Interview with Nick D’Agnillo of Nexus Property Management – Small Business Show episode 207

The Small business show episode 207 for Wednesday, January 23, 2019. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, the show that is by, for and about small business owners. Sponsors for this episode include AbbyConnect.com SPS and ExpressVPN.com SBS we'll tell you all about those shortly. Here, here where it's freezing cold in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton and this is Shannon.

Jean coming to you from the west coast where it's about, I don't know, maybe close to 70.

Sounds great.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we, we, there's some extra fees involved in that kind of weather out here, so.

That is true.

We pay them one way or another. Yeah, that's right. How are you doing out there besides being cold?

Yeah, you know, it's fin. Was, I think it was seven today, so that was cool.

Oh, that's not bad. That's not bad. That's a digit.

It's Fahrenheit. Yeah, it's good.

Yeah, it's positive.

Yep.

That's awesome.

That's good. Well, we're not going to let you belly it too much so because since we have a guest waiting in the wings and you know, we've talked about on this show, you know, over hundreds of times about all the different ways of starting a business, you know, and, and you can start something from scratch. We talk about partnerships all the time. We talk about people buying business, selling businesses and. But one thing we haven't really talked about was franchising how that process works for your own business if you decided to franchise it and maybe from the other perspective too, if you're going to buy one. I'm really happy today to have Nick d' Agnalo of Nexus Property Management for joining us. Thanks for being here today, Nick.

Hey, thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it. Yeah.

So Nick's going to educate us about the franchise business model and talk about how he's done it. Get started with a little background about you. Nick, back up. Before Nexus, what did you do before starting and why did you start a property management business?

Sure. The main reason I started a property management business is because I had been managing property that I purchased in college. I managed my own property throughout college and then after. So I had experience doing it. I got out of high school and you know, dealt high stakes blackjack and went to school for finance and I, you know, I got my finance degree in 2009 which, so that was kind of like having an expensive Napkin at the time.

Yeah, right, right.

So at that time I, I was playing, started playing. I quit my job because I was playing poker on the side throughout that period and was making more money playing poker. And I had rental property that I purchased, you know, like I said in school. So a decade of experience there, played poker for a few years, got burnt out with that and was like, okay, I need to do something else. And I was like, I know how to manage property, maybe I can get a property management job. So, you know, you go on the websites, you look at the job offerings and for the property manager makes and I was like, that's kind of gross. So let me see what's actually in entails to open a property management company and just kind of, you know, take a swing at it. And I, one day I walked into, you know, now my, you know, my biggest competitor's office, but I walked into his office, I guess, yeah, I guess I can say the name here. But you know, it's a real property management franchise. They're locally, they're here in Providence, Rhode Island. And I sure, you know, he actually, the owner actually sat down with me a little bit, was, gave me some tips and some pointers and you know, I went after it. I maxed out my credit cards, got the website going, got the licenses I needed, spent time on that and went after it.

That's awesome. Couple of points. I really think that high stakes blackjack and a finance degree go hand in hand. That's a perfect, perfect combination. And then the other thing is I really want to recognize and commend you for taking the step to walk into somebody that, you know, was going to become a competitor of yours and that they, you know, sat down and gave you some information and I would, I think that's such a great thing to do that a lot of people don't do is, you know, when you're trying to get started, just walk in someplace or make a phone call and connect. Most people will, will share information with you, right?

It's true. If, if a potential new competitor, like if an existing business came, you know, CEO or whatever came to me and said, I want to pick your brain and be like, yeah, you know what, maybe buy me lunch first, you know. But if somebody new came in and said I want to get into, tell me what, you know, like, I would love that. Right. I mean, that's what we do on this show, right? So yeah, don't think that people will turn you away. In fact, more often than not, they'll sit you down And a few hours later have given you all the secrets.

So. Yeah.

So did he give you all the secrets?

Was that he got me started. You know, he pointed me in the direction of software, which was huge, huge leg up. Just even knowing that software existed that would make sense and which one. And, you know, just some basic stuff like I'll get a small office, you know, you. And then some basic ideas how we handled maintenance and, you know, some, some of the things that he would manage and like condo management, he didn't do. And I, you know, I remember tentatively being like, oh, you know, I'll do that if you get those calls and almost trying to make like an agreement with them. But it was, it was very helpful.

