Interview with Gilbert Gautereaux of HotelsVillasDirect.com – Small Business Show 210

The Small business show episode 210 for Wednesday, February 13, 2019. Greetings, folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, the show that is by, for and about small business. Sponsors for this episode include abbyconnect.com SBA and textexpander.com podcast. We'll talk more about those in a minute. Here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave.

Hamilton and out on the west coast, I'm Shannon Jean. How are you, Dave?

I'm good, man. How are you?

Pretty good. Good, good. We're doing well out here and I promised I wouldn't talk about the weather, so I'm going to skip that old man conversation. We're going to get right into it. You know, we talk about travel all the time on the show and we've had done some episodes on using your points from your credit card and how, you know, travel and everything is part of the whole Charmed life concept that we, that we talk about frequently as a small business owner. So today, you know, we get a chance to talk with someone who's been on the other side of the travel business, you know, running travel and lifestyle businesses for a long time. Gilbert Guterow has started, built and he's managed a number of travel and lifestyle businesses including JustLux.com and his latest venture, HotelsVillasDirect.com thank you for joining us today, Gilbert. Really happy to have you.

You're welcome, Shannon. Nice to be here.

Yeah, that's cool. So I have a ton of questions. I'm a question guy. So let's start. How did you get into this travel and lifestyle business? I know you've been doing it for a while.

Well, it's my second career, so my first career, I spent about 20 years in the IT industry working in senior management, in marketing roles. And then in 2004, my brother founded a site called JustLux.com, which is a luxury lifestyle and travel publication which grew to reach about 1.5 million visitors. In 2007, I left the IT industry and I went to join him and I used some of what I've learned from a technology platform standpoint and the IT side of things. And so I joined Just Lux as president in 2007. In 2010, Rob and I, my brother, we co founded a company called the RGM alliance, which was a digital travel and lifestyle network. And we worked with about 325 premium publishers and we reached about 90 million visitors a month that particular network. And so we did that for two years and then we ended up selling that business, the RGM alliance business, and we sold it to a company and then we rebranded the company called the RGM Group. In the RGM Group, we ended up being the exclusive media representation firm for OpenTable.com, the largest restaurant reservation platform. And so that was in 2012. And so then I left just Lux at that time and I went over to the new business. I first started as the COO of the new business, and then I ended up as the CRO. During the tenure there, my team and I, we sold probably over a million dollars worth of digital advertising campaigns to premier hospitality groups, spirit brands, entertainment brands across the globe. In addition, when working with those brands digitally on selling advertising on OpenTable, we also probably activated over 1000 different restaurants for our advertising campaigns where we would first Spirit brand, we would do a digital campaign in targeting restaurants, and we would try to drive visitation to the Spirit brand partner restaurants, as well as try to drive consumption of the brand's product at those particular restaurants. And so over the time, we developed a lot of technology that was useful in the hospitality industry. And so then in2018, I got back together with Rob and we, we formed Hotels Villas Direct.

That's cool. That's a lot of stuff.

Yeah. For a second career, that's pretty good. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm 100. I'm 110, by the way.

Yeah, exactly.

Just so listeners know, Rob Goodreau was our guest almost three years ago on this show, episode 50. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes. It has. Yeah, exactly. Actually, you know what, it was over three years ago. It was end of January 2016. Yeah.

Wow.

So sounds like we got to have him back on here.

I know, I know.

So, yeah. Okay, so it's an impressive, you know, setup here. Let me just ask you one question because I, you know, never having worked like in the corporate world and, you know, kind of thing, what do you like better? I mean, do the pros outweigh the cons? When you're out on your own, building your own platform and trying to get your own business off the ground, or versus working for a larger entity, what's your preference?

My preference is definitely working on my own and my own business. But, you know, it has a lot of challenges, you know, in the corporate world, I work 12 hour days. When you have your own business, it's 24 hour days, seven days a week. You know, you're always thinking about it. Yeah, I'm trying to decide what's the best way to write notes in the middle of the night. When I wake up with an idea on the new business, do I take a note on my iPhone, Do I write it on a pad paper? But I'm constantly thinking, so what is.

The answer for that? Because that's a helpful thing for small business owners.

Yeah, the answer, what I do is I say, hey, Siri, send an email. And I send myself an email in the subject. So I get it in the morning. So probably send myself emails at three a night.

