Empowering Employees and Effective Customer Communication – Small Business Show Episode 88

The Small Business show, episode number 88 for Wednesday, October 12, 2016. Greetings, folks, and welcome to the Small Business show at businessshow Co. The show by, for and about small business owners. The people that are just out there making things happen every day here in Durham, New Hampshire, I believe. I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in Lafayette, California, I'm Shannon Jean. We're here talking about the unsung heroes that are often vilified and not often celebrated.

Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we're here to talk about it and celebrate it and solve problems, especially our own problems, which is a good place to get good feedback.

It is, yeah. You know, I've spent the last. Well, I don't even know where I am here, so, you know, I'm a drummer, Shannon. I've mentioned that before, and I occasionally do theater shows. And so the last. I did an entire show last week from tech week, including dress rehearsal, all the way through to the end of the run. It was a Wednesday through Sunday run. And then the best way to sort of decompress after doing that is to take my drums and move them to another theater where I start Tech Week for another show. But what's been interesting about this for me is I am not in charge of these things, but, you know, they're not my show. I'm a hired gun is really what it comes down to. And certainly with the show I did last week, very much so a hired gun. This one. This week, it, it. There's a little more leeway in terms of people having kind of a way to impact the show. But last week's show was like, you know, it was. It was on Broadway. It was called Bloody, Bloody Andrew Jackson. Politically timely for them to have put on, which was part of why they did it, of course, But. But, you know, it was at the University of New Hampshire. I was just hired to be the drummer, but I found it interesting, especially as we were getting there and getting set up on Monday for our first dress rehearsal. The director and I have worked together a couple of times and have developed a trust in one another, as happens. The music director and I have worked together many, many times. And so we're like an old married couple when we get together. And that's great.

Nice.

Yeah. But somebody came up and was asking questions, and I found myself. There was no one around to give them the answers that they needed at the time. And these were things they could have just decided and answered on their own. But people generally in that environment, especially these were college students, most of them. Right. I was one of the few non college students. The band was not college students, but the cast was all college students because this was at the university. And these people were asking, like, I wonder what I should do about that? And it was obvious that things just needed to keep moving. So I started giving answers. And then I stopped, actually. I turned to our guitar player and I said, all right, so here's what's gonna happen, though. These are innocuous little answers that I'm giving that just keep things rolling and aren't, you know, they're not. They might sound like executive decisions, but they really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. But the problem is, as soon as I get into this mode, I eventually am going to make a decision that someone else is gonna act on or I'm gonna act on that that's going to ruffle someone's feathers, because it's not really my place to make any of these decisions.

Right. Even though you. Common sense and you look at things.

Yes, but it's just like, I don't. To be fair, I don't necessarily see the big picture, and I certainly don't see the big picture the same way, say, the director does. Right.

Of course.

That's his job is to do that. And I haven't been working with this play for months and this cast for months. And there might be, like, common sense says you do it one way, but he's tried it that way with, you know, these people and knows, nope, you got to do it this other way. That's the right way to get it done. You know, experience trumps common sense.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And so. And they kind of. The guy kind of looked at me. He's like, well, you always seem to have the right answer. I'm like, no, no, no. Yeah, I always have an answer. And. And. And. And sure enough, I found myself in a scenario. It was like, oh, wait, whoa. I just got to back out here. And not like, I can't make that decision. People are like, what do you mean? Like, it's not my decision to make.

Yeah, yeah. But that's an important distinction to. Because, like, you say you're starting this road, and people start to look to you.

That's it.

For the answers. And it's good that you realize that.

Well, I don't always get it. Right. Yeah, yeah.

No. Well. And I think it brings up a good point, as small business owners, when you have employees, especially in that transition point, maybe where you're recently Starting and you've got your first employee or employees, and, you know, maybe you're in a small environment and you're. You're overhearing things all the time, and it's very easy to jump in with the answer. All the time.

All the time. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the ways that you have to grow your business is not to be the one providing all the answers. And even if the answer isn't exactly the way you would have presented it to a client or even a supplier, and sometimes you kind of inside have to go, oh, I wouldn't have said it that way. But you also need to be able to take a breath and say, well, did it really hurt things? Because it didn't get said my way.

My way. Yeah, there's a difference between my way and the right way.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Even though sometimes you may not think it, but there is.

