Does Your Work Ethic Match Your Partner's?

Are you ethical, man? I guess a better question is, do I think you're ethical? I think that's more important because this is not a universally definable thing. I mean, I think we could have a long debate which, that we're not going to have about whether or not it's a universally definable thing. But let's just set that aside. It doesn't matter. All that matters in terms of me being able to trust you as my business partner is, is whether I think you're ethical.

Yeah. And there's different degrees of ethics, what we're talking about, right?

Yeah.

Your honesty, integrity, your work ethic, which is what we're going to focus on today primarily. But that whole thing is critically important when you are setting up a new business and a possible partnership, as well as keeping your existing partnerships available or, you know, healthy and thriving. Yeah, it's really important. Very important.

Yeah, I agree. All right, well, that's what we're talking about today. So he is ethical, in my opinion, but he is also. Shannon Jean. I'm Dave Hamilton, and this is episode 265 of the Small Business Show. Well, here we are.

Here we are. We made it. We made it the day after Super Tuesday as we were ranting about politics before the show. But this is not a show about politics. Sometimes we talk politics only when it's as it relates to small business. And nobody wants to hear our political thoughts anyway, so they do hopefully want to hear about our small business experience. And today we're talking about, you know, what happens when your work ethic doesn't match up with your business partners, either, you know, a potential one or change all the time. And how should you communicate to potential or existing business partners what your work ethic expectation is? Right.

It's such an important thing. You know, we've talked about partnerships a lot on this show because getting it right can be. Can be awesome. I mean, it can be the results. It's. It truly is. When it's right, it can be those, you know, that. That some of the parts is greater, the parts thing, but when it's wrong, it's disastrous. And we've talked about both sides of that on this show. But I think it, you know, as. I'm, as I'm thinking of the disastrous partnerships, the whole work ethic thing, what an important. I mean, like, that's. That often is the key to disaster. If you've got a mismatch in work ethic.

Oh, it'll. It'll stop it before you get started.

That's it. Yep.

And if it kills something that's working well. Yeah, yeah.

If it doesn't, stop it before you get started. That's even worse because you just wasted a bunch of time because it will stop it eventually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let, let's define work ethic. And I was looking up some different definitions today, and one I like. I like two of them, actually. One from some dictionary that I found, but one Dave, I think has a good spin on it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a mild curse word here in a minute, just to your angel ears, if you're listening. But you know what defining work ethic, you know, it's a set of values centered importance of work and manifested. This part I like, manifested by determination or desire to work hard. I think it's a great definition. But what I really like is I was looking through these show notes that Dave was putting together earlier today that when you were doing. And you know, we're talking about communication and the quote from you was, you need to be upfront with your business partners about your discipline to get done. And I thought, man, that's powerful.

That sounds like something I would say. It's true.

Yeah. And, and that's what I read. I'm like, oh, we're going to do the show about this because I've, I've been in this situation a lot, actually. I was in, you know, I have had a failed startup about a year ago that I had just this kind of situation pop up where, you know, really had different ideas of, of what, what type of work and who should do it and how long it should be done. And it led me to kill. Kill it off because it just wasn't heading the right direction.

Well, thankfully you noticed it. I mean, I know you, I, you know, you and I talked sort of offline about that project as it was going, but. And I know you put some time and some money into it, so, you know, you didn't get out unscathed, but you got out without a disaster happening. And, and that's good. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was about to get much worse when you realize that, you know, this isn't. Isn't working. And, and so it's definitely wor. You know, how to communicate. Let's talk about at the start here about getting started. And you know, I think, Dave, you've had this experience a number of times where you get approached by someone that says, hey, I want to work with you. The emphasis I'm with. Right, yeah, I see that you're successful, we should start a business together. I've got a. Whatever, a good idea. I've got some money. I've got this, I've got that. And it can be great and it can be, it can bring along a lot of opportunities and I've had them happen like that and with the right person that it could be fantastic.

Oh, it's a, it's a wonderful thing to, to have created a position for myself where I, I mean, I'm a publisher. Right. I'm a podcaster. So I, I'm out in front all the time and I put on a pretty good face. Now behind the scenes, things aren't never as rosy as they look on the front, but things are pretty rosy. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Like, things are pretty good.

