very important. But, but one thing I really took my takeaway from this weekend was being in a casual environment where. And also we're all in the same building. We're in my house.

Sure.

And, and so you would have this conversation. You know, maybe you're having a, a beer cocktail, something like that. Or in the morning, you get up and you're having coffee and you're making breakfast together and getting things done, and you get to continue and kind of pick at, hey, you mentioned this last night and I thought about this. And you know, what about that? Or hey, here's a resource for you. That's one thing I noticed. We were exchanging resources here. Here's a guy. You should, you should do this. And then one, one of the people that were there was talking about they're starting a business to connect. I guess there's some funds left from COVID Recovery, all about employee retention.

I've heard about this. Yeah. Is this something we can talk about? Like, do you know about this?

A little bit? Apparently there. If, if your business revenue dropped a certain percentage. Okay, don't hold me to that might be 50, it might be 70. I don't know what it is.

Sure, sure.

It could be 30. And you kept your employees, a certain percentage of your employees employed. You can, you would be eligible to get some access to some funds. I think it's grant money to help you recover from COVID And there's, there's. I'm sure there's a bunch of restrictions, but the, the business opportunity for this person I was talking to was that, well, a lot of these small businesses don't know about this. It's not promoted. So we want, we, we want to help them and get, help them get access and get through the, you know, the red tape and all that kind of stuff. And of course, I mentioned, well, you know, I happen to host a Podcast that reaches, you know, thousands and tens of thousands of small business owners every week. And I should give you the name of my advertising company.

Yeah.

Because so we go. So it's great. Just, it's just kind of a, there's just, it's in the air, you know, and you're intermingling different ideas. And I certainly didn't go there to pitch anything and they didn't go there to pitch me anything. You know, we're just kind of talking about ideas and what we think of things. Everything from crazy restaurant ideas to, you know, this Covid recovery stuff. So I really enjoy it and I highly recommend it that you put the effort as a small business owner, entrepreneur, startup, founder, to surround yourself with a group of people that can think like you. You don't necessarily need to work with you or.

No, no. In fact, it's almost.

They don't.

It's. Yeah. I mean, if it works out that you wind up doing something together, so be it. But it's almost better if, if there is that arm's length distance between your businesses. Like you want to be close as people, but your businesses, if they're the more unrelated they are, the better. Because that way you're not getting advice that's even potentially self serving in one direction or another. It's just correct. It's like what you and I do, I mean, you and I have some businesses obviously that are together and then others that have nothing to do with one another. And it's the conversations I actually look forward to the conversations about the latter. The businesses that have nothing to do with each other more than are like, oh yeah, okay, crap, we gotta do stuff for the show. Okay. I mean, that's fine.

A different insight, but.

It's a different insight. Yeah, yeah.

And I find like to your point about talking to your neighbors and I love people, it's awesome. And I, you know, I, I go to the dog park every day and talk with people. Hang. We have a certain group we hang out with and. But I find as I always talk about on the show, I love storytelling. So when they ask me, you know, what you've done, what was, what's your career? Da da, da. Well, I have a certain kind of set of stories that I tell because I think it's, it's easier to give it out in snippets because if you, like you said, if you start talking about this very wide breadth of things you're working on, things you've tried, things you succeeded at, things you've failed. Two things Happen. In my experience, one is they get this glazed over look and they're just like, this guy's a total flake. Because they don't know me and they don't know that, oh, we have been somewhat successful and some of these things actually worked. And so you get that to happen or they get this kind of excited look on their face and they, they don't, they can't believe some of the things that I'm telling them. And so they're excited about that. Well, neither of those things are, are super helpful. I mean, it's fun to convince someone that you're not a super flake. And it's kind of fun to get people asking how you did all this stuff.

Right.

But those are great. But it doesn't sharpen your business brain.

