Prioritizing Family and Keeping a Positive Outlook as a Small Business Owner – Small Business Show episode 90

The Small Business show. Episode number 90 for Wednesday, October 26, 2016. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at businessshow Co. The show by, for and about small business business owners as usual. Here I am in Durham, New Hampshire.

Dave Hamilton, and I'm in Lafayette, California. And I'm Shannon Jean sitting here talking about small business and how to lead a charmed life. And just followed up after following up today, an interview with Harold Sinau, co founder of MaxStation up in Vancouver. That was great to talk with him.

It was, you know, I always have so much swimming through my head after, after we do these interviews and, and so as usual, we'll talk about it and see what else comes up. But Harold, there were so many things in his interview that were like, oh, we could do a whole show about this or we could do a whole show about that. Jumping around and not going necessarily in chronological order. But one of the things that really, really stood out for me was the fact that when he sold Max Station, he didn't immediately jump into the next thing. I mean, he took a victory lap, essentially.

That is so great.

Right. But that's so rare.

It is rare.

I know so many people that have sold businesses and immediately just go right back into it because typically what it takes, the type of person, it takes to get a business to the point where you can sell it and sell it for enough that you could afford to take a victory lap, typically that person isn't the victory lap type of person.

Yeah. And you know, I've always said, you know, one of the things that kind of disappoints me actually about myself and about business, is that oftentimes I get my sense of self worth wrapped up in the numbers.

Yeah.

And I, and I try not to do it. And from a, you know, a human level, I can, I can stand outside myself and tell myself, hey, that's, that's stupid. You know, it's much more than that. But I know, I can feel it inside, you know, you know, when the, when things are going well or, you know, and the way I've dealt with that over the years is to develop lots of different stuff. And some things are working great. Maybe one business is doing well, but another one isn't doing good. So I can still kind of. I'm like a vampire, you know, if you think about it. And I like. To your point, you know, Harold, small business vampire, I have to put that on my wrist resume. But you know, Harold, like you said, he had the disconnect because it's kind of addicting, you know, to Totally. Yeah. To put your deals. Like I'm a deal guy. I love putting the deals together and seeing how they work and if they, if they start not to work. You know, I love really jumping in and fixing things. It makes me feel good and that's one of the big reasons I do it. And some deals, you don't make much money. But there's a huge sense of accomplishment in him and the fact that he could disconnect, take his family to Europe for a year, drive around, live in an RV and homeschool his kids. That is so cool, man.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I guess it's, it's a victory lap is, is a fun phrase to apply to it, but it really isn't a victory lap. I mean, he, he detached. He wasn't driving around saying, hey, woohoo, look how great I am. It was, hey, now I want to like, pay some attention to my family. This is important to me and presumably to them. And it sounds like it certainly was. But. But yeah, I mean, he, it wasn't just, you know, let me, let me pound my chest a little bit. In fact, it didn't sound like it was that at all.

No, no, it was kind of like a. Like we're doing right now where we do this show, which is sort of a debriefing.

Yeah.

Of the interview. I imagine that after doing it for 20 years that he kind of needed that 12 months or so to debrief and, and decompress maybe and come up for air from being into it so much, get to know his kids.

At the same time. I. There was enough about that time that he took off that had nothing to do with business.

Yes.

I mean, it's admirable, frankly.

It is.

But it's so rare. You know, usually people that are, that are that driven can't do that.

Yeah, it's hard.

But. But kids are the key. I mean, I'm thinking about. Did you ever know a guy named Ralph Risch? Who?

No.

Okay. So he was the one who came in, he got some investors, he came in, he was with excited originally. I believe in fact, now that I say it, he would be someone great to have on the show. He came into the Mac market, he bought Version Tracker and then he bought Mac Fix it.

Okay.

And then he tried to buy Mac observer, but I didn't let him and I kicked myself for it because he rolled them all up. And he bought a couple of other non Mac sites too, and he rolled them all up. And sold them to cnet. And at least the deals that he cut with the two people that I know. And I don't know if he would have cut this deal with me or not. I didn't cut a deal with him. So I'm the, I'm, you know, I'm the chump in this scenario.

