Remote Small Business Management – Interview with Joseph Stewart – Small Business Show 214

The Small business show episode 214 for Wednesday, March 13, 2019. Greetings, folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co the show by, for and about small business. Sponsors for this episode include abbyconnect.com SBS and textexpander.com podcast podcast. We'll talk in a little more detail about those shortly here. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, at least usually, I'm Dave Hamilton and.

Out on the west coast, I'm Shannon Jean. How are you, man?

I'm good, man. How are you? I'm good, good, good.

I'm excited to be rolling into the next episode. I was saying before we started here that I've tapped, you know, just about every person I've done, well, maybe not every business, but, but close friend people that I've done business with in the Apple space. And today we're joined by one of those folks and you know, owning your own business or, you know, a single business is challenging in itself. Owning multiple businesses, it can be awesome. But it's a whole nother level and running.

Trust me, I know.

Yeah, yeah, it's a juggle. And you know, so being successful at that over many years and then eventually being able to sell both of those businesses, it's really an accomplishment and I'm really impressed by it today with our guests. So we're joined a longtime friend of mine, business colleague Joseph Stewart, former owner of the Mac Outlet in Colorado and Felt Pool and Billiards. So thanks for joining us today, Joseph.

You bet. Great to be here.

Yeah, we really appreciate it, man. We go back a long way.

We do 1990s, mid-90s.

Yeah, I'm not that old, so I.

Must have, must have been like.

Yeah, must have been. Sorry. Like in junior high school, just a couple of kids. Yeah, yeah. So I know more about the Mac Outlet than I do about Felt.

So. So let's start there.

Tell me what was. And tell our listeners what was the impetus for getting into the pool and bar business and how long did you own Felt for?

I kind of fell into it. It was not really my intention to open a pool hall at all. I was doing the Mac store and we had bought a building for the store and the pool hal tenants initially. So they, that was like 2009, I guess that I bought the building. They were initially very successful place. They had had a previous couple locations and had, you know, moved into this location. We're doing well for a while, but then had been struggling more recently. And so when I got in, they were you know, trying various things and. But nothing was really clicking super well. So my dreams of having a rent paying tenant soon turned into the nightmare of having a non rent paying tenant. So after about two years of kind of running around with that, I had to victim and I'd always kind of wanted to do a turnaround project. I kind of liked the challenge that that seemed to offer and felt like they had been successful. I thought it was a good concept, good location and just kind of observing from the outside. I felt like there were some things that they were doing that could have been done a little better, controlling costs and quality and some of that sort of stuff. So I was faced with, well, I can get a new tenant and kind of roll the dice again and see how that goes. Or you know, they're in the same building as my other business, I will be a masochist and take on yet another project. So we shut the doors for about three or four months, did some renovation and kind of cleaned house staff wise and new menu and all of that stuff. I had owned a nightclub years ago for about four years, so I was kind of familiar with the bar setting.

Okay, so this wasn't your first rodeo in terms of, in terms of that. Because that's a, I mean that's a very difficult business to get right. Any, anything like that is, you know.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I was a little intimidated because there's also full restaurant, full kitchen.

Right.

And I am, I am, you know, I can make toast and cereal and that's about it. So that part was a little, you know, I gotta get some good staff in here to kind of guide the kitchen for sure. But yeah, the bar business, you know, I kind of knew pretty well I played a little bit of pool, wasn't much of a pool player, but can hold my own. So I, I thought give it a shot. And it worked out well. It was, you know, very kind of slow initially and you know, kind of your traditional growth story, just kind of every year a little better, a little better. And, and so yeah, started that, I guess 2011 and then sold it about a year ago.

That's great. Yeah. And it brings up a good point along this path of owning businesses. When you say you eventually bought this building, that's such a great way to maximize your investment as a business owner. Did you buy the business personally and then have the companies lease it from you or how did that work as.

Far as felt, you mean? Yeah, more or less. Just I kicked them out basically. They wrote back rents and stuff. So it was like. Like, well, you know, you can either owe me money or I'll just kind of keep your stuff. So it was. It was a kind of a neat. You know, as a landlord, you can, you know, have that sort of power and leverage and, you know, definitely had to spend some money because they had. For the end, it was a mess. You know, they were selling off their kitchen equipment and, you know, so I had to do some things to get.