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, that I just didn't want to, you know, let that go slip through because it's just so important. So you start Nexus and, you know, was it always in your head that, hey, someday I'm going to franchise this thing and grow it, or is it. Was it just something that came up later, you know, after you had gotten things rolling?

It was my plan. You know, day one, I really like, you know, I read like the E Myth and all these books and trying to learn about investing and, you know, structuring a business and having exit plans and way to scale efficiently, stuff like that. And just my mindset from playing poker for a living is kind of when you play poker, you have to look at a situation and with imperfect information and just make a decision and be able to replicate that on and on and on with all these different situations. So I figured in business I would do the same thing and kind of come up with essentially a plan where somebody else could replicate what I did because of those, build a manual. So that's how I approached it from day one.

Wow, that's really cool. I like that. And I like the analogy of making decisions with limited information. We're back to the cards here. But it's a really interesting way to look at it, you know, from the, from the poker aspect.

Well, you have to do that in business all day long. Yeah. I mean, you're never going to have all. You're never going to know what the exact perfect right answer is before you make the decision. And to your point, you have to make the decision, otherwise you're dead in the water.

Yep, exactly. Yeah, that happens so often and just kind of went hand in hand. My, you know, kind of the mindset. So that was a big benefit I had, I guess.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's really cool. So When I think about franchises, you know, and I've had a bunch of small businesses and we've talked about franchising and trying to come up with things, and it's always something that has seemed like such a big headache to me, full of regulations, bureaucracy. One, you know, is, is that perception correct? And then can you, can you kind of walk us through the step of how you, you know, got to that point where you could begin. Begin offering Nexus property management franchises?

Yeah, there's, I mean, the, you know, you got the fdd, the Franchise disclosure document, that's kind of like the, the federal regulated document you have to provide. And, you know, you have to have financials in there and they sample the agreement and there's all these schedules and sections that you have to, you know, have the cost of how much it costs to open and you have to literally. I found a consultant who was really good, that helped me with the process. But, you know, that, that FDD is like a 400 page legal document.

Wow. Yeah.

See, I've seen serious. It's to the point where like, you know, sometimes we'll get like a prospect who like, wants to open a franchise and I have to tell them, like, hey, I'm gonna, I have to send you this document. Like, and sometimes they get intimidated and they're like, no, no, no. You know, it's just, there's a lot.

Well, maybe that's, maybe that's a good thing, right? Where if they can't power through that, right, then you're kind of funneling, you know, weeding people out.

Not a bad litmus test. Yep.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I had a guy who was like, ah, you know, I don't know about the franchise model, you know, because I already sent him the, the fdd. And then he's like, but I, you know, I'd be willing to pay you a percentage of the revenue and you teach me how to do it. I'm like, that's what that's for. That's why it's got it. That's legally, we're legally required to give you that for that type of arrangement.

Yeah, it makes, so it makes total sense. And so you mentioned you hired a consultant. I mean, is that something that you'd recommend for anyone that's looking to franchise your business or explore the opportunities that may be there with franchising?

Absolutely. And I don't, I don't know how you could ever do it without one, to be honest. I had to go line by line with him to really create that document. And you know, and it's this. And the thing is the price ranges from that because I are huge. So I was lucky to find a consultant that literally that's all he did, was help people create franchises, you know, because you could call attorneys who kind of are in the field, and you could get, you know, you could get 200, $250,000 price tags on this process. No, easily. If you kind of take them. Take a misstep here or there.

Yeah, sure. And that was going to lead me kind of. My next question. Is there kind of. I don't want to ask you specifics, but is there a price range that somebody, let's say, you know, a small business that wants to, you know, move into franchising? Are they price range. They're looking at where. What their expectation can be to get to the point where they can actually start offering them. What does it typically cost?

Yeah, it's tough to say because you have to create a. You have to create an operations manual, and that's mostly on you.

Okay.

