Daniel Blue Founder of Quest Education

Hey folks. Welcome to another edition of the Small Business Show. How are you, Dave?

I'm doing well. Shannon, how are you?

I'm doing really well. Hanging in there. Making the best of the situation.

Yeah, you know, it's. I am, I am not someone who. Well, two things. I've found that my, you know, greeting or sign off with people is some version of stay safe, stay healthy and stay productive enough to pass the time. And I've, I've very intentionally changed my language. I no longer say the word busy. I stay, I say productive because it's so much better than being busy.

Yeah, well, it's intentional, which I really like. And because we, we kind of rage against being busy here on the show. Right. We talk about productivity. So I think that's really a good thing to do in a mindful way to think about it.

Yeah. When somebody asks, you know, what are you up to? Well, I'm productive today, you know, or I've had a productive day or I'm, I'm getting a lot done. But, but, but I, I've, I've really gotten to the point where I basically don't say, ah, it was a busy day. Ah, busy. I don't think so.

I love it.

Yeah. I don't know. I'm not a, not a big fan of the bus.

Yeah. I'm excited about our guest today. We're going to learn about some alternative ways that you can finance, pay your debt off, build long term wealth. And that I think is a really unique thing. And a lot of small business owners right now especially that are looking for ways to weather this coronavirus storm and make it through on their, you know, keep your cash flow going. I think it's really a valuable time to have Daniel Blue on from Quest Education to talk about that.

I agree. I agree. I also agree that our first sponsor, Linode is a place that you want to visit. In fact, you want to make sure you go to linode l I n o d e.com SBS because that's the link that will get you a $20 credit to start with. Linode. Now you might say, what do I get with a $20 credit? Well, I'll tell you because Linode creates an infrastructure for you to set up a server. In fact, they don't create it. They do create it. They've created it so you don't have to think about what it would take to set up a server for your business. They've already done all that work. You just go to linno.com sps you pick the type of server that you want to set up, it might be WordPress, it might be a VPN server, or it might be a bare bones server that you add your own stuff to. That's totally fine, it's totally flexible. And Speaking of that, 20 bucks you get that credit. Well, their lowest price server is a $5 a month server. So it really is a valuable thing. In fact, it could be four months of value for you or longer if you're not leaving the server spun up all the time. Depending on what you're doing. You might have. Of course, if you have a WordPress server, you'd want that up all the time. But if you're doing some development work or whatever and you're offloading it, you don't need it running all the time. And so you can even stretch that out even more. Of course, hopefully you'll stretch it out even longer. And then they get to start making money while you're making money. And that's where everybody wins. You gotta go check this out. You definitely are gonna want a server for your business, for something and go check out what Linode has. Cause you get to test it all out for free. So check out Linode L I n o d e.com SBS to start with that $20 credit. And our thanks to Linode for sponsoring this episode. You got anything else? Any more thoughts on that, Mr. Mr. Gene there?

I'm ready to go, man. All right, well, I am ready to go.

He is Shannon Jean. I am. Dave Hamilton is episode 272 of the Small Business Show.

I think a lot of people that are in sales that do really well, they automatically think that they're going to be a great manager and then they automatically think that they're probably going to be an amazing business owner. And I say that because, you know, I thought the same thing and I learned some, some, some trials along the way. I failed, I made some mistakes along the way. And, and when you are selling and you're just worrying about yourself and putting food on the table and making sales for yourself, that's a whole different ball game. When you actually are having to manage a team and inspire a team and communicate with your teammates and get the most out of them, and then when you take it a step further, when you're actually, you know, writing checks and you know, being involved in payroll, being involved in decisions that affect people's livelihoods and actually being the captain of the ship and running things, it's just a different, it's a different ball game.

Hey, Dave. You know, cash flow, access to capital and building wealth. Right. Those three topics, we talk about them.

Just to find everything we ever talk about.

That's right, all the time on the small business show. And we're always interested in learning more about increasing those, you know, better cash flow, access to more capital and ultimately creating a long term system for building wealth I think is any part of a small business owner's success. So joining us today is Daniel Blue from Quest Education to discuss ways to manage capital, pay off debt and build wealth for your retirement. And I'm really excited to have him here. I'm really interested to learn about what Quest does. Thank you so much for joining us today, Daniel. We really appreciate it.