Right in terms of the building. Did you own that as a separate business so that you were protected from risk and then could just rent the space from yourself with the other businesses, or was it just all in one?

One? Yeah, three. Three, you know, separate entities there. So we had done an SBA loan to do the building purchase, which is a great program. And, yeah, being the, you know, owning the building, you know, it has its downsides, too. Obviously, when stuff breaks, it's your problem, obviously. But the, you know, the real estate has really been a tremendous vehicle for me to kind of further, you know, my. My financial goals. And. And you just. Whether it's owning houses or as all the businesses, I've kept, you know, still the landlord now, so it's.

Right. Right. And in addition. In addition to the house you live in and. And that business. Do you. Is real estate a part of your sort of your. Your business profile? Do you have other investment properties?

I just have one. So I. Part of the story that we haven't yet gotten to is that these are all in Denver. I have the house that I lived in in Denver, but I actually moved to San Diego only, so I kept that rental house out there, I guess, to answer your question, and do a little bit of airbnb stuff with my current space as well, so. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah. And that was the point I wanted to make is, you know, when you've got a successful small business and then, you know, you expanded it to, you know, the second one, that that revenue generation and that asset really can help, you know, underlie moving into something where you can buy that building and own it. And the SBA has a great program to help you do that, and it. It just really can further, you know, building wealth for yourself over. Over time. So.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so now I want to talk about the whole Colorado thing. And in San Diego, I. I was always impressed. You know, it's like, God, this guy. Like, you know, I just had this vision. You're on the beach every day, got the cooler. You know, every time I would talk to you be like, well, I'm down San Diego and you' these companies out in Colorado. So how did that, how did you do that? You know, this kind of powerful remote management, you know, how did it work and what would you tell other people if trying to do it?

Yeah. So to clarify, I started out in Denver. I was doing the Mac store for several years. I moved to San Diego in about 2008, started felt shortly thereafter. I moved back and lived out there for about six months to kind of get a good foundation for felt and then came back. So the bulk of both of the businesses was run remotely. In part that was circumstances of life and in part that was intentional. I really, you know, I read the Four Hour Workweek. I don't know if you guys have read Timothy Farris's book. Really resonated with me. I was really kind of drawn to that kind of, you know, flexibility and lifestyle. And so been running not only two businesses, but two businesses remotely for the bulk of the last 10 years or so. Definitely a different gig than being hands on. And took me a while to kind of figure that out. I love really that it forces you to work on the business and not just in the business. And I think that's a key mistake that a lot of business owners make. They get in the trenches and they're answering the phones and turning the screws and doing the work work. But ultimately you're kind of doing this $10 an hour work for a good portion of your day instead of the thousand dollar an hour work that's really going to grow your business and take things to the next level.

And I want to stop you there because that's such a good point. And I love that forced to step away because you're remote and in another state and that really, you know, requires you to have that hands off and to think about it. And that's just, that's powerful, man.

I like that. $10 an hour versus thousand dollars an hour. Pick which one you want to do and pick which one you want to pay somebody else to do. There you go. Right? Yep.

Right. Very easy, you know, on paper. So many people just don't do it very well. And so I, you know, I love that that kind of forces you, you know, at the same time, the downside obviously is you miss, you know, getting in the trenches. I enjoyed Mac computers and fixing stuff and, you know, the social aspects of owning a bar and stuff like that. So there, you know, certainly some downsides to it, but I think it was, you know, helpful to grow the Businesses and keep them, you know, on track. I think it made it much easier to sell the businesses.

Absolutely.

As well. Yeah. And, you know, if you, if there's any weaknesses in your business, they're going to get exposed if you're not there in the day to day to fix and patch the holes and plug the holes in the dike, so to speak, with your systems, your hiring, your training processes, all of that stuff. For me, it was about laying a good foundation, creating good systems to track inventory and ordering processes and all of that. Good procedures, making sure we were hiring good staff and really getting out of the way of the staff. I made the mistake, I think, early on of kind of micromanaging a little too much. Hired a good manager, solid guy. I was very impressed with the guy, but then I just hounded him a little too much, like, this is what we need to do. Do this, don't forget this, do this, do this, do this. And it took me a while to find that sweet spot of you want to stay in the loop, you want to know what's going on, you want to make sure that you're keeping things, you know, they're keeping things on track and all that. So true.

