Derek Vervoorn of Untapped Revenue – Small Business Show Episode 276

Well, here we are again, folks, at the Small Business show. Right, Shannon.

We are here another day or another week of trying to get things back in business, and I'm really happy. We have a guest today that was really hammered by this whole lockdown thing. Their whole concept of their business is really personal, often require people to get really close to one another. So it's going to be very interesting to hear how they've either kept things going or changed things and what their plan is for, you know, as we. As we all start getting work again. I'm really excited to talk to him today.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Very, very timely and interesting because he's worked with these businesses for a long time and then had to pivot big time very, very quickly.

And it's still. We're still kind of on that systems concept because he's. They've developed, you know, systems to help these businesses out, and it's going to be great. I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Yeah. I want to take a minute and talk about our first sponsor here today, which is PDF pen from smile@smilesoftware.com podcast. PDF pen 12 is the new version, and it's the ultimate tool for editing PDFs on the Mac and other platforms. You can use it on your iPad and iPhone, and it even supports your Apple Pencil there. But PDF pen 12 for the Mac adds in features like the ability to optimize your PDFs for smaller file sizes with customizable image compression settings. This is huge. We're all sending documents around even more than we used to. Right? And being able to make sure yours are compressed but still looking good makes it so that you can send them via email without it running up against mail server limits. And all of that stuff makes a huge difference. I always talk about with PDF Pen how I like to sign things, but. But sometimes you get those DocuSign links, right? That's just how it works. Guess what? PDF Pen 12 now built in DocuSign support for digitally signing your PDFs that way, so you can use it even in the world of DocuSign, which is great. Like I said, it supports macOS, Catalina, the latest version there, and then also iPad and iPhone with iOS 13 and Apple Pencil. You can learn more about PDF Pen and PDF Pen Pro at smilesoftware.com podcast. Go check it out. And our thanks to PDF Pen and Smile for sponsoring this episode. All right, Shannon, you got anything else before we listen to Derek here?

I'm ready, man. Let's do it.

All Right. He is Shannon Jean. I'm Dave Hamilton and this is episode 276 of the Small Business Show.

We look at Facebook and even YouTube and Instagram and we see them as marketing channels now. Right. And when they first started, they were social connection channels. Right. They're about connecting with your friends and family and sharing and building relationships and fostering relationships. And we've kind of gotten away from that where it's just like, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. Here's an offer, here's an offer, here's an offer. So kind of going back to the roots of what social media really was created for, was again, connection and building relationships. People are going to, it's going to be a breath of fresh air because we've moved so far away from, from that where everybody's just, you know, discount here, freebie here. And so, yeah, as I mentioned, it's a breath of fresh air and it allows people to build a relationship before you even offer something to.

Hey, Dave. You know, we talk about it a lot. Everybody reads about it right now. You know, small businesses have been hit so hard during this Covid, you know, lockdown of the economy, but maybe, you know, none as much as, like, personal services like barbers, salons, gyms. Totally, you know, just done. Yeah. And with, with. I don't know when they're coming back. It's kind of crazy. So today on the show, we have a great opportunity. We have a guest that specializes in implementing systems which everybody knows we love, specifically for gyms, personal trainers, CrossFit, YOG Studios, and things like that. And I just couldn't think of a better time to learn about untapped revenue and their system to help personal services get back in business as we all get back to work. So welcome Derek Vervooren of Untapped Revenue. Thank you so much for joining us today, Derek. We really appreciate it, Derek.

Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

That's cool. So I have a bunch of questions, obviously, about helping you know, what your plan is and how you've had to adjust your business going through everything. But first, let's just talk about your business. What, what does untapped revenue do? What services do you offer? You know, give us the elevator pitch, if you will.

Yeah, absolutely. So Untapped Revenue is a full service membership, growth agency. And as you mentioned, we specialize with gyms, fitness studios, CrossFit facilities, and we basically do everything that we possibly can to help a one of our clients bring a click from Facebook and turn them into a client. So we take care of all their ads, we take care of all their follow up and we help them with the sales. So we do as much as we possibly can to make it as easy for them to turn a click into a client.