Hey Shannon, thank you so much for having me. I know you guys have been at this for a number of years, so super grateful that had the opportunity to be on your guys show.

Oh yeah, it's great.

Absolutely.

And finance is such an important aspect. You know, we talk about passion and doing this and doing that. But you know, if you can't pay your bills and if you can't get your debt paid off and if you can't build wealth, what's the you, what's the purpose? Right. So I'm excited to learn about Quest. So talk about what Quest Education does and then how you got started in the finance industry.

Yeah, so what we focus here on a level of being able to help entrepreneurs. So the ideal person that we can show a ton of value to is somebody that is wanting to start a business. Or maybe they're an existing entrepreneur, they've got some kind of LLC or S Corp. They don't have any W2 employees. Maybe they're a solopreneur or consultant. And if they've got this side hustle, if they're an entrepreneur and they don't have W2 employees, the IRS allows this person to take an advantage of some really sweet retirement accounts that a lot of CPAs, a lot of financial advisors for whatever reason do not bring up. And these retirement accounts can unlock the door to a lot of different ways to get money in the pockets of the entrepreneur. So we pull the curtain back and help these people get creative with their finances. And as you mentioned, maybe it's helping them pay off some debt. Maybe they need some working capital for their new business or existing business. Maybe they're just sick and tired of their dry, expensive mutual funds and they want to get a little more creative with the retirement accounts. Maybe invest in real estate or some other alternative investments. So just really helping entrepreneurs Understand some of the options that they might not know about when it comes to their retirement accounts.

That's great. And why aren't these kinds of things promoted maybe a little more by the maybe, for lack of a better word, traditional financial planning industry or something like that? Just because they're not experienced with them as. I mean, you're a small business owner yourself. Is. Is that how you kind of learned more about this thing?

Gotta follow the money, right? If you look at Wall Street, Wall street is gonna make anywhere from maybe 1 2% a year when it comes to managing mutual funds, managing portfolios, right? So if someone has 100,000 in an IRA with fidelity or TD Ameritrade and they have a financial advisor, they're probably paying 1 or 2% a year in fees on that account. And Wall street makes money when people have their money in, right? So if someone has money in a retirement account and they use that money to start their own business, or they use that money to invest into a rental property or use that money to flip a home, Wall Street's not making money. That's. That's really what it comes down to. It does not make Wall street money. So they're not going to spend a whole lot of time talking to their clients about it.

Yeah, it's fascinating. That's good.

Makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. So, and so how did you get started in the, in this business? And then I know, I believe, you know, you worked within the industry and then you started Quest on yourself. Talk about both those things, how you got started and then the impetus to go out on your own and start.

Quest Education, you know, so for me, my background has always been sales. I got into the sales game at 18 years old. I started selling real estate services, real estate coaching over the phone. And I made some really good money it over the years and through having conversations with people over the phone talking to real estate investors, they would tell me that they use their retirement account, they use their IRA to flip a property, they use their 401k to purchase a rental home. And I thought that was pretty cool at that time because I always thought that retirement accounts were only going to be used for stocks, mutual funds. I didn't know that you can invest directly into real estate. So that seed got planted in my head, you know, about 10 years ago. And for me, I just had my head down selling on the phone, doing my thing, and moving up the ladder. Right. I started off and for the people that are listening that are in sales, doing cold calling, right? You start off with Calling reprint leads, you're calling old leads and you're setting appointments you're getting hung up on, you're calling 300 people a day, right? So just smiling and dialing and I was able to work my way up to eventually start closing and eventually start running a sales team and a sales floor and just moving my way up. But I think some people can probably resonate with this. There's a point in time where you sell something and as you learn more about it, maybe you don't feel the same way that you felt in the very beginning when you sold it and you didn't know too much about the product or the fulfillment or just kind of some of the behind the scenes. And for me, I was making good money, but I really hit a point where I'm like, man, this is not what I want to do the rest of my life. Like I'm making six figures, I'm making good money. But you know, when I'm selling, like I don't truly believe in it. I don't 100% believe in this, this product. And for me, that's when I wanted to make a change and I wanted to sell something that I could really get behind. And that's where getting involved in the self directed retirement space came into play. Because I've always been fascinated by stocks, real estate, retirement accounts, investments, things of that nature. And I like talking to people, I like solving problems. And I really saw an avenue where I could solve some big, big problems for people in the self directed space. So I'm 30 years old and I got involved in the self directed industry at about 24 old. So about six years I've been in this space now.

