Interview with Paul Disselkoen of the Paypal Small Merchant Advisory Board – Small Business Show 124

The Small business show, episode 124 for Wednesday, June 21, 2017. Greetings, folks, and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow. Co here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in the San Francisco Bay area, I'm Shannon Jean. Hey, was that some new music?

That's our new theme music. That's right, Shannon.

Oh, that's awesome. I'm excited.

I know. I knew I figured I'd surprise you with that. I know you've been working on that for a while, so it's all ready to go. That's right.

Had the drums out last night.

Yep. That's right.

That's great. That's great. Well, hey, as we do from time to time, we've got a guest on the show today. And you know, anybody that knows me or has listened to this show for a long time that knows that I'm a big proponent of PayPal in a far greater way than just receiving payments and sending payments and things and how they can be such a great partner to help your business grow. I know a few people there, and one of the folks there, Paul Disselkon, who works with the PayPal government relations department, is with us today. Welcome to the show, Paul.

Thanks so much, Shannon. Great to be here.

Yeah, thanks. And, Paul, you're also. You are part of the Small Business Merchant Advocacy delegation, which we're going to talk about on the show today. That right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I run our small merchant advocacy group here at PayPal.

That's great. That's cool. So talk. Talk for a moment. We have a ton of questions for you, but I want to give you a minute to talk about your background and your experience, you know, and how did you get involved with PayPal and public policy and that kind of thing?

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I've always had an interest in politics and advocacy work ever since I was in school. And I worked at a small grassroots public relations firm right out of school, and from there, one of their clients was ebay, which I'm sure you know, at the time, eBay and PayPal were one company. And I worked for the ebay government relations team and worked solely on small business advocacy for that team and working to build up a network of small business advocates and grassroots work. And in 2015, when PayPal split off to be an independent company and separated from ebay, I ended up jumping to the PayPal side of things and started replicating some of the work that I had done and building up the small business advocacy work for Paypal and specifically working on PayPal issues and PayPal, you know, policy priorities. And that's what I've been doing ever since, really been focused on PayPal's tools and services and how those can really empower and enable small businesses.

That's great. You know, and it's something that. And I've mentioned this to you before, I talk about PayPal a lot, but I don't think a lot of small business owners know, you know, that there's this whole other arm within the organization doing this stuff in the background to, you know, really are advocates for small business. So I think it's really cool, and I'm really glad to have you on the show.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's great to be able to do this work, and it's something that I take very seriously, and I'm very passionate about and really enjoy being able to work with small business owners like yourself on some of these issues.

That's great. So let's talk a little bit about that. The stuff that most folks may not know about. What does your group focus on or how does that impact small business owners? These things you're doing for public policy and the advocacy group?

Sure, yeah. So our group focuses solely on small business issues. That is what our grassroots arm of our government relations team works on. You know, you can kind of divide PayPal up into two different categories. Offerings for consumers and then offerings for merchants. And our group is really tailored to the merchant community and the services and tools that really streamline their businesses and help them grow. So in doing that, we focus on various policy issues that affect small business owners as well as PayPal, and, you know, have the potential to affect the products and services that we offer. You know, really, in the end, what's best for our merchants is best for us. So, you know, we want to see our merchants succeed. And in D.C. you obviously see, you know, various interest groups going up to Capitol Hill and lobbying for their big business or their corporation. And our goal is to give a voice to the small business. You know, we want to lift up the voice of that community that might not have the resources to have a huge presence, you know, in the. In the legislative community. And, you know, that's our main goal, to prop up the interests of entrepreneurs that use PayPal to benefit their business so that we can allow small businesses as well as PayPal to succeed in the end.

So that's sort of a broad picture, but for anybody listening, you know, small business owners are all about. But what's that really mean? So can you give an example. I mean, I realize there's probably, like hundreds of things that you do every year, but can you give us an example of just a couple of them just to kind of paint this picture a little bit clearer?