Oh, that's cool, that's great. And it all starts on social media. That's really your, your, your niche there.

Yeah, exactly. So our bread and butter is, is Facebook ads.

Is Facebook ads. That's great, that's cool. So now is this your first business venture? I have read about on LinkedIn, I looked and about Facebook expertise and everything and I'm just wondering if you've done other things with that or is untapped revenue your, you know, your rollout venture.

So untapped revenue is the first thing that me and my business partner ever got off the ground.

So hey, that's great.

Yeah, I mean I think with any entrepreneur they've definitely had ideas that they thought the world of but never ended up, you know, coming to fruition. So had a few of those ideas and this was all happening while I was at university learning how to get a job. But what I learned was that I did not want a job. So welcome to the club.

Yeah.

Look to look around to find some opportunities to, you know, start a business, work online and at home. So the first thing that we actually looked at was dropshipping and I'm not sure if you're familiar with that model, but that's just E commerce. Right. You put up a website, you sell the products from China, China ships it to the consum and you basically pocket the difference. You charge, you upcharge for whatever product that was and that was a cool idea but never really enticed us enough to really, you know, put the metal to the floor. Right. Really gas it. So we decided to move into social media and thankfully I had a very close personal relationship with my gym back home. I'd been going there for a long time. They'd helped me with, I did Muay Thai for a long time and they'd help me with my training there. So I had a relationship with them and with the newfound skills that I had with social media, I was able to offer my services for free and just help them out, get them grow their business and basically that after that it was history. We got really great results for them and then we just basically got a case study and stayed with gyms. It's just where we've, we started and fortunate enough we got a great result to begin with. And we continued that way.

That's cool. Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's. We love niches here, and it just seems like such a unique niche and it's great. So sticking with. At, you know, talking about the business, is that kind of the biggest problem with this gym and personal services type thing is that customer turnover? So are you always constantly having to look for new members? Is that. Is that the issue or.

Yeah, I'd say that's. That's one of their biggest challenges is attrition. Typically with. With all the clients that, that we've serviced over the. The few past three years is their average retention is about six to eight months. So that's not typically. That's not too, too long. So they're always looking for acquisition and then how to help retain. Those are the big two challenges that we actively help them improve upon so that they can increase the retention, keep members a little bit longer, and obviously continue to acquire more so they can get to max capacity and maybe open up another location.

So I want to dig in a little bit on this because this is interesting to me, the acquisition part. I mean, I'm no Facebook ads expert. In fact, there's a lot I want to learn from. But the acquisition part makes sense to me that doing that with Facebook ads, reaching out to the right audiences and doing it the right way. And I don't know the right way, but you do, then that makes sense. But in terms of retention, how are you using Facebook ads? Or are you using Facebook ads to do that?

So we're not. You're not typically using Facebook ads to help with retention. That's. That's all basically internal. Right. Figuring out what, you know, the problems are, why people are leaving. Got it. And then obviously solving those problems. Right. That's the biggest thing is as opposed to just letting people leave, understand why they're leaving, see if you can get them to fill out a survey. And be honest with you, you're not going to hurt her feelings. Why are you typically leaving? And if you can solve those problems, you can typically help with retention and keep people a little bit longer. But there definitely are things that you can do in terms of Facebook advertising just because you want by attracting the right type of person. Right. If you attract somebody who's a tire kicker and they're only interested in a quick fix, then that's not necessarily a great member to acquire because they're not typically going to stay too long. But if you, you know, tweak your marketing and maybe have some valuable Content out there that's attracting your perfect avatar. You hear that a lot in the marketing space. Then you're going to acquire somebody who's going to actually stay with you for a longer period of time. They understand that fitness and wellness is not a one month pill or something that you can just take and it's done. It's an. It's a lifelong thing that you need to be focusing on.

Right, sure. No, that makes total sense. Yep, absolutely.

So you're helping these businesses kind of create the profiles of who they should be targeting to bring into the gym so that the attrition is less, is that right?

No, not necessarily.