Had.

But I've had bad years. It's a charmed life. I've had years where I've lost more money than I've made. Like that, that, you know, and, and that's true recently too, you know, a few years ago was the case with that. But that kind of stuff happens. I get through it and, and so like that, that, that resilience. But also, you know, my work ethic is, I think, pretty obvious and, and that part I think does shine through fairly well here on the show and, and other things that I do. But you're right, it means that I get approached a lot. In fact, you approached me.

I was just gonna say that twice.

Twice. That's right.

To start two different companies over the years and it's like, honey, right? You're attracted to like, wow, what's. It's just how I do it. I look around, I have an idea. I know that I work hard and, and I'm, I'm. We just did a show about being addicted to productivity. I definitely am like that. And so when I start looking around to find someone because. Go. Let's go back to our first company we, we founded together, you know, 15 years ago, maybe on the web. Yeah, yeah.

I wanted more than 15 years ago. It was, it was. Yeah, it was 20 years ago.

18 years.

18 and a half. Yeah.

Yeah. So what I was looking for was a partner that had a different skill set and access to a different set of those skills and resources that I. Than I did and, and worked out great. You know, I also was being driven because I needed to pay for my kids private school. And I said, okay, I've got to figure I got to start a company that can generate the revenue. I'm a big. I'M a huge fan of the Rich Dad, Poor dad book series that talks about when you want something, you don't go get it. You create a revenue stream to pay for it first. And so in this case, I said, okay, well, I had this idea for this web thing and this and that. I wanted to change, do some different things. And, you know, I came at, called you, or contacted you, and, you know, the rest is history. But, you know, back then, you know, I don't. We don't. I don't recall we ever sat down and really flushed out a. A detailed working agreement.

We didn't. We got lucky. Yeah.

So it's just by luck that we, one or the other, wasn't disappointed, and I think it's worthwhile. Let's talk a little bit about those. Those first expectations on how to manage those.

Yeah.

You're setting up a new partnership.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, we've talked about that in the episodes that. Where we have discussed a working agreement, because, I mean, I'm pretty sure your concept of the working agreement came from, you know, your experience of what you've done right and what you've done wrong. But it's wrong. Yeah, but it's like what we did was we sat down and we said, okay, you know, and you had this vision in mind of how this could work, because you knew what you could bring to the table, and you knew what you needed brought to the table. And so you were like, all right, here's how I see it working. And it's like, that was. To me, that was very attractive because it was like, oh, look, somebody else that's looking at the big picture. Like, this is great. I had had business partners in the past prior to that that were valuable partnerships. Like, there was nothing wrong. But I'd never had a partner that. That looked at the big picture that way. Like, me. Like, all right, how do we divide this up? Like, clear cut. Who's going to do it? When's it going to get done like that. In that sense, we were very much the same. And it was like, oh, this is attractive, you know, and I like that. And it. And it worked, you know, because we did have different skill sets. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a good point that you bring up, and I would say it's even a precursor to the working agreement, is to ask if you are approached by someone that wants to get in business with you, have them write up what they want to do and how they see it working. Oh, and I believe you will be amazed at how many people can't even give you that? You, I mean, you can even just, look, make it a. Well, you can make it a one pager if you want, but give me an introduction. Give me a, you know, a dashboard or a high level view of your idea, your concept, how it will work, who will do what and why, you know, why you want to come and have me be involved. You know, it's kind of like the, if you want to say like the shark tank, you know, quick interview thing. You're just trying to get, you know, do they have the ability to vocalize or put in writing what they want? And I know you are going to. You will just eliminate a big group of people that can't get to that far. So if you do get that write up and it could be as simple as a one pager, that's great. They're following through. They're doing something instead of just coming and dumping, laying a turd in front of you and asking you to turn it into a diamond, which is very common often. Okay, Shannon, I see that you never stop working and you're always doing this. So here, here's my idea. You run with it and then let me know what I need to do. Yeah, that, that doesn't work. And I would say that most small business people are serial entrepreneurs, have been in that situation.

It happens all the time.

And.