You know, usually, I mean, sometimes if somebody asks, wait, how does that work? I like those conversations because it forces me to do some reflection. I mean, it's that whole. You learn when teaching is one of the best ways to learn something. Right. You know, as I'm teaching someone else, I learn way more because I have to take what I know. And I mean, this isn't me, this is everybody. When you teach something, you have to take what you know and rephrase it. You have to process it so that you know it cold. And usually the process of telling someone that is, you know, really helps to cement that. And I often have insights in those conversations, but those are rare. It's. It. Generally speaking, my neighbors aren't like, wait, how does that work? You know, I've had a few.

Yeah.

And then they wind up, usually those people wind up going into business for themselves eventually, which is great. You know, it's like, yeah, hopefully you've.

Helped them with us. You know, the way you tell a story and I always, I always, you know, add the phrase like, well, you know, after I tell them the story, and they're like, wow, that's incredible. You did that. And like, well, remember, it's like talking about your kids now that they're grown.

You, you, you, you kind of gloss over the.

Yeah, gloss over all the rough edges here.

Yes.

I was in the heavy equipment business and I drove a 45 ton crane down from one part of California to the next, yada, yada, yada. And you know, all this crazy stuff that I've tried to do, but you're only getting the fine points. The very highlight reel stuff. Yeah, the highlight reel. That's exactly. And my wife is, if my wife is there, I could see her kind of rolling her eyes because she's heard these stories, you know, countless times.

Same. Yeah.

And then. But if someone's new in the crowd, I, you know, it's like, oh, here we go.

I know. I have my, my list of. I have my set list. I just thought start crossing things.

Yeah, I like that it's a set list.

It's a set list, but it's great.

And so definitely need to connect with a group, you know, one way or another. I think the casual way is really powerful, but maybe the pros can help you as well.

Hey, you ever go to one of those comedy open mic nights? One thing that's really cool about those is that they make it possible for anyone to step up and try stand up. And the thing I love about our sponsor, Shopify is how it's the all in one commerce platform that makes it simple for anyone to step up, start, run and grow a successful business. Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone from anywhere. So whether your thing is vintage teas or recipes for ghee, start selling with Shopify and join the platform. Simplifying commerce for millions of your favorite businesses worldwide. It's true, lots of people use Shopify. In fact, Shannon and I have used Shopify with various ventures in the past. And the reason is they make it so easy. With Shopify, you create an online store that's in your vibe. You discover new customers and you can grow the following that keeps them coming back. Shopify has all of your sales channels sorted. So your business keeps growing from an in person pos to an all in one e commerce platform. Even across social media platforms. They've got 24. 7 support and free libraries full of educational content. This is why Shopify's got you every step of the way. And this is all also why every minute new sellers around the world hear that sound when they make their first sale on Shopify. And you will too. Go on. You can try Shopify for free and start selling anywhere. Sign up for a free trial@shopify.com SBS all lowercase. Go to shopify.com SBS to start selling online today. Shopify.com SBS and our thanks to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. All right. Hey, you mentioned some feedback, Shannon, and we did in fact get feedback@businessbrain.show has started filling up. Greg sent in a note that I wanted to read through and then I want to answer his question too. He says thanks for producing the show for the past seven years. I started listening around the beginning of the pandemic and went back and Listened to all the past episodes. It's frigging amazing. Wow.

Yeah, that's impressive.

It is. He says. I look forward to each week and appreciate all the information you provide. The show helps me think about business in general and I learn something new every week. All right, this is good. Yeah, this is in fact just what we were talking about kind of in our intro segment today. The show helps. I apologize for not sending in feedback sooner. No worries. And if you haven't sent in feedback yet, you still have a chance you can like it's we're here feedback at BusinessBrain show Greg continues. I don't have a business background. I worked for the government conducting research and providing public education for over 20 years. I educated, consulted and collaborated with various types of small and large businesses through my government work. I left that career in response to continued funding cuts. I worked for a local small business for three years before starting my own. Your show helped me prepare me for starting and running a business. This warms my heart. I'm going to be in tears in a minute.

Perfect.