Typically, the gym owner knows who their perfect person is. We have them fill out a survey whenever a new client jumps on board with us. And typically they know, okay, this is our, you know, this is our meat and potatoes of who we have on average, more of like if it's female or male or what age demographic. Are they married, are they not married? Different stuff like that. So they know who their best members are. And then it's just about a matter of configuring your ads and configuring the marketing strategy to acquire more of those types of people.

I got it. Okay. That makes sense. And does. Untapped revenue, Are they paying you a percentage of what you bring in? Is it a monthly service? How do the gyms pay you guys?

Yeah, so we're a monthly service subscription. Yeah.

Oh, that's great. That's cool. That's fascinating. So let's talk about the impact of the crazy virus and shutting down the economy. Certainly gyms and the type of businesses that you guys are helping have really taken a hit. And have you implemented changes in how you operate and the services that you're offering as small business owners? And then secondly, you know, what's, what's the plan for recovery for the types of businesses that you guys are servicing?

Yeah. So just to answer the first part of the question there, we've definitely pivoted. We've had to make a huge change to how we're going to service our clients because, I mean, we can't do what we were traditionally doing. You can't get a person to fill out a form to come to a physical location because everybody's confined to their homes right now. Right. So what we had to do is help them create an online program that they can offer and have it be 100 online. So we basically created a separate business model for our clients to market and advertise to help them kind of subsequent or substitute that income that they're not necessarily getting from the brick and mortar portion of the business that they've always relied on. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's. That's awesome. And I. I really commend you for looking at that and not panicking and figuring out, okay, how do we shift. How long did it take you guys to start implementing? You know, I'm out California. We kind of shut down out here in mid March, I guess it was, you know. Did you kind of know right away, oh, you know, we're in trouble and. And sit down and roll this thing out quickly, or did it take a few weeks?

It definitely took a few weeks, kind of. And Hindsight is always 2020, as they say. Right. It would have been great if we were on top of it a little bit sooner, but as we started, you know, hearing through the grapevine of what was happening throughout the world, as well as clientsing or clients sharing concerns, that's when we really started to look into this online solution. Because we figured just, I mean, we're kind of. We're in the same situation that we can't service our clients if our clients can't service their clients.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We needed to find a solution, and it's actually been working really well because people need fitness. Even though they're staying at home. A person who is in great shape and always going to the gym, say they're going to the gym five days a week, they're not going to be okay with the status quo of waiting four months or whatever. However long this lockdown is, they need an alternative solution. So creating something online to service those people. And also, there's always people that are looking like, today's the day that I get in better shape. Happens every day. Tons of millions of people. So giving them something that they can actually implement, use, get results with while staying home was really important for us to help our clients implement and get started.

Now, that's really smart. My wife's gym absolutely jumped right on that bandwagon and started streaming with some stumbles and they had to iterate and figure out how to get the audio right and all of that stuff. But absolutely, yeah, people are into it for sure.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think. I think a lot of people are very forgiving during this time.

Right.

They understand that this is. This is totally new for a fitness location. They've always been brick and mortar. They're doing this new online thing. I think there's a lot more forgiveness with, like you said, there's these iterations there's these bugs that necessarily need to be fixed. So there's a little bit of grace period where you're allowed to, you know, we're migrating, please be kind. We're doing our best here, and I think people get that. So it's a very forgiving time to move to the different model.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. We've had a lot of businesses online lately, or here on the show lately, talking about shifting things online, everything, you know, you can imagine. And one of them was a therapist and talking about how actually it showed lots of promise and there was some real positive things about doing it online. I would imagine. As you're talking to these, you know, panic gym owners, you kind of got to act like a therapist yourself. Right. You know, calming them down. Okay, here we have a plan. I mean, are you finding yourself mainly focused on your existing customer base of gyms to say, look, it's going to be fine, we have this program coming to place? Or are you still then bringing in new customers? How's that working for you?

Yeah, so right now we're primarily focusing on our existing clients. We want to make sure that they're taken care of. And as you said, we're doing the best that we can to keep them calm and keep them happy and make sure things are still working for them. That's the most important for us. Importance for us right now because. Yeah. And. And it's also. It's funny that you say it mentioned a therapist. It's therapeutic for me to share that everything's going to be okay because even though I'm telling somebody else that I'm thinking that myself.