Yeah, absolutely. So our PayPal Small Merchant Advocacy Delegation, or SMAT, which is what we call it for short, is a group of small business owners across the US that we work with. And there are a number of different things that we work with them on to engage legislators and regulators throughout the year. So that can take a number of different forms. We always create a case study on each of the businesses that we work with, and we've found that sharing those case studies with legislators, with policymakers is a great tool to show what a real small business looks like and the real impact that policy issue might have on that business. We have a annual event that we call our Advocacy Day, where we bring in a select number of these small merchant advocates to Washington, D.C. and over a couple days, we take them up to Capitol Hill and have them meet directly with their members of Congress and we host roundtable discussion so that we can talk about some of the various policy issues that are going on in. In the space for small businesses. We also, you know, try to be thought leaders in the space. So we conduct, you know, various research and, and put papers out there and, and feature small businesses in that work. And then we try to be local. You know, we. We want to make sure that these small business owners can connect with their legislators back in their home districts, too. So, you know, we have August recess coming up, and that's always a fantastic opportunity to connect small business owners with their legislators back in their home district. So it's a number of different things that we work on year round.

Sure. Yeah, that's. That's very cool, man.

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, here you got, like you said, these large companies that are sending lobbyists up there all the time to get their pet projects or things that they're interested in. And you've got you, you know, your group in the background and PayPal introducing the small business owners to, you know, government representatives and making sure that, you know, you're getting their voice heard. I think it's a really positive, you know, thing to do. And so. Okay, well, I kind of have this sense and I've mentioned it to you and that, you know, how do people learn more about, you know, smad? And, you know, the first time I heard about it, I was like, oh, I didn't even know you guys did this kind of thing, you know, and how do you find these businesses? And what would somebody do to go about getting involved, to get their voice heard if they wanted to hook up with you guys?

Yeah. So obviously, if anybody wants to get involved, they can visit our government relations website, which is part of our paypal.com domain. It's just paypal.com publicpolicy. And we really welcome any small business owner that wants to join and share their story and talk a little bit about PayPal. But, you know, we recruit based on a couple different factors. Obviously, we, we can't just rely on small businesses coming to us. We really try to proactively get out there and, and let merchants know what we're doing and recruit those small business owners. So, you know, I think first and foremost, we really just like to find good stories, people who are really passionate about their businesses. You know, obviously you guys who are so familiar with the small business community understand, you know, how many people out there are just so passionate about what they're doing and, you know, having built something for, and, and really driving that and, and doing something that makes them happy. And we like to find folks who sell unique products that, you know, may be in a niche market that can really only succeed in an online e commerce environment. You know, the, the 21st century marketplace has expanded to, to the Internet. And businesses that might not have been able to survive on Main street back in the day can now thrive based on this expansive customer base that they can reach through the Internet. So being able to demonstrate how the Internet has changed who can succeed as a small business is a really great story to tell. Second, I think we try to look at whether they're using PayPal's tools to make sure they can incorporate that into their story. As you mentioned, PayPal offers so many different tools and services beyond just payment processing that can benefit merchants. And getting that story out there is hugely beneficial. You know, not many people know, especially up on Capitol Hill, the range of different products that we offer and being able to tell that story is great. And finally, one of the things that we look at is where they're located. There are obviously some members of Congress that have more jurisdiction over some issues over others. So, you know, we look at congressional district and where business is located, but really, in the end, we just love having entrepreneurs who enjoy what they do and enjoy sharing their story and have found PayPal to be useful in growing their business.

That's cool. Yeah. I can remember having a conversation a few years ago and someone at PayPal and I mentioned, oh, you know, we use PayPal to vet our overseas suppliers. And they were like, what? You know, I was like, well, if you. If you can't, if you don't have a PayPal account. And we were buying lots of product in China and Shenzhen, and, you know, that was like your first line of, oh, what's your PayPal account? Oh, you know, I don't have one, or I can't do business with PayPal. Well, that. That said a lot to us. Yeah. Because there's always a reason. Right? You know, if PayPal hasn't kind of vetted you or if you had a PayPal account and all of a sudden you don't anymore, well, that really sent a message to us. And so we started doing business with folks that we could pay with PayPal. And I knew that they were already kind of checked out. And once I told that story, you know, my phone kind of rang off the hook and, like, come talk to us. We want to do this. We want to, you know, so creative ways that you use PayPal that maybe other folks aren't thinking about definitely get. Gets you attention.

Yeah. And I mean, that. That's just a great example. PayPal has this great brand and trust around the world that helps merchants, you know, make sure that they are doing business, you know, and having a level of comfort on both ends, you know, both with the consumer as well as the merchant. So, you know, it's great to just have that. That level of trust and there up front.