Yeah, right. And you're right. What you said there was very, very astute. In order to grow your business, you need to not be the one providing all the answers.

That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise it's just you and people doing your grunt work. Yeah. That's essentially, I mean, you know, at best, you can leverage the fact that other people are doing your grunt work and possibly get more done than you would just on your own. But if you're making all the decisions, that is a limiting factor, you know.

Well, yeah, And I would argue that if you find yourself making all the decisions or. Well, let me take a step back. It's a common thing you hear from business owners is like, oh, you know, I have to be there in case of X, or they can't make these decisions, whatever. And I would argue that you're not. Maybe you're not hiring the right people, or you might have the right people that you haven't empowered to make those decisions. And it's a difficult thing. And I've been there at different stages of different companies where, you know, especially for me, it's on culture and the message you're trying to get across to the public of what type of company you are and what your values are. Those are very personal to me. Very personal things that you're trying to portray.

Yeah.

Over and over. And it's. There's this phrase, you know, singularity of purpose. Right. Well, especially in that area, that. That singular message, you know, what. What do we stand for? What are our values? It takes a long time to get your employees and your people on your team all talking on the same, you know, getting the same message across. Maybe not the same way, but getting it across. And you have to. I just had it this morning where I was sitting in my office and I could hear some guys talking about problem. And man, I was literally up out of my seat and I said, oh, you know what? They don't, they just don't need me to walk over there and make some other observation that they're certainly, they're more qualified than I am to solve the problem and they don't need somebody else going, walking over and stirring it up. So I think that you have to ask yourself if you find where you can't get out of the office or off the job site or whatever it.

Is.

You gotta look at either your people or how you're. You're treating them.

Yeah, yeah. No. So this is interesting about empowering people because it's one thing to tell someone that they are empowered either by giving them a managerial title or a title with some level of responsibility or telling them, look, this thing, this project is yours. Here's the results we need. You know, go and run it the way you want to run it. That's the beginning of empowering people. But the next part is the hardest part, certainly for me as a business owner, of staying the heck out of their way so that they can do those things. And when it gets really hard is when they have a question or they screw up. Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. And like we talked, I think it might have been last week. Yeah, Tim, Tim Cook's traits of an employee. And I was questioning on, wow, you know, what level of employee can you really apply all those to? Can you do it to the rank and file?

Right.

You know, folks that are just getting started is that upper management, you know, and I would say it's, it's, you know, if you have managers, you know, that are maybe more well trained, it's easier because you kind of set these results and they have to go and they can. If they can't hit the target, you know, they can kind of. Well, let me tell you what happened and this. Or we need to change the target or something. But I think again, for the rank and file, like I look at it, we hire lots of entry level technicians that we hope to train over time to just be awesome and to have no fear of making a mistake and especially, you know, by breaking an expensive piece of equipment. And, you know, the, the one of the best ways I know how to, to empower people and really follow it up where they feel like you have Their back is to drop a very expensive piece of equipment on their desk or in their tech bench and say, hey, take this apart.

Oh, wow.

And you know, so when you get, we're in the Apple space, you get the iPhone7 in the day of drop it on, you know, the guy you really want to show you trust him. Not the, not your tech that's been there for five years or whatever, they could do it, but a new, a new tech walk in or drop the iPad Pro on this thing and say take it apart, figure it out. And you know, they kind of look at you like, well what if I break it? Well, if you break it, you're going to learn. We'll learn from that. You know, and, and that does build trust. And I think you, I'm sure you know, you've got other examples of where you could do it with managers, but it is really important to, to do it and get out of the way.

And then it is hard get out of the way. That's the key, right? Is, yeah, yeah. Because you know, and like I said, when, when they have questions, especially in my business, a lot of, certainly on the advertising side, a lot of it is how to approach a customer about whatever the issue is. Right. You know, okay, could be, you know, do we want to try and convince them to, to you know, buy a three month contract instead of a, or should they be on this property instead of that property or you know, anything and maybe it's, there's a problem and we need to resolve it, you know, that kind of thing.

Right.

And my gut is always to say, all right, hey, I'll write what email I would write to them. And it's an awful thing.

I'm laughing as I've done the same thing. Right.