Okay, so we, We. We told you all the words not to say. Now I know that I need to also add the Hey, s lady and Amazon a lady and all of that. So we apologize to our listeners here, but there you go.

Everybody in the car.

Yeah. So I asked my device to send an email reminder to me, and it works well for if I'm. If I'm driving. Yeah. Or if I'm sleeping. So that's typically what I'm doing.

I like it.

That's smart. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

You make, you make a good point, you know, where It's. It's really a 247 thing. And you become just embedded in this. This whole process, and I love that. And then also sometimes, you know, it can get a little rough when you can't step away from it.

Well, absolutely. And then as a small business owner, now you're. Now you're. Now you have to make payroll. That's different when you're working for a corporation. And then it's what I like. It's just a faster pace of business and decision making. You know, I worked for General Electric for six years, and so, as you can imagine, there was a slow pace of making decisions. And as a business owner, you can make these decisions right away. So I enjoy that part of it as well is just the speed of how everything. How fast everything goes.

Yeah, that's a really. That's a good point.

Yeah, that's a great point. That was my frustration with corporate America, too, was most definitely the sluggishness of waiting for something to happen when you knew you could just do it. Let's just do it.

Oh, yeah. And especially in my background, I sold to the federal government. That was my customer base. And so then I dealt with all the legal and corporate compliance of dealing with the federal government as well.

So, yeah.

Yeah, that's like, in the mud. Okay, so let's talk about hotels, Villas Direct. And what was the concept behind this new business that you're starting up? And what does what do you guys offer to customers?

Well, so when Rob and I got back together, while we got back together, we saw a gap in the Book Direct and the best rate guarantee space of the hospitality industry. So you see it all the time. You see choice hotels with bada book, bada boom, book Direct. And you see the hilt in the Marriott. And so what we saw over the last three years is we saw millions of hundreds of millions of dollars being poured into the Book Direct space by hotel brands that are trying to convince consumers to no longer book through an OTA, but to book directly on the hotels.

What's an OTA?

An OTA, I'm sorry, is an online travel agency. It's like expediarbooking.com I see. And today those OTAs represent about 50% of the, of the bookings that go on across the world. And that's all property classes. And so the hotel hospitality or the hotel industry in 2016 did about $500 billion worth of worldwide revenue, and about half of that went through an ota.

I got it. So the thought is, I mean, was the thought that. Oh, or is it that way the hotels, they make more money when they get that customer don't have to pay that ota.

Correct. So what it is, is hotels, Hotels appreciate the revenues they get from OTAs, but that revenue comes at a cost. And there's three main points that it's costly for a hotel. One is from a profitability standpoint, the OTAs started back in the 90s, and then they started mostly with airline industries. In 2001, after 9, 11, there was a huge drop in the travel industry, as you guys probably remember. So the OTAs stepped up and they reached out to the hotels and they started providing their marketing services to the hotels. And the hotels, because they were desperate, jumped on board, but they negotiated. The OTAs negotiate some very, very high commission rates. And so today an OTA, a hotel probably pays an OTA anywhere from 18 to 30% commission on their sales on a standard travel agent like we are. They, they'll pay a travel, standard travel agent anywhere from seven and a half to 10%. So what we're doing by helping entering the Book Direct and supporting the hotels and their Book Direct initiatives is helping them regain their profitability and cutting their commission cost up to up to 100% by just having direct bookings in addition to it is now when we send a direct booking from our site directly to the hotel site. The hotel is also getting the data footprint of the consumer as well. So today When a consumer purchases through an ota, the OTA captures the consumer's digital footprint. If the consumer makes a reservation for that hotel on the OTA's website, the OTA only sends the reservation header information over to the hotel. So the hotel's not getting any of the digital data footprint of the converter, but more importantly of the booking abandonment. So typically on a nice luxury hotel or a premium hotel where we work, their conversion rates is 2 to 3%. So for every 100 person that comes to an OTA's hotel landing page, two of those people convert 98% or 98%, 98 of them abandoned. And the OTA is retargeting those people.

Got it.

Since we're pushing the data back directly to the ota, I mean, to the hotels now the hotels have access to that data and they can retarget that data as well. So that's a huge benefit for the hotel. Yeah.

You know, that phrase digital footprint scares me and excites me at the same time.