That's great, that's interesting. So do, are small business owners like coming to you and finding, you know, companies like Quest Education when they have specific problems or are, are you in the track? I mean, we talk a lot about, you know, board of advisors, banker, attorney planners, all that kind of stuff. When, does, when do you kind of get in there or are you constantly having to go out and find customers, which, which you work?

Yeah, so I mean, I think if you can have a machine built up to where you never have to make outbound calls, outbound emails, outbound, you know, knocking on doors, sending out mailers. I mean, if you can get people just calling you, that's, that's a great place to be in. And yes, we do have some inbound calls. We do have some people reach out to us organically where they see us online. And we don't have to reach out to them. But for the most part, we've been able to build the business over the years by incorporating some of those same techniques that I just talked to you about when I first got started in sales where we are able to identify a list of customers, people that are entrepreneurs, and then our staff reaches out to those people, gets them on the phone and finds out where we can build value, where we can actually help these people. So most of our business is from the outbound calling. I've got shoot probably about a thousand customers that we've been able to help over the years. We don't have a lot of people in Las Vegas. I mean we might have 30 customers in Las Vegas. So we've got clients in all 50 states and everything for the most part that we do is over the phone. So to directly answer your question, most of it's outbound. But over the last couple of years we've made a more concentrated effort to do social media marketing, do some videos, do some podcasts. I'm trying to get out and speak a lot more and just building the, creating a brand where you know, you can attract people as well.

So this is interesting because it you. We hear from a lot of folks and of course we have a lot of listeners who are in the, the realm of, you know, I was an employee, I worked somewhere and then I started my own business. And certainly in every one of those cases, something that you learned being an employee would naturally just sort of by osmosis, transfer in because it's you. But with, with what you've done here, you really took those lessons that you learned and honed and really excelled at as an employee and leveraged those for this business you've created so that you didn't, you didn't ever have to kind of reset back to zero. You're, you're leveraging these skills that you've been, you've been building all throughout your career as an employee and now as a business owner.

Yeah, I mean I, I do truly believe that and it depends on the service or product that you're, you're prom. But I do feel like there's a lot of value in the two part sales. Right. You have someone that opens the call, someone that makes that initial contact, someone that schedules the appointment and making sure that they're scheduling solid appointments, making sure that the appointment that they're scheduling is someone that's going to pick up the phone. And for that to happen, the person on the other end of the phone has to know why they're on the phone, like what solution are you going to help me with? What is in it for me? That's what the clients are thinking, rightfully so. So it's a matter of just communicating the right way and making sure that we're putting everything out on the table and the clients know exactly what we're going to do and how we're going to help them. And then you know, the person that actually calls the per the, the client for the scheduled appointment has to present the right way. Right. And you have to leave people in a position where you're giving them a good taste in their mouth. You know, they have the warm and fuzzies, they know what they're moving forward with. You're solving problems. So yeah, I mean back in the day when we sold a completely different service, you know, it was real estate coaching. Obviously it night and day different what we do now. But yes, there are some of the same similarities in terms of the model. We just pivoted and we're in a completely different industry, but there are some similar characteristics.

So I feel like to kind of tug on this thread a little bit here. You mentioned two part sales. This is not something that is a natural thing for most entrepreneurs to even consider, let alone, you know, institute in their businesses. Right. Because most entrepreneurs start, they have to do it all themselves because that's kind of how it is. And then breaking away from that model, even if it's like some, a lot of entrepreneurs of course realize, okay, I've got to diversify my, my company and you know, now I'll hand off the sales to that person, I'll hand off the sales to this person. Very rarely do we hear from folks that, that actually adopt this two part sales thing any. I know you just kind of gave us sort of an overview, any specifics in terms of coordinating a team in that regard.

