Mitigating Employee Apathy

Business brain, episode 514 for Wednesday, January 10, 2024. Greetings, folks, and welcome to Business Brain, the show where we take a few topics, we dissect them, we crunch them, we analyze them, we dismiss them, we embrace them all so that we can each tune our business brains together every single episode. Sponsors for this episode include a new sponsor, gosquaredaway.com, which empowers highly educated military spouses to be your trusted remote executive assistants. And shopify.com business brain is where you're gonna go to sign up for your $1 per month trial period and take your business to the next level. We'll talk more about those in a little bit. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And out here in Lafayette, California, I'm Shannon Jean. How goes it, man?

It keeps going. That's the only thing it can do. I mean, like, as we discussed last episode, I just, like, I got to keep my foot on the pedal. That's really what it is.

That's perfect. So before we get into the main topic, which I'm definitely interested in talking.

About apathy and employee.

Yeah, I think it's a big deal. I want to share a tip that I've been having some great success with standing out.

Okay.

So I'm. I'm trying to build my fan base. Not my followers, but my fans on the X platform, Twitter. And there's some. It's amazing. It's like a master class of any topic you want, you know, once you filter out a lot of the garbage and stuff. And. And I'm. I'm way late to this party.

Yep.

And that's okay.

But I'm here Second best day is today. That's it.

Yeah. I started with 30 fans. Now I've got 540 over last few months. So it's great.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Congratulations. That's freaking awesome. Wow.

And one of the ways that I've, I've learned is to interact with larger accounts that talk about things that I'm interested in. Business success, building wealth, that kind of stuff, and just living a charmed life like we talk about here. So I always make the comment on this show or I often make a comment on the show is that, oh, I hear something, and I'll say, man, that's the T shirt right there.

Yes.

And it's a quote. I just. I don't know why, but I have this vision in my head of wearing this T shirt with some quote that whether it's live Your charmed life. What's on your to dead list? All these little snappy sure, sure quotations.

The sound bites.

Yeah, sound bites. So I started hearing these sound bites in the. On these larger accounts on X. And so I said the same thing. I said, man, that's the T shirt right there. And people started commenting like, I would buy that shirt. I would do that shirt. So, of course, I went up and I got a template for a T shirt, but what I did was built a shirt that somebody's holding up, so you just see their hands.

Okay, got it. Blank.

A blank shirt. I. I'll share a link in the show notes for a couple of examples if somebody wants to see it. But I would take that quote that they said. Like, this one guy who I follow, Lucas, he has this comment that just resonates with me. It was, have the courage to suck at something new.

And, oh, yeah, that's what it takes.

It takes courage. Right? And I'm like, that's a T shirt. So I put his quote on the T shirt and, you know, with his. His Twitter handle handle underneath of it.

Yeah.

And that was my response to him. And it got thousands of views and likes and engagement. And I'm like, huh, that's interesting. So I started doing it more. There's some other accounts that I follow, and I would be like, oh. And I wasn't doing it just to do T shirts, but when I read something that really resonated with me, I was like, dude, that T shirt, beyond the shirt. And my response would be the shirt. And so you need to put your.

You need to hold up a black T shirt and have somebody take a picture of you so that your face is on this.

Because that's a great idea, you know.

Because that way, it's you promoting them. That's, you know, social proof, all the great things. They're gonna forward that along. You don't even need to put your name on there, because they're gonna forward your tweet along your post or ever supposed to call, whatever.

Yeah.

And. And. And so it'll have your name, but then your face just starts getting in people's heads.

Yeah, that could be dangerous.

Yeah, well, you know, that's. That's on them. Yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah, it's worked great, and I've enjoyed it, and, you know, it's definitely made me stand out, and it's great. So just got to think of something different, whether it's the way you respond, how the words that you use. You know, you got to brand yourself Right. And whether it's, you know, whatever you do. So that just the tip. Love to hear how you make yourself stand out. Feedbackusbrain show.

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Yeah, I didn't say it with those fancy words.

Well, you know, that's how it works. Yeah, yeah.

But I always try to surround myself with people that are smarter than me, so that's clearly what's happening here. So the apathy thing is something that I've dealt with my whole life. And every, every business, you know, you're going to have some people that are just jacked up and passionate about their jobs. And, and those, those people are great and you need them on your team and they kind of rise to the top, you know, like the cream. And so. But on the, on the other side, there's always going to be people in your companies that are just showing up for work and are hard to get excited about what they do. And so I thought it would be worth a discussion on how to minimize that or mitigate that kind of apathetic attitude. And I'm just here to collect. Not, not necessarily. I'm just here to collect a check. That doesn't mean they don't do a good job. Sure. And maybe part of it to recognize is that as someone that's like trying to create this great culture, I'm looking for feedback from them that maybe is not necessary. Where I'm Thinking man, they're not as excited about me and this because there's a fine line between being an entrepreneur and talking your crazy talk to. And when I say crazy talk, I mean we're going to take over the world and let's start a new business. That's a great idea. But, but when you talk your, your crazy entrepreneurial talk to some employees, it scares the crap out of them.

