Resource Update for Small Business Owners – Small Business Show 273

The Small business show, episode 273 for Wednesday, April 22, 2020. Greetings, folks, and welcome to an old school format of the Small Business show here. And as you might guess, here in Durham, New Hampshire, as always, I'm Dave.

Hamilton and here at my house in Lafayette, California, I'm Shannon Jean.

That's how it goes.

I kind of like that start. It's cool. That's how it goes. That's where we're here. I mean, we both work from home and both have a studio office separate from our house, which is. Worked out really well, I think, for both of us during this situation.

Totally.

I'm still going crazy, but yeah.

And our sponsor for this episode is textexpander@textexpander.com podcast. We'll go into some of the details about that in a minute, but I wanted to get that out in the front of the show here too, so you folks can check it out. But as I said to our staff, this is probably a month ago now, maybe even five or six weeks, right? As the first wave of stay at home or shelter at home, depending on what state and locale you're in. As the first wave of those sort of things, we're washing across this country here in the U.S. i, you know, we, we were in a staff meeting and somebody in the meeting very, you know, just sort of casually said, wow, you know, look at all these people freaked out that they have to work at home. Like, we're, we're all, we're all set. Like, because we're a distributed company, you know, we've, we have, we do video meetings every day. It's our normal thing. We're used to the water cooler. You know, it's like we're comfortable. It's all fine, right? We've got our workplaces set up and all, all of that good stuff. And I said, well, that's true. I said, but hang tight and prepare ourselves. And we all need to give ourselves permission for what's going to come in about 10 days when the realization of what this means to us actually hits home. Because for me, it's not weird for me not to leave my property. I leave my house and I come to my office, which is separate. But it's weird for me not to leave my property. It's not weird, you know, for me to not leave for three or four days. Like, you know, I work and go home and if I've got an appointment or something, I'll go. Or if I have to go to the store or, you know, whatever. I'll leave, obviously, you know, but not now. But, but you know, 10 days in a week, week and a half was where for me it started to hit. Like, oh, wait a minute, like I can't go and do like all the things I want to do. I can't have band practice here. That doesn't even require me leaving, you know, and, and I will, I will say that, you know, there were, there have been a few days of. I don't, I don't. I hesitate to use the term depression only because I know that I don't suffer from it like some people do. It's not a chronic thing for me.

But it is depressing.

But it is. Yeah, no, it's, it was. Yeah. I mean, it's probably the right word. I just don't, I don't want to co opt somebody else's problems.

Correct.

You know, but, but like, I've had a few days where I've found my productivity sucks and I'm sort of down.

I've had that problem too.

I've had that problem, you know, and it, I think it's normal. I mean, you know, again, I don't suffer from, usually suffer from recurring anxiety, but right now I think, I mean, certainly me, and my guess is most of us kind of have this low simmer of anxiety of like, I don't know when, you know, the next shoe is going to drop and what that shoe is going to be. And you know, it's like it's all right there. So. Yeah. And we all sort of gave ourselves permission for that at the Mac observer and it backbeat. And it's like, okay, you know, like, and we've all had our days where it's, you know, like, okay, that's right. I need to check out for a little bit here and then, you know, regroup and come back and it's fine.

Yeah, yeah. I think that I'm, I'm right there with you. The productivity has been, you know, in the beginning I was very concerned about the, the virus and this kind of thing and loved ones and, you know, I've got my, my mom is, you know, getting up there and you know, want to be sure we're all safe. I got my daughter out of New York City. Sure, okay, great. We're getting those things done. And, you know, now I find myself leaning to, well, heavily towards, hey, you know, we need to get safely back to work.

Right.

And I really stress safely because I do believe it. You know, I'm not one of those people that are you know, hey, this is all a big, you know, whatever, and we shouldn't have done this. No, I think we needed to do it.

I think so too. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. But now, you know, I'm. As we get close to May and as I talk to more small business owners and my own small businesses that are. Have been dramatically impacted due to this, you know, we need to get back to work because I think if we have a global, you know, recession slash depression, it. More people are going to be impacted in a dramatically negative way. Then probably, you know, went through this. The whole COVID 19 thing.