Oh, totally.

Right.

Yeah. Because you're hearing the words. I mean, you're. We talk about it on the show all the time. You know, you're kind of creating this reality as you talk about it.

Exactly.

And it's cathartic.

Right. It's great.

And that. That's a good thing to point out. Like on your website@untapped-revenue.com, you guys have some great videos with your clients. I assume gym owners and that kind of thing are the ones I listened to a few of those really great interaction and just kind of the real deal of somebody. Not really scripted, not slick and polished, but just real. And I think it's really effective. And have you guys done that from the start?

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. But yeah, that's. That's typically how we've gone. I mean, we definitely have a structure that we have in mind. Right. Certain questions that we want to ask so that they can be very valuable and informative videos for other potential prospects looking at them. But very much want it to be an open conversation. We don't want them to feel that they like. We want them to be completely open and honest and not say, you know, we're going to get on a call. I want you to say this and only this. Yeah, we don't really necessarily feel that the right way to go about it. So I'm glad that that impression came through on your end.

Yeah, it really struck me because I mean, we deal with so many different businesses and you know, a lot of them are, you know, great. They're all awesome. But some of them are really over. I think some of the videos and things that they do kind of over produced. And I liked that it was just a couple of people talking about it, you know, the guy in his T shirt and this and that. But that it, it connected with me because I'm like, oh, that's like me. You know, if I was a guy, I'd be like, I need help, you know, so it was very cool. So is. So how do you get, you know, your voice heard above all the other marketers out there? You know, there's just, it seems like a crowded field. You know, what's worked the best for you? Are you using your same Facebook techniques to bring gym owners to you guys or what do you do?

Yeah, so that's a great question. And there's a few things that come to mind that have really helped us out the most. And in terms of Facebook ads, it's magnitudes different running a national campaign like we do for our business compared to a local business ad. But we've definitely had a lot of success in terms of doing our own Facebook ads. That's. That's something that helped, has helped us get our voice heard, as you say. Yeah. And also as I mentioned in the very beginning, when, when we first started, we were working for free with my personal friend that owned a gym. Getting that first case study and having it be a really good result was a really good way for us to showcase that, you know, we know what we're doing. This isn't just we're not. We didn't go on YouTube last night and watch a YouTube video about how to do Facebook ads. And now we're claiming to be experts, we actually have a result and that really allowed us to kind of penetrate, I think all the noise. And then lastly, I think it's been, word of Mouth. We've. We've been very fortunate that our client. Our clients have been happy with the results we've been getting them so much as to share with their friends and colleagues. And that's been a great stream of new prospects coming to us.

Oh, that's great.

Very cool. All right, so I mentioned this before. I'm an idiot with Facebook ads, so. As dummy Dave, because I think we might have some listeners that know a little bit more than me, but not nearly as much as you. If someone's looking to get started, what are the mistakes that people make that you can just guide people against? Real quick, as we're just kind of giving people a lay of the land because I think there's a lot of value here.

Yeah.

So the biggest mistake, what's interesting, I think the biggest mistake when it comes to small businesses running Facebook ads is not having underlying systems behind their Facebook ads. I honestly believe, like. Because honestly, setting up Facebook ads is pretty simple.

Well, that's the problem. They're simple. But. But if you don't. They aren't necessarily effective just because they're easy.

That's a very good point. That's a very good point. But, sorry, what I. What I mean by the. The. The underlying systems is if you're setting up a Facebook ad to get somebody to opt in, having some, like in either automation or somebody on your team ready to call this person or text this person is very important because in the online space, if somebody opts into your offer on Facebook and you don't reach out to them within 10 to 30 minutes, they've already forgotten.

Huh.

Oh, wow.

So it needs to be very, very quick. Otherwise you're. You're just burning your ad money, which is very unfortunate. So if you are only running Facebook ads and you don't have any sort of autom behind it, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. And that is honestly. And it's a little bit of a sidestep to your initial question just on Facebook ends, but that's the biggest thing that we see is not having anything after the lead has been acquired is really the biggest thing that's hurting people.

No, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, you gotta follow up. Right. So I will ask one more question. Facebook always encourages me to target get wider and wider as I'm going through their thing. And to me, that seems counterintuitive. It seems like, no, I just want to target very specific groups and see how they do and then expand from there. Is Facebook right? Or am I.

And that's Going to depend on the type of business that you're running. So in terms of your ads, are you guys targeting all of the United States, all of North America? Us? All of.

Well, I mean, likely, yes. But more than that, let's say we, we have you on the show. Right. And so I might want to target people that are interested in buying Facebook ads. Right. I mean, I know that's a little meta, right? But you know, go with me on this. Right? Someone that's looking to learn about what an area where you have expertise. We've just had you on the show, so I really try to target that. And as soon as I do it, Facebook says, well, you should, you know, you should expand your targeting. You should expand. They lead me down the funnel until it feels like, well, now I'm just targeting the world. So I like how granular. Is too granular or is. Is there no too granular?

Yeah, so that's. That's a, that's a really great question. And quite honestly, because, like, Facebook has. Has very, very, very smart technology and artificial intelligence.

Right?

So we're actually noticing that if you're doing more national campaigns, letting face, like letting, like releasing some of the reins or the reel, like if you're fishing, you don't necessarily want to pull too tight. Letting go a little bit is actually better because Facebook knows more than anybody in the entire world could possibly know.

Got it.

Okay.

So let them guide me. Let them, Let them take some liberties. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, like, when you have your Facebook pixel installed and you're optimizing for something, and I might be getting into a more tech technical talk here.

No, this is great. This is stuff that small business owners are dealing with for sure. Yeah.

Okay. But again, this is, this is a little bit different, but if. When it comes to local businesses, like, if you only service within a 5 mile radius, then stay there, of course.

Got it.

But when it comes to more national campaigns, you want to let Facebook get a little bit more wiggle room. Because when you have that pixel installed, Facebook's gonna find regardless if you're. Even if you have no targeting, like, broad, meaning just the United States and like an age range, Facebook's gonna find people that are more related to the people that have already opted in. And if you narrow down too, too small, that doesn't give Facebook enough of a pond to really fish in.

Okay, so you just answered my question, and that is make sure you use that Facebook pixel on your landing page, even if you're not using it for any. Any Follow up reasons by allowing them. And of course, there's some, you know, you got to buy into this and. And there's the privacy issues of allowing Facebook to know things about your website's readers. But. But by doing that now, you've just made your ads more effective because now Facebook can profile and find people similar. That makes perfect sense.

Absolutely.

Yeah, Absolutely. Okay.

Facebook knows so much about its users. We want to allow them to do what they do best. And oftentimes, marketers, because we, we understand the technology, we kind of stunt their growth. And by targeting too much. And yeah, we're finding. And a lot of the best people in this space are finding the same things is if you allow Facebook to just do their job, you know, don't target too, too much, don't do interest interest targeting, over interest targeting, and just keep layering it. Facebook's going to find your right prospect at the right time for them.

Makes perfect sense. Thank you. Thank you for walking through that. That's super valuable. And if you need more than that, then go talk to Derek and he'll take care of.

Yeah, that's great. And what I like is, I mean, you talked about mistakes and Facebook mistakes and everything, but we're big fans of mistakes on the show. We talk about it all the time. We talk about it with every guest. I really liked your transparency when we. At the beginning of the interview where you say, well, this was the first thing that really got off the ground for us because that authenticity is great and it helps aspiring business owners know, oh, okay, I may not make it with the first few things I try, but then this next thing. So keeping on that, that topic of mistakes, is there a mistake that you made either with untapped revenue or maybe one of the other things trying to get started that that stuck with you and taught you a valuable lesson that you can share with us on the show.

Biggest mistake I'd have to say. And just before I get into it, I love how you say best mistake because I'm a big believer of you learn or you win. Right. There's no failing.

Yes.