Yeah, and I. Yeah, yeah, it's stupid. I have a whole story I want to tell and rant about, but I'm not going to because of a lot of reasons, including a nondisclosure clause that was part of the settlement agreement. But, you know. Yeah, but that, that's exactly what you. That's the right thing to do, is suss this person out. Now, you may encounter someone who's a very good liar, and I don't necessarily want to imply that they know that they're lying to you. Right. But some people are really good at sensing what you need to hear and then telling you that whether or not they, they're aware of it. Like, you know, we all do that at some level and it can be a very valuable skill.

But you need to kind of persuading.

Right, it's persuasion. Exactly. It's like, let me mirror your, your patterns and your cadence and your thoughts and tell you the things that you have told me you want to hear. So you need to be very careful when someone approaches you. Not to get overly like, well, I can, I can only speak for me. I'm an excitable guy. I like to talk. And so as soon as somebody brings me an idea, I, my natural instinct is to just like, let's spend two hours on the phone and go nuts, dig deep, dissect it all. I'm going to divulge a lot about what I want in that conversation, as I should. Right. But the problem is if I at the end of that tell you, hey man, so now that we've had this, it sounds like a great idea. Why don't you write up how this is going to work? You know exactly what to write to make me read what I want to read. Now that's, I mean, good point. You know, you, so you got to be able to suss that out somehow and then, and so be aware of, even if you get to that point and you are like me and you do that, it's nothing wrong. I mean it's how I work and it's worked out. Okay. It's burned me a couple times, but it's also been very successful some, a few times. So. But just be aware of like are they ask that question? That's the question I ask is are they just telling me what I've already told them I want to hear and, and put it through that filter, you know, and see what, see what they say. Sure, yeah.

Yeah. And I think that really should be the first test. And if you get that write up back and it could be as informal as just, you know, a well put together email. Although I would suggest that the more work you see someone put into this write up, the better off things will be going forward because you'll know they're willing to work at it, right? Yes. And the faster they get it back to you is another good symbol, you know, or signal if they stayed up all night after that phone call or you know, worked until 1am so that email was waiting for you in your inbox when you got into work the next day. Well, that's, that's impressive, right?

Yep.

That's impressive.

Yep.

And you'll scare a lot of people away with that. Hey, go ahead and write that up and do it. And, and they'll kind of be taken aback a little bit. But let's say you get that, you get that, write it back and you're like, okay, this is cool, then I think you should start working on this, on this working agreement. And I think there's a bunch of questions to be answered in that, you know, who would do what? Right. How's this going to work? What are the division of duties, you know, what are you going to do? What am I going to do? Who are we hiring? You know, how is that going to work? And as well, you know, how much time is each partner willing and able to be put into the business?

Time and money, I mean it, you know, those are the two questions you need to ask. What's the investment? Yep. And, and another question I will, I will throw in there because I've learned this one the hard way is ask people what they want to get out of the business. What's the point of this? You know, it's easy to assume, and we all know what happens, that everyone's goal is for the business to make money. That may not be the primary driving force. Why someone, you know that everyone's definition of success is a little bit different. And it's good to define what success is. That's all. You know, it doesn't, you don't, you don't have to get crazy, but define success and just make sure everybody's on the same page. Because success for some businesses is I need, you know, this needs to be a cash cow. It needs to like in, in, you know, in our case with deals on the web, it needs to pay for my car payment and, or my kids school. Right. Because I think deals on the web did both of those things at some point. Right. Like very early on it was like, well, as long as we can draw enough out of the business to do this, it's like, okay, great, no problem. Like that matches for what I'm in. We were both in very similar parts in our lives and thankfully I never had a kid in private school, but you know, it's still, I had other expenses, you know, like, yeah, things. And so it was like, okay, great. But other times success might be, oh, I don't want to take any cash out of the business. I want to build this thing up and sell it down the road and get the one big payoff down the road. And there's nothing wrong with either of those, but it's very wrong. If one of you wants one thing and the other wants another, because either of those is considered success by the outside world. Right. Big payoff at the end or cash cow throughout, that's successful. But if one of you needs the cash cow and the other one wants the big payoff at the end, you've got a problem. Big problem.

Absolutely.

Yep.