Oh, it. The ripple effect here is huge. It's. It's been interesting because our business, you know, the whole shelter in place, whatever, stay at home, whatever the orders were like, that all hit mid March, right? Mid to late March. And that's for us, that's when the ramp up, like usually the last week of March is, is crazy busy as we're processing orders and things to start in Q2 because everybody gets their budgets really late. So that last week of March, first week of April is usually gangbusters for us just getting everything going. And I don't need to tell you that it was not gangbusters this year. In fact, it was nothing. It was like zero, but it wasn't zero. There were conversations happening, but no one was diving in and spending money like we would have expected in a normal circumstance. But like, people were, weren't giving up either. And in fact, I would say last week and now this week, we're seeing not, I wouldn't say the same level of activity that I would have presumed at the, you know, at the cusp of April there. But we are definitely seeing a huge uptick from, from where we were there, which was, you know, again, zero.

That's good.

Which is good. And it's, it's interesting seeing that which companies are looking to spend money, which ones are looking to sort of capitalize on where we are here. Some companies are unaffected by this. Some companies are affected, but can make it happen in a positive way. And of course, some are out of the game right now because it just doesn't work for them. But it's been interesting. And as we talk about, you survive and then you thrive. I think we said that on the show about a month ago. And survive works and then thrive is what we're figuring out how to do now, which is, you know, yes, taking, working with these clients that do have opportunities and making sure that works. But also, you know, you can thrive on Customer service and being super flexible and friendly and understanding and you know, all of that through this we've had some clients that needed to move things around and they asked, you know, we're, we know we're outside or inside the 30 day cancellation window, can we still move things? It's like, of course, like these are like, no one would have predicted that we're here, we're all in this boat together. Let's stay together. Let's not, you know, fight each other and you know, invoke some clause in a contract that's going to force them to pay me. Like there's an opportunity to not be short sighted here and I think it's going to pay off. In fact, I think it already is paying off, to be perfectly honest.

So, yeah, yeah, I think so. I think you build, build some really strong loyalty and you know, for those of us that have the resources, I also, as I mentioned a few weeks ago when we talked about this and there's a tremendous amount of opportunities coming our, coming our way. I already started to see them, I've already had some calls this morning and I was just talking to a few people and there's a lot of opportunities but we, you know, you have to again have those resources and my main concern that I have right now is, you know, who's going to come through the other side. What's it going to look like when you drive through your town with the smaller places, you know, your barber shop, you know, the nail salon, the, your deli butcher, all those things that, you know, make up your community. How are those people faring right now? You know, and I would love to hear from you if you're hearing my voice, you know, and you'd like to tell us what's going on. Feedbackusinessshow co I would love to talk with you about it, hear your, you know, your story, share your information, you know, put push it up on LinkedIn and get it out to our network if it would help at all. But I, I, I have some frustration in regards to the businesses that are open and, and I, I'm thankful they're open. I don't want anything to close. But I, I having a hard time distinguishing between one business that is approved to be open and another that that's not.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

And you know, I know a lot of it out there. Like, you know, I went some of the big box retailers and I don't want to single them out because it's great that they're open and I think they should Be. But I, when I went this weekend, I had to buy some stuff and I went to like, you know, Lowe's and, you know, it was packed and yeah, they were doing great. They were mitigating it, which. Which is how I think we should reopen.

Yeah, we've got it. We've got to figure it out. Right? Yeah. We're not going to go back to a scenario. Like, it's not going to be a flip of a switch and it's like, okay to normal. No, we've got.

Shouldn't be.

We've got a baby step our way.

Yep, that's right. Yeah. So. And people had. Out in California, people are wearing masks. And for the most part, I'd say 90% of the people had them on. They have, you know, cleaning things right where carts are and hand sanitizer and they're letting certain amount of people in. But I can't figure out, you know, we. It was crowded. So I'm not sure the difference between a company like that in a small business that. That's been told, you know, you have to close. And it's just devastating. And I'm struggling with that. And so I figure the most productive thing I can do is just talk and comment and promote the concept of we need to get open safely but soon as well, you know, as soon as we possibly can. We need to get these small businesses back open.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well. And it's so hard to know. We will either know that we did it too soon or too late. We will. There's no way to know that we did it at exactly the right time. Right.

The virus or for the economy.