You know, if you break it down, someone that opens a conversation, someone that schedules the appointment, you know, that, that person that, that has that responsibility, you know, they have to have a few characteristics, right? They have to be able to take a lot of rejection, right? They have to be able to be open to that because that's what's going to happen a lot. Right? You know, being, being in a conversation where you get hung up on calling 20 people straight and getting nothing but a voicemail, being on the phone with somebody and thinking that you're going to help them and then you can't. There's just a lot of letdowns in that position. But then There's a lot of satisfaction and really helping people and seeing somebody that you set up actually move forward and you change their life. So you know that that position is really, really the lifeline of a business because they're the ones on the, they're the ones that are drumming up that business. They're the ones that are cold calling. So that person has to be somebody that's hungry, has to be somebody that's willing to take rejection. They have to be a go getter. Right. You have to be willing to put in the work and actually call these people and reach out to them. So that position, to me, yes. They need to be somebody that's good at sales, good at communicating, but you can teach somebody how to communicate and what to say and how to say it. It's hard to teach somebody how to work. It's hard to teach somebody how to take rejection.

That's an understatement.

True.

Yeah. No, no. And, and just to not let that get buried, what you just said, it's hard to teach somebody how to take rejection. It's so true. You know, you can sit down with somebody and say, look, if you're in sales, if you make 20 phone calls and you get 19 no's, that's a successful day. And, and logically people can understand that. But emotionally, when you're in it, if you don't believe it and know it, you're not going to make it to call number 15, let alone call number 20 when you're actually going to get that. Yes.

So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very true. Yeah.

And so along the same lines here you posted recently on LinkedIn and I really stood out to me because we've talked about this on the show before, but, and I, to paraphrase, you know, you said just because you killed it in sales, working as an employee doesn't automatically mean you will be a great employer. And you know, it just really resonated with me. What was the impetus for that, that post? And can you expand on that concept a little bit? For me?

Yeah, I mean, for, for me, I'm a natural salesperson. I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy having a conversation with somebody and listening. And I'm, I'm a natural problem solver. That's probably why there's some times where I cause tension with me and the wife because she says something and I'm immediately trying to solve the problem.

That never happens.

No, dude, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to vent. So I, I'm working on that. Right.

But that is a lesson to learn. Sometimes people just need to vent.

Yeah. And, and we have to be better at having empathy and understanding to, to, to recognize that. But we could probably do a separate podcast on, on that in itself.

Yeah, that's why I bring it up, because I, I face that same problem. You know, we're always looking to solve problems and do things.

Yeah, that's for sure. But, yeah, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, or I think a lot of people that are in sales that do really well, they automatically think that they're going to be a great manager, and then they automatically think that they're probably going to be an amazing business owner. And I say that because, you know, I thought the same thing, and I learned some, some, some trials along the way. I failed, I made some mistakes along the way. And when selling and you're just worrying about yourself and putting food on the table and making sales for yourself, that's a whole different ball game. When you actually are having to manage a team and inspire a team and communicate with your teammates and get the most out of them. And then when you take it a step further, when you're actually, you know, writing checks and, and, you know, being involved in payroll and being involved in decisions that affect people's livelihoods, and actually being the captain of the ship and running things is just a different, it's a different ball game. You have to, you know, really, really understand the different and be okay with it. You know, like the sports, you know, there's some really talented people that played on football and basketball teams, but then they're just not leaders. Right. But they can put up points, they can produce, but can they lead their team? It's two different things.

