Interview with David Dawson of Instant Print Shoppe

You know, Shannon, one of my favorite things about doing this podcast, but really any of the podcasts that I do is when we get to hear from you folks, our listeners. Right. Because that, like that, that's the, that's. That's really a big part of the fuel that keeps me going is knowing that, like, I mean, it's great. Look, we do business therapy. Even if we didn't record it, that would be valuable to me, like, just like venting about something and certainly getting your advice, Shannon, you know, and even being able to provide advice to you, like, that stuff, I learned from that. That's great. But knowing that, like, we're helping and making an impact on some of you out there is great. And we always mean it when we say, you know, feedbackusiness, show, co. Send in your stuff. Even, truly, even if it's just, hey, I really like this week's episode, you know, that kind of thing. We know you're busy, so we're not expecting everybody to do this all the time, but that kind of stuff, like, if you don't have anything to say, you actually do. You just don't realize it. You know, obviously, if you have a question or anything, we would love to hear from you. But. But even just if, you know, you got something out of the show, take a minute and just, you know, say, say thanks or, or if. If you feel like we missed something, let us know that, too. That's great. We. We thrive on this stuff.

Yeah.

And that's.

Everybody wants to have an impact on, you know, a positive impact on someone else.

Right.

Right.

It's just a. It's a part of the human condition. So it's great when we get feedback and great when we connect. And that's what we did today. Listeners send in an email a few weeks ago, brought up a good point, something that I said that, you know, he kind of said, hey, you should say that there's a. There's a better alternative to what you said. And I agreed with him. And so I asked David Dawson, who's in the printing business, to come on the show, and he's our guest today, so it's going to be something a little bit different. I'm really looking forward to it.

Yeah, same. Should we go?

Let's do it.

A lot of people I know store contacts in their phones and may think that business cards are irrelevant in these days, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Business cards fulfill a couple of good functions, one of which is just the quality and appearance of the business card. Says a lot about the business as much as what's printed on the card itself. If you've got a crooked or a lightweight card or there's not something it's not printed very nice, it says something very different than a nice, vibrant, glossy, heavyweight card. The other thing a business card does is it's a physical reminder of why you were talking to the person. I've certainly been to trade shows and you talk to a lot of different people and. But if I take your business card and throw it my pocket, I'm going to see that card later on that evening and say, oh, yeah, I was talking to Shannon about whatever. I was talking to Dave about such and such. And that's going to remind me to follow up with you, maybe check out your website, maybe place an order. Whereas if I'm just talking to you and throw your name into my phone, I may not even remember at the end of the day that I talk to you because I've seen so many people.

Well, it's good to be here, Shannon. How are you today, my friend?

I'm fantastic. Always happy to be here.

Always.

Yeah. One of the best parts of my week.

I agree. I look forward to this. No matter what's going on in my day, this show is the thing that's like, oh, great, I get to go do that now. It's not like I have to go do that now, which is a great thing. But we also get something special today, don't we?

Yeah, we have an awesome guest. So, you know, as regular listeners of the small business show know, I'm a little passionate about the customer experiencing or experience when they're unpackaging a box, you know, your product in the box, that kind of thing. We recently did a show all about packaging and how big of an impact it has on your customer's view of your business, your product, you know, your message to them. And I talked a lot about how many opportunities are to impress your customers with what you include in the box. Flyers, stickers, promotional material along with what's printed on the box and, you know, the design and creation of printed goods from business cards. The stickers that I talked about, all that stuff's really important. And I know you guys are including things like thank you cards to your customers now. It's just great. Today on the show, we're fortunate to have David Dawson with us. And Dave's the owner of the Instant Print Shop. So we're going to talk a lot about printed material along with his business, that kind of thing. And Dave, David, thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate it.

Well, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, so it's great. So I want to start like we always do, at the start. So I believe that the, your business is a multi generational business. Can you tell us about that if that's the case, and how you, how the business got started, when you got involved and eventually it looks like, you know, took over, that kind of thing?

Absolutely. Yes, it is a multi generational business. You're right. My dad's always been a great entrepreneur. He's owned a variety of businesses over the years. Somewhere in the mid to late 70s, we were on a family vacation down to Florida. And while mom was teaching my brother and I how to dive in the motel pool, dad walked across the street. He'd seen a print shop that was advertising same day printing in the window. They used a process called instant printing, which used paper plates instead of the traditional metal plates. Dad had worked with different print shops in the past, and he knew that even simple print jobs often took several weeks. He recognized the potential of instant printing in our hometown. So even though he had no experience at all in printing, he bought some used equipment and opened up the instant print shop in 1978 in southern Ontario. This is back, of course, before photocopiers and color printers. So getting printing at the same day was not a usual occurrence.