For the economy. Right. I mean, like, there's. Well, and from the virus standpoint, like, if we open too soon, we will know, like, there will be a, you know, there will be a recurrence and it will surge much more quickly than we are ready for. And then we've got to go back on lockdown. Right. Like, that will be the indicator that we did it too soon. But if we don't see that, then we either did it exactly at the right point or too late. And there will be no way to answer that question.

There will be no way. I agree.

And so we have to be careful not to try and answer that question because hindsight is valuable from a lesson standpoint. Like, we waited that long and it worked. Let's not forget that in the future.

And then.

And then that's.

Celebrate that. Yeah.

Celebrate that. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

And. And I don't Want to criticize, like, you know, I don't agree with the vast majority of the politics and politicians in California, but I absolutely commend with the way they have handled this. And the governor shut everything down very early.

Yeah.

Which I believe is one of the reasons. Yeah. Out of, you know, 40 some OD people, there's been less than a thousand deaths. And I believe we're, we are a net positive, meaning less people have died in this five week lockdown that would have otherwise died had we not locked down.

Oh, I think that, I think that's a fair, fair thing to say. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So that being said, you know, easing back on some of these things, letting people out, letting people in more into the community, I think is the, is the right thing to do with, you know, keep your distance, wear a mask, you know, wear gloves if you, if, if that works, whatever it is, clean, you know, this kind of stuff. But we need, people want to see that happening even in just, even just small steps. They were going to open this back up, these type of things. This is how we're going to do it. I think that will go a long way to easing some of that anxiety that you mentioned, especially in the small business community. You know, and I mean, I, we can talk, I know we're going to talk about some of these low, you know, safety net programs that are supposed to be helping out, you know, small businesses.

Yeah, we have some, we have some experience on the other side of that now. So we can, we can talk about that. In fact, I would like to. We also have a, a tech support question from one of our former guests or a prior guest. I don't want to say former guest. He's certainly welcome to come back from David, that about remote access to your business's resources while we're all at home. So we have that to go through as well. The next thing that I want to do though is I want to talk about our first sponsor, which is textexpander. Right. Because we're all talking about productivity these days. In fact, we've been talking about it for half this episode. And this is what textexpander can help you with. Let us put it this way. If you type something more than three times, you can save time by making it a snippet and letting textexpander type it for you. That's what you need to, that's how you need to think about this. You know, textexpander is one of those things that can help you in so many different ways. It's Hard to sit here and describe. I always give specific examples because I find that that's really a great way. Even though you might not use all of them, it lets you see how I use them. But as a general rule, if you're finding yourself typing something a third time, pause, make it a snippet, let textexpander type it for you. And then the next time, you don't have to do anything other than click a button or type a short little thing, and textexpander expands it, hence its name, textexpander, to type it for you. And so you can do these with all kinds of things. Addresses, customer service responses. I do it with my email addresses and phone numbers so I can fill out web forms super quick without having to think about it. And what's really cool is you can make snippets on one computer and use it on all of your devices so that you're more productive everywhere. And yes, you can share with your teams, too. So you gotta check this out. And you get 20% off your first year just for being a listener of this show. Go to textexpander.com podcast to learn more. Get TexTexpander for your Macs, your Windows machines, Chromes, iPhone, iPads. Again, 20% off your first year@textexpander.com podcast. And our thanks to textexpander@textexpander.com Podcast for sponsoring this episode. So let's talk about these loans here, Shannon, shall we? We. We talked in the last episode about applying for. Whether or not we should apply. So we did eventually. And I say eventually because when they. When they first came out. And what. Let's talk first about the paycheck protection program.

Okay, let's preface it. Yeah, and let's preface it. Both Dave and I own multiple small businesses, Right. That are kind of the target, you know, I would think, for a lot of these programs.

Oh, yeah. I had five businesses, including ours, that I. That I submitted for. And. But the. At first, when they opened up the paycheck protection program, the idea of which I'm. I don't want to assume anything, the way that that's supposed to work is you apply for a loan of 2.5 times your average monthly payroll, and then as long as you use it for your payroll, the first eight weeks of payroll that you use it for are forgiven, and you don't have to pay back that loan. That in a nutshell, there's some asterisks that go through there that give you some flexibility.

But yeah, a few other Expenses you can cover, right?