If you have that or you've been working on that, that's, that's a good amount of cost. I had, I had one of, one of the guys who works for me who does all of our, you know, writing of that type of stuff and policy writing and stuff. So, you know, you got labor there. Yeah. And then the consultant, you know, those probably range between, you know, sometimes you have a franchise broker, relationship consultant that'll come on a little cheaper, but they, you have to sign the agreement for them to sell the franchises.

I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would, you know, I try to stay away from that, but, you know, you're probably looking at, you know, 50 to 100,000 for the consultant.

Okay.

Then whatever other legal fees on top and fees to create the manual and, you know, any infrastructure fees to set up your websites or however your, your business runs. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, okay. So. So you're walking into six figures here, no matter how you look at it, and, and perhaps quite deeply into six figures if you don't already have all the sort of the materials ahead of time.

So. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

Makes sense.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah. That's really excellent information. And, and I mean, I get it. You know, there you got to go through this process to be sure it's a valid, you know, concept of franchise. Right. I mean, they want to make sure it's producing revenue and you've got all these operational things in place to where you hand it off to somebody. A chance of success.

Yeah. And then the other thing is it has to actually be unique. Like. Yes. It has to make sense for somebody would to ever buy it. So the consultant, the one that I actually chose, you know, that was the first part of the kind of the vetting process as he looked through my entire business and the processes and to see if it was even a franchisable concept.

Yeah, that makes sense because like when I thought of when we first connected them all. Huh. Property manager. That's an interesting. I'd never seen a franchise, you know, opportunity like that. So they kind of vet the business model and see what, whether it's unique enough to get out there and be successful.

Yeah, absolutely. He won't even take on the project, at least my consultant anyway. You want to do that for your own because if for some reason you did get somebody who would give you the yeah, yeah, yeah, let's start making this a franchise. And it's not unique enough or you don't have a business model that's tied up enough, or you offer enough value to a franchisee, then you spend all that money and you know, you're dead.

Yeah, it's not going to work. So. Okay, so what you went through the process, how long did it take? Was it, you know, it's just a year or more project or six months, I mean.

Yeah, probably took about, you know, 16 months to, you know, two years, something like that.

Yeah, yeah. So a year or two to get it done. And, and I'm, I'm curious about, I mean, I see lots of franchises available. I'm curious about the type of, of person that's going to be successful, you know, like what makes a successful franchisee? You know, is it a typical small business owner, do you think, or have you found that it's a different type of person that you're really looking for?

I mean, I think that would be, you know, a lot of that would depend on the model and what business you're offering. I know with mine, you know, it's really, you know, we have an ex school teacher, an ex poker player, and a former business owner running a Nexus office.

Yeah.

So these, those personalities, they're all doing well. So what I could boil it down to, it's really an attitude, like a solution, focus and like teachable person.

I see, sure.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

You got to be able to follow someone else's formula and, and, and be successful. That way you can't be too much of a, a lone wolf. Right. Or a rogue. Otherwise it's not going to work out.

Yeah. So like, if the, if somebody owned a property management business and they, and they wanted to open one, it probably would be a bad sign.

Yeah.

Because they, you know, they're probably already set in, you know, inefficient practices and policies and stuff that, you know, now it's like, you know, we kind of working against it.

Yep.

Yeah, that makes sense. And you kind of. That, you know, if I would imagine, you have to conform kind of to the plan. Right. That's what they're buying. This is how you do it now. It works. And they can't veer too far from it. Right. I mean, are they contractually obligated to follow these certain steps that are laid out in the agreement?

Yeah, there's a lot of laid out there. There is some leeway and a lot of flexibility based on local markets as far as pricing and the local laws, terms of, you know, lease structure, agreement structure and eviction process, stuff like that changes. But the general core business functions and, and processes, you know, pretty much stay the same.

I see. No, that makes sense. And, and you're, and you're still running what is an essentially a Nexus franchise of your own, right? You're still managing properties in your local area, right?

Yeah. In Pawtucket, Rhode island, where our headquarters is, where, you know, where I started the business. We still.