This is great. Yeah, it says it provided me with encouragement and confidence in making the decision to leave behind a paycheck for a new life as a business owner. Frickin amazing. Like woo hoo. That's what we're looking for. Yeah, well, we're also looking for feedback. Good news. Greg's here to deliver. My feedback for the show is to try and find a balance with the different formats that you've used and are considering. Too much of one thing can lead to disinterest, so I suggest maintaining a variety of. I have enjoyed you both leading the podcast more than focusing on interviews. Interviews in Greg's mind should be reserved for outstanding guests that offer something unique to the listening audience. I realize that you both have limited experience as an employee, but some of us listening have primarily been an employee. A major part of my reasons for leaving my various employers has been a lack of respect, lack of pay, lack of consideration, and more. When I took my last job, I told myself that this was my last job and if it didn't work out I would start a business. And that's what happened. I've managed people in my past jobs, so I understand that employees can be problematic. I also know that great employees can be treated poorly by management as well. I think that you cover two sides of the story, but on rare occasions your comments are not as considerate of employees perspectives or situations fair. I know the show's target audience is business owners, but I imagine there are A lot of employees listening to. That's fair. Yeah. The aspirational business owners like, like Greg used to be. He says, I assume that I am just sensitive to specific scenarios that apply to my past experience. Of course that makes sense. He says, I've listened to a lot of different podcasts related to business. I do my research and learn what I need to know to make decisions. I started my business 18 months ago and I'm operating my own without, on my own, without employees. I'm a consulting and service based business and I'm growing the business by increasing the number of clients and performing services for them at their homes or commercial properties. At times it feels like I am growing too slowly and I would like to speed up the process. I know that eventually I need to hire employees to help me. However, I'm barely able to pay myself because I continue to reinvest in the business. So it seems like it might be too soon to hire help. And he says, I feel like it's too risky to take a loan now and I'm not interested in getting an investor with that. I suspect many small business owners are in similar situations. I observe many small business owners that never take that next step to hire employees and they continue to do everything themselves. I don't want to do everything myself forever. Physically, it can be difficult. It would be helpful if in a future show you could cover more details about making major decisions within the business like when to hire that first employee and and how to manage risks at the same time. With your experience, it seems like making difficult decisions is easy for you. In my situation, my business can't fail because it's a culmination of my life's work and it's how I support my family. I know entrepreneurs would build, buy and sell businesses, but right now that isn't my goal. And he says, I hope this is the feedback you're looking for. I couldn't have asked for something better. So thank you, Greg, that's terrific. I want to turn it over to you because I've been talking for.

There's a lot to unfair.

Yeah, but I do want to say something because he says, and he's probably right, but I don't necessarily feel this way. Again, he's probably correct, but he said in his situation his business can't fail because it's a culmination of his life's work. I feel exactly the same way about all of the businesses that I have and that I've ever had and if one of them fails, I feel like, oh my Gosh, this is going to be terrible. I am always working to salvage whatever I can do and keep things afloat. Even though Greg's probably right. I could suffer a few failures now, even on a semi large scale and probably come out the other side. Okay, different than 20 years ago when, you know, when I was starting companies. But I don't feel that way. I certainly don't operate with that line of thinking. And as I was reading Greg's thing, I'm like, no, I'm the same way. It's like, well, I'm, that might not be true, but it's how I feel. And I, I, I think that hunger and that almost desperation is the best word I can use to describe it. Although I, I know that I'm not operating desperately, but it, I feel like I am and I, I think that hunger is what keeps me pushing things forward. I don't know, I just wanted to share that. I don't know what I'm trying to say here.

