Interview with Winemaker Tony Biagi – Small Business Show 178

The Small business show episode 178 for Wednesday, July 4th. Happy Independence Day USA 2018. Greetings, folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co the show by, for and about small business owners here in Durham, New Hampshire. The Dave Hamilton.

And I'm Shannon Jean. I'm excited to be here again today. How are you doing, Dave?

I'm good, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good, very good.

Awesome. Awesome. Hey, as you know, Dave, I'm a big fan. I'm a big. I enjoy drinking an icy cold beverage, usually an ice cold beer, but I'm also a wine guy. My wife is far more sophisticated than I am, but we live kind of close to the Napa Valley and get an opportunity to go up there a lot, which is really cool about living in the Bay Area. And so a few weeks ago, I was a guest at a dinner up at a dinner at a wine pairing at a winery called Hourglass. It was awesome. Sat down at a cave and had this great dinner. And as my luck was habit, I to sit next to the winemaker who's explaining everything about the wines and some of the history. And of course, as I usually do, I just start hammering him away with questions. This was, I said, tony, you know, tell, tell me about this, tell me about that. And at the end of the dinner, the last thing I said is, hey, I'd love to have you come on.

The Small Business Show.

And really? He's like, yeah, I'd love to be great. So you know, Tony Biaggi, thanks for hanging out with us today. We really appreciate you coming on the Small Business Show.

Thanks for the invite. I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys today.

Yeah, yeah, it's cool. That was such a great dinner down there, man. And the food, you know, I was blown away at the end of the thing. We went around to buy some wine and the, the, and I'm quoting my fingers in the air here, you can't see that. But the kitchen that they prepared the food in, it was just like nothing. There was a little burner stove. It was incredible.

Wow.

It's a good job. So they did go ahead.

Yeah, they did a great job. So let's get started here. Tell us a little bit about your background. How did you get started in the wine making business? And you know, just tell us a little about yourself. Sure.

You know, I grew up born and raised in the Bay Area just like you and Shannon. And we were talking a lot about this. I knew very early that I didn't Want to be behind a desk. And I was very lucky to get recruited in sports to go to University of California, Davis. And my family's always been a lover of fine wines. So quickly I just realized my computer's dying as we're chatting here. You know, it's the bane of the new generation. So back to this. So, you know, my parents have always been really supportive of me. And, you know, my stepfather was very bohemian. We always had the best wines around the house. And my father. My parents divorced when I was really young, but we all got along very well. And in Lodi, so I was always around it and home wine, that is not commercial product like that. But I just knew that at the time I wanted to be a marine biologist. I wanted to be outside. I wanted to be, you know, just enjoying life and not be behind a desk. And I knew that's not what I was good at. So I was able to find, you know, through Davis. The first class I took was a winemaking appreciation class. A very, you know, it's a class that's, you know, the standard credits for people that would. What would they call it now? So if you're in, like, English, you take a science class and then that you get your credits for the other disciplines.

Sure.

And. But I took it. I took it under Ann Noble, who at the time and still is the creator of the wine aroma wheel. And she became my advisor. And I just fell in love with, well, no advisor. So I would go to her about what classes I should take and how to get through the courses and so forth. And she was able. She ended up helping me get my first job, truthfully, in the wine business, but just knew I had to be somewhere out. And I just fell in love with it. Wine is one of those. Those beverages that the more questions you ask, the more questions you have. And to this day, I'm still asking questions. I'm still learning. Learn a bunch of stuff every day about wine and. And how it works. It's just an incredibly fun, dynamic business and beverage.

That's awesome. So, okay, so you get involved in the wine, you know, making industry, get out there, you work for some, you know, some awesome wineries. And then something happened that kind of pushed you to go out on your own, you know, and consult for other wineries, come in and solve problems, and then, you know, work with. On your own label, you know, patria, if I pronounce it right.

Yeah, you got it.

Yeah. How did that happen?