Absolutely. And the stuff going on with Europe and everything else. It should, but it's anonymous data that we're able to improve the user's experience. So it's very useful. And then thirdly, and probably just as important as the profitability and the data is the customer service relationship. Today, when OTA takes that reservation, the hotel didn't set the customer's expectation of when they were coming to the property, what type of room type to. Yeah, so that's all done at the OTA level. And so when the consumer shows up at the property, if there's a problem with the reservation or the room type, they have to in most cases call the ota. So when you're dealing directly with the hotel, now the consumer only has one throat to choke from a service perspective. So the OTA owns the relationship from the pre stay. I mean, the hotel now owns the relationship from pre stay all the way to post stay and billing. And so it really makes for a much more complete customer service experience.

Yeah, I love that. I love that one throat to choke. I'm going to have to remember that and tie that and make that comment, because that's a good one. That's fascinating. The different levels and depths of, you know, how this, how this whole process works. And you know, from someone that's totally on the outside as a consumer, I mean, it's, it is fascinating to hear.

That now it makes sense. I'm curious. In addition to all the GDPR stuff that's going on, you know, browsers are Clamping down on like cross site tracking and things like that. Is there a, I assume there's a benefit there for the hotels to have that direct relationship versus, you know, something that's, that's, you know, one step removed that they, they can't see. They have no visibility anymore past that. Past that.

Right, absolutely. And what we're able to do is provide transparency and visibility for the hotels both on our sister sites that help drive traffic to hotels. Village direct, that's Jesslux.com and Socern Bull. They're, they're basically content sites and almost lead qualification sites for us where a lot of travel content and then those folks are coming from those sites to hotels, Village Direct. And then what the hotels really like about being on our platform is we're able to share a lot of the insights that are going on on our platform that maybe the OTA wouldn't. So we, you know, we can talk to a hotel in Hawaii and say, hey, here's what we're seeing with people who are searching on our platform right now for Hawaii and they're looking 45 or 60 days out at these particular locations. And so we're able to share that information with our hotel and not give them specific information but, but give them insights so they can start planning for making adjustments to, to what they might be offering those consumers during that time frame. So that's a lot of interesting data that we get to provide a hotel as being a, a booking or a hotel search engine.

So I want to point something out to folks who are listening here. You know, hotels, Villas Direct does not exist on, on an island, so to speak. You, it, it is, it's a business. It's its own business, of course, but it's a business that evolved from you having these other websites like you said, that, that generate leads that point to these types of things. Now you could have, you know, joined affiliate programs for these hotels and perhaps maybe you did with just Lux in the past or whatever. But, but there's a lesson here, folks. Pay attention to where you're sending your customers next. Right. Especially if you've got some sort of a content site or content offering. Where are people going when they leave? If lots of people are going to one type of place, well, maybe that's your next business play. Just like Hotels, Villas Direct is here for the Gotero brothers. So.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. That's, that's very cool, Shannon.