But, but that's like, like I, I, I'm a very situational thinker. Right. So it's like, all right, let me put myself into your shoes.

Yeah.

And tell you what I would do. And it's awful. It's the worst thing to do, the best thing I think, but I'm, I'm wide open on suggestions is to say, all right, let's role play it, treat me as the customer. You do what you think and then let's talk about that.

Yeah. And like we use slack, you know, in our, throughout our organization. We've talked about it here before, highly recommend it if you're, you know, for your teams and stuff. So I would, because we use email every day and I get that question all the time. Well, how, what do you think I should tell this person with this customer, this supplier, how would I respond? So what I do is I say, hey, go write the response in Slack and then I'll take a look at it and I'll add, I'll give you, you know, whatever. I'll add it, add some stuff or maybe do a little edit and look at it for grammar, you know, because that's always a good one. Everybody needs an editor, right? I need an editor more than anybody. Yeah. So you can, you can pass it off as you're not questioning their ability, but you say, oh, just put it in there and I'll edit it for grammar or whatever and spelling. And then you look at it and go, hopefully you only have to maybe tweak it a little bit and sometimes not at all. And if it's not at all, but you can definitely then drop in a few important things that you'd like them to add or. Oh, I would just suggest this that I think is you're just helping them do it. You're versus you doing it, and then having them hit the send button or something like that. And if you're, and again, if you're doing your, your job as a business owner or as a manager, basically, if, if you're having to rewrite it every single time, that's another, that's another issue.

Having to rewrite it is different than volunteering to write it in the first place, right? Yes, I mean, of course, you know, because having to rewrite it indicates, okay, we're at, at the very best, it's that we're both capable people, but we're seeing this differently. Right. And it could be worse than that.

Yeah, that's, that's right.

But there is a, you know, there is a not so bad scenario there, but where you would have to rewrite it or want to rewrite it, but, but you know, for me, just resisting the, the temptation to write my employees emails for them in those pressure situations, that's like that, that's the really hard one for me. And it's not. Yeah, it's. I mean, sure, part of it is that I'm a control freak and I don't really trust anybody when it comes down to it. I mean, I do, but, you know, it's easy not to trust people. I guess that's, that's the better way to say it.

Sure. But especially with communication. Yeah, it's, I think, you know, it's to put a finer point on it, trusting that they're going to get the message out the way you Want it to be done to either best serve the client, best serve your company, or maybe both.

Or maybe both. Right. Yeah, but, but you know, it's more that, like I said, I'm just a situational thinker. So it's like, all right, let me, let me just do it and then I'll tell you what my thoughts are. And, and, and, and that's. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Except everything.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it just, it's exactly the wrong way to approach it. Even though, even though intentions are. Because then they're sending my email. There's no way around that.

No, that's right. And so I say there's, I would also say there's another way to handle it too. And especially with. If in your business you're interacting a lot with email. And we are. And so we've tried all kinds of different things to ensure a standardized responses to the things that happen over and over. Now that's different maybe than a unique email. You need to write a customer. Sure. But we've tried shared mailboxes, this, that to have people monitoring. So we use Help Scout and I've talked about it again here and I'd love to have, I'll get somebody from them to come on the show. But what I've done with Help Scout is we have a whole library of templates that are very easy to modify if you need them. Sure. And it also doesn't give the sense of oh, you're sending out my email, but basically you are. I'm writing an email. Here's how when Y happens, you do X and you do the same things over. And then that way, like I have a new customer service person coming on on Monday and I'm going to be able to plug them right into Help Scout and say, oh well, here's the template library and there's a description in each template when to use it.

Right.

Use this when this happens. And then you kind of have to tweak it a little bit and change a couple little things. But for the most part I'm a real strong believer in that kind of things, templates because you can also add your personality. And I've always wanted my companies to have personality. When you call like Tech Restore, it's my voice that answers the auto attendant thing. But I tell you right there, you know, I hate these auto attended things and just hang out with me for a minute and I will get you to a human. I just want to find the right person to get you to, you know.

Yeah, I Like that. Yeah, yeah.

