Buying out a Partner and Turning Your Employer into a Customer

The Small business show episode 379 for Wednesday, May 11, 2022. Greetings folks and welcome back to the Small Business show. Or welcome to the Small Business show. If this is your first visit here we are here at BusinessShow Co and and that is where we are small business ing every week. Sponsors for this episode include shopify.com SBS where you can go and get a 14 day trial to their full suite of features. And also Rate Tracker, your credit card processing rate watchdog@sky-sale.com RateTracker. We put those links in the show notes for you so you don't even have to remember. And we'll talk more in depth about each of those sponsors a little bit later here in the episode. For now, as usual, here in Durham, New Hampshire I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in Lafayette, California, I'm Shannon Jean.

I wasn't sure if we lost you there for a second, man.

A little bit. I was looking at these notes thinking, okay, I gotta do this, that. And I was like, oh, it's my.

Turn, it's time to talk.

Time to talk. That's right. Usually not a problem for me.

No, that's right. Well, that's why, you know, I was like, wait, did I mute him? What happened? Because that wouldn't be the first time, you know, that I'm like, you're talking and it's like I see the levels dancing on the mixer, but there is no sound.

Like, how many Zoom meetings have we all been in the last couple of years?

You're like, you're on muted. Yeah, exactly. I, I got the opportunity last week to go to an in person event. There's this company called Pepcom that, that hosts these press events. They, they have been called speed dating for the press, which is a great term for them. It's, it's kind of like going to. Except the only attendees that are allowed at these events are the press. And no one gets to bring their own booth in. Every vendor gets the same size table. So I don't have, you don't have to worry about traversing, you know, somebody's weird booth layout or what. You know, that's it. You just, you go from table. The tables are set up before anybody gets there, before the press get there and before the vendors even get there. And it's like, that's your table. You set up on that and you're done. Like they can put a little sign up behind it or whatever. That's all fine. But it's very well laid out. And these have been Fantastically valuable for me over the years, just because it's like three hours and I can go see. There were 41 vendors at this thing the other night. There were about 18 of them that were really of interest to me, and it's just great to be able to get to see people and interact with their products and actually see the products and just remind everybody that we're all human and all of that good stuff. But it was the first of these that I have been to this year. I think it was the first in person. Well, I was at south by Southwest, certainly for that trade show, but it was the first of these kinds of things that I've been to since we completed the acquisition of the Mac observer, since that sale happened. And this was certainly the first event that I was at where that was my prior identity. Now, even inside the Mac observer For the last 10 years, you know, my main content came through my Macgeek Gab podcast, which is something that I kept separate from the acquisition. The person who came in did not want that podcast, and that was, quite frankly, a big part of the attraction of that deal. I mean, there were many facets that were attracting, but not having to figure out how to sell that to someone and then not have to go work for them, you know, Know, it was like, wait a minute. This. This is. This could be a nice little clean. Yeah, right. So, but even still, you know, I would. I would wear a badge at these things that said Mac observer and macgeekab on it. And. And this, in theory, was going to be the first one where I did not have that on my badge. Well, they just printed the badges from the old list. So, yeah, so I showed up and there was Mac observer on the badge. I'm like, okay, well, you know, it's fine. Like, I mean, it's how things work. They're like, yeah, we're sorry.

Talking point.

While that was it is. It became a talking point, and it was a fantastic talking point, because, first of all, no one, you know, I was worried in some circles that if I said I was no longer attached to the Mac observer anymore, would I get the same level of attention just for being Dave from macgeek Gab, you know, that I got previously, which was, you know, some mix of the two. And no one, thus far, I have not encountered any, you know, of the companies that I've worked with over the years, no one has seen this as a negative thing, and most people see it as a very positive thing. It. You know, it being able to, like, you Said it was a talking point. Saying, oh, yeah, you know, I really should cross this out. And I'd put my finger over the line on the badge and explain that, you know, the site was acquired at the beginning of the year, and. And. And everybody's like, oh, wow, that's. Wow. Congratulations. And they would want to talk about it a little bit. And then, of course, we'd get into letting them talk about products and. And that sort of thing. But it was. It really, like, in good conscience, I certainly could not have planned this. I would not have asked. In fact, I asked for exactly the opposite from. For that not to be on there, because that's appropriate. But it was on there. Everybody understood it was a mistake. I. You know, and I was able to talk through it. But it worked out really well. It was quite serendipitous, you know, to be able to have that conversation. Yeah.