Next step. It's funny, which came in the business is, you Take the French model, where you get a great. You get a Maitre du Che, or the person who runs the cellar for a major chateau. He stays there for 30 to 40 years and he retires. And I think I went into the business thinking that was the model, because it was the model. You get a great job in Napa Valley, a Duck Horner, a Shaffer or an Opus One, and you stay there 20 to 30 to 40 years. And that's really. When I was a young kid, really. My parents said, when you graduate from Colle, you know, we're not giving you any more money and you need to get health care. That was the recommendation that I got from my parents, but other than that. So I said, well, God, if I get this great job, work for this company for 30, you know, 20 to 30 years. And I think, you know, PlumpJack was. Was sort of what catapult me to sort of star stardom and fame. Such a great brand, such a great company. But I found I wasn't fulfilled enough, that I really wasn't getting everything that I wanted. I really wanted to craft my own wine. I really just felt like I need go to the next step. And so when I turned about 37, 38, I started formulating a plan to be able to take that next step. And it took me four to five years to get there. But I had a goal and I had a vision. And just now, after 10 years, do I find that coming to fruition. Truthfully, everything's sort of clicking now. And it's a huge step. It's a very scary step. I think most of us can say going from the corporate culture to starting our own company, but it's a step that all my friends who had done it already said, you know, you're going to be scared out of your pants for the first two or three years because you don't have that. That safety net. But you really aren't going to be rewarded, you know, and everybody talks about money, but I don't think you'll be rewarded emotionally and stimulated, you know, in that forever. And they're right, you know, I think in the end, people don't chase money. They'll let it chase you. And I think when I. When I started really doing my own thing and got my first consulting client, which was Hourglass, it just to me, I just became more and more sort of just awake and alive to. This is fantastic. So.

No, that's awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. And so. And then how about the difference, you know, doing going in to Work with someone else's winery versus then working on your own label. Like Patria is, do you have to apply yourself differently or do you have to just kind of push forward? Like, it's the same thing whether you're working for somebody else or I think.

You know, working for other people. You have to take the team into consideration. You become a team member. Where Patria is about me and myself and my. My desire to craft what I want to craft, you know. You know, Hourglass, I'm, you know, there are a couple situations where I'm the winemaker.

Yeah.

But I'm a consultant. But I work with. Is that in the end, it's not about me and building my name and reputation. It's about building the wineries I'm working for and to give them brand equity, you know, to build up their brand equity. Not the Tony Biaggi brand equity, it's the Hourglass brand equity or the Michi brand equity or the Senegal brand equity or the, you know, Lassiter brand equity. That's really my goal. And so you go into the different hat and a different mindset. You know, in for Patria, I'm driving the bus, you know, and I'm working on the engine and I'm painting the bus. Yeah. Whereas, you know, I was going to.

Say, without you, the bus doesn't exist either. Not only, you know. Right. You have to drive it, but it also has to exist. Yeah, exactly.

And. But whereas Claude, of all, you know, I consult there as well, and Ted Henry is a fantastic winemaker there. He's driving the bus. I'm just helping him drive it, you know, and he has questions for me, you know, that, you know, I have 26 years in the business, and that's a lot of experience. You've seen a lot of harvest and so forth that I. He might say, I don't get this. Or does this sound right to you? And I might say, oh, totally. Right. Yeah, it's exactly what I've seen. Or, you know, you thought that way. It's not about your ideas. It's about massaging them to make their decision and be comfortable. Because in the end, it is still a creative outlet and it is still a creation. And you want to make sure you're empowering the winemaker, his decisions, because in the end, he has to own them. Nobody else can. Right. So, yeah. You know, I always say, I was telling winemakers, if you're gonna go down with a ship, make sure you're going down with a ship, making your decisions. Because the worst Thing you can do is go down with a ship making decisions for somebody else.

That's a great piece of advice.

For.

Anybody that's in trouble, or, I mean, even, you know, even if you're not in trouble, make your own decisions. But. But, you know, it. It's. I guess it comes down to that, that. That advice of trust your gut, you know, listen to what everybody has to say. Of course, and especially those with some experience in whatever it is, or perhaps even in other disciplines, just listen. But then you got to trust your gut because it is you at the. In the end. Right. So that's good advice.