We've talked about, we've talked about that quite a bit on the show here that, you know, you can go too far in the other direction too. And, and you know, if you're, if you're someone like most of us who could easily be a micromanager, it's easy to say, ah, I won't be that. And then suddenly, you know, you're. You're clear on the other side of that sweet spot and you're not controlling the things that really should be controlled and molded and that sort of thing. So. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah, smart man. Yep. I kind of did both, both extremes and kind of, you know, at some point I was two hands off. I had a lot of stuff going on, you know, personal life and stuff. And two hands off that wasn't good, obviously. And yeah, being two hands on. So it was definitely a balance.

Yeah. And did you find that, you know, getting a key person made all the difference or was it more kind of spread out with the, you know, the staff and the team that was there that made it possible, you know, to live remotely?

Yeah. I think the key really is your manager. Obviously everything kind of revolves around them and they're only going to execute as well as they're, you know, empowered to and able to, you know, skill wise. So you got to find somebody that you really resonate with that understands your values as an owner for the business, your priorities, your goals and, you know, has the. The vision and the ability to kind of see that through. And, you know, I certainly had a. A mix of that. I again, took some time to kind of find. Oh, sure. Well, part of that worked well together.

Part of that I find. I mean, you. You tapped onto a really good thing there that, you know, you need to find a manager that can see your vision, but you also have to be able to articulate and communicate your vision in a. In a way that that manager can truly you. A chance to see it. So that's. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. Very important to kind of reiterate. Yeah, we had one principle of like, you know, having. Making sure customers had exceptional experiences. You know, so that was kind of my. My go to phrase and you know, really trying to have the manager get that, have the staff embody that and, you know, articulating those things was. Was an important part of it.

That's your. I don't know what your next, you know, what you're doing next here, but, you know, that' book, man, is sharing that experience of managing, you know, businesses in other states on a small business level. That's a rare skill set that I think you would be, you know, people would love to learn about it.

Yeah, it's been an interesting. Definitely an interesting experience.

That's cool.

Another. Another important element was. Was trust but verify. Kind of learned the hard way. You know, you have people out there and there's a lot of room for abuse, obviously, if you're not watching them, you know, like a hawk. So I had definitely some bad experiences with even close friends sometimes, you know, as a manager and you find out they're, you know, skimming or. And so really making sure you've got, you know, the systems in place to keep track of the stuff that you don't want to have to keep track of, but you need to, you know, you just never know with people. So that was always an important. Sure. For sure. Elements. Yeah.

Hey, guys, I'm going to take a break here and talk about our first two sponsors of this episode. That all right with you, Shannon?

Yeah, it sounds great.

All right. Our first sponsor today is textexpander@textexpander.com podcast where you can go to get version 6.5 of the utility that Shannon and I both say we cannot live without. Textexpander 6.5 for macOS and Textexpander 2.0 for Windows are out now, and they've added a New visual editor for your snippets. So we've always talked about how text expander lets you create these large blocks of text or take these large blocks of text, perfect them and then invoke them at a keystroke or a click of a mouse. And that's awesome. What's really cool is that you can have it auto insert things like the date or tomorrow's date or all sorts of stuff. Previously though, you had to use like, you know, percent y for the year and things like that. And you had to remember that, well, now you can do all that visually dragging it in and it makes it way easier because you can see what your options are and you can see what they're going to be. If you come back to a snippet in six months, you're like, what is percent y? Doesn't matter now. You can just see year and it puts it in like a little bubble. It's awesome. Really, really makes life easier on top of how it already made life easier. You've got to check it out. Go to textexpander.com podcast and that's where you're going to go to download Textexpander, get signed up and get 20% off your first year because you're a small business show listener. Textexpander.com podcast Our thanks to Textexpander for sponsoring this episode. We've talked on the show here about how important it is to prioritize the customer service relationship. When you run a small business, your customer touch points need to be optimal from start to finish to ensure that every potential lead becomes a satisfied customer. That's why we're really happy to have partnered with our sponsor, Abby Connect, who can do this for you. Abby Connect's team of incredible friendly customer care professionals provides a level of service that is virtually unreal, unheard of these days. They offer you over a hundred hours of phone coverage per week at a fraction of what it would cost to hire another full time employee. They answer your phone for you professionally the way you need them to, and they handle your customers like they're their own. And that's the magic of Abby Connect. We're super impressed about it. They put that personal touch right back into customer care. What do we say all the time? Every business is the customer service business. Well, talk to your customers and if you can't, you can have Abby Connect do it and be your front lines and the results speak for themselves. Just go read the reviews and you'll see what a difference Abby Connect has made for so many businesses over the past 14 years. And we have a deal for you. If you go to abbyconnect.com SBS you can get first, a no obligation free trial. Second, after your initial trial, you get 95 bucks off your first bill. But the only way to do that is to go to abbeyconnect.com SBS let me spell it for you. It's A b b y connect.com SBS Our thanks to Abby Connect for sponsoring this episode. All right, Shannon, back to you.