And we do the same with emails. We have little things, you know, thank you for being so awesome. I mean, all kinds of little tweaks that hopefully, you know, can break the ice, show you that we're a little different, you know, mellow out an upset customer, perhaps, and just little things. So with those templates, you can do that. Like, we always put, you know, the first thing, hey, you know, thanks for reaching out to us. We want to know that whatever problem you have, we're going to fix it. It's very simple. We are going to fix it right now. We may have to go some, you know, back and forth of what quote the best way to fix it may be, but we're going to have that discussion, but we are going to fix whatever problem you have. And that really takes the wind out of a, of arguments, you know, like that. So anyway, I, I, I would suggest that templates are a great way to do it if you have some kind of central repository to, to put them in. But that's just on a customer service level.

Yeah, well, I found we, we do, we don't have enough opportunities to, to reuse replies like that. I mean, I totally get why that would make sense, but what we do keep is a list of what we call magic phrases.

Oh, that's nice.

I like that the magic found, like, I said this and they understood what I was trying to say. So it's like, all right, yeah, codify that, let's go. And actually, that started for me three businesses ago. I think it started. Yeah. Back in the 90s at computer nerds, we, you know, because with air, we were dealing with customers all the time, but it was on site with customers, you know, so it was like, all right, you gotta, you know, you're gonna find yourself in this scenario where, you know, you need to convince the customer that you and the customer are working together against their computer. Right?

Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. Yeah, that's, that's awesome.

Yeah, but, but it's like, okay, you know, and it was, it, and this was, was not so much a magic phrase, but the magic concept. It's like you need to sit, you need to be on the same side of the desk with the customer.

Yeah.

You know, and sometimes that meant actually being on the same side of the, you know, like, physically moving yourself, but these kinds of things. And yeah, there were magic phrases that sort of spilled over into this one happened to be a magic concept. But sure, but those kinds of things that we found, like, aha, this is how we didn't get screwed out of three hours worth of labor, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. And, you know, and it wasn't. It wasn't like we were screwing the customer out of our time, and we spent the time, but the problem didn't get solved. And it was, okay, you need to demonstrate your value to the customer from moment one. And you're in that business. For us, our value was not in the solution. It was in our expertise. Yeah.

And that's, I think, a really important thing to have some kind of repository for those magic phrases, templates, I mean, all those kinds of things so that you can share the knowledge. So when someone comes back in from the field, in that case, if you're doing tech support stuff, they can go, oh, wow, you know, listen to this.

This is how this work.

And here's how I got this. You know, cross the divide with the customer or got on their site, whatever it is, and then using, you know, or saving that is kind of like, you know, the knowledge base or your brain trust, so to speak, for your company to where everybody can dip in, you know, win those.

And it's important we would just let new hires, we just say, all right, look, I mean, this was, you know, by today's standards, very low tech. But we just had a document that. Yeah. Like, sit down and read through this and then let's talk about it. But at least now you know the vernacular that we use here. And. And maybe this. And you're going to screw this up anyway, but, you know, at least you're only going to screw it up once, you know. Yeah.

Because I. And I think from a. Especially if you're in dealing with. Well, we say every. Every business is in the customer service business. Right. And so when you, especially with new people that maybe aren't as familiar with your culture and your values, oftentimes they feel like they're protecting the company. You know, whether it's, oh, no, I can't take that off the bill, or I know I'm not taking that back, or, you know, so they kind of feel, well, you know, hey, the company has to make money, do this kind of thing, so it comes down to empowering them to, you know, to do whatever, to do whatever it takes, you know, within reason. But certainly you want to empower them to say, hey, you know, it didn't sound like this worked out really well. Let me. Let me give you get your refund.

Yeah.

And that's for us, because we're kind of in the consumer.

Yeah. No, that makes total sense.

You know, that's one of the first things you can say. It's like, wow, it sounds like you're really upset about this. First, let me just let you know I'll be glad to give you a full refund when we're done with the conversation.

I would love to. And maybe now's the right time because it probably won't take that long. But, you know, refunds are one of those things. There are times when that is the best customer service move, but there are times where I feel like it's the worst, you know, and in the service business, I'm really curious to your thoughts on this, because we would have customers that would call up and say, you know, Timmy was here, he fixed my computer, and now it doesn't work anymore. And they'd be fuming mad. And certainly we could send Timmy out again for free or credit them or even just refund them in cash for, you know, what they paid for Timmy. But, you know, it was like, do we want to set the precedent that whatever you did to your computer after Timmy left is also Timmy's fault?