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So I spent some time looking at your website, nexuspropertymanagement.com I think it was. One thing I really liked was how all your pricing was up front. I jumped on some other property management sites and was looking around and I was always hit with this, call us, call us for a quote, enter your information.

Yeah.

And you know, how important has it been for you to capture customers? You know, I mean, is that a competitive advantage, having your pricing up there?

It's huge. And, and it's actually started to where. Because when I first started the business, I had to go on these websites and I had to call these companies to get the price. Yeah. I needed to know what I should charge and I couldn't find any prices listed in my area. So I was like, okay, whenever I do get established prices, I'm putting them right up. And that's what I did. And you know, people love it. And we get a lot of leads quickly like that to the point where now our competition, they're all, they've started doing it as well.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It totally makes sense because if I had, you know, some property that I needed, you could just quickly get it. And, you know, I respect that. I think it's really cool.

Yeah, there's another aspect to that too is it's transparency and kind of treating all your customers fair. Because if, if the, the price isn't posted, then like that means that the company doesn't know how much to charge or they're charging people all different. So you don't know if you're getting a good deal. Yeah. So it's crazy if you don't, if you don't list it. It's really crazy. Yeah.

Because. Yeah, because you can. Then you know each individual person. Well, I gotta Massage it here, massage it there. You know that. Yeah, that's really good.

At the casino. So the price went up today.

Yeah.

Really?

Or a bigger company, if you think they can get soaked, you know, they can pay more or this, you know, so. Yeah, I think that's great. I really like that, that concept. So also looking around on the site, I see, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on there that you have and new ideas. I mean, I'd like to talk about this rent for you concept you have up there and invest. Do you have up there? It's like, you know, again, just give us some background on those and how you've used those concepts to grow your business and make you stand out from others.

Sure. So most of our competition, they want to, you know, they, they want to manage single family rental homes. You know, okay. You know, it's very easy and very little maintenance. Not much happens with them. But in this area there's, it's densely populated. There's a lot of multi families and you know, large apartment complexes. So you run into those and sometimes you have the owner who is just looking for a tenant and they're not that great at screening tenants or advertising vacancies. So that's where I came up with the rent for you service, where we'll have that owner, they want to manage it themselves, but they just want, they want you to place the tenant.

I see.

Okay.

Okay, got it, got it. So they're trying to down, you know, I know how to do this part, but I'm no good at this. So they can hire somebody to offset that weakness.

Exactly. So we, we perform that service for them. And that's, to be honest with you, most of the people who do that end up signing up for management eventually.

Of course, because they see how you can take their headaches away.

Yeah, exactly. And now the invest is even before that. So, you know, when I, when I started the company, it was, you know, after the downturn, the financial crisis. So a lot of people were stuck in properties and they were just, or they bought properties wrong. Like they didn't, they didn't cash flow correctly or they didn't know how to model the potential roi. And they got in some bad situations. So, you know, and they're, they're trying to squeeze money where it's not, it doesn't exist. And there's a lot of clients early on. So invest is a service where we, we act as the buyer agent and we actually take our clients and find them profitable properties and take them from from the, you know, the initial showing through the inspections to the purchase and represent them the entire way and then we manage it after the fact. So it's really the full, the full gamut of real estate investing and they get put into good sit because obviously we have to manage it after. So yeah, we've had a lot of success with that, especially recently with the market has gone up. So you know, we have clients that bought multiple properties with me three years ago that sold them all and made 100,000 a clip on all, you know, these multi units, stuff like that.

How smart is that though? Because yeah, you're essentially cultivating your next round of business. Like that's your business development right there is using these people that, not using but you know, taking these people that have money that want to invest, you find them the property that you want to manage and it's a win, win, win. Right, that, I mean it's, it's fantastic.

Just it fuels the model. It's perpetual. You know, it's like a, it's like a closed loop model. And. Yeah, and on the offset of that as far as like, well, we'll work with investors to purchase but we don't water down our services. We don't. If it's a first time home buyer, they're looking to buy their, a home that they want to live in, we don't do it. If you're looking to sell, if you're looking to sell a property, we don't do it. We only, we only specialize in, you know, finding profitable investments, managing them. That's it.