Yeah. And you, you got to work that stuff out. You've got to lay it out so each of you can adjust your expectations. Because that's what leads to success is when you know what's going to happen? And you kind of have an idea of what your, your partners or partners are thinking. And along the way, you know, you should also be discussing how is the ownership of the business going to be allocated. Right. Are we 50, 50 partners? Is there, am I putting up more? It's going to be 60, 40, or is it some. Or vice versa. And in I, what I often find is there's often one person that's kind of the operating partner. Right. And if, if that person is in the, in the business much more than the other one, the other partner, you know, is there going to be a salary allocated because of that time that it's going to take? You'd be amazed at people that I talked to. They're like, well, yeah, I can't really take anything out, but I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And I'm like, well, you're an employee, man. You know, you need to be getting paid for your time.

Yeah.

As while you, while you build the.

Business, you're not going to make it. Yeah. Otherwise it's not going to happen. That's right. Yeah. No, and, and these are all things. If you don't define these and you don't have this conversation, these can impact someone's perceived work ethic. I don't want to say that, you know, generally there's a work ethic that's at the core and you definitely want to suss that out via all these means. But in your example, if somebody is going to be, if it's required that one person or both people are devoting significant chunks of time to this, then that means they can't devote that time elsewhere. And so if they, if they aren't drawing the operating cash, like a salary for their personal lives that they need from that business, well, now their work ethic is going to be challenged because they're going to, even if they want to work on the business, if they need cash flow, they're going to need to do something else to make that cash flow happen. That's going to get their attention and now that's going to impact their work ethic. So I want to take a minute here and talk about our first sponsor, which is very important when you're starting a new business, and that is Linode L I N O D e dot com SBS is where you go to set up the server for your new business. This is super important. No matter what you're doing, I can't imagine that you're building a business that isn't going to need a server of some sort. You might need a web server for your website and to maybe manage your, you know, online e commerce engine and all of that. You might need a server internally to track whatever it is you're tracking with your finances or your inventory or your database, whatever it is. You might just need a server for a vpn. You might need email. You're going to be setting up a server and Linode knows how to get this done because they've built their cloud manager. So all you need to do is go to linode.com SBS you sign up and now you pick what kind of environment you want to set up on your server. Do you want a WordPress server? Do you want a database server? Do you want, you know, a mail server? Do you want a VPN server? And you just click that and within minutes it's configured and up and running and it's your server. You don't need to worry about knowing how to actually do all that stuff from, you know, a terminal command line interface. If you know how to do that, that's fine, but you don't have to. And this is one of the things that makes Linode awesome. Their servers are fast. They're all on native SSDs, they're on a 40 gig network and you can pick from any one of their 10 worldwide data centers and they're constantly growing. And as I said, you go to linode.com SBS what I the lead that I buried there is that by going to that link, not only can you sign up, but you'll automatically get a $20 credit added to your account to get started with. And chances are, as you get started, you can probably start with their lowest price server, which they call their nanode, at five bucks a month. So you got it. Your first four months of that one can be free if that's how you choose to apply your $20 credit. Linode.comsbs and our thanks to Linode for sponsoring the show and this episode. All right, so we've got.

Good. So a couple more things. Yeah, we're down to my last few little points on this kind of before you get started then I want to talk about what happens if things go to hell when you're already up and running. You know, last couple things is I think important to talk to how much money will be invested back into the business. You know, are you going to set a, you know, create a system here that is going to dump, you know, 80% of the money back in or do you have to pull it out right away. I mean, what's going to happen with that money? Talk about that, you know, and an important thing. How, how will you guys handle conflict resolution? What happens? You know, what do you do? Do you. Can you agree in your working agreement to seek outside help? You know, that kind of thing? And then, and what happens if someone wants to leave? Right. That's very important to talk about. And what you're. You have this working agreement that you're kind of going back and forth. It's. It's not, you know, a formal contract by any means, but it is the foundation for a more formal operating agreement that you can then pull from that. You know, hey, these are all the things we decided. And I think it's really important, you know, and it's one more level that you need to be ready. Because going through the working agreement like this can often scare away potential partners. And that's.