That's cool. And it's a great group of folks that really do want to learn about your business. Let's talk about learning about business. You guys, your team, you recently created a report and pulled a bunch of data out to talk about how small businesses are growing in payment processing and the benefits that they're getting from using PayPal. Can you speak to that for a couple of minutes?

Yeah, absolutely. So the new report that we recently put out, we actually released it during National Small Business Week back in May, is titled Democratizing Globalization. And really what that's all about is the Internet has really changed the calculus of who can fully engage in globalization. And the elimination of some of the traditional barriers for small businesses, like distance trust, which we just talked about in communication, and really breaking down those barriers, which PayPal can help do, enables small businesses to really benefit from the open global economy. So the first thing that we looked at was growth. You know, how do merchants using PayPal measure up in terms of growth with traditional businesses? So small businesses that grew or small businesses that use PayPal grew at a rate of 22.9% year over year, and that compares to a 7.8% growth rate for traditional businesses. So, you know, you really see that businesses that use PayPal were able to grow quite a bit more. And what we wanted to look at, as I mentioned, was, you know, how this affects a small business operating on a global scale. So small businesses that use PayPal, 79% of small businesses that use PayPal exported. Now, traditional U.S. small businesses export at a rate of less than 5%. You know, if you are on PayPal, you know, you are, you are pretty much, pretty much everybody's exporting, which is great because we also found that small business exporters that use PayPal grew at 32.8%. So, you know, it's really just showing that using PayPal and engaging in e commerce is really beneficial for growing your business and just expanding who you can reach out to.

So.

And I know that there's a lot of stuff that goes on globally and all of that, But I think PayPal can be helpful not just to those people that are doing business online, but people that are doing business person to person, you know, and I think about the very small business, right, the solopreneur that's out there mowing people's lawns, even that person can use PayPal to charge their customers. And, you know, I feel like there might be some good examples of that out there, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one of the things that we found was small businesses in almost every sector using PayPal can grow. So, you know, there are certain businesses, like, you know, in industries like education, healthcare, administrative services, other sectors that previously, you know, you really were isolated to your, you know, your hometown. Now those businesses can trade, you know, cross border, just like other business, reach customers across the US you know, and, and they can use PayPal to grow their business just like anybody else. So it's really just opening up opportunities for small businesses like, like never before.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

So, you know, I, I would think that it's a daunting job, you know, pounding the pavement and knocking on doors to try to get, you know, your message across. Do you find that as well? I mean, what's your biggest challenge that you guys face each day when pushing this agenda for small business owners?

Yeah, so I think that there are obviously a number of challenges out there, but one of the biggest challenges always is just getting your position, your message out there, and having legislators and policymakers understand some of the tools that we have available to small businesses. And that's really where Smash comes in, you know, relaying that information from a firsthand perspective. It's. It's obviously difficult, you know, with so much gridlock in Washington, D.C. and so much focus on some of these, the bigger headline issues, to get legislators to focus in on some of the more subtle policy issues that can have a big impact on small businesses. There are a number of different policy issues that we focus on. You know, a couple that we prioritize, and we always try to spread that message. And one of the ways that we can do that is through some of those, you know, flagship events and panels and roundtables and our advocacy day that I mentioned a little bit earlier. But, you know, we. We really like to think of ourselves as, you know, thought leaders in the small business area and, you know, just trying to push out that message as best as we can.

That's great. That's good. So, you know, we talked about the, the, you know, getting 10 to 15, you know, small business owners together and going, taking them up to D.C. and that kind of thing. Do they do local, you know, stuff where, you know, they. Connecting with people on. In the. In the local community? You do that as well?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things that we love to do is put on facility tours where when a member of Congress is back in their district, we set up a time for them to come visit a small business owner. And, and it's just so illuminating for them to see what a real small business looks like and see the faces of the people that they're employing. And oftentimes legislators go and visit a retail store on Main street, which is great, but there's also these Internet businesses that exist now that have a total different look to them, but are still contributing to the economy, are still hiring people, creating jobs, and it's important to see them as well. And you know, when they see that, it's great to be able to get our message out there in that way as well.

That's great. All right, so let me. I'll put you on the spot a little bit, and you can see if you can, how deep we can go with this. But so, you know, we love stories here too, and we tell a lot of them, and most of them are true, but at least the one Dave tells.

So as far as, you know.