Awesome. Right on, man. So, Joseph, they seem like completely different businesses, you know, pool and bar, other than being in the same, you know, like, you know, building locations, a pool and bar, Apple reseller. Any similarities or, you know, did you share any resources between the two businesses?

You know, at first glance, obviously they're pretty different businesses. You got, you know, service industry and retail business, essentially, you know, the Mac store, I guess, since we didn't get into that exactly. But yeah, it's similar to what you were doing in your past. Buying and selling Mac computers, fixing Mac computers, just really on a retail basis that we weren't doing. And the mail order kind of stuff that you were doing. So pretty straightforward retail business. You know, obviously being in the same building, we tried to share, you know, I had same, you know, camera server and just, you know, where we could, you know, Internet access and stuff like that. Obviously I, I'm a big filemaker developer, database developer guy, so I'm kind of a nerd. So I used some of that stuff. Between the two, I think there are three people here.

Without filemaker, I don't know that any of us would be in business. So there you go.

That is true.

Yeah, I'm staring at a FileMaker database right now. I mean, it's just there's no way to manage everything without them.

Yeah, fantastic products for sure. Free plug there. So, yeah, I mean, different businesses for sure. The service industry staffs, their wages are paid almost more by your customers than you. So, you know, there I really worked to foster this idea that, you know, creating those exceptional experiences for the customer is going to directly reward, you know, the staff member. The retail store, we didn't have commission, so it was more just about training them, you know, to embrace that principle. But it was, you know, both staffs kind of a little lower end staff, I guess you could say. You know, people aren't usually like, oh, I want to be a career waitress or a retail counter, you know. So the fundamentals of the business I think were very similar and kind of an odd way you know, you want to keep track of your inventory, whether it's your computers or your liquor. You know, you want a staff that's focused on service, giving your customers great experiences, making them feel important. You want a good product, making sure the computers you're selling are well tested, in good shape, or the burrito or the pizza you're selling tastes great. So I kind of, from a fundamentals point of view, they were similar, I guess in more ways than you would kind of think at first glance.

Makes sense. Makes sense. So let's talk about the Mac Outlet a little bit. That's how we got involved. Or a previous Mac company that you had but over 15 years in Apple business and probably like Tech Restore and my company before that. Things change all the time. New products, entirely new platforms, things you build a whole part of your business business on just kind of eventually disappear. I mean, did you focus on keeping change as part of the culture there at Mac Outlet or was it just kind of forced upon you and you just adapted over time?

I think you recognize that there is change obviously in the high tech industry. You're going to have new products and new stuff coming out all the time. At our store we were selling stuff maybe that was, you know, to 10 years old. One of our kind of angles was, you know, you don't need the latest and greatest thing necessarily. You know, you know, what's your budget, what are your needs. Hey, maybe you only need an eight year old computer that's you know, 300 bucks and that's going to work fine for you. So there was, you know, not this kind of solely, you know, living on the, on the bleeding edge. If anything, we were kind of looking back and would almost have to train new staff. Yeah, that's a great stuff. Yeah, it really, yeah, because the Apple stores do a great job of, you know, giving you the, the new stuff and selling you on the idea that you need the new stuff. So we were kind of the, the opposite of that I think for us, you know, and the nice thing about the Mac store obviously is the people that are drawn to that typically are already fans of the product. They're already using it personally typically, and they're, you know, so it's easy enough to get them to kind of naturally stay up to speed with the latest and greatest stuff that's coming out. For me, I think the bigger challenges along the way of doing this in one form or another for almost 25 years now was just the broader markets. Things like the rise of ebay was a huge change back in the 90s when we were doing this and still today can be a useful thing, can be an awful thing. And trying to find how to leverage it in a positive way, whether it was buying stuff from there. We started using it as a supply option in a lot of ways and changed our model a little bit from stocking all of these parts and inventory and stuff that we're devaluing every day. And every time Apple came out with a new product, bam, everything's 10, 20, 30% cheaper than it was yesterday. So kind of that just in time inventory idea. And ebay was a useful tool for that and as well selling stuff, I mean, it's crazy. The junk you can get that's been sitting on your shelf forever, fantastic. You throw it on ebay or something like that. So I think just kind of adapting to that was kind of the bigger.