Yeah, but that's the gist of this. And I kept thinking of it as essentially pre unemployment. If the government is going to pay unemployment on people that small businesses have to lay off, let's not lay them off, let's keep them working. Let's keep things moving forward. And so that's kind of how I thought about this in my head. At first you had the only types of applications that could be accepted were if you had true employees on your payroll and you filled out, you know, IRS 940 and 941 forms. So we do not have that here at our business that. That under which small Business show operates. Right. I do have that with two of my other businesses. So. And those two businesses happen to be with bank of America.

That's.

That's. But which is fine. And at first you had to have a lending relationship in place as well as a banking relationship that was relaxed eventually. So I really only had one business that I could apply with on day one. And I did that, applied with bank of America. We already have a lending relationship. We already have a banking relationship. I got everything in. They then came back and asked me for the next two days to fill out the same forms again and again because they kept revising how they needed to have them in house. But they were very nice about it. They called me, in fact. In fact, it was an investment banker that called me from New Jersey from his basement. And he was like, look, you got to go. You got to bear with me here. I've never done a bank loan in my life. He's like, but they've refocused us.

That might be helpful. That might be helpful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but he was great.

Might be the guy.

Yeah, he was good. And he gave me his cell phone number to call him back if I had any questions. I mean, it was, you know, from a customer service standpoint, it. That interaction. And in fact, most of them were fine. So we finally got all the paperwork in and then we were able to apply with the other business with that didn't have a lending relationship. So we got that paperwork in and then we were able to apply for businesses that don't do payroll. They opened it up.

That was on the April 10, right?

April 10.

Self employed or contractor type.

That's right. And that's us because we pay ourselves a distribution. We're an llc, so we don't. We're not on payroll. And so we had to wait until then and we filled it out. Now we use currently Citizens Bank Here, which is a smaller bank than bank of America. I got our. Your loan has been completed, but there isn't any money left for you. Note for Citizens bank from Citizens bank for this business three days before I got the note from bank of America for the first business that I applied for that also said the same thing. There's not your loan is your application's complete, you're good to go, but we don't have any money for you. So the smaller banks definitely, at least in our, you know, we realize the plural of anecdote is not data. Experience is that the smaller bank was able to get things done faster than the bigger bank.

That's cool.

Yeah. But it didn't help. Yeah, like we still haven't got any window.

Yeah. So, you know, we're recording this on, on, you know, Tuesday the 21st. We're going to, you know, push out on the 22nd, but, and I'm hoping by the end of today they approve, you know, additional funding for, and that you'll be in the queue for the, for the ppp.

Well, that's it. We should be in the queue for that now. That's correct.

That's right. That's right. That's the whole, the other. Yeah. And the other thing. And it doesn't surprise me that the smaller community banks would be the one to go. And there's some, you know, I've been reading a lot about some of the larger banks kind of cherry picking the loans that they did because, you know, and as a, maybe as a, that's why I mentioned that not having a lone person help you might have been better because a lone person is, is compensated by the, their book of business and the number and the dollar amount of those loans. And as human nature, do I focus on the, you know, the million dollar loan or the $10,000 loan or the $50,000 loan. Well, I can tell you where they're going to focus. So I think some of us smaller businesses got lost in the shuffle. The other resource I would point out.

I want to, I want to come back. Go ahead and point out your other resource. But I do want to come back to that because I'm not convinced the bigger banks did that. Cherry picking.

It's anecdotal and it's only.

Yeah, go ahead.

I think it's, I think it's anecdotal and I've just been, you know, comment.

We're here. So I've already derailed. Yeah, I'll explain it. I, I think, you know, somebody looked at all the data and said, hey, you know, all the, the big loans. Well, they didn't say all the big loans. They said the majority of the $150,000 and, and smaller loans happened at the end of the process, not at the beginning. Therefore, the banks cherry picked the big ones. And I would say that may be true, but correlation is not causation. Yeah. Because we know that we had to wait a week for the sole proprietors and self employed.

True.

Right.

And those are smaller and those are.

Going to be the smaller ones. So until I have more evidence, that's not enough to convict, in my opinion.

Yeah, no, no, no, I agree, I totally agree. And it's just, just a talking point.

Yeah, it is.