And it'll highlight work ethic. Yeah, you'll see. Even the process of building the working agreement will show you how dedicated this person can be to this project. Yeah, that's right. And that, you know, that's what, that's what you're trying to get at here is who is this person? You know, when you came to me about doing this show, that was venture number two. We already knew each other. There was no question about work ethic. We know each other's strengths, we know each other's weaknesses. I mean, it's fine, it's great. But you know, that first one, you got to suss each other out. And it does take a leap of faith. Like you're not going to be able to know everything, but you can avoid a lot of this stuff if you can. Just always bear in mind you're looking to get a sense of who is this person as a worker, you know, yes. You're both partners in the business. Let's say you're even partners. Doesn't matter. Right. But really what you're. You're looking at is you're both going to be working in this business. So as you said earlier, you know, is this a person that has discipline to get shit done? And if they can't get shit done, then none of the rest of it matters. If you're relying on them to get shit done, you know, if all they're doing is putting money in, okay, well, then suss out their finances and make sure that they can put the money in that they say they can put it. Yeah, that's easy. But.

And that's. And that's fine. If that is their defined role.

Correct.

If they come to you and say, look, I can invest, you know, X, but I have this other thing and there's no way I'm going to be able to, you know, be involved in this, this, or I can only advise or whatever. That's exactly what you want. You want to know that front so you can build, you know, a structure around that kind of framework that'll be successful totally.

And you know, as an aside, because I, I might or might not have been in a scenario like that where there was a company where, you know, and I mean, this happens a lot, it's not rare. Where there's one person that's the, the money person that's putting money in, there's other people that are earning their equity with sweat. Right. Make sure you put something in your operating agreement. I mean, it can be in your working agreement too, and probably should, but, but make sure you've got something in there in your operating agreement that defines what happens if someone wants to change their role. It's one thing if every partner is doing effectively the same thing. Now, I don't mean doing the same tasks, but you know, if you've got a business where everybody is working in the business, great, fine, that's, that's easy. If you've got a business where the partners are all just putting money in and you're hiring someone to run the business, great. The partners are all equal in that sense. But if you've got a blend, it's not rare that someone is going. One of the partners, one of the principals, I'll say is going to want to change. Either the money person is going to want to get involved when they were otherwise silent in terms of the daily operation or the other way around. Somebody that's in the daily operation says, you know, I'd rather shift to the money side. How do we do this? Define that up front because, man, that can avoid a lot of headaches. So there's my experiential aside.

We're talking about lots of things we've learned over many years and many partnerships. And the one thing I'll leave you with is setting things up. You don't want to kill a potential great idea or a good partnership with. You're not going to find a perfect partner. It's like looking for the perfect spouse or the perfect boyfriend, girlfriend, a perfectionist. You will be alone. So you know that that's just. Yeah. And that's the way it's going to work. But this will allow you to see Each of your strengths and weaknesses and talk it through. The key thing is communication, you know, and, and that, that work ethic. Are they disciplined? Are they putting in the time that, you know, in the, in the start here, are you able to have a good flow back and forth? That's terrific. I think that's great. So start there. I think you'll be successful. So speaking about communication, if you have a current partnership that's not going well and you're thinking this person does not have the discipline, is not productive, does not have the work ethic that I do. I think that communicating and talk is the first place to start when you're feeling this way. And I like to keep it casual because I'm not. I don't want to have a confrontation yet.

Right.

You know, you may have to. But in the beginning, casual things can, can open the whole thing up better and you get on the same side of the table. Right. Yeah.

You gotta leverage the honeymoon we talked about. That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I would, you know, and I've done this a couple times where I would suggest, hey, you know, hey, I'm feeling a little stressed. I, I take it on myself. I'm. I' kind of stressed, you know, about the way things are going or my workload is, is kind of scattered. So what I'd like to do is let's do an exercise. Let's. Let's both write down what our current duties are and how much time they take us each day. Now, you know, this is kind of for more operating partners in the business. If you have a finance person, that's, that's, that's different. But usually. Yeah, so. And, and the way I usually get to the. Because, because when you say that, that sometimes people get a little suspicious, especially if they've been slacking off.