Yeah, no, that's great. And was the plan always for you to get involved as, you know, you know, you got older, went to university and was it just. Was your dad always kind of, you know, I mean, how did that, how did that transition work?

Well, I'm sure he probably had that in his mind. I don't know that it was specifically all along, but I, you know, had the math and business knowledge just going, you know, going along. I figured I would probably do something in business. So when I graduated from university and this was in 1993, an opportunity did come up to join the business. So I did. I started at one of our locations. We had two at the time, started learning the business, and we weren't really working on a succession plan at that time. But within a few years, dad was starting to think about what would happen next. So that's when we sort of started to, you know, I got more involved in the, the operational and plan to take it over at some point.

So it wasn't, it wasn't always the plan for, you know, for you to just be the next one in line. It happened. At least your, your Entrance into the business happened sort of organically and then from there. Well, you should take it next. Well, he's right here and also he's in the family. Is that that basically what it went like? Yeah.

Once I did join after university, that probably was more the plan that I would take it over eventually.

Y.

Before that, I don't know that was necessarily at the front of my mind. But like a lot of kids in high school, I didn't really know what I was going to end up doing, so.

Right. Yeah. I still don't know what I'm going to end up doing.

So how, you know, we don't get the opportunity to have a lot of multi generational small business owners on the show. So were there pitfalls or, you know, things that you had to kind of really work through as you made this transition? I would think for myself, you know, if I was working with, you know, a parent and I could just imagine how that process would work, especially if you had other siblings involved or, you know, how you manage employees, you know.

That kind of thing. Yeah, sure. I mean, as far as the family relationships go, it was fairly smooth. I know I get along well with my dad. He's very wise. He's taught me a lot. He's been a great mentor. I really like working with him. So it was not anything to that, if. To that effect where it was, you know, there weren't those tangents. I mean, there's always, you know, problems come up and you know, when you're a family and working together, that's. You can't always just sort of leave the problems at work because they sometimes follow you home.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right, right.

But that. Those are few and far between. As I said, I really enjoyed working with him and he was. Was great. You know, I probably, you know, had a few fears when he really started to purposefully turn things over to me and step away a little bit. Because there were certain things that he just always did and I was always happy to let him do them. Some of those big picture things like, you know, what's the. What direction are we going to take in the future? What new equipment should we buy? And he would try to include me. But I started to think, well, when he's. When he's fully gone, am I going to be able to do that? So that was a bit of a fear and a challenge for me.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I never really thought of it that way. I mean, I, you know, as a. As a business owner that has not taken over a business from someone, but has created everything that I've run. I have the fears of, you know, can I do this right? I'm not trained. I'm not equipped. How do I figure this out? And so there's that pressure, which is both normal and, And. And exactly what you went through. Plus there's the pressure of, am I going to let my family down because they've done this now, you know, my dad's done this. Am I going to be able to. Can kind of do it as well or better? That's. Yeah. Huh.

Right. And it's sort of the same when. When somebody else is doing something, you don't have the motivation to try to do it yourself because someone's already doing it.

Why bother, Right? Yep.

Or learning how to do it. But I know that there came a point when I sort of had the realization that, okay, one day he's not going to be here all day, every day, and I'm gonna have to do these things, so I have to start figuring that out. So that's great.

Every small business owner like that. Well, I guess I better start figuring this out. Like, that's, that's the. That's the thing that runs through our minds at those pivotal moments. Right. Like, that's often the beginning of a very. Like, you look back on those moments, like, wow, how did this start? And it was like, well, I guess I said to myself, under my breath, I guess I got to figure this out.

Yeah. And was there a kind of a length of time, you know, that went by or some significant event that happened to where you really felt ownership? Like, okay, I'm. I'm the owner now. I mean, or it was just kind of this natural progression. And the day your, you know, your dad didn't come in anymore, that. That happened. How did that work?