You know, I'm always, I'm always ranting against, you know, huge companies and, and banks and that kind of thing. So that's why I try to only.

Be positive on social media. So this is my, this is my thing. It's like if I don't have something nice to say, I usually don't say it. So I, you know. Yeah, yeah, but you know, you like.

To point out, point out things like that. So, but, but the other resource that I would, I would, you know, highly recommend you look at is, you know, direct or alternative banking lenders type thing like PayPal or cabbage. And I got, I do a lot of business with PayPal. I've done millions and millions of dollars worth of business with them over the years. So they reached out to me and once that contractor thing opened up at April 10, and they were like, hey, you know, we want to get you into the queue, this kind of thing. So they, they were great and like a technology company, which is what I would consider PayPal, really not a bank. The process was awesome. You know, everything online, you know, quick back and forth. This document upload here, do this, do that, check boxes, you're missing this, you need that. It was, it was phenomenal. And I got the same thing. Hey, the, the program is, is out of money, but get your stuff in so you can be in the queue in case it gets, you know, funded again.

Yeah.

And then I also spoke to some of my other business peers that had some very good success through Cabbage. Now they're a lender. I don't do business with them. I think their, their lending rates are, how should we say, very high. There you go. Yeah, high usury or I'm sorry, a loan shark business. But if you need them. But maybe you've had, you know, again, let me know. Maybe you've had Great experience.

I've heard of people that have had really good experience through cabbage.

That's great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

And, and even PayPal, you know, their, their, their loans that they make are, you know, if you think about it, that they're a bit expensive, but it's a great way to do it if you need the cash. And so I, anyway, I would, don't forget those if you're doing the, for the paycheck protection program and let us know how it went for you. We would love to. You know, I, I don't want to rely just on anecdotal evidence and I'm, you know, I'm not a fan of government, but I am a fan of how quickly they moved and how they did things differently this time to try to do things, you know, like your, to your, your comment pre unemployment. I think it's a great way to this and even funding the unemployment throughout the country where, you know, sole proprietors, contractors, gig workers can apply and get an unemployment, you know, payment. I think the systems are all overwhelmed and I don't know anybody that's got money out of that yet. But you know, I know my daughter had to go through the New York thing which took her almost 10 days to get to get it filed. And so, you know, I'd love to hear some feedback again. Feedbackusinessshow.co share your story. Let us know you know how it worked for you. But I also want to mention what about that Eidl, you remember that the economic injury disaster loan?

Yeah, of course.

That was one of the first things that was released and there was this magic tent, ten thousand dollars which then changed to up to ten thousand dollar grant that you were going to get. And even when I applied it said you'll get that money within three days.

Three business days. That's right. I've not seen that money and I know you haven't either. That's right.

Not only have I not seen the money, I haven't. I mean we got one email. Was that an email from them or was that. Yeah, that was from the sba.

It was from the sba.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was about two weeks after slide where that email came in to say, you know, you're we've got your stuff, wrote this kind of thing and I again, I don't want to be pretend I'm a hindsight genius and I, the SBA people are just awesome and but this isn't what they do. Never. Correct. They've never loaned money you know, they're a guarantor. And having gotten an SBA loan before and. And all that kind of stuff, it typically goes through a bank and the sd.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, again, I would love if you had a different experience with the Eidl tell us so we can share it with everybody and give them some insight feedback@businessshow co or come or go to businessshow co. Facebook, and you can share it up in the support group that we have up on Facebook.

I did have one friend who runs a very small business, two employees in, I think in Georgia, and he got the paycheck protection program loan, and he worked with his very small bank. He said they worked round the clock on the weekend, and they got him in, so. So there.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah. It's nice to actually talk to someone that I know that is like, oh, yeah, I have the money. Not I'm tell. I'm told I'm getting the money, you know, but I already have it. We're spending it the way we're supposed to. It's like, okay, good. We just need way more funding for the program, so that's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. And, you know, this. They literally passed this thing three weeks ago.

Right.

Whatever. I mean, getting the money out is. Is the hard part. Getting it passed in a week was, you know, a miracle. But then, you know, getting it out there is very tough. And it's tough, you know, keeping it. Keeping it funded.

So I have to.

I have to give props to the people that are trying. I have a. A totally different set of beliefs about the people that are holding things up to get things refunded. But since we don't talk, this is not a political show. Well, we would be.