Yeah, that's huge, man. Just. And I see that a lot, you know, where people just constantly kind of hit a wall, and it is important to recognize and maybe you have to surround yourself with someone else that can be that kind of leader. Doesn't mean you can't still, you know, own the business and be involved in it. That, that's, that's really some good advice to analyze that talking about your business a little more. You know, we're going through this crazy time right now. The, you know, when, while we're recording this, the economy still, you know, basically shut down with this COVID 19 thing. And I, I, I think that, guess what? I was, I was excited to have you on because I know so many businesses are going to be looking for capital or looking for it right now to survive through this. And to try to expand, because there's going to be a lot of opportunities out there. What's one of the barriers to getting businesses to adopt your program, if you will, to embrace it? And how do you guys go through it? Is it. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you hit those barriers and you have to explain, here's the benefits that overcome the risks and that kind of thing. How does it work?

I think the best way to explain it is in order for someone to want to make a change, they really have to know exactly where they stand, Right? Like the example I'll give right now. I think this is relevant to everyone listening right now. Going to the grocery store is a pain in the butt, and I'd use a more colorful word, but it's just. It's a pain in the neck right now. No one wants to go to the grocery store, but you have to. I mean, you can order some things online, but, you know, at least for us, there's just certain things that we have to go into the grocery store for. So before we go to the grocery store and we make a decision, you know, we take inventory of our pantry, our refrigerator in our fridge, what's inside, what do we need, right? And we make a list, and then we go to the store and we make decisions, right? Well, same thing with our money. Like, before you make a change with your account, with your money, or you move your retirement somewhere, you do something different, you need to know where you stand to begin with. And there's a lot of people out there that don't know where they stand with their IRAs and their 401ks, you know, if you ask the average American, hey, how much are you paying in fees for your retirement account? Most people are going to be like, I'm not paying any fees, or they're going to say the wrong answer. Then if you follow up with, okay, what kind of returns are you averaging with your account? They're not going to know. So if you don't know what your investments are doing, how are you going to know whether or not to make a change? And if you know you need to make a change, how will you know what kind of change you need to make unless you take inventory of your finances? So it starts with, where are you today with your finances? What does that look like today? And that's where we start with a lot of people.

That's cool. That's where the education part of your business name comes in, right?

Yeah. And it's just Solving problems, right. It's not, hey, let's get on the phone. Like for example, I'm insurance licensed. I don't get on the phone and start selling term insurance or annuities. Right. It's the same concept with our staff. It's hey, what are some challenges you're going through right now? You know, we were talking to somebody here recently that had, you know, a line of credit, they had some debt where they're paying like 15% interest on their debt and their retirement account is making them about 5% a year. Well, if you're making 5% a year on your money on one side and on the other side you're losing 15% because of the debt, you're losing money faster than you're making money money. And if there is a way to access the money in your retirement with no penalties and no taxes to pay off that high interest rate debt. Right. Once the person understands that's even viable, that's even a possibility, it's a no brainer for a lot of people.

Yeah, no, I think it's great. I love it.

So 15 is a heck of a vig too. Yeah, that's no good.

So have you seen, you know, I mean we've all been impacted by the coronavirus and shutdown of the economy and I mean have you, have you and your team, have you had to implement changes in how you operate and how you're, you know, talking to businesses and solutions, you're trying to come up with them? I know there's a lot of, you know, I don't want to use the word panic, but I'm going to with people just, you know, trying to survive and get through this stuff until things turn around. And then the second part of this is, what do you think this recovery is going to look like once we get, get going again?