But maybe, you never know.

Maybe, right?

Yeah.

But certainly the deals that he cut those other two guys included a piece of the action going forward. So when CNET was sold, there was a huge payday for those guys.

Oh, I could imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That, that's interesting.

Yeah. So it was, it's just one of those things. But, but when he did, when he finally took it through to last payday, he then detached. Now I've talked to him about it and the timing was such that the market sucked like two months after he made this deal. So it was good timing for him, but there was nothing else to do. And as I understand, I mean, I think he's got other things going on. But as I understand it, certainly at the time it was, you know what? I've got relatively young kids, man, and some financial freedom. Screw it. I'm gonna spend some time with my kids because I can go do the business thing any other time. I can'. Do this with my kids again.

Yeah, yeah. You really only have, and it seems like a long time, but you really only have one opportunity to connect with your kids and as they're younger, to build that foundation to where we could go into this a lot and how deep we want to go into this one. But as business owners, where we're just, you know, especially getting started or ramping up or during high growth or, you know, maybe in your case all the time listening, you know, as they show you miss out on a lot of stuff. And you know, we've tried to involve our kids with our business a lot to where they're always down there. They come back, come after school and you know, one of the best decisions or best pieces of advice I ever got was to bring my wife in to manage certain aspects of the business. And it's worked out fantastic. So we see each other a lot, even though we're not connected as, you know, per se. And having the kids there, it's fantastic. But yeah, if you need to put in that time somehow, whether you have an opportunity to disconnect or you're just, you know, doing it on a day by day basis because all of a sudden, you know they're going to be Teenagers and into high school. And then, you know, it's different if you don't have that foundation. I would, I would argue that it's much more difficult to connect at that time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that, that's easy. And that sacrifice, I think is made a lot by, by business owners that feel like, oh, if I just put more time in or if I just expand into this, into that, you know, it'll be better.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's really, you know, that, that stuck out for me because it's an anomaly and it's a great one. I mean, I really feel like that, you know, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Plus having him out of the picture, you know, leaves more room for the rest of us to maybe do some stuff because that dude highly productive.

What the heck? Super, super smart. And you know, I, like I said, I always Lear year on the show and I'm sitting there going, oh, yeah, that's great. Oh, I gotta ask a follow up, you know, and it's, it's, it's wonderful to be able to talk with, you know, folks like that that have had that level of success and, you know, and now he's got his kids on this track, you know, they're interested in things and it's not like, you know, I would be like, oh, that's cool, you like to cook, go ahead. But you know, he's like, oh, well, let's go on this show and let's learn this and let's start a business. And yeah, all those things are, are wonderful lessons. Even if you don't ever make a dime.

Right.

You're doing great things. A lot of charitable things that they do and, But a great opportunity.

Yeah, it's good. So the, another thing that jumped out at me and I mentioned this while we were recording, but I kind of wanted to come back to it, was when Harold talked about how he was definitely a control freak and morphed that into being a control freak about being a good teacher. And that was his way of allowing himself to detach in a natural way. Man, what a brilliant. Like I said, I think I called it a brain hack, you know, but it's definitely one of those things where you just retraining yourself. It's like, okay, this is who I am at my core. I'm not going to change that. But I can change the way I perceive the scenario by looking at it this way.

Yeah. Because then as you're transitioning from a technician, no matter what business you're in, you first start, you're doing the stuff.

Right, Right.

And then you're transitioning to a management level and leadership and that kind of thing. You know, flipping it to where you're not measuring your success just on the technical aspects of your business, but on the, this teaching concept of how good you're doing and challenge your. Challenging yourself to do the best, best you possibly can at teaching the other folks about how to do it, how to do the technical parts, as well as what kind of culture you want to build. You know, when I asked Harold, you know, what, what was the, one of his best measures of success, you know, beyond the financial one, you know, it's a common thing. Oh, great culture. Have a good time, you know, really build a close knit, you know, organization, that stuff. It really is powerful and also. And keeps your energy level up while you're, you know, while you're putting in the time.