We would be bashing both sides of the aisle is what we would be doing.

Of course. Of course. They all do it. They all do it.

It's all the same.

And it is. Yes, yes. So.

All right. So I wanted to.

Yeah, so it's great.

Yeah. I wanted to get this tech support thing in before we. Because I promised we would. Sounds good. Yeah. David Dawson, who is from the Instant Print Shop, is working from home, as are all of his employees. And he said with the most recent interview we did with Brian Gill, we were talking about firewalls. He says it got me to thinking, and I wondered if you might be able to help. He says, we have a Synology disk station that we store all our client files on. And with my staff working at home, I set up remote access on it by adding a direct access, poked a hole in the firewall, poked a hole in the router and have it so that people on the outside world can access the disk station. Is there a better way to do this? And the answer is absolutely. Because right now the way he has set it up means anybody in the world can attempt to log into that thing. And not the best idea. Now, synology stuff is great, we use it here it is like if you're going to run a server for your business local in your office, that's where I would start. Because they really have got it going really, really well. However, the security is only as good as you make it. And when you poke that hole and forward ports from the outside world in which is the easiest thing to do, it makes it easy not just for you, but for everyone. I always say security is not a binary thing. You can have ultimate security or ultimate convenience, but most of us choose a spot along that continuum between the two to live on, right? And so what he has chosen is far closer to ultimate convenience than ultimate security. But there is a better way. And the better way is a vpn, because that same Synology disk station can allow you to have an inbound VPN. Now, back when like ExpressVPN was a sponsor here, that's an outbound VPN that's pretty protecting your traffic on the way out. The same concept applies though, whereas on that you set a tunnel that gets from your wherever you are, coffee shop or whatever out to ExpressVPN servers without anybody being able to see you're tunneling to their servers. Well, you can tunnel into your office by setting up your own VPN server on the disk station. And I can put a link in the show notes about how to set this up. It's fairly straightforward. And the cool part is now you don't have to poke a hole in your router to open up file sharing for the world. You just poke a hole in your router to get to the VPN server, which is a very secure thing. And once someone has tunneled into the VPN server and authenticated properly at that point, it's like they're on the local network. So any resources, including if there's a printer there or if there's four computers that are sharing files, including the disk station, you can see them all because it's like you're there. The VPN lets you tunnel into the office digitally safely. Social distancing, but still getting access to all the computing resources there. So setting up that vpn, it's really straightforward, especially if you've got a Synology disk station. But your router might have this too. So I highly recommend looking into that as your option. It'll take you a little bit longer to set up than just poking a hole in the firewall and walking away, but give yourself 30 minutes to an hour, you can get this set up and then everything is way safer. So that's my advice. That's my answer. Hope that helps. David, we did talk way more in depth about this on my macgeek Gab podcast this week. So if you want to learn more, you can certainly go and listen to us talk through that.

How do they find that?

Macgeek Gab macgeekgab.com and I'll put a link in our show notes here too. Yeah, cool.

That sounds good.

All right, well, that's, that's where we leave it for today, I think, folks. It's good show, good information.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of info. We really would love to, you know, hear from you and, and hear your information or what, how have these programs helped you or if you've had the same frustrations that we have, but you know, how, how things going out there. Share your story feedback at Business Show.

Please do and hear from you. Check out Business show co guides because that's where you're going to be able to get your copy of our book about our favorite mistakes that we've all learned from. So definitely want to check that out. The reviews have been coming in. People are loving this book. In fact, it's, it's, it's being received even better than I thought it would. Shannon. I'm really kind of stoked.

Yeah, it's doing, it's doing great. We just got the, the paperback version. I just got the author copies last week. They look great and you can, you know, pick one up. We're going to be featuring some stuff up on, you know, Facebook and on our LinkedIn networks up there. We appreciate your support. It's one great way to support Small Business show and we really appreciate it. Another great way is to leave us a five star review up on the podcast directory that you are listening to. You would not provide believe how much, how important and how much it helps and how it raises our rankings when those reviews come in. So those of you that have left reviews, and we've had a lot of great ones recently, we really appreciate it. If you haven't, during your shutdown while you're at home, do a little take, you know, 20, 30 seconds and leave.

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