Nuhuel Hilal, Founder - Iris Tattoo

Business brain, episode 611 for Wednesday, January 1st, copyright law day. Oh, yeah, by the way, Happy New Year 2025. Greetings, folks, and welcome to Business Brain, the show where we take a few ideas, we ask a few questions, we solicit a few ideas, and we use them to help tune our business brains each and every time we get together so that we all have a little bit better shot at leading those charmed lives that we love. LegalZoom.com with promo code BBSHOW is our sponsor for today. That gets you 10% off any business formation product. We'll talk more about that in a little bit. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And I'm Shannon Jean. I'm still in Northern California and I'm excited that we have a guest today.

Yes.

Is a business that I know nothing about, which is perfect. And I don't know how it works. I don't know the whole thing. I know nothing. So I'm starting from Tabula Rasa is where we're starting from today. And I'm happy to have Noel Hilal with us from Iris Tattoo and Piercing, and I'm here to learn. How you doing, Noel?

Shannon. Dave. This is honestly such a great honor to be here. Thank you for having me.

Oh, yeah, we're happy to have you here, man. I've been, you know, Noel and I connected on X and go back and forth talking and everything. It's like, man, I gotta have you on the show because I'm fascinated with this business model. I don't have any tattoos. I always wanted to get all my company logos tattooed on my body, but my wife kind of put the kibosh on it. I don't know why.

Really?

That still may happen.

Yeah, it could happen. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you know, young men here, so. Right.

So I got my kind of man who asks for forgiven.

I definitely am that kind of man. Yes. I definitely am that. But I'm, you know, I've been married for 31 years and I know how, you know, things go. And thought, well, I've just. Just mention it casually and see. And. But we'll see.

I got my first tattoo with my wife. You know, we got our wedding rings tattooed on.

Oh, that's killer. Yeah, we love tattoos. We watch. I think I've watched every, you know, show from the Inked with this and that and then the nightmare shows where they do that.

We.

We're both very fascinated with the I love and respect of it, but how do you make a business out of it? So give us the. Tell us about your. Tell us about Iris and how it works.

Okay. We were actually born out of the. This necessity that I. I saw. I. I used to get tattoos all the time when I was younger. I still do. And going to a tattoo shop, I always joke that all the preconceptions you may have about tattoos and tattoo shops are all true. You know, you. You get there and it's either the artist forgot that today's your appointment, or the place is not tidy, or, you know, the music's too loud. And I thought, you know, I would gladly pay more for somebody to curate my experience, because it's not just about the process of getting ink in your body and just. Just out of a crazy idea. And just like you mentioned, I was watching the Ink Masters show one night with my wife, and I told her, you know what? I'm going to have my own tattoo shop. And she was the first one of a long list of people telling me, you're completely crazy. And I just did it. I didn't know that there was a business behind this. I just wanted to have, you know, like, a site thing to be able to provide what I thought was lacking in the market.

Sure.

This kind of conversations, you know, market, business, they don't really happen in the tattoo world. And it just started like. Like a crazy little thing that I knew nothing about, and it completely turned our worlds upside down. I mean, I can bore you with the whole story.

No, no, we're going to talk about it.

I'll let you guys leave.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, this is great.

This is fascinating to me because I have. I do have tattoos. I have three of them. One with my wife and one with each of my kids, and they're matching. And so it's a wonderful thing. And I've been through it. And just looking at your website, the storefront of whatever you're showing on your website here looks absolutely nothing like any tattoo shop I've been to. And I've been to places that I felt okay in. I mean, they're fine, they're clean, they're friendly, all of those things, but they don't look like this. Yours looks like an upscale boutique.

It looks like the Apple Store. Yeah. You know, I described it to my daughter. I was explaining who we're having on the show, and she's interested in tattoos, and I sent her the link to Iris, and I was like, yeah, it's like the Apple Store of. Of tattooing. And that the experience part, like you mentioned, is spot on.

Yeah. We always Say every business is the customer service business here on Business Brain. But your description, your accurate description of tattoo shops means that not every tattoo shop sees. Most tattoo shops don't subscribe to that principle. And you do.

It's not, it's not that they don't. They just, they just don't see it as a first line necessity.

That's fair.

As long, as long as you're clean, as long as your art is good, clients are going to come. What they don't see is that sometimes they, they leave out of the, of the potential clients. Everybody who doesn't know that and is afraid to walk into a dark studio.