Yeah. You changed the frame on it.

That's it. Yeah.

I think name tags are a tremendously underutilized communication method. And what I mean by that, when I used to send all our guys to Mac World and I would do all their name tags, and I would always put their name. But there was a spot, if you recall, or right below where you can put the company. But there was also some other stuff.

You put their Twitter handle or something. Like, people figure out things to put on it over time.

And I would always put things, you know, a comment, a question, some way to get these. Because, you know, I'm sending texts and salespeople, but some way to kind of people look at it and go, what? That's weird. You know, and it could have been something like, I had our buyers, and I would always put like, oh, I buy stuff, you know, or Best dressed award, you know, winner 2019. And just funny little things that people would look at, and it would get them to engage them because they read it on the name tag, and people would come back and be like, oh, man, I had, like, 50 people come up to me and ask me what this meant, all this kind of stuff. So you can be creative with your name tags to help break the ice, and especially if you're going to an event that you. You don't know any.

Yeah.

Know anything.

Yeah.

I often use the. The tagline. I get stuff done under my name.

I like it.

Yeah, I do it. You know, it's just kind of get somebody like, what are you talking about? What's that? You know, that kind of thing. So that's a great story with the Mac Observer.

Yeah, no, it really? Yeah. But now you're. You're getting me thinking about even if you can't control, you know, even if there isn't the opportunity to add something interesting or creative or engaging to the name tag. Well, you can always have a sticker printed up and put a sticker on a name tag. Like this. This particular event, it was in Manhattan, where I believe certainly for this event, there was a vaccine requirement. I think that's the case in most indoor events over a certain size in Manhattan. Anyway, so they, you know, they checked our vax cards, and then we just put, you know, they gave us a sticker that we put on our. On our badge so that. On our name tag so that, you know, that's. That's how that was done. But there was nothing stopping me from putting yet a different sticker on there, too, alongside that. What's that? Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I mean, I could. I could put something on there and it would be. Yeah, I'm wondering, like, should I cheesy that it works? Well, it is cheesy, but that's okay.

Like, that's okay.

Cheesy gets people. That gets people's eyeballs. Right. And you then have the opportunity to show that you either are cheesy or aren't cheesy by discussing this thing that in and of itself is cheesy. And you could even say, oh, yeah, I put that on there so that we'd have this conversation. But.

Exactly. I had held an event this weekend, and there was a couple hundred people there, a bunch of reserved tables. It was a fundraiser kind of thing. And I always. When I create the name tags for the tables is this placard, if you will, that sits in the center, and these people go there, and. And I always put something on each placard to get everybody talking. And it could be like, you know, I always do. Awarded best looking table 2020, 22 best dressed award, two years running. Just little things, because people look at that and then I see they. Cause some people go to tables and they don't know anybody. And so I'm trying to, again, get another icebreaker and be like, what's that? Or come up with interesting table names if there's not a sponsor for that table and be like, oh, you're at this table. And come up with different things. So it's fun to do. And it gets people talking.

No, it gets people. Yeah, that's it. It's a. Yeah. Thinking about those icebreakers. That's really smart. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people Won't. Most people won't do that for themselves. Especially, like you said, technical people that are, you know, it's. It's just not part of the culture to be cute like that, if you will. You know, that's cheesy.

Yeah, that's correct. And, you know, it's. I did it first time. I think I did it just to. Just to give these guys a hard time, you know, of course, kind of just mess with them because they were my employees. And then. Then once they started telling me, yeah, everybody asked about this, I'm like, oh, that's. That's brilliant. Let's do that every time.

Yeah, let's not stop that. Yeah, exactly. Hey, speaking of something that we don't want to stop, we've got some listener questions. You know, we have this email address, feedbackus show co. We say it during every episode. We often say it at the end. We probably should start saying it at the beginning because we've listened, we've looked at the stats, and even the people that listen to the end don't necessarily make it all the way to the end, but you might want to at times.

Heartbreaking.

Yeah, it is heartbreaking. I know we put a lot of effort into that, but it's fine. But, yeah, feedbackusinessshow.co is where you can send in your questions. And in fact, we have. I believe. I think there's three we have in the can. We probably have time to get to two of them today, but that's okay.

Yeah, a couple of really good ones.