I mean, again, I mean, I don't think anybody's ever gone to their boss, said, well, Bob told me to do this. Well, and the boss is going to say, well, why didn't you do what you felt was best?

Right.

You know, you've got to go. You know, you've got to go in and just take culpability and say, I made this decision. It's mine. And I think in some instances, even if you're in a position of, I could lose my job here, I think your boss wants you to hear your thought process. And as a boss, if I heard someone say immediately, well, I listened to Chuck and Larry and Mo over there, and they said, do this. So I did it. I'm much more apt as a boss to say, well, I don't want someone who's not. Who's not thinking and making decisions on their own said, I made this decision here. My. Here's my thought process for their Boom. Okay, well, we made this decision. Let's clean it up. You at least took the chance.

You took the chance. That's it. And you're willing to, like you said, explain your thought process and defend it, at least from the standpoint of I thought it was going to work. Right. I realize it didn't. We, you know, we messed it up. That's fine. Let's learn from it. And that way. But. But, yeah, I would much rather have somebody, you know, taking that initiative, because I want them to take that initiative again. So if we can, you know, postmortem, whatever decision it was, and it's like, okay, great. Well, we won't do that exactly that way again. But the fact that you even did it on your own spells out that you're able to think critically. And that's a good thing.

Yep.

That's the most powerful thing, I think, you know, just from. My father was a director of HR for some large companies, and he's an Incredibly intelligent man. And his idea is. Yeah, to be able to think critically and act, don't be reactive, be proactive. And you know, you want those type of people on your team. The problem with those people is they're incredibly entrepreneurial and most of them want to leave and be their own person. Of course, if you can, yeah. But if you can mentor people. And again, I think we all, everybody who's listening, and I think you guys both agree that in the end, the hardest part of any job is we're all good at, at our jobs. It's people, it's managing people and really and truthfully empowering them to do the job and do the job well. And that's been the hardest part for me. And my growth as a manager is, you know, winemaking is all about you. And it's like the chef who yells and screams. That's how I used to be. But it had to be my way or the highway. I have to do it my way, my way. And what's really enabled me to just blossom as a consultant and a person is empowering the people to do the job. And they're so happy. I have a great team at the winers I work for and these people are empowered. I let them make their own decisions. There are, there are certain decisions that are billion dollar decisions that they don't get to make sometimes. And I inform them that, like this decision is above your pay grade. I have to make this decision, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to make a decision on how they stack barrels anymore. I'm not going to waste the time there because, you know, your intellectual property is not worth the $5. It's worth $50,000. And it's just, you have to learn that process. Some people are just innately born of that. Some people have to learn it, and I had to learn it.

So I would think that's really in a sensitive spot. Especially you come as a consultant. And now when you come into a winery, are they typically bringing you in to solve a problem, a specific problem they're having, or improve on something they're doing? You know, that's got to be very sensitive for you to step in and have to work with, you know, a group of people that are doing something that you're coming in to help, Right?

Yeah, it is very, it's very. It could be awkward, I think sometimes. Usually it's the management team that brings you in because they see deficiencies or they see problems that they want to fix. Usually it's to change qualitative decisions. Quality is very hard. That's the hardest thing in the world, in the business, because what you guys might define as high quality, I might not. Because inequality is what is it, you know, and so it's very awkward. Plus, these people are winemakers. I've been in their position and it's awkward to have to tell them, you know, I'm here to help you. But some people don't see this help and then that becomes a very antagonistic relationship. But usually if it gets to that point, the ownership sees that perhaps that a change needs to be made. Because if it, you know, if you can't see that you have issues. It's a wine, it's the wine business. I love doing what I'm doing. It's creative and it's artistic, but it is a business. I mean, in the end of the day, it's in a very expensive, expensive, capital intensive business. And you can be five to $10 million into a mess before you even know it can. High end Cabernet in Napa Valley, you have three, two vintages, you know. Yeah, that's, that's our winery. And then all of a. You're going, oh, I'm going the wrong way. And it's hard to turn around. I think you guys know in your businesses, once you, once that ship is turned the wrong way, it's, it takes so much time to get it turned back around.

It does, yeah.

Yep, yep.