Yeah.

Good thing. That goes on your success list, man.

Totally. Yeah, it does, sure. I mean, you know, I say that you truly have to hack your brain into wanting that and some of us, but you also have to be aware of what it was that got you into the business in the first place. I know because I've, I've done this. I, you know, I really enjoy, I know it sounds crazy. I enjoy the accounting side of it, which I still do quite a bit of.

It's a little sick, but.

I know, I know, I know. I used to train people how to use QuickBooks. It's like weird, but whatever. I mean, it's fine.

Sure.

It's. It's my thing and it's great. Right. But I also really like the technical aspect of, you know, figuring out why the servers aren't running or getting them running better or whatever that part of it is. I really like that. That, that's just something that I've always liked since I was a kid. And I knew that I had to get out of being the main person responsible for that in order for the business to be able to grow. Right. I needed to have someone else that was responsible when there was a problem. Because for our business, the technical side, is it right? I mean, if the web server doesn't work the right way or there's some problem, or even if we decide as a priority, oh, we need a new feature, like, that's now at the top of the list and maybe I can't, shouldn't be taking my time to do that because there's another thing that should be at the top of the list. So having someone else doing at least the lion's share of the tech stuff and being on point for that was an important thing. But I found after five years of being out of it, that part of what I enjoy about the business is that. So just be aware of who you are. If you're going to sort of navigate yourself out of something, be aware that you might feel the itch to come back to it at some point.

That's right.

But again, you know, you might be able. And I hopefully was able to do this. I mean, I guess the proof will be in the pudding, but, you know, I was able to come back to it in a different way. Like, okay, I want to be involved with this because I enjoy it, but I'm going to compartmentalize that and not have it be the thing that when, you know, there's some issue at 2:15 on a Tuesday that I have to drop everything and go do that. You know, that's someone else's job. But there are parts of it that I can get involved in and feel like I'm involved and actually contribute to and add some value to it.

Yeah. And like, for me, I often felt, as, you know, the business was growing, that, you know, one of the signs of success was that, well, I had to move up and, you know, do other stuff and not do certain things, you know, and. But then, you know, it didn't take me long to realize that, well, what I really enjoyed doing was connecting with the customers. And that that usually is a customer service type of thing that, you know, the business owner and somebody's trying to grow and maybe even start another business. You don't often have time to do that. And then I was. I happened to stumble across an interview with Craig Newmark, you know, from Craigslist.

Right.

And, you know, this guy's worth, you know, gazillions of dollars and, you know, or many, many millions. And his thing is a couple things that he said I really stuck with me. One is he enjoys doing customer service, and that's what he does. That's it. That's what he joys. And he gets somebody else to do the other stuff. And, yeah, there's no.

There's no. There's nothing wrong necessarily with h a boss or hiring someone who's above you, even though you're the founder of the business.

Correct. Yeah. And he realized that early on. And then that. And the fact that he's like, well, you know, we're making enough money if we were to flip the switch and turn on all these Other things, yeah, we could make a ton of more, but then I wouldn't be able to do this. And, you know, I think that's great, you know, to hang on to the things or some portion at least to the stuff you love, because, you know, like. Like you. I got in the business because for me, I love the Mac. And I was like, man, look how I was running another company. And the Mac made my business presence so much more professional, and it just enabled my life in a dramatic fashion. And I could see quickly, as I said, hey, we should start a business to do this. But a couple years into it, I could see myself, or feel myself getting farther and farther away from that, because you become a manager and you're dealing with employers and healthcare and 401ks and, you know, buildings and real estate and this and that and buying and, you know, and I got to stay in it because I kept focused on the deals, which I really loved, and the relationship part of it. You can give, you know, great customer service to a customer or you can give it to a supplier. And one of our secret. Or our secret sauce over the years has been providing great customer service to our suppliers and not just our customers. And I've mentioned it here before, but if you. By treating those people like their clients, they really want to do business with you. And in this day and age where, you know, it's so easy to dump product online and get a lot of money for it, when the old days used to be that somebody would call you and just ask you what you'd pay and you could close a deal, having those relationships have really paid off for us. Yeah, it's really good. I like it. And. And I, you know, I love to, you know, Harold's mistake as well, you know, by his favorite mistake, you know, not firing himself soon enough.