Yeah. So I think the value of a name tag as an icebreaker, which I didn't know was gonna be the topic as I brought this up, but it seems like we've wrapped that up. Are we good on this one?

I think we're done with that one.

Okay. The next thing I'd like to do before we start answering your questions is tell you our two sponsors. If that works for you, Mr. Gene.

Yes, sir. Let's do it.

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Face gymnastics.

Face gymnastics. Yeah, it's a thing. All right, we have some questions. I'll start by reading Rob's and then maybe you can kick us off with the answer. So Rob asked. I am a partner in a food related business. We made it through the pandemic by making a bunch of changes to our business. And now things are good. Or so I thought. Last week, my partner came to me and told me that he was not happy and wanted me to buy him out. Man, I've been here. This is an interesting one. Okay. I don't know how to proceed. Cash is short and I will have to replace the partner since they manage the operations side of the business. Help. Yeah, man. So, yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead. Yeah, yeah.

There's two things, really. Right? I mean, number one, it's like a bomb dropping your lap, especially when you thought things were going well. And that's a tough one. It's like breaking up in a relationship. It's like a divorce. The other part is the cash requirements, how that will impact your business. And the other thing, perhaps equally important, or maybe more so, is getting someone to do, especially if they're an operating partner. Like, sounds like Rob has someone managing the operations side of their business. So you got to go out and find a replacement. But I think the first, once you get over, maybe the first thing you have to do is ask for some time.

I was taking notes here because I like to make sure I'm listening to what you're saying, but as ideas come to my head, I take the notes so I can have it later. And literally, as you were saying that I was typing the word time.

You have to have some.

Yeah, yeah.

For sure, yeah. You need to be able to think and talk to your advisors and how things are going to work. So you probably need to take a step back then you need to engage with your partner and say, okay, Look, I need 30 days or whatever to think this through. And hopefully it sounds like in this case it's not like some animosity or some big problem. And this guy, their partner is going to leave tomorrow, so hopefully you go, look, okay, I respect what you said. I'm sure he's already told him that I want to figure this out. I need, you know, 30 days or something like that and, or 90 days, I don't know. After 30 days you may say, okay, let's plan. You may need to plan it over, you know, a year if you need it to get, get this person, you know, out of business.

Oh, yeah.

And then when it comes to the, the finance part of it, well, you know, they're going to know your business and the finances of your business. And I don't think they're in a position to make an unrealistic demand on the business. Right. And if you, if, let's.

No, but they may make a difficult request.

Yes, they probably will. And, and the valuation of the business, I think comes into play and how you get that. And hopefully you have some sort of working agreement, partnership agreement, management document if, you know, if you've got an LLC operating agreement that describes a method to value your business. Right.

Good luck. Most businesses don't have this. I mean, you know, we don't have this here for what we do. Yeah, it's priceless, Dave.

It's priceless.

Well, yes. Oh, no, no, no. It's more than priceless. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I want you to buy me out. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I've been here, I've had this conversation when Greg, my original partner with Backbeat Media, in fact I, I referenced him in the prior episode. He was the one with the phrase has the added benefit of being true. He, he came to me and we had run this business for, I mean, it'd been well over 10 years and we're doing well. It wasn't like, you know, it wasn't kicking off millions and millions of dollars or anything like that, you know, but it was, it was supporting us both for sure and many other people. And he came to me and he said, listen, you know, my, my interests have changed. And he wanted to go and he went and co founded the Brooklyn Zen center and became a Buddhist priest, which he, which is what he does today. Yeah. And. Yeah, and right. Yeah, exactly like, okay, you got to follow your passion here. I get it. And so he said, I want you to. I want to get bought out. It's like, okay, well, how are we going to do this? And so, you know, he had an idea of what he needed, and he also understood that he was a functional partner. It wasn't, you know, he wasn't a silent partner or anything like that at that point.

Okay.

And he was like, okay, but I have some ideas. He, you know, he came in with a proposed solution path, or at least solution ideas that were super helpful. We tweaked them together. But, you know, he's like, look, I know you're going to need time. He's like, I would like a fixed salary for both the time that I'm here and for some period of time thereafter. And I forget what it was. And even if I remember, you know, it was all confidential, so I'm not gonna. Not gonna share any of that.

But it's great, though, that he took the time to really, here's what I want. Instead of just dumping it all on you.