You got it? Yeah, that's it. That's like, you know the feeling and making it welcome and it's well lit and bright and so. Okay, let's talk about the nuts and bolts of the business a little bit. So you have this, you know what I would consider high end space. Is it a premium? Do you have to charge a premium to cover those things? And are these folks that work for you, the artists, are they your employees? Are they contractors? How is that different than what I would say, regular tattoo, or is it?

Okay, well, first question is pretty easy. We are more expensive than the most. I'm not saying. Oh, great. The most by how much?

Like by how much double. 30% on minimums.

I would say even four times.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's great.

But that's so smart.

Premium tattoo. Yeah. Because if you were 30% more expensive, people would just go to the other place. But four times, people stop and ask why.

I love that.

Yes, correct. We also, I mean, the story of tattoo artists is amazing. And these kids, I mean, I've had some artists with me for 11 years, since we started.

Wow.

Okay. So I say these kids, they're as old as me, but these people have so much invested into doing their art and their work that they just can't think of everything else. Everything else is white noise. Right. So I see them, I see my artists as my internal clients. They're my clients too.

Yeah, I love that.

You got, think about it like, like a, like a sports team. My talent, I got. So I make sure that I curate an experience for both the person getting the tattoo. Oh, the tattoo artist. And that's what we call it, a bridge. We're a bridge.

Oh, that's a great concept. So not only are you, you know, you're managing for the customer experience, but you're trying to attract top talent. Right. That also wants a, maybe a different experience. Right, yeah. That's fascinating. And are these folks employees or the contractors?

The artists are contractors.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, that, yeah, that's really cool. I love that, the idea. And are you constantly recruiting because folks, you know, these artists come and go or these like you talk about somebody's with you with 11 years, where do you keep the talent?

Well, how do I keep the talent? It's at the cost of my own health. Because of course, dude, they are, you know, those, those, those, those zookeepers that they had to take care of the pandas and they put one in place and the other one fold. Artists when they're young, they don't realize that, you know, life goes on and they're gonna want houses and cars and. Yeah, and stability. I provide them with stability. They have.

Got it. Got it. Is that what they find? Yeah. And, and have you found over time that's the most valuable thing to retain them is that stability?

Yes. Well, yes.

Now that makes sense.

High standards.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I have thoughts about this that I want to dig into. I do want to talk about our sponsor here because starting a business as we're talking about right now is exhilarating until you hit that wall of legal paperwork and the sticker shock of traditional legal services. But guess what? You don't have to choose between keeping your dream alive and keeping your wallet intact. That's where our sponsor, LegalZoom comes in. LegalZoom makes launching, running and protecting your business easy and affordable. Whether you're forming an LLC, incorporating or just need answers from a seasoned attorney, LegalZoom has your back. No overpriced consultations, no endless hours deciphering legalese. Just straightforward help from a trusted partner. Over the past 20 years, millions of entrepreneurs have turned to LegalZoom to take their businesses from idea to official. It's time to join them and start living that charmed entrepreneurial life. Launch, run and protect your business. To make it official today@legalzoom.com and then use promo code bbshow to get 10% off any LegalZoom business formation product, excluding subscriptions and renewals. Get everything you need from setup to success@legalzoom.com and again, use promo code bbshow so that you get the deal and they know where you came from. And that's good for all of us. LegalZoom.com use promo code BB SHOW. And as a disclaimer, LegalZoom provides an access to independent attorneys and self service tools. LegalZoom is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice, except where authorized through its subsidiary law firm, LZ Legal Services, LLC. And our thanks to to LegalZoom for sponsoring this episode. And Noel, what you're describing here. I'm a musician. I'm a drummer. Not every musician understands that they are in business for themselves. Even though pretty much every musician is just like every tattoo artist is at some level. And what you're describing to me here sounds a lot like running a band because you've got people who are very talented and yet don't understand how to properly and effectively and at a maximal level to capitalize on their talent. And it sounds like you are coming in as in my analogy, the role of a band manager, someone who does know how to do that and knows how to interface with the customers. And it's like, okay, you interface only when I tell you to. Don't do your own marketing. We got you. Right? And is that what's happening here? You're doing the marketing, you're doing everything.