Well, that is. Okay. You just said there's a lot in that.

I know. And that's it. Right.

And a big part of it. So there's two parts. One is how you handle the refund or saying that. And I agree, you have to phrase it in such a way that you're not giving up responsibility for the problem if in fact, you caused the problem.

Right.

But sometimes. And so that leads us to the next thing is, you know, in the service business, that is. I think one of the biggest challenges of especially in the technical service business is where is okay, I have fixed this problem. I'm billing you for this. You're signing off that I fixed this problem, and now I'm leaving.

Yeah.

Because the follow up phone call of, hey, you guys billed me $300, my printer wouldn't work. You fixed it or whatever it is now it's not working again. I'm not paying anything. You better send somebody back out. Well, you know, of course, you want to be able to rely on that. Well, you know, hey, I'm looking at the work order and it was working when we left. You signed off. You know, I can send somebody else out, but there may be a charge. I mean, that's a rough one.

It sucks because I know how they feel.

Of course. Of course. And it's not like a plumber. If the plumber comes out and fixes the toilet or Your sink or whatever. And, you know, it seems to me it's so cut and dry, you know, it's either leaking or it's not, or, you know, but with tech support, it's so vague and you often find, well, okay, have you, you know, there's something else that happened. Oh, well, actually I downloaded XYZ to my computer.

Something else that happened. Right, right, right.

And so it is a. That is a big challenge where. And I think you make a good point, a refund is not enough and actually can make. Can really piss somebody off because they think you're just trying to throw your hands up and not be responsible. Absol. That's right.

Yeah. And that's where what we really learned was that whole thing of demonstrating your value while you're there. Not only does it get you paid if the problem is unsolvable, but it also kind of deals with that scenario where, yes, you did happen to solve the problem and now it's unsolved. So it's like, okay, and this is where we had one of our magic phrases. Okay, it sounds like there's more work to be done. Right.

I like that. Yeah.

We found one way of solving this problem and we stopped when we got there. But it sounds like there's more work that needs to be done to truly solve this for every scenario that you're going to run into. So, and in that scenario, what we would do is say we're going to waive the one hour minimum.

There you go.

Right. And we're going to come back out and just resume where we left off and, you know, and go from there. And it would always be the kind of thing if you could solve, if it was that scenario and you could solve it in, you know, 15, 20 minutes, no charge.

Yeah, sure.

Even though they were expecting to pay by the quarter hour, you know, whatever. But, but if it took three more hours because the problem was way deeper than you, you know, that it seemed. Well, that was three hours that would have needed to be spent already. You know, just.

Yeah, we would have been here for.

Six hours before we hit the pause button. And, and, and that was, that was another one of those. It was like, okay, we're the pause button on this problem and we're going to stop now, but we may need to resume. That was one of those magic phrases of pause.

And I would say that that's one of the reasons, twofold, that so many technical support type businesses have a hard time making money because they can't have that conversation and not give away all this, free labor. And two, it's one of the reasons why customer reviews of technical support businesses can be so brutal.

Oh, it's because all it takes is, yeah, it's one little issue.

They didn't fix the problem and you know, they're very upset or whatever. But there's always another side to the story. And you will just, you know, you can argue till you're blue in the face and you shouldn't do that in a public forum in a review anyway. Right, but, but it can be a no win situation, especially for particular customers. And we've talked about it here before, about firing certain customers, but also feeling confident enough to tell a certain customer, oh, you know what, we can't help you. We don't offer that service. And we do, especially in the tech side, we'll get lots of referrals. Well, so and so. Or I took it to the Apple Store and they said, I need this, this. And they don't what the heck they're talking about and yada, yada, yada, these guys, I'm gonna sue them and I'll be like, oh, I'm, you know, I tell our customer service people know this. The answer is, wow, it sounds like you didn't have a great experience. Unfortunately, we, we don't offer that service, you know, because that's just not a customer. You're not going to be able to make that customer happy and you're going to cause all kinds of grief within your organization and wasted time.

And wasted time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Spent time. And so you're better off really trying to pick and choose who you provide service to. You know, whether it's the one that's already upset when they're coming, you, and you know, it's not going to be a good experience or someone that, you know. To your point, Dave, we talk about valuing your expertise. If they don't value your expertise and they're grinding you on money from the get go, you. I would, yeah, I would suggest that, that that customer doesn't believe strongly enough in your expertise.