Yeah, well, a couple years ago, he sort of fully stepped away. So then it's like, okay, it's me. It's. You know, I'm. I'm the one here. He certainly is still around and willing to help, and he's very good if I want to ask him advice, but he doesn't come in on a daily bas anymore. Fortunately, a number of years ago, I started to, I guess, just started learn things. It wasn't even something necessarily intentional, but whether through podcasts like this or a few other ones that I listen to, books, articles, I've just happened to pick up some stuff that's been relevant, you know, in our industry, computers and equipment, and, you know, learning more about what's available and what Other people use, talk to other print shop owners. That's been valuable as well. And just as I learn more stuff, it wasn't really an intentional thing, but the more you learn, the more confident you become and the more actually, I enjoy the business. It's amazing. Just for me, the more I learn just gets me energized. And, you know, I'll listen to a podcast such as this one on the way into work or a few other ones, business type ones. By the time I get to work, I'm just, you know, ready to go. When I'm inspired by something I heard on the way in and learn something about running a business that's useful.

Yeah, that comment, you know, the more you learned, the more confident you got. I think that's really powerful. And all of us are like that, you know, to. Back to where you say, I have to figure this out, you know, there is no alternative. So, you know, learning more all the time, that's, that's, it's great advice.

Hey, Shannon, let's take a quick break here, guys. And I want to talk about our two sponsors. All right, our first sponsor for today is Zapier. That's Z A P I E R. And you'll go to zapier.comsmallbusiness to get your free 14 day trial of this service that I have been using for years here. And it's one of those things that it's so good you can forget about it because what Zapier does is it makes it super easy to automate your work. You know, there's all those different online services that you have that do different things. Wouldn't it be great to be able to link them all together? Like, for example, I want to take a article that I have and publish it somewhere, like on social media or something. Boom. Zapier can be set to automatically grab those and do that without me having to think about or do anything other than set it up and tell it to go. I have a WooCommerce engine that I use for one of my businesses and I use Zapier to grab the data from WooCommerce and populate a spreadsheet in Google sheets from. Right. So this is tying together these things that don't have ways to be tied together. Zapier is the glue that makes me happier. Right. That's how I think about it. And when they came through as a sponsor, I realized how much I rely on it and how much I had forgotten about how much I rely on it. Because like I said, once you get it Set up. It is good to go. It's so easy, it's so reliable, it just works. Zapier supports more than 1500 of those business applications out there. So your possibilities of connecting and sort of, you know, wiring things up, but it's very easy. Don't take that the wrong way. They're endless, right? There's more than four and a half million people who are saving an average of 40 hours a month by using Zapier. And now you can join us. So through November you can try Zapier free by going to our special link, which as I said, is zapier.comsmallbusiness that's Z A P P-E-R.com small business for your 14 day free trial. Zapier.com small business our thanks to Zapier for sponsoring this episode. Our next sponsor is linode@linode.com SBS because you're going to need a server for your business, right? And you want it to be easy, you want it to be reliable and you want it to be fast. You also want it to be priced inexpensively. Guess what? Linode can deliver on all of those fronts. And they can even give you some credit to get started. I know, it's crazy. So fast, right? Everything at Linode, even their least expensive server, is all on native SSD storage on their 40 gigabit network. So super fast because the drive is the thing that slows things down and easy. Well, if you like digging into the command line, Linode will happily let you do that. But you don't have to because of their new cloud manager where you can just go in and say I need a WordPress site. And you just click a couple of buttons and answer a couple of questions like what do you want the site called and what do you want your password to be? And it sets it all up for you. You don't need to know about Linux and Apache and MySQL and PHP and any of those things that I really get excited about but aren't necessarily fun for everyone, right? And inexpensive. Well, their lowest cost node is their nanode for just five bucks a month. This is a good thing. You want this and you can go set one up using the $20 credit that you get for being a small business show listener. Go to linode.com SBS and make sure you use promo code SBS2019 for your $20 credit. That'll be listed on our show notes at businessshow.co. it's here in the episode. You can just rewind and listen to it. As many times as you want. Doesn't cost you anything. You can get an email from us that has it, whatever you like. Just make sure linode.com SBS use promo code SBS2019 for your $20 credit. And our thanks to Linode for sponsoring this episode. All right, Shannon, back to you.

Awesome. So the way we got connected here with David was, you know, he sent an email from about a recent show where I was recommending, you know, sourcing something online, stickers, you know, printing material. And Dave pointed out, hey, you know, look to your local small business, you know, versus finding a nationwide company online. First off, you're totally correct and I definitely recommend that. And it also brings up a good question, you know, what techniques have you and your team come up with to deal with that reflex of, oh, just jump online and, you know, there's tons of, you know, low priced pitches for printing and that kind of stuff. How do you guys get around that?