And that, that, that Shannon, as an aside like that in and of itself would be a great topic for an entire episode or at least half an episode. Because. Yeah, because that's a thing. Right. It's really difficult, like you said, to turn that ship. Yeah, it's turn Right.

So, yeah, so if you come on on board, you're, you know, you're, you're coming into this winery, you're going to create something great. You know, has there been things that have surprised you? You know what surprised you the most? When you come in and you're like, wow, wait, happening or why are we doing this? I mean, is there, do you see consistent things over and over that have to be changed or is each, each situation that you come into unique is unique.

You're dealing with people and they all have their own needs and wants and, you know, past experiences. But I think the one thing I would, I try to act thing I do, I tell all my assistants and stuff, every decision I make, I have a purpose. And I can tell you exactly why I did it. I can give you experiences of why I've done it. Now, I can't explain to you sometimes why wine turned out the way it does. That's the mystical aspect of wine. It just is a natural beverage. And there is a bit of angel visits in there, and there is this sort of metaphysicalness that I cannot explain to you. But the reason I'm doing everything is not procedural so much as just, I have a reason for doing it. And I think a lot of times people just do it because they did it before. Well, that's not an answer to me. This is how we all. The wor. Answer, I think, in any winery is this is how we always do it in any business. Well, we've always done it this way.

Anytime somebody says that to me, that. That's the time to stop and say, okay, let's evaluate that and make sure it's still the right thing to do. Right? Like, as soon as that's the answer to me, that's a huge warning sign. Like, okay, wait a minute. Let's. Let's make sure that. That we're not making a mistake here.

Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, I think what people forget, too, is this is supposed to be fun. We got in this business, the wine business, because we are crafting something. We're in nature. I mean, I was just in the vineyard two hours ago, walking around a vineyard. That's what I do for a living. Yesterday I was. I was driving up on how Mountain with one of the co. Winemakers at a meet you with me. We were walking through vineyards. I look at him. I said, this is what we do for a living. Can you believe that? I mean, I never. I've never. I never take it for granted that I live. I feel Napa Valley, you know, people like to bash. California bashing is all the rage right now. But I think California is one of the most beautiful states. It's not one of those beautiful places in the world. And the fact that I get to work outside and I get paid well for that, I mean, I'm lucky. I count my stars every day. I mean, I'm very lucky.

So you get to live a charmed life.

I do. I do. Yeah. But it's still. You're working hard. I mean, harvest is. Oh, yeah, 110 days straight or so. No days off, you know, six to. Six to 12 hours a day, minimum. On a Sunday, you might only work six hours because you're visiting all the wineries, talking to people, seeing things, talking, hustling, talking, looking. It's always around there. Funny, I Mean, I've talked to people who got in the wine business from high tech or other very high paced businesses. They're all, get it, it's boring. But the business, you just don't feel the wheels churning. They're churning. The gears are moving here. You just don't know it. And it's funny, I read an article about the founder of intel and I got. Where was it? It was maybe in the New York Times about how everybody would come out from the East Coast. I think it was when he was working for Fairchild Semiconductor. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is how it worked. And all the guys from the east coast would come out in their suits and everybody would be in jeans and a T shirt and they were. The Fairchild guys were amazed that, wait, so you don't have to be in the office 10 hours a day in a suit and tie, but you could still get tremendous things done. It's one of those things. So yeah, that's sort of the way it works here. You know, it's. It moves and leaps and spurts. So.

Cool.

So there you go.

Shannon. We might have lost each other. I think we're all back.

Yeah, I think we're all back.

Cool. Yeah, a little WI fi, A couple angel.

I think my computer shuts down. I think that's what happened. I caught it again. So. Yeah. Anyways, go ahead. That's great.

So let me ask you a technical question about your business as well. So many things impact different kinds of companies and things beyond your control. But especially like in your business, you know, things that impact the quality of the product. Like, you know, the devastating fires that, you know, Napa Valley had experienced last year. You know, how do you adapt to the natural, you know, ebb and flow or the natural disasters that happen that, that impact the quality, I mean, the taste of what, what you're making.