As far as I know. That's right. That's right. Can you share? You can remove names? Of course. I want to do like that. But I'm sure you have some interesting tales about trying to connect business owners maybe with a politician that may be a little stiff and uptight and something that went sideways on you. Do you have anything like that you could share with our listeners that might be interesting?

Well, it's interesting. Whenever you have a small business owner or really anybody going up to Capitol Hill to visit with, you know, their member of Congress, you never know what kind of day that member of Congress is going to be having. You know, they can, they can be in a pretty bad mood based on what's going on in Washington, D.C. that day. So, you know, I think there are plenty of circumstances where you go in for, for a really casual meeting where you just want to talk about small business growth. And, and they've just had the worst day. And, and you can tell that this is just the last thing that they want to do. But, you know, the. Fortunately for us, we haven't had any real incidences where things have really gone sideways. And for the most part, there's been some really positive exchanges and just some great stories out there where members of Congress are hearing these things that PayPal can do for these businesses. That is really powerful.

That's cool. Those kind of stories, you guys share them up on the PayPal, the public policy website. You guys do?

Yeah, we have a, we have a couple of merchant spotlights that are live on, on the website that people can go and check out. And, you know, we're always looking to add to those. And obviously we, we just love to get as many stories out there as possible and, you know, featuring them, you know, in our work as well as, you know, we, we partner closely with our, you know, communications team to, to get some of these stories out there, you know, in the media and, you know, really just pushing this out there as much as possible.

Cool.

That's cool.

Well, if you've ever got somebody that has a great story they want to tell, I mean, obviously, you know, do your things with it, but feel free to send them our way. We love to have people tell stories here, too.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And then I was also going to ask you, does your group use, you know, social media in any way to promote, you know, I know you're promoting PayPal at the same time you're promoting, you know, the small business. Is there folks within your group that are out on social media presenting those stories and that kind of thing?

Yeah, so we do have a Public Policy, PayPal, Public Policy, Twitter handle that we are pretty active on, and we try to tweet out articles that go up on our site and the merchant spotlights when those go live. And then also just we love to use it for opportunities where we have these big events. So every year when we do our advocacy day, obviously we. We put a hashtag out there and get a bunch of social media interaction on that. And actually, during National Small Business Week, we hosted a panel up on Capitol Hill to share some of this small business research that I was talking about earlier. And one of the things that we were able to do with that was leverage our CEO Dan Shulman's Facebook page. And we actually, after the panel, went out to the steps of the Capitol building and did a Facebook Live segment, talking a little bit about, you know, small business issues and what we had discussed on the panel. So, you know, we love, you know, putting our message out there on social media. And, you know, obviously, the great thing about that is that we can, you know, get, you know, get some coverage of our small business advocates, too, and get their business out there.

Yeah, that's great. I mean, if you're listening to this, you know, you just don't know where things can lead. And there's, you know, PayPal does so many different things and hosts tons of conferences and, you know, either related to public policy or just, you know, trying to help your business. They really do want to learn more about your business, and the more you open up, the more you can really benefit from it. And I would just highly encourage you to, you know, get over there, sign up for the small business, small merchant advocacy, you know, delegation, get your name on there and just continue working with these guys if you're, you know, using PayPal or even if you're not, and you'll see a dramatic benefit. So it's great. So, okay, so what the best way for small business owners to learn more and then sign up for the SMA or SMAD is where so they can.

Go to paypal.com publicpolicy and there we have a join us tab where they can put in their information and put in their email address, and we will be in contact with them about putting together a case study and getting them involved.

That's great. That's awesome. Well, anything else you want to share with our listeners before we sign off here today? Paul?

You know, I think I would just, you know, thank you guys for having me on and getting the opportunity to talk about the work that we do. I am, you know, really passionate about these small business issues and small business advocacy and obviously love hearing about how PayPal can help businesses. So thank you guys. And you know, hopefully some of the small business owners out there will be in touch.

That's great. Yeah. We really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today and to, you know, standing up for small business owners. We love that.

Yeah. Thanks for doing what you do, man. It's good stuff.

Yeah. Great. Of course.

All right, folks. Well, you can visit everything that Paul's doing there@paypal.com publicpolicy. Of course, you can find us at businessshow co. And you can join our small business support group, as always, at BusinessShow Co, Facebook. And, Shannon, I think that's it. Off to leading the charmed life.

You got it. Get up there on Facebook and. And tell your story about PayPal. We want to have that conversation. Take it easy, everybody.