Well, you know, I'm going to answer that three different ways. Number one, we're impacted as a business because you know, we're all working remot remote. Right now I've got a staff about 13 employees and I was used to seeing their, their lovely faces every single day at the office. Right. It was just walk down the hall, hey, where are we at with this? And now I gotta draw up, I gotta write up this huge email to ask questions. So it's just adjusting to communication and zoom calls and Gmail chats and you know, just a different way of communicating. So there's definitely, you know, every business out there is having to adjust. And then number two, when it comes to conversations with People, there's just the conversations we're having are a lot longer. People right now want to talk and they want to talk about their challenges and ways that we can help them. Anyone that has an IRA or 401k, obviously the cares act impacts them in some way, shape or form if they've been impacted by COVID 19. Because the CARES act says if you've been impacted by COVID 19, you can take up to $100,000 out of your retire retirement account with no penalties. And as long as you pay yourself back within three years, there's no taxable event. That's huge. That's never really been done. And then I also have people that I've talked to. I was talking to someone the other day and they're like, hey, I want to be able to do something different with my retirement account. Do I qualify for the CARES Act? But this person hasn't been impacted. In fact, their business is essential and they're working even more. So they wouldn't qualify for the CARES act, but since they're an entrepreneur, do qualify for what's called a Solo 401K. And Solo 401K is an IRS Approved Retirement Account that allows you to access the money in that plan with no penalties, no taxes. So it's almost like a Swiss army knife. You can just do so many cool things with this account. And so really it's just understanding where people are coming from and how we can help them. Because what you just said is very true. There's a lot of people that are worried right now, a lot of people that are anxious, that are not sleeping as much and that are just stressed thinking about, you know, their finances now and where they're going to be in, in the foreseeable future. And that's the problem is we don't know what the future looks like. I'm certainly not a pessimist by any means. I mean, I've been told that I'm too positive sometimes, where, sometimes I'm not real realistic enough. And I think that's probably a trait of a lot of entrepreneurs. We're always trying to see the, the bright side of things and, and, but here in Las Vegas, I just see how, how much we've been impacted by COVID 19. The strip is completely a ghost town. Probably a hundred thousand from, from all the casinos and hotels and, and I just look at it as okay when they do allow people to go back to work and, and back to business, that's going to be huge for all of us. But we're not going to just see a, A, a flip of the switch and things just go back to normal. Right. I mean, think about what, what, what quarterly earnings reports are going to look like from these hotels, these airlines, these, these, these cruise lines. I mean, the quarterly earnings reports are going to be just terrible for the next quarter or two. So that's going to impact things. I just think it's just going to be a choppy, a choppy year all the way around just because it's just going to take a little bit of time for the machine to get ramped up. But, you know, we're resilient. I know we'll come through. It's just going to take a little bit of time.

Yeah. Well, that's great. I, I share your optimism and I would much rather be unrealistic when as a, as a byproduct of that sometimes.

You have to be. Sometimes I think, yeah. You just of kind to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. That kind of attitude is what pulls us through these tough times. So speaking of tough times, and you alluded to it before, making mistakes. You know, we talk about mistakes on every episode of the show. We recently just published a small Business Pocket guide all about mistakes. And our guests that shared that, you know, we like them because they teach us so much. And looking back on them, what would you say is one of your best mistakes? One that stuck with you the most.

Most.

And it really taught you a valuable.

Lesson, not focusing on culture enough. So because I'm such a salesperson inside and out, you know, I've always just had the, the, the mentality of sales solve problems. I mean, I remember my first sales manager telling me that, like, sales solve problems. Whatever problem you have in your life, sales solve it. So go get on the phone and make some money. Right? So that, that's how I was taught at a young age. And there's some truth in that, right? Sales do drive the ship, and without sales, there's no business. But shoot, without a culture, there's no business. Right. Without operations, there's no business. So they all work hand in hand. And I was guilty of not focusing on the culture first and really been making an intentional effort over the last shoot, I'd probably say last year and a half, two years of really just focusing on culture and how we could instill the right kind of culture. And that's been really, really huge. It's paid dividends. Because when we have experienced challenges like where we are today with COVID 19, because of our strong culture, we're able to still pull through, we're able to still row the boat, we're able to still function as a business and keep moving forward to serving our clients. And so culture is just so, so important. And there's been times where I've kept certain people around just because of the production and you know, I made that choice over the culture and it's costed me. So it's gotta be culture first because that's the identity of the team and that's how you get people to buy in.

Yeah, I think that's some great advice coming from a top line sales guy like I am. I always have thought that too. At the expense of sometimes of this culture, part of it. And I do think that's really great to be able to slow down and that's part of that transition. Right. If you're great hard driving salesperson and you want to create your own business and your company, you do have to shift into another role to protect, to build and then protect that culture. I think that's great. That's very cool. So what's the future hold for you and for Quest? Are you really focused on growth or are you still building out systems to support your existing customers? What's the next few years look like for you?