Yeah, that's definitely a challenge that we deal with every day here. I think it comes down to what the difference is between price and value. And we need to consistently add value to our relationships with our customers. I know you were talking about adding value to relationships on a recent episode. That certainly ties in here. So for us, one of the ways we can do that is through the personal human interaction. Technology, automation can do some amazing things, but sometimes it's no replacement for people. Printing by nature can be pretty complex and having someone beside you can be invaluable. For instance, we can take an idea that may only reside in your head or a few scribbles on a napkin. We can turn that into something beautiful. We also really care about our customers and genuinely want to help them. When you're working with a small local business, I think you might often find more of that, that just caring about the customer and having someone who cares about you and your business, keeping a close eye on your job makes all the difference. There's been lots of times when we've had a customer bring in their own design for us to print and we'll give them a call before we start printing it because somebody on our staff noticed a typo or an image wasn't quite high quality. Sure, they'll really appreciate that. And often it saves having to have the job reprinted. And even a local printer, for instance, I know printing. So that's why where I come from, it goes for other industries. I'm sure we can often find ways to save the customer hundreds of dollars off the cost. Since we're doing your job individually. We're not just trying to fit it into our, our template or our, our way of doing things. We can often find an out of the box solution that sometimes gives a lot more economical results.

Makes sense. So it's that, that personal interaction, that customer service that, you know.

Exactly.

Connecting with your community. Right, right. And yeah, no, that totally makes sense. So, you know, we love problem solving here. We talk about it all the time. What's the most challenging problem that, you know, you face as a small business owner? And, and what steps are you taking to, to solve that problem?

Well, it's a good, good question. I think one of the challenges can be keeping that focus on the customer and what they want. Sometimes it can be easy to kind of default what's convenient for us, what works best for us. But one of our ultimate goals really is to make things more convenient for the customer. One way that we're doing that right now is by we're updating our, the software that sort of runs our shop, that does all of our pricing and our production workflow, our billing and such. The implementation has had some challenges as software implementation always does, but I'm convinced that when it's all done, it's really going to improve our turnaround time, make jobs easier to track, make things more convenient for the customer for their billing. It's really just going to make things better for our, for our customers. And keeping those goals in mind when you're having the server issue with the new software or whatever really makes it a lot easier to.

And do you have an outside company helping you implement that kind of thing or you have in house people that are doing it or how's that work?

The company that we're using has very good support and they're very willing to work with us. So I'm. The implementing is just done by myself. So I'm implementing it, but they're right there. I've had numerous phone calls and screen shares with them to get problems started or solved. And they're right now working on an issue that they haven't seen before, but I seem to be having. So they're trying to fix it in their own labs there for us. They've been really good.

That's great. And so, you know, everything seems to be, you know, oh, everything's online, on the web, digital, but you know, there's still a lot of power in this printed material. I talk about it all the time. What do you think the most effective piece of printed material is that that small business owners should be using oh.

That'S a good question, too. I'm kind of torn between two answers. Off the top of my head, I would say either a business card or a postcard. A lot of people I know store contacts in their phones and may think that business cards are irrelevant in these days, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Business cards fulfill a couple of good functions, one of which is just the quality and appearance of the business card says a lot about the business as much as what's printed on the card itself. If you've got a crooked or a lightweight card or something, it's not printed very nice. It says something very different than a nice, vibrant, glossy, heavyweight card. The other thing a business card does is it's a physical reminder of why you were talking to the person. I've certainly been to trade shows and you talk to a lot of different people and. But if I take your business card and throw it in my pocket, I'm going to see that card later on that evening and say, oh, yeah, I was talking to Shannon about whatever. I was talking to Dave about such and such. And that's going to remind me to follow up with you, maybe check out your website, maybe place an order. Whereas if I'm just talking to you and throw your name into my phone, I may not even remember at the end of the day that I talked to you because I've seen so many people.

Yeah, that makes sense. So are all of your customer interactions in person or like if me here in New Haven? If you're in Canada somewhere. Right. If memory serves.

Yeah, Ontario.

Ontario. Right. So we're not that far away in the grand scheme of things, but we're far too far away for me to, you know, in New Hampshire to drive up and, and come see you to get my business cards made. Do you do any sort of online distance clients or is. Are you really truly focused just on your local community and. And that's how your business model is, is sort of targeted right now?

Yeah, we do tend to do mostly local and regional, regional work. We've done a few things a little further beyond, but most of our stuff is pretty local.