That's a great question. I mean, last year, as you know, I think in Napa Valley got hit and got hit hard. But Sonoma Valley, I have one client in Sonoma Valley were decimated. I mean, Sonoma really got the brunt of it. And I'm not going to let. I know people who, I know personal people who've lost personal friends who lost houses in Napa. So I'm not going to try to downplay Napa. Napa was devastated, but Sonoma was just ransacked. And we had one winery that the fire burnt right through the property. And we lost probably all of sudden told 50 barrels to 100 barrels with the wine on the vine because we just couldn't pick, you know, we were going to pick it that week. That was the go week, sort of, you know, that's when you're playing with mother nature. You're looking at certain keys and signals the plant's giving you to go. And both the vineyard manager and I felt that week of the fire was the week to get the best wine off the vineyard and property. We made wonderful wines off of what came off before, but we really felt that was the heart of the vintage and we lost most of it. First and foremost, the first thing you have to do is realize this. Do not let one vintage ruin all your reputation. You can't do it, you know, it hurts to eat that and a lot of wineries can't. You know, maybe they just don't have the cash flow to do so. It is an, like I said, it's a, it's an incredibly capital intensive business. But you have to take a long term view in the wine business. You can't let that one, you know, well, I'm just going to bottle that smoked tainted wine because I need the money. If you do that, you will ruin your reputation with everybody. And it's hard to get back. It's incredibly hard to get back. So you just can't let that happen. And that's the first sign, first signal that I think or thing I would tell that you just can't do. Second thing is, yeah, Mother Nature, she's tough. I mean, we are still an agricultural business. People look at all the beautiful wineries we built. People come to Napoleon Valley for the, you know, three star Michelin restaurants. But this whole area, it starts and ends with agriculture. And you know, farming is, I mean, farming is what gives you the grapes, it gets you the wine that people come for. The wine they come for. The, you know, the food is directed by the wine. Everything in this valley is directed off agriculture, culture. And people think we often forget that. And she's tough, man. I mean, she takes no prisoners when she wants to do something. You're not going to stop three inches of rain. You know, you're hoping to make good decisions, but you're hoping to make good decisions around it. And you really have to pay attention to certain, certain things. Heat storms, you know, we're seeing a lot more hot heat storms than we've ever seen with global warming and so forth. It's not even global warming, it's global weirding, you know, to go from 112 degrees and then the next week you have almost frost, you know, that stuff we're not used to. So. But to really work more and more close, I'm looking at weather patterns. We're trying to figure stuff out, and then it becomes a game of hedging your bets. Do you take that big risk, the audacious risk, and let it all hang out there? 2011, for example, when I was at PlumpJack, had a storm come in, and I talked to the vineyard manager. We debated and we argued, and he actually felt that I pulled the trigger too early, that I panicked a bit. Happening is the only reserve wine we made that year was from that first pick, because the. What had happened as the storm stalled, it spiraled backwards on us, and we got more rain on that Monday than we weren't expecting, if the rain. So what I did is I said, okay, I hear what you're saying, and I respect. I love their vendor, man. He's an incredible. He's a guy born in Napa Valley, fifth generation. He's seen a lot of stuff. I said, okay, let's cut the pick in half that I want. I'll take half of it, and then we'll let the other half ride. Well, I hedge my bets. 50.

Sure.

That was the reserve. Everything else made the estate, nothing. We only had this. We have the smallest reserve other than one vintage, that it wasn't made, but we had something that was the hedge. I'm sort of saying you have to hedge your bet sometimes. And you can't always hit home runs. You have to hit some doubles and triples every once in a while, especially when the weather came, you know, comes into play. So that's sort of the stuff that we're trying to do. But, I mean, Mother Nature, she's tough, and you just gotta learn how to play with her and roll with her punches.

Now that makes sense. Okay, so let me jump. We always ask every guest this question because probably because I've made so many mistakes in my business career that I've learned from. But, you know, we're big fans of mistakes on the show here because we learn so much from them, at least in hindsight. What do you think has been the best mistake you've made in your business that has really taught you the most.