Nice. So, okay, so let's talk about selling the businesses. What made you decide that it was the right time? I mean, were you planning, was this part of your master plan as you were laying on the beach there in San Diego? Did things just kind of happen naturally for you?

Yeah, it definitely was in the back of my head that it was something I wanted to do and was kind of increasingly so. I think that was born a little bit of just wanting a change of pace, a little bit of kind of being burned out with the limitations of, you know, you can only do so much remotely. And so I felt like I had grown the businesses, you know, to a certain point, but that for them to kind of go to the next level would require somebody who is a little bit more hands on and you know, between being spread thin between the two a little bit, it was, it was definitely, you know, I felt like time to do it. And you know, obviously when you're selling a business, you want, I think ideally to be it on a profitable uptick, you know, rather than in a, in a failure kind of situation. So, you know, you know, you have a little bit ups and downs and stuff. So it really kind of worked to get things up, you know, revenue wise, profitability wise and stuff. So the timing was good. Some of it was born of like the Mac store. My manager said, hey, I'm thinking about moving on. And I thought to myself, do I want to do this yet again? Hiring this new guy, training the new guy, getting them up to speed. And I just felt like this is maybe a good time to look at selling it.

That's an interesting thing though, for someone, I guess, I mean, certainly like me, but like Many of us small business owners, if you're there, it's hard to detach and, and let it go. Even if on paper it makes sense to sell it. You were physically detached from it. But that also, as you said, becomes part of your sales pitch. Like, hey, look how well this is doing. And I'm way over there. If you're right here, you're going to be able to grow this thing. It's not a lie, it's true. You show how this thing can be on its own and now you've got a nice opportunity for somebody there. That's, that's a pretty good.

For sure. Yeah, yeah. Made it very easy. Yeah. For sale wise.

So did you. Kind of leads to my next question about seeking outside buyers or, you know, the process. Did you use a business broker or did you wind up selling the business to that manager, convincing him to stay? How did it all come together?

Yeah, I, you know, I talked to some brokers initially. I am kind of a hopeless do it yourselfer. And so I was like, well, I can probably do what these guys are doing. There's no magic to this. It's just getting the word out, doing the negotiation and stuff. I enjoy that aspect and the creative elements that come into play with that. So I thought, I'll give it a shot on my own and see how it goes. And if I don't have any luck, that's always a backup option. So with the Mac store, I did, you know, discuss with my manager, you know, doing it, buying it. He was interested, but he was a little reluctant as far as the future viability of certain elements. You know, this is one we can talk about change or whatever. And I kind of agree timing wise, you know, the repair business, as you well know, is evolving and brutal. Yeah. So, you know, these things still going to be fixable to the degree that they are in five years or something. And so that for me was a little bit of impetus to maybe get out. For him, that was a big concern. So we kind of went around a bit, but he kind of was just feeling like he wasn't willing to pay remotely what I wanted to get for it. So that kind of fell out. So I just used a website called bizbysell.com which just. It's a flat fee, it's 3, 4, 500 bucks, something like that. And you put up your info. You know, they've got other people that subscribe to the, to the new listings and yeah, both were pretty straightforward. That's awesome deals. Yeah.

Yeah, I like that. Do Yourself, I'm, you know, similar. I like to see if you can figure it out and, yeah, save the 10% too. Yeah, it never hurts, definitely. So does it. I mean, is it weird now that you don't. Do you feel weird not having these businesses? I know after I've sold a couple as well. And it's. I'm always like looking around going, okay, now what? You know, and especially recently where, you know, we. They moved the business to another state and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, what now? I mean, what's next for you?