Yeah. That's kind of the same thing we were just talking about, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same kind of stuff kind of comes back to that. And it's funny how, you know, there's so much focus and. And I do, too, you know, the unsung heroes, you know, the small business owners and everything. But it's like once you kind of get the ball rolling, you need to take yourself out of it at some level to let your people get in and really perform and do things and like he says, become a teacher. I think it's fantastic.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting stuff.

Yeah, it's really good.

I have to ask you a question, Shannon, because I know I'm not the only one sitting here wondering what the Heck did he mean when you said you were like a small business vampire? Because I like that phrase. Yeah, but I gotta ask you about this.

Sure, sure. So I, I have this. I always joke around, I tell you I'm a really selfish person, but I think that if you ask a lot of people around me, you may not. They may not agree with you because I tend to do a lot of, I don't know, you know, charitable stuff or helping people, mentoring and all these kinds of, you know, causes I get involved in. But really the only reason I do that stuff is because it makes me feel good. And, you know, when my business early on, I felt myself getting wrapped up in the numbers to where it was kind of at the end of the day, that would be the last thing I looked at. How was today? And you know, I was a very young business person and I realized, like, man, I'm going to just drive myself nuts if this is all I focus on. And I still found myself slipping back to that. But that was one of the reasons I said I need to start something else because then I can have something in a completely different channel. And, you know, I can look at that and go, oh, well, this is good. And this is. This one's working. This business is working good. This one's not. And I guess you could look back on it and say it was kind of starting of my success list because I need to tell myself these things. I need to be able to look in the mirror when there is a bad. You know, you go through bad times where things are not good and writing the, the numbers up is fantastic. But the true measure of a business person, in my opinion, is how you ride the numbers down. And all of us will go through those things and transition to different. Hopefully change your business to then get back on the ride back up. But I really am like a small business vampire because I'm sucking something out of the. Not the blood or whatever, but taking something from those businesses. And it's making me feel good, accomplished, you know, whatever, successful, however you want to define that. I love it. And now I'm at the point where I'm able to help some other people. And I just put together a really nice deal today for the new contact that I have. And just connecting people is what I really enjoy the most and looking for opportunities. So we found a deal that this colleague of mine was interested and I put people together and he's like, well, how much do I need to pay you? I was like, let's see if this works, works. And in six months from now, if you've turned this into something that can generate profits, then you can pay me what you. You know, what you think. But that's not why I'm doing it.

Right.

I'm doing it because tonight when I'm, you know, relaxing and talking to my wife and everything, I can say, hey, check this out. I did this and this. And it. It made me feel good. So, you know.

Yeah, I think that that's a. That's that concept of. Of accepting that you're a selfish person. I mean, we're all selfish people at that level. And it's just an awareness thing to just know that, okay, yeah, look, everything I do is about me in the end, but it might be I'm doing this thing for that person solely because it makes me feel good to do this thing for that person. And perhaps it has nothing to do with. I want to take credit for it or anything. I mean. Oh, yeah, it might be that or it might not be. It doesn't matter. But at the core, we humans are just selfish people. It's just how it works. And you've said something to me that kind of takes it to another level, which is you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. And you know that by taking care of what you want, there's this halo effect.

Yeah. Hopefully that's what it's all about, because I think selfishness gets a bad rap in our society.

Totally. Well, for good reason. I mean.

Yeah.

Yeah, right, Correct.

It can definitely be taken the wrong way, but like many other things. But if you're. If you're selfish in the sense that you're trying to better yourself, whether it's financially, spiritually, you name it.

Right.