I love that. And so by best mistake, we definitely have a best mistake that comes to mind. So I think it was either. I think it was 2019. 2019, things were going really well. Our Facebook ads were doing great. We were getting a lot of different clients. And we had heard that the natural evolution of an agency was to move from done for you, which is what we were doing, and move it over to done with you do it yourself, which means you Create an online program or a coaching platform where you can show people how to do it on their own. So we were like, great, this is what we'll do. We'll shut off all our ads that were, that were going well right now for the done for you. We'll create this online program because we have it all systemized how to do it on our end. We'll show people how to do it on their end. And so after months and months and months and months of advertising and speaking to gym owners about this, this new program, we realized that this is not what they wanted. We realized that they wanted it to be taken care of for them. They didn't necessarily have the time. They were technologically intolerant. They didn't necessarily want to be behind the computers. So by understanding this and getting all that feedb, we have since stopped offering this course and went full, just head over heels into completely full servicing. So we do much more for our clients than we did before the mistake. But ultimately I think it's made us a better agency because we look at it now as okay, how, what else can we take off of our clients hands or what else can we help them optimize to get them a better result? And I remember one of my mentors sharing with me that the lazier you can make your clients while still being successful, the better.

Oh, I love that.

Make your clients lazy. Oh, lazy and successful. I like that. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and successful. Very key caveat.

Yes, very key. Right, yeah. Because you need them to be successful so they can keep paying you. That's the point. Right?

Yeah, Yep, exactly. It's powerful. And you, you then iterated it, you know, and okay, now we're gonna, we're gonna, I mean we're such fans of these best mistakes and we just published a book called Mistakes the foundation of your small business. And you know, we share. So that mistake is definitely going to be in volume two.

That was, that was a big mistake. But again it's just, it was a big, it was a lesson that needed to be learned and we're better because of it.

Yeah, that's your two, that's your tuition as we always call it.

Yes, exactly.

It teaches us. So you know, one of the things I always like to do is I like to mix up techniques from one business to the net to others. Bringing over marketing that just, you know, works for one type of business to others because I think it creates new opportunities and brings fresh perspective to things for, and you talked a little bit about it, but for like Non gym owners and not people that don't run kind of these personal services. Is there another tip you could give them about, you know, social media that they could maybe apply to their marketing and think about doing with their company?

Company a tip for that's. That's no dependent on a niche. I'd have to say the best tip when it comes to social media marketing is to implement some goodwill. Goodwill marketing. This is something that we're doing with our gym owners, but it's. And even our business, but also it can be done in any small business, in any niche to help with your. Your offers. So let's say that three. Well, let's say let's use dentists as an example. Three dentists in the same area, like they service the same area. They're relatively close. They're all offering on Facebook a free teeth whitening, right? The. And to the consumer, that's a teeth whitening. A teeth whitening is a teeth whitening is a teeth whitening. There's no real differentiation there. They might look at the page and look at the reviews and stuff like that. But let's say one of the dentists is also putting out some ads that are very inexpensive, like a dollar a day that has a video testimonial of a result from one of their clients. They just had an amazing experience. They've been going there for years. Their children love it. Like it's just an amazing experience. They have that as an ad going out. They also have a valuable video going out. That's a tip that they can do at home to help them make sure that they, you know, whatever it is, they're never going to need dentures, whatever the biggest challenge or problem that their clients face, how can they solve that on their own and create a video around that and then also sharing your story, right? And the business owner, every business owner has a story as to why they started, what really keeps them going, what their why is. And sharing that, putting a face for people to empathize with behind the business really helps. So if one business has these three things, right, they have testimonials going out. They have valuable content that people can actually implement and get results with, and then also shares some, you know, stories to help the person empathize with them. I'm going to bet that a person scrolling on Facebook, if they see these different ads, but they've been indoctrinated with these one, with this one dentist who is offering all these, this valuable content. This, these stories, these testimonials, they're more than likely to go with that business because there's a few things that happen. There's some reciprocity. Right. They implemented this tip. It has done. It's worked for them. Now they feel the need to give back a little bit. It's helped them build a relationship. Even though it's video content and you haven't actually met the person, you feel like you know them, they've shared a story. You can empathize with it. Right. There's a few things that happen, and that's very different than just offering, hey, come get a teeth whitening.