And marketing when you know, we have an in house team of content creators doing pictures and videos constantly. We have a front desk staff, we have one person running around offering you your hot beverage water. We, we have everything in place because, you know, you go, you, you go to a tattoo shop, if your tattoo artist is delayed, nobody's, no one's gonna come and tell you no because they handle themselves.

Yeah, yeah.

If you walk in and your tattoo artist delay, I'm gonna tell you, Jake, it's running 20 minutes behind. Let me make you some coffee. Let me, you know, show you the piercing solutions that we have or, you know.

Yeah, whatever.

Yeah, Concierge, right?

You're gonna deal with that? Yeah, well, yeah. And not only does that provide a service that there's a good chance most many, I don't want to say most many tattoo artists wouldn't even think or know how to provide. But even if they do, it allows them to remain focused on what they're doing in that moment and not have to stop and say, hey, I see you're here. I'm with this client, I'm sorry. And now they're sitting between two worlds. Then they got to say to their client, hang on one second, let me give them the iPad so that they can look at my designs. I'll be right back. I'm sorry, I. And now their time and focus is split. Yeah, you solve that problem.

Just keep what you're saying it. You say you're saying that and just gives me, you know, the thing. We, we have the first thing in our company book or manual, whatever you want to call it, it's. We treat every client as was their birthday. Okay. Is your client's birthday. You don't tell them, hold on, I'm going to do something else. It's a birthday. So that's awesome, right?

Yeah, yeah.

No.

Okay.

Because I've been to tattoo shops, and again, they're. They, you know, they. The ones I've been to have been functional and they have to split their time. There's no one, like, there to help them and facilitate. It's. It's. And so you. Do you. You notice. Okay, well, now you're distracted. And now if I'm the one in the chair, am I worried that they're rushing to finish my job because they've got the next person sitting there? The answer is yes, they are. Yeah, that's.

That's right.

I don't ever want to. I. You said that you charge four times as much as some tattoo shops, and I realized that number might be different as soon as. When you first said it, I was like, wow, that's a lot. It took me about 15 seconds to say, gosh, I wish I had the opportunity to pay four times as much as I did for all of my tattoos.

Well, I want to ask a question that's related to that. So, like, I always post, you know, hey, fall in love with problem solving and everything else, you know, follow success follows and everything. Because. Because that's what we do, right? We solve problems. You're a bridge. You're doing all this stuff. Your business is very permanent. Right. I mean, I don't need to tell you that.

It. It's.

How do you solve? And I get it. I'm sure you show everything. They. Like this. Yes, it looks good. But how do you manage? Like, I feel like I'm pretty good at managing unhappy clients. And we talk about the two tokens of customer service, this concept, which works great for, like, my business. But how do you manage an unhappy client? Or maybe you don't get them or somebody who has regret. I mean, what do you. What's the process there?

Okay, the first line of defense is having amazing tattoo artists that minimizes. Yeah, that part. Okay, you can't please everybody. That. That is absolutely true. We've had cases where, I mean, we have a bunch of written information between clients and. And ourselves before your appointment, you know, getting into.

Before they even get to the. In through the door, you're talking. They book an appointment, they get some emails.

I tell them, this is very important. You you read everything I. At the studio, we have a. A few catchphrases that I, you know, I. I teach to my team, and I love them. The first one, he says, hey, don't worry. It's only permanent. Yeah, It's. You got nothing to worry about. I always say tattoos are like children. They're not going to come out the way you thought. They're not going to be perfect. You're gonna love them anyway.

That's good.

And. And then we own our mistakes if it happens. We do run the math for now. I should have run the math before. About 30 to 50 tattoos every day.

Wow, that's quite a bit, man.

We're open 362 days a year, so it's a lot. A lot of tattoos. So the possibility of mistakes is there in the very few cases. I can tell you four that I can think of. Top of my head, we pay for laser removal.

Oh, genius. No.

Regards. Somebody got. I do have a funny story where they. Somebody got. When Argentina was the world champions, somebody got the. A tattoo of Messi holding the World Cup.

Oh.

And Messi was the. The body of Messi was the number one of. Of the ten, which is Mrs. Jersey, right?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

And the guy printed it mirrored. Nobody paid attention. Oh, and the kid. First tattoo ever got it was a 01 instead of.