Here's what I want. And I, you know, obviously I listened to him and I was. I was surprised, but not. I mean, I was not expecting it, but it made sense for him. It wasn't. I mean, it was out of the blue, but it wasn't out of the blue. You know, it's like these things. So we looked at it, and as the partner who remained, I took his ideas and evaluated them based on what I thought was the most important thing to him. And I don't like. We maintain a very good relationship. When you go into these things, you do have to be a little bit selfish and you have to be protective of your own interests and make sure that you are represented in this and the future of the business is represented in all of this. But it was like, okay, well, he's asking for a lot on the surface. What do I think he really needs? Where do I think there might be some wiggle room to a protect some of my interest and the health of the business going forward? And so I think whatever he asked for, for the flat monthly rate, we left alone. I didn't, because I was like, okay, he clearly has some idea. He needs this amount of cash guaranteed to him, but he probably doesn't need it for as long as he asked for. So we. I think we negotiated. I don't remember the details, you know, but I think we negotiated on the length of Time both that he stayed here at Backbeat and then the time after that where it was not an earn out because it was, you know, it was a, it was a guaranteed payment whether the business did well or not. But you know, it was a, it was a payout. Right. You know, it wasn't. And, and that of course by, by adjusting the time that adjusted the, the overall amount. Thankfully we didn't have to go, we were able to arrive at very quickly at a happy arrangement. And so we didn't have to go down the path of having the business valued by some, somebody outside the business. Which, you know, can be, can be a huge risk and a huge headache and so many things.

Very expensive.

Well, it can be expensive to get it done and then the result of it is going to be expensive for someone. You just don't know who going in. Yeah, a friend of mine, this was an interesting thing and I need to be careful not to share confidential names or scenarios, but a friend of mine was in this position where he was being bought out and it was a clause that they had put into the contract many years prior. They all knew at some point it was coming and he said, okay, now I want to enact it. And the way they valued the business so that they could then value his percentage of it and pay him out was in the contract he had put in there. He said, okay, look, here's, here's the way to do this. To avoid the time and expense of bringing in a business valuation expert, what we're going to do is you come up with a number for the shares, you know, for what the value of the business or the value of a share, it's all the same. And I come up with a number and obviously if we're, if we're at the same number, well then great. But now we know what each other's numbers are and we're probably not going to be the same. If, if we can't agree on a number and we then bring in a valuation expert, what happens is we both revert to our original numbers and the valuation expert then comes in and does their, does their, their math, whatever their math is. And when they come up with a valuation, whichever one of our original offers it was closest to, that's what we go with. So that's a good way to it. There's no case in which you would go with the valuation by the expert. You would go with the valuation by one party or the other party or the other, and whichever one, and that was built into the contract to disincentivize either one from pulling in an expert. Right. You know, because, because that's what you don't want to do is. And, and so this made it, in theory, made it worse than whatever the expert would come up with. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it, but, but, yeah.

And, and he said to me, he's like, you know, I thought I was super smart when I did this 10 years ago. He's like, now that I'm at this point, he's like, I'm really kind of kicking myself because it makes me not want to bring in the valuation expert. I'm like, yeah, man. Like, it worked. He's like, yeah, it worked. He's like, I outsmarted myself. It works for both. Right. But they, they did avoid the expert. They, you know, they, they came up with it. So I, I liked that path because it forces you to just be reasonable people and sit down and do it because too. Yeah, it was, it was brilliant. It really.

And it's. You could propose that still.

Yeah. You don't have to have it in writing. That's right.

Rob, you could, you could, you could just say, hey, you come up with a number, I'll come up with a number. If we're so far apart that it doesn't make sense, we could get an outside evaluator and we're going to take whatever our partner number that's closest to that. Yeah, you could, you could have that agreement and hopefully you've got a good enough relationship where you can work with this person. Give yourself some time, get some outside advisors. I'm not a big fan of getting, like, attorneys involved, especially in the beginning. I like to talk to the attorney and then manage the relationship.

Yes.

More authentic.

I would definitely talk with your attorney immediately and, and, and start to think about a str. A legal structure of this sale. But, but I agree with Shannon that you want to, if you can maintain the conversation between you and your soon to be former partner, between the two of you and not letting the attorneys, you know, just be the ones be the mouthpieces, because they will, they will kill a deal. Yeah.

Yes, they will. And you may need to, you probably will need to find a different attorney than your, your corporate or your company attorney. Right.

At least one of you will.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, that, that's correct. So he may need to get it or, you know, sometimes it's with backbeat.