Yeah, no, no, I, I think that, yeah, like I said, there's, there's a lot to unpack here. First, let's talk about the comment about employees and I would agree with, with Greg's comments. There, there are specific situations where, you know, there are awesome, you know, terrific employees that maybe they don't get treated well, that don't get paid enough. And then there's poor employees that don't get fired quickly enough or don't, you know, oh yeah, get paid too much. Right. So specific. But, but I would say if you go up to businessbrain show and search for employee or culture. We've tried to talk, and I'm not defending this, but I want to point it out that we understand the power of having a great, or building a great place to work and that's there's no way to be successful and to create a great business unless you surround yourself with great employees and they're treated well and they, they have a path. I mean, we talk all the time about career paths, even for very small businesses. And I think you're right, Greg. Your focus is really unique. And when you're ready, and I want to talk about your first employee as well, you will be a much better boss because you understand this and you were an employee and you know, it's been a long, long time since I was an employee, my college days, and I would suggest, you know, if you haven't worked or been an employee for a long, long time too, is find someone like Greg mentions that has and get their feedback Once in a while, in my case, you know, my wife was an employee for, you know, decades before she came to work for one of our businesses and took it over. And she would often play devil's advocate when I was talking about doing certain things. And I learned a tremendous amount from her perspective. So there's a lot up on the website about that. This employees and treating them and salaries and bonuses and stuff.

So it's interesting as we're chatting here, I searched for hiring employee on our website. You can go to businessbrain show and we've got a search that actually works. And I found an episode. The most recent time we talked about this was episode 356. Hiring your first employee was what we titled it, which made it easy for me to find. This episode is going to release. We're recording it on Tuesday the 29th. It's going to release on November 30th. That episode was released almost exactly a year ago on December 1st of 21. So it's been almost a year since we've really dug into this. And I think it's an important thing to talk about on a regular basis for us because it is the hardest thing, I think, in the initial growth of not only your business, but your career as an entrepreneur, because you can't scale if you can't scale. And for most of us, scaling means having other people there to do the work. Everything all right there, Shannon? I heard.

Yeah, sorry.

Okay. Yeah, it's all good. Sorry about that. And you know, I don't want to necessarily entirely rehash that episode from a year ago, but I think it's okay to talk about this again. You know, it's an important topic.

It is.

I will start. I'm looking at my notes from a year ago and I will start with the end because what we talked about at the end of that episode was who should be your first employee, what role should you follow fill? And what I said a year ago, I still stick with. And that's a salesperson. And the reason I say that is twofold. Number one, your business already knows how to do what it knows how to do. Most businesses, and you know there's going to be some asterisks out there, but most businesses wind up, you get a surge of customers and, and then. And this is your fear too, then you will have some attrition and you don't want to hire more worker bees to do to service the customers when you don't have a machine in place to replace the customers that are invariably Going to fall by the wayside. Right? You get your initial surge, but you've got to have an engine that brings more customers in. And you already know, even just as you, Greg, you know how to do the work. So the trick is bringing customers. And out of the gate, you figured it out. You've, you know, 18 months in, you're bringing in customers, you're bringing in a little bit revenue, and you're, you're afraid. And I get it. I understand why. I would be too. In fact, I always still am to this day. You're afraid that if you bring someone in, you won't be able to pay them. Well, a salesperson is usually a pretty easy person to. To justify paying. My guess is you could hire lots of different roles, and someone that, that looked at it objectively from the outside would say, oh, it makes perfect sense. You should be paying that person. But it's hard when it's the only money, you know, and now you're giving it to someone else after painstakingly working for over a year to just build up some revenue. And so you bring in a salesperson and you, you know, you could pay them. I mean, you could pay them 100% commission. It depends on your business and depends on the person. There are many salespeople that prefer to work on 100% commission because they want to be in control of their own destiny. But if you, if that's not the way you want to run things, fine. You pay them a, you know, a base salary plus, you know, a commission bonus or something like that. You can structure it. And we're happy to talk through that on the show here, too, if you'd like. But it's easy to. I can tell you this. It's easy to pay a salesperson, and it's easy to know when to stop paying a salesperson because they're not generating revenue. Their whole job is about bringing in revenue. And if they're doing that, it's easy to give them a percentage of that effectively as their pay. And if they're not doing that, it's easy to give them a pink slip. So I stick with this. That a salesperson is the easy first hire might not be exactly the right one for your business, but I would rule that out before going to whatever you think might be the next best first hire.