Yeah, it's definitely, you know, a little surreal. You're like, is my phone on? Is it. I'm not getting texts, I'm not getting called. So, yeah, definitely been an adjustment, but a nice one for me. Probably less jarring because I wasn't doing the, you know, wake up and get into the office at 8am and work till 6 every day. So it's a little bit less.

Of.

A shake up there for me right now. I felt. About a year ago. I sold the Mac store right at the end of last year, so it's still fairly new. I feel like the opportunities in life to kind of just stop and smell the roses a little bit and learn and explore and reflect are kind of few and far between. We're all always doing the next thing and diving in and tackling the projects, which is great, but I feel like that's a rare opportunity and so I want to kind of protect it. And so I've just been taking care of myself, going to the gym, doing some meditation, just reading, learning, and just kind of being open to the next thing. So I've got a few ideas bopping around in my head. I love what you guys are doing as far as helping small businesses and stuff. So I've thought about maybe getting into some consulting and work like that. And then I've got a few, you know, billion dollar ideas where you're like, you know, I'm getting kind of older. Like, this is maybe my last shot. Should I go for it and kind of do the, you know, the moonshot idea? So that's great, but yeah, I think it'll unfold. Yeah.

I commend you for, you know, taking a breath and stopping as a challenge to, you know, you've been involved in stuff.

Let me.

Was there anything that really surprised you during the sale or did things kind of go smoothly and you just kind of knocked it out of the park with no problems?

Yeah, I mean, I've owned and sold and tried to sell both successfully and unsuccessfully, enough businesses to kind of know there's a few traps, the biggest one of which is kind of it ain't done until it's done. So I had, with the felt sale initially, a buyer, and we were negotiating and everything looks good and had all the paperwork drawn up and the lawyer reviewed it and. And I was flying out to sign the deal, and then boom, stops responding to my texts and, like, what's going on? Come to find out she'd bought a whole nother bar. So, you know, But I had known going in, you know, that lesson. And the challenge really is, you know, when you've got one foot out the door, keeping the business going effectively is important, requires some discipline, because you're like, I'm going to be done. And so you're thinking, maybe I won't worry about this or won't worry about that. But then when things kind of things fall apart, then you're scrambling to course correct and get back on track and stuff. So I really.

Yeah, that seems. That seems like a really important lesson to keep, you know, keeping your eye on the ball during the entire process because you just don't know how things are going to work out.

Yeah, it's very easy to think, oh, it's done. I'm just going to kind of let it. Let it coast. And if you're out, it's great, you know, but, man, if it falls apart, then you're.

Oh, Dave and I have both been.

There together, in fact, one time. That's a lesson that you learn and don't forget. So.

Sure.

All right, cool. So let me ask. You know, we always ask everybody this question that comes on the show. You know, I'm a big fan of mistakes as I've made so many of them in, you know, my career and learn so much from them. You know, if there was one mistake that really taught you the most during your, you know, careers owning these small businesses, what do you think that would be?

Oh, one mistake. That's.

I know. You probably haven't made very many.

Dozens. How much time do we have for this show? You guys are going to run out of recording tape or whatever.

That's right.

Yeah. You want to alphabetically. I. Biggest mistake, I would say one huge thing that I think it took me far, kind of embarrassingly long to figure out. You know, as a small business owner, you're always kind of got your eye on the bottom line, Right. You're worried about profits and expenses and all of that stuff. And one of your biggest expenses is Payroll for a lot of businesses. And so I would always kind of play this game of you'd find the guy you want to hire, and then it was come time to salary negotiate and where do you want to be, salary wise? And they would give you a figure, whatever it is, 25 an hour, let's say. And I'd say, well, how about we start you at 23 an hour and we'll see how it goes and kind of work you up to that or something, trying to kind of get people a little bit on the cheap. And on the one hand, you're looking at it and like, boy, if I pay everybody in this building an extra dollar an hour individually, that's not that much, but it's going to add up and it's just going to kill my profitability. And so that was kind of my justification for it controlling costs. But what I really realized was it's so easy for an employee to, you know, cost you an extra $10 an hour or conversely, make you an extra $10 an hour by just their attitude and how well they're doing. And so it's an investment in that employee. It's scary at first to say, you know, yeah, fine, I'll pay you this or I'll pay you more than that. You know, with my last manager and I said, what do you want to make? He said, he gave me a figure that was 50% more than my previous manager had been making. And I didn't bat an eye. I said, you got. Was the best decision that I made because he was. Then he didn't have that, you know, at the back of his head, like, oh, you know, I'm not paid enough. What if, you know, maybe if I was over at this other business, I'd be making more money or I used to make more money here or whatever. So really trying to take that off the table and really take care of people and really be generous with your staff is. Is tough when you're, when you're feeling, you know, pressured financially. But it I firm, you know, yes, some employees will take advantage of that maybe, and you're kind of overpaying them in that situation. But I think on the whole 80% or, you know, or so of your employees, if you've done a good job hiring them and you do a good job, you know, training them and defining your vision and, you know, it's going to come back to you.