Our corporate attorney remained our corporate attorney and handled this for us. And I don't, I think, I think we both agreed. We Came up with the terms and so we just used the one attorney to draft the paperwork. But it was amicable. Yeah, There was zero friction about this. I mean, I was a little concerned because I'm a partnership person. I'd like to have a business partner. It's proven well for me, except in the scenarios where it has proven terrible for me. But it happens. Right? Good luck, Rob.

I hope that. Yeah, I hope that helps you a little bit. If you, if you have more specific question or you want to break down or expand on something feedbackus show co, we'd be glad to help. Yeah.

Yeah. Good stuff. You want to read Claire?

Yeah. Let's talk about Claire's question. So this is a really interesting one. Claire says I have a side hustle that I think would be a great small business for me. I have listened to your show for years. I think I'm finally ready to quit my day job and focus full time on my business. That's awesome. Good for her. My question is this. My current employer could be a great customer for my small business, but I've always been hesitant to bring it up for fear that they may think it's a conflict of interest. Do you have any ideas on how I might recruit them as a client either before or after I leave? Love the show and thanks for your help.

Yeah, I do. I did this.

You've done this, right?

Yeah, it's. How so I was a full time employee once, back in the day and the final company for whom I was a full time employee, at least in terms of companies where I did not have significant ownership, was Citibank. And yeah, I worked in their. It was a fascinating division. I loved it. It was their home banking division. And this is early 90s. So home banking was very different from what we know it as today. There was no Internet involved in it. It was all dial up and it was fun stuff. And I decided that I wanted more schedule flexibility and thought, okay, well, you know, I would love to keep doing what I'm doing for Citibank. They loved what I was doing for them. So I went to my boss and I said, hey, I want, you know, I'm ready to kind of make a change here and I want some more schedule flexibility. I didn't go into it saying I'm starting my own separate business. I said, I want some schedule flexibility.

Oh, okay.

You know, and I said and. Which was true. Had the added benefit of being true. And. And I said, you know, I'd like to limit my time for Citibank to three Days a week, Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. I said, I think I can still get the job done that I'm doing for you in those three days. Is there any world where that would work for me to remain on full time, you know, as an employee? You know? You know, and they were like, there's no world like today that might. That world might easily exist. Right. This was, you know, 25, almost 30 years ago. And it was 30 years ago, wasn't it? So anyway, and they said no. And I said, okay, well, what if I become a consultant here? And they were like, that could work. We have a lot more flexibility with that. We don't have to really report that in the same way up through the corporate red tape. You just need to set up your own business entity, and then we'll give you a consulting contract.

Nice.

That process of getting a consulting contract approved through Citibank Legal 30 years ago was a disaster. And I don't know if these people quite knew what they were getting into or if they valued my work so much that they were kind of fine with dealing with it. But it took several months for it to happen, Months during which they could not pay me. So that was interesting. And so I kind of had to float myself through that, even though I was working for them and I knew they were good for it. I mean, I wasn't worried about it, but there were other people in that department while I was there that they wanted to hire as consultants. And once they got my consulting contract approved, our finance guy brought me in. He's like, okay, I never want to do that again. I'm like, yeah, I understand. He's like, so here's the deal. I got three people this summer that I need to hire as consultants. You're going to hire them, and I'm going to pay you $10 an hour on top of whatever I tell you to pay them. And that's going to be your administrative fee. Are you okay with that? I'm like, yeah, man, that sounds great.

Yeah. I think that's a really great example of, you know, like, for Claire, is maybe there's an opportunity that.

Both sides of this. Yep. Yeah.

And that's how I would try to frame it.

Absolutely.

Of something positive for both. It's like, hey, I want to stay involved with the company, but I want this. And maybe it's, hey, I want more time or flexibility for my family, but I can still do this, and I could save you. And since I know this business so well, I think I could save you money or I can Help with a better quality supplier, whatever it is. I don't have those details.

We don't have the details. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

But I think that starting to have that discussion with them and framing it as I want, I need more time for this. That gives you that opportunity to interject it. It may not work, but it may. Especially if you come back and say, well, I'd love to just have the opportunity to try it, depending how it works, just try it or bid on it. I think I can provide this for less. I've seen what it takes to do it. I know so much about this. I'd love to work with you. Maybe it does involve staying out as a consultant after you go. And maybe when you tell them, they're going to be like, oh no, you're leaving. But you could say, well, how about.