Of course they don't want to hear it.

They don't, they don't think like we do. Right.

Right.

And so it's not better or worse, it's just, just difference.

Yeah, it is. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how, you know, there's some techniques that we, we got to get out there and I, and I want to obviously want to hear, you know, our listeners feedback. Feedback at BusinessBrain show for what you've used to get your employees more excited about their job and what they're doing because that it comes across, it translates to their interactions with, with your customers for sure.

Yes, yes. Yep.

So what are those ways?

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I mean I have some ideas too. Well, I mean one of them is keep a conversation going with your employees. Don't you know, you, I, I try not to micromanage. Right. My people because that's one way of, of creating this apathy. In fact, it's, it's a great way of driving people out. But I've found that that can backfire too by going too far in the other direction where I'm leaving someone kind of to their own devices too much. I hire independent people. I want people to be motivated to just get things done and focus on results and all of those things. Right. Because I, it's just, it's how I work best. I am not a great manager. So, and I know this, so I need people that, that will drive themselves. But I have made the mistake of being too far removed and not fueling those people and, and, and then causing that apathy or you know, a sense of, of, of being lost essentially. So yeah, that's, that's one of, one of the tricks that I, I use. Yeah. What about you?

For me, I think it's building that, that sense of it's not a family. That analogy is not right.

Yeah.

But it is the I love the team analogy. We're gonna, we're gonna build this high quality team. We're gonna put the best players in each role.

Yep.

And I want people to be, to look forward to coming to work. And maybe the reason isn't just the work Itself, but it's the team and the people and the support they get.

Yes.

And I think part of that is. I've talked about it for years. You know, it's the Friday barbecue. It's the hey, I'm going to cook breakfast for everybody today, or it's also having. And here's a fine line comment, but it's knowing more about your employees.

Yes.

Not just, hey, hey, great to see you, go to work. It's, how's your kid? And, oh, did they make the football team or the cheerleading squad, or are they, oh, what college are they getting into? But being genuinely interested in them, I think helps eliminate some of that apathy and gets them more invested in the work.

Absolutely. Yeah. You, because you, You. You then create this foundation of things that you can talk with them about. That's not just work. And so people love to talk about themselves. We all do. Here we are nine years later.

We are.

But if you don't express an interest in your employees, you know, personal lives, and you don't want to overreach, obviously.

That'S a fine line.

But if you don't express that interest, that communicates to them potentially that it's not okay to share about themselves. And one way to make people feel really apathetic is to shut down every avenue that they have to to get joy. And people get joy out of sharing their own stories. And so opening that door up in, like you said, in a genuine way where you're actually interested, a. It makes things more enjoyable for your team, but it also make things more enjoyable for you. You get that human connection. And, and, and, and that's kind of the thing that I made this mistake early on. I, I made it clear to my team. I'm like, look, I don't, you know, whatever we've each got going on at home, you leave that at home and we just worry about the work. And I couldn't have been more wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

We're all impacted by what goes on outside of work.

Of course. Yeah. And I remember I had. I had somebody come to me, and they're like, look, I know we're not supposed to, like, talk about our home life, but I've got some stuff going on. I'm going to, you know, is there any way I can get an advance on something? And it was like, oh, my God. And that was my moment where I realized what a mistake I've made. And, like, my reason for making that decision and making that a policy was because I didn't want to hear about Your troubles and all of this stuff. That was my thought. But it's that fine line. Right.

And I think that the first way to do that or a one of the ways to do it is to create opportunity for them to share in a casual environment.

Yes.

And the way you have to do that is, you know, whether it's the thing you do on the Friday where, like, I used to love to cook for everybody and I get the barbecue out. Okay, great. I'm gonna make this. I make that. But it's low stakes shopping. Low stakes. And I would keep my mouth shut.

Yes.

And listen. And I'd hear everybody talking back and forth, and I'd pick up that, oh, so and so's mom is maybe ill or, you know, so and so's going on this trip, and you just kind of, kind of file that stuff away. So later when you're walking in to the customer service department, you can, hey, how's your mom? Is it okay? Do you need any time. Do you know, whatever.

Yep.

Or, hey, when are you going on this. I heard you going on this trip. I don't see it on the calendar, but.

Yeah, yeah. Should we talk about that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we get that out there? And, but that. And it can't just. It's not just you because it needs to also be from your managers because, you know, you may not, as the business owner, be interacting with these folks that much.

Yeah.

Right. Hopefully you're working on your business, not in it as much every day.

Yep.