That's it. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Because it fits your model. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

A lot of our competition, they do the sales and you know, the first time buyers, they water it down and that's kind of how we get ahead of them. They just, they get capped out.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you only have so much time, right? I mean you can do all these things, but are they really going to fuel your business's success or are they going to be distractions? And it sounds like you figured out how to stay away from the distractions as best you can. That's smart, man.

Yeah. They cannibalize their own model with a lot of that stuff.

Right?

Yeah, right, yeah. And the other thing I like about it too is that I would imagine your company culture is pretty creative and when you're introducing and doing these kind of new things to grow your business in other ways and I imagine that, you know, it's good for your team. It's Good for your, your people to be involved in these other processes instead of, hey, this is the same thing we do in and out every single day. You're able to now offer these other services. I think it's great.

Oh, yeah, it adds on. We even have, and, you know, we, I have a program for my employees that helps them purchase their first property and then, you know, they get free management on the first four units type stuff. And one of my employees that came on early, he's now grown to be our biggest client. He's got 30 units. Wow.

Yeah, that's killer. What a great idea and what a great opportunity, you know, lifting everybody up that you're, that you're working with to help them as well. And it helps you. And that's really great. I commend you for that.

It works well.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So tell me, what's the biggest challenge for you guys for Nexus and what are you doing now to, you know, try to overcome that, that challenge, that kind of the next step for you?

Yeah, so the biggest, our biggest problem is kind of educating landlords or owners that don't understand how much it actually is costing them to manage themselves or, and they say on the same aspect, trying to educate potential franchisees when they call up and they go, oh, well, 25,000 for a franchise, I can just open my own business. It's like, yeah, sure, sure, you can, you can.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's, it's like, you know, you know, how, you know, decisions that got us to where we are over the last six years and how you have to be right on essentially all of them.

Yeah, sure.

You know, and, you know, it's that kind of stuff.

Yeah. So educating your, your clients and your franchisees and, and how do you guys, you know, what, what do you, how do you overcome that or how do you get that, you know, you have a process in place that helps get through that with them.

Well, it's hard. We, we have actually, we created a tool on the website that's kind of a. It's called Cost Calculator. So you can go on there and put how many units you have, what your, what, you know, what your salary is, how much your time is worth, and then it'll tell you, hey, this is how much you're paying and this is how much it would cost to have Nexus manage a property. And if you're saving money or if you're losing money.

Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, we're going to have to link to that. And is it Is it localized? I mean, is it kind of thing where if I put that into California real estate would just freak out or, you know, does it work?

It would still work essentially based on the percentages because you'd have to put how much the rent is for each unit and then how much your time is worth. So it's still work because it uses the. The average time to rent a unit is, you know, 50 hours. The average time spent managing a unit per year is 50 hours. So it uses those calculations.

That's killer.

You know, the percentage for the management fee gives you a number.

That's great. I love this stuff. It's so smart. Awesome way you're just right up front.

About it, right all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's true.

You know, if you. You know, depending on what your time is worth and maybe. Maybe it doesn't make sense, right? Yeah, it usually does, but it usually does well.

And. And that's the thing is, you know that your product, I mean, you've not only have. You've been doing it forever, but you've really honed this down. So you know that this works.

And.

And that people can be successful by partnering with you. And so it. At some point, they're gonna see the price, they're gonna see what it's gonna cost. You might as well show it to them right up front. It's like. It's like my philosophy with job interviews. I talk money with people first. Like, are we in the ballpark with each other? Great. Now let's talk about whether or not you're a good fit here. But it doesn't matter. If you're a good fit and you need three times what I'm able to pay, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, let's get the money out of the way, and then we're not wondering about it now we can have a real conversation. I think it's great. I think it's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

Very cool. It helps a lot, too, because if you. If you have the call for a quote thing, now, you have to have somebody answering the phone for somebody who's not. They're not really a strong lead.

Yeah, they're sniffing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now you're kind of. You're kind of wasting, you know, bandwidth, and, you know, that adds up into all those little, small mistakes. Add up.

Yeah, that's.

That's great.