I don't have to change, I don't.

Have to leave 100%. And then you could introduce that next steps, like I could also do offer this. And they may jump at. Or they may say, well, let's start as a consultant, see how that goes. And if that works out, maybe we could become your customer for whatever you're saying.

I mean, there's very little difference between consultant and, you know, them hiring you as a consultant and them being your customer. I mean it. From a legal standpoint, it is literally the same thing. Right. So, and, and I remember when I was doing that contract with Citibank, one of the clear, you know, I mean, one of the, one of the, the line items in it was that I had to offer my services to other people. Right. Because they were basically going down the list of what at the time was the delineation between employee and 1099 contractor. Right. Like they got it, you know, so they were like, you, you agree that you are offering your services to other people. Whether or not I ever actually engaged with other people, they didn't care, but they needed me to. To attest to the fact that I was open to that idea because otherwise I was just an employee. And of course I was very open to the idea that's what I was going to do on my other two days, you know. Yeah. So it worked out really well. But it, you know, a lot of it was their idea, the path that we took to do it.

And maybe that's. Can, can, you know, maybe Claire can kind of make that happen.

Right? Yeah. Have the conversation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Start the discussion about more time and this. And you just never know. They could be thinking, wow, gee, we need to eliminate a position, and maybe you going as a consultant, you're, you know, you get to leave with some training wheels, so to speak, where you still get some revenue and allows you to, you know, go out. So try to find. I think you need to find who could be your champion, right?

Yes. You definitely need that champion. That's right. Yeah.

Who would agree that that's a great idea, Even if it's not your boss or a supervisor or something that ultimately would have the ability to make the decision. Could be a coworker, could be somebody else, another department that your. Your side hustle, you know, has to do with, but someone that can help champion this concept that you can get over to your side and explain things to them and, you know, be a confident, and they could help you kind of meet, you know, get through the whatever red tape and be a voice. Because it's always more powerful when someone else describes the benefit than you.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

He's more powerful.

Yeah.

And it's. It seems really authentic. And because they have maybe no vested interest or maybe they do. Maybe they say, wow, it be great to have somebody on the outside that understands our business so much that, you know, we could benefit from. So, yeah, I. I would. I would do that. Open up the dialogue. Find somebody that can, you know, champion to help help you out and. And change the frame of it to be a positive for both the company and for you.

Yeah.

And like Dave said, maybe. Maybe go into it with a. I want more free. I need more time to do this. And I think that could be one.

Yeah. There's other things I'm looking to do. I want to stay. I want to keep doing the work that I'm doing for you. And then it becomes a negotiation. I mean, I remember. I forget what I was making there, but it was. I mean, this is 30 years ago. It was probably 30, 40 grand a year or something like that. And I remember telling them, they said, okay, well, what would your hourly rate be? And I wasn't. As you know, it was early on in my negotiating time. And I remember telling my boss who became. Was my champion through this process. I'm like, well, you know, I'd like to get 45 an hour, but I'd take 35. I remember saying that to him, and he kind of laughed. He's like, 45 is super high for this man. He's like, but I think I can make it happen at 35. And he did the quick math. He's like, because 35 costs us the same as 35 times you know, 8 times 3. So 24 times 35 is the same as whatever we're paying you as a full time employee now, including the extra 30% that your benefits cost us. He's like, so I think we can make that work. And I had done that math going in knowing what my net cost to them was which essentially is your salary plus about 30% at least back then that's what it was. I'm guessing that's about what it is now too. So you know, with the extra taxes they have to pay and all that. And remember that for you too that as soon as you are a contractor you are picking up those what they call self employment taxes which are the employer taxes that the federal taxes that have been paid. So you know, just bear that in mind. You get some deduction opportunities too. Hopefully you learn to take advantage of like Shannon and I have. But there you go man.

Live that charmed life.

That's it.

Hopefully that helps out Claire. If you have more questions you want to us to dig a little deeper, just respond to that email feedbackus show co. We'd be glad to help.

Yeah, absolutely. It's good stuff. Thank you for sending in your questions. We'd to like love getting your questions. If we could do every episode just answering your questions we would and you can make that happen. Feedback business show co and yeah make sure you check out our sponsors rate tracker@sky-sale.com rate tracker shopify.com SBS you can just go to businessshow.com and see him keep living that charmed life as Shannon said. See you next week.