Yeah, yeah. I like spidey sense goes up. But that's okay. That's what you're trying to. Out here.

Yeah, yeah, that's correct. You're trying to flush that out. So what I often I frame it as I say, you know, maybe it's time to bring on more staff. Or maybe it's time and I, and I push it. Maybe you need an assistant. You know, I don't. I'm not sure how much work you're doing. So maybe you need some help. Because then if they're slacker, they make. Well, yeah, that'd be great. I'd even have to do less. So that kind of a situation. I try to get the talk started that way.

I will offer one. One turn of phrase there. Instead of saying, maybe you need to get an assistant, say, maybe we need to get you an assistant. Don't. I like that. You know, don't assign any blame with that. Just offer the idea out to. To fold it into the ongoing conversation. That's right. Yep.

That's good. Yeah. That's great. And I think, you know, sitting down and writing down what you're each doing and what kind of time, I think you might be surprised. You know, they could be doing much more than you're aware of.

Absolutely. No, because there's a good. Know that before you get all upset.

Yeah, correct. Correct. So it may be that you look at this thing go, oh, wow, dude, this person's really busy. You know, they're. They're just as busy as I am, or maybe even busier, I don't know. Or not busy, but getting more done or have more. More respons. Ability is more productive. I hate that we're busy, so we'll scratch that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

And. Yeah. So the. And then on the flip side, they might be surprised because if they sit down and look at your list and be like, whoa, man, you know, you're this. I didn't know you were doing all these things because a lot of what's going on is taking place in your head.

Right, right.

You're thinking, damn it, that guy Dave didn't do this. He didn't do that. You know, whatever. But in reality, that guy Dave could be like, oh, well, you know, we. We went another direction here, so that task isn't on there anymore. Or what? I mean, there's all kinds of different ways.

There's all kinds of different things. That's right.

Yeah. You're trying to come together instead of keeping it in your head and just being pissed off and looking at the clock going, this person's not here, or they don't stay late or whatever it is, you know, that kind of thing. Keep it positive, you know, and. And turn the focus on your workload because that's. That's the only thing you can control. Right. You can't control what they do. It's just. It's not going to happen. So if you start the conversation, oh, I'm concerned with what I've got going. I want to be sure it's, you know, charting along with what our agreement is, this kind of stuff. It'll bring these things to the surface, and maybe you can resolve things there. You know, ideally, I think that will, you know, that's the best place to, especially if you have something good going or you have a good relationship and you're just trying to kind of tighten things up a bit. Yeah, they may have no idea. They may have no idea. Or you may have no idea that they're just loaded. Right. And getting all kinds of stuff done and getting off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So and then lastly on this, if you can't communicate, you know, some. I've had it before where, you know, I, I couldn't talk to somebody. They were so mad about something, you know, or they thought things were not going good and that they just disconnected and you don't even see them. I mean, I've had this happen and, and then the. Is when you're trying to communicate like via email and text. I mean it's the worst because there's no inflection, there's no personal engagement, there's no empathy on your face, there's no concern shown about the situation or care for the person.

Right.

That's what you get with that face to face communication. You can get some of it on the phone, but face to face is so much better.

Video conference is a good, you know, mitigator there. If you can't get in the same room quickly enough.

Yeah, yeah, yep. And so if you're stuck, I think then you really have to push to have a third party come in and help you. And it could be someone you each respect. Could be a business mentor that you've used. Maybe you're, you know, you've used the score organization or you have some advisor, a coach, somebody on your, your board of advisors that you can both agree on. Maybe it's your attorney. As long as you keep it casual, you know, the company's attorney. Try to keep it casual, Try to keep it positive as long as you can. Because if it gets into the negative and it gets more formal, I can tell you we could do an entire series of shows about how that is not a good place to go. If you can avoid it because it gets very expensive and it forces you to take your eye off the, of your business and your productivity can quickly go in the toilet. So try to keep it casual, try to keep it positive. Bring an outside person in and, and try to work, try to work through it. And if you can't work through it, try to work through a, a separation that you know is, is cordial and beneficial to everyone.