So talking about mistakes, you know, one of the things we ask everybody who comes on this show is. Is really what's their. What's their best mistake? And what I mean by that is, you know, because we know mistakes, that we learn so much from them. You know, what. What mistake has taught you the most as you've developed Nexus and rolled into this franchising?

Okay, I think my. My biggest mistake was, you know, hiring and firing. And the way I make mistakes there early on is a bunch of different ways. But I remember when I first started, I was trying to look for somebody, you know, I was trying to hire for maintenance help and try to hire a maintenance director to help grow the company. And I was trying to look for somebody like my. My. My own age. I was 30 at the time. And that was a mistake because that's not. That's not the age group or the person you need at the end. I didn't. And so I ended up hiring a guy. He was almost 60, more experienced, more experience. And, you know, it gave me authority in the maintenance realm because he had the answers to all the stuff that I had no idea about, and it really helped out. And in the same aspect, hiring for skills is not as important as hiring for attitude.

Yeah, I hear you on that one.

So I've had. I've had people who, you know, the, you know, the guys can do anything, can do anything in the maintenance realm. But the thing is, the wrong attitude and it's, you know, it's almost like a bad locker room guy, if you want to call it, kind of sure takes morale down and causes friction with the team. But you can have a guy with a great attitude, and if he's willing to learn, way better off for. And. And so those mistakes. And the firing. Firing is generally. I always tell my franchisees, too, like, if you think you should fire the guy, you already should have done it.

Definitely, man. Listen to all of our listeners. Take the last, like 150 seconds of this show and play it again. Because I'm sitting here thinking, man, I wish I had heard this 15 years ago, 20 years ago, whatever it is. I just like, oh, my God, it's so true. But it's hard. I probably did hear this 15 or 20 years ago, but until you. Until you make that mistake, it's really hard firing somebody. It sucks. But, man, it should be. And it should be brutal, right? Like, if you. I think we said this in a recent episode, Shannon, if it feels good to you to fire people all the time, some people will feel good to fire. Yes, But. But generally speaking, no, it shouldn't feel good. So, yeah, it's hard.

Exactly. Yeah, that's.

That's awesome.

Yeah. So you may have just told us this, you know, with that, with that mistake, I'm not sure. But, you know, we've got thousands of folks listening that are, that are small business owners or potential small business owners, you know, and if you could offer your single best piece of advice that you've learned, and maybe it was something you learned at the poker table versus, you know, in the, in the business, but what would that, that single, you know, bit of advice be for them?

Yeah, I guess, I guess it does make sense. Comes a little bit from poker and the decision, you know, kind of making quick decisions and setting to those. But I would say the biggest piece of advice that I had a noticeable difference when I started doing it when I was trying to grow the company and it was saying no. When you say no to somebody who's calling you up and trying to change your policy or make you move on price and you say no, it sets your authority. It sets that you've researched this situation that you know what you're talking about and that you're fair with all of your clients and you're not. You know, I remember used to say no, that would be doing a disservice to all of my clients. That was a phrase that I caught on early and I wasn't really adding units a ton. But as soon as I started saying no, as soon as I say it, they go, okay, what's the next step? How do I sign up?

Oh, wow, that's really great. I like that. I really like that phrase, you know, be doing a disservice to all of my existing clients. When somebody, especially trying to get you to change what you do or the way you do it. And then we're huge, huge proponents of not coming off price points. And it, you know, I always say it's, you're looking for a person, not price. So I think that's excellent advice. That's really cool. Well, Nick, I've learned a ton of stuff. I knew nothing and not, you know, about your business and you know, I definitely have a good insight into how you make things happen. It's impressive. What's the best way for our listeners to learn more about Nexus and connect with you?

Yeah, they could go to nexuspropertymanagement.com they could give us a call, 888-nexus55 or they could shoot me an email. Nickexuspropertymanagement.com oh, that's great.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and keep in touch so you can check back in with us. As you grow this franchise network will do.

Thanks a lot, guys.

Yeah, man. Thank you so much. This was a great one, folks. You can always find us at businessshow. Co. Keep doing what you can to live that charmed life, and we'll see.