Well, and that can be, that can be your fault too. What we found, what I found and everyone, especially when you're doing on site work, right. Your bedside manner or computer side manner, everybody's going to have their own personality there because we're all different people. But what I found was I would just start talking about what I was doing aloud to the customer. Now sometimes the customers wouldn't be interested and they would leave. Okay, fine, I tried. But that talking served two great purposes. Number one. And it allowed me to explain every single thing that I was doing and why. So that, again, it's demonstrating the expertise. Like, okay, yeah, here's what I'm seeing. Here's the first thing I'm going to try, because I know that this sometimes solved this, or this is sometimes where the problem is. Right. And then what that does is it sets up a conversation and a foundation for when you get to that fork in the road where you're like, okay, we've tried a couple of things. We've done some digging. We're at the point where we can either reinstall windows or we can spend another half hour digging in the, you know, in the registry, trying to find whatever that one little thing is that's going to fix this, but the problem, you know, and at that point, I could explain to the customer, hey, look, you know, we could spend the half hour and be right back at this decision.

Yeah. Or.

And then it might be three hours. And once we get three hours in, well, you know, then we have a conversation about sunk costs. Right?

That's right. That's right.

You know, and. But being able to tell the customer this up front, and it takes experience to know where you might wind up and sort of paint these paths for them. They're involved, right. They're like, okay, no, you know, and, you know, I'm, you know, reminiscing back to the days of floppy drives where reinstalling windows took 17 drives in an hour and a half. So it was like, okay, this is a fixed cost. Right. We know that this is going to take an hour and a half's worth of time, whereas that, it could be 10 more minutes. We could be right next to the solution or not, you know, and that kind of thing. But keeping the customer engaged in the troubleshooting process, again, keeps you on the same side of the desk as them. Right.

Yeah, I like that.

And then. And then. And I figured I'd give a little detail here just because we seem to have gotten into the tech support thing. So. So, you know, I figured if somebody listening that's in this business, maybe this helps. And then, like I said that when, you know, if you do happen to solve the problem and then it comes back, they feel like you were on their side, you were doing what you needed to do for them, and, you know, hopefully they. They see a value in your expertise. So.

Yeah, and I like, you know, listening to that. I think that's a great idea. And also, as I'm sitting here looking at our show, Notes that. That pop up as we're typing and different things. That's a great thing to do, too, is to document what you're working on, where you're like, okay, arrived at one o' clock and I started this yada, yada, yada, and just little blurbs of what you're doing and as the time goes by that you can put on the work order, I think is a great way to. So they can look and say, oh, instead of going, well, that guy was here for two hours. He didn't do a darn thing where you could look. Oh, did this, research this, installed this, checking this. Those things are great. And it's really what you're communicating to the customer. It is. I think that's a good thing.

Yeah. Yeah, it's good stuff, man.

Yeah, it is. It's great.

It's fun. I miss doing some of that. Just because there is an art form to dealing with. To interacting with the customer. I don't want to say dealing with it makes it sound like a process or it's a burden. It's not. But you really have to approach it as a performance.

Yeah. And I think that every small business owner benefits from dipping their toe back into customer service from time to time to see what's going on. And there's different ways to do it. You can have automated emails set up that you reach out. This is what I do, that we reach out to customers. How'd everything go? What could we have done better? And most people don't respond, but you often get some real nuggets of good information and customer service. Like you said, it's an art form and you should be part of it. So you can continue to teach your employees and your team how to do it the way you want it done.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

That's excellent.

Good, Good stuff. Well, that pretty much brings us to the end of our time here together, Sharon.

That's it.

Yeah, man.

Well, we'll post this up on the website at businessshow Co. We're also going to post it to our Facebook Small business Group. And you can just go to businessshow Co Facebook. Is that right, Dave?

That's correct. That'll bring us through. Yep.

Yeah. Redirect you. There's some really good discussions up there. I know there's some other business owners that would love your. Your feedback and post any questions that you have.

Sweet. Thanks so much for listening, folks, and we'll see you next week. Keep working on that. Charmed life. That's what I'm take care.

Everybody you got.