Yeah, my take on. It's a little different. Of course, I was always the sales guy, right? I was always the one that could bring in new business. But fair, I was not. I was not good at the other Stuff, the back end, the logistics, the. You know, I could be the rainmaker, but everything behind the scenes, that had to happen to actually fulfill.

Yeah, that was.

That was not my. My. My specialty. So I want to.

I want to stop you right there. Just yes or no, but it might go longer than that. Did you ever have salespeople working for you or was it always just you?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

We. We definitely had salespeople, but when you're talking about hiring the first. Your first employee or you.

You didn't need that.

Yeah, yeah, because I. We had the business and the relationship. I was always the relationship guy.

Yep.

Um, but I needed the. The behind the scenes magic to happen, so I. Well, let me. Let me back up.

Yeah. No, no, I'm sorry I derailed you, so. It's okay. Thank you.

It's okay. I want to talk about this. This issue of how do I afford it? What do I do? You know? How do I know? You know? So, Greg, let's talk about safety nets for a minute. Very important. And looking back at starting various companies. Okay. When I started my first one, my safety net was that I had very low expenses. Right. I was young. Everything I owned about that time probably could fit in my. My truck. And I met this wonderful woman who went out and got a job and basically covered the bills and gave me the Runway to experiment and start my first significant business. I had some other fits and starts before, but the smallest.

Sure.

So that was my. That was my safety net. Then when I was ready to start another company, the safety net was. Well, I had saved some money and I had a bunch of resources from this other company. And so creating safety nets is really important. You've, you know, either sock some money away so, you know, that, well, if I can't take much out when. Maybe this is what you've done, Greg, over your career, working for someone else. And so you can tap into that to get yourself going and. Or someone else is generating revenue that you can lean on for a while while you get your feet under you. So safety nets are important, and the business you're building now could be a safety net for you to do something else down the road. You just. You never know where it's going to go.

That's true. Yeah. You. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

And so I would do a couple things, and this is in that episode about hiring your first employee, but it's worth mentioning again is go order this book. It's called the E. Myth. And if you were in my office, looking at me, you would see me holding it up right now because it is never far out of reach. It's actually called the E. Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. And it is one of the most important aspects of this book is creating an organizational chart and putting your name in every box when you're started, because you don't have anybody else to put in there. And so fill your name in and then think about where you're lacking. Are you lacking in that sales area where you need new customers? And that's, you know, Dave's advice, which makes a ton of sense. Or is it like my case, where you're doing great bringing customers in, but you just don't have the time during the day to. To actually get the work done, and you need some people that can shore that up. So then you can think about the type of person you need to. To hire. That's going to have the biggest impact on your business quickly. Right. Because all of a sudden, you're going to hire them and you're going to have more expenses. And, you know, another thing to consider is, can you. Can you hire someone as a contractor? You know, depends on where you. What state you live in, and there's lots of rules about that, but I've done this a lot, and it. Depending upon your. Your business and how it works, maybe there's an opportunity to save some money in the beginning and have more flexibility without making this massive commitment on salary or hours and use a contractor. So that's something to think about. But get a copy of the E. Myth. It will help you frame this concept of what this first employee would do. I highly recommend it.

Yeah. Yeah. Smart. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. If you're. If you. If you have the confidence to know that you're bringing in business and you need people to service it, well, then. Then the answer is also obvious for you. But if it's not obvious, the salesperson. I think it's a. It's a great place. Like I said, it's. Rule it out. You. You very quickly, for. You ruled it out. And that's. That's the exercise, right? It's like, oh, I don't need that. I'm. I have the confidence. We have plenty of business. Okay, great. Now, you know that you've got money that you can pay people with, right? So go do that. Yep, that's right.

I'm a perfect example of that. There's that phrase in the business world, Hire an assistant and double your salary. That. That totally worked because I just Couldn't keep track of it all. And, But I was good at talking to people and getting out, opening new relationships and. But I needed that assistant. And then the assistant said, okay, now we need to hire this person, do this person, do that. And they helped me build this, build up the organization, and that became my safety net that I leaned into for everything for the next 25, 30 years.