Oh, man. Now, in that nobody realized, as someone who has had tattoos or has tattoos, I. They. They are not past tense. They are current present tense. Because I haven't had to have any. Any removed. Part of the process is, of course, you review it, but then it is, like, printed on my body so that the artist has something to follow. And once it's printed on my body with, like, a temporary. Just, you know, a temporary tattoo, for lack of a better term. Yeah, you look at it, but I. I'm guessing he looked at it in a mirror and saw the 10 and thought it was okay.

Here's the thing. The tattoo artist is not really thinking of what he's tattooing.

No.

But like, the person, Shadow Ghost, the person, you know, he looked at it in the mirror. So.

In the mirror.

In the mirror, it was right. Okay.

Yeah, it was right. So we, we, we. That happened a couple of times.

Sure.

You know, it's gonna happen.

It's inevitable.

Yeah, but we always own our mistakes. Even though paper, laser, or.

Yeah, we.

We come up with that with a great tattoo to cover it up with.

To cover it up.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. That. Know, being that. That ultimate accountability and especially in your business, man, you just. I don't know any way. Any other way around it because it's. It's. Much of it is subjective, right? When they're. The person's this or that and they're. When they look at it, it's very different, right, because they're looking down on their body or whatever versus other people. So, yeah, I. I commend you for. For that. That's wonderful. Wonderful. That is great. So I know you're growing, right? You're planning on opening other stores. Do you want to talk about that a little bit now, that process, what are you looking for? What makes a great spot to open a premium business like this?

I have no idea. I just follow my gut. Expansion was always in the room, in. In my head since. Since the beginning. But when. When Miami was. Was ready to. To be what it is now, a mothership and move forward, Covid hit us and, you know, we had a couple years that we. I couldn't really plan for anything. Then I had a partner breakup. And then when that happened, we decided we were going to move the studio to this bigger spot. And so now I think I'm ready to. I just think, you know, growing in. In the same city is. Is pretty much competing against myself. So I spent a number of years traveling for the. Through the US I went to Austin, I went to San Francisco, I went to Atlanta, I went to New York. And in the last couple years, I've been visiting Nashville. And I just. I don't have a. I have a way of doing things that, you know, it's. It's. It's proven, or it actually is proven because my businesses are doing it.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I just go to a city and I sit at a cafe and I look around and I walk it and I feel it, and I eat other restaurants and I interact with business owners and I didn't feel any of the green flag that I've been fleeing with Nashville in. In other cities. So nice that that's where you following right now.

That's great. And that is it.

I think Nashville makes a lot of sense for what you do. It's a vacation destination. It's a younger demographic. I mean, there's.

Yeah, it.

The people that go to Nashville on vacation include the younger demographic that might be, you know, more apt to. To. To do this for sure.

So.

Yeah, I think that's great.

And also I want to. I'd like to say it, but it's. Well, I can say it. We. We invented this. We created this.

Okay. Good for you.

Eleven years ago, when we. When we created this in Buenos Aires, it didn't exist. In big cities right now, it exists. If I go to New York, Louisiana. If I go to, you know, I mean, competition, it's. It's going to be a red ocean. Yeah. In smaller cities, it's not. It's craving what we open.

That's great. You said something that I can't let you get out of here without talking about. You said partnership breakup. And as Dave knows, we. We talk about partnerships a lot. We wrote a guide on it because, you know, I. I've had some great partners, and I've had some. Some lousy ones as well. We talk about different ways to get around that. How did. As much as you can talk a little bit about that partnership and what went sideways and how you extricated yourself from that situation, it's.

It's been one of the toughest things ever, as you guys might know.

Yep.

So I'm sorry to laugh. That's the understatement of the year. And the year has only just begun.

When we came from Buenos Aires to Miami to set up our first branch, I hired this. This. This gentleman, Kenny. I still love him with all my heart. Sure to be like a manager. Okay. He very quickly became so important to Iris Tattoo that I gave him huge portion of equity in the business because I thought, I. I want this partner by my side. We became really close friends, and we had a great partnership until Covid. I was stuck in Argentina for two years. I couldn't travel.

Yeah.

So he was running the business on his own. And when I finally made it back, I discovered a lot. A lot of dirt under the rug, which is not an issue. And I say to him, okay, listen, I need to grow this business. And this was the toughest thing I have to ever say to anybody. You're the best partner I can dream of. You're the worst manager I've ever had. So I need to fire you as a manager in hopes you stay as a partner. He didn't take my offer.