That you've learned from apprehension, not willing to take more risk, not leaving earlier, maybe not starting my business earlier, not believing enough of myself, even though everybody else believes in you? Those are probably the biggest mistakes. I can't give you a mistake, per se. I mean, I made mistakes every day. No, that's a good one.

Yeah.

This is. But, I mean, yeah, yeah. Not alone. We've had quite a few people, you know, articulate that in different ways, but. But that's. I. I think that's the biggest mistake anyone, any one of us can make is. Is just not acting soon enough. Yeah. No. No one ever says, I wish I had waited to start my business. You know, it's just. It never happened.

Totally. Yeah. So 100. I mean, yeah. You know, for certain situations that I was in, I waited a little bit, but I should have taken sooner. I had the skill set. I knew that I had support. I think it's about believing in yourself and just taking the jump. I think that's the biggest one. And not believing in myself to take the jump sooner.

Now, that's great. That's a really powerful message. And like I said, you're not alone. So along that way, we also talk a lot about measuring success, cash, obviously, and profit. But. And I think you alluded to it earlier, there's a lot more to it. What's been the yard stick that you've come up with beyond those monetary rewards that propels you and keeps you going forward to grow your business?

Well, it's fine. I'll give you two. I'll give you one first. I'll give you a great story about the first. I mean, there's a wine in the valley called Harlan, one of the most famous wineries in Napa Valley, and Bill Harlan. And I looked at Bob Levy as a mentor. And, you know, I think I really wanted to be Harlan all my life. You know, I really wanted to be Harlan. Harlan. Harlan. I had to be. And I was at PlumpJack, which we're in Harlan. Harlan is in the Appalachian called Oakville. So it's Plump Jack. So, of course, I think I need to be Harlan. We're going to do everything to be Harlan. And the reality is, one day I said to myself, is this working? Why don't we just be PlumpJack? Why don't we make the best wines at PlumpJack? Why don't I stop chasing Harlan? Why don't I start chasing the quality that's inherent in Plump Jack? And it freed me up to make some, I felt, the best wines I ever made at PlumpJack. Because I really stopped worrying about what everybody else was doing and trying to worry, well, what's the best for this business? And don't really worry about what everybody else is doing. I mean, listen to other techniques and topics and see the success they're having, but really focus on what drives you and what's really going to drive the best for PlumpJack. And that was a huge lesson for me. And that really sort of took me to the second one is I'm lucky to be friends with some of the most successful people in the wine business currently, you know, working with either in tasting rooms or tasting groups with, you know, the consultant to the stars or having a best friend who's a consultant to the stars. And for years I wanted to, you know, oh, God, I can't wait to be that person. And I think in the last five to six years, I really just accepted my role and who I am and what my strengths and weaknesses are. And the reality is they gave me advice very young. You know, don't chase money. It'll chase you. Chase happy, chase what you love. Money will find you. And I'm very lucky to have parents that said that to me because I chased being a winemaker my whole life. And the second then I let off of it that I need to be the best winemaker in FY. I needed 100 points. I need this to being I'm be the best winemaker I can be and be secure within myself. And it's rewarded me over time and time again. And yeah, guess what? Money does follow. You know, fame does follow, but it was never about the money. And of course, you get caught up in that. You know, you want a nicer house, you want nicer cars, you want all these different things. It's funny, I think you listen to a lot of these type of talks, you read these type of books, and everybody has the same story. It's. You don't really find your inner happiness until you give that all up and just say, I'm going to do what I want to do and fall in love with what I do. And then. So that would probably be the second step for me is just to sort of accept who I am and where I am in the business, I think. And I'm a big fish in a big pond, and I like that. I don't need the biggest fish in the biggest pond. I don't need the big fish in a little pond. I always jokingly say to my parents, people get up in restaurants to shake my hand, and I still get up to shake other people's hands. You know, that's just sort of how it works. So, you know, I'm comfortable with my. I mean, I really become comfortable in my own skin. And so that's really what it comes down to. Cool.

That's great, man.

Yeah, that's great. So what's in the future for you, you know, what's the next steps for your business? So when we have you back on the show in a couple years, we can call you to the mat and say, hey, did you get this stuff done? You said you were going to do, you know, where do you.