And so it all kind of comes. Goes downhill. And, And I'm thinking about this apathy thing that might be the best way is making them feel connected to your business beyond. Yeah. You need to give them the training and the tools, and that's great. And I love going like. One of the questions I always used to ask is I would just walk into the tech room now. We were, you know, had a bunch of technicians, and I would say, what do you need? What do you need to. To. To make your job better? Now, I'm not saying you got to increase productivity. You gotta. This kind of that. It's like, is there a tool that.

How can I help?

Yeah, how can I help? Is there a tool? Is the bench not set up the way you. What, what is it? And to try to create an environment for them that they could own. And I, I. We got lots of. We did increase productivity.

Yes.

Because they felt that they were being listened to and not like, I got to work with this crummy tool or whatever. And they won't pay for a new this. And we used to use this heat gun and it's not like a blow dryer. It's a very high end heat gun that has a little needle type, you know, orifice that comes out.

Yeah.

And you have to use it in when you're taking apart stuff or even putting things back together.

Okay.

And I noticed for a long time we only had a couple and I walked because they're expensive, they're like 7, 800 bucks. And I, I walk into the lab and it's like, why is there like what's going on? You know? And for when we were of a certain size, you only needed a couple. But as the business changed and we got more into glass business where there was tons of adhesive, of course we needed more of them. And I just went to, I was like, well, we're going to buy one for everybody. You know, I don't care if we need 25 or 30 of them, we're going to find a way to get them. And that changed the whole dynamic because they could feel independent and they weren't like waiting on it. We invested in them.

Yeah, I find I have, with things like that, I have to. It's easy for the team to presume that the status quo is how things will be and they need to operate within the status quo. And there is some truth to that. Right. Like you can't just change everything every day to accommodate whatever the needs of, you know, of that particular task are. The problem with that is it doesn't need to remain that way forever. You know, today we need to get through with the status quo. So let's, this is what we have. Here's the problem at hand. We got to solve it with, with what we, we got to deal. But that doesn't mean that we always have to deal. And you know, we've got a lot of custom software that we use internal to our business. Filemaker databases and web based software that we've built and you know, all these tools and I find that I have to sometimes really engage because I ask, is there anything, any points of friction? Oh, no, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Like, okay. And then I just like sort of watch over somebody's shoulder, talk to them about their workflow. It's like, oh my gosh, if I had to do that every day, the, the next thing I would do is fix the tool so that it operates in a much smoother way for you. Let me do that. And, and you know, I, in Our businesses. I have the opportunity because I'm a nerd. Like I can make some of those tweaks myself or I can make them happen pretty quickly. And I'll do that with someone. Like they'll be working in our FileMaker database and like jumping through three hoops where I know they could jump through one. And I'll be like, hang on, wait, wait five minutes. And then, okay, try this now. And I'll be like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. That little bit of time invested a helps mitigate employee apathy, but it also sends the message of, hey, some of the things that are friction points in our day can go away, but you've got to speak up about them.

Well, that's also a testament to once in a while you should step back in and do some of those jobs. Right?

Yeah.

And so you can see the steps they go through. Because what worked at one point in time and that now as your business continues to change, you know, it stuff never stays the same.

No.

And you're using to. I could take example after example. You know, the shipping system that allowed you to ship, you know, 200 orders a day is not the same shipping system to ship 2,000 orders a day.

Correct.

It'll drive you nuts.

It'll drive you nuts.

But you got to know that your employees often won't speak up. And especially if you're hiring quickly and trying to fill your warehouse with people to ship those 2,000 orders, they're not going to come in and say, hey, I've got a better way to do it. Or you know, they're going to be like, this is the way they told me.

This is the way I've always done it. I just got a deal.

Yeah, gotta deal with it. So stepping back in, so, so yeah, in, you know, recognizing their humanity, really important part. Look at that, I got a thumbs up bubble. That's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty. I see it. Most of the listeners, in fact, all of the listeners won't see it. But, but if they're watching the videos that we're putting out on YouTube, they will.

Oh yeah, the listeners, of course they would see it. But anyway, so it's, it's important to recognize that it starts with us. It's not the employees fault. They're empathetic about your business. It's your fault.

It's your fault.

Your supervisors, your managers and your processes and your crummy systems, if you even have any. So figure that out. Engage with them, learn about them. I used to love. It's the wab, you know, walking around the block. Grab an employee and go walk around the block and talk about what's bugging you. Yeah, get them out of the, of their, you know, their seat, whatever they're doing and go walk around the block and say, hey, I've been thinking about this and I've noticed that we've, we're stumbling here. Our customer, sir. Our quality has gone downhill here. Let me what do you think and how do we fix this? It works out great. So making people feel like they're listen to is another big one.

Makes a huge difference. Tell us what do you have? Feedbackusinessbrain show Let us know what works for you, what doesn't work for you, what mistakes have you made? What have you learned from those mistakes? Again, feedbackusbrain show make sure to check out our sponsors, gosquaredaway.com and shopify.com businessbrain and keep on living that charmed life. We'll see you on Friday.