Got it. Well, so there's a potential, you know, pivot expansion opportunity is. But also a challenge is, you know, like, you have, I mean, you have this great service and this great business and you know how to serve customers. And now you could you theoretically expand to other customer bases beyond that, which is local, but the challenge is how do you remain focused and truly serving your customers when you don't get that personal interaction. So it's, you know. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's not the right answer, but yeah, just. Yeah, it's always interesting to think about.

Yeah, it is, sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you've been in this business for a long time and I get it, you know, with stuff that I've been doing for a long time. You know, starting your day, how do you keep things fresh, you know, to motivate yourself, motivate your employees, you know, new things? I mean, how does that work for you? What do you, what do you, what tools do you use to keep yourself going?

I think I'm going to go back to that learning thing. For me, just learning. Whether it's reading a trade magazine, finding out what's new in the industry, listening to a podcast or a video about business type things, being encouraged, energized that way. I've also connected with a bunch of different print shop owners around North America. So you can sort of see what they're doing. Often they'll have somebody else will have a great idea and think, oh, I could do that, I could implement that, I could offer that service. So, yeah, just learning and networking with other people in your industry are great ways to keep things fresh and keep the motivation up.

No, that sounds great. Yeah, that's excellent advice. And kind of a similar thing. We talk about change a lot on the show. Has your business at times when you kind of had to change things a abruptly or just change things to adapt? And did you have any challenges or tips on how you got your team on board to handle that change?

Sure, sure. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of change, which makes it challenging.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Well, we're humans, right? Like change, resistance is part of our makeup.

Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, I know that we are in a changing industry and if we don't adapt, we'll be left behind. We started out by being able to produce things that the average person couldn't do themselves. You know, now everybody's got access to a photocopier and a color printer. So the idea of offering printing while you wait isn't as unique and it's not something that people can't do themselves. So we've had to continually branch out into other products that you couldn't easily produce yourself. Things like large posters. We can do some 2, 3, 4 foot type posters, promotional swag, giveaway materials. Those are very popular, but they're things that you're not necessarily going to make yourself back at the office.

Sure.

Makes sense. Yeah. And Then as far as, you know, adapting to, like I said, like I said, people, we're in an industry or people can do the things that we used to do for them. So we also just remind customers of the value of their time. Sure, you can go back to the office and you can spend an hour trying to design your business card or a brochure maybe you might spend some time on your office photocopier making copies. But you've got better things to do with your time than that. You can bill yourself out at your hourly rate of whatever it is, $100 or something an hour. Let us do the work for you that instead of you struggling in front of a computer trying to design your brochure, let's let us do it for you. Won't cost you nearly as much and you can spend your time doing something more productive.

That makes sense. One of the things I noticed in our email back and forth is you have kind of a side hustle thing going on at the same time. And it sounds familiar because I always do as well. Even though I may have one business that's really taken a lot of my time, I always enjoy having other stuff to do. Of course, I always enjoy the additional revenue that, you know, we talk about the revenue stream a lot. Have you found that, that, you know, having additional things to do keeps you, you know, kind of fresh as well and, and adds to your, to your day?

Well, absolutely. The thing you're, you're talking about is on my, on the side, sometimes I'll, I'll actually drive a, drive a truck for some friends and for me, that is just totally different than being in the office.

Sure.

I'm not in front of a computer. There's no, no phones, no, no emails that I need to respond to. And it is just completely energizing. It's totally different. I'm, you know, working outside and that sort of thing. And I enjoy it. I enjoy what I do every day. But it's nice to have something else out, you know, outside of the office that, yeah. That I enjoy. Can kind of refresh. Refresh you and just give you a good change from the day to day thing.

Yeah, that's great. I'm still looking for somebody to pay me to fish and. Because I enjoy that so much. But yeah, I haven't found that person yet.

You have to sell your fish, Shannon.

No, I don't want, I want to just be like, you know, just get out there. Here, I'll take you down the river and show you what you're Missing?

Yeah, you'd be a fishing girl. That's not a bad thing. You'd make a good fishing guide, I think.

There we go.

Wait a minute. Bring a microphone. Bring a microphone with you. Put headsets on everybody and record the fishing guide podcast while.

There we go. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, I'm going this weekend, so. Yeah, that'd be good. All right. So talking about, you know, all change and everything else, we always talk about mistakes all the time because, you know, we learn so much from them. I've made so many of them. What would you say your best mistake you've made? You know, running the print shop that has really taught you the most.