Just focusing on the business I work with to really grow them and make the best wines possible for them. And then from Petria, I just want to get to a certain size and be comfortable there, have good distribution, have great representation and then just really enjoy it. I don't actively look for new cl. They seem to find me and I tend to be able to pick and choose who I work with and really it becomes relationships and people. Can I work with these people? Can they work with me? Does my management style mesh with theirs? And so I'm never really looking to build my business any more than it is. I really believe that I'm much more of a mentor style winemaker. I work in good with teams and I want to come in and be a part of a team. If I'm going to take on new clients, I don't really want full responsibility. I want to help mentor people to the next level. And that's my goal, is to find maybe some more clients like that, that mentor to help them get to the next level or even just come in and audit what they're doing now and say, have you ever thought of this? Have you ever thought of that? To be that type of consultant? I mean, consultant means so many things. I think every. You guys laugh at this. I think everybody says they're cons. You know, I, you know, I'm a consultant, I'm a consultant. What does that mean?

Right?

You know someone else that goes, oh yeah, this guy's a consultant. Mall, huh? Who is he? I mean, I've been in the business 24. I never heard of this guy, but he's a consulting winemaker. Oh, okay, Interesting. All right, you know, that's fine. It's each his own. And I'm just like, oh, okay, you know, you have sales consultants, you have marketing, you have digital marketing, social media consultants now, you know, and, and so I guess my job is to more come in and help, help and mentor a team to say, where, where, what do you want to achieve and where do you want to go? So, and here, here's a, here's how I think you should go. My, you know, my opinion you're paying me for, here it is. You know, how do you want to achieve that?

Yeah, that's great. Some, some really great quality answers here for, you know, folks that are on their journey and whining, you know, I know it's easy to learn about, you know, Tony. If you Google Tony Biaggi, you'll find some great articles about what he's done. Is there a way in particular somebody wanted to get in touch with you, Tony, or learn more about you that you'd recommend that they look up?

Sure. So Petrillo is sort of built hand to mouth. I mean, whenever I had enough money, I did some more things. And now I've gotten the business of first and foremost, foremost. I wanted great grapes, great barrels in a nice package, you know, bottle cork, foil. After that I waited till I started having some cash flow. Now I'm designing the website. I used to believe in the old school adage. Well, I used to believe in the old school adage. I wanted to do old school mail mailing list. You know, just come through the mail and look at it. I now realize if a website, if a business doesn't have a website does. It's like the tree falling in the forest. Do you hear it?

Yeah, yeah. People, people need to be able to type your name into Google and find you. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Back to the earlier question. That would probably be the biggest mistake allowing myself this sort of romantic view of what I remember the wine business being, knowing it's not totally applicable now. I'll tell you one thing, I guarantee you, when I'm back in 10 years, I'm going to give you a prediction. Now, the next great businesses are going to be the ones that learn how to access those old school feelings of mail. Handwritten letters. Harlan does a wonderful job of it. Now, those are the ones that are going to be sort of. That's going to be the new hot thing in 10 years, you know, it's gonna be, wow, did you hear about this business that only does business through the mail? You know, it's gonna be this idea, and it sounds funny, but it's true, you know, what's old is new again. It's kind of like the field of dreams where here come the cars back to the baseball field at the end of the movie. Because they all wanna feel young again. They all wanna go back to what it felt like. And I think that's sort of what's gonna happen. But I don't know. I'm not in that position to do it.

I don't know about that. I'm a romantic, right, for all that stuff. But, but I don't think we can take the. And I'm certainly speaking on behalf of myself, but also I think by proxy for our listeners who are driving in their cars, shaking their fists at this moment. Right. Like, I don't know, man, I would love that world that you just described, but I don't.

I love both. I mean, I don't think it's. Your Internet's ever going to go away.

Yeah, I don't think you can put the Internet back in the box. Right. Like it's. I think think. I think you're right though. I just don't think it's exactly like you describe. I think it's people that learn how to. How to. Or figure out how to leverage that. That romanticism of. Of the sort of the kitschy feel of personalized stuff that shows up for you while still really kind of running their business on the web and being accessible and all that. I think it's a. I think it's a blend. So I don't think personally, I think it's just. I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

Yeah, I think person's going to discover how to meld the two together. So if you say the biggest mistake. I should have had a website. I should have had a website up and running two, three years ago. It's my stupidity and it's just my. Not my stupidity. It's just I felt something that just doesn't exist anymore. So.