I'm going to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to take a second here and Talk about our two spons, if you guys don't mind. So take a minute, get some water, and you will be right back. We will be right back with Gilbert and Shannon here. But I want to talk about our first sponsor, which is Abby connect@abbyconnect.com SBS. You know, we're talking a lot about the value of knowing who didn't stop and leave you a message. Well, if all your business has is voicemail, you might not know who didn't leave you a message. And there is huge value in having a human being answer the phone for you for your business. And that's where Abby Connect's live receptionist comes in. These are people that are all working at Abby Connect's own place right there in Las Vegas. So they're all in the same building answering the phone for your business. This is a very cool thing. We've tested it out. These people are trained to answer the phone for you, knowing how your business works, what questions you want to ask people. They can take messages, of course, but they can also, in the right scenario, direct people to, you know, they can forward the call, say to you either at your desk or on your cell phone, whatever works. Because you get an entire team of professional, courteous receptionists available whenever you need them with Abby Connect. And it's at a fraction of the cost of what it would take to hire one person full time. And the cool part is, you can use it when you need it. Sure. If you want it all the time, great. If you just want it when you're out of the office, great. They work on your schedule. And that way you can work more efficiently, you can interface with your customers better, and you can boost your profit profitability because Abby Connect is right there for you. So I know Abby Connect will make a strong impact on your business. And we've worked out a deal to get you started. No obligation free trial@abbyconnect.com SBS and then after your trial, you get 95 bucks off your first bill. So take advantage of this. Now sign up@abbyconnect.com SBS. That's where you have to go to get the free trial and the 95 bucks off your first bill. Again, that's abbyconnect.com SBS of course. And our thanks for to Abbyy Connect for sponsoring this episode. Our second sponsor today is Textexpander, where@textexpander.com podcast you can sign up for this service app. It's really two things that worked well together, like tastes great together. That allows you to take all those things that you type over and over again. Long emails, short customer service responses, even responses to, like, little text messages or whatever. And you build them into snippets, and then you can invoke them, either with a click of a mouse, the tap on your screen, or by typing a little shortcut that then expands, hence text expander, into whatever you've created. You know how important customer service responses are, and you want to have them right, but you don't want to take five minutes to proofread the same one every time. You also don't want to dig back through your email to find the one that you sent to the last customer, copy it, paste it in, make some changes. No, no, that's inefficient. Have it right there at your fingertips. With textexpander, you can even have it enter form fields so that the customer's name is right there, maybe the product they bought is right there. It asks you for this. That way you don't screw it up. Because when we move quickly, we all screw things up. Textexpander makes us look like perfectionists, and that's a good thing, especially when you're dealing with your customers. And you can share all your snippets, too. They sync amongst not only all your devices, but all the devices of all your team members. So you can write the responses, or you can have the best person on your team write the responses, and then everybody gets to use them 100% of the time. So stay consistent, stay accurate with Textexpander. Visit textexpander.com podcast to learn more, and you get 20% off the cost of your first year. Our thanks to textexpander for sponsoring this episode, and our thanks to you, Gilbert, for hanging out with us. And I'm looking forward to hearing more. So, Shannon, you want to take the next one?

Yeah, yeah. Talking about competitive advantage and things, you know, both those sponsors really can make a big difference in how your small business looks.

That's how it works.

Yeah, exactly. Both of them. So, okay, Gil, you kind of alluded to, you mentioned. Is it Sojourn? I don't know how to pronounce it.

Sojourn.

Sojourn Boulevard as an online magazine and just Lux, the website. And I have a question also about how you acquire customers. And I think this all ties in, and I'd love for you to talk about something. I think you guys have done such a great job with your travel and lifestyle businesses. Is this content creation and how you've used it to acquire customers?

Well, let's step back just one quick second and give the audience a little bit better feel for what the business is. So the parent company is called HVD Hotels Villas Direct Marketing Inc. And we're, it's an umbrella company. And under, we position ourselves as a lead generation platform and a travel publishing group from a lead generation platform, that's Hotels Villas Direct. And then our travel publishing group is our sister publications JustLux.com and Sojourn Boulevard. But JustLux.com as we explained, is an affluent luxury lifestyle publication that's been around since 2004, today reaches over 400,000 unique monthly visitors and has a very high HHI. The audience does over what's, what's the HHI household income of over $150,000.

Awesome.

So when we got into the business and we were working with Just Lux, we were in the luxury hotel space. We knew that we wanted to expand out of luxury and go down one, one layer deeper, which is called the premium layer, if you look at hotels. And so what we did is when we formed Hotels Village Direct, we initially went out and we looked at 15,000 four and five star hotels, luxury and premium hostel hotels across the world. And then we looked and saw which one of those hotels had offered consumers their best rate, offered consumers a best rate guarantee if you book direct. So we've identified 3,500 of those properties and we've onboarded those properties onto our platform. So Hotels Village direct has about 3,500 best rate luxury and premium properties. On the website, we use Just Lux, the content on Just Lux, to help attract that luxury audience for the luxury portion of Hotels Villas Direct. But to reach the aspirational affluent audience, what I would say would be millennials who make over $95,000 and above, we needed another site. And so we created Sojourn Boulevard to reach that aspirational traveler, experienced traveler, the millennial. And so those are our two main feeder sites that feed again, the luxury audience and the premium audience into Hotels Villas Direct. In addition to those feeders, two sites. And going back to your original question of how we drive traffic to the site in general, sure. As a publisher group, we have, we have email, we have email subscribers, over 1.5 million email subscribers. We have a social media following of over 750,000 social media fans on the platforms. And so we leverage that audience as well to drive to Hotels Villas Direct. And then the most important thing about Hotels vill First, we're a B2B platform first. So as a lead generation platform, we're generating leads for hotels, we're going out and we're selling hotels advertising and providing them access to those leads. And so our first two major customers are hotels and then tourism boards that work with a hotel. So we're out selling advertising to those businesses and then we're trying to generate consumers back to those businesses. And so when I sell a hotel an advertising package, let's say it's $5,000 annually, right, I need to go and generate for them a return on ad spend ratio, which roas of about 10 to 1. So I need to generate about $50,000 worth of bookings for them. And so what we do as a marketing platform is first is we take care of our paid hotel partners, right, because we need them to get the return on investment they're looking for for their investment and the traffic and booking that we're generating for them. Secondly, then, then I'm looking just to drive overall consumer traffic to the website to book on any of the hotels that happen to be on our platform. So initially we go after the B2B side, we're taking care of our B2B customers, and then we're starting to look at more of the consumer stuff as well. That all makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense. It's fascinating all the different layers of how this work and you know, the content creation and all that kind of stuff. I mean it's impressive. I think it's, it's, it's fantastic. It seems to me, look, looking at it from the outside that you know, there is, you know, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there for travel and travel sites and the OTA sites and all that stuff. I mean, how do you, is it the content creation and that kind of thing that, that you guys use to make yourself stand out?