Yeah.

So.

Wow.

That's tough. That's a tough one.

We were too alike.

Yeah.

I needed a manager to cover my blind spots.

Sure. Yeah. I think the best partnerships do just that. They cover your blind spots.

And I love that term because that's. That's. Yes. Yes.

Partnering is back to back.

Yeah. That's it. You get. I'm. I've never been a great. You know, I know how to make money, but I'm not a great finance person. Not a great accounting person. And you know, my answer to most problems is more sales, which can work most of the time, but you still have to have that bottom line person. So I've always looked for people that are better at that than I am. You know, for sure.

I'm the, I'm the engine of this company and I know that. But my wife is everything else on the car.

Okay. Yeah. Nice.

So. So she, she's ruthless. And when she had to take care of two Right. Brainers or two subscale partners.

Yeah.

You know, it was. It was getting too hard for her and now I was here. We decided to move because I was running the business from Argentina back and forth. Yeah, it was. It was pretty tough. But.

You'Re here.

But you're here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. Any. I mean, if a business lasts long enough, it will hit moments like that. And that's okay.

Absolutely.

That's just how it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now your attitude is great. It's what attracted me to you, that some of the comments that you've made on my posts and stuff and art interacting, the DMs, it's huge, man. It's great. We would be lousy partners together, but that's okay.

But we can hang out for beers.

Oh, I'd love. Yeah, I'm coming to Miami. Yeah, I'm definitely coming.

No, but one of the reasons, you know, I keep, I keep coming back to your guys post and I listen to this podcast every week in the car.

It's awesome.

Every, Every Saturday I go there and I listen to both episodes of the week.

Amazing.

On my way back. And so I've always felt that, you know, you guys know this from many entrepreneurs that you guys talk to. It's lonely. You talk to your family, you talk to your friends, they don't get it. I'm new in this country. I've discovered X as a tool to, you know, is there anybody around like me? Am I the only one in the galaxy of my own, you know, species? And just find you and your post and being able to interact and just listening to the people that you guys talk to, it's just. It just feels like, okay, I'm not alone in the world.

You're not alone. Yeah, man.

It's exactly the whole reason this show. That's why we would have these conversations anyway, because we always have. But the reason the show exists, the reason we publish them, is exactly what you just articulated.

Yeah.

And I know this is the first episode of the year, but we're recording it before the end of the year and you just warmed my heart. The fact that I'm not in tears right now is. Is surprising to me.

That's our. That's. I always talk about my ideal listener is a person like you that's going through the struggle and stuff that we've gone through. And, you know, I have more gray hair than you and, you know, but.

We got more hair than me. That's.

Well, I wasn't gonna say.

You said it.

Yeah, you said it.

But.

But that, that connection and that's what I love about on X as well. And like groups like Tribe and those guys that are bringing entrepreneurs together, it's super valuable and it helps. It's a leg up. It's a step up. You know, we all have to help each other and there's just so many different ways to do it. Sometimes just listening and talking and coming up with stuff, I always feel better. I always say I learned the most on these podcasts. I definitely learned the most today and well, I'm so happy that you came on and I can't wait to get to meet you in person, man. It's gonna be good.

It's honestly a huge honor. I'm so thankful for you.

That goes in both directions, my friend. Thank you.

Yeah. Tell us the best way for people to learn more about your awesome business.

Okay. Iris Tattoo is on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and many other things that I don't even know about. Instagram is our strongest. It's Iris Tattoo art. Iris Tattoo is our website and yeah, we got the Dr. Domain.

Yeah, I like that.

That's nice.

That's awesome. Yeah.

And then. And then X is just me. It's my journey. It's got probably a 10% of what happens at Iris, man.

Yeah, that's great though. But yeah, man, thank you so much for being here. Happy New Year. I can't. It's going to be an amazing year. I can't wait to, you know, I'm going to follow along and watch your growth and keep in touch and come back and tell us how it's shake hands very soon. Yes, that's for sure.

Amazing. I thank you for your time, Noel. This has been absolutely fantastic. Follow Noel and Iris Tattoo. We've got all the links in the show notes and of course, go to Businessbrain show and follow us. Sign up for the mailing list. And here we go with 2025.

Woohoo.

Let's rock, man. Charm lives abound. Have a good one, folks. We'll see you next week.