I think a combination of the two. Right. I mean you can't grow so big where your systems and operations fall behind and they become archaic. So it's definitely keeping up with our systems and our efficiency and our bread and butter, our secret sauce. Really at the end of the day though is customer service is speaking to people, is giving them love, not looking at them as, just as a number, but looking them as a human and knowing their situation inside and out and being able to have regular conversations with these people. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to somebody where the person that helped them with their retirement account, they haven't talked to them in two years. And the last time they talked to them two years ago was only to invest money. That's sad because at the end of the day there's a lot of other ways to help people and being able to speak with them. But you'll never know that unless you actually have a conversation with them. So just finding more ways to add more value to our existing clients is always, always huge. But then like any other business, it's, it's scaling, it's, it's growing, it's being able to identify some, some new ways to add more volume and add more clients. But more importantly, it's, it's investing into the team and, and, you know, promoting people within the team and giving them the skill set and the training to keep moving up. Because, you know, if we have a team that really enjoys what they do and they buy into the mission and they truly believe without a doubt in their mind that, that they're helping somebody, they're going to give it their all and they're going to make sure that people feel that through the phone. You know, energy is so huge. Energy transfers through the phone. People can feel it.

Yeah, well, we call it here. You know, we talk about business therapy a lot and it sounds like, especially lately, you and your team are doing a lot of business therapy for small business owners.

I was on the phone yesterday with a client for an hour and a half. That's great. A lot of it had to do with just relatability. I, I had a child at 18 years old and her, her mother and I aren't together and we haven't been together for a long time. So we've been doing the whole, you know, raising a kid in two different households, two different parenting styles. And you know, I was just talking to, talking to my clients. You're just asking me questions. And we were just, we were just talking and you know, I know she really, really appreciated it. And little things like that go a long way. I didn't make money on.

Oh, yeah, call.

Right. I didn't sell her anything, but.

Right.

Yeah, but you, you reminded each other that you're human beings. And I, I feel like that is such an important thing, especially right now when we can't see each other face to face. Not that your business involves a lot of face to face, but, you know, finding however you can do that with your clients now and in the future when we can get back together. But, you know, it's that, that, that human contact, like you said, you can, can. You can communicate a lot of energy over the phone. That's important to remember because it doesn't always translate through email. In fact, it often does not. So.

Yeah, sure. That's for sure. And I would argue that that's part of building wealth for your business. Right. You have these customers that become extremely loyalty. So wealth is, it's a very broad term. It's not just about money. It's that culture you're building, Daniel. It's these customers that are really loyal to you. And that person is going to remember that phone call for years or forever and drive business to you and reward you in all kinds of other ways. So I think it's really cool. So before we wrap up, I have one final question for you. For small business owners that are really struggling right now, maybe they don't have, you know, the capital they need or they're, you know, they can't service their debt during tough times, what would you say is the single most important bit of advice that you could leave them with today? You know, what, what should they be focused on or what can they do?

You know, two parts. One, I know that that defeats the purpose of your question, but I want to make sure that I can give value to everyone. If you have an IRA or a 401k from a previous employer, reach out to me, reach out to my team and we could show you a different way to maybe look at that, that account from a different lens. That can solve some of those cash flow issues that could help you restructure some of that high interest rate debt or get you some capital for your business to get you through everything. So, so that's number one. But number two, whether you have money in a retirement account or not, I really, really think that focusing on your credit is just so important. I would not have been able to start the business a few years ago if it wasn't for credit. Right. There's a difference between good debt and bad debt. Bad debt is me using that money to go to Hawaii and spending a bunch of money out there, money that I'm not going to get back. I don't get an ROI on that, that. But if I use my credit card and I use it for a marketing campaign, or I invest into a business development program or a training program, or, you know, something to do with my business in some way, shape or form, right? That, that, that's a positive debt, right? That's, that's going into some kind of asset where at least I have a chance of making my money back. But you don't get yourself in that spot if you don't have a good credit score. And for me, I didn't have a good credit score when I was younger, but luckily I was able to kind of shape up along the way. And having a good credit score is so important right now. There's probably a lot of people that were making silly decisions, buying things that they couldn't afford leading up to 2020, getting into debt, not worrying about their credit score. And now they're stressed. They would love a loan from the bank, they'd love a 0% interest rate credit score card, they'd love an SBA loan, they'd love something. But Shoot right now if you don't have credit, it's tough. So you know there's going to be another down, downturn. The economy does this right every 5, 10 years there's just going to be some kind of contraction. This isn't going to be the last time. So when this does happen, you want to make sure your credit is on point so you can make moves.