The content absolutely helped us stand out, but it's really the, in addition to the lead generation platform itself and what we're able to do. So if you look at our solutions, we have three families or three what we call three pillars of solutions. One would be custom content, one is the search engine and then one is our digital solution. So our custom content is our core traffic driving solution. We know that we have again 12 years or 15 years of content on just Lux. I know the life cycle of content, historic content on just Lux. And then I know that if we write this custom article about the 10 best wedding destinations in Miami, I know that content is going to attract so many visitors in year one and then it's going to attract so many visitors through without its Life its lifespan. So I know that in year one, if that article hits 2,000 people, I'm going to hit another 2,000 people over the next five years. And so that's the value of that content, is what we can get targeted to support our mission and our mission for this year because hotels Village Direct is a new business is we're focused in on, on two large feeder markets. One is California travelers and one is Miami travelers. And if you think about people who live in California or Miami, they really travel to half the people in those states travel to the markets that touch them. So we know that 50% of people in California are traveling to Hawaii, traveling to Arizona, traveling to Las Vegas. 45% of people in Florida are going to Atlanta or to South Carolina or to other markets within Florida. And so we're focused in on those markets. And then we know those two feeder markets there's actually they touch 29 destination markets or are Right. So Hawaii, Oahu would be one destination market. So what we do is we're generating a lot of custom content to support all the traffic for those 29 destination markets. And so that's where our content effort is focused, is focusing, supporting the destination markets. And then our marketing activities are supporting the feeder markets and we're doing direct mail and social media to the people that live in California, trying to encourage them to go to Hawaii or go to Las Vegas.

So wait, I have a, I have a content related question because I've got some content business, this is a content business for, you know, for that matter. But, but I have others. And, and so I'm curious when you're, it sounds to me like when it's time to think about, you know, the week's worth or the month's worth of content that you're putting together, are you focused solely on, Solely primarily, I want to say on creating these, these funnels, for lack of a better term, that might, you know, feed these markets and drive these conversions for you. Or is there some level of it where you're prioritizing? Oh, we have these readers that come to us looking for X, Y or Z. We need to make sure we pub things about X, Y or Z not because they're going to feed to directly to something else. But we know we need to retain our readership. Or is retaining readership not really a concern in today's SEO driven world for you?

It's more of conversion based.

Okay.

And when you look at conversion based, you look at the needs of your, of your paying customer and then as the consumer as well.

Yeah.

You try to balance the need of both.

Okay.

But it's, it's, it's, it's a tightrope. But in most cases, in most cases, if, if the content works for your customer, well, that means a lot of consumers are reading it because they're interested in it. So it's, it's, it's got to be content that works for both.

It. Sure, of course. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But, but every piece of content, if I'm, if I'm understanding you correctly, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like every piece of content definitely has your customers in mind as well as your, your, you know, consumers slash readers. Is that right?

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Fascinating.