Amazing.

I just repeated. Repeated that concept over and over, failed miserably a number of times, but succeeded enough to where I'm here today.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you made it through. Yeah, you don't have to. I always, like I said, I'm always sort of in, in some part of me is in desperation mode. It's, it's just how I operate. Right? It's that small, that scrappy, hungry. I, I just need to keep pushing forward. But it's, it's, it's the thing that fuels me. So. Yeah, makes. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's the. It is scrappy, hungry, desperate. Those are really good, good things to, to. To think about. I just tried to search for this in our, our online database, but I couldn't find it. But that. We've done a number of shows where I talked about this guy who lived on. Drove to work every morning, and I just thought, I just remember thinking, boy, you know, if I really screw up, I could be, you know, just like that guy. You know, I don't know his story or whatever, but it highly motivated me as I drove to work each day, seeing this person. And I thought, man, that's a, that's a struggle on its own. So I like that. Being worried a little bit. That's a. I think that's an important tactic. It really is.

Yeah. Yeah. It, I, I right. It. You don't. I get nervous when I, I mean, I say that I'm always in desperation mode and, and I'm scrappy and hungry and always driving. When I get even more nervous is when I find myself complacent. You know, if I'm comfortable with how things are, I know that I'm about to be hit, you know, with that, that random Tuesday blindside. Because they happen. It's how it goes. And, and you get used to those too. I always, I always say, you know, one of my earlier businesses, I mean, it's one that's sort of weaved a thread through everything I've done but was helping people with their computers. Being a computer consultant, if you would. And when I was doing that full time, I realized that, yeah, I had the skills to do it. And I had plenty of clients. Like, none of that was the problem. But what my actual job was was prioritizing other people's emergencies. Right. Because people didn't call me unless they had an emergency, and I had to choose who got my time first. Right. It was just a fact of life, you know, and. But I often think about my experience doing that and getting comfortable prioritizing other people's emergencies, especially when I am in a position where I have to prioritize my own emergencies. And it's like, yep, okay, I've seen enough emergencies. So many that weren't mine. So I was able to see them objectively. But of course, I've seen my own emergencies, too. It's how life and business goes. And I'm like, okay, I know how to breathe. I know how to be like, all right, this is not what I expected today. This is, you know, potentially terrible. But we're going to. We're going to break it down. We're going to see what, you know, what we can do, how we might move forward, and we're going to. We're going to try something because we're not just going to sit around. So.

Yeah. And I think that that doesn't mean you shouldn't be confident.

No, confident.

Greg has, yeah. Decades of experience under his belt, and he knows how to be a great manager and so prob.

Want to be more than you and me.

Yes, probably. And so confidence is really great, but you don't want to get cocky.

Right.

You know, so there's that. There's that difference. And, you know. So Greg, I hope we answered that question for you, talked about employment. You know, keep us in the loop on how your business does, you know, reach out, and we'd be glad to help with as much business therapy as we can.

Yeah, this is, you know, that was one of the names that we tossed around when we came up with when we changed to business brain was business therapy because it's what we. It's. It's one of the things we really like to do for each other. We do it all the time, and any opportunity we get to do it for any of you would be fantastic. So thank you, Greg. Thanks to everybody who sent stuff in. We have another comment from Jeff, question from Jeff that we didn't get to. We will, I promise. We've got that queued up now for next week. So. Yep, it's. It's coming. Keep your feedback coming in. It's feedback. Businessbrain show. And we can all be, you know, increase our levels of being business brainiacs together. I think it's great stuff. You got anything else? Man, are we good?

Good episode. I love keeping myself sharp.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Thanks again for listening, folks. Make sure you check out shopify.com SBS, get that 14 day trial and check it out. And hey, do us a favor. In addition to sending in your feedback, keep living that charmed life.