Well, and hopefully you can avoid that by, by, you know, sussing out that work ethic earlier in the process so that either you, you know, you kind of kill it off before it begins or early, early enough on that there is nothing worth fighting about. You know, I don't want to say that like, correct. You know, like you're gonna have put time and probably a little bit of money in depending on how it all is. But, you know, at some level it's like, well, you just cut bait and you move on. You, you find something else productive to do. But, but there are those times where it's like, oh, wait, we've, we've put a lot in here. There's something at stake. Now we gotta really kind of hash this out. That's never, that's never easy. So hopefully you can suss it out earlier in the process. And, and you know, people, I, I caution, I, I'm ever the optimist, especially when it comes to people. I, I really believe that.

Sure.

That folks can get things done. And, and you know, I, I often prove myself wrong in that, like, if somebody, if somebody is not performing, I always look, okay, how can I help you, you know, get this done and how can I coach you and get you there? And sometimes that works out. Most of the time though, when my gut tells me this person is not a, you know, a dedicated worker, there's not much you can do to change that. At least not in the time that, that most of us have to, to get that changed. But, but sometimes it's, you know, if you've got somebody that's actually a dedicated worker, but they're just distracted because of other factors, well, sometimes you can help sort of limit those distractions or compartmentalize the work in a way that, that allows them to be that dedicated worker. But, but you gotta fight, you gotta find dedicated workers. If they're not dedicated, then it's, it's just not gonna happen. And yeah, and like you said, I think that that first email when you, you know, somebody says, hey, I want to work together, and you ask them, great, you know, send me a note, put it together on a one sheet, you know, and if they choose to put it in an email, that's fine. But you know, put together what that's going to look like, the timing of how quickly that comes back to you, if at all is the first indicator, and then what the meat of it is is going to be your second indicator. Take a look at that and really think long and hard about those two leading indicators there, because chances are this is a person that wants to work with you, they're excited to work with you. How quickly did they turn this around. How eager? Like knowing that they're eager, how quickly did they turn it around? That that's going to inform you in a huge way.

I, I think, yeah, those are all really good signs. Yeah, yeah, it's great. And hey, one thing I want to bring up as we roll out here, another episode is we talked about podcasts. I was going to discuss one of my favorites each week. Last week I spaced on it. But this week I want to point you to American History Tellers. It's a great podcast if you're interested in how things work and what has happened. They did a great series on the water wars with LA and bringing out, Bringing the water out from Owens Valley. It's great to have in the background educate yourself. At the same time we'll put a link in the show notes those American History Tellers, you know. And the one thing that all these shows have in common is at the sometime during the show they ask you to leave them a five star review. So I'm going to remind you that here today is, that's one thing you could do to help us. And I was just looking. We have not had a review for 2020 yet. And I will challenge you that you're listening to this to be the first one to leave us a five star review up on the Apple podcast directory, you know, or wherever else you listen to this show. We would love to hear it. It really helps us. You can start at businessshow Co Reviews and as always, we appreciate your support.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Leave us a five star review if you have anything to say. Feedback at businessshow co. But the first thing we'd love is that 5 stars star review. So check it out. Business. Yeah, Business Show Co reviews for sure. All right, Shannon. Well, I think that's, that's as good as it's going to get for today. Hopefully this helped. I hope. You know, there's a lot of things we talk about here that have actionable stuff that you can do for your business right away. This is one of those things that you're going to, you're going to put in your, in your hopper there and, and when it comes up, you're going to, gonna know. Okay, I'm, I'm glad I've got this. That's, you know, that's kind of what we're thinking about here when we talk about this stuff.

So. Yeah, got it.

Anything else, man?

Good. No good stuff. I, like I said, I always learned the most. I'm working on a new possible partnership now. And this was a great joke. It's just reminding me all the stuff I have to do. Yeah. To make it work.

Rarely do our topics come from nowhere. There's always a little. The little, you know, nugget of inspiration. Inspiration. So. Yep. And if you have a nugget of inspiration that you want us to talk about, do it, please. Feedbackusinessshow.co. we'd love to hear from you.

And.

And we can take, you know, these little things and just expand on them in a way that helps us all. And that's what we're here to do. So thanks for listening, everybody. Keep living that charmed life. Thanks, Shannon.

Thank you, Dave.