That's great. I think that's great advice. You know, Daniel, thank you again for, for coming on the show. What's the best way for our listeners to connect with you and to learn more about Quest education?

Yeah, best thing to do would go to your quest.com it's y o u r quest q U-E-S-T.com and there's a section contact us, fill out some basic information and then you can get on the phone with my team. And again, we're not on the phone to just give you a high sales, high pressured sales pitch and sell you some stock or insurance product. It's all about asking questions and finding out what challenges you're going through and what options are on the table that can help. And then if you want to follow me, I'm pretty active on Facebook. I do my best to make people laugh, hopefully inspire some people and then talk a little bit about the self directed retirement account world and retirement accounts for business owners and just giving some education there. So you can find me in Las Vegas, Daniel Blue. Blue, like the color. Pretty sure I'm the only Daniel Blue in Las Vegas. So if you see me there, feel free to, to follow me. Great.

We'll put a link in the show notes to your website as well as the Facebook link and everything else. And thank you again for coming on. It's fascinating, really a great look at not only creating your own business out of something that you've been doing for so long, but also just I think some great advice for small business owners that are looking at different ways to raise capital, pay off debt and create that system to build wealth. We really appreciate your time to today.

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for coming, man. I love this. I, I love that his whole business is, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I emotionally support all conspiracy theories. I can't intellectually support them all, but I emotionally like, I cheer them all on. But I love that his whole thing is like his, I mean his pitch but also his business is founded on this whole thing like Wall street is only going to do things that make Wall street money. So they're not going to encourage you to do any of this stuff like that. That resonates with me. That's good.

Totally makes sense. And it's such a different way. You know, I'm drawn to it because I've built my whole life and built, you know, wealth around doing things differently than other people.

Right.

And, and not listening to this. They're not the status quo and you need to do this and that. So that concept of wow, you know, if you need an alternative way to raise capital and do this and pay down debt, I mean, it's just an interesting concept. And he's just a heck of a nice guy and it's great to see him move from employee to employer and build his business.

Well. And there was, that, there was huge, I think that. And he doesn't see it this way because he's never seen it another way. But that whole, you know, two parts sales process is something I really don't see adopted in most small businesses because it's just not how entrepreneurs think. And, and he's an entrepreneur for sure. But his sales knowledge, his, the, his trust in the, the system of sales comes from having been an employee where he didn't have to make the risky decision of saying, okay, yeah, that's good point. Bifurcate the relationship. You know that, because that's really risky if you. And we don't do that at Backbeat. And I'm wondering if we should, you know, but it's, yeah, I'm somebody like you, you know, I'm a relationship guy. And to, you know, to think about passing the relationship off. I mean, it's, it's, you know, I've seen fail. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it's interesting. He has confidence in it. Yeah.

Yeah, it does. And I loved his mistake. You know, his best mistake is, you know, not focusing on culture, focusing on sales. I've totally done that over and over and over. So I think that's great. Yeah. And you know, this will he, he will definitely be in the second edition of our mistakes Small Business Pocket Guide. And if you don't know what that is, go to BusinessShow Co guides, BusinessShow Co guide. And that'll take you over to our first Pocket Guide for small business owners. It's all about mistakes. And we share over the last five years, all the guests that we've had on and all the different mistakes that they've talked about. And you'll hear me talk about my million dollar mistake, which is always fun.

Well, it's fun now.

Now that it's like 15 years later. It's a great lesson. Always fun. Not at the time. Not at the time. Thanks for listening, folks.

We.

Yeah, we appreciate it.

I.

Right, folks? Well, that's. That's it. Make sure you visit. Easy for me to say. Make sure you visit lino.comsbs to get that 20 credit. That's a nice little path to leading that charmed life. See you next time.