Yeah, that's great.

Multiple times.

That makes sense.

Yeah, that's great.

The way they feel definitely impacts their, their attitude and Their performance and all that stuff.

So.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, it's a great man. You know, like I said, I commend you on your success and going through the whole process. Any other tips? You know, I mean, we've got, you know, thousands of small business owners out there listening. Anything else that you would, you know, that you could drop, you know, piece of advice to them that would help them, you know, have the same kind of success that you've had.

I think, you know, we kind of discussed it a little bit earlier. I think, you know, I did an exercise many, many years ago. I literally spent two or three days, days literally tracking in like 15 minute increments how I was spending my day on the phone doing this whatever. And then I went back and I put, is this $10 an hour work? Is this $20 an hour work? Is this thousand dollars an hour work? And very illuminating project. Obviously a little bit of a hassle to spend a couple days doing that and logging everything, but you really get a crystal clear snapshot of what you're doing throughout the day and realizing how much time you're spending on ridiculous work and then realizing maybe you should be hiring somebody to do that. And again, it's, well, maybe I can't afford that or whatever. But realizing that it's the $1,000 an hour work where your business is going to grow, it's going to become more profitable, and if you're freed up to do that, I think it's tremendously helpful. So just doing that exercise, that's a.

Good way to hack your brain, man. You know, you hack your brain and then, and then it's easy, right? Because now it doesn't take discipline. You just, you know, it's the right thing to do. So.

Yeah, right. Yeah. I think the other thing I, you know, I really encourage people to do is whether you do it or not, take on the project of looking at what it would take to be an absentee owner. Pretend almost like you're going to do this. I think it's very helpful. As your business grows, you know, you're creating kind of an owner's manual, in a sense, for your business. It makes you evaluate your systems, you know, whether it's tracking your inventory, your orders, you know, really defining and thinking through your processes and your values as a company and all of that stuff. It's very helpful, I think. You know, like when I was doing the bar restaurant, you know, you could go through the kitchen and, you know, I just had the, the cook just do inventory. We kind of eyeball stuff and just this is what we need. This is what we need. But realizing there's a better way here, we need to create a system. So if this cook quits tomorrow, I can just plug anybody in here and it's much more accurate and that sort of thing. So really looking at your systems in that way, and there's things that you kind of just take care of yourself, but to make your business a little more sophisticated and a little better able to grow and maybe eventually sell, I think that's, that's, you know, a worthwhile project.

Smart.

Yeah, it's kind of like that, you know, there's that, there's that phrase, you should run your business like you're going to try to sell it tomorrow because it forces you to, you know, get things together and look at all that stuff. So, yeah, I think that's great advice. And again, you know, congratulations, thanks so much for coming on the show. If, you know, anybody wants to connect with you, can they find you up on LinkedIn or anything like that or what?

I am not. I'm kind of pathetically not much on online.

We'll just have them go through us. So you can, you know, if you have a question for, you know, Joseph Feedback, Business Show Co. Or you can come talk in the small business support.

Yeah, I'll hop on. I'll hop on the forum. Yeah, so that would be Great.

That's @businessshow co Facebook. And thanks for listening, everybody. We appreciate it.

Thanks so much. Yeah. And thanks so much for coming on, Joe. This is awesome.

My pleasure.

Really, really, really great. Yeah.

Cool.

Folks, we will see you next week. Keep living that.

Charmed.