Yeah. No.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it totally makes sense. You're, you're, you're adding value without asking for anything in return, and you're sharing your personal story, which make that connection with them. And combining those two things is great. That's a really valuable set of tips there.

Absolutely. Because. And sorry, if I just add one more thing.

Please.

We look at Facebook and even YouTube and Instagram and we see them as marketing channels now. Right. And when they first started, they were social connection channels. Right. They're about connecting with your friends and family and sharing and building relationships and fostering relationships. And we've kind of gotten away from that where it's just like, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, Buy my stuff. Here's an offer, here's an offer, here's an offer. Offer. So kind of going back to the roots of what social media really was created for, was again, connection and building relationships. People are going to. It's going to be a breath of fresh air because we've moved so far away from that, where everybody's just, you know, discount here, freebie here. And so, yeah, as I mentioned, it's a breath of fresh air and it allows people to build a relationship before you even offer something to them.

Yeah, that's huge. Yep.

Yeah. No, and that's what people are looking for. Yeah.

That's really great, Derek. I mean, some really great information here today that you shared with us, and I'm really happy to learn about your business. You know, with your, your depth of knowledge, it seems like you're really on the right track and. And it could expand well beyond to all kinds of other service businesses with your. Your systems that you're putting in place. So thank you again for coming on the show. What's the best way for our listeners to connect with you and to learn more about untapped revenue? Revenue.

Yeah, absolutely. So if anybody wants to learn more, they can Definitely go to www.untap-revenue.com. or they can add me on Facebook at Derek for Voron. Happy to have a conversation there too.

That's great. Yeah. We'll put all the links in the show notes for you can find at Business Show Co. And thanks again. I learned a lot. I always say that I learned the most on these shows, which is.

I learned the most today. Wait a minute.

I don't think so. Not, not, not this time. But, but thanks again and we really appreciate you coming on the show.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. It's been a pleasure.

Yeah, man, that was. As always. I like this. These interviews are great. We.

Yeah, he was terrific.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love his. The comments that Derek was making about connecting with people and not just, you know, commoditizing these social platforms. I thought that was really powerful.

You know, I've, I've found, I mean, certainly that resonates with me. It's what we do, right? We wind up sharing far more than we ask people to, to do for us. And I, and I think that, that, I mean, let's face it, that's kind of what I've built most of my career on is, is that is just getting people, let me help you. And then if there's something that I have that you want to buy from me or there's a way to, you know, monetize that relationship, great. But otherwise, I just want to help. But I think you need to be. And he said this. You need to be sincere about it. You do. Yeah, yeah. It can't be all, you know, just leaning in on, well, I'm going to give you this, but no, there will be a quid pro quo.

It's got to be authentic. I think if you find most people that are successful in whatever they do, it is authentic. And they do like giving back and adding value.

Totally, totally.

Yeah. Yeah. I also want to mention a couple things. Thank you for the reviews. We've been getting some great five star reviews lately. It really helps the show. It's one of the best things you could do for us. To give us 30 seconds of your day. Just go to businessshow co reviews or wherever you listen to the show, whatever podcast app, leave us a five star review, we would really appreciate it.

Yeah.

And also. Go ahead.

Well, I was going to say if your business is one that has reopened. You know, you mentioned at the beginning of the show, you mentioned hairdressers. Well, this week actually, hairdressers here in New Hampshire were given the green light and with massive restrictions, really only one person in the salon, you know, per hairdresser. So there's no waiting room. There's no, you know, I mean it all in a way that, at least to me, seems logical and safe and all of that. But. But I'm. I'm. I'd be curious to, you know, talk with someone that's. That's, you know, been opened up. And now what. What's it like? How. How's that go?

Yeah, that would be great.

Yeah.

And. And before we go, I want to let you guys know, give you a little teaser. Next week's show is all about virtual assistance. And, you know, it's one of the secrets to my success and how you can use them to create your charmed life by using them. So if you would love to be able to do exponentially more than you do now, you don't want to miss next week's show.

That'll do it. All right, folks, thank you so much for listening. Thanks for the reviews. Thanks for everything. We'll see you. We'll see you next time. Keep living that charmed life.