Yeah, totally, totally.

But if people want to find, you know, Patrio, where can they buy it at? You know, search online or find.

You can definitely buy it online. You can definitely reach out to me, you know, Tony patriot wines.com and do that. And then the website will be up in the next month or two. We are actually building it right now. You know, I'm just not talking about it for sure. Sounds like a great idea. And then, you know, definitely can reach me, you know, on. On that email address I just gave you. I'm on instagram@patriawines.com Patria Wines people can follow along there. Just sort of my journey. I tend to do a lot of, you know, some. Some because Patria is me. So I tend to have some personal. As a lot of the wine stuff, it's just sort of fun. I think, you know, the brand is me and it's my identity. Nothing too crazy on there. And I love heavy metal. So everyone's will be on the album cover of heavy Metal or I love to eat and drink as well.

So that I think it also goes to what you talked about earlier capturing something. I think a lot of what we're all talking about is story and story based. You know, where people love a good story and you've got a great one and your journey is part of, you know, the wine. When someone's opening that bottle up and they're like, wow, you know, I heard this guy and I read this article and now I'm gonna taste what he's put his passion into to create. So I think that's part of what you talked about earlier.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, the great, the best book, you know, we're winding down here, but for anybody to really understand it is the Simon Sidekick book. Why not what? It's probably one of the most powerful books I've ever read. It sort of culminates on how I market wine. And I think how the most successful brands in the wine business market the wine. You know, tell your story, don't have to bash anybody else. Tell your story. Tell how you got there and have the tribe come find you. And, you know, that's what I think the most powerful customers come from. And almost your evangelistic customers that in the end are just almost bleed patria, you know, that just want to tell their friends about it because they're invested in it. They're invested in the story, they're invested in time. But for anybody who's never read it, why not? What. Or go on the TED talk that he gives about it, it's an incredibly powerful concept of how things are done. Done, you know, and how especially marketing is done. And that's it. Because in the end, if you invest with someone's story, you're investing in them. It's not, I'm not trying to sell you. This is my wine. I got 94 points. It's got 40% new wood. It's really, you know, it's 3.4 ph you really well here, I'm telling you, I've been at plumpjack, I've been at cade. I learned a lot about winemaking from the mentors. I've been mentored. I love Napa Valley and fourth generation Bay Area. Do you want to buy my wine? You know, and some people say yes, some people say no. You know, but if the people say no, maybe it doesn't appeal to them. Them, it's not the story, maybe the wine doesn't appeal to them, you know, but yet they still appreciate you. Well, that's key.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So you're buying the person. It's always personal relationships. I mean, I, I do business I'm lucky enough to. In my business, I deal with a lot of different vendors, and 9 times out of 10 a. It's the product. I know it's great, but even more so, there's a lot of great product out there. It's. Who am I dealing with if the, if the, if the shit hits my language, I shouldn't say that, but if the poop hits the fan, will they back. Will they support their. Will they help me clean the mess up? Because a lot of people are willing to sell you stuff, stuff anybody is. But when it hits the fan, who's there to help you clean the mess up?

Yeah, that's.

That's who you want to deal with in the business. And that's, you know, again, that's sort of how I try to do business. So it's, it's personal, it's relationships, so.

Makes sense. Well, you know, we really appreciate you, you know, giving us some time today and sharing, you know, your message, your journey. It's. It's some really powerful stuff here. I know our listeners are going to love it and, you know, we wish you the best and we'll check in from you time and time, time, time from time and see how you're doing.

With me in Napa Valley. Get up here.

There you go.

Drink some good wine.

Sweet. Have a great day. Thanks.

Thanks so much, Tony. This has been great.

Thank you, Tony.

Thanks for listening. Feedback at business show if you want to find us tony@patriot wines.com. if you want to find Tony, we'll see you next week.