Yeah, that is. Okay, so I want to put you on the spot here. We ask everybody on that comes on the show this question, and it's probably because, you know, I've made so many mistakes and I've learned from them, and I know it may be hard for you to find one that you've made because you've had so much vast experience, but, you know, if you look back on a mistake that, that, you know, in your career, whether it's corporate, in your own business, you know, that really taught you the most and stuck with you, what would you say that is?

Well, in the new business stuff, it's really understanding capital and cash flow. It's, you know, that's probably the biggest challenge because as you're building the business, you want to make sure that you can afford to get it to a point and then you can afford to get it to the Next. It's next KPIs. So that's probably the biggest thing is understanding the cash flow requirement and then trying to find people that understand that share your vision and that might want to help invest in your businesses. Sure.

Yeah.

And then I think just then for us and with hotels, specifically with hotels, Villas Direct, I think some of the initial challenges that we had is trying to educate our B2B partners or investors that this is really a B2B play first and then the consumer play second. Because they all know that as you started off the segment is the travel industry is very, very competitive. And to get any kind of noise or to compete here, it's very, very difficult to do. So we're focused being a B2B partner first and then going after consumers. And so that was difficult for us as we started going is trying to explain that to people, to understand that the business model first is we're again, like I said we're a lead generation platform first and then a consumer travel publication second.

Yeah, it sounds, yeah, it's really complex and I imagine getting it into a small enough little bite when you're trying to attract those people can be challenging, that's for sure. So as we wrap things up here, we've got thousands of other small business owners that are listening right now. You know, if you could offer a piece of advice to those folks based on your experience, what would you say to them?

I would think that the biggest thing is trying to leverage, trying to figure out how to leverage your customers as many ways as possible. So not only from generating income, but generating leads, referrals, ideas. It's really trying to get the most, trying to figure out how to get the most out of your customers. Our customers, a lot of our customers, especially on the hotel side of things, I call a frenemy. Right. We have, I'm trying to get money from them, right. So they're not, they don't love me so much. But we have, we have the same, we have the same mission or objectives, which is to get people to book direct on the hotel's website. Sure. Though. So we're encouraging people either to go directly to the brand's help website if they have that preferred brand or search on Hotels Village Direct to discover your brand style and then go book directly on the stamp the brand. So we're being. So in doing so, the people I'm selling to, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars like I said earlier, marketing book direct initiatives. And so they want to work with us. So even though I compete with their messaging a little bit, even though it's the same messaging, I'm just another source. I still add value to them.

So that's interesting. Right. They would, they would rather get the customer. They would rather get the customer directly without having you send them their way, but correct, you send them their way and they don't. They. And they like that because you could save them.

Yeah. And you save money over the ota. And one of the things I loved scouring through your website was the phrase, you know, we're a travel search engine, which I thought was really a good snippet of data because I hadn't really heard that as much anymore or, you know, focused on that where you're just trying to provide that, you know, information to the customer.

That's cool and it's, it's amazing to see the data I love. That's probably one of the most enjoyable things I have at the end of the day is just to go back and look at the data of the people that are coming in and what, what they're, what they're looking at, where they're going. And it's just you, you. Then you can look at that and you can go, oh, I can make all these other business decisions now if.

There'S, if there's one thing I think people should take away from, from listening to you talk here it, and I think they pro probably already have. But just in case it's, hey, look at the value that you've created by simply paying attention to data. I mean, I don't mean to dismiss all the other things you've done, but it really starts with pay attention to the data and learn from it and let it at least give you hints as to what to do next. It may not be your deciding factor, but it certainly can shine some lights that are worth following down.

Yeah, that's killer. Well, that's good. I mean, we really appreciate you taking the time to educate us here. I know a lot more about, you know, what's going on on the back end. I'm ready to go on vacation. And I also wanted to say, when you get that cash flow thing figured out, please let me know because I've had that problem many, many, many, many times. What's the best way for our listeners to learn more about your business and to connect with you guys?

So they can visit the site Hotels, Villas Direct, or they can send me an email@gilbertgotelsvillasdirect.com that's awesome.

Thank you again. We really appreciate it. Once again, I've learned the most here, which, you know, that's okay with me. That's awesome. And thanks for listening, everybody. We really appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks so much, Gil. This has been great, man. It's fascinating, really fascinating to listen to how you approach things. It's awesome. So thanks, folks. See us at businessshow.co. keep living that charmed life life. And we'll see you next week.