You know, if you're. If you're selfish in that respect, you are going to bring positive things to people that are around you. This halo effect, whether it's your employees. You know, I always. I mean, it sounds kind of funny, but one of my goals when I first started the company is like, man, I really want a soda machine. I mean, I want the soda fountain. Like, you walk into the place and, you know, I was hooked on Mountain Dew back then, and I just want it to walk to me. I was like, man, this will be it for me. I will know I've made it if I walk in and do it. And, you know, I always used to talk about it and everything, and finally, when we could do it, everybody loved it, you know, but I did it for myself. For you? Yeah, for me. And you know, so I would encourage that as long as you can be aware of it and it's in a positive way. You're not doing it just to, you know, float your boat, make you feel good, whatever it is, but you're. It's doing something for you. But when you look around, you'll see it helping other people, hopefully in a positive manner.

Yeah, no, it totally is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good stuff, man.

Yeah, it is good. I've enjoyed. I have no complaints. And I've got to live a charmed life because of it. And I still am. And I do firmly believe, you know, it's kind of my catchphrase, you know, your best years are ahead of you because why wouldn't you want to think like that? It's very simple. Why would you not want to think like that? And I've had people, you know that I know and work for me and friends. Oh, you know, this was great. And now I don't know what's going to happen. Well, now you know, it's going to be different, but really, you're going to enter another stage of your life and you need to make it the best.

You have to assume that it's always going to be better.

Yeah, the opposite sucks. Why would you think that? You can't justify it to me. Like, well, I want to be careful. Well, that's fine. But why shouldn't you focus on the best years of your life are ahead of you. Yes, they're going to be different. Yes, you're going to be older, whatever. But that phrase has carried me through some dramatically difficult times where I thought, gosh, if I, I don't think, like, this is rude. Yeah. I could be thinking about what is going on right now, today, for the rest of my life. And I refused. I just consciously told myself, you cannot do it. This is not, you know, these things that are happening right now are not the defining moments of your life. They're just moments.

They're just moments. But to do that, you have to be willing to process the great things that happen the same way.

Yes. That's why you're success list.

Right.

Because people forget about it. Our inner, inner judge or the voice in our head, at least, you know, speaking for myself, because I don't hear other voices. Not all the time anyway.

Well, let me do this show. You hear my voice in your head.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. But, you know, I constantly. There's little niggling, you know, voices in your head that are saying, oh, well, that's just a fluke. That success was this. That only happened once. Oh, wait, how long is this going to last? You know, these little things that kind of try to tear you down and I think you have to, you really have to saddle those and flip it on yourself and it works out marvelously, you know, and perfect. So.

Yeah, it's true. That's true.

Yeah.

Cool.

Cool, man.

Anything else from, from the interview we did with Harold that you want to talk, talk about here before we, before we.

I think that's it. We're gonna, I'm gonna drag his, you know, his son and daughter on the show. We're gonna get them to come on and talk about their experience@kidscancookgourmet.com I would.

Love to have those kids on. Yeah, I bet, I bet they've got a very interesting perspective. I'm clearly successful, clearly smart. But they're kids, right? I mean, so they're gonna have a different view because of that. But they're also gonna have a different view because they watched their father go through this. Right. And how aware were they that he. Like the thing we started talking about, about with this episode, how aware are they at how special that was that he was able to do a 180 and, and stop doing business at least for, for his full time gig, you know, for a little while?

Yeah, well, we'll have to talk about that with him and see how that impacted their, their outlook on things.

Yeah, yeah.

Very good.

Cool. Cool. Thanks for listening, folks. You can find us facebook dot com. Oh yeah, well, you could find us@facebook.com businessshow co. But it's easier to do businessshow co. Facebook. That will get you to the group where we'll find, we find each other and, and, and among that we will find ourselves.

There you go.

I don't know where that's coming from. That's okay. Yeah, it's all good.

Come join us and, you know, answer some questions you'll see up there or post your own questions. Let us know what you think.

Keep living the charmed life, folks. See you next week. Next week, right? Next week.

Yeah. You got it, Sam.