Oh, sure, yeah. I think for me, I can get into the trap sometimes of putting more emphasis on price than value when I'm working with suppliers. For instance, sometimes I might pass by one of our regular vendors because I found somebody else, a new discount supplier that can save me a few bucks. But the regular vendors are ones that I know and that I can trust, and inevitably this new discount one won't deliver it on time or I'll have a problem after the sale and I won't be able to speak to a live person to get it resolved. So often the cheap price comes at the sacrifice of service, so sometimes it's worth sticking with the trusted vendors. In fact, it kind of led me to develop what I call the 10 to 15 rule of supplier relations, which basically says that if I have a good relationship with the trusted supplier, it's probably worth paying up to 10% more for the same product. And even if their products are prices are 15% more than the discount competitor might be, some suppliers are just so awesome and reliable, it is worth it.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like that. I like that rule. It totally makes sense. It's 10 to 15 rule. So, along the same lines, since you've been in business for, you know, a long time, if you had, you know, one piece of advice that you could give a small business owner that's just getting started, what would that be?

Definitely learning. I think I've touched on it a couple of times, but find the best way for you to learn things and just do it. Whether it's reading, maybe it's watching some online videos, listening to an audiobook or podcasts, even taking, you know, a course in a classroom the traditional way. Just don't stop learning. It'll not only help you move your business forward, but. But it'll give you the energy and motivation to keep at it every day.

Yeah, that's great advice. That's really great. So, yeah, I mean, some really great tips here today. You know, I think the overall thing is that, that embracing learning new things because it seems to have helped you with the transition, you know, to taking ownership of the business in this multi generational scenario, to gaining confidence and, you know, just getting more comfortable and keeping fresh. So that I think that's really a great. Some great advice.

Excellent.

That's awesome. So, you know, thank you for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. It's great to just get such a wide variance of business owners on the show and that's what we're always looking for. What's the best way for people to learn more about the Instant Print Shop and to connect with you?

Absolutely. You can probably go to our website, which is www.instantprintshop CA. I'll just note shop is spelled S H O P P E and we're in Canada, so it is.canot.com or they can reach out to me by email at info@instantprintshop CA. I just want to say thanks to you guys for not only for having me on, but just for doing this podcast. You guys do a great job. I know there's tons of small business owners just that look forward to hearing what you have to say each week and the guests you have and just so just thanks for doing that.

Oh, we love it.

I mean, thanks for saying that, man.

Yeah, we really appreciate it. I always say that I, I really started this show to, to your point. Connecting, learning, it's what really drives me and I love, you know, meeting all these new business owners. You can also connect with with David on LinkedIn and we'll put the for sure link in our show notes. And uh, again, we really appreciate you coming on and uh, we look forward to checking in with you, uh, down the road to see how everything's going.

That sounds great. Thanks, guys.

You bet.

Well, that was a blast, man.

That was great.

Yeah, like, that was like listener feedback on rails. I loved it.

Yeah, that's right. I really respect the fact that, you know, not only gave us some good feedback in an email when I said, hey, you should come on the show and we'll talk about this. And he accepted. So it was a nice change. And, you know, not everybody's comfortable, you know, talking in front of thousands of thousands of people. And so David did a great job and I really appreciate him coming on again.

Yeah, thanks, David. And again, if, you know, we can't promise that we're going to invite everybody on the show, of course, but be, don't be surprised if we do. But, but feel free. Also, don't let that scare you. If you're not someone that wants to be on the show, still send us, you know, feedback. To feedbackusiness show co you can always say, no thank you. And we're okay with that. Like that's. We.

That's right. Look or read your question or, you know, that kind of thing.

And we've gotten no thank yous from people at the highest levels of business. So, you know, you'd be in very good company telling us, shove off, guys, I'm too busy for you.

But thankfully, yeah, no, it's great. And, and I, what I love about it is, you know, you have all different kinds of business owners on the, on these shows and just that, that diverse, you know, feedback that you get. The goal here, what we're trying to do is help everyone succeed, lift everybody up, including ourselves. And I think we did that today.

I think so too. Yeah. I'm stoked. That was fun, man.

Too. Yeah. Let's hear from you Feedbackus show co. And we'd love to have you review at BusinessShow Co Review. Let us know what you think.

Please do. And thanks to our sponsors, of course, zapier@zapier.com small business lino.com SBS you get that 20 credit and thanks to all of you, keep living that charmed life. We'll see you next time.