Change is Coming. Are You Ready?

Business Brain, the Show for entrepreneurs episode 509 for Casual Friday, December 15, 2023. Greetings, folks, and welcome to Business Brain, the show where we take a concept, a thought. Thought, an idea, we analyze it, we discuss it, we dissect it all in the interest of tuning our collective business brains together here. Sponsors for this episode include Miro.com podcast. That's where you can go to get your first three Miro boards for free forever. We'll talk about what those are in a little bit. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And out in Northern California, I'm Shannon Jean. How you doing, man?

Yeah, good. You know, rocking and rolling. It's how we go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, There we go. Hey, when we started, we did the pre show here, you mentioned a topic that I, I thought was interesting because I hadn't heard this concept before, so I'd love for you to explain it to me. And you said, always ask for the no.

Oh, yeah.

And that's related to when you're selling something, right?

Correct. Right. Yeah.

Well, I don't, I don't know what that means. Tell me.

Yeah, so it's a little counterintuitive, and that's why I like saying it that way, because you don't want people to say to you when you're trying to sell to them, right? Like, the goal is for them to say yes. But also, we seasoned sellers of things here know, or at least we're about to learn, that if you make 20 phone calls and you get 19 rejections, 19 nos, that's success, right? Because you make 20 phone calls, you got one sale, that's fine. Well, you have to get to that 20th call, right? Like you, you have to do all 20 calls in order for that to work. And in some businesses, it's not 1 out of 20 turns into a sale, it's 1 out of 100 or something like that. So you know that you're going to get 19 or 99 no's. You have to get them in order to get to. You have to get each one of them in order to be able to talk to the next person. And that's why I say it's really important at a point in your sales process to ask for the no. And by that I mean sometimes I literally will tell people, hey, look, I did it earlier today. Matt Geekab is going out to CES next month to Las Vegas for the CES conference. We're going to cover all that. And we do this every year. It's Great. And we are, we have sponsorship opportunities open for that. Well, I'm in the process of. We have a few locked in and we're working on, you know, getting some more. And there's some people that are on the fence. I have to get them off the fence because otherwise I'm going to keep following up with them and they will keep consuming my time. Yeah. And that's going to keep me from getting to the person that's going to say yes. It might be one of them.

Push them a bit.

You got to push them. And the only, the only way I can push is towards the no. I can't push you towards the yes. I can lure you towards the S. And lure, like, that's. That. That has negative connotations. It's not, it's like persuade, persuade. I can show you value that hopefully makes you say yes. But if it is not the right time for your business, it doesn't matter what I show you. If it's a. If it's going to be a no, it's going to be a no. But. And a lot of people, and I, you know, I've been in this business a long time. There's people I'm reaching out to that I've known for, you know, a decade or two decades. Some of them don't want to say no to me. Right. But. But they can't say yes.

Yeah.

And, you know, I, I'm, I have, I'm good at relationships, and so I know that some people are going to hesitate to say no, and they don't mean to drag me on, but it is human nature to be like, well, I don't want to disappoint this person. But I, I'm, I'm. Yeah, I haven't said yes yet. Don't think I'm gonna. And so I will push people towards a no. I, I did it to somebody today. Like, hey, I know I haven't heard back from you. Saying no is totally fine. I, I just want to check in. I want to make sure you're not missing this opportunity. But if it's a no, it's totally good. I immediately got a no from him. But I've also done that and immediately gotten a yes from somebody that. Because when you start pushing for the no, what you're really doing is pushing them towards a decision now.

Yes. Correct.

Right. That's really what you're doing to save.

You time and your effort so you can focus on a more productive call to the next. To the next client. That correct. That may Be a yes.

Yeah. And it might be that call that might be the productive one. I don't know. Right. But I, I, that's the thing is I don't know until they've made a decision. Now, sometimes I'll push for a no, and what I'll get in response is a clarifying question. Some people are tire kickers. Some people need, everyone needs a certain amount of information to make a business decision. And so, you know, at that point, you know, I will evaluate. It's like, okay, well, that's great. In sales, you know, the, the, the goal always is you put you, the person to whom I'm selling, you put it on the table. I, I, take it off. Tell me what your objections are. Let me, let me address them. So, you know, we'll go through some rounds of that. But sometimes it's just like, hey, look, you're asking a lot of questions. I think I've given you everything that exists about this. If it's a no, that's totally fine. I'm okay.

It comes with experience. I think a new salesperson that's, they're doing everything to try to keep the fish on the, on the hook.

Right. And now you only got one hook.

Yeah. And you, but you're missing out on those other opportunities.

All the other fish are swimming by, you know.

Yeah. Always ask for the no. I love it.

All right. Imagine designing a product that not only users adore, but also makes you fall in love with the creative process. This is where our sponsor Miro, steps in transforming your design journey into a connected, collaborative adventure. Picture this. Miro's visual platform becomes your playground to build that essential product. It's where your ideas take shape, incorporating key user needs every step of the way. Get real time feedback, Understand what clicks and what doesn't, and iterate rapidly. Miro is your go to workspace for continuous improvement. Now think about brainstorming with your team, gathering valuable feedback and creating product experiences with a sprinkle of magic. All of this is possible in Miro. The make your findings visual and easy to grasp. Centralize your research on a single Miro board. Creating a hub for your team to connect, discuss and build comprehensive presentations. With Miro, customer perspectives are no longer a puzzle. Use hundreds of templates, including journey maps, to lead discussions and brainstorm improvements. Miro's infinite canvas is your realm to explore user needs and innovations. What's more, gather inspiration effortlessly. Drop images, GIFs, videos and even audio on your board. Miro makes building lo fi wireframes a breeze, offering A collaborative space to shape early concepts swiftly. And the best part, you can critique and refine designs in one shared space. Leave feedback asynchronously ensuring everyone's voice is heard. And guess what? Your first three Miro boards are free forever. When you sign up, don't wait. Bring your ideas to life. Sign up today at miro.com/podcast. Again, miro.com/podcast. And our thanks to Miro for sponsoring this episode. All right, Shannon, I have a question for you.

Yes, sir.

It truly is a what if. I don't want to scare anybody here. Imagine, though, if I told you today that in the next month or two, I'm going to stop doing this podcast.

Yeah, that would be. You know, I would adapt.

Right.

But I'm definitely better with a partner. The way we've, you know, kind of built this show and even really, this show is just you and I talking about stuff we've talked about for 25 years, right?

Correct.

I mean, there's no.

Know. We.

We decide the topics 15 minutes before we go.

I mean, they evolve over the week, but we narrow it down. Yeah, exactly.

But I. I would continue to do it unless there was something. Well, we're not talking about, like, a business perspective, like, hey, I'm a partner now.

You got to buy me out, or nothing like that. Just what would happen if I was saying I'm going to leave and. And. And you. You owe me nothing, you know? Yeah.

I'm not sure if I would continue it by myself maybe for a while, or I would change the format. I don't know. It'd be challenging. It'd be something different. That would definitely require some thinking and some changes.

So for the last two months, I have been going through exactly that, because it was two months ago that Paul Kent, my co host of giggab, a show that we started, we launched the first episode of gig gab on February 19, the same exact day that we launched the first episode of this almost nine years ago. So, yeah, Flies. Yeah.

And you guys were. Apple recommended. You're like, in the top 20 music podcast or something like that.

And Spotify recommended us to. Yep. Killer. Yeah, it's. It's great. The show is great. We have a loyal listener base. We get a lot of interaction.

You really enjoy doing it?

I love doing it for a variety of reasons. I mean, I love the interaction with the listeners. But even if we. Even if we didn't have listeners, the idea of talking about music for an hour a week.

Stop.

Stop right there.

That's the key Even if we didn't have listeners.

Right.

I would still want to have this conversation. Correct. I feel the same about this concept. Correct, same. I want to talk about this stuff. I'm very selfish in that sense that ye. I want to enjoy doing it. So, yeah, it certainly would change things.

But I don't. Yeah, I don't have a co host. Like, I'm like you. I think that I am best when I'm. I have someone to talk with and bounce ideas off of and listen to and, you know, converse with.

Yeah, I think so.

But I don't have an automatic for that show. For Gig Gab, I don't have an automatic. Like, this is the obvious person that will make sense not just to me, but to our listeners. Like here, here they are. Let's slot them in.

Here's what I would do. The first thing I would do is I would hire an assistant.

Yeah.

Because you're going to take a bunch of off a bunch of new tasks on board. You almost need like a producer, but they don't necessarily. Since you know the technical part of it, you don't have to have somebody that's sophisticated enough.

I've been doing all of the production of Gig Gab. Like, unlike what you and I do here where we split it up, Paul shows up. He's essential. And I don't want to like. Yeah, you're not. Yeah. From a technical standpoint, he's essentially like a guest in that. Got it. And it's totally fine. I, like, I'm. I'm used to doing this. I've done it with Matt geek gab for 18 years. It's not a big deal. So it's not like I'm losing that part of it. It's. It is that truly is the content portion of the show. And also I don't get to talk to my friend every week and. Yeah, that's right. He's leaving the show because his schedule just makes the show impossible. There's no other reason. Like, he would. He loves doing it too.

So assistant. And then I would. Using your two week experiment concept, which if you don't know what that is, you should go up to Businessbrain show and search for two weeks because it's really a powerful thing. But I would probably obviously extend it out in this case since you're only. You're not trying to convince anybody. Um, so maybe it's two months or three months or something, but I would try different things. I would.

Yep. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. And and there's some things that I haven't talked about to our audience. Some of them are going to be a surprise. But my, my current. I. At first I was like, well, maybe I can find a host that I can just drop in as a replacement. Because it's easy. I don't have to book. Like you and I, we book our calendar for months out, but we only have to talk to one person to do it. Now to book my calendar for months out, I need to talk to 10 people to do it. Really, I probably need to talk to 25 because 15 of them are going to say no. Right. So.

Yeah, that's right. So that's where I think the, the assistant is.

Is already have it. Yeah, that's.

Because then you can continue to focus on the content and creative side of things, which, you know, may take. Yeah, your focus can stay there instead of just, you know, the nuts and bolts of some of the scheduling and different things like that. And then I would just try different things. I mean, if I were starting a new podcast today, the format that I would do is I would do a daily show. And whether it was 10 minutes or 15 minutes, kind of like we do this 15. I think us changing to a buy twice weekly format has been great. I mean.

Agreed.

Obviously our listeners like it more. Our engagement's much higher and trying new things and now, you know, streaming it. We'll see how this works out. But the daily thing I think is great because it allows you to start, make mistakes and iterate faster very quickly.

Yes.

Because we did it once a week and it. I, you know, it probably took us years in some cases to make changes that had we been doing things on a, on a faster run rate. It's like the fruit fly. You know, fruit fly has a 24 hour life cycle.

Yeah.

And that's why they use them in scientific experiments. Right. Because it's easy to modify. Well, so doing it quick allows you to iterate and I would certainly do it more than once a week, but that may introduce, you know, different challenges for you since you're just adjusting this thing now.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I'm going to leave it weekly for now. And I've got the, the, the general plan is I have. We have found especially over the last year that our listeners really like it when we have a guest on.

Nice.

Well, and what they've. The reason they like it is because it, it brings fresh perspectives into the show. That show, I think more than this show that show has become. It's easy for us to wind up rehashing things because we're just doing the same thing over and over again. We're going out, we're playing gigs. Right. So getting different perspectives in, getting different people's experiences in really is a good thing. And so there have been a few guests that we've had, especially this past year, that have just been like, great guests. And it's like, well, wait a minute, what if I have that person on once every six weeks? And what if I have four people that I'm having on once every six weeks each? Right. And now I've got this ongoing conversation because people do like that consistency, our listeners have told us. But also it leaves me room to bring in one offs. Now, maybe one of these one offs becomes a regular, or maybe it's just a one off and that's okay too. And, you know, is there a world where one of these regulars becomes so regular that they become a co host? Maybe there's no plan for that, but it's not, it's not against the rules, you know, if it works out. Yeah, right, exactly. The one thing that I've never done is a solo episode on any. I've been podcasting 18 and a half years and I've never done a solo episode.

So I did one Business Brain when you were out one week, and I said, I'll just talk about it and do it.

Oh, that's right, right.

And it was interesting. You know, I'm working on this. I have this new book in process called Escaping Employment. Escaping Employment. And one of the things I've done at the end of each chapter is I've done an audio log because there may be some fine tuning or finessing on a topic that I want to discuss or, you know, too long didn't read type concept. And so speaking into the mic and recording those things, I mean, I think you would do great on a solo show.

No, I do. Like, I've done little one offs, like the videos that we'll do it at CES where it's like, okay, here's a product I'm going to tell you about. Or like I do on TikTok sometimes, like those kinds of things. I'm getting more comfortable with those. They are not my. They are not in my comfort zone yet, but that's okay. Like, and so there will likely be segments, if not entire episodes of Gig Gab that are, you know, solo Dave. And I'm going to experiment with that too. Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

I read a, a comment this morning that I really thought was powerful is that if. If you. If there's not an edge of fear to whatever you're doing, you're probably not pushing yourself far enough. And I really is like, man, that's so true.

It sucks that it's true.

It is sucked. But, you know, it's that crisis of complacency or whatever.

Yeah.

Just get kind of in this thing and everything. So if it makes you nervous and worries you a little bit, I think that's great. The last thing I'll say about this podcast concept, if you're a small business owner, one of the easiest ways to connect with people is to have a podcast up on your website and to talk and even to interview your clients and ask them for audio reviews, verbal reviews, whatever it is. It's just one more way to connect with your customers and your employees and also have your employees come in and talk about what they're working on. You know, we did it last episode. Your noble cause. It's a chance for you to connect with people on a different level from all aspects. Employee, vendor, supplier, you know, banker, whatever. Talking about your business and the way it works and getting that just like we did today. Talking about Giggab.

It's just a huge business therapy, man. Yep.

Yeah. And it's so inexpensive and easy to do. You really need to do it. If you have questions. Feedback at businessbrain show.

I have a question, Shannon. What are we going to name this episode?

Oh, that's true.

Normally. Normally, Shannon, we all have our different workflows. Normally you come up with in the beginning, the title before we record to sort of set the stage.

I really like this slight edge of fear.

Yeah. But did we really talk about.

No, no, no, no.

Okay. That to me, is a future episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ye.

Yeah.

What are we going to call it? Something about adapting to change or adapting to.

Yeah. I don't think I have found in this comes from running Mac observer for 25 years. We found that discussing verbally a title that is meant to be heard. Or is it meant to be read? Rather not heard is a fool's errand. So we would do this in staff meetings where it was like, okay, this is what the article is going to be about. We would get to the point where the seed of the title was there, the adapting to change or whatever. And that's immediately where we would. Even if we remained on the call, everybody would get silent. We would all sort of revert to our slack room and just start typing examples and iterating that way. So. Because I like it. Seeing it is the way. So. Okay, so something about adapting to change, but sexier. But sexier. Yeah, that's it. I got that.

That's great. That's all I need. When I go to, you know, get to get the show up on, you know, when I do the processing of it all, that'll cue me up. So.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, it's awesome. I'm. I'm excited about new stuff coming your way and I know, be successful, whatever.

I'm scared. Like, not. Not petrified. Like, no, no. Like the appropriate amount of scared. But. But it's like I. It's because I care. Right? Like, it's. It's. I don't have stage fright when I go on stage usually, but I am always a little, you know, anxious. I have those butterflies. But that's a good thing. It's like, yep, we're gonna. We're doing something.

Anxiousness, and get it behind you, and it pushes you forward, pushes back.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Great. Thanks for hanging out with us, folks. Feedback at businessbrain show. And, yeah, like he said, have a great weekend. Thanks for hanging out with us on casual Friday and pay attention to gig gab to see. To see what I'm doing over there. It'll be fun. Have a